wayward wife, plan B - Marriage Builders® Forums

I was posting in the just found out section, if interested in the details of this sitch, see wayward wife/Rookie.

Today, including yesterday is day 2 of plan B.

I sent her a letter detailing how I felt and what must be done to reconcile our marriage.

As stated in the just found out section she came over this morning to drop the son off for school, she wanted to talk, I closed the bathroom door and turned up the radio, knowing she would get the plan b letter on her e-mail at work. Today I have recieved 8 e-mails from her, all in the negative sense, saying she doesnt know how to get the passion back in our marriage and to feel comfortable in our home, bascialy I informed her she could not feel passion so long as the OP was still in the picture and she was still feeling passion for him. I would not elaborate on much, only saying that if we were to attempt to reconcile, counseling was a must and honesty a absolute.

I have recieved 3 other phone calls from her, I would not answer the phone. I sent her another e-mail stating that since she refused any couseling there was no reason to talk, she stated that it would be difficult to reconcile if the only forms of communications were by e-mail. So, I sent her one back stating if she had any ideas on how to reconcile without couseling to let me know as I have never heard of a marriage working out after a A, without it.

She did call and stated that she wanted a divorce, I asked her if she was sure, to which she stated she was, I then stated I guess we dont have anything to talk about then, and hung up.

Ten minutes later she calls back, says she wants to go to therapy, not to reconcile the marriage, but to learn to get over the anger of the sitch.
I informed her that I would go, but under the condition that it was directed towards reconciliation.

She informs me that it's over and if I want to go to reconcile that was not going to happen.

She is making a appointment for us.

I really feel the fog recieved a major kick in the butt,,,, she is very used to being in control
and this was a shake up.

She DID finally admit on the phone when I was talking to her that the A did have a major impact on the marriage, as well as my response to it, this is a first.

Does anyone know of a good marriage coach in northern Illinois. I reaaly dont want to roll the dice of going to a therapist not familiar with the practice of trying to save a marriage, but one that actively pursues the restoration of a marriage.

Why not Harley's ?. They are probably in the premium price range but it is worthed. Beside both of you don't need to be in the same room to do conseling. -rh-

I really dont think she would take a sounseling session over the phone serious, I'm not being sarcastic in the least,,

She just called again, said if I wanted to go to a pro marriage counselor to make the appointment, but I should not have any great expectations of saving the marriage, this is a switch from the anger therapy.

I myself for some unknown reason am a bit reluctant to do a counseling session on the phone.

I really dont think she would take a sounseling session over the phone serious,
She probably (at this point) won't take ANY counseling seriously.

I myself for some unknown reason am a bit reluctant to do a counseling session on the phone
Why?

MB counseling is not all "touchy-feely" and finding your "inner-self."

It's not long discussions about your past. It's abouyt learning "good" behaviors which are beneficial to relationships and identifying and stopping "bad" behaviors.

It's about learning and applying positive changes in yourself to save your marriage. It's all about making a plan that you can put into action.

[ July 14, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]

It really sounds like she is starting to come around.

Have you notice the very slight change in attitude. First she is absolutely against any counseling, then she will go if it is for anger management, then she will go for pro-marriage if you set up the appt.! I think you may be winning, inch by inch.

r0uter

rookie,

I would not any hope ... take her word as face value ... look at her action. She tries to negotiate w/ you. My ExW went to talk to SH 3 sessions before she AWOL. I suggest you stick with your plan B and get conseling. You could talk to her but not fillin any ENs except financial obligations. In this case you are doing "tough love" ... it is fine, many MBer does "modified plan B".

-rh-

Router, she will go only to marriage counseling to manage the anger, she told me that if I had any epectations of restoring the marriage to forget it, but you have seen the e-mails, how can you reconcile if the only communication is what she asked.

Talk about sending out mixed messages, if I took every word she said seriously, I'd be climbing walls right now.

If she is having anger problems, shouldn't she go to individual counseling? Although, if you can be in these sessions, it could be beneficial. I always wonder how honest my wife is with her individual counselor. I know that there are things that she doesn't tell her. And any counseling is better then none.

r0uter

[ July 15, 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]

Rookie, I would NOT waste my time with her promises to go to counseling because she has NOT met the two deal breakers:

1. End all contact with the OM forever.

2. WILLINGLY commit to a marital recovery plan with a pro-marriage oriented professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri).

What she has offered you is nothing more than lip service or window dressing to avoid losing control over you and continue her cate walking.

If she wants anger management therapy, that's fine BUT she should not expect you to go with her. Her anger, unlike marital recovery, is something that she has to address by herself for herself.

Stay the course.

No I dont put much stock into what she says.

Yes, I do know she is still in contact with the OP and you are very much correct TMCM when she is giving lip service to maintain control over me.

Several times yesterday she mentioned divorce, that would always ring my bell and she knows that, yesterday I would simply tell her if she wanted to talk divorce, do what you want, that is when she started calling back and say she would go to couseling.

So far today, no calls or e-mails, she told our son that she is not going to talk to me as she agrees that our conversations cause too much pain.

The therapy for anger is for me, as she puts it, I have not been the same person the last couple of months, that is a news flash to me, I've asked her before how a husband is supposed to deal with his wife's A.

Even now she still says the OP has nothing to do what-so-ever with the problems in our marriage. She does not even acknowlege the A or the OP at all.

Rookie you did excellent in calling her bluff when she used her trump card of the divorce threat by telling her to do what she wants. She's probably going to try using it again and it's important that you once again repeat your words, so that eventually she'll realize that it is a useless threat. Better yet, don't even respond to her and strictly observe the only conditions to talk to her which are either to discuss to important child care issues or if she finally expresses a desire to rebuild the marriage by willingly follow a marital recovery plan with counseling from a pro-marriage professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri) as well as following the four rules for a succesful marriage (see link bellow my sig).

The OM may not have something to do with your marriage problems prior to the A, but he certainly IS a the biggest obstacle on the road to recovery and her reluctance to remove it, shows how much she is unwilling to resolve those marriage problems.

Blew it big time, I had the password for her voice mail at work, called it, there was a message from the OP indicating a PA, called her up, told her file for the divorce, Cant live with a lying Bi*** anymore.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Blew it big time, I had the password for her voice mail at work, called it, there was a message from the OP indicating a PA, called her up, told her file for the divorce, Cant live with a lying Bi*** anymore.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, you did a cardinal sin of snooping !!!!!. You should not react on it w/ LB. You should plan it out & vent in here. Anyway ... I would take the strickest NC !. Remember as long as she is addicted to OM, she is not herself !.

-rh-

The danger of snooping is that unless you can handle the truth it's best not to engage in it.

I agree with redhat and suggest that you go to no contact ASAP.

I am to the point where I am emotionally and physically exhausted by all of this.

I am going to do my best to avoid her, at all costs, I cant take this anymore.

After I called her earlier about her voice mail, I was at a friends house, she called at least 8-9 times, not apologetic in the least, and not that I expected her to be, but I kept hanging up on her saying we have noting to talk about. She kept saying she wanted to divorce one minute and the next that if I wanted to work things out I shouldnt be checking on her that I violated her.

My friends thought she was out of her mind, I'd hang up and the phone would immdietley ring again.

She was waiting for me at the house when I got home, same stuff, I want a divorce let's sell the house routine. I told her we will put the house on the market, but I was not going to agree to a divorce untill there was some counseling, the was met like I just slapped her in the face. I know counseling is going to do no good when the is no effort on her part at all to end her relationship. I told her after about a hour of this to go home.

She still claims the OP has nothing at all to do with the current problems. I agreed with her, said I am responcible for 50 percent of the problems prior to her affair, she is 100 percent responcible for the A, she says there is NO A, I cant take the damn lies anymore.

Any shred of honesty on her part would be more than welcome, but that is not going to happen.

15 years of marriage and she acts as if she is leaving to go to the store, no thought at all about the damage her and the OP have done, destroyed 2 marriages and throw the lives of 6 people into the air without any thought or concern at all.

It is way beyond being selfish and self centered it is outright cruel.

I read here about people who have had affairs and they are trying to work it out, even if the person who was betrayed is apprehensive, God I wish I had that opportunity.

I'm sorry to go on about this, but right now my emotions are running on empty and I need to vent.

Rookie, it sounds like she's panicking at the thought of you not talking to her that she picks fights with you because she knows that doing so will push your buttons and get you to open your mouth. It's a typical response of many a cake walking WS (especially a WW) to hit the roof when the BS goes to Plan B with no contact. Don't let yourself get sucked in by her taunts.

TMCM, I think you are right, when I sent the plan b letter it was the same thing, 8 e-mails and bunch of phone calls.

Today she was at it on the phone after I exposed what I knew.

Problem is why does she keep asking for the divorce then if she is that panicked and absolutley refuses any counseling.

Like I said before, it is just outright cruel, if those are her intentions, just do it. But, she claims she doesnt want me to hate her and we should part as friends.

She has always been a controlling type, but this is way beyond simple manipulation of ones emotions to gain control.

If she cant even acknowledge the affair, I really have no hope at all of her ever trying to repair the damage that has been done.

I have explained till I cant say it anymore, the first step is complete honesty. She is in such a fog right now, I will not talk to her at all. I have to take care of myself and protect what emotions I have left.

But, still in the end, I do love this woman, not the current liar I am presented with at the moment, but the one I've loved for the past 15 years, but that love is being chipped awasy a piece at a time.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Problem is why does she keep asking for the divorce then if she is that panicked and absolutley refuses any counseling.<hr /></blockquote>Because she knows you want to save the marriage and she figures that by threatening you with divorce she's got you by the cojones. It's a control tactic, trust me.

The acid test about whether she truly wants a divorce or not will be forthcoming. For the time being sit tight and if she tries to get in touch with you to push your buttons, hang up or just walk away and leave her talking by herself. Eventually she'll get the message that she can no longer push your buttons and that the only time you will talk to her will be regarding important child care issues or when she gets serious about rebuilding the marriage.

Rookie,

I didn't get a chance to read this thread before I replied to your last e-mail! So, a lot of things were not included. Wow! she is really testing you. Of course I agree completely with TMCM, every time she plays that card she expects a certain reaction, and when you don't give it she gets confused and panicks. It's not really funny, because she must be in a terrible frame of mind, but I can't help giggling a little bit at her expense.
This has helped me too, because my W is pulling similar cards. However, lately our conversations have been surprisingly civil. Not sure if that is sympathy because of my mother or what, but I'll take what I can get. I have not LB'ed in about a week and I know that is helping. Also, I have had limited success in getting some of her true feelings out. I tried to explain to her that until she can talk about how she truly feels, those negative feelings will fester and continue to build a wall around her heart. But, as soon as they can be exposed, they shrivel in the light of day and die.

Continuing NC is your best course of action for sure. (Don't you hate it when you LB and feel like you have just taken two steps back?) Be sure to keep an even tone and, (As I learned from the Mickey Mouse Club years ago!) "A wise man thinks twice before he speaks once."

r0uter

Well, she did call my bluff and I called it back, I called a realto this morning and am going to list the house for sale.

She is signing a lease for a apartment on Sat., and there is no way I am going to stay in this house by myself and make payments on it, I'm not going to make myself mortgage poor.

Reality is here folks, lets see how she handles it now. It was her idea to sell the house last night, all along she kept asking me to refinance and keep it, just another hook to keep her options open that will be taken away.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Reality is here folks, lets see how she handles it now. It was her idea to sell the house last night, all along she kept asking me to refinance and keep it, just another hook to keep her options open that will be taken away.<hr /></blockquote>WS in this stage is very confused. It is an addiction to A ... say anything, do anything under the sun to prolong it. If selling the house means that she could get more money for her & OM to prolong this A .... nothing sacred.

My ExW filed b/c she wants more money. Get ready ... either she will shaken up or she will go through with it. Again I suggest you to have the strickest NC ... to avoid LB and to protect whatever love/feeling left for your WW.

Where is the kid ? who has him (sleeping at night) and who bring him to activities ?.

I really advice you to do "Dv financing Plan". You have to increase you basic need ... housing/transportation/food ... You have to decrease your income. I made mistake and for more than a year I financed their A under the court order !. ExW is not working & OM is broke ! now who pay for them to go around ?. I finally managed to get "laid off" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> , I was the happiest worker on that day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Now reality of money hit them after my severance $ runs out and their A starts showing cracks. It is not a revenge or trying to get her back, I am protecting my financial future & I am done with her. I am sitting back, eating chip & hot salsa and watching their "TeleNovellas". Latest episode, OM had a bruise on his ribs, OMExW is getting stronger and plan NC with OM, ExW & OM have to finish up Cisco Classes that they took over a year ago. Next episode is about ExW is getting a job, stress/abuse due to financial melt down, and listening to my 2 D vents about their stay with ExW (I am pretty sure ExW has some bruises ... one of their past episode, ExW had buise/black eye and OM had teeth mark <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

-rh-

Isnt love grand, bruise ribs, teeth marks, and we are the ones they left.

My financial position is I'm retired, could do it at 50 and did, recieve a monthly pension, plus a minor military disability. She cant get into my pension or I can get into hers.

Pretty sure her and the OP plan to get a apartment together, in this state though you can get a order forbidding a unmarried member of other sex from spending the night while the child is in the household, I informed her of this and my intention of obtainind said order,,, OOOOPSSS, she did not like this and informed me she would do the same for me,,, well OK, I dont have anyone,, so what is the issue.

Far as the son goes, I have him on Tues,and he stays till wed night as she has class, every day cept Sat and Sun I have him 7A-6P, she is currently staying at her parents home and they are very good with him, he is ten.

I cant wait till she is on her own, has to clean, laundry, cook and be a mother, seems like her free time is going to diminish quite a bit, but if she follows the pattern she has of late, the son will get alot of quality time with the TV.,

He is aware of who the OP is, another thing I cant wait to see when she tries to introduce him.
Little man can be quite a handful if he does not approve of what you are doing. Right now he thinks that there is no one in her life, even after hearing the arguements with his name and me explaining who that was, as he asked. She will have some splaining to do, and I dont think he will except any.

I've told my family finally today of what is foing on.

Right now she has a hammer on me cause I did retire under her medical plan, soon as I find a job with medical, all HER family is going to know.
Some how she seems embarassed by the fact that she is having a A and doesnt want anyone else to know in her family, isnt sneaking cheating and lying something to be proud of, not to say a major lack of morals and character.

A never make sense ... except selfishness at its purest manifestation.

In CA I can't get that ... unless I could show OM is dangerous to my 2 D. They would not even look into "possesion of drugs" & DUI records of him since it is 14 years ago.

You should expose A before, A should be grilled under the sun.

Just remember what ever "temporary order" which based on the curent setting, you would have to fight it to change !.

I would buy a house from the proceed and minimize your "disposable income". Change your truck to the lastest model ...

-rh-

redhat, plan on purchasing a townhome, have a car payment and the Harley in the garage to pay for.

She will not get any alimony as she is paid more than I.

She just picked up the son, pulled into the drive and called on the phone for him to come out. She must be feeding her therapist a real hostile picture of me,,, wonder if she mentioned the A there yet, I doubt it.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
She will not get any alimony as she is paid more than I.<hr /></blockquote>It is not how much you make but how much disposable income is available ... at least in most of states.

Harley ... I might get Indian instead, supporting local manufacturing company. Once my financial setllement is reached, I am lurking for H-2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

-rh-

Sorry to post so often, but I use this as a venting and journal.

Anyhow the realestate agent came over tonight, just for a appraisal, the wife did not come, so bout five minutes ago, she calls and wants to know what the home was valued at, I told when the agent comes Monday to sign the papers to list the home we will know, goodnight and hung up.

When she came to pick up the son, she called from the driveway for him to come out, I thought she left and went outside she was still in the car, she does not look like the happey camper I thought she would.

I havent been rude, just very to the point and end the conversation immediatley.

I'm not hopeful in the least at this point, she has spun tales about me to her parents, therapist and whoever will listen,, all absolutley untrue and never mentioning her A, and everyone is telling her to keep her distance from me.

I have told her parents before about who the OP is, and I'm sure she is giving the same lip service that he is only a friend he works with. Going to be interesting if they start living to gether or dating and she has to explain the sitch to the parents, son and everyone else she denied things to. Think that will put a little pressure on her love interest.

Seems the

There's no need for you to apologize for posting often. It's better that you vent here to us than to your W.

It doesn't matter what she tells her family and close friends because you've already exposed her A wide open to them and now they will have their eyes wide open to verify your story. You have indeed thrown a monkey wrench into the machinery of her A.

TMCM, she is definetley in some pain, saw her today when she picked up the son,, looks like someone kicked her butt. When she called, she was not her usual indignant self, very sheepish.

I think there are some second thoughts going on there, but her pride will not let her say it.

Very stubborn, once she makes up her mind, even if she is wrong, she does things just to proove her point.

Keep in mind the old saying 'Pride goeth before a fall' for it is very true.

rookie,

IMVHO. You should not have any contact !. Why ?, you would look and sound mean to your WW !. You look more to hurt her than "loving" ... Let your plan B letter works.

-rh-

Redhat, no contact right now is impossible.

I have to see her Monday night to sign the paperwork to have the house put on the market, soooo, I'll be having a very pleasant evening on Monday.

Also, as long as the house is under our names, hers and mine, in this state I cannot deny her access, as the other night when she was waiting for me.

But, I do think it got through her thick skull I wont talk to her, as like last night when she came to pick up the son and wouldnt get out of her car and called on the cell for him to come out.

She did call last night in regards to the appraisel, I simply told her it would me here monday and hung up, ten minutes later she calls, asks that I quit talking about her A with the son, informed her I will, when he stops asking quetions about it, informed her she was the one that put herself in that position, not I, and hung up again.

So far this seems like it is following a B movie script, everything is right on as I have read of others situation.

I am not rude to her, just to the point, will answer the questions that need to be answered and hang up, with a good bye, of coarse, and not give her the time to reply, or ignite a arguement.

As said earlier, her voice now is very sheepish and from what I' saw of her yesterday, she is looking haggard, emotionally., not the defiant, in control position she had last week.

I did inform my mother(after 7 mos of this crap) of the affair, and did invite mom for dinner tonight, should be interesting to see how she reacts to her, they were not close, but the W did respect her and the respect was returned. Now that mom knows, if W tries to initiate a conversation I know mom, hard headed ole pollack who will speak her mind. See how the little darlin handles that one.

Also, call from another friend at work, at least where I used to work, and the wife is still there, EVERYONE knows about her a, her name is Bettina, she has a new nickname sluttina, hurts like hell to hear people say that about your W, but if the shoe fits??????

Been keeping busy, out at friends when she called the other night, had friends(mutual with W, which kills her) over for a BBque another, mom tonight, jus tletting her know, moving on down the road.

Redhat, saw the Indian bike, beuuuutiful,,, went on the ride to DC on memorial day weekend, almost 2 thousand miles on the bike in 4 days, talk about clearing the head out, but it did convince me,,,next bike is gonna be a bagger, radio and all the goodies, have a dyna wide glide, nice ride for about 4-5 hundred miles, but there are only a limitied number of positions you can get on the bike, and when the body is older,,, it tends to cramp up a bit,,, do get the bike, nothing like being on the open road at 80, wind in the face and nothing on you mind but enjoying the ride.

suprise, I go to see a new therapist this morning, was completely honest of all that was done and said,,, based on the principles I have followed, I was asked, why are you here and what can therapy do for you. Seems like you have a solid game plan and know what to expect and what to do.

I advised her of advising the ten year old son after wife gave her diluted version as to why there were problems in the marriage, therapists response, he is young, but he is aware of the arguements in the home and has a right to know what is going on from BOTH sides, supposedly, the wife's therapist said I was just cruel and no one would ever suggest telling a ten year old what happended.

I advised her of the readings here and other sites, she advised to keep reading, seems like it is the proper way to handle things at this point, that I seem to know exactly what to expect from the wife and how to react to her.

My thoughts are, with out the readings here, I was left to wing it on emotions, point here is, I've been told by the W that I was crazy reading pschobabble on the internet and that it would not get me anywhere, guess like every thing else, she is full if sh** <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The Indian bike are very beautiful and much more affodable ... I will get it as my birthday present this year. For long distant cruiser, I have my eyes on GoldWing.

It is no surprise that your IC pretty much leave you alone ... I agree for you to tell your own version to son. Not to hurt him or to paint WW as a bad person but to inform him the fact and explain what your plan B is about.

My only suggestion to you about contact is you have to make sure to repeat " .... I do this to protect me from getting hurt. I can't take the current situation." like a broken record to her when she takes it wrong about your NC and before you hang up.

-rh-

rookie,

I don't know about her being full of sh*t, but she just isn't full of the right stuff. Some people, like our wives, have a hard time accepting things that they read or hear from others. With my wife I think she figures, "why would they want to help me? Their advice can't be any good." That is the pessimist in her, and it sucks! Take that, coupled with the fact that she just hates to read, and it is nearly impossible to get her to come here. She would come up with a thousand excuses why she didn't have time, or something like that. So it is our tasking to be persistent and teach them everything we are learning here. JMHO.

r0uter

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by r0uter:
..... teach them everything we are learning here. <hr /></blockquote>You are absolutly right except the above trailer. It is futile for BS to "teach" WS in A situation ... They are soo paranoid that everything that you say is "going" to hurt them. WS in this state "trust no one" ... not even OP. It is sad but that is the fact.

The only thing we could do is to "help" creating the reality into their A. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The more reality they are facing the more strained in A. Until the fog is lifted, MB is just another pychobable website to them. My ExW called SH a ripoff conselor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and his website is for gosipping bulettin board.

-rh-

A friend of mine just stopped by.

His W is a close friend of my W's mother, the MIL is saying the problems in our marriage are that I am too controling and dont let her go any where,
I AM FUMING BOUT NOW, she came and went as she pleased.

The MIL was informed by this woman that my W has a boyfriend, MIL states it is just a working relationship and they are just friends,,,,,,I could call her now and set her straight, but I'm too mad at the moment. MIL was also informed that all at work knows about the A, talk about denial.

The W is lying and I'm being accused again, anything to justify her moving out and taking the son away. Cnt believe thisBS.

rookie ... Leave MIL alone. Unless you are asked directly, you are damaging the grandma of your kids. Let MIL says anything they want ... they will feel as an [censored] when the truth cames out. Just a month ago, my FIL complainted that the SS that ordered by the court wasn't enough and I should give her more ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , she is taking me to the cleaner and destroyed my plan to retire at 50 yrs old !. You know, he is the only grandpa of my 2 D, my dad passed away years ago. I told him, I understand that it is not sufficient but I have to sell the house and more to give her what she wants ... currently I make less than what she is asking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . FIL wants me to finance her D's A with OM !!!. The same OM that smacked her D face 2x within 1 years. I am staying away from FIL, he is welcome as my 2 D's grandpa but the R stop right there.

-rh-

I've calmed downd a bit,, but there is still anguish there over the in-waws.

My D is married, if she came to me stating there was a problem in her marriage, I would listen, my NEXT step, out of respect for my SIL, and for my own knowledge, would be to speak with HIM. Before I would give my daughter any advice on her situation, I would WANT to know both sides of the story.

I was not given that respect, even after the MIL closest friend advised her that the W was having a A.

For her to be telling people I know, that I was the reason for the break up of the marriage compounds the problem for me.

As a parent I feel they should have taken the responsibilty to KNOW what they are talking about BEFORE giving any advise. Yes, they are her parents (the FIL I have no respect for at all) but
they should not have rushed their judgement.

My MIL has informed my W, that (based on the info the W has told her) there is no way she can return to me.

I have done alot for both of these people, even though I dont hold her father in high regard, I was ALWAYS there when they needed anything and to be judged by them like this,, I cant even explain how it makes me feel.

If by any remote chance the W and I did get back together, I would have a very difficult time not chewing on them about this....VENT POST

Only on liner response <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .... blood is thicker than mud or water.

You feel betrayed by your MIL and that is understandable considering that the least she could have done was to keep her mouth shut and give the impression of being an impartial observer. She doesn't realize that by giving her approval to her daughter's A and shameful behavior, she is harming her daughters best interests for the odds are extremely slim that her daughter and the OM relationship will bloom into something more permanent like marriage. The OM will dump her after he's had his fun with her and she will probably be devastated considering all she gave up for him. Maybe then your MIL will open her eyes as to the damage that her support for her daughters A has brought to her child's life.

TMCM, couldnt agree with you more, still does not alleviate the hurt I have over their denial(in-laws) which enables the A., Like I said before, being a parent of married children myself, I would have shown enough concern to find the FULL story.

Anyhow what a small world it is, her cousin who I am very close friends with just called.

When I retired from the police dept., he attended the party and became friendly with several of the officers there.

He, the cousin ran into one of them at the store and told the cousin ALL ABOUT THE WIFE'S A, seems like her family is going to find out after all, without me having to say a word.

He simply could not believe it, as i have heard from many that knew me and the W, you guys were the happiest couple we knew, you had the perfect marriage.

Hate this, but here we go.

Last week I told her if she ws going to sign the lease I was going to sell the house, too big for myself to live in.

She came by last night, I'm not sure why, but she said to get things planned as to what we were going to do. She again asked me to reinance and keep the house, Said no, wouldnt do that, not to be rude as I explained, but I was not going to be mortgage poor.

I also if she wanted a divorce, again, yes, she did, she could no longer live in this house as she did not feel comfortable.

Weellll, today the listing agent is to arrive at 7Pm., W calls, seems she doesnt want to give up the house after all, asked me to refinance, we will seperate for 6 more months (only been a week so far) and after 6 mos., if she decides the marriage will work, which she said she did not want to give me any false hope, she will work on it at that time.

My reply, OK, I put my life on hold for 6 mos while you try out you relationship with the OP, if it doesnt work with him, then you'll be back, I will not do that.

I told her the only way I would agree to a 6 mos. seperation, if I was GOING to keep the house was to a no contact agreement with the OP, she agrees to this(for about the 6th time). She states she needs some time alone to think things out.

Anyhow for the first time she states that if our marriage is going to work, she is going to have to change jobs,,,,(news flash) and she is unsure if she can do that, but does state that it is unfair to the OP to stay working there as he is getting a divorce because of this A.

What a frigging roller coaster, but at least there seems to be some reality setting in here, not much, but some.

Mean time, we are going to have to pay a rent and a mortgage at the same time, which is going to leave us strapped, but if it saves the marriage,,,,

Sorry rookie but unless she contributes to paying the mortgage on the house while you two are separated, that plan is definitely going to send you to the poorhouse. And on top of this, unless you hire a prive P.I. to watch your WW around the clock, she can still be seeing the OM behind your back. My vote is for you to continue to proceed with your original plan of selling the house.

i think that a reality check is called for at this point.

your ww is still in the throws of her affair but can't stand the thought of YOU selling what i'm sure she considers to be HER house! LOL and so you are actually ready to consider her feelings in this matter?

my friend...at what point does one finally decide that one can't and shouldn't allow themselves to be controlled by the sick machinizations of a cheating spouse. i'm sure that your ww is a nice person but letting her chose the music your dancing to is the same as allowing a junkie to have your atm card.

the junkie will swear not to use the money for dope but you know that he/she will. because he/she can't help him/herself anymore then your wife can help herself. and while the junky empties your account they empty your heart as well...taking everything good that's there till there's nothing left of yourself to love.

my friend i have been down your road and i'm here to tell you that you can't be drawing and then re-drawing lines in the sand that you swear are final! not and have anyone believe you mean what you say.

her last proposal to you is nothing short of negotiation...and she is willing to give you nothing! and guess what? at this stage i'm betting that she wont give you anything ever....even if the OM gets smart and dumps her. sorry but you have read me right. and he should get smart and dump her!

your WW is not a very nice lady at the present time. she has already broken up one marriage (his) and is not only ready to brake up yours but is willing to break YOU as well in the process!

if it were only a matter of money that yopu were gambling with than i would say what the h@ll? but this is not just about money...it's now come down to small things like common decency and it sounds like she is so sick at this point that she resents even offering you that. and you want her! you want this woman as your wife even now so? well if so then you had better be some one other then the man she's come to know and feel no respect for because a "good" man isn't what this lady seems to want right now...if you get my drift.

look i'm not advocating that you run right out to your attorney and begin the divorce...but you simply must establish some boundaries...boundaries that she knows are for real where you're concerned. the woman says that she needs time and she expects the world to stop spinning...my G-D if she were a 3 year old you'd give her a spanking for goodness sake! and now she wants a house?! PA-L-E-A-S!
coach

rookie ... right now WS is negotiating with you to finance her A ... Sell the house to protect yourself and stop enabling her A.

I would also stop using join checking account and so on ...

It is like giving money to an alcoholic beggar. It is futile.

-rh-

Rookie, the bad name calling of your wife by others, in my mind is uncalled for. I know that people automatically call the women a wh*re, sl*t, etc., plus of course our society makes the male out a stud somehow. I have ran into people in our local resturant who have brought up my situation and called my wife names like that, and I have given them a dirty look and told them I don't consider her a wh*re, sl*t, or whatever, but confused. I get the point accross. Amazing how quickly people attach those names to especially women who may be going through an affair, even if its only the first one. It would be different maybe if they really deserved the title, but the quick judgement from some people only makes things worse. My wife is a very good woman whom I believe has been led astray by satan and no matter what, I could never think of her that way.

Currently my wife is making more money than I,since I've retired and now have a set pension, shortly I will be employed again, and my financial situation will greatly improve.

The W WILL be resonsible for her contribution towards the mortgage and her rent.

Name calling of the wife, I really dont have a opinion one way or the other, cause I've sure had several names for the OP, and since my W was a willing participant in the A, the door swings both ways.

She knew she was married and that she had taken vows to honor her marriage, it was her morals and character flaws that let her seek refuge in someone else, she knew the pain it was cause, she knew it had the potential to break up 2 families.

No I do not feel very sympathetic towards her or the OP, I wouold love for them to experience the pain the OP's W, I and the children ivolved have felt.

I'm sure my W is overwhelmed with guilt, I've seen it every time I've spoke with her, but has that stopped her or the OP, NO. She is paranoid about everything now, if I say something to her she tries to read into every word and gives me her interpetation. I've given up on alot of aspects in my marriage.

There is alot of talk about the fullfillment of EN's, throughout this I have attempted to fullfill hers, only to be met with negetive responses from her, I'm very tired about this whole thing. I also have needs that have not been met in a long time, but I have to wait. I am feerful of meeting anyone now who might even show a slightest interest in me and fills even the remotest EN's I have not placed myself in a situation to meet anyone else, or have shown outward interest in anyone else, have I felt interest, ABSOLUTLEY.

Other night at a party, someone did show interest, I left, the sacrifices these WS's put us BS's through because of their selfishness, selfcentered approach to life is unbleivable.

I will do what ever it takes to save my marriage, do I still love my wife?, yes, the person I knew before the A, Do I love her currently as she is?, NO, I have a dislike for liars, cheats, and sneaks.

My wife was alsway a person who was painfully honest, if I asked her a question, no matter what, she would ALWAYS give a complete and honest answer, right now I will not believe a thing from her and that is very hurtful.

So will I keep the house for the next 6 mos., yep, but she is going to help with the payments. It to me is only one more thing that is making me bitter towards her, should she come back, I will make every effort to make the marriage work, if she does not, at that point I can leave with NO love left and no regrets.

I talked to the wife yesterday, kept it very friendly, so much for a plan b, I'm trying, but it is very emotional at times.

She stated that when she is at work, now that all know of her affair and that she has moved out of the house, people are very stand offish of her and she is feeling rejected by many, wonder why. 4 months after I had major surgery for cancer and was in recovery she supported me by starting a A, I retired in June and am under her medical plan, she wants a divorce which would effectivley leave me with no medical insurance ( at this time a must.

I used to work for the same entity as her, still have many friends employed there, the OP's wife also worked there and also has many friends still there, what did she expect people to applaud her and OP for breaking up two marriages??

Just venting, very tired of this all. Seriously thinking of pulling the plug on this myself.

When she moved there was a agreement that if she was not going to have contact with me she would not have contact with him, he is on vacation 400 miles away with his son, I asked her if she has spoken with him, she stated yes, he calls daily, honest bout something for a change.

I asked her if she explained what our agreement towards no contact with either of us was about to him, she states she does not want to do this over the phone at work, funny, she never had a problem before saying she wanted a divorce move out or anything else while at work.

I am about totally LB'ed by this woman, the more I am away from her the more I realize how cold hearted she is and selfish, to a extreme, and I am thinking, if even is she did come back would I want someone like that back in my life.

Meantime, I am going on vacation with my son in two weeks, I fully expect she will have the OP here at my house as she is staying to take care of the dogs while I am gone, this is upon agreement we made earlier, but she also told me before that she could never feel comfortable in this house again,,, FOG talk, I want to get back into life, I want someone to be with again.

rookie if you're going to violate your Plan B you might as well head straight for a lawyers office and file for divorce. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but every time you break the no contact clause of Plan B, more of your remaining love for her dies and if you keep this up, you won't have any more love left if and when she gets serious about rebuilding the marriage. Ask yourself if you are not subconciously sabotaging your Plan B on purpose in order to loose all the remaining love you have for her and thus making the decision to divorce her easier for you.

TMCM, You are right.

I did get a call from the OP's wife a couple minutes ago. He is fishing with friends, one his wife is best friends with. Supposedly the W called him and is having 2nd thoughts with th eOP and he, the OP is sulking and in a very foul mood there, so,,,he also told the friend that they have not had a PA yet, and that he is worried she is comming back to me, hope the ahole is in extreme pain. His son he has been ignoring up there due to his depression and the people there are fed up with him.

The wife and I did talk again this morning, it seems her attitude is softening a bit, but not to the point that I would say come home, again not a good plan B, but my plan A was not much better.

She has been initiating the calls, and I'm trying to put the friendly, happy game face on when she does. Sorry, I'm just really confused about now by the mixed messages she is sending and it is making me crazy.

Plan B is also about no more meeting the WS's EN's. A top EN of women is CONVERSATION and if you engage her in talk every time she calls you then you are meeting that important EN. But if you've decide to switch back to Plan A, then read the following:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a strategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
--

And (more) recently:

--
Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.

--------------------
"Those who say they cannot follow the Policy of Joint Agreement are really saying what they want to do is more important than how you (their spouse) feels."
....Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.

"When your spouse is trying to decide between you and the lover, it's time for Plan B."
...Willard F. Harley Jr. PhD.

Primary Rules for Infidelity
First rule of what to know when your spouse is having an affair:
Your emotions and your instincts will lead you in the wrong direction 99.9% of the time.

First rule of what to do when your spouse is having an affair:
Ignore almost all of what they say they want from you, how they feel about what you are doing to fix the marriage and any talk about the marriage, "being over, get over it."

You cannot base decisions about what to do on either of those things. Neither is objective and both are destined to fail.
....Penny R.Tupy ~ Volunteer MB Weekend Mentor Coach ~ Lifeworks Coaching/Save Your Marriage Central www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com

"No one understands the disease of infidelity until it's upon you. And then you are transfigured. Of course you have your reasons for what you do, but they are generally misleading."
....Marina in, “The Flaming Corsage” by Wm. Kennedy
"<hr /></blockquote>

rookie,

TMCM hit it right on the money ... you are sabotaging your own plan B. Yes you can have absolutly NC with WW, even with kids.

Go and take your Harley's out from the garage ... take a spin for a few hours then think what you want to do.

Then come back here to post on what you want to do.

-rh-

Here is what is happening, the OP's wife has her best friend with the OP on vacation. The OP is very upset and the W and him have been arguing, he wants a commiment from her and she wont give it to him, they are major LBing if this is going on and it is a first.

Yesterday when I spoke with her she stated that she was drained as it was a very emotional day for her, since that was the first conversation I had with her yesterday, he must have been placing alot of pressure on her, my opinion, the more the better. So armed with the info I have right now, that he is under pressure and putting a emotional arm on her, I am going to be as nice as possible at this moment and give her something to think about without putting ANY pressure on her.

Sounds like a plan A switch, but I have to grab this opportunity while I can, it is one of the first times I have had the chance in this situation to look like the ggod guy and I dont want it to slip out of my hands.

She has actually held conversations with me that were on a friendly basis, something that has not happended in a long time.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Sounds like a plan A switch, but I have to grab this opportunity while I can, it is one of the first times I have had the chance in this situation to look like the ggod guy and I dont want it to slip out of my hands. <hr /></blockquote>IMO you never do plan B properly. Watch our for being taken ... you might grooming cake eating monster. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> -rh-

redhat, I do understand that the threat of her falling into the cake eating mode again is very real.

As I stated before though, she has softened in her conversation a bit. The OP is starting to freak, the more he pursues and places pressure on her the better, she is very emotional at this time and feeling quite guilty about the A.

If I can come across as the only person at this point who is NOT pressuring her, all the better, but I will not stay in this mode for long if her attitude does not get any better.

If I could I'd call the OP and tell him the more pressure he puts on her the better chance he has of changing her mind to commit to him, LOL, would never do that, but I definetley hope he keeps it up, and the freakier the better, might just give the fog a good kick in the pants.

Amazing how an A starts to stink once the whole world knows about it. Sure it was fun while it was a well kept secret and there was the beleif that it could develop into a committed relationship that the whole world would eventually accept and respect, but now that the bat guano has hit the fan there is not much of that happening anymore, is there?

TMCM, the fact that the A is public really has not stopped her from calling him, the friend on the trip with the OP states she has called several times, but, I am sure that it has put a damper on the fun aspect of it, both of them are miserable at this point, I know from talking to her that she is, she is very much stressed, must be the emotional strain, guilt and the embarassment, and I know he is from what I am hearing from the person with him on the trip, far as I am concerned, more the miserable the better.

She was supposed to have a baby shower for one of the girls she works with, 20 were invited, 10 have cancelled and she is of the opinion, rightfully so, that the others do not want to associate with her because of the sitch. And for some reason still, she does not think it will affect her job.

Nobody said that full disclosure of the A was going to stop it, all I said was that the A started to stink after the whole world found out about it, and you just validated this.

TMCM, I ALWAYS respect your opinion and am always glad to get a response from you,

I do agree with the you on your statement that it is harder for them right now.

Last night she did stop by on her way to the parents house, I kept it very civil and friendly even though it eats my heart out.

She did give me a hug last night, but she is still in a complete fog. I did not bring up the A at all.

Bothers me that the inlaws are supporting her in this whole thing, they are buying her furniture for her apt. like you said before TMCM, the are going to feel like total asses once they see that they helped support the A, these are people who always give the impression of the moral high road.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
TMCM, I ALWAYS respect your opinion and am always glad to get a response from you.<hr /></blockquote>I have never doubted your respect for my opinions and even if we disagree, I know that respect will still stand strong.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I do agree with the you on your statement that it is harder for them right now.<hr /></blockquote>And it will be harder as time goes by because the same factors that gave birth to the A will eventually consume it. Not to mention that the OM is love busting her with selfish demands. All the good feelings she has of him, will eventually be replaced with bad feelings for him (the death of her infatuation with him). If I'm not mistaken, this process has already begun.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She did give me a hug last night, but she is still in a complete fog. I did not bring up the A at all.<hr /></blockquote>A part of her knows that what she is doing is wrong but she is very much addicted to the OM. And that same part doesn't want to give you up and for you to give up on her.

If and when you decide to go into Plan B please keep in mind that Plan B is NOT a punishing tactic against her. It is just the opposite for the Plan B letter, aside from it's no contact request, is a letter of love and hope.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Bothers me that the inlaws are supporting her in this whole thing, they are buying her furniture for her apt. like you said before TMCM, the are going to feel like total asses once they see that they helped support the A, these are people who always give the impression of the moral high road.<hr /></blockquote>And that's the tragedy of this because in their beleif that they are being supportive of their daughter, they are actually hurting her future happiness and wellbeing. They are not worthy of your scorn but of your pity.

[ July 24, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

TMCM, as far as her parents go, if this issue is ever resolved and the W and I get back together, which I feel is very possible, I will not have the same feelings for them that I did.

Out of respect, I have seen them lately, when either picking up my son or dropping him off, I have been very cordial and concerned.

My FIL is the type of person who can pick up a comic book and has the resolution for every world problan, in short a real ahole, I have never engaged him in a argument, as it is futile to argue with a idiot.

If we get back together, I will have to put a game face on. They have been spoon feeding my son what they FEEL is going on and I have noticed a big attitude change in him towards me, this is bothering me deeply, as these are the same people who did not want to get involved in my marital problem, but yet they involve the son.

I have my son Mon-Fri 7A-6P, On tues 7A through Wed at 6P, this last weekend had him all day Sunday, the wife has the stones to tell me that I am NOT doing enough with him.

This is easy for her to say, she comes home, mom has dinner ready, the house is cleaned and the laundry done. I take care of the house, have a few home improvements I am working on, cook all the meals cept dinner for the son, but do for myself, and every other responsibility involved with running a house, alone. Yet, she has the nerve to say this.

rookie,

From my last night classes by Wellington .. every 1 negative you need 5 positives to counter it. He talked about LB$ here !. This is the big reason why plan B is important !.

About your son matter ... Take the challange <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , I am thriving on challanges. The conselor said that currently there was no impact in this Dv on my 2 D !!!!. They thought my ExW done the work and give her 50-50 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ... I was the one who make sure that there is no changes in my 2 D's live during the A and during the Dv process. The most important is do your best to minimize any changes in his life ... he has to cope with a lot already. I have my mom helping me out for almost 3 months right after D-day & almost 11 months right after she filed. Get help !. I even have other skater's mom helping me out too when I can't take them. You are "single dad" for now and behave like one. You are Mr.mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .

-rh-

Everybody makes choices and if your in laws choose stupidity over wisdom, then let's hope they are happy with their choice.

As far as your son is concerned, try to create great moments with him by playing with him, taking him to a ball game, etc. He is not dumb, and any crap your W or you in laws try to feed him will eventually backfire on them. Your good actions with him will speak volumes to him.

rookie, i feel for you i find my H. very frustrating because he still lies to me too. says he is not seeing the other woman this weekend, when i listened to his voice mail and she is on it saying she can't wait to see him this weekend.anyway i feel like i owe you for telling me to use the voice activated recorder. what a great idea that was. i would have still been flondering. i am just going on with my life right now taking care of me and my 13yr.old son. i thank you so much for your advice. i hope it all goes well for you. i will pray for you. thank you again, de

TMCM, redhat, I do try to do things with my son, shows, festivals and a county fair this week. The wife called me and said I should do MORE. I explained that I have the house, landscapping, cooking meals and a house project I'm working on right now, unbelievable, this is from a woman who comes home, mom had dinner ready and there is a cleaning woman who comes in to take care of the parents house, last week she, tues night she is at school, weds night-had her nails done, thurs-shopping with mom. She has him 6 P till bed time, 9P, and she is telling me to do something with him???

Anyhow she asked me not to sell the house last monday, I agreed not to only if she would break contact with the OP as she stated she needed time alone to think things out from ME.

Find out tonight she has been calling him and he her while he has been on vacation. He is telling his 8 YOA son that he will have new brothers and sisters when he marries my W, this guy is way off the deep end.

I aksed the wife tonight when she to pick up son if she has been speaking to OP, she stated he has called. I explained that if I was to wait the 6 mos to sell the house and place my life on hold while she does not honor my request for nc she was being totally unreasonable (try and stay respectfull through a conversation like that)
She gets pissed says put the house up for sale, she cant take the pressure anymore, and leaves.

Guess what, calls back a hour later saying we should resolve this issue, either sell the house and move on and be friends or, AGAIN asks me to be patient enought to wait the 6 mos and NOT ask her about the OP anymore, as it is emotionally draining on HER. She states she doesnt think the marriage can be saved as long as I have a issue about the OP.

I have never been given any distance from him, for 7 mos now, there is always a issue involving him.

De, I'm glad it worked for you, I leave for vacation with my son next week, I am placing one in my home while I am gone as she is going to stay here to watch the dog, I figure I should have something to listen to when I get back.

rookie,

With due respect, I would put the house on the block and continue plan B.

-rh-

Rookie I also agree with redhat's opinion because all she wants to do is continue with the status quo. But it's your call, choose wisely.

Fence sitting, rookie. It's not up to YOU to back off on the issue of the OM. It's up to HER to do a No Contact.

The house is her safety net. If it's gone, and if the affair fizzles, she's burnt her bridge.

She wants time to see whether the OM is a keeper. She wants time to see whether you will guarantee that she can go back to the way things were.

Still fogbound.

If you stick to a 6 month delay in selling the house, and she doesn't agree to complete No Contact plus Marriage Builders type therapy, what are the chances?

I think this is like ripping off a bandaid. Quick, it smarts, but stops smarting sooner. Slow, it only hurts bit by bit, and you can stop pulling it any time, but it still hurts. And for longer.

Listen to TMCM, redhat, etc. She's in fog. She can't stand the pressure you're putting on her to end contact with OM? Since when is tolerating other men part of anyone's marriage vows? I seem to remember "foresaking all others"

Listen to the guys. You started out excellent in your Plan B. Go back to it, it was working!

rookie,

I agree with TMCM (of course) and with RH. She is having her cake and eating it too! You must end the madness if for nothing other than your own sanity!

Bellevue was right too. The plan B was really starting to shake her up! She was beginning to realize what she would be giving up and it hurt.

I hate to say it but, may be time to reduce your overhead.

When it comes to your son and his feelings...
Right now I think that you need to stop your projects and concentrate more on him. If he sees you giving up your valuable time (and he will see it) it will go a long way toward his feelings for you. He will begin to see that whatever BS she is feeding him is just that. Good luck!

Keep posting and keep your chin up!

r0uter

OK, here is what happended today, this is like a bad soap opera.

I found out last night she was still in contact with the OP from his wife, where the OP is vacationing, that he is telling the 8YOA son that he is going to have brothers and sister when he marries my W.

I called her this morning simply said I want a divorce and the house is going up for sale immedialty and hung up.

She calls back and I repeated words verbatim as he told her on the phone, told her it wasnt one that day I agreed not to sell the house, if you were going into the NC mode, when you were on the phone with the OP, I reinterated, I want the divorce NOW, and to well the house NOW and hung up again.

She calls several times hysterical on the phone, each time I said I have nothing else to say and hung up.

Guess who left work at noon and came over, yep, she says I sent him a e-mail(said I want to see it) saying that she is no longer going to speak with him. SHE asks can we go t marriage counseling to try to wrok things out, she adamently refused this when I suggested it. She says I cant move back here to the house, to many bad memories. I replied, Are you nuts?, you want me to sell this house, buy another while you are in a apartment for 6 mos to get your head straight, that is absolutley one of the craziest things I have heard...

She replies, I signed the lease for 6 mos, I will/might be back sooner.

Anyhow, we havent done ANYTHING together, fun for 6 mos, she just went to her parents house to change, wants to take little man to the county fair, I said have a good time, she, I want you to come with,,,

She also put her wedding ring back on, and out mine on. I'm not hopeful, but I'm going to play this one out.

I will find out from the OP's wife tonight if my W actually sent that e-mail, he returns to wrok Monday from vacation.

This is complete and utter insanity, but it is exactly what they describe the WS to be. Time to put my smiley face on and have fun at the fair.

But,,,,,

When she told you that she wanted 'passion' in her life, I'll bet she never bargained for this, did she? Oh well, if you do decide to go with her and your son to the fair, try to keep things civil between the two of you so that your son enjoys the day and won't have to witness any more lunacy (one lunatic in the family is more than enough).

rookie,

You do what you think is the best for you ... but you need 2x4 !!!!. You need NC w/ WW. This is WS's script ... begging, pleading and give you a bread crumbs to continue her A !!!!. You play this game you will drained your LB$ and you will say ... "NO MATTER IF YOU CHANGED I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE YOU ..."

Keep us posted ... I would not go with her to the fair ... unless ALL CONDITIONS ARE FILLED AND VERIFYIED. Anwyway kepp us updated and don't do harsh thing !. come back here to evnt and get second oppinion if that is going to matter to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Remember if WW still have conatact and lies to you ... even assuming this fair is going well (+1 on LB$) she will need to deposit +4 more !!!!.

She is addicted to OM & A ... and you are NOT strong enough and take it personnally.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />OK, here is what happended today, this is like a bad soap opera.<hr /></blockquote>
2x4! wack ! ... You walk into it ! no one to blame, you are still "playing" as an actor in this episode, main supporting cast <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .-rh-

Not to make you feel like a piñata (after redhat's swinging of the ol' 2x4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but you should reiterate to her the 2 deal breakers if she doesn't want to find herself a divorced woman:

1.End ALL contact with the OM FOREVER by sending him a letter or e-mail explaining briefly and directly that she does not want to see him ever again. You want to be a witness to her doing this.

2.Willingly agree to a marital recovery plan that includes counseling with a pro-marriage counseling professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(our resident MB coach with the username of 'cerri' and founder of www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com) as well as following the four rules for a succesful marriage(see my link bellow).

If she is unwilling to those 2, then she is not serious about rebuilding the marriage.

[ July 25, 2003, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

Rookie,

I don't recall if I have ever posted to you or not. I have however followed your story.

I think you did the right thing, and you should continue on the path toward selling the house and separating from her.

I liked Coffeeman's comment, She wanted passion, she has got passion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You passionately hate this situation and you are going to solve the problem. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sort of reminds me of many years ago in military training. When things were particularly rough, it was time for an "attitude check". Someone you yell out, "attitude check" and the response would be "I hate this place". Followed by the question "postive or negative?" and the answer is "I postiviely hate this place." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Ah! the good old days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think your W had the fog lifted for a second there. Reality really can be *****. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I doubt that the fog will stay lifted, but it is time for her to figure out you won't play her games any longer.

She wants 6 months to figure things out, and lies about NC. No big surprise there, but I feel the message is straight forward. You cannot count on her, so sell the house, and move on. Do it with the best of the Harley approaches: minimum or better no LB's, radical honesty, care, and protection (for you, your children, and finally her), BUT start the process.

It is really up to her to decide if she is going to get on board or not. She has had time, and she is sitting on the fence. I am guessing BUT I guess she never really thought she would lose you. You have hung in there for so long.

So enjoy the day out, start the process of selling the house, and file for separation if your state allows it. That would be my plan, and then I would see if her plans change.

When she sees OM Monday, she may change her mind, OR he may look a little different. One never knows.

You have done well, and it is time end the games by taking action as YOU see fit, not as she sees fit.

God Bless,

JL

"1.End ALL contact with the OM FOREVER by sending him a letter or e-mail explaining briefly and directly that she does not want to see him ever again. You want to be a witness to her doing this.

2.Willingly agree to a marital recovery plan that includes counseling with a pro-marriage counseling professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(our resident MB coach with the username of 'cerri' and founder of www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com) as well as following the four rules for a succesful marriage(see my link bellow)."

I would add a third condition that she should move back into the home and sublet her apartment so that she can put into practice the principles of MB.

Either she is committed to rebuilding the marriage or she is bull****ting you.

ACTION SPEAKS LOUDER THAN WORDS.

All, thanks for the responses, been a very emotional day and to see you all here in the cheering section is very uplifting, this is a lonely venture we are all on and I count on you guys/gals and respect ALL opinions, everyone here has played the game, some won some lost, but WE played.

We didnt make the fair, but we did go to a movie with the son, to a antique car show and dinner. I kept it very light, did ask her if OP responded to her e-mail, she said no, but he did open it and read it. I am checking with the OP's wife in a few, I'll find out from her if he is on a suicide watch at this time or not. HE IS NUTS.

She did state that she might not make it to the apartment, remember I said the Inlaws were selling their house, well the contract is being presented at the price they want tomorow, they will need a place to stay till they buy their out of state residence (the further they move the better, I will help them pack so no time is lost) In the mean time I did tell her to stay at her parents house (i did not explain why, but I am still quite pissed and dont want to start anything, I also dont want her thinking she can just walk back in), she agreed to that, right now space is a good thing.

No, I am not going to sell the house at this moment, but she is not aware of that, if I do, as I explained to her, I planned on buying a good distance from here so she would not rely on me as always. If I did sell now and move out of the area, I would be putting a block to her comming back as where I would buy is out of my son's school district, and the district I would move to is not desirable for his education, sooo.

Off to talk to the OP wife, should be interesting,
Thanks all, never met any of you, but you are all very special to me. Thanks.

OK, just got off the phone with the OP's wife. She did speak with the friend that is on vacation with her H, the OP.

My W DID send him the e-mail stating that she is no longer talking to him, the OP was throwing things around the cabin complaining she broke it off with him.

I am estatic that he has a over abundence of stomache acid for a change, but Monday, when he returns to work will be another day....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You're making progress! The OM's wife is your ally too. Just keep following the MB plan.

The OP's wife is adamant about divorcing him over the A, she states that she under no terms will she ever take him back, she intially wanted to reconcile but gave up hope after the A continued.

I am sure the OP is not aware of what he is loosing because of this.

I have spoken with her numerous times, even though my W is the reason for their divorce, she ends each conversation with hope that we can work our problems out and that she knows I love my wife, very classy for a woman scorned.

I have much respect for her and always will.

When advised to contact the OP's spouse I originally did not think it a good idea, I was very wrong, if my marriage does work out she will be very responsible for it. I will never be able to thank her enoough for her courage through her own problems to help me with mine.

It is truly a shame this guy is not aware of what he is giving up, I am sure when he does wake up he will be kicking himself in the [censored].

rookie, send OMW to this web site ... to get support. Beside if they could work out their M, the further away OM from your WW.

-rh-

redhat, She has been here, told her about it awhile ago.

She states there is now way she is going to reconcile with him.

It is too bad that most WS doesn't wake up on time and cry the gollum's song. Hang in there brother. I am heading to Lincoln,Nebraska and hope Alan Athur (MBer) could meet me there.

-rh-

rookie, how are you doing? i was just thinking about you. i hope all is well with you hang in there you are strong. best wishes for you, de

Thanks for the responses.

This is the week that should be very interesting and it will be the straw breaker for me.

The OP is back from vacation, she WILL see him at work, it is unavoidable. If she holds to her commitment not to speak with him fine. If she does start with the phone calls and such, it is over, I am going to file for divorce and I will sell the house. This is no longer a threat, it was not in the first place.

I have had the worst 5 years and this has to end.

Starting 5 years ago, on the PD I was on we were the constant issues on the nightly news, I was subjected to national news, Dateline, interviews and toasting. The people who were causing all the problems were my subordinates, every day for the last couple years I had to deal with those aholes on a daily basis, law suits, news interviews and constant court appearances.

Year and a half ago I was daignosed with cancer, have had surgery and treatments, now in remission, but there are lingering problems to deal with.

Last Dec. I had to start dealing with the A the W had.

At some point I have to eliminate the stress and start thinking of myself as I can no longer deal with all that is going on.

Should she return or make any effort to deal with the problems in our marriage I will make andy and all attempts to correct what was wrong, but SHE will also have to make attempts and commitments, and her actions, not words is what I will go by.

Friday, as stated earlier, we did spend a good part of the day with our son. Yesterday, she called and asked me if I wanted to go shopping with her for a baby shower gift for a friend, yes attempts, but the true attempt on her part will be the NC with sweet jeans.

If there is any contact, I am not going to place my life on hold for the 6 mos she is requesting. I have made up my mind, as painful as it is going to be, it is more painful to live this on a daily basis and at some point I have to say enough.

I do love her, but I am no where to being the person I was or can be. She has accused me of being very emotionally upset for the last 4-5 months, guess someone calling your wife to say I miss you, I love you, I want to marry you and have children with you, is to have no affect on the BS.

Alot of this is venting, but it is not BS either, her clock is ticking and it is up to her. I have told her I was very serious the other day about the divorce, I still am if there are not any attempts on her part followed by actions, it is over.

Well,this was a interesting weekend.

Friday, Sat and Sun. the wife has been by the house.

Fird. we took the son out as stated earlier, Sat., she came by asked me to go shopping with her for a babyshower gift, although I had plans, I did go with her and carried on with my plans, although later, after she left. Sunday I was sanding the bathroom getting it ready to paint, she came into the room, I did not hear her, tapped me on the shoulder, when I turned around, pretty startled, she put her arms around me and simply cried.

We talked, she states she is having a hard time dealing with everyone knowing what happended with the A and doesnt know how she is going to handle facing my mother, brothers and friends.

I explained that all, as they have stated, wanted our marriage to work out and that all love her and will not persecute her for what happended, and like all things it will take time. I also explained that I would not tolerate anyone criticizing her. This is something we would face TOGETHER.

She then stated she doesnt know how she will get the intimate feeling back, although I know that once she gets over the OP this will not be a problem, but I did explain that we have to become friends again. All conversations since the A have been tense and have led to arguements, I tried to avoid such, but at time she would come sporting for one, once he is out, again, we can get back to a normal frame of mind.

I did speak with her this morning on the phone at work, OP is back from vacation. Her demeanor was very open, talkative and the person she was before the A, she is trying, it is encouraging.

I keep praying that the fog is lifted or at least starting to, but, this has gone on for 8 months now, I can hope, pray and remain optomistic, but I also have to be realistic.

Send a prayer rookie's way folks... thanks

Lord, you know Rookie is trying to help out his wife and trying to save his marriage. Lord we know You could do miracle and You have Your way to let Your children have choices. However please hold off the evil away for their intentions are hurt and destroying life of Your children. Strengthen Rookie's emotion to work on salvaging his marriage and give him your wisdom to act/speak/convey with Your grace. Deliver his wife away from OM and earthly desire from him so that rookie would have his chance to show her Your Grace. In the name of Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit, we prayed and asked you. Amen.

Rookie, you are back into 'coaster. This is promising development but if this 'coaster turn downward ... don't act harshly. Vent here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

[QUOTE]
" she put her arms around me and simply cried.

We talked, she states she is having a hard time dealing with everyone knowing what happended with the A and doesnt know how she is going to handle facing my mother, brothers and friends."

Good. She approached you as you were involved in getting the house ship-shape [read: the place needs to look appealing to buyers.]

"I explained that all, as they have stated, wanted our marriage to work out and that all love her and will not persecute her for what happended, and like all things it will take time. I also explained that I would not tolerate anyone criticizing her. This is something we would face TOGETHER."

Excellent! Presenting a united front to the world as you rebuild.

"She ... doesnt know how she will get the intimate feeling back, although I know that once she gets over the OP this will not be a problem, but I did explain that we have to become friends again. All conversations since the A have been tense and have led to arguements, I tried to avoid such, but at time she would come sporting for one, once he is out, again, we can get back to a normal frame of mind."

Great! Reality is sinking in!

"I did speak with her this morning on the phone at work, OP is back from vacation. Her demeanor was very open, talkative and the person she was before the A, she is trying, it is encouraging."

Now is the time for her to hold firm to NC.

"I keep praying that the fog is lifted or at least starting to"

Appears the fog is burning off once the light hits it.

Enjoying vicarious happiness for rookie, Bellevue is smiling!

Guys, never really been the overly emotional type, but, this is hitting home.

Thanks for your concerns and prayers.

Gotta keep plugging,

Rookie

By the way, Bears Vs. Colts. Aug. 9th., pre-season.
Rooks prediction, Bears by 3.

The W has been over everyday since Friday.

Son is now in football, practive is 5:30-7:30, for him to go, she now has to come to the house to make dinner as we dont get home till 8, we had our 1st practice yesterday and after dinner, the W and S left at 9, doesnt make much sense, since he is back here at 7A.

Yesterday when she did come I noticed she did not have her wedding ring on, stated she forgot to put it on, was OP's first day back at work from vacation.

Her attitude was ok, but I could tell a differance, a little more obstinant, but I do expect this for the time being. There is no way at this point if I know they are talking at work or not.

I did call OP last night, he would not answer the phone but I left him a message, stated to him" I have a wife and son I care about and am worried about, my W asked you not to speak with her or have contact her, out of decency I am asking you to leave her alone and honor her request", honeslty, I did not get rude or uptight on the message, as hard as it was not to reach through the phone and strangle his [censored], I was polite.Do I expect him to honor the request, when pigs fly.

I'll see if she FORGOT her wedding ring and what her attitude is tonight, football is Mon-Thurs, so I will be seeing her everynight this week.

Friday the son and I leave for a weeks vacation, fishing, she was supposed to go, but changed her work schedule when the problems srose and is not going.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
 ... stated she forgot to put it on, was OP's first day back at work from vacation.

Her attitude was ok, but I could tell a differance, a little more obstinant, but I do expect this for the time being. There is no way at this point if I know they are talking at work or not.
<hr /></blockquote>
WS would act diffrenetly if they have contact with OP. You could tel by their actions. Her actions was alarming and keep your guard up.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Friday the son and I leave for a weeks vacation, fishing, she was supposed to go, but changed her work schedule when the problems srose and is not going.<hr /></blockquote>Did you ask her again ?, at least for the weekend. If you go and she stays behind I urge you to find a way to snoop and verify her where about.

-rh-

Going to place a voice activated recorder in a strategic location, if she is on the phone with him I will know, but I am going to have a hard time getting it without my son knowing it, as I have him now ALL the time till bout 9 at night, stores are closed at that time so I'm going to have to be creative how I get it.

Also, sent her flowers this morning to her work place, two fold answer to that one, 1st is since this like a plan A as I have to have daily contact with her now, I want the best to be shown and give her something to think about.

I have not been arguing with her at all and have tried to make our contacts as non-confrontational as possible,though she does try to keep the intesity level up I remain calm. She continually states she cant move in because of the arguments we have had and she does not want to live with that intesnity, hence, the intensity is now gone.

2nd reason is the OP hoovers around her area, I want him to see that there is nothing I wont do to rectify our marriage and that I have not given up, that was also one of the reasons I called the ahole last night.

I know he reads her e-mail, he is in charge of the computer systems for her work,he is the one,that monitors the emails of employees to determine the use of the systems at work (that is a kick in the pants since he is the biggest abuser).

Funny, she accused me of late as being controling, keeping tabs on her and such, and here he is doing more so than I would ever think of.

rookie,

The flowers were a nice touch! Any way of getting into her car to leave her a little note on the dash? My W especially likes it when I do that. (It also affords me the opp to check her cell phone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> She usually doesn't clear the call logs until she gets home from work. (she hasn't cleared it in a week, hopefully the result of nothing to hide!)
I leave her little notes in places where she wouldn't expect to find them. This morning's note was by her contact case, and was the quote that TMCM uses in his signature line, "...if you could see yourself through my eyes..." (Thanks TMCM)

Hope things continue to improve for you with no surprises!

Have you read my thread on Just found out ?

r0uter

[ July 29, 2003, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: r0uter ]

You sent a Plan B letter 2 weeks ago. What happened with that?
This shows your wife you can say something and not really mean it.

That way when you tell her you want to save the marraige and will do positive thngs for the relationship, she sees that you can't do what you say (see above).

Either you are in Plan B or ou are not in Plan B. Where are you?

Two things happened Chris

She did come to the house asking to go to marriage counseling, something she hasnt done, and she stated she wanted to try to make the marriage work, but as she added, I dont know if it will work, that was not encouraging.

She did send the OP a nc, this was verified.

2nd., my son is now in football, Mon-Thurs we are at practice and dont get home till almost 8Pm., she HAS to help out at the house with dinner otherwise it would be sandwiches or Micky D's for the next couple months till the season is over.

I'm not excited by her efforts, so far, just showing up for dinner and leaving to go to the parents house is not what I would call a effort on her part.. gotta keep chugging

Router, how's your sitch going? any better or still stuck in the mud?

By the way, did get that recorder, sent the son to play video games while I shopped.

She did come to the house asking to go to marriage counseling,
And the appt is when?

I'm not excited by her efforts, so far, just showing up for dinner and leaving to go to the parents house is not what I would call a effort on her part.. gotta keep chugging
And she probably won't make much of an effort. It is up to YOU to do a lot of the leg work.

Rookie, Chris is right about you doing a lot of the initial leg work. I know it's unfair but unfortunately life, in general, is anything but fair.

I'd like to suggest that you start planning 15 hours per week as a couple without family and friends. Like Sue from 'Surviving An Affair', the only way that your W is going to fall back in love with you is if the two of you make time for each other, as a couple WITHOUT the presence of family or friends. But YOU have to start the ball rolling and make this a requirement for your NEW marriage with her.

The 15 hours right now is very difficult, she is living at her mom's and she is here for about a hour each night for dinner.

Going on vacation Fri., she is not going, sooo,gonna have to wait till I get back.

I am sure she it talking to the OP at work, am not all that convinced it's work related. That is why I purchased the recorder, will see when I get back if she is calling/he is calling.

She did state tonight that she does have intentions of moving back in, some time, but....only words. If she was really interested in making it work, she'd be here. Breaks my heart to see her and the son leave everynight.

I have a appointment with my IC on Thurs and she on Fri. I told her to make the appt, as we have to wrok around her work schedule at this time, she said she would make the appt., again, I'll see, if not I am going to tentativley set one up when I see my IC.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The 15 hours right now is very difficult, she is living at her mom's and she is here for about a hour each night for dinner.<hr /></blockquote>Yes it is difficult but a very worthwhile goal if your intention is for her to fall in love with you again. After all, you did make time for her when you were courting her, isn't that right? Why not do so again?

rookie,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Router, how's your sitch going? any better or still stuck in the mud? <hr /></blockquote>

Flingin' mud like a mad man! Things are progressing very well. Faster than I expected, so I am trying to maintain a realistic expectation. Yesterday, I was able to talk with her about a sensitive situation without any tension at all. In fact, we finished with smiles and hugs. Last night she actually got intimate with me and fulfilled one of my top EN's!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope that your W's talk turns to action. I was very skeptical too, when my W started doing more things for me. Fortunately, all of my worries so far have been unfounded. She has been totally honest and open with me. (I have been verifying this!)

More later...

r0uter

rOuter, could not be happier for you, have prayed for ya, so, if it works,,,, get on your knees and start knocking em out for me bud.

TMCM, If I could get her to be around more I would, right now like I said with football, it is down to 45 minutes to a hour before she leaves for her parents home. When I get back from the fishing trip I am going to try to spend as much time as she will allow, and that is the key words, she allows.

If I push it too much I am accused of being manipulative, and it pushes her further away, seems like a no win sitch.

My mother is pushing me to call it quits, if the wife doesnt start to come around real soon, she says she can see it in my face that it has taken it's toll. Moms are usually right on target...

God I hope the fog starts to clear, I am exhausted.
Rookie

Just wanted to add, I did change the voice maile message on our home phone along with the access code, she was over last night and when the phone rang and she could not get to it in time, she found out the codes were changed.

She is asking me now who is calling that I do not want her to know about, I did check the phone upstairs and she did review the caller ID list, interesting, I told her since she is no longer living here, she should not be on the answering machine statin she is.

Had a big blow out with the W tonight, I walked away.

I know we the BS are supposed to be concious of the LB's and such, but it gets real hard when all I can get out of my W is I dont know's and I dont feel the passion. I broke major rule and told her if she could get over the OP, maybe the passion could return and asked her if she took the time to ask her IC that question, things went south from there.

She is back to the I'll go to counseling, but just so when we divorce we can do it as friends.

Seems when she raises her voice that is simply her way of showing emotions,as she always told me when I told her to stop yelling and talk, I've always been accused by her of being non-emotional as far as raising mine, well tonight when I did show my emotions, I was told to stop yelling at her, I simply reminded her of her statement, that I WAS showing emotions.

Been on this roller coaster WAY too long,, need to come up for air and get a grip on myself...

VENTING,,,,,

I am here by myself in the house, I asked her if she truly wanted to work on the marriage, why she couldnt she move back in, and go to counseling.

I've tried very hard latley to avoid any LB's, big time withdrawal tonight...but it's always about her feelings, mine NEVER are taken into account, or the son's.

Again and another LB, but I did make the statement that she has told me she loved me and I asked her how she could string this whole thing along knowing how it is effecting me, (loosing weight, not sleeping right and such) and truly say you love me, if you did, you wouldnt want to see someone you love hurt so much, I know a stupid move, but it's killing me.....

Hi Rookie,

Prayin' for ya. Gosh, I wish I knew what to
say. It's been a rollercoaster for a long time.
May God help you make the right decision, and make the right move. You are doing your best
considering. You've done a heck of a lot better
than I think I would do in that situation.
Take care of yourself, and son. Try not to
beat yourself up.

Ladysheep

Keeps getting better all along.

I just got the cell phone records of my W's phone.
They were mailed to a friends house as I didnt want to have her intercept them by any chance.

Her calls started to him Jan 28th, and have continued daily, 5-10 calls a day.

The W was the maid of honor at my daughters wedding (she is the step mom) this was the day she stated that she decided to make our marriage work, she was so serious about it that she called him twice from the wedding.

But, as she has told me numerous times, OP has nothing to do with our marriage and she is not hung up on him at all, they are just friends. She just lost her passion for me....

I cant take too much more of this.... it's gotta end one way or the other.

I did let her know, left a message on her voice mail that I have the records and what I have stated above, I feel at this point there is nothing left to loose.......

Finally did it, since I did not have the evidence to inform the city for which I used to work, where my W and the OP are currently employed I did not contact the city manager to make him aware of the A.

Since I have the phone records and can document the contact using CITY equiptment to facilitate the A, which is in violation of city policy to use said equiptment for personal use, I have e-mailed the city manager.

Since the OP is the person in charge of city phones and computers and is responcible for monitoring the use by other employees for violations of said policy, deep doo-doo is enroute the OP's way.

The wife has threatened me with divorce in the past if I ever contacted the manager as it would also place her job on the line, but she has already threatened me numerous times with divorce, so what do I have to loose at this point.

Good, send one of those sidewinder and see if their A fried up. WS is like an addict, cheat, lies, threathen, do all imaginable to continue their A. The more realities come on their way the better.

-rh-

Hi Rookie,

Sorry to hear that. Don't tell her you have contacted the city manager.

Let her and him find out for themselves.

Ladysheep

This is so typical, I did tell her about the cell phone bills and that she had called from the daughter's wedding shower, rehersal and wedding itself, she denies it, talk bout fog, it's in black and white from her phone to his, but it didnt happen.

No I did not say anything about the city manager issue, I am sure I will hear about that when it hits. I dont expect any action on it for a couple days, the city manager will probably check the cell bills and e-mail accounts before approaching the issue, which is only the proper thing for him to do.

rookie do the phone records show where the calls originated from? I ask because if they don't then it could be possible that it was the OM that contacted her, not the other way around.

TMCM, yep it shows incomming calls as well as the calls originated from her cell.

I cant beleive she was denying this, when I told her about the call from the wedding, her response after first denying it was to tell him that it was over as she saw all the family and still wanted to be part of it. Sooo that makes it about 8 times that she told him it's over.

What bothered me and I told her about it was the fact that there were times that we made love, she told me she loved me, then on the same day or next called him.

Rookie,

When was the last date on that bill that your W called him or he called her?

Is it still happening?

ladysheep the billing period was to July 3rd., it does show she contacted him then.

I did have to order the other billing periods back to November, her calls started Jan 28th. and contined at quite a heavy volume since.

I did talk to her today she sounds like someone beat her up, crying and the usual when she does not have control over a situation.

I did e-mail her mother, who has been spoon fed the version spun by the W., I informed her that I did have access to the W's e-mail without her knowledge and informed her of the messages left by the OP, like, I miss you I love you messages as well as a inappropriate one where he stated he was going to leave his phone on vibrate between his legs waiting for her to call.

I also advised her of the start of the calls from my wife and the amount she called him.

W was extrememly pissed bout the e-mail to mom, asked me how I could do that to a woman who recently had surgery for cancer, I then asked the wife how she could have a affair after I had surgery for cancer and was also awaiting result of further,, she started her A 4 mos. after my surgery, but again, it's about her......mom had her surgery one week or two weeks after I did...

Rookie,

Man I wish I knew what to tell you pal. I've been knock an 'em out, like you asked me to, hope it helps soon!
It ain't easy engaging a hostile without LB'ing, I wish you luck and strength. I pray that she will find the strength and clarity to see her way out of the fog soon. We all know that you are ready to accept her back and repair the damage, now it is up to her.
Keep venting, I know that it helps. Keep your spirits up the best way you can, and hold on to the love that you have for her.

Take care,

r0uter

Just remembered...

I wanted to tell you to have fun with your son tomorrow and next week! Work on yours and your son's healing for the week, it will do you some good to cleanse your soul!

Any way to cancel her cell phone at least while you are gone? I know that the phone service I have (Since both of our phones are in my name) I can deactivate the phones and I can change the password for her voice mail at will!! Just a thought, a little underhanded...oh well!!

Take Care and God bless,

r0uter

Rookie,

When was the wedding?

Do you know if they made any calls to each other
the whole month of July?

I believe it was a good idea to write to MIL.
Your W is just trying to manipulate you once
and again. Those are crocodile tears!! She's
upset she's being caught.

Sorry Rookie

Hey rOuter, happy for ya, Nope, not going to cancel her phone, the simple solution for her would be to hang up, difficult process to master, but once done...

Ladysheep, the wedding was June 7th, I dont think they are contacting each other by her cell any longer. OP's W states that he has a new cell, which I can only assume matches the one he probably bought her.

I do know for a fact that they were in contact last week while he was on vacation as the OP's W was reporting on all the calls they made to each other.The OP's did not go but her best friend did and kept her appriased at two all that was going on with OP and W.

I also know she was in contact with him this week as she told me about the voice mail message I left him, I had told him to stop contactin her as she requested, which Iknew was sent to his e-mail, again the friend on vacation. She stated that he let her listen to the message I left.

Taking my son fishing to northern Wisconsin in the morning for a week.

Take care all and keep me in your prayers.

The W and I did not part on good terms at all tonight.

Rookie

Hope you guys have a great fishin' trip!!!

Back from the fishing trip, the W came over while I was gone, removed alot of things from the home.

Her work did get the messge about her and the OP using company phones and such to carry on the A.
She was very pissed bout that, said I was trying to mess up HER life and HIS, guess the son and I dont matter....

Did lock it in with her parents when I dropped my son off about them aiding the affair and supporting it by taking her in, was like in one ear and out the other.

Giving up hope here real fast....tired now was a long drive, will post further later.

Well, a little more, was pretty tired last night.

When I spoke with BOTH MIL and FIL last night I told them that by taking their daughter into their home, buying her furniture for her apartment they were enabling her affair. Both were defensive, but I did not let them disregard what I was saying, nor did I let them take control of the conversation as they usually do. All was done respectfully, but I was not going to back down.

MIL had all the pat answers the W had given them, but dealing with the W so long into this, I knew exactly how to answer.

I explained that the W was calling the OP on the phone infornt of our 10 YOA son and asked what kind of example she was setting by doing so, when they did not answer I told them she was letting the boy know it was OK, to lie, cheat and compromise your morals for self serving purposes,

They did not know the OP was on vacation last week and the W and him were on the phone 5-6 times a day for the entire week, I then asked both of them if they knew how often the W called her own son when he was away for the week, I then told them ONCE, so who is she placing a priority on at this time. They had no answer.

MIL, who had breast cancer same time I was diagnosed with same. I asked her how she would have felt if her H had a affair 3 months after she had her breast removed, as my W started her's 3 mos. after my surgery that left me impotent for the time being, again no answer.

They then stated I should just let her go, I said that would be easy, if I didnt love her and if I didnt know she was making a mistake. Their response, as my W's always was is that I would never get over the A. I informed them that I was never given a chance to get over the A as it is a ongoing sitch that slaps me in the face daily, given time and distance from the A I could forgive, but no, honestly never forget.

My marriage, I honestly feel is over, the house IS going for sale this Monday and once that is done so am I. Everyone says that once your LB'd out you can say you tried, I'm there, I can honestly say if she walked through the door and said she wanted to try and her actions backed up her words, I would give it a try, but I'm beginning to realize that I dont even LIKE the person she is now let alone love her.

I'm extremely upset that my son is going to be exposed to such people as the W and the OP, but fortunaltey in this tate you can get a restraining order where a member of the opposite sex cannot sleep over when a child is present.

I can say I am glad I contacted her work place and advised the boss as to what is going on, let her be humiliated for a change and have to answer for her actions, I did not inform him of anything that was not the truth, when confronted with the truth about the A she has a tendency to freak, cry and deny, not going to happen this time.

Sorry for rambling, venting, time to find myself a life again, this has been 8 months of absolute hell.

Hi Rookie,

I'm sooo sad for you!!! I know how tired you are. It's drains everything right out of you. What do you think about a plan B attempt again? Or even a 180?
Did you say she called the OM 5-6 times a day on the phone while you and your son were on vacation? Do what you feel is right for you and your son now.

Ladysheep

Hi Lady, No she did not call OP while son and I were gone, she called him 5-6 times a day when HE, the OP was on vacation.

There is no problem with plan b right now, because I have no intention of talking to her at all. Like I said earlier, I'm lb'd out, there is still some love for her, as she was before the A, but I dont even like her the way she is now. The only thing at this point that would make me consider calling her, which I wont, is the memory of how she was.

The bit with her not calling our son while we were on vacation except for the one time was the iceing on the cake, if she cant care more for her son than the OP, that is one very sad statement.

I know it is a addiction, but I'm not playing that game anymore, right now I dont feel she is worth the anguish she has brought on this family, and the OP's.

Her A has been played out exactly as this site described it would, when her world finally does crash, the only way I would even consider taking her back is if she called saying she has the counseling sessions lined up, that she quit her job and she wants to move out of the area, and even then I'd have to think about it.

It's pretty bad, the last time I saw her, I could only look at her with disgust.

When I recieved the cell pone records, the very day she was telling me she loved me and I had no reason to doubt her, she called the OP. How low can these people go and expect others to follow.
NO MORE.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
...Her A has been played out exactly as this site described it would, when her world finally does crash, the only way I would even consider taking her back is if she called saying she has the counseling sessions lined up, that she quit her job and she wants to move out of the area, and even then I'd have to think about it.
<hr /></blockquote>And you palyed exactly this site described <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> you stay a bit too long in your plan A ... now you have even a second thought about taking her back even she is willing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

Plan B and lists your ammends for later.

Anyway did you catch any fish ? how about your S ?.

-rh-

red, did'nt spend as much time o the water as I usually do, but, did get a couple walleye, no size though.

Fished the Chippewa flowage for first time, huge body of water I never fished before.

The son and I had a couple long talks, he is putting on a good face, but he is having problems dealing with everything.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
The son and I had a couple long talks, he is putting on a good face, but he is having problems dealing with everything.<hr /></blockquote>I would get IC to help him too. I have conselor for my 2 D and they could see them anytime they want it. I don't want to make mistake dealing with this mess.

-rh-

Hi Rookie,

At this point I don't blame you for starting a plan B. It does sound like all love is going for her. What does she expect? I don't think
it's too late to start the plan B again. We are not perfect when trying in such a grief striken manner anyway, these MB principles. We just get up and try again. Sometimes not really knowing
if we have any strength left emotionally to do it again.

I don't know if this is good advice, but try not to bring up the A again. You have exposed it to all as you should have, confronted her and said all you have to say about it and how you feel. We sometimes wish through all of this it would stop because the pain is unbearable, but sometimes it still doesn't stop, but you gave it a good go. I know this is hard to say, but leave what energy and love you have left to you and your son.

Hopefully later, Rookie, your wife will wake up,
come out of the fog, and be the woman she was
before this craziness happened. It's not guaranteed, but I hope so.

You did the right thing confronting the parents, don't second guess, it gives them a lot to think about.
It doesn't help when parents are enabling.

Ladysheep

Lady, thank you for the kind words.

Yes, I do believe the parents have something to think about, all they have heard was her side of the story, something I am thinking of forewarding to Ripley's believe it or not.

She has completely rewritten our marital history and claims things that I have never seen or heard of before, but, she has to justify her affair. Alot of her family already know what BS she is spouting and I have recieved some very encouraging words of support from them.

I fully expect to be served with divorce papers either this week or next.

My son is who my heart goes out to, she created a hell that he has to live in. But, I am going to go for joint custody, I do want her to have him as much as possible, she ALWAYS relied on me for EVERYTHING, I want to see how she is going to handle it on her own, no more night classes, fingernail appointments or dinners with her friends at night if she has to take care of her son for a change, add in making dinner, household chores, she is in for a rude awakening. I DID IT ALL.

I am going to have to still see her on occasion, due to my son, but contact with her will not be rude, but distant, I have nothing I wish to discuss with her.

I am still very much in pain over this whole issue, but now I keep asking myself how I could have involved myself with someone of such low standards, I simply look at her and the words slut/whore comes to mind.

Rookie,

It's a relief to see someone else with the same thoughts as myself. I don't feel as strongly with the slut stuff, but I certainly wonder how I could have fallen for someone so weak - I remember shortly after getting married saying part of the attraction had been her strength. How wrong could I have been! She just shows all the signs of someone who runs from things instead of facing up to them. In the 7.5 years we've been together, she's made and lost 3 close friends through small disagreements. I really now feel that she's too weak and lacking in principals for me to want her back.

Adam, please dont get me wrong, I still love my wife, the one prior to her A, she ws a loving concerned caring person who went out of her way for people and our marriage.

The woman she became at the start of the A was a manupulative lying cheat, one who could look you in the face with no emotion and lie her [censored] off.

The addiction did that to her, if I could get my W back the way she was, I would truly love her again, but as it stands now, I cnt stand to her her voice as I know she is blaming everything wrong in our marriage on me and that her relationship with the OP has nothing to do with anything, she is living in a fantasy worl that is going to destroy a family and a ten year old boy. I actually cant stand to look at her as she put her own feelings before her sons and I cannot imagine anyone getting lower than that, especially when she it telling me what a good mother is.she has no idea.

Something is going on in her little mind this moring, she has e-mailed me about 4 times, nothing good.

She wants to know about putting the house of for sale and is baiting me for a arguement, I have responded to her, no in a kind light, I just dont care anymore enought to say nothing, I let her know I felst she was a liar a cheat and a person of low moral standing. That she placed her OP before that of her son and family and that they have destroyed tow marriage, two children and two other spouses for their own selfish selfcentered motives.

Rookie,
Man! I wish you had better news. I had high hopes that going away for the week would jar her awake, at least a little.
I wish I could convince you to hang in there, I know that you feel like you are at the end of your rope, but tie a knot in it and hang on!!
Maybe backing off and moving on will turn on the fog lights. I wouldn't be surprised to see her change her tune when she drives by and sees the house on the market! It's amazing what a for sale sign can do.
Too bad you didn't have better luck on the lake. But, as I always say: "A bad day fishing, beats a good day at work!" And I am sure you had fun just spending time with your son.

Maybe the prayers just take more time... I put in many requests for your recovery with the man upstairs!

Take Care,

r0uter

rOuter, thanks, she is very much aware the house if going up for sale as she also is sgining the paperwork for such.

Yep, at the end of my rope, I am very agrivated at the whole situation now and am tired of being the only one that tried, feel like a doormat and am no longer going to take it from her. I know it is against all principles, but I am going to call a spade a spade, let her deal with it. I'm too worn out to put up with any more of her crap......

rookie,
what's a house after all? it's nothing but a thing...a place, a piece of property. it begins and ends nothing.

after reading your story, i'm more concerend about your state of mind...and of course your children...they're the innocent victims in all of this crazyness.

as for your W...she sounds so bitter and angry. i think that both of you might benefit from some time away from each other. i particularly think that you would.

it seems to me that the reality of the situation is just not getting through to her and that's to bad...but here's the thing...you can't have a healthy relationship with out two healthy partners. and i get the feeling that right now, your wife has become toxic to you.

sure you could go on trying but your current efforts don't seem to be meaningful to her. maybe seperation with out any predjudice on your part is what's called for. what i mean is, maybe you should just let her have her way! let her go and be who she wants with who she wants! and you? you should start having a life of your own.

begin enjoying who and what you are. and guess what? at some point in the future, i would bet that she will be plan Aing you!

coach

Coach, you are most correct in the statement that she is toxic to me, the thought of her makes me sick. What she did to OP's family and this family is beyond cruel and simply self serving.

She just called and I really didnt handle it well, simply told her the way she was and the way were were was love in a true form, not a fantasy world as she is currently in. That the OP is toxic to her inthat she was able to put him before her own son, family and everything else that matters in life.

Her response, I will never come back to you, you are too angry, I am, I have to distance myself from her and the OP's insanity, I know where their relationship is going to lead, and I dont think I want to pick up the pieces afterwards.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by coach3530:
 what i mean is, maybe you should just let her have her way! let her go and be who she wants with who she wants! and you? you should start having a life of your own.

begin enjoying who and what you are. and guess what? at some point in the future, i would bet that she will be plan Aing you!

coach<hr /></blockquote>That is great advice Coach. I have been following this thread for sometime now from Rookie and AdamH WS's. Everything they wrote about their WS is true for me also. The same low self esteem, the same lies, the same the selfishness, the same moral and ethical weakness, the same lack of responsibility.

I want my W back also, but not like this. I have been so in love, that I allowed my self esteem to go down the tubes with hers. It is time for me to take care of myself and my daughter. God will have to change my W's heart. I cannot, but I pray for her anyway, whether she comes back or not. She is still my daughter's mother and I still love her.

Well, the house is NOW listed for sale. She wanted to have a open house for the realators on Tues, well, since I've been painting getting it ready, the house right now is no where in shape to be shown till I get a chance to clean it.

I advised her of such, her response is she would do it Sunday if I was not around as she feels threatened. I asked what she meant, she stated she felt physically threatened,,, this gets better by the moment, I blew, and told her she was full of sh*t, I've never laid a hand on her and never would. How much BS can these people come up with, it simply amazes me....

Hi Rookie,

Yep, I don't blame you!!! That was a terrible
accusation, and very untrue. Now she's trying
to make you look like the abusive husband, to
justify her affair. I guess she couldn't
come up with anything bad enough, huh?
Don't let it get to you, but I wouldn't give
her the time of day right now.

I don't know if this sounds like a good idea,
but could you get some friends to come and
clean the house? I don't know, but I wouldn't
ask her for anything at this point. N/C, except
for discussing child's issues.

Can you sell the house without any discussions
with her? If you do have to talk w/ her at any
time, I would advise you to have a friend w/ you every time you speak to her in person. Just because of the accusation she has made. She's
playing very mean now. And you need a witness, at all times with you, just so she can't make accusations again. Do you know what I mean? If anything, it will embarrass her. And if she asks why you always have someone w/ you when talking to her, let her know you have done this because of the untrue accusation she has made against you. No more emails, possibly phone calls with her recorded? What do ya think?

Ladysheep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
... I blew ....<hr /></blockquote>as expected ... you should put NC and go into plan B. Even now it is not too late. You would waste you plan A ... now have nothing too loose to try plan B. Actually you gain by not getting hurt.

Arguing or try to talk sense to WS is futile. WS's script calls for "justification" of their A otherwise they have to admit that they are doing something very selfish. The outrageous claims are the indication that they feel guilty and not happy with their choice and they try to get you agree with their choice !.

-rh-

Morning Lady/redhat,

Yep, good idea bout having someone around whenever she is. If someone is not available to be here if she is, I will simply make sure that it is in the driveway infront of the house.

Nope, wont tape the phone calls, because what I have been doing is hanging up on her, I do pick up the phone as it could be my son calling, I let her start to say whatever it is she is going to, and I simply hangup, there have been a time or two I made comments about her standards, but at this point I dont care what she thinks.

I have a appointment with my attorney on Sat., I am not going to file, going to let her, but I do have to drag the divorce out for awhile as I am covered under her health insurance at work and once the D is finalized I wont have it. Being that I had cancer las tyear, no one will cover me for at least 5 years of being cancer free.

It's been a extremely rough couple of years, I sure hope in God's plan there is some happiness for me.

Hi Rookie,

Yeah, you do have to have insurance. Do you have ins. at your work? If you do, have you
talked with someone there about your situation?
Tell them the predicament you are in.

Ladysheep

Lady, The W and I worked for the same place, I retired in June and went under her ins. policy.

I did fill out the paperwork for my ins. to continue on my own plan as I anticipated a divorce situation and I knew I needed the coverage, only problem is, the W is the person responcible for handling the ins. paperwork and did not turn it in. I have called the HR dept. and explained the sitch to them, the are looking into it to see if I can get my coverage reinstated.

She has been a real sweetheart through this whole thing.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
I have a appointment with my attorney on Sat., I am not going to file, going to let her, but I do have to drag the divorce out for awhile as I am covered under her health insurance at work and once the D is finalized I wont have it. Being that I had cancer las tyear, no one will cover me for at least 5 years of being cancer free.<hr /></blockquote>Ask her personnel department, I think you could have Cobra for 18 months after D but you can't have other health ins. available to you. Ask your lawyer to put medical coverage as part of the financial settlement.

Actually if you lay low, stay away from LB, it is to your advantage !. A will end, not now not yet but it will. Reality have to be injected to A to test it.

BTW Have you given her plan B letter ? otherwise what you are doing is LB by not talking to her. You can't be NC w/o plan B!.

-rh-

Oh gees, I hope it will be reinstated.

So do I lady,

I just recieved a e-mail from her telling what a GOOD mother and a GOOD person she is, I couldnt help but respond tto that one..

Told her a GOOD mother doesnt teach her child to lie, cheat and copmromise their morals for self serving purposes, to a ten year old. A GOOD person would not abandon her husban after a fight with cancer. A GOOD person would realize that family comes before a boyfriend. Advised her to be a GOOD person andtake the time to read about the devasting affects of a A on the people called her family.

I know, but I had to respond to that, told her I loved the person SHE WAS, not who she is now and asked her not to contact me anymore with her justifications for her affair.

I know it fell on deaf ears, but I'm getting to the point I dont want to hear the BS anymore.

because what I have been doing is hanging up on her, I do pick up the phone as it could be my son calling, I let her start to say whatever it is she is going to, and I simply hangup,
Plan B (which it seems you are not in, are you?) is not about being rude. Just hanging up IS rude and is not inline with any MB principles.

Just say, "Son is not here" or "please read the Plan B letter. Goodbye."

You're right Rookie, at what you said to her. You've said it a million times, it is still falling on deaf ears.

I know, but I had to respond to that, told her I loved the person she was, not who she is now and asked her not to contact me anymore w/ her justifications for her affair.
Good job, that was to the point! It puts it right back in her lap.

Ladysheep

redhat.

I did contact the HR department. I would have cobra for 18 months after the D.

The problem is that I did apply for my OWN ins. which would continued for life as long as I made the payments, but the W did not turn in the paperwork, this in itself could present a problem for her, since she is still a employee of the city and she still has the responcibility to hand in said paperwork as that is her job.

I did send her a plan B letter awhile back, and basically I did do the same this morning when I told her to stop contacting me with the BS and that I still loved the person she was.

I know the A is going to crash and burn, but this woman has dragged me through 8 mos. of this BS so far, I really am not sure as to what I would do if she decided to work on the M, I would definetely take a hard line as far a compliance with the 4 rules and she would have to quit her job.

I've said it before, her parents are moving 9-27-03, life is not going to be so good when she has to take care of everything and wont have the time to do what she wants. The only family she really had was mine, and one cousin of her own, but the cousin was burned by a exwife in the same fashion mine is doing now and he is very irate at her and has asked me to continue to be part of their circle. She will not be able to bring the OP anywhere where they would feel comfortable.
His family has rejected him over the A. All they will have is themselves, that is going to burn out real quick once reality of everyday life sets in.

Rookie what is contacting screaming angry outbursts at your wife getting you? NOTHING but more angry. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE CONTROL YOURSELF! You are feeding right into her hands AGAIN! You said you wanted the BS to stop. Well YOU CAN STOP IT! Don't answer the phone, don't reply to emails NO CONTACT WHAT SO EVER! The more angry you get at her the more she can say SEE HOW DANGEROUS HE IS, THAT IS WHY I LEFT! You are giving her foggy brain reason to continue in her LA LA LAND! You keep saying you don't care, but you do. It is obvious. You said she is not setting a good example to your 10 yr old son. Neither are you with your anger. He may not be around to see it but kids aren't as unaware as we would like to believe. Please go NO CONTACT. You want her to hurt, that is very understandable but as you said anything and everything you say is like talking to a wall. She doesn't see it, she only see's your anger and she feeds off to justify her actions. NO CONTACT NO CONTACT NO CONTACT! Don't let her reel you into any more emails or discussions!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
redhat.

I did contact the HR department. I would have cobra for 18 months after the D.

The problem is that I did apply for my OWN ins. which would continued for life as long as I made the payments, but the W did not turn in the paperwork, this in itself could present a problem for her, since she is still a employee of the city and she still has the responcibility to hand in said paperwork as that is her job.<hr /></blockquote>Yes, actually Corba is the last resort. However you might not be able to get affordable one on your own. My sugesstion is to push for health coverage under her responsibility if you have to end this M. Talk to your lawyer.

You should be in plan B ... strict ones and let her face her A "alone". Hang in there, big bro. you could outlast this A. Just sit back and watch it like soap opera.

-rh-

sorry but i feel the need to interject!

the fact that she actually made a statement concerning her physical fear of you is a huge RED FLAG! be very craeful here...VERY!

there is no telling how far aperson will go to get the upper hand! i think that you should march right down to your local police station and go on record immediatly....tell them that you are afraid that your wife may make unfounded alligations concerning your fitness as a parent, as a husband and as to your alledged "violent" nature.

tell them exactly what the situation is and ask if you should seek or if in fact need an OOP. you know...and order of protection doesn't just protect you against violent acts. it prevents you from being put into a risky and questionable situation. do not be alone with this woman at this time...please! she is sounding very sick.

really...you must disconnect from her for your own good. she is sucking you down to her level and no good can come from this kind of interaction.

please be very carefull.
coach

Coach, was a police Sgt. for 28 years, am very, very familiar with the order of protection and how it is implemented in this state. please, dont take this as me being a smart [censored].

Here, only a person being verbally harrassed or physically harrassed can get a order of protection. If I went to the local PD, really wouldnt matter much at all.

My best protection at this point is simply to avoid her contact. If I have to talk to her it will only be in public with my hands in my pocket.

She tried that crap a few weeks back at my son's football practice, she shows up, I go to pick up my folding chair and she flinched back acting like I was threatening her. I immediatley let go of the chair (I was approx 5ft from her)there were no threatening gestures made at all, This was infront of a group of people, I put my hands in my pockets and asked her what the hell was wrong with her.

I do know where this is going.

Funny thing today though, the OP's wife called her 8 YOA son was in the car with her, he is familiar with what is going on between his father and my W, he tells his mother, the OP's wife, that dad told him he is NOT in love with my W enough to marry her and he is not going to, the son mentioned my wife by her first name. Seems like someone's bubble might get burst. I hope it hurts like hell when it happens.

One thing I did forget, the HR department sent me the paperwork to reinstate my insurance, THEY are aware of the A and the problems in the marriage and are going to manipulate the date on the insurance paperwork to reflect that I did submit for my ins. at the time of my retirement.

Seems they dont want any problems because of a W having a A with another employee, will cost me 400 a month though, but, that is a price that has to be paid.

Hi Rookie, that's good you're getting the insurance. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And it's better than the cost of Cobra!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Please stay away from wife, I know it's hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ladysheep

The W sent me a e-mail this morning, she wants to meet me at football pratice to talk. I dont think so,,,I didnt respond to her e-mail. I am a asst. coach and at practice I will not leave the field and put myself in a position for her to make any claims. Besides that, I am emotionally not in a position to talk to her without letting my emotions take over, there fore I will not speak with her now.

OP's wife called, she wants to get together to go over the cell phone records I have. We are going to do it Sat. Nothing is going on between us at all. I did tell her to dress to the nines, put on some perfune and make sure that her H notices.

He did place a caller ID in a hidden location which the W found, she asked him about it, he told her he wanted to know how often her and I were talking.

We only speak in regards to our spouses and what they are doing, We have their actions down pat and they really cant sneak as much as they think.

Nothing is going on between us at all. I did tell her to dress to the nines, put on some perfune and make sure that her H notices.
Are you just looking for trouble then?

Not at all coach, I just want her H to think she is getting over him and going on with her life.

I did the same with my W a couple weeks ago and it sent her up a wall.

I have no intentions of having a relationship with his W at all, this is just a head game for him, something for him to think about. I am going with her along with my son age 26 and daughter and her husband.

I have discussed it with the OP's W and told her that there were no intentions at all, she agrees.

Sorry Chris, I was responding to you not coach.

I did send the W a e-mail also this morning stating that unless it is about our son, I did not want to speak with her,

It was a shorter version of the original plan b letter I sent before, I did state I would speak with her when she ended her affair and considered working on the marriage.

MB is not about playing games and trying to make the ws think something is going on. In fact, you make sure they know (in the Plan B letter) you are committed to marriage and are NOT acting single.

By telling her to get dolled up, you ARE not following MB principles.

Chris, My W and the OP have no idea that she is seeing me to go over the phone records. The intention for for HER husband.

I have not dated anyone, emotionally I am no where near being ready for that.

I did do the dress up routine that one night to see her reaction.

I did see somewhere here, that you should keep em guessing, beleive it was in the 180. I havent done anything like that again to her, being my W.

As always I appreciate the advice, sometimes I do misinterpet the intentions of some of this.

Chris, My W and the OP have no idea that she is seeing me to go over the phone records. The intention for for HER husband.
I understand.
You were asking her to do it to get a reaction out of her h. Even though she may not be familiar with MB principles, you telling her to do this for this reason goes directly against MB and is not a good thing for a relationship.

If she were to dress normally like this, then it would not be a problem. But doing it to try and make him jealous is not good.

Also, sometimes a ws will try & get the bs to date so they can justify their actions. So if he even thinks she is seeing someone, even casually, then it may have the opposite affect of pushing him farther away from her.

Keep everything above the table.

Hi Chris,

I think I saw the getting all dolled up as one of the 180 steps, even if it's to go to the store. Basically to get her H to wonder.

Ladysheep

Hi Rookie,

Good move. Probably shouldn't talk to her at all
at the football game. Keep your distance from her there at all times. Remember her last false accusation was at a previous football game a few weeks ago. What are you going to do if she walks up to you and tries talking to you there?
It would be good to have a plan of how to deal w/
that. What do ya think?

Ladysheep

I realize that. But trying to mislead is not part of MB priniples. I don't belive it is part of Divorce Busting 180 either.

The 180 is simply doing things opposite of what the you have been doing, because what you have been doing hasn't had any affect.
If you have been calling them all the time, don't call them.
If you sit at home all day, go out and do something.
But again, it is not to give the appearance that you are dating (or even thinking about it.)

I did give that impression of going out once, did not do it again.

I did e-mail her back, told her I would not talk to her unless it pertained to my son or finances and that she should not come to football.

I did add that I would talk to her when the A is over and OP is out of the picture. I also added I loved her as she ws before the A.

Sorry to post so often, my way of venting and keeping a journal as to what is going on.

The realetors are to start showing the house tomorow.

My W, when she moved out took her personel belonngs and the sons, but left a immense amount of other items, such as her old clothing, hygeine products, jewelry and things that have been in the basement since we've been here, 12 years.

I have been fixing some of the rooms up, painting and such and havent had much time to clean, which I have been keeping up with, but not to the point I would like to show the home to sell it.

I looked into getting my son into therapy a couple weeks ago and he will start soon, next week.

I have football with him daily, Mon-Turs, 5P to 7:30 Pm., by the time I drive him to his mom's place and get home it's 8:15 Pm.

Seems like the W forgot she has any responcibilites at all. I guess that is what a good mother and good person (as she put it in a e-mail the othere day) does, is abandon everyone but her boyfriend.

No need to apologize for posting because venting here is better than venting to your W.

What are your plans for the weekend?

TMCM
Tomorow I have to clean, big time, to show the house over the weekend. I will probably put all of her belongings together and leave them in the driveway of her parents home, cut the grass, change the oil on the car.

Saturday I am getting together with the OP's wife, she wants to reveiw the cell phone records that I have of the W's cell. I am then going to the county fair with my daughter, her husband and my older son. The Op's W wants to give him the impression that she is dating and she is also going. Believe me when I say that I have NO INTEREST in her and I have told her such, that we could go just to get away from the insanity for awhile. I used to work with her and have known her for quite awhile.

Besides, with my kids there, no one could make any accusations. Saturday is the OP's birthday and it is his day to have the son, the OP's W wants him to have the son so the W (mine) and him cant go out to celebrate the b-day, they will have to do it on another day, but....

I sent her a e-mail asking her to pick up her items. She claims she will not be here if I am.

She also felt it necesay to tell me that the divorce papers hould be in the mail tomorow.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />rookie:

"Believe me when I say that I have NO INTEREST in her and I have told her such, that we could go just to get away from the insanity for awhile. I used to work with her and have known her for quite awhile."<hr /></blockquote>I beleive you rookie, but I can't say the same for the OM's W. She may end up developing the warm fuzzies for you if you are not careful in observing boundaries such as not going out with her often. So be very careful with this very vulnerable woman.

So, since she said that she has filed for a divorce, what would be the best course of action, besides contacting my attorney.

Should I just let it play out or is there something else I can do.

I am lost here folks........

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
I am lost here folks........<hr /></blockquote>Since you ask this is my suggestion 2 U:
1. Strick plan B, no but or if.
2. Stay away from OMW, only exchange Info.
3. Talk to your lawyer.
4. Lay low.

-rh-

ditto to what redhat said.

My attorney, who was a friend of mine while I was on the PD and I met this morning.

I did ask him to drag the divorce out for as long as possible in the event the W has a change of heart. First question he asks is why would you want someone back who has had a affair, your just waiting to have it happen again, this is from a divorce attorney.

None the less, even though I have anger towards her for what she has done, with the house for sale, seeing the attorney and such I can still say there are still feelings of love for her.

After all the crap I dont know how that is possible, but I know somewhere behind the fog is still the woman I married and love.

Funny, while this all was going on, she told me that her feelings have changed for me in the last couple of years, I know fog talk, I found a letter she had written to me a couple years back, it was a love letter in the truest form, she stated how much I meant to her and that I was her world and how much her family meant to her, this was after 13 years of marriage and she still felt that way.

Amazes me how when the OP came into the picture our marital history was changed.

I would not wish the feelings this situation has caused on my worst enemy.

If I have to, I will get over it, but I know there will always be a void there that my W has left.

Good move rookie in telling your attorney to stall the divorce, not just because of any hopes of her seeing the light and wanting to rebuild the M, but also because it will give you time to continue to heal and if the time does come for you to divorce her and move on, you won't be haunted by any leftover feelings of love afterwards.

Rookie I'm almost certain that there will be another talk with your WW in the near future, although there shouldn't be because you're in Plan B. If and when that next talk occurs, consider conveying to her the following:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Wife every day that you continue having contact with the OM, is one more day that more of my love for you DIES. Eventually all of my love for you will die and I will no longer have any desire to remain married to you. That is NOT an ultimatum but a statement of FACT. These 'talks' do nothing but speed up that loss of love. Please DO NOT contact me again<hr /></blockquote>Hopefully that will get the message across in her mind as to the importance of her observing and respecting your Plan B no contact.

Funny, I got a call from the WW last night, I let her do most of the talking.

She states that since I contacted her work there is NO WAY she can ever come back to the marriage.

She also told me what a good person and mother she is. She does this pretty regularlt latley. I guess if you put the OP infront of your son, marriage and everything els this does qualify you as GOOD, if she keeps telling herself this, someday she might actually believe this.

Meantime, I'm stuck with showing the house for sale, keeping is in show condition, taking care of our son all day and her responcibilities are nill.

Vent.

While I'm not telling you to discount her words, I would question why she felt the need to call you and tell you these things. I get the impression that she is having a personal crisis where she knows that she has NOT been a good person and a good mother and she was trying to convince herself that she was by calling you up.

TMCM, that was my thoughts exactly, someone who repeats that they are a good person over and over is only trying to convice themselves.

Other point I noted after the last message was that if she was so humiliated by work being contacted about the A, how is it possible that she can still work there with everyone knowing about the A, people would have much more respect for her if she tried to work her problems in the marriage out rather than continuing to be involved with a married man. But it is one excuse after another.

She knows in her heart what she is doing is wrong, otherwise, why keep repeating I am a good person/mother. I dont buy it.

"thou doth protest to much!" Willy B (not to be confused with Willie Nelson, LOL) said it 500 years ago and it's as true now as it was then.

here's the thing though. why are you speaking with her at all? why is she calling you? 'cause she's afraid of loosing you! i'd bet anything on it!

man....what you need to do now is disconnect! just do it! if you think that you've herd the end of this thing from her you are sooooo wrong! this lady isn't finished with you yet...not by a long run.

if you stay cool now...showing yourself to be a mature man ready to move on with his life...she will be back. the question is will *YOU* still want her?

coach

Coach, being alone for the last month plus has given me time to think about her and how our marriage was.

Prior to the A, she was a good W, after the start of the A, I was like something that would get scraped off the bottom of her shoe.

Right now if she was to walk through the door and said she wanted to work things out, which is next to impossible, I really would have to say I love her, but I have my doubts about reliving the last 8 months.

My son was telling me today that everything is not all roses at the in-laws.

FIL is very upset about what is going on and has been having words with the MIL, he was in tears as he drove my son here today. Maybe it just dawned on him that they are aiding in the A by taking their daughter in.

Son also added that mom said that she broke up with the the OP, time will tell.

Me, Just took the son and the dog for a long, long walk today, took hom to football and was happey to just think things out for a change with no pressure.

Your FIL may be appreciating how his D's selfishness has affected his grandson's life.

As far as your WW ending her affair with the OM, I would not give too much credence until there is positive proof that this is the case.

Reality bites, doesn't it?

TMCM, yep, seems like everyone involved in this thing has been affected, all but her. I think some day quite soon her world is going to come crashing down. I hope it hurts like hell.

If it hurts like hell , then she will certainly come to u

I just dont know why these married women come crashing at the OMs feet,former scum bags (former OM)like me ???????

Just received the divorce papers in the mail, according to them she HAS made attempts at reconcilliation, wish she would have let me know when that was.

Made accusations of mental abuse, guess asking her to stop screwing around with another man is abuse.

Damn, I so pissed right now I cant think straight.

Venting

Well, dang it rookie, how could you be so mean? Look back to when you planned your wedding together. Did you write out your own vows, to make them personal? Put in special prayers, promises, psalms?

And in your vows, how was the subject of extra marital affairs dealt with? Were you to be tolerant and accepting of each other's "special friends?" You weren't?

WHAT? You promised to love each other and forsake all others? How narrowminded, medieval and mentally cruel. No WONDER she sees you as not being willing to reconcile. You brute.

(Forgive the sarcasm.) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh no rookie, feel sad for you. Don't sign them papers. They are false reasons for the divorce!

Take it to your lawyer and see what he thinks and advises! Your lawyer might contact hers.

I would be p'd too!!!

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

rookie ... the only choice you have now is either drag it or let it proceed. It is your personal choice. If you want Dv to proceed b/c of you are mad ... it is your own making to stay in plan A too long, it is not a good reason. Cool off and see it in financial and legal ramification w/o considering reconsiliation or not with her. Then to your lawyer about her papers.

Bellevue, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Does WW think about the marriage vow when she pull her panty down ?.

-rh-

I really dont know which way I am going to approach this whole thing at the moment. I am going to talk to my attorney again very soon as I have to get him the paperwork I recieved.

She did call, I asked her what she wanted, she states she doesnt want this to be nasty, I asked her why she put in the paperwork what she did, her repsonse, was it is just a matter of the PROCESS, with that I felt like I was going to explode, I simply hung up... if she were a guy, I'd kick her [censored] right now, but,,,,, I know she isnt worth it or the OP

Rookie,

I know you're extremely angry right now, and I don't blame you. She has betrayed you every way possible. I think that was a pretty nasty thing she put on them divorce papers. And she doesn't want things to be nasty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

In all the anger rookie, pray a lot, and I'll be praying too.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

rookie,

Now it is legal matter and let the proffesional handel it. You are in plan B or supposely so ... You should not entertain her. Just look at the caller id and let the vm pick it up.

-rh-

I agree redhat!!

Rookie: I too recieved the Marriage Dissolution Questionnaire from my wife that the lawyer sent her. Pretty basic just lots of questions. She wants my opinion on it and to fill in my part of it. Not sure what I want to do about it. Need to talk to a lawyer about it. Looking like a divorce will be forced down my throat whether I am for it or not. I am standing for my marriage and will ignore it as long as is possible. I went through the questionnaire at legalmatch.com and said I was looking for a christian lawyer in my area that was for saving marriages and not the almighty quick buck (didn't mention the buck part though). I hope to find out more in the next few days. Going to be a long night of prayers tonight and the other forum (familylife.com) is down today. So what else could go wrong.

Lord please soften the hearts of rookie's wife and my wife and renew their spirits so they can see and can realize that what they are doing is wrong and come to you for help. Please lord, time is running out for both of us and we are in need of a miracle from you. Please help heal rookie and myself and give us strength and guidance through these troubling times that the evil one is throwing our way. Thank you lord.
Amen

redhat, lady tim, thanks guys, it's people like you all that keep ones sanity in place at times like this.

Yep,lady that was about as low as she could get putting in the mental abuse part, but she forgot one thing, that she is going to have to state what the abuse was about, and that is when I get my chance to explain that she had a affair 3 mos after cancer surgery had a affair ongoing for 8 mos., all the time saying she loved me, made love to me (cept for the last two months) and then call her boyfriend. Yep, I will plead absolutley guilty if they say asking her to quit her affair is mental abuse.

red, yep to you also, She called today saying she wanted the divorce to be amicable, told her to tell her attorney and hung up.

Tim, I think that prayer was very good and thank you, I do pray often, by simply speaking to the lord in my own way.

My prayer is also as follows, Lord give her the compassion to understand what damage she has done to her children, parents, her family and mine. The lives she is destroying and the example she is setting for our ten year old, please let him ignore her ignorance and lack of compassion for others.

Let him understand I did all I could to save our marriage while she did nothing but carry on with her boyfriend without concern for him.

Let her understand that not everyone is acceptable of a adultress with no morals or character.

Let her boyfriend cheat on her and teach her the meaning of pain and the meaning of a broken heart.

and Lord, let the zipper on her pants get stuck so she can keep em up for a change.

She stated in the divorce papers that she attempted reconciliation, when she called a second time I couldnt help but ask her if it was the day she called him one time or was it the day she called him ten times, and hung up on her again. At this point I am not concerned about her feelings at all.

I still miss and love the woman I married, the one she is now I dont recognize, respect or love at all.

I have taken the stance when she calls to only talk about our son and nothing else, when her tone gets to be disrespectful I am simply telling her I am no longer a issue for her to treat like crap, save that for your boyfriend and hang up on her.

I know it sounds juvenile, but I feel much better not letting her treat me in a disrepectful and humiliating manner.

Hi Rookie,

I know it sounds juvenile, but I fell much better not letting her treat me in a disrespectful + humiliating manner.
That's good rookie, your getting stronger.
Keep those boundaries up!!

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

I know this sounds stupid, but with her filing for the divorce, I've pretty much given up hope.

Is it OK for me to start dating. I have been approached, but also have been hesitant.

Again I know how I feel about my wife the way she USED to be, there is no sign that she is coming out of the fog.

Why would I wait at this point to start enjoying life and companionship again, even a casual date.

rookie,

To quote Yogi, "it ain't over until it is over." Do you believe marriage is serious stuff and should be honored? If so, then you already know the answer; you are married so you cannot date.

You never know how life will turn out,but what I do know is that if you do the right things for the right reasons, you never get caught by surprise events. You will sleep better at night knowing you have respected yourself and what you value, until what you value isn't there.

I understand your interest in dating, and your feelings of wanting to give up. It is very likely true that it will end, but rookie, you never know what life has in store for you. You will want to look you child in the eye and be able to explain to him/her what marriage is really supposed to mean.

So I suggest you not do that, for yourself and for what you do value. Just my thought. It sort of like an honest person is honest when no one is watching. Well, you surely have no one watching (ie your W), BUT...

God Bless,

JL

[ August 22, 2003, 06:22 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]

The problem with dating when you are still married is that while it may be great for the ol' ego, there is the danger of letting it go further and establishing a very serious and committed relationship with another woman. Not only that but because you said "I still miss and love the woman I married" there is still the possibility that your WW may come out of the fog and become once more the woman you married, and if you are involved in a serious relationship with another woman, it will be like the roles having been reversed where you are now going to be the WH and your W the BW, and the madness will repeat itself once more. So be forewarned about the dangers of 'dating' while still being married.

Thanks for the advice, been a very confusing time.

Sometime the lonliness really gets to a person and when someone does show interest, it is hard to say no when you have been living in limbo for 8 mos. with no indication that things will ever get better.

Talked to the W's close friend tonight, she and the OP are planning on moving in together, when she did not know, but again, nothing to indicate that she is even thinking about salvaging the marriage.

Rookie I most certainly can relate to the great feeling you're experiencing of when a woman shows interest in you especially when you've been emotionally starved for so long by your WW. But look at your WW for a minute and realize how easy it is to pick a loser to get involved with. The OM is an alcoholic who treated his W extremely shi***y for many years and is unlikely to change his ways just because he's gotten involved with your WW. If it's true what your friend said about your WW and the OM moving in together, I cannot envision a worst payback than for her to live with such a man and in a few months time she's going to rue the day that she chose to get herself involved with him and destroy her marriage. So learn from your WW's mistakes and be very careful in not letting your feelings get the best of you by leading you to get involved with someone you are better off not knowing at all.

One other thing the W's friend told me.

The W's mother at the same time I had prostate cancer was diagnosed with breast cancer. I had the radical surgery, which caused impotency, MIL had a scope type surgery to remove the tumor and chemo.

MIL was just diagnosed with cancer in both breasts. She now faces having them both removed.

I feel bad in that a couple weeks ago I had asked her if, when she was diagnosed intially with the cancer and had to have her breast removed and her husband proceeded to have a A on her how she would react?.

MIL told me I used the cancer as a crutch, that the depression I went through for having cancer, being left impotent should not have had that much of a affect on me to cause that severe of a depression.

I thought at the time how ignorant could this woman be, cancer, impotent and the W having a A and I was not to be depressed?

Even though these people have offended me with such statements and their support for the W while she engaged in a A. I find myself praying for her.

I did send the wife a e-mail stating that if she, tyhe MIL, needs a ride to the doctor as both FIL and W work, I would do so and that I would keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

I also advised the W that now would be a good time to get her butt to church and start praying.

Yeah Rookie, I agree w/ JL, and Coffeeman, it wouldn't be a good idea to date until divorce, if it happens. It really would make you feel
as guilty as your W is at this point. You would
have to live w/ the thought that you dated also
when still married. We just want you to keep your honest, integrity, and self-respect in tact.

As far as sending the e-mail reguarding MIL to W, you should not have done that. I think it was a very generous, and supportive of you, but you should have sent the e-mail directly to MIL, it would mean more to her. I think your just looking for ways to still talk to W, but it will only hurt you in the long run. I feel for your MIL also, my mom had breat cancer and died of it, after it spread to other parts of her body,
even after chemo, radiation, and removal of breast. It was very sad. The chemo and radiation made her sicker than the cancer itself. She gave up on chemo and radiation after she found that the cancer had come back in her jaw and forehead, and she stopped going to her appt's and did not tell anyone she was not going, and died.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

hey rook,
guilt is one commodity that is never in short supply...so why don't you just back off and give yourself a break? your MI has her opinions and so what? evrey person responds differently and feels differently when faced with such horrible circumstances. her way is no more valid then yours...it's just her way and my G-D bless her.

my prayer for you would be more than just good health...it would be that you love yorself more and criticize yourself less.

yes you need to be mindful of your faults, learn from your mistakes and try to always improve on who you are but that doesn't mean that what you are now is something bad or evil.

as for dating, i would say not to...even if for no other reason then envolving a new woman in your life right now, really wouldn't really be the thing to do.

as for the divorce...please remember that divorce is really only a word...just as marriage is only a word. it's how you live the idea that counts.

my point is that divorce doesn't have to be the end...it's only one more phase in the relationship. a relationship that will end only when both parties end it.

good luck.
coach

Guys/Gals, thanks for the support, the dating issue has really bugged me lately.

When I go out with all the friends as I did tonight, they are with their wives and I feel like odd man out. Watching people interact as husband and wife is really depressing, some of these people I have know for over 35 years and have grown up with them, so not going out with them as couples is not a option. They have been very supportive and I appreciate that.

Yep, I do agree that if I do go out with someone I would still feel like I was cheating on the W, strange, but after putting up with her fooling around for the last 8 mos., treating me like something that you'd scrape off the bottom of your shoe, her plans to move in with th OP, I thought that I would be able to go out with a clear mind, feeling no guilt.

I also would think it unfair to date someone as I would'nt be myself, my mind would be else where and I would be comparing all to my W as I knew her before this crap started.

Sooo many thoughts, thought that this whole thing would become easier when the divorce papers were served on me. It just became more of conflict in my mind.

I did take the motorcycle out ALL day, burned up better than a tank of gas and did alot of thinking. Prognosis on marriage, extremely bad, pride in myself and integrity, still intact, loneliness, overwhelming.

Hi Rookie,

Yeah, I know the loneliness is the worst of it right now. The good thing, is that you do have
friends that are supportive. When I was single I
felt the same way, and sometimes there could be
a crowded room of people, and I would still be
lonely. Some days more lonelier that others.

I know this might be difficult, but maybe making
some new goals now might help. Things you have wanted to do all your life, but couldn't because things got in the way. Just something to think about.

I pray the pain will stop for you, and may the Lord bring very special people to you to fill those lonely times.

Ladysheep

Lady, I dont know you, but people like you are very special to me. Without the likes of you and others, I dont think I could make it through this.

It is always grat to hear others perspective on these issues who are thinking with clear heads.

I know what you mean about being in the crowded room, was like last night, I am surrounded by people I've know almost my entire life, people that know everything about me and me about them, but you still feel like you are there by yourself.

I know the biggest part of this is the betrayal part by the wife and the nonchalant attitude she has taken in regards to having a signigicant other.

I feel like the 15 years we shared was nothing but a lie. I am mortified that at the time I needed her the most, she found someone else. I never understood the dynamics of cheating and never will, or at least if I do understand it, I will never accept the theories of it.

It definetely is the most self centered, selfish thing one could ever do to another that they have shared their life with. The one that cheats is incapable of any compassion towards another and I truly feel incapable of loving someone other than themselves and their own needs/wants.

Hi Rookie,

I feel like the 15 yrs we shared was a lie. I am mortified that at the time I needed her the most, she found someone else. I never understood the dynamics of cheating and never will, or at least if I do understand it, I will never accept the theories of it.
Me either Rookie. And I have a deep feeling your W is really going to regret it someday, when she is all alone because if OP did it to his wife, it's almost sure to happen to her.
I don't know how people can live w/ themselves knowing they caused so much pain.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Rookie it's good to vent and show us how you feel about what's happening in your life BUT be very careful that you don't get stuck in an emotional rut that will poison you in the long run. Beleive it or not, it is your resentment and your bitterness for your WW that are your greatest enemies to your total wellbeing. If you want to get well, you have to make the choice to do so for it won't happen on its own. How do you do that? By striving to forgive your WW. It is NOT going to be easy but it is worthwhile for it will be YOU and not your WW that will be the main beneficiary of your forgiveness. If you pray to God to grant you his gift to forgive your WW, I beleive that you will be able to achieve it.

I agree Coffeeman, forgiveness will come in time. Rookie is in the anger stage. Next will be foregiveness, then last is acceptance.
I went through the anger stage quite a while, and
even had to have pychotherapy during that time.
My soul was so damaged and wounded. It was horrible. Then forgiveness came about a yr later, then acceptance. It was not an easy journey through it all, but I definitely felt better when forgiveness came.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Rookie,

I have been posting here for 14 months....TMCM knows my whole story...alcoholic OM and WW...the list is endless. He took me under his wing...and I trusted him because our experiences were very similar...he knew what how advise me I would listen carefully to his advice...he has defined a disciplined path for you...I followed his advice...and it was successful for me...stay the course....you are in good hands with this very knowledgeable gentleman.
I am on a solid path now and I am feeling much better...close to breaking out of my shell. BOTTOM LINE : Continue to work on you...DO NOT date...wait...I have been temteed too...I hiave rrefused to give in until I know I am ready...if you are confused about YOUR readiness...you are not ready...avoid adding more fuel to the fire.

**WARNNING** The following post has sexual content that may offend some people. If you are easily offended, please do not read any further.

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Rookie I talked to my wife recently and I asked her to give me ,as much as she can, her unbiased opinion as to whether a man with erectile dysfunction can still sexually satisfy a woman. She told me that she can't speak for all women but it is her experience and that of the vast majority of her female friends and relatives that the answer is YES. She said that while intercourse can be a very intimate and nice experience, it can also be a very emotionally hollow act if there is no affection to accompany it. According to her, intercourse without affection can make most women feel like they've been raped. In addition she said that intercourse, in terms of pleasure, is highly overrated and if truth be known, she said that oral sex is vastly superior. She told me that when she and her friends touched on the subject of oral sex, she told them that I was a very enthusiastic practicioner and one of her married friends asked her if she would allow me to give lessons to her H, to which all of them, including my wife, almost fell out of their chairs with laughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My point in telling you all of this is that while we men view our erectile function as extremely important, the vast majority of women do not view it as such.

Gregg, how are things for you?, have not heard from you in awhile.

TMCM, yep, dysfuntion is a major head game, but there is medical help, not viagra, in the form of a shot, sounds crude, but it does work.

Did go for another long ride on the bike today, this one by myself, stopped in a town with a fetival I rode through that I have never been to before, sat back, had a few non-alcohlic beers (still love the taste) and rode back, good for the mental health, back country roads at 70-75 will clear the head out a bit.

Even though this has been going on for awhile, I still cant beleive it is actually happening.

rookie,

Keep fillin that tank sooner or later you will end up in west coast ... in time for Bay Area Picnic at the SF Zoo. San Francisco Zoo that is ... LOL.

I saw your post, keep it cool man. You are in angry stage of 5 greifing, it is normal. How ever don't stay too long in there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Use your anger to revenge on her A ... by living well and thrive to better yourself.

-rh-

Rookie :
Things are progressing...filed for D three weeks ago...WW probably got them this past week (my attorney sent me copies and received them on the 18th)..I have thrown in the towel mentally..because there just was 0 progress...and then more drunken phone calls..I had had enough...she probably isn't surprised by this..but it is of no importance to me how she feels.......by the way..glad you went out to get some fresh air..keep going...long road..but it does get easier with time

redhat, been ridding most of my life, doing a roadtrip to Calf. has always been a dream of mine. With kids, wife and work that was never possible. Nothing at this point holding me back, at least till the house is sold.

I know it is going to take time to get over the anger portion of this, I do blieve as long as the divorce in progress it is going to be very difficult to end that.

Gregg, I know this might be cold, but I wish my wife was a alcoholic, at least then I could rationalize her behavior, to realize she proceeded with her A while sober, with a clear mind just makes matters worse in my thought process.

Good luck Gregg, at least WE can say we tried to salvage our marriages, these woman should hang their heads in shame for what they have done to the families THEY CLAIM TO LOVE.

Seems like part of Plan B might be working.

When we communicate by e-mail concerning the son, I always sign off with th elike of, Your loving husband, will always love you and the likes.

She calls this morning stating I should get over her as she cannot come back as I told everyone about her A and she would be too humiliated to face these people.

I dont address our relationship in our conversations but I had to address this issue. I explained that she was not the only person in the marriage that was humiliated by her affair.

She was the person who moved out and had the support of her parents and the OP, I on the other hand had to face questions from neighbors as to why the home was for sale, from my family and retire early from my job as we worked for the same entity and I was constantly being asked by fellow employees about her A.

At this point she is crying and stating that I did not know how many times she thought about coming home, but becuse I contacted her work and "expletive upped" her job. She then states that had I not let everyone know about the A it would have been a differant story, Venution talk

<blockquote>quote:<hr />At this point she is crying and stating that I did not know how many times she thought about coming home, but becuse I contacted her work and "expletive upped" her job. She then states that had I not let everyone know about the A it would have been a differant story, Venution talk.<hr /></blockquote>She's just trying to shift her guilty conscience over to you, that's all.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Seems like part of Plan B might be working.
<hr /></blockquote>I don't consider you in plan B at all ... Like TMCM said, she just put the blame on you and justify her action ... and she got you again.

-rh-

Yep, thought agout your posts, you guys are correct.

I have to fully agree, she has never been at fault for anything.

red, has been pretty much plan B'ing pretty good lately, only times I have spoken to her have been in regards to the little guy or finances, nothing further.

Rookie:
Didn't take it as cold at all. The drinking really makes ti impossible to deal with them on almost any level. Even when she is not drinking, the fog takes over.

I put my faith in the hands of these experienced people. Has it been a long road ?. Without a doubt. Painful? Yes. But after following the Plan A/B concept I can say it works beautifully.

Naturally, I am disappoimted the marriage did not succeed, but I know I can move on with my sons.
There is light at the end of the tunnel....just make sure it isn't a freight train, ok Rookie?
Also a little Earth,Wind and Fire might help.

Something is going on, today she calls again to reinterate the reasons she cant come home,initailly I hung up on her as she was sporting for a fight. After the 6th call, I have to apologize for this, but, I let her have it how she ruined my retirement, my daughter's wedding, had a affiar when I needed her most after the surgery for cancer and had the nerve to serve as the maid of honor at the daughter's wedding while she was having a A, and how cold that was knowing she was leaving.

I told her I could walk away from this marriage knowing I did everything possible to saveit while she did nothing but continue her affair and destroy lives,that she was going to have to live the rest of her life knowing that she did so and that the guilt was never going to subside knowing she was a liar and a cheat, that she would never get rid of the guilt.

I know I should not have done this, I could not hold it in anymore and the calls were getting crazy, I hung up to avoid such a confrontation.

Anyhow, tonight at 7:10 Pm., while I am at my son's football practice she calls and asks if she should pick him up, I said no, do not come, practice ends at 7:30 there would be no sense in her coming at that time and added it would be nice if she would pick him up once in awhile and let me know in advance if she was going to do so, so that,Icould leave and eat dinner for a change, and hung the phone up again.

7:30 Pm., she shows up saying she did not know if I wanted her to pick up the son or not as I hung up and did not give her a answer, I KNOW she heard me say no, not to come.

I dont know what is on her mind, but it is making me crazy and I dont want to engage her anymore in this insanity.

One funny thing did happen today, I found out the phone number of the OP's new cell phone that he and the wife have to communicate. His message is
I WISH WE WERE TOGETHER, so this phone is the exclusive phone they use to carry on, anyhow I did call his W and gave her the number, she called him and talked casually about their son, I would have paid money to see his face when she called him on that number.

His wife stated that as of late he has been very depressed and has been drinking more than he has in the past. Sounds like the W is going to have a good life.

rookie,

Plan B the best you can ... you are still talking & meeting with her. You know that you are a better choice than OM. Deep down your WW knows it too ... so find a way to avoid her. Also Plan B full of LB is the worst you can do. It will just harden your WW's heart and this is what we call it "not making it safe for WS to come home". Your plan B is working if you just let it develops.

-rh-

Agree redhat, last night when she showed for the game, I refused to discuss anything, I entered my car and drove away.

This morning I did email her in regards to visitation with my son, since school is back in session, I want alternating weekends and ended it there.

Well, tonight in a attempt to keep my motorcycle I went out and bought a new car, with the rebates and such it lowered my monthly payment, so just maybe I can keep it now.

felt good to do something for myself for a change, and without her. She tried to use the signing of the title of the old car for the new one as a bargaininng chip, saying she would sign off on the car if I signed the divorce papers as soon as they came, told her I was not signing anything till the attorney reviewed everything and was in agreement, she wants out bad, but I wonder how she is going to feel 6 mos to a year from now.

When at the dealorship, found out she just has to sign for the transfer of the plates, anyhow just trying to move on.

Hi Rookie,

I'm glad to see you are doing something good for
yourself. It's important to nuture yourself too!! Well it looks like your getting things in order and using wisdom to do it. Proud of ya!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for: ....but I wonder how she is going to feel 6 months to a yr from now?
I think she is making a big mistake and eventually she is going to feel it.

Ladysheep

Thanks Lady, One part of me wants her back so bad tht it hurts.

The other makes me wonder why I stayed with her so long.

It is very strange in tht the person she is now is nothing like the person she really is,, guess that would be deep, deep down inside.

Still hurts like hell to even look at her nd to talk to her is even worse.

It bothers me to no end that I did nothing to nurture this A, but I am getting total blame for the divorce, it's all my fault.

Hi Rookie,

I understand completely.

It is very strange in that the person she is now is nothing like the person she really is, guess that would be deep, deep down inside.
Adultery has a way of really changing a person for the worst, morally and personality wise.
You are seeing her whole spirit and soul change and that is very difficult to watch. But it is what is happening. She is suppressing the truth right now. Until she gets to the point of confession, and turning away from it, you will see her the way she is now. But if she confesses
it and turns away, she has a very good chance of returning to be the woman that you knew and loved/love so much.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Well, have not called her for anything last couple days.

She has called about five times today, I sent her a email stating it was too painful for me to speak with her and that the only communications I would have with her was by email and only in regards to my son or finances, soo, she blocked her caller ID and called again, hung up on her.

She keeps asking the same questions repeatedly concerning our son and I have answered them via:email, so it is not a misunderstanding as to what I have said. She is trying to engage me in arguements AGAIN.

I have also stated in the email, that since she has accused me of mental abuse, email was the only way to communicate as I was not going to be falsely accused of saying or doing anything else, the email would be my documentation against any further false claims.

Vent

Today is my son's football game. I am going as I would always attend one of his functions.

The WW will be there, she sent me a email yesterday suggesting that we alternate games so we do not have contact or create a enviorment for the son.

I replied that I love my son and will do all, as always to support him, I will be at the game.

I am praying for the stregnth to not engage this woman, she has been sporting me lately for a arguement, with the divorce pending, I can only surmise that it is to justify her affair and what a terrible person I am. God give me the stregnth to ignore her on all levels today when I am there.

Even with all that has happened, when I see her I know the pain of what has happended, and the love which I still hold for her is going to be reignited, even though the loneliness is overwhelming, there has been some comfort in the fact that the affair has not been thrown in my face on a daily basis since she has moved out.

I have not dated, but, I am missing the intimacy of someone in my life so bad at this point.

Last night I woke from a dream that I was holding her, the dream was very real, talk about depression to wake in a empty bed....

God give me the courage to carry on...

Vent................

rookie,

Hang in there brother ... and have faith. The end of the tunnel is actually under your control. It could be a light of enlightenment (either your M is salvage or your sanity would be for years to come) or the light of train wreck that would wreck your humanity.

-rh-

Saw her at the game and spoke with her briefly, tore my heart out to see her.

I handed her a check that was to be split from a mutual fund to pay for this adventure.

She did accuse me of making prank phone calls to her while the game was in progress, even though I was standing in the open area of the field, with no phone on me.

I did tell her this whole situation is killing me and that when the insanity stops, I will be there.

Rookie;

I know you still care about her. But, are you not in Plan B? You are either in Plan B or you are not.

And, to make statements to her like "when the insanity stops, I will be there"... is insane in itself. To me, this would only enable her more to continue what she is doing and defeats the purpose of Plan B.
Your financial business is certainly yours, but I wouldn't give my wife a dime anymore. I did this several times and it cured nothing. If anything, she abused me more. It was at that point I decided to file for Custody/Support. Again, I think what you are doing is defeating Plan B.
If you are hoping that money will bring her back, I can assure you it will not.
I suggest getting legal advice before you turn any joint property over to her. JMHO.

Hi Rookie,

I know it must be so difficult to see her, and when you do it brings all those feelings and more back.
But.....
It seems every time you get near your wife face to face, she accuses you of something, or manipulates. That is why we all encourage you
to stay in a Plan B status, to avoid the hurt
she brings to you, and to hold her accountable.

It is up to you what money you give her. But it would be good to stay with giving money that is
needed only for the son. By handing it to her
face to face, it only causes her to dig and try to cause more pain. And you are right it is insanity. I don't think it was wrong to tell her that, but if in plan B, you can stop her
from making any accusations to your face, therefore causing less pain to you. And it lets
her know you will not tolerate what she is doing to you and family. And hopefully any affair will stop. Maybe it would be best to mail the money or get it to her some other way w/out having to speak to her.

Plan B is difficult, but you have to be strong and stand your ground through it, no matter how much it hurts and how difficult it is.

I know you sent her a plan B letter before, but maybe you could send her another copy of it to remind her, and possibly add a few more things.
Then stick to that plan like a "Rock." What do you think?

Ladysheep

Hey Rookie I know exactly what you are going through. You are in my prayers. Please check out www.rejoiceministries.org and sign up for the daily email from charlynecares. It's real inspirational.

I only gave her 50 percent of the mutual fund that I cashed as it was a asset that I was going to have to give to her anyway, this is according to my attorney as it was marital property.

The reason I gave it to her was I was at the football game my son was playing in and she was slo there, I simply handed her that check,(a cashiers so I had a record of the payment to her) made the statement about ending the insaity and walked away.

Today I had my son, when I picked him up she came to the door, I said nothing, as I turned to leave, she says you cant even say hello or goodbye, I said no, and I know I should not have added this, but said you broke my heart, I have nothing else to say to you and left. I guess I should learn to be more social.

Just wanted to add, that I cashed the mutual fund to pay my attorney fees, not that she needed the money, I was just giving her her, her half.

Rookie - I'm with you and feel for what your going through.

I'm still amazed at how some WS react when they up and leave.

We as BS's here things like - "I love him" - "I don't love you" - "it's over" - "he's my soul mate"

Yet the WS or WW in our cases act totaly differant than someone who says there so happy and have found everything they ever wanted.

Your WW try's to pick fights with you just to talk to you. Time for Plan B - IMHO

My WW can't talk about anything regarding us or the affiar. Total avoidance. No marriage with me, no friendship with me, just no me. Running from the problems or just avoid them is her MO. WOW kind of like our marriage issues.

All we can do is work on ourselves and hope.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Just wanted to add, that I cashed the mutual fund to pay my attorney fees, not that she needed the money, I was just giving her her, her half.<hr /></blockquote>No you don't need to give it to her right now ... you just "owe" her half and you could just put the money aside & settled it later. Now she will spend it w/ OM. From the beginning you sabotage your own plan B. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> At this rate, you make it difficult for recovery if that would come.

-rh-

previously posted by redhat:
Now she will spend it with OM. From the beginning you sabotage your own plan B.
Ohhhhhh Rookie <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Maybe I should clarify this, I needed the monies for my attorney and she for her apartment.

Yep, if I think about it, it is for the OM, but I am getting the court order that the OM cannot reside there.

rookie,

I don't mean being harsh ...

I have helped OM's ExW to "move on". I was pretty much stay away from her and adviced her to do plan B ... but she was unable to do so. Her IC gave up on her since her conselor told her to NC to no avail. About last March she told me she won't take ExH back but she "needs" help to detach from him. I told her to keep the contact and just listen to her vent. Last weekend finally she is out of her own "fog". She won't do plan B but she is pretty much come to her own senses and her LB$ was bankrupt. She is fully detached now and she won't take ExH back no matter. LB points after LB points ... I just helped her to supply the info for her ... finally last week ExH took vacation w/o telling her and avoiding to take his own children even being offered ... ExH went to camping w/ my ExW and my 2 D instead .... My 2 D rebelled and make it a camping from hell plus there is lightening storm ... they have to cut short their trip a day earlier. ExH told his son that he would come home if she lost 40 lbs of weight to become 120 lbs and put his name back on the deed of the house ... She decides that she don't want this man no more. Now she understood when I told her that there would be a point when it is up to her to if she still want him or not ... 8 months ago she told me until the pig fly it would never happen since my ExW is OW from hell (using MB principals to gain OM). Last week was the day. My point is A will end !, you know your WW is insane right now ... dealing/listening/following her action would drained your LB$ ... .

-rh-

redhat, I could not agree with you more. Her A has followed the plot as I have said before like a bad soap opera, it has also gone the path as described here exactly.

When and if the time ever comes that she decides enough is enough, I dont know if she will try to come back as she has never been known to be wrong, at least in her view., her pride will never allow her to admit anything wrong.

You are very much correct that she has LB'd the hell out of me.

rookie,

It is never too late to plan B. It really works. If you choose to take her back if she is ever turn around ... you would preserve you "good" memory of your M before d-day and make reconsiliation possible and easier. If you choose not to take her no matter what happen ... you would get stronger by day and prep you to move on as a single man. I know my if I break my NC and start plan A my ExW I would get her. They start LB each other "big time". Remember both of them bring their own baggage into their A which they try to make it as R ... it won't work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . As Love is a choice I choose not to and I have decided to start fresh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Have faith ... it is easier to win a jackpot in Las Vegas than making A into R then into M let alone fullfilling one, fat chance !. A will end but you have to detach yourself to outlast this.

-rh-

I agree redhat, I HAVE to stay away from her.

When she picks up the son from my house, I am not going out, when I drop him off, I will just drive off.

Last night when she picked up the son, she exited her vehicle, there was no reason to do so, but I just waved and closed the door.

Seeing her is a very emotional thing for me still, I just want to shout at her "get your head out of your [censored] and see what you are doing", but as she is so deep into the fog, it would do no good.

I firmly believe she tries to engage me in arguements simply to justify her affair, I avoid those as much as I can.

I can see in her face that she is not that all happy, somewhere in that thick skull there is alot of guilt floating around.... someday she just might wake up, hope it's not to late.

She knows she and the OP are not going to be welcomed by her family, as I have spoken with them and they have stated so, he has no family in the area, our mutual friends want nothing to do with her and his friends are the same (according to his W) so, they really have no one but them selves, Being the selfish, selfcentered people they are at this moment, that should make for a lasting, loving relationship.

Hi Rookie,

I can see in her face that she is not all that happy....
Nope, she's not!!

Being the selfish, selfcentered people they are at this moment, that should make a lasting loving relationship.
Nope, I don't think so. I'm glad her family and friends are not condoning the A, it will help it break off that much sooner, we hope!!

Stay in plan B, and be strong, even during the tears. Ask God to help you forgive her even now.
No matter what she is doing now, it will help your heart in the long run to forgive. Doesn't mean you have to contact her, speak to her, or condone. Forgiveness just helps your heart heal.

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
She knows she and the OP are not going to be welcomed by her family, as I have spoken with them and they have stated so, he has no family in the area, our mutual friends want nothing to do with her and his friends are the same (according to his W) so, they really have no one but them selves, Being the selfish, selfcentered people they are at this moment, that should make for a lasting, loving relationship.<hr /></blockquote>Have you gave her plan B letter ? ... it is a requirement. Otherwise you will look mean plus she might not know what you want in the mist of her fog, wriiten is the best.

You see rookie ... it tooks hardship in their A to crack. My ExW's starts cracked by financial hardship. I poped her bubble by getting "laid off" and it is a big LB for her now to go to work ... very unhappy la la land ... OM start pisshed off since he has to help ExW but he has to scrape the bottom of his pocket. Reality would give another blow to her ... she thought she would get at least 75K$ from the settlement, not !. I would give them about 2 more months before it becomes full blown LB.

As long as she is not filing Dv it is up to you to outlast this A.

-rh-

Lady, I should carigy one point here.

The family that is not supporting her is her extended family, uncle, aunt and cousins. Her parents are still of the belief that the realationship between her and the OP is simply a FRIENDSHIP, I dont know how far they can stick their heads in the sand, but they have managed.

MIL is having surgery on Friday for breast cancer. I did send her a e-mail wishing her the best and asvising her should she need anything, I would be willing to assist.

I have never been a religous person in the sense that I have attended organized services, but I do have a beleif in a high power and I do pray daily, one for this issue to be resolved and hopefully she comes out of the fog soon and if she doesnt, that I have the stregnth to do what I have to do and carry on with my life.

Rookie

redhat, she has filed for a divorce and it is in the court system now.

I did send her a plan B letter about a month ago, she is very much aware of my feelings towards her.
Her fog is way to thick now for her to even think a coherant thought.

Here is a new one.

Today I get a call from the therapist my ten year old son is seeing.

She stated that he has a major concern over the fact that I have a gun in the house. I inquired as to what the concern was since I was a police officer and there has been a gun in the house since he was born and he never voiced a concern over it before. She would not answer the question, my son was in the room with her.

I can only assume at this point that he has heard a conversation between my W and the in-laws, or someone else she was talking to.

This explains the reason her therapist told her to leave me as soon as possible, she must have spun one helluva tale, I never figured that one out till now. It makes complete sense.

I have never displayed a gun in my home, never have threatened anyone or anything with violence, if she claims I have it is complete, unadulterated B.S,.

This is getting crazier as it goes along, they now have me potrayed as a major lunatic, it really upsets me that it is affecting my son and my relationship with him.

It also explains why the OP told HIS wife that he was worried I was going to put a bullet in his head, could'nt beleive that when I heard that one also, but, I guess she is going to say whatever she can to justify her A.

Wow Rookie, You should ask the therapist to call you at a later time when son is not in the room.
This way you can explain to her what is "really"
going on.

Ladysheep

Lady, I am going to see what my son has to say. I have him for the weekend.

I cannot push the conversation about this with him, he is only ten, but I am going to ask him what his concerns are about the gun issue to see what he has to say.

If he does not want to answer, I can not push the issue, he has enough things going on in his head at the moment without me seeming to be prying or placing him in the middle.

When I spoke with the therapist on the phone I did state that the gun is not loaded, the ammunition is located in a completely differant location than the gun. I also stated that the gun has never been displayed in a threatening manner, he has seen it, but never in any fashion to cause concern.

The whole thing boils down to the W, she has to justify her A and is saying anything at this point to justify her actions. I am a horiible person with violent tendencies who is mentally and physically abusive, hence, she has every right in the world to have a boyfriend and to aviod any contact with me, and ws forced to move out. I am sure she has not told to many people that I asked her to leave after she would not end her affair.

She does not realize the damage she is doing to her son and his relationship with me by spinning this tale of terror. He will some day realize the dynamics of it all and she will have to face the reality of HER actions and words with him, that will not be pleasant in the least. Right now FOG is directing her actions.

Hi Rookie,

What I mean is that your son is obviously bringing up talk about the gun. I think it
may be imparative for you to let the therapist
know that W could be saying things around him, that are not true.
Such as OP making an accusation to his wife that he is afraid you would put a bullet in his head.
WHAT IF YOUR SON HEARD HIM SAY THAT OR YOUR WIFE???
What I'm saying, if your son is over hearing your wife speak of such things or the OM saying such things, that may be where your sons fear (or major concern) of the gun may come from.
Letting the therapist know this is very important, then she will know how to treat him
in therapy. But son does not need to know you spoke w/ her.

Let the therapist know that your wife says such untrue things to try to justify her affair w/ OM.

Yes your right, I too think it is important to ask your son his concern of the gun such as....Are you afraid of the gun? Did someone say something to scare you about the gun? And then listen to his answer.

Ladysheep

I did speak with my son on Sat. in regards to the gun. He stated that he just did not feel comfortable with it being here and would not elaborate any further. I did not push for a answer.

I did see the W at my son's football game today, I was standing on the 50 yard line and she on the 10, I did not approach her or speak to her. My mother was with me and the W would not even approach her to say hello.

I have spoken with her parents many times since this whole tihing started and she cannot even acknowledge my mother, funny, when you are embarassed by what you are doing, it must be the right thing to do.

Hi Rookie!

Just caught up with your story. Sorry to hear that things aren't going any better than they are. I have been praying like a monk that it would get better for you... guess I need to step it up a notch.

Sounds like you are doing things right, except for a few slips here and there. Hopefully, before the papers are in order she will see the end of the fog. Is she still seeing the OM?

I hate to think about what she might be telling your son when he is with her. Does he confide in you any of this? She seems to be a great story-teller; but my guess is that is the fog creating lies and altering reality.

I hope that things change for you soon!

Take care and God Bless,

r0uter

rOuter, good to hear from you and very happy to see that you are not posting about problems at home.

Hope things are working for the better and your wife is comming around.

Had my son all weekend, I do not pressure him for any info from her angle, as I feel anything she is telling him isnt worth hearing anyhow. He also has his demons to deal with this issue and if I am constantly asking him about it, it just makes it all that much worse for him.

Thanks for the prayers, keep them comming, I have thought of you and your situation often and do ask the Lord to help you also.

She is very much in the fog state yet, so I do not see anything happening for quite awhile yet.
Just have to keep hanging in there.

Rookie,

read about it here: r0uter's story.

ROuter, I am sorry to see things go south for the time being for ya, I'll be thinking of ya and saying a prayer for ya.

Hang in there buddy, you still seem to be in a better position that I could dream of at this point.

Stay strong, stay healthy

Rookie

I did speak with the W on the phone last night, for some reason I didnt hang up as usual, violated Plan B, but, it was only a 5 minute conversation before I did.

She stated that she would still be living here had I not notified the family, states that she can not face them as it would be unbearable. I did ask her how she continued to work where she does as all there know of the A, her comment was I still have to a=make a living.

No real point to this post other than a vent, it is always one reason or another as to why she left, but in the end as I told her no matter what she says, she would have been gone no matter what reason she presents.

Hi Rookie,

It seems your wife is more worried about what the family thinks than you. Ask her if it is unbearable for her to face you. She's just putting the blame on elsewhere, but herself.
Don't take it personally.

After doing that, it should be unbearable for her to face you, which is what I think it really is.

Ladysheep

Ok, so last night I thought I saw the W by the mailbox.

This morning I get the mail and there is a birthday card from her.

It states, I wish you could get over the anger, have a happy birthday.

This trips my trigger, considering the recent events.

I broke Plan B, again and sent the following e-mail,

Do not have any further contact with me while you are involved in your affair.

As far as the anger goes, it is not anger but hurt, you have put me in a adversarial position by leaving, moving to another apartment and screwing another man.

How dare you to wish me a happy birthday, contact me when the A is over.

You dont have the nerve to face me personally after what you have done.

Your card really pisses me off as you have no feelings for anyone else except yourself and JON.

Sorry, I know I need the proverbial 2x4 across the head, but what nerve, ingnorance she displayed by doing that.

Tommorow is my birthday, it is usually one of those days to stay in bed, past birthdays, oders to go to Viet Nam. Orders to pick up my friends body that was killed there and bring it home, two weeks after surgery for cancer, served with lawsuit, and of coarse 9-11-01, wife is moving to a apartment from her parents house 9-12-03, need I say more?, should take a couple of sleeping pills and just sleep through the day hoping nothing happens.

VENT'''''''''''''''''

Well, the birthday went by pretty uneventful.

Today she shows up with the movers to pick up some furniture.

Was extrememly emotional watching my sons bedroom set leave and other items.

FIL came with her and stood by his vehicle, he did not even have the nerve to approach and say hello, I did acknowledge him.

In-laws are paying for rent, attorney fees and furniture for the W, she must have told them a VERY good story or they are just plain ignorant.

Vent....

Almost forgot, she has been getting into my e-mail account from her work.

She did mention as to where I would be going to this weekend and with whom. (friends she does not know that I have made since she has left, which is making her wonder)

Seems to me that she should care less as to what I am doing.

Told her I did not care that she was checking my e-mail as I had nothing to hide, unlike her, she made it a point to call me and let me know about the e-mails, I then hung up.

As she moved out today, there seems to be very little hope. I sent the OP a e-mail, advising him of the times my W had sex w/me while telling him she was in love with him, and that, as a technicality, she was also cheating on him.

Was something I know others advise against, but I wanted to give HIM some stomache acid for a change.

Rookie I won't give you a 2x4 whack over your head, besides what good would it do since it seems to be made of titanium <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . I will say that she SEEMS to have sent you that BD card in order to provoke a response from you and I say this because in your past posts, you mentioned that she has tried to sabotaged your Plan B no contact. It's been said that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference and it SEEMS that she'd rather deal with your outbursts of hurt, anger or hatred than deal with your indifference. What do you think?

TMCM, by you making that statement in regards to the indifferance it set a light bulb off im my titanium head.

I believe, from her view, it is better for her to deal with the hurt/anger as she is able to justify her affair then my indifferance, the indifferance bothered her, because it was just that (or she interpeted it as I just dont give a s**t mode, but I always left the door open saying when the A is over, I'll be there and that it was to painful for me to talk to her, and in complete honesty, it was).

I know, I do have to get into the indifferance mode in a solid manner, and I will. You are more than correct.

As far as the OP, do you think I was wrong in fueling his insecurities?, he by nature is a very insecure person.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"As far as the OP, do you think I was wrong in fueling his insecurities?, he by nature is a very insecure person."<hr /></blockquote>I'd say just the opposite, for it is his insecure nature will be his downfall with or without your help.

TMCM, the indifferance does kill her.

Last night, Fri. I was to meet some friends to go th the dog track at 6:30, I asked the W to pick up the son at football practice at 6:15 as I had plans.

6:35 rolls around, no W, I was not going to leave the son there without one of us present.

I call her and ask where she is, she stated she was on her way. Anyhow this led to a chain of phone calls.
I picked up my friends, they were in the car when W calls 10 times for whatever reason, I would answer and hang up after I answered her questions that were previously answered. It was to the point I was answer and hangup immediatley as she was just ranting bout whatever.

My friends asked me if she was out of her mind. The indifferance coffeeman is very painful to her obviously, I interpet that as something I must adhere to.

Well, it was good to get out with a bunch of people, totally had the situation off my mind for several hours, I also did well enough at the track where I was able to walk out ahead by $50.00 after paying for dinner, drinks(non-alcoholic of coarse)admission and parking.

Way off topic, but at the track, every other friday they have 50 cent beers, I drink Sharps, a non-alcoholic beer (still love my beers) but the charge $3.00 a bottle for it. Some how that does not seem right, but who said life is fair.

Rookie you might want to turn off your cell phone the next time she starts becoming a nuisance.

I wonder if she's letting her imagination run wild by speculating that your indifference, due to Plan B, may actually be a sign of your involvement with another woman. What do you think?

TMCM, I dont really know if she interpets it as my involvement with another woman, here is why.

She does know the name of someone I have been seeing as she has tapped into my e-mail, this person is female, but it is a friendship, and she has introduced me to a new cirle of freinds, and we have discussed the friends in the e-mails.

I have left e-mails from this woman on my account as I know her, being the W and the OP have been veiwing the account reading my e-mails. In the e-mails from this woman she is telling me about her dates and people she has romantic interests in.

The W also knows that I am having dinner tonight with the OP's W, as I corresponded with her via:e-mail, in the e-mail I discussed with his W (the OP's) that I wanted to review the terms of their divorce settlement as she just recieved the paperwork from her attorney with proposed settlement issues.

My W told my son that I was dating the OP's W, stating she knew the time, date and location we were meeting, I explained to the son that I was simply having dinner with her as we both have something in common because of our situation, and there was some issues in regards to what is going on the we wanted to discuss.

Yes, we are having dinner, but I also am having 4-5 other friends there at the time so that no one can interpet anything between the OP's W and myself.

And I did do exactly that last night, I left my cell phone in the car while I was out. It was GREAT to be out amongst people, laughing and having a good time. Having the situation off my mind for 4 hours was better than I could describe, I actually had a personality for a change.

It sounds like she MAY indeed beleive that you are involved with another woman and that she feels she needs to keep her presence in your mind alive so that she can have a fighting chance to get you back later on. That's why I beleive that your indifference, combined with the physical separation and friendship with this other female terrifies her so much.

I don't know how wise this suggestion may be but you might want to consider telling your son that you are more than willing to take him along the next time you and the OM's W get together so that he can see that there is nothing going on between you and her. I don't think that he would take you up on your offer but he will at least see that you are not hiding anything from him, unlike his mother.

Excellent idea, I will also suggest the the OP's W does the same with her son, at the same time.

Very excellent indeed, thanks.............

Hi Rookie,

I'm glad you had an enjoyable evening. You deserve it!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Went out again tonight, the OP's W was with, there were about 10 other people. No there are no interests in HIS wife at all, we both agreed that it was a good thing to simply get out of the house and be social with others, we did meet prior to eveyone else coming and discussed the divorce situtation we both are involved in.

I did see the W at the son's football game today.

I spoke with her, I sat right next to her, simply said that I had packed some items that she had left at the house and would she please come by and remove them, I was leaving without saying anything else to her when she made the comment that I should have a good time with the OP's W tonight and that I should read the divorce papers over carefully as I was going to be signing them soon myself, I was very calm about it, I simply turned, stated that I always try to have a good time and left. I was able to walk away with a smile on my face.

TMCM, I firmly beleive you might be correct, she baits me for a fight and if I dont fall for it, it definelty grinds on her.

The OP's W did state that he was in a extremely foul mood yesterday when he came home from work,, hmmmmmn wonder if it might have had something to do with the e-mail I sent him telling him she was having sex w/me while at the same time she was telling him she loved him.

Today when I saw her, wasnt as in times past where I was eating my heart out, I actually was looking at her and had the feeling of disgust.

One thing I did forget, the OP has informed his son that his W and I are dating as my own W informed my son of the same.

I cannot beleive how low these two can go, they are the ones messing around having a A, and now they are trying to tell the kids it is us,, how much lower can these two get....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:

One thing I did forget, the OP has informed his son that his W and I are dating as my own W informed my son of the same.

I cannot beleive how low these two can go, they are the ones messing around having a A, and now they are trying to tell the kids it is us,, how much lower can these two get....<hr /></blockquote>Well let's face it rookie, your e-mail telling OM that you and his stbxw are doing the wild thang behind his back did contribute to beefing up his lies about you to his son. It might be a good idea to abstain from further e-mail taunts to the OM for they could backfire on you later on.

If your son asks you flat out if its true that you and the OM's W are dating each other, you might want to tell him to look at what you do instead of what you say and that he judge for himself as to whether or not you are telling him the truth. With this you would be imparting to him on of the most important lessons in life, which is that 'actions speak louder than words'.

[ September 14, 2003, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

TMCM, no I dont plan on e-mailing the OP any longer, I did get my point across and the seed has been planted. I now know it had the desired affect, now let him swelter in it while I cackle my little buns off.

Yes, my son and his attitude is my concern in this sitch right now.

I have tried to been as open as possible with him on all of his inquiries. My biggest problem was him living with the W and the in laws, he was getting daily doses of how I destroyed our marriage and that mom has no significant other.

She, as of Fri. is now in her own apart., I now have two less people pumping sunshine about mom up his butt. It is only her now that he has to deal with on a 24 x 7 basis.

Now that she is not with her parents who cooked all the meals, had the house cleaned, had the laundry done, would watch the son for her at any time (all the things I also did when we were together) and she has to do the responcibilities of daily life, I want to see how long it is before some of the fog burns off, reality is going to suck for her

Oh her life is already sucking big time, and it will continue to get worse when Mr Wonderful starts showing his true colors to her. She'll wonder why she left you for this piece of work and an overrated desire for 'passion' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

TMCM, gotta say, dont know you personally, but love ya. Your always there when I need a honest answer, thank God for people like ya.

If your ever in the Chicago area, dinner is on me.

Rookie

Thank you rookie for your kind words, and I just may take you up on your offer if I find myself visiting the windy city in the near future.

TMCM, would be my pleasure, if my e-mail address is not posted in my profile, I will get it to you so you can let me know when you are in town.

Yesterday I had a message on my voice mail from the W.

I packed bags of groceries that she left behind that were of her taste and left them in the garage. I also advised the son to let her know to pick up her dietary, frozen foods that she had left.

The W stated that she was in the neighborhood last night and was going to stop by to pick said items up, but I was not home she will do it another time.

Funny, she will not now come by when I am not home when last month she would not come here when I was. She stated that she feared for her saftey when I was here, therefore she would not enter the residence if I was in,at that time, geeezzzz

I did not call her back and will not.

TMCM, again, how correct can you be??? polish up that crystal ball my friend.

Seems the indifferance and her inability to engage me in a arguement is getting to her.

I did send the OP a e-mail in regards to the statement he made to his 8 year old concerning his mother and I dating.

I simply advised him that if he has the balls to tell a 8 year old lies, please come and tell me to my face, otherwise the the f**k up. I also advised him that in no way, shape or form were his W and I dating.

I also let him know that everytime I think him and the W could not get any lower, they prove otherwise.

TMCM, I re- read one of your posts to me earlier.

In that post you stated that my email to the OP about me doing the wild thing behind his back with his stbxw fired him up.

Just a correction, the email concened MY stbxw and us doing the wild thang, just wanted to correct that impression, as I have maintained the stance of leaving his W alone emotionally.

I just recieved a email from my W, she stated that she will be picking our son up from football early to sign him up for band and invited me to come along.

I responed that for my own protection against any further false claims by her I will not be in the same location as she..

I also stated she should let me know when her A ends, otherwise............ and left it at that.

Rookie I'm glad that you corrected my misinterpretation of your e-mail to the OM, but I would still advise you to not contact him via e-mail because the OM could edit your messages with anything he wants to make you look bad to his son, and your W.

You did well in responding to your W's invitation the way you did because there have been so many lies told about you by her and the OM that any encounter with her could be, once again, twisted against you. Besides you are in Plan B and no longer a part of her love triangle.

Today I advised my son that the OP's W and I were NOT dating as he was told by his mom. I explained the both of us are in the same situation and we simply discuss matters which concern this sitch.

As TMCM suggested, I advised my son that he was more than welcome to come with me when I meet with the OP's W the next time so he can see what type of relationship it is, and as TMCM stated, he did not want to meet her and discussed it no further. Damnnn, that man, the coffe man is good.

The daily log of my life....

Today she calls twice, wont answer the phone when her number is on the caller ID.

She emailed 4 times for various reasons.

The no contact is getting her. I saw her last night when she picked up the son from football. It was not a face of happiness in the least, she wears her feelings on her sleeve and she looked completely miserable.

She does still attempt to engage me in a arguement or gives me a shot to make me feel bad.

Today she ended one of her e-mails, this will all end when you sign....(meaning the divorce papers.

To that I simply responded, You mean, if I sign your affair with Jon will end???? he-he.

uh oh, just what she wanted a response out of you. Any response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I see that you have pretty much lost all respect for her now. I'm not sure she deserves respect anyway.

I don't know if this is true but, in my observations over the years I have noticed
that men that are cheated on by their wife
usually begin to try to get her back feeling guilty he did something wrong, then eventually
ends up looking at her with such disgust. As you are calling OM Jon, looking now at her as a prostitute???

Maybe this will help, I don't know.

ASSERTIVENESS
The ability to recognize your strengths and express your feeling with confidence. Assertive individuals are able to express feelings like anger and tenderness directly and without apology. They have the confidence to tell others what they need and they feel in control of their own lives.

AGGRESSIVENESS
Aggressiveness centers around hurting others out of vindictiveness of defensiveness. Though it may accomplish you needs temporarily, it leads to disrupted communication and counteraggression from others.

Rookie, I just don't want to see you become aggressive through this all. Don't lower yourself to their level. Hate in your heart
will only consume you. Let any vindictiveness
go. She calls you to be vindictive and defensive but you don't need to be. Overcome
evil with good.....somehow. I know it's not easy.

I heard in an area of the USA today that women who cheat on their husband, their husband ends up growing horns, could be any horns. I don't want you growing horns. But I know the fury you feel can be overwhelming at times, and you just want to get the last dig in, but it's not necessary Rookie for your own heart sake. Be cool!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> And I know you will heal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Ladysheep

Lady, always good to hear from you.

Jon is the OP's name, even if it is appropriate.

Lady, didnt have time to respong to your post last night.

I had some people over for dinner and I had to clean up as the house is being shown by the realators.

I am the type that is vengeful type by nature, I havent done anything that would ruin their lives.
Yesterday, I recieved about 5-6 calls from telephone solicitors, all asked for my W, I told them she no longer resides here and gave the the OP's number that he had specifically for her to call him on, no a biggie, but I did get a chuckle out of that as no one but her supposedly has that telephone number.

I know that the W and the OP have not taken anyones feelings, emotions or well being into consideration, and I feel no responciblity in being kind or considerate towards them. You are more than correct in stating that I now have no respect for her, and even less for the OP.

When he made the statement to his 8 YOA son about his mother (the OP's W) and I dating, I took that as a direct challenge to correct the lies he and the W are telling, I reponded to him via:e-mail in the rudest manner I felt possible, in my heart, I know I would want him to become aggressive towards me and would welcome a physical confrotation, I do know the legal implications if I were to be the aggressor, remember I was a cop for a long time. I would take extreme pleasure in demonstrating what we used to call street justice.

I did wake from my sleep the other night with a sore hand, I was dreaming that we had such a confrontation and I was beating the daylights out of him, but, I punched the head board of the bed in my sleep, know what, I woke up with a sore hand, but feeling great.

TMCM and others on this site have recommeded that I take the indifferant stance, which I have. It has been of great help to me as I now view what she and the OP are doing in a rational manner instead of a emotional manner, and since approaching this sitch for what it truly is, a sordid A, I have been able to detach myself from it and take pride that after 9 mos. of this crap, I can still say I have worked on my marriage to save it, I have not taken the comfort of another woman and honored my marriage vows even though those two have trashed theirs.

I can walk away knowing that I have been honorable and that my actions were of such that I do not have to lie, sneak, cheat or look myself or my son in the face and say I've done anything wrong.

I saw her, the W the other night at football, in her face I can see guilt and pain, actually made me smile, I could in her face that she is stressed.

I can also just chuckle to myself and put a smile on my face when she tries to engage me in a arguement or gives me a cheap shot as I know she is hurting, and I feel the more pain the better.

TMCM stated that the OP, sooner or later is going to have to be himself, and when that happens, watch out,(not exact verbage, but close enough, well, sooner or later BOTH of them, the W and the OP are going to have to face reality and be themselves, then it will get ugly, I cant wait.

Yep it does sound like there is trouble in paradise between your W and the OM, so much so that she feels the need to try to get into arguments with you to convince herself that she did the right thing in leaving you. That is why you should avoid responding to her in mean way while treating her like she is not even there. Her own worst judge is her conscience, if she has a functional one of course.

So, tonight the FIL comes to football to pick my son up as the W was busy.

I aks FIL, Have you met Jon yet? (the OP), FIL answers no. I then ask are you starting to realize that she is having a A, he states, she is a adult and I dont talk about that with her.

I respond, if she is a adult, why did you not let her face her problems that she started as a adult by having a A instead of financing it and approving it, I then asked do you realize that by financing her A you are helping to destroy not only her life, mine and then I pointed to my son and stated his also?, he had no answer.

I then informed him that I had lost all respect for him and the MIL. I informed him that if they had told her that they did not approve of the A or had they not financed it, things might have been differant if she had to face reality as a adult.

Vent post....these are the same people that say we still love you and you are welcome in our house anytime. I informed them prior to the W moving out of the A, they were well aware of what was going on prior to financing it.

Your IL's reminded me of the old saying 'the road to hell is paved with good intentions' for in their beleif that they are helping their daughter out, they are indeed helping to destroy her, their grandson, you and the marriage. It would have been great if they have told BOTH their daughter and you that they wanted to have a meeting with the two of you to find out what was happening with your marriage and to see how they could help you save and rebuild it. Your W would have been under a lot of pressure to try to explain to them why she decided to get intimately involved with another man instead of trying to resolve her marriage problems with you. But alas that is wishful thinking on our parts, isn't it?

TMCM, I wouold have respected them more had they simply asked me what was going on after the daughter spun her tale of woe.

I informed them of the A after she moved out the first time.

Yep, if they had asked for a sit down with the W, myself and them I believe things might have been much more differant than what they are now.

Rookie, that is so funny you had that dream. I guess it's better to beat the crud out of him in a dream. How is your hand??

Rookie hang in there. You doing well.... considering. I hope you can remain calm!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wife's parents are moving....What's gonna happen then?????

Ladysheep

Morning Lady, TMCM and all.

Lady, the IL's sold their home with the intentions of moving to Arizona.

Since the MIL has been rediagnosed with cancer of the breast and has had the required surgery those plans have been placed on hold. Since they have sold the home, they were forced to rent a townhome near by till she completes radiation treatment. I have heard from mutual friends that the move might not happen at all now, so much for the karma, what goes around.

I was really hoping that they would move, their influence upon the W and my son is a negative. MIL had a similiar A a while back with a fellow co-worker, I am unsure if the FIL had ever known of it, but my point of bringing that up is how can she condemn her daughter for doing the same thing she had done. I have heard this from two differant sources, so I do believe her A occured.
One source was her best friend whose husband is a friend of mine, the other is a close family member of the MIL's. The family member owns his own business and one of his employee's was a friend of the MIL's OP and knew all the details.

There have been times that I was tempted to ask her, the MIL about it and ask the FIL how he dealt with his W having a A, but, that would in my opinion be overstepping the bounds.

One thing, these people are very self serving, the MIL told me that I should not have used the cancer that I was diagnosed with as a crutch for the depression I had following the diagnosis and subsequent ramifications of the surgery, impotency and incontinence. I really felt like asking her after he diagnosis of cancer if it bothered her at all, but that would be putting my self down to their level.

I at times also have been tempted to ask the FIL how he handled the A of HIS W, but I am not sure if he knew of it and I was not going to be the one to break the news to him. Some day I might have a one-on -one conversation with the MIL and advise her that I know of the A she had to see how she responds, how did you break it off, why did you have the A and what made you decide your marriage was more important than a roll in the sack.

Not to sound crude, but this is a development on my part. I was left impotent after the surgery for prostate cancer, I feel that my ability to perform the more intimate parts of marital relationships led to the A my W is having. I could perform with the use of medication, not viagra, but in the form of a shot, which took all spontinaity out of the form of love making.

My W has a VERY strong sex drive, which I always welcomed and enjoyed. As soon as that had been taken away, along with the depression I experienced over the lack of said spontinaity this led to her A, again not to sound crude, but certain bodily functions have started to work on their own so to say and to put it mildly, the spontinaity could be had at this time.

The impotency had a very strong impact upon me, not that I was a raging stud, but I was very sexually active. That was removed from my life for a year and a half, the depression that followed was very real. It is a shame that she could not have stood by me through those times.

Now it is like have the car gassed, the engine running and no where to go, I have still honored my vows and have not taken another woman, sounds like a pun, but it is getting hard.

Yesterday was my daughters birthday, the W sent my D a e-mail stating that after all they years they had spent together, her love for her has not died and that she is still in the W's heart and she thinks of her often. The W sent me a copy of the e-mail she sent to the D. Althought it is breaking the plan B, I simply repsonded to the W in the form of a e-mail, I still feel the same way about you without saying anything else.

Things to be thakful for that your W has a A, so far today alone,

Recieved notification that the credit card bill has not been paid, charging privleges suspended.

Go to store, use debit card, denied, funds not sufficient in account.

Go to bank, withdraw monies, reactivate debit card.

Paid health insurance bill $1.400.00, insurance would have been covered by W's had she kept her pants up and stayed in marriage.

Son will be over tonight for weekend, has major attitude and repeats things concerning the on going divorce that I HAVE NOT discussed in front of him, repeats accusations W made in regards to what I have done to destroy the marriage, her A has nothing to do with it.

Went to pharmacy to refill prescription for anti depressants.

May they both burn in hell for the pain they caused..............

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
May they both burn in hell for the pain they caused..............<hr /></blockquote>Revenge is not yours ... they will have to face the consequences when the time come.

Hang in there
-rh-

redhat, just venting, been one of those days where I cant turn around without something kicking me in the head that those two have caused by their actions, gets real rough on days like this.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Paid health insurance bill $1.400.00, insurance would have been covered by W's had she kept her pants up and stayed in marriage. <hr /></blockquote>The divorce isn't final yet, is it? Why is insurance already cut-off?

Sorry to hear things still aren't going any better. I think you are handling it well though. the indifferent stance seems to really be pushing her buttons! Hopefully a turn will come soon.

Unfortunately, it seems the children are all too often used as pawns and become innocent victims.

Hang tough!

r0uter

Good to see you rOuter.

In regards to the insurance, yes, as long as we are married I am covered under her plan, but, to be covered after the divorce I had to reactivate my plan retroactive to June when I retired.

Had I not reactivted my insurance I would have been covered under her plan, Cobra for a period of 18 mos., after that, nothing, there fore, I have to have my own policy in effect.

The retro payment back to June was the $1.400 payment.

rookie,

My finances even more in dis-array than yours. My ExW wanna all my retirement account plus I have to pay for the tax for 2002 ($43K) plus life time spousal support (I thought she is going to M OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) plus pay the rest of her lawyer fee ($5K) . I can't do anything with my stocks since it is under court order to frezze it. She rejected the mediator and want a trial. I can't refi my house since I just get them last year and my income is not qualified for it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

Do I get mad ? ... like you, the h3ll yes! but I am not looking to make the score even ... I am not drinking this poison of the soul and hope they will burn in h3ll. They put me in this situation but I know I will survive this but don't know how yet. I am thinking from opening Internet Cafe to doing import/export of frozen crawfish ... Meanwhile I am looking into improving my resume by taking OCP (Oracle Certified Prof). To make me more busy I took carpentry/construction class ( my hours of my contract job has been reduced).

The light at the end of the tunnel could be a train wreck or could be light of happiness/opportunity ... we have the control what that light might be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-rh-

Not much to add for what happened over the weekend other than the OP did spend both Fri and Sat night at the W's new apartment.

She came to pick up the son Sun. morning, asked her if her parents knew they were financing her sex life, or it they still were believing that her OP was JUST a friend.

She is to the point that she cannot even look me in the face, her guilt is defintely showing, she looks extremely miserable, good.

I am at the point now that even if she wanted to reconcile this thing, I would tell her to leave.

I still love who she WAS, what she is now is a very disgusting person.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
I am at the point now that even if she wanted to reconcile this thing, I would tell her to leave.

I still love who she WAS, what she is now is a very disgusting person.<hr /></blockquote>Is there any such a thing as reverse fog ? Of course no one should take WS as is. However with a proper guidance under MB ... she would be better than she WAS !.

It is your choice but you speak from a man that has a bankrupt LB$ ... those LB$ could be rebuild. You know if she repents and willing to ammends and you aren't willing to take her back ... you might miss the blessing of fullfiling M.

In my situation last August-December, my LB$ is overdrawn and the judge grant 3 months 'till 12/31 for my change of status (Dv). I was praying that she won't want to come back. I wouldn't know what to do in that case ... I don't want to look back 10 years down the road and regret it if I don't try. She made it easier for me by letting Dv comes through and to me Dv is the final nail to the coffin, a combination lock# that no one know the number to open for reconsiliation (I don't beleive in remarry to the same spouse even my church allows it).

You did your best but make sure you have no regret/guilt of "what if" in the future

-rh-

redhat,, She has taken every LB possible and tossed it away like everything else.

At this moment I have a hard time looking at her and not feeling absolute disgust.

Your correct in saying the DV is the final straw, I probably have about 4 more months till it is final.

Lies ontop of lies, along with what they have done to the realtionship with my son puts me in a position that, I really am lost for words to describe how I feel about her now.

What she has done to this family and myself is beyond description. Cold hearted and cruel doesnt even start to describe it.

To consider her coming back, as she was, is just a dream at the moment, if she is in the mental state she is in now, she'd have skid marks on her back side from hitting the driveway, and my boot would be stuck in a strategic location.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
if she is in the mental state she is in now, she'd have skid marks on her back side from hitting the driveway, and my boot would be stuck in a strategic location.<hr /></blockquote>I was in same thinking as your ... I told my self if I saw her having and car accident and bleeding on the road side ... I would not even stop or call 911. I have learned a lot since ...
To forgive is not to forget ... and reconsiliation is optional. We are all have forgiven by HIS BLOOD ... who are we not forgiving them ?. It is a gift ...

It took me 2 years from D-day to finally let go. I would not let this anger be the stepping stone for HIS blessing. I would help as if I am helping a stranger if there is such event.

-rh-

rehat, maybe with time, but it is way to fresh for me now.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
rehat, maybe with time, but it is way to fresh for me now.<hr /></blockquote>Like I said ... It tooks me 2 years <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> , what a thick head ... LOL.

I don't blame you Rookie, I would be upset for the pain she has caused you and the son also.
Try to act like you don't even care. Don't give her the time of day. Don't give her the satisfaction of knowing how hurt and angry you are. She likes that, and will keep it going.
Nip it in the bud. Only talk about child, that's it. Keep it to minimum. No more comments, for the next 6 months. Ignore everything she says as if you don't respect her enough to listen to a word she says. Walk away when she starts talking about herself, and don't tell her any of your problems also. She has
done some horrible stuff to you, at a very
critical time in your life, when you had cancer.
How could a woman walk away from her husband when he is ill? I don't get it. How selfish.

I know in my heart Rookie, when it's all over, you are going to be a happy man, and be blessed
with even better. Don't you worry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ladysheep

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"She came to pick up the son Sun. morning, asked her if her parents knew they were financing her sex life, or it they still were believing that her OP was JUST a friend."<hr /></blockquote>What happened to the 'indifference' treatment? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Rookie,

I think you should tell the FIL about the MIL's
affair.

Ladysheep

TMCM, I kinda lost it and made that statement when the OP's W called and said he was not at home for the two nights in question,, yeah broke taht part, but ya would have been proud of me tonight.

At football pratice she showed up to pick up the son, I walked to her with the equiptment bag, placed it at her feet and WITHOUT a word walked away.

Lady, thanks for you caring words, they are always appreciated, I am on the fence as to telling the FIL about the A, if I do, I'll be exposing the family member and friend who told me.

Just curious as to why you think it would be good for him to know. My thought was maybe he could then place himself in my situation, but I am hesitant to tell him.

Hi Rookie,

I would tell the FIL just because he should know.
It's a bad secret to keep, and you know how it feels. Did the family member/friend tell you not to tell your FIL? Do you know the man's name that MIL had the affair with? Do you know for sure it's true?

It just seems it would be the honest/right thing to do. Could you send a letter, but not say who told you?

Ladysheep

The family member asked not to get involved, one of his employees knew the guy that she was doing and the guy told her all about it, and she in turn told the relative about it.

Secondly, as I stated before, the MIL's best friend is my buddies W, The MIL told her about it, so yep, I would go to the bank with that one being true that she did have a A.

I think if I was the one that told him it would be said that the only reason I brought it up was to be vindictive and the MIL would deny it.

The guy she was with later married, moved to Vegas and has since died, so, kinda leaves it where all I could do to prove it happened would be to say who told me and I dont want to burn those that did tell me.

Oh, I understand. If he died there would be no one for FIL to confront. I thought about it also, that MIL would say you are just saying that to be vindictive. It's kind of sad though, that he may never know. If she doesn't tell him, she will go to her grave with that guilt.
Not something I would want to carry around. How
can she look him in the face every day, keeping such a secret? So so sad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ladysheep

I think that by posting so often it keeps my sanity in check.

I do re-read alot of what is responded to.

I have just read your response Lady in regards to how a woman can walk away from her husband when he is ill.

I have thought that question over many times and always come to the same conclusion, simply cold hearted. One needs their spouse at times like that, it is difficult to handle that illness on your own, let alone your wife abandoning you at a time like that.

When you hear the words from the Dr. that you have been diagnosed with cancer, it is like hearing you have been sentenced to death. It was one of the most devestating things to happen to me.

I had a very close friend die of cancer years ago at the age of about 27 and watched the progression of the illness first hand. I was devestated on the day he died as I was not with him. I was in court and upon returning I was told he died.

When she started with the OP, mentally, I did not think I could handle much more, all kinds of thoughts raced through my mind, like forgetting to turn the car off when ya pull into the garage and such. I am over that hump now, but the anger of her not staying through the illness to this day keeps me wondering how she could do that.

Then the next question I always ask myself is, why would I want such a shallow person back in my life, and what did I, and our family really mean to her. the answer is obvious, absolutley nothing.

Just like everything else in her life, if it is broke, dont take the time or care to fix it, simply buy something new and run that into the ground also, then buy the next new thing. People like her will never be happy, they never learn to appreciate life for what it is, they are always in pursuit of something better, guess what, sometimes there is nothing that can replace that broken item, and most time something that is broke can be fixed to be better than new.

I hope the OP never gets ill, if he does, he might as well pack his bags and head on out the door, he will also be replaced in no time flat.

I dont know how she can live with herself, or even look at our son and say I love you. I doubt she truly knows the meaning of that word.

Rookie were there any red flags that you can remember that said she was a very selfish woman? I ask because after my divorce was finalized, and I was able to go back in time to the beginning of my previous marriage, I finally realized that there were many red flags that all pointed to the type of person that was very capable and cold hearted to do the things she did (multiple affairs and child neglect). It seems that some of us BS's, like yours truly, were in a fog of their own.

TMCM, like you I thought about it when this started.

Yep, the signs were there, first being that she is a only child, not her fault, but her parents always treated her as if she was a child, if she ever wanted anything, they would supply it.

Other signs were, I was the one that exclusivley kept the house cleaned, laundry,landscapping and car maintenance, all of it. Never minded doing those things. When I was on rotating shifts, say 3-11 I would do it all before going to work, days 7-3 after work, mids, 11-7A, before going to bed. I am not the type that will live in a mess, so if I didnt do it, it wasnt done.

Cooking, I did most of it,when I was on days and midnights, she always came home to a prepared dinner, on occasion she would make dinner on the weekend, she was a very good cook, but....

cars, she would want a new one almost every other year, even if the one being replaced was in great shape, last one she got rid of was a 2002 Impala, with 18K miles on it, before that a Jeep with 30K on it. She would not take care of the cars, would only get them cleaned after I was on her about it, and then it would be about once every 4-5 weeks she would do it. I used to clean them for her, but gave up on it after she complained that it took to much time for me to do it. I did keep up the mechanical maintenance.

Clothes, wore the name off the credit card buying them. She would have a pile of clothes that needed to be taken to the cleanors, instead of keeping up on it, she would buy new clothes for work.

Yes, she was very selfish, but at times very giving when it came to buying something. Anything that took a effort, well, forget it.

Hi Rookie,

It's sounds like you lived a lot of years with a very self-centered wife.

I couldn't imagine you having to do all of the cleaning and cooking too, plus work your job <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Yikes, how many men do that?? My gosh, that is just too much I wonder what she is going to do now.
Expect her son to do it?? Well, you know, maybe
she has to learn to do it, and this is the way
she is going to learn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I think she is going to learn more lessons that you realize, about growing up, being a homemaker, mother, cooking, budgeting money? And if she racks up the credit cards, at least it won't be on your credit now. I really don't think her A will last that long. She is already miserable, and that won't stop until the affair stops, so....let her be miserable.

The thing is is to nip it in the bud now, it's not all about her anymore, show her that. Ignore her like the plague. She will have to learn things the hard way, unfortunately some do have to learn the hard way. You know that, you were a cop. Your wife's "crime" was adultery, and even though the states don't look at it as a crime, it is a crime in the eyes of the Lord, and there are consequences that she will have to face. The Lord is not going to make her happy with the OM, and that is a fact!! The chastening of the Lord is grievous to the one He is chastening. Keep your distance, and let the Lord do what He needs to with her, it may not be pretty. Like I said she will have to learn the hard way, maybe with harsh discipline. Harsh discipline comes to those who forsake the way.
Proverbs. Just let the judgement come, you don't have to do a thing, but step out of the way, and let the Lord do it. O.K. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Lady, truer words could not be spoken than what you have posted.

I dont have to, nor will I do anything, her having to face what God has in store for her is more than anything I could ever think of doing or saying.

From the look in her face, and the fact she cant look me in the face, God is already doing so.

Amen to the Lord my friend. I know my stand has been going on since early may. In his own time the Lord will bring our spouses back to us. Thank you Lord.

Tim

Rookie:

Greetings. It is interesting that you and TMCM discuss "The All about me Show of WW".Like TMCM I have had a chance to reflect on my marriage. She has given me that opportunity by not being here in the last three+ months. Hasn't seen the children either. Though, when she does call,she complans that I will not allow her to see them.This is completely false. She is just too selfish to get her a$$ in the car and come here.

I endured the multiple affairs, the lack of inclusion in her world and as I have discovered the incredible selfishness she has displayed in very subtle ways. I have discovered how much I did not know about her. I was blinded by dependence on her for affirmation and love.

While she was a hard working person and did care for the children and cooked and cleaned. I look back and see now that it was done grudgingly.

She just couldn't party or play as much as she wanted to because she had real responsibilities. But, the moment she felt the kids were old enough,amd she felt she had done her job, she quit and left.

After her first affair, she never understood why I was so distant. I tried many times to tell her I needed her help to understand why this happened. She could never articulate to me why.
I asked what I did. What did I get? A diatribe about how I didn't love her...how I was so busy....how I didn't want to be with her...etc....

I will admit that at times some of these things were true...but I always attempted to spend time with her. Talk to her...try to be more intimate.

What did I get ? More drinking another affair (with a woman) and all of it rubbed in my face.
I will admit that some of her needs were not met by me, but after the first affair...well that was pretty hard to do. Especially consdering she acted as though I should just get over it.

AS TMCM has pointed out, these were all RED FLAGS.
She complained if I spent money, but never complained about the new cars. Or anything else that was for her.

She never realized that she lost the best job she ever had because of her first affair.

As i have discovered...she is a "runner"...it's all about me.

I am not going to sit here and tell you it was all her fault. But, I have lived it and now I will learn to be better at sonme things.

I cannot take responsibility for her affairs. You shouldn't either. If it is all about her, she can take responsibility for it.

Sadly gentlemen (and lady) we did not observe deal breaking personal boundaries when we decided to get married to our WS's. We let their words and not their actions, convince us that we were doing the right thing in getting seriously involved with them. I think we all learned the lesson that it is better to be alone than in bad company.

Good morning all,

It would be interesting if others as well posted the red flags that they have seen but did not take into account untill it was to late. It could benefit some who are in the limbo stage.

One MAJOR red flag I forgot to mention in my earlier post was,

I was scheduled for surgery in August of 2002 for cancer, in July of 2002 I went to a reunion for the unit I was in Nam.

Prior to the trip we, the W and I stopped by a friends house. They had a black lab dog, 105lbs they were getting rid of as it was too big for their home. The W wanted the dog.

I asked her to wait till after the surgery and a period of time to recuperate from the surgery and then we would talk about getting the dog if she still wanted it.

I told her that the friends home was larger than ours, I was scheduled to have surgery in 2 weeks and did not know what physical condition I was going to be in following the surgery and I did not want to care for such a large dog, we already had one dog that we had for years and saw no sense in bringing that moose into the home at that time.

Guess what, when I returned from my unit reunion, the dog was in the house. As predicted I had the surgery, had 36 staples in my abdomen and a cathetar. The W stayed home for 1 week following the surgery, but guess who took care of that thing when she returned to work the week after surgery. I had prior told her I was not physically capable as I was not going to risk such a big dog, new to the house and not knowing it's personality/habits when I was in such a fragile condition.

I was seeing red when she went to back to work after my surgery while I was stuck in the house caring for 2 dogs, one of which I did not want in the least.

So, yep, if that was not a major red flag I dont know what was, as well as a LB on her part.

Now that she has moved out, my daughter has taken the moose to her farm as I told the W she was responcible to get rid of that dog as I did not even like it and she was the one that brought it into the house against my will. She told me that I should find somewhere to take it. I told her that if it was my responcibility I would euthanize it as I knew of no one that would want such a large dog with the traits that dog had.

Well, here is the kicker, she then tells the son (ten at the time) and my daughter who took the dog, that I was going to kill the dog. So there it goes. To me, at that time I thought it was absolutley ridiculous and selfish on her part to get that dog, I was more than correct.

I know it sound trivial, but at that time it was a major issue.

Ok, I have to jump in on this one.
Many times in the past 18 years I have thought to myself "H really has a selfish streak running through him" I just didn't realize how serious it was.
Most recent example -
H coached YS baseball team. One of the players showed up for a game with his pants falling down, and no belt. I went home and borrowed H's baseball belt that he had not worn in years, took it to the boy, and said to H "I let him borrow your belt, so his pants won't fall down while running" H gets angry - "that was mine, you should not be giving out my baseball stuff" - I didn't GIVE it away. The boy returned it later. When I handed it back to H all he said was "thanks".
This belt would have cost about $9.00 to replace, which we could well afford, but that boy could not.
Now I realize that H was in EA at that time with someone he now claims is "very athletic, more athletic than BS" and the two of them were planning a co-ed softball team together. I suspect the belt incident was becuase he was having some sort of vision of him looking buff and studly in baseball pants. Forget the fact that he has a belly.

Rookie - I would like to get your input on something. WS is a "campus cop" for a university here in town. OW is a city cop. Technically she is a "real cop" while he is a "campus cop" (he would kill me if he heard me say that) He has always liked his schedule though, so he stayed at the university. Don't you think that the day will come when he will feel like she has a better job? She carries a gun - he doesn't. Seems like a possilbe conflict??

Woman, my response to your question in regards to the "campus cop", answer is pretty simple and I dont want to sound like a elitist.

I had been on the job as a city cop for many years, as with campus cops they are in the same catagory as store, hospital and private security cops in that all I have ever met were cop wanna be's who could not pass the entrance level exams, physical, mental or aptitude tests required to be the "real police". Attitudes among that select group ranged from dirty Harry's to Serpico's.

I did not have much respect for many as they tended to know all the secrets of the job, but knew enough to cause us, the police problems in presenting their, the pseudo police, cases in court as they usually screwed them up beyond repair.

These people tended to either be so physically impaired, be it over weight or anorexic or mentally unfit that no police department would have them. They tend to be overly macho and tried to impress the police responding to their calls with wit and prowness. We usually had a pretty good laugh on their behalf.

Now on female officers, again being on the job I noticed a couple things about woman on a police department.

1st, they have a attitude, I dont mean to include all of them as there have been several who I respected highly, but in general again, for lack of physical strength and for a lack of respect most received on the street (I worked in a area with a high Hispanic population, again not to generalize, but hispanic males tend to be very macho and dont take kindly by being told what to do by a 5'2" female weighing in at 100lbs) the female coppers had a tendency to over do and over react to compensate for their weaknnesses.

Female officers work in a very macho enviorment, yep male cops are just as guilty of this. There is a lot of interaction amongst them, being the female and male officers, beleive me and trust me on this one, the female officer could look like ten miles of bad road, but THERE WILL BE A MALE OFFICER HITTING ON HER....how long does your husband think he can compete. When she finds a officer on the job in the city she will dump him faster than he can say his name, he wont know what hit him.

I have seen many, many officers come and go on the job for various reasons, but it always seemed like the woman, if they cannot get a inside job, being off the street, they tend to fade very quickly.

I dont know if I ansered you questions, but I did want to give you a little in sight based on my experiences.

You told me everything I had all ready thought.
My WH has been on campus for about 12 years now. Several times over the years he has said that he was going to apply for a city job to make more money, and each time I told him to do what makes him happy - but don't do it just for the money. His job has weekends and holidays off. He gets the week of Christmas off. This has been very important to him over the years, so he could spend time with family.
he met this woman at a crime prevention meeting. She is actually an information officer for the city - so she does have an inside job. Her BS is a county sherrif. I just don't see this relationship lasting "forever" like my WH thinks it will. I feel sad for him - she is going to destroy him some day. WH would prbably look for a new job at this point to impress her - but with the econmy being what it is no one is hiring right now. And he doesn't have his degree - so even if they were hiring, he would not stand a chance against the younger guys with degrees.
What a shame that he has given up so much for her.

Here is soemthing else that I would like your input on. A couple of years ago he got his concealed weapons permit, and started carrying a gun. It made me uncomfortable because he took that damn thing everywhere. I would put my arm around his waist at the grocery store, or at church, and I would feel the gun stuck in the back of his pants. A couple of times I said "at the grocery store? At church?" and he would get mad - "you never know what mught happen! I am only trying to protect my family!" He also kept it by the bed, which I didn't like - and he had the same "protection" excuse. Well he sure as heck isn't protecting us now.
Anyway, after he moved out he had to give up that smaller hand gun (long story, it was actually my dads gun, and he wanted it back) One day he shows up here at the house to pick up some stuff, and he has a bigger gun strapped around his waist, in a holster. He is wearing jeans, and t-shirt and this gun. I spoke without thinking - "what are you trying to be, a cowboy?" needless to say, he didn't think that was funny. Now that I think about it - I think it is pretty damn funny!!!!
But at the time I was very disturbed that he felt the need to pack a gun around like that. We live way out in the country. What did he think he was going to find out here?
I was very worried about that for awhile. But I haven't seen him with that gun again. I suspect that he has bought another smaller one, and he is hiding it in the back of his pants agian.
Is this weird???

Woman, in response to your question about the gun.

Remember the names Dirty Harry and Serpico?

Let me put it this way, I worked in a MAJOR metropolitan area. I NEVER carried a gun off duty.

My thoughts were, if something should occur, I would simply turn over my wallet, punch it out or call 911. If you are with your family, something happens and you pull a gun out you have just escalated the situation and forced the person who you have confronted to run, shoot or become more violent.

See, bad guys know a cop is not going to shoot unless he is shot at first it is extremely rare that a off duty campus security guard deflated a situation by pulling his gun.

I was very hesitant to even bring it home, I changed at work.

Tell him to get a cell phone it is alot safer.

You made me laugh - and God I needed that.
Got a phone call today from YS school counselor. He went to see her today to talk about a few things that have been bothering him. He told her that he considered killing himself. Even had a plan - that involved a gun his Dad left behind.

I came home early and WH stopped by to take son to football practice. The three of us sat down and we asked son to tell us what was going on, so he spilled his guts. WH still won't take responsibility. Part of the problem, of course, has to be me. I am not "getting over it" and "moving on". The boys can see how sad I am so that makes them sad. if I would just get over it, they would too.
What a delusional piece of crap that was.
I just know - absolutely KNOW in my heart that she is eventually going to DUMP him. He is fat, lazy, and way too into porn. He has very little money, and it will get worse as time goes by. He is a campus cop who likes to wear a gun. He has a quick temper and would tell the boys and I to F*** off if he was mad.
So today he says that the problem with me is that I have different values. I tell him, we are both christian, we BOTH have christian values. He says, yes, but I also like to swear, and you didn't like that, so you are different. Then I add, you also like porn, and I have to tell you that I thank God that crap is out of my house now. He says, yes that too. you didn't like it, but I do.
I didn't like it - but I never made him get rid of it. Now I wish I had.
He took 18 years of my life, that I will never get back.
How could he do that??

rookie can you think of any red flags that come to mind prior to you marrying her?

TMCM. as hard as it is to say this yes, one was that I slept with her way to soon after meeting her. I had not been with a woman for 8 mos. at that time, was drinking and one thing led to another.

Also as stated earlier, I met my W when she was 20, at a bar/restaurant, again I assumed she was at least 25 at the time as it was in a bar. But, the night I did meet her she was on a date with another guy, we did hit it off while talking and she left with me that night.

Two, she had a explosive temper and would yell at the top of her voice if things did not go her way. I did tell her I would not tolerate that and it did stop, till the marriage.

Three, I met her in May, approx. 28th, I later found a parking ticket in her car for like the 30th of May that year for a violation that was by her old BF home at 9:00 Am. in the morning, she lived about 30 miles away at that point, when I asked her about it, she stated she stopped by there to pick up some items.

At the time, I did not think much of those issues, but now when I think of it they were MAJOR red flags.

Hey Rookie, can you come over here and arrest my 13 yr old son please??? He just admitted to smoking marajuana. Him and his friends who have been good friends since 2nd grade all admitted to it. They are all in big trouble. Is it legal to beat him?? No I can't do that. I have been in grief ever since <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Hopefully none of them are addicted now. I'm gonna give it 30 days then get him drug tested to see if he does it again, if he does he will have to go to treatment.

You know this town is infested w/ drugs where are all the cops!! We live in a good neighborhood, and these boys can get it on the
corner, down the street, everywhere. I'm so upset!! Prisons have been built all around this town, and now inmates families have moved into town. I'm really thinking about moving too.
We've been here for 15 yrs though. It would be
a difficult thing to do.

Ladysheep

Lady, sorry to hear about your son.

1st. Call your local police/sheriff, ask to speak with th ejuvenile officer. Most departments will get involved without getting the issues into the legal system.

Your local juvenile officer can speak with your son on a intervention basis, or he has the resources to direct you to proper counseling for the issue.

2nd., Call the school he goes to and ask for the couselor there, advise him/her of what you know and also ask them for help. They will also speak with him. You dont have to name the other boys, but do get help involved immedialtey.

3rd. He, like a WS, has to be accountable to you at all times, who what and where are you going. You wont, as much as you want, terminate the realtionship with the boys that he was doing this with.

4th., Contact the other parents and let them know, there is stregnth in numbers.

5th., SNOOP, it is your son's life, just dont let him know you are doing it he will only hide things better, no sense in educating him.

6th. Advise him, if he is caught by you, you WILL call the police and report him, not much the police can do since he is a juvenile, but the wieght of that hanging over his head will keep him thinking.

Good luck, God bless you, act now.

Jerry/Rookie

Had to break plan B today and speak with the W, but well worth it.

I put in a offer on a home today and since the divorce is not finale, she has to sign off stating that the home purchased is not considered marital property and she has no interest in the purchase of the home and will not pursue it as marital property in the D settlement.

I requested that she sign off on it, by telephone.
She wanted to know how I was going to pay, where at and such, told her how I paid for it was my concern not hers and for her not to worry about any of the other details.

Seemed a little sheepish, but agreed to sign off.More than a little dose of reality set in today.

As always at the S's football games I saw her again, I was dressed very well (I even ironed my jeans and shirt, lol) and requested her to stop by the house and let the dog out as I was going out and did not expect to be in till late. I did not say anything else after she agreed to do so and walked away, continually throughout the game she kept looking my way.

I then talked throughout the 2nd half of the game with a very attractive, divorced mother who's son is also on the team.

I then went to the dog races alone, won $180.00.

Her face does not show any happiness at all and lacks life or emotion. She cannot look me in the face when she talks to me.

Rookie,

Thanks so much for those things I need to do.
You're right!! I have done some of them already. I was in contact w/ the school this week w/ principle and
his resource teacher. Haven't contacted the counselor yet. I am very snoopy now, I'm having a hard time trusting him, and I can tell the drugs are still in his system. He's trying to be very nice, hugs and kisses all day. He's been very clingy. He knows how much he hurt me,
and that doesn't even matter, it's how much it will hurt him. I keep telling him that. He said today that they just tried it, and one of the other kids is more into it, which is true. And he keeps reassuring me he won't do it again.
One of his friends who did it also, is a son of a police officer here, and I talked to him yesterday. He's doing the same things I am.
I talked to one of the other parents, and she
wanted me to spy out her house because her son was having kids there when she wasn't home. She has to work until 5:30, so he has 3 hours to sneak around. He is the one I know is probably addicted. He will need treatment for sure. I talked to him 2 days ago and told him that I want to help him get off drugs, and if he wants help I will be here, if he doesn't I have to walk away. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> The good thing is that we as the parents have got to know each other pretty well, and they all feel like all of our boys, so we care for them all so much. It's really difficult to say to one, you can't hang out with the other now because they have been close friends since 2nd grade (6yrs), and all of those yrs were innocent years, special years.

Right now we just have to keep them scared straight I guess. I am really hoping it was an
experimental thing, and that it won't happen
again. OR ELSE!!

Thanks again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Rookie,

Me again, I have to say I am very proud of the way you handled things today. That was good!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And won $180.00 too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I only won $16.00 today, but hey I'm happy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> !!

Ladysheep

Even when you try to keep these WS's and their insanity out of your life and try to move on they try to exert control over you.

As stated I plan on purchasing a place of my own to live.

I need her to sign a letter, simply put, stating that any purchase of property by myself, will me my sole responciblility, she has no vested interest in the purchase of said property, she will not be liable for any funds to pay or finance said property and will not pursue said property in the divorce settlement as marital property, as said property is intended to be purchased prior to the finalization date of the divorce decree.

Simple, but now I am getting I wont sign this till I get a copy of my own and my attorney reviews it and gives me the OK, she states that this could take a couple days, but I do want my attorney to review it.

I want to e-mail her the copy then let her e-mail her attorney to get the ok for her to sign it, takes all of 5 minutes, but, as long as they can yank your chain, they might as well go for it.

These people always amaze me, one of her statements prior to plan B was, "I did nothing to screw up your life throughout this thing", well, having lost my house, my son's contact on a daily basis, my wife, my health insurance, retirement, all things I have worked for, and she has the nerve to say that she has not screwed up my life. FOG TALK, and now to try to jerk me around when I try to move on,,,, disgusting.

I hope God has a speacial place in his heart for her and the OP, I do.....

One thing I forgot to mention.

The OP in the past had been telling his son of the new life he was going to have when he and the W were married and they supplied him with new brothers and sisters, this was a song and dance he gave the son several times.

I spoke with the OP's W the other day, the OP is now telling the S that he is NOT going to marry the W when the divorces are final,hmmmmm maybe plan B is working in that there has been no interference at all in them two getting together and reality seems to suck. They have been spending the nights together at her apt. when I have my son for the weekend.

He also it telling their friends he is worried that I am going to kill him, laughable, but true. He tells them what the W has told him, saw extensive combat in two tours in Nam, she has heard the stories from people that I had served with and I am sure she repeated them to him. I have to admit the thought had crossed my mind, I would be a liar if I denied it, but he isnt worth it. He is also concerned that I was a police officer for many years and would not hesitate to pull the trigger on him.

I'll leave him that thought, walking around in life looking over your shoulder wondering what is around the next corner is worse than actually having something happening to you.

Way to go Rambo! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You are right it is laughable considering that there are other causes much worthier to fight and sacrifice oneself for than a piece of pond scum like the OM.

Oh and speaking from personal experience, just wait until your social life starts going, then the calls from her will increase dramatically. Unless the affair is an exit type, WS's don't like it when their BS's move on with their lives, but its loads of fun just watching them squirm for a change. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

TMCM, ever think of becoming a psychic, polish up that crystal ball ole boy and start raking in those bucks from the little ole ladies.

You called it right on the head as far as her seeing I am moving on having a independent life and her starting to call.

As I posted earlier, last Sat. I showed up at son's football game dress like I was going out(did not, but gave the impression I was), Sun., I tell her I need for her to sign off on the house I was going to buy for myself., Mon. I was going to watch that miserable game the Bears played against the Pack with some friends and she knew it as I asked her to pick up the son from practice so I could get to the city in time for kick off.

Today, 3 phone calls and 2 e-mails so far. One she is accusing me of being a bad father as I did not take the son to the city to watch the game, not to say that it ended at about 11:30 or so at night and I got home after midnight.

She stated that since our local school district is on strike I could have taken him and kept him overnight, right, if she thought of this before she should have mentioned it when I told her I was going in the first place. She knew I was watching the game with my brother, she was very close to the sister-in-law, and now she only has Jon.

Funny I am a Bears fan (could never give a good reason why) but the OP is a Pack fan, I think I might have screwed some plans up for him to watch the game with her, but, oh well, she as a single parent does have some responcibility now I guess.

Anyhow she tells me that since I am a bad father she wants to go for sole custody. I did not argue with her, simply told her she would be in for the fight of her life if that was her intention.

She then says the son is depressed I did not take him to the game with me. Again, did not argue with her, simply told her you are the one that created this monster, I guess if you didnt have a boyfriend that screwed our marriage up we wouldnt be talking about this now, told her I was not going to argue with her after she said that is not true, and hung up,,, FOGGED OUT MORON.

Well, she calls two more times, I see it on the caller ID and dont answer. She sends me a e-mail stating that she would like to talk to me about our son when he is not around. I told her to refer to the letter (plan B letter) which I wrote her explaining that I would not talk to her till this nonsense is over.

TMCM, your tooo damned good, tell me oh psyhic one, what am I in store for next from her.

Not to jump Coffeeman's response.

My sealed envelop guess is... turning S against you and the ever popular restraining order.

JL

TMCM, where art thou???

Between my last post at approx. 4Pm and 5PM., she has called 4 times.

She starts out that if we are to raise our child mutually, at which point I said no, not mutually, you are living elsewhere than I, when he is with me I will raise him as I see fit and hang up,

2nd call, states, you are not going to raise him as you see fit, I respond, when he is with you, you raise him as you see fit, when he is with me, I will do the same, good bye.

3rd. call, I simply say yes?, she starts your son, I say I told you I dont want to talk to you, hang up

5th, repeat of the same.

The point of this is she always had to maintain some form of control over me,

When she was here, it was I'll move out, I cant feel passion for you, sex is cut off, I cant sleep in the same bed with you, moved to another room.

She moves out, then it's, if you do this or that, I'll divorce you and take away your medical insurance.

OK, so now she files for the big D, I am moving on, now she wants to still maintain control by using the son as the hammer.

Seems that if things were perfect in camelot, why is she bugging the hell out of me. I've been great in plan B for about a month or so now where I will only discuss events in our son's life and financial issues that are of joint concern.

TMCM, I'd love to hear what ya think on this spin of events. I really dont want to invest any emotions on her. Do ya think I should simply keep reminding her of the plan b letter, that is if she still has it or just leave it alone?

Since she is psycho babbling you may want to consider PB'ing her back with little howlers like 'I know you want me but for the last time the answer is NO I am not going to have phone sex with you' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Better yet get a female acquaintance to record a message on your answering machine and just watch the number of her calls reach an all time high (she may show up at your door wearing nothing but a sexy babydoll from Victoria's secretions <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). But seriously, the woman is craving for attention from you and the more you tell her to buzz off the more she will seek it. The best advice I can give you on handling these crank calls from her is to see the humor in them and laugh your butt off (it will do wonders for your health).

[ September 30, 2003, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

Well, life goews on.

The house I was bidding on, or should I say waiting to bid on till I recieved the letter from the W that she had no interest in it was bid out under me while I was waiting for said letter from her.

House was on the market for 246 days, go figure, I want to buy it and suddenly while I am waiting, it gets sold.

Seems like THEY ALWAYS get you, these WS's just keep sticking it to ya, knowingly or unknowingly. Just have to keep looking now.

I am going out of town with some friends on a fishing trip next weekend. Sent her a e-mail that she will have to watch the dog as I am going out of town with no further explanation to her, let her wonder what is up.

Hey Rookie!

Sounds like you are really jamming her good!!!

Make sure that you still request that letter from her. Let her pay her attorney to review it and send it back to you. She doesn't need to know that it was sold out from under you. If she finds out that she unintentionally jammed you, it will just fuel her fog.

Keep up the good work!

r0uter

rOuter, how are ya, have not seen ya here for awhile. Hope things are going well for you.

Yes, I still am getting her to sign that letter in the event I find something else that I wish to buy I dont want to wait on her to stall the deal and loose another house.

As simple as the letter states, my 11 year old son could understand it. But, being who she is now she needs to have a attorney explain to her that she has no interest in any purchase of a home I am considering and that she is not financially responcible for any future purchases of said home I make, duhhhh. So yeah, let her pay for the obvious answer she shall recieve.

Atleast this attempt to jerk me around is going to cost her a few bucks.

TMCM hit it right on the head, yesterday was the day from hell with her, I have distanced myself from her insanity and she is making any and all attempts to keep it up, at least keeping the insanity part. I went to my car this morning, there was phone calls from her on the cell phone also, maybe the OP should advise her to get a clue, God knows I cant get her to understand it.

I sent her a e-mail today telling her that we must sell this house, there fore I want a price reduction.

This just isnt fun anymore.

I have the divorce papers, she is requesting over the state required 20 percent for one dependent child, for me to pay mortgage on the house, even though her name is on the mortgage and a host of other things that is also her responcibility. My attorney will shoot down a lot of her requests.

All this so she could get laid. I know the world isnt fair, but somehow she has a price to pay for what she has done in all this.

I just cant get over how stupid this whole thing is and how cold hearted she is.

Vent..........

Rookie fight the temptation to call her up and blast her to smithereens because you would be playing right into her trap. If she calls you and asks you about the divorce papers, just ignore her and ask how your son is, for his wellbeing is the ONLY reason why you would want to have any contact with her. Become a stone wall in your dealings with her.

TMCM, nope been sticking to the promise to myself that I would no longer invest my emotions in her by speaking with her.

I have kept all communications by e-mail STRICTLY about my son, or, as I am going fishing up north with some friends next week, about the care of the dog while I am gone.

I know the ultimate goal of most on this site is to reconciliate with the WS, she has me to the point that, that thought is not there any longer. As I have said many times in the past, I still the the woman she WAS, but that person does not exist any longer.

I just want to sell my house at this point and move on with my life, but it seems she has placed roadblocks and forced me to live in limbo.

vent....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
I know the ultimate goal of most on this site is to reconciliate with the WS, she has me to the point that, that thought is not there any longer. As I have said many times in the past, I still the the woman she WAS, but that person does not exist any longer.

I just want to sell my house at this point and move on with my life, but it seems she has placed roadblocks and forced me to live in limbo.

vent....[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>You WILL move on with your life. That is for the good. The roadblocks won't last forever. Probably she put them there because SHE isn't so sure she's doing the best thing for HER life.

Moving on is inevitable. I guess I'm trying to comfort and support you, is all. As well as acknowledging that the faithful spouse deserves to be happy and healthy, and recover their own selves.

She gambled and she lost. And you are one painful loss for her, because you are a good man. She really traded down.

You are right about that goal but don't forget that there is another goal and that is to help the BS recover in the eventuality that the marriage cannot be saved. But keep in mind that you want to maintain a civil relationship with her not because she deserves it but because your son does. Besides, as you've already seen for yourself, the best way to get back at her is by simply living and enjoying your life as though she no longer is a part of it.

TMCM, maybe I am a bit confused, but since being in Plan B, I have not spoken to her and if she calls I simply say I do not want to talk to you and hang up, not being a smart ars, but is that civil enough or should I give her the It's to painful to speak with you routine.

When I see her at football practice, I lay the equiptment bags either at her feet or in the back of her car and walk away saying nothing.

Bellevue, those were very kind words and I do appreciate it, times are hard now.

She did send me a email stating that she could not watch the dog if the rabies shots were not current while I was out of town , per apartment regulations, checked the date they were expired since June, was able to BS the vet to get in this morning and have all shots updated. Wonder what she will come up with now to say she cant watch the dog.

Even though most communiques of yours have been through e-mail, by your own admission there have been some words on your part towards her such as:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"simply told her you are the one that created this monster, I guess if you didnt have a boyfriend that screwed our marriage up we wouldnt be talking about this now, told her I was not going to argue with her after she said that is not true, and hung up,,,"<hr /></blockquote>Not that you are wrong (you are right on the money), but the last thing you want to do is lose your cool because doing so is letting her know that she has the power to push your emotional buttons. You get much more from ignoring her and acting indifferent towards her than responding to any of her nonsense fog talk. Overall I'd say that you are doing a fine job.

TMCM, thanks for the reply. I at times do speak faster than the mind can stop it, but have made a extreme effort to keep repeating thos lines of, I dont want to talk to you, that way it keeps it simple.

At time though I have to admit, it gets me going and I do respond, but that has not happened, at least this week so far....lol

Hi Rookie,

Just wanted to say "Hi!!" I haven't been here in a few days. Been preparing for a yard sale for today and tomorrow, and it rains!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I think your lawyer will be able to handle what she is trying to toss at you with the divorce papers. And I hope you can get the house sold soon, so that is not over your head w/ her.

I know it isn't easy for you Rookie, but you are making a lot of good progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Hi Lady, thanks for the words of encouragement.

I just came back from my son's football game. She was there with her parents. I tried to not even look at her and did not speak to either her or her parents.

I would love to just grab her by her ears and start shaking her asking her what the hell are you thinking.

I had my son all weekend and went to a family party. He tells me that he(age 10) was talking with his other cousins and everyone knows mom is cheating and are not talking very highly of her.

He said he at least was able to talk to people about it and get it out how he feels. For the first time he stated that he is very hurt about what she is doing and that the marriage is breaking up, otherwise I was getting her spin from him that he was OK, and that it did not bother him. Was a very difficult conversation with him, he breaks my heart that he at his age has to live with the ramifications of what his mother is doing.

He is embarassed about it, but at least he is starting to talk about it. I wish he would open up with his feeling to her without repeating the mantra she is giving him.

This is almost laughable.

As stated in a ealier post I brought my son to a family party. While there my brother asked my son if he wanted to stay with him a couple days to get away from the problems in the marriage.

My son asked the W if he could, she stated that he could not as my brother is a bad influence on him.

I guess being married, cheating on your H with another married man, lying and saying things your H supposedly had done to justify your A, lying to the son about the A even existing, sneaking around and having the married BF over to the apart. for sexual gratification is a better influence. When will this crap end....

Vent

Rookie your son is no dummy (unlike his mom) but I worry how his mother's behavior might be sending him the wrong message as far as how women, in general, are. You MUST, if you haven't done so already, tell him that not all women behave in such fashion otherwise he might grow up to have a very negative and unrealistic view of women.

TMCM, I have spoken with him that it is not good for a married woman to be going out with another man other than her husband. She, the W has told him it is OK as a divorce is pending, and we are married only on paper. Sick....

I am going out of town on a fishing trip till Sunday night with some friends, I have to get out of here for awhile.

I asked her to sign the paper which releases her of any liability as far as her paying, and she will not pursue the property purchased as marital property if I purchase a home prior to the date
of the divorce. She will not sign it saying that when I sign the divorce papers I am free to do what I want and that it is not in HER best interest to sign them.

So, in a effort to put the hammer on me she refuses which puts me in limbo with no place to live till I sign divorce papers.

The papers her attorney have prepared are nothing short of giving her my monthly pension, I am not signing what she has proposed as she is requesting over and above what the state requires me to pay for child support and a few other issues she wants me to pay for, such as the mortgage and related household bills till the house is sold.

Not only is she in a major fog, but being quite unreasonalbe as well. Her BF makes over 30K a year more than I do, but she wants me to pay a $100.00 a month less than he does, guess they are trying to make up the differance in what he is paying by trying to jam me.

I meet with my attorney soon to discuss what can be done.

As Always..... VENT.............

Consider asking your attorney to go on the offensive and ask for alimony from her. Even though it may be a longshot, it will certainly send her a message that the kids gloves are off.

Boy am I in the same situation. My WW has acknoledged multiple kissing sessions with the OM, and today she had the audacity to say this is all about me, and to look at myself. However, when I ask when they first kissed, she says "none of your business. I'm not going to give you the satisfaction."

She seems so cruel to me. We've been married for 12 years, and have 2 daughters, 5 and 7. For more of the miserable details, see I'm pretty sure

Yesterday, I sent an email to the OM and most all of her friends. She said I was pathetic, and there was nothing going on (although the email was simply a rewording of what she had admitted). She threatened a restraining order (haha).

Tried to work on plan A today. Was a good father, took her out to lunch, but she turned so cruel in the afternoon. It shocked me. It's so hard to stay the course and not get rattled/discouraged in the face of such obstacles.

Just came back from the UP in Michigan, was with a group of guys aged 21-85, had a great time, fishing sucked so we cut firewood, rode the 4 wheelers all day and watched the Cubs games.

Learned I cannot keep up with the younger ones in the group, sore as hell, but put up a good showing.

Was great to get away from all this for the week, but, am back and waiting for her to start again. Called the son everyday I was up there when she answered the phone, simply asked to speak with my son.

She left me a message on my voice mail advising me to be more responcible, and leave a number where I could be reached while I was up there, for a moment I thought I was trying to get away from her, how stupid of me. besides that my best friend was with me, if she NEEDED to get ahold of me she could have recieved the number by simply calling them and asking.

Have a meeting set with my attorney on Tues., gonna give him the green light to do what ever it takes to end this and stop her insanity

Well, it didnt take long for her to get to me.

She give me a letter when she drops off the dog last night asking if my son can go to a event with her on Sunday. I stated that I wanted to know who she is going with and to what type of event it is since it is MY day with the son.

I told her if Jon is going, my son will not as I will not openly expose to him to the affair and that my son will not be transported in a vehicle operated by a alcoholic (this was done via:e-mail)

Well, she responds, by phone, that she is going to a church event for a friend, I started laughing when she called with that one. Broke Plan B big time, but couldnt resist, asked her when did she find religion, did she ever ask her friend in the church if infidelity/adultery is the path that people who follow a religous belief follow?.

She responds, I am not a adultress?????? I about fell out of the chair laughing, I aksed her what do you call it when your married and your F***ING and man married to someone else.

I then informed her that my son will not go to the church event with her, I do not want to place him in a postition to defend a hypocrit and hung up.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />She responds, I am not a adultress?????? I about fell out of the chair laughing, I aksed her what do you call it when your married and your F***ING and man married to someone else.<hr /></blockquote>Talk about a thick fog bank in that woman's mind. Just like ships of old that crashed against the shore because there was no lighthouse beacon to warn them, your stbxww will also one day crash big time against reality (mine sure did) except that in her case there was a beacon (you) that she chose to ignore.

Morning TMCM good to hear from you.

The OP's W called very early this morning as she had a discussion concerning the audultery issue with her H.

He informs her that they are not committing adultery as both he and my W are seperated from me and the OP's W.

He is STILL living in her house and there is no divorce decree as of yet,my W has moved out, but again, no finalization of the divorce in hand, but in their fogged heads they are not committing audultery.

I could loose my sanity if I took what they said to heart, but I am at the point I can actually laugh at some of their insanity, it is pitiful.

I also checked a web site for the state OP visits alot. W said I was a alcoholic for years, drank on weekends and maybe a couple beers a day at that time. I NO LONGER DRINK AT ALL.

Well, her new found love has two alcohol related arrests on record. He has been to two counselors in regads to his drinking, both diagnosed him as a alcoholic, but according to him, they are wrong and he refused to seek treatment, was called in by his boss, who happens to be my W's boss also and advised not to come to work under the influence and longer, his W states he is drinking more now than ever, but he is a great guy with no problems.

I guess in time, things can only get better for her,,,,,right. If she stays as fogged as she is now and over looks all his faults as she has been, I should have custody of my son in no time flat.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />rookie:

"I could loose my sanity if I took what they said to heart, but I am at the point I can actually laugh at some of their insanity, it is pitiful."<hr /></blockquote>That's because you are rational and acknowledge the old saying: 'you can't argue with a sick mind'.

If we were to follow their line of thinking then she is a man with a vagina and he is a woman with a penis. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Big pla B buster, but here were two questions I e-mailed her since she doesnt understand the term adulteress.

1. Since you have found God and now are attending services, ask one of the church elders if your actions of sleeping with another man while you are married yourself is termed adultery.

2. Should I or OP's W die prior to the finalization of the divorce, how long would it take either of you to claim you WERE still married to either of us to claim my pension for the rest of your life or him, any insurance that would list him as a beneficiary so long as they are married.

I know I am supposed to go underground, but I am to the point I dont care, this marriage is over till she looses the drunk, it sure as hell seems like that is not going to happen none too soon and I had to throw those questions for her to stew on.

BTW, OP did ask his W for sex last night,,, hope when he wakes from his drunken stupor he can explain that one to the W.( in the e-mail I advised her to ask the sober one about this)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
Big pla B buster ... I know I am supposed to go underground, but I am to the point I dont care, this marriage is over till she looses the drunk, it sure as hell seems like that is not going to happen none too soon and I had to throw those questions for her to stew on.<hr /></blockquote>At this rate and your choices to stay too long in plan A and creates holes in plan B ... even she dump the drunk you might want her anymore.

Knowing is useless unless you applied it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I use Dr. Phil favorite line ... "how is it working for you so far ?"

-rh-

redhat, agree with you on the part about wanting her any longer, I DO have feelings for as she was.
As she is now, NO.

I have done pretty good in plan B for several weeks, but the church thing really got to me. I dont know how she can EVEN think about being a person of beliefs when she is doing what she is.

For her to deny the audultery issue is just way beyond anything I can describe. I know it was wrong to contact her, really, havent spoken with her in quite awhile, but I am a person who detests hypocrisy and could not help myself by addressing that issue with her, not that it did any good, but, was way beyond my level of self control to not address that one.

Anyhow it will be back to the no zone of any contact with her. I really have nothing else that I can think of that I wish to tell her or discuss with her while she is at this level of fog.

Have you thought that she may be pushing your buttons to communicate with her? Besides why communicate with this woman who is nowhere near the person that you use love and respect? Go back to no contact and if she e-mail's you anything regarding your son, just answer her yes or no without further explanations. Remember that your silent indiference hurts her more than any amount of words you may throw back at her.

TMCM, she is in such a fog now with the thought that she is in love and that they are doing the right thing.

Yes, the no communication did get to her, I still see it in her face, that speaks louder than anything she might say.

I was in a very good NC, only did e-mail her inregards to the little guy, but again, the adultress issue sent me off the edge. As far as she is concerned, yep, I am off the radar screen for her once again, there is nothing else I can say or want to.

rookie,

Anger is not a sin unless when you dwell on it and act on it. I have NC w/ my exW even up to today. I did it out of self preservation ...

-rh-

I had a two hour meeting with my attorney yesterday. We did a page by page review of what the W is asking for in the divorce and rebutted the issues at hand as well as include issues I felt were necesary for the proper upbringing of my child.

The paperwork should be submitted to her attorney within a week or so, I'll be hanging on for the calls and accusations to start.

Some notable issues I included.

1. OP will have no disciplinary rights over my son, he cannot physically or verbally discipline him, only W.

2. Son cannot be transported in a vehilce operated by a person who has injested alcohol or other mind altering subtances 12 hour prior.

3. No person of the opposite sex can spend the night at W's home while son is there.

4. ALL holidays are alternating(she had christmas eve as her exclusive night with him)

5. Child support brought into the required state statutes, 25 per. less than she was requesting, also all clothing purchased for son to come from child support, not from me as she indicated.

There were other issues, but the above were biggies to her.

The OP moved this week, his apt. in now directly behind the W's, I hope she spends as much time as possible with the alcoholic bum as possible and reality kicks her in the butt big time, oh but wait, according to her he doesnt drink, wish she can explain the 2 alcohol related arrests(I sent her copies from the state indidcating such a bit ago) the fact that he was called in by the boss and told not to come to work drunk anymore and his W who stated to the date he moved he was still hitting the bottle hard. But hey, he is a great guy and we can overlook these minor detail as long as he makes HER feel good.

May she enjoy her new life.

rookie,

I would have 3 phone# very handy (on speed dial) in the following order 911, local child services, and your lawyer.

One wrong move by OM (violent or drunk) in front of your kids, you should take your kid out from that environment and seek full custody and only let her have visitation (supervise).

-rh-

rookie...understand that i take a back seat to no man in my disgust and anger at cheating lyer but that aside, can i respectfully make a small suggestion. try to tone down the name calling and angry behavior in general.

your W has an is behaving abominally...NO QUESTION about it! and her fogged out brain is a testement to all that could make murderer out of a saint....BUT...she is still the mother of your child and you will still need to deal with her in the coming years. so may i suggest that for the sake of your son you just try to cool it a bit?

sorry...i don't mean to get preachy so please forgive my intrusion.

coach

redhat, best believe I'll be all over that one, Having worked in law enforcement for 28 years I would not hesitate to take my son out of enviorment in a New York second.

I have sent the OP a e-mail explaining to him that he WILL NOT discipline my son in any way shape or form, should disicpline be necesary, the W will handle such, in either case, it will not by physical.

I am more than mildly concerned about the OP's contact with my son, and I am more than concerned what my reaction to him would be should he ever strike my son.

It is bad enough that he will be exposed to this guy, I really dont know if I could control myself if he ever laid a hand on him.I have seen way to many times the results of some bimbo dragging a drunk into the home and the resulting affects on the kids, I hated it when it was other peoples kids and had NO sympathy on the idiot and prosecuted them to the fullest extent, but good God, this is now my own son I have to be concerned about.

Coach, I am sorry but she opened herself up for that one when she started talking the religous aspect with me, I lost it when I heard how close the OP moved to her. It was incorporated in the divorce papers that he should not spend the night when my son was present and this is their attempt to cicumvent that order.

I am not going to apologize for having no respect for her at all at this point, she knows this clowns past performance and she is knowingly bringing him into my son's life.

I know I cant control that and it simply makes me sick.

One unrelated issue I found kinda humorous. While reviewing the divorce papers I notice who the judge is on the last page that was assigned the case.

The divorce cas was assigned to a judge who's son I arrested bout 3 years ago for dealing drugs,,, think I am asking it to be assigned to another judge. I did bring it to my attorney's attention, without a doubt it will be reassigned.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
 One unrelated issue I found kinda humorous. While reviewing the divorce papers I notice who the judge is on the last page that was assigned the case.

The divorce cas was assigned to a judge who's son I arrested bout 3 years ago for dealing drugs,,, think I am asking it to be assigned to another judge. I did bring it to my attorney's attention, without a doubt it will be reassigned. <hr /></blockquote><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Yikes! Good catch rookie. The last thing you want is that guy handling your divorce case and salivating the payback he's going to give you. Besides even if he was fair minded with your divorce case, it would certainly just add more stress to your present life and THAT is definitely something you can do without.

TMCM, that was one thing I am glad I did catch.
The charges against the goof were dropped for one of those obscure technical reasons, didnt matter that I observed the whole deal, the drugs and money exchange hands, then went one step further and called a drug dog in to search, the dog also finds the drous as I observed, but,,,,,

Gives ya some kind of idea how I would stand in court against this judge... NO THANKS.

Anyhow, today was homecoming for my son's football team, they won and are going into the playoffs.

Being that it was homecoming there was a pizza party, the W does not show up. It is OP's moving day to the apartment behind her, guess that fully explains who in the scheme of things is more important. Even her son is pushed to the background when it comes to the OP, disgusting and pathetic does not even begin to describe my feelings about her.

rookie I want to convey to you that as hard as this may seem for you to do, please try to eliminate all bitterness(B) and resentment(R) against your WW. I'm telling you this as a fellow BS (multiple times in fact) and because I found out firsthand that those two (B and R) are truly poisonous to my soul. Please ask yourself 'What good is it to be right if it ends up costing me my soul?'. I have since met and married a wonderful woman (she too was a BS in her previous marriage) but I can assure you that if I had nourished B and R in my soul, I would not have been able to move forward with my life and meet this woman who has truly shown me what true love is all about. There are so many beautiful (both spiritually and physically) women out there that would die to have a man like you that it would be truly tragic if you would let B and R take permanent residence in your soul. Your greatest enemy is not your stbxWW but B and R.

TMCM, as always you are correct.

My big issue right now is selling this house. It is to the point I HATE coming home, there are to many memories here, compund that with the loneliness it is overwhelming at times.

I do thank God for several people who always seem to be around when I am in my deepest funk, I have found who the truest of my friends are and without sounding cheesy, I will cherish those people till I die.

I have thought about dating but gave up on that thought, just wouldnt be fair to go out with someone at this point. I talk a good line, but when I reflect on everything, and I hate to admit this, I am still in love with my W and miss her and my son.

Somehow it almost feels like a game. Today when she picked up my son I was in the garage, it is one of two things, she is either feeling guilt and doubt beyond belief or she hates me more than I will ever know, the look on her face is not the look of someone who is confident in their decision or of happiness, I wish I knew which one.

Everyone who knew us as a couple has said that she will try to come back sooner or later as alot of them know the OP and have said there is no comparison between the two of us and she will realize she made a bad choice.

She is way too stubborn to EVER admit she made a mistake, even if she did I dont know if I would be receptive to her attempts to reconcile if she ever thought that way after everything that happened. I feel gutted, and I dont know after all that has happened if I could ever trust her again. Some of the things she has done is way beyond being cold, cruel would be more descriptive.

Well, today I get a call from my attorney, he says the W is to appear in court in the morning to obtain a emergency order of protection, I asked what the grounds were, he stated she is claiming I threatened her.

Funny, havent spoken with her for over a week and the last conversation was in regards to her calling and wanting to have my son on the afternoon that was my day with him.

The orders in this state are issued like candy, and are pretty much standard in divorce cases, it actually makes things easier for me if she starts her rampage on the phone with numerous calls or e-mails, I cannot respond, that folks is a good thing.

There have been several times I have sat with the phone in hand and simply kept hanging up on her, lucky for me, there has always been someone with me when she was on one of her rages and others that were have asked me if she is crazy.

I could easily make the claim that SHE is the one that has harrassed me, but I am not going to bother to go through the expense or trouble.

Guess I'm back to the she makes me sick mode...lol

Rookie

Are you now going to avail yourself of a third party to help in the pick up and drop off of your son?

The only people in the area that would be available for that would be her parents and that would be like placing the noose around my neck myself if I complied with that.

I will agree to exchanging him in a public place like a McDonalds or a Burger King where I will arrive with him in my vehicle, windows up and I will not exit the car.

I keep thinking this cant get any crazier, each time she prooves me wrong.

Now the 'fun' begins, so you better get ready for a slew of phone calls and e-mails from her.

How long before you sell the house?

Sure as I am sitting here she will try to contact me in regards to some kind of contrived emergency concerning my son, then try to bait me into a conversation.

The answer is simple, if it is a emergency which hospital should I respond to, if it is in regards to any other issues concerning my son, put it in writting and I will hang up.

e-mails, as of now I have removed her from my address book, funny I did save e-mails I sent her in early Sept. that I would only correspond with her via:e-mail as I would not subject myself to any further false claims by her, glad I put all those in a e-mail folder

Actually this order helps immensley, as I can simply hangup on her or not respond to her e-mails, by her choice to be a idiot, she is enforcing a total plan b and making it simple.

Only hard part will be that I will not let my son call from my cell or house phone, if she did she could claim I was the one that called and made one of those threats, I am still trying to figure that one out, but she would have a record of a call originating from my phones.

I will have to tell my son that I could be placed in jail for violating the order if such a claim was made, that is the rough part of the insanity she created. But otherwise I accept this as a blessing in disguise, I will never tell her that, but....

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:

Only hard part will be that I will not let my son call from my cell or house phone, if she did she could claim I was the one that called and made one of those threats, I am still trying to figure that one out, but she would have a record of a call originating from my phones.

I will have to tell my son that I could be placed in jail for violating the order if such a claim was made, that is the rough part of the insanity she created. But otherwise I accept this as a blessing in disguise, I will never tell her that, but....<hr /></blockquote>Did you ask your attorney about this?

TMCM, not being a smart ars, but on the job experience in these order of protection issues?, I have a immense amount of.

As I stated earlier, in this state a W can obtain one very easily, then they use it as a whip to control the divorce to their liking if the H is stupid enought to violate it in any matter, which in this state does wind ya in the cooler for a time.

I have seen many abuses of these orders and do not need a attorney to tell me that, again this is said with respect as I have been put in the position on the job to enforce these orders.

In my case, I will not take ANY chance of her making any further false claims against me.

While on the subject of these orders of protection, Police DO feel they are the biggest violation of constitutional rights that ever were, in that a man can be tossed out of his house, based soley on his W's testimony with no supporting evidence. He can loose everything he worked for as when the sheriff shows with the order, the H is usually immediatley removed from the residence. I have seen more than several instances where a self employed capenter, mechanic and the like were tossed from their home, then had all his tools and such given away to her relatives or sold.

Bill Clinton can debate the meaning of IT for days on the stand to calrify accusations against him, but in this state all it takes is the accusation of a woman who just might have ulterior motives for a guy to loose everything, I am sure all the woman libers out there are proud of that one, but it is the God given truth and it made me sick enforcing some of these orders.

I have seen a FEW in my career which were legitimate, but most were used to manuever the divorce along to her favor.

If she has resorted to this tactic, you may want to consider going for her jugular (legally of course).

TMSM, sometimes the best offense is no offense at all,

Should I go for the juglar it would just prolong the divorce, I am to the point I want this over as soon as possible. To do that, if I would start going after her it would simply take longer.

Most times simply letting things go with the flow is the best way.

Last night my son asked me why I didnt ask for him in the divorce and why did I just let mom have him.

My answer was honest and simple, the W parents have money, they would finance any child custody hearing to the point that I would find it impossible to go on with it.

He then asked if my mother had money to finance a custody hearing. She does not.

I informed him that if he chose to live with me, all he would have to do is say so, without explaining it to him, the courts would grant me custody, the only fight she would have is to find me as a unfit father, well, I dont drink, I am retired and available to him 24x7, am not involved with anyone at all, let alone a person who's been arrested for alcohol related offenses or of such a moral standing that he left his OWN child to have a A with a married woman.

The point of this is, if my S was not thinking aboout moving in with me, he never would have asked that question. Once introduced to the knight in shinning armor that she brings home, it is just a matter of time.

I want to establish my OWN residence and get on with my life so when that day does come there can be no arguement.

I still have honored my vows and have not gone out with other women, let's compare her moral standards and mine in a court of law and let them determine who is the parent that is more stable.

She does not stand a chance, and it would cost me nothing more than the price to file the paperwork at that point should the son ask. I think that is one of her fears and the reason for filing this OP, she is trying to establish that I am not as stable as I am. Good luck.

I receieved the first phone call from the W this morning. Fortunatley, it was on my cell and the battery was dead as I left it on all night. As I plugged it in for recharge the message was there.

She wants me to take our son trick or treating in OUR neighborhood on Sunday as he doesnt wasnt to go where he is presently living, although it is in the same city, bout 2 miles away.

Two things here, first the son is not all that comfortable as to where he is currently living and want to be around his friends.

Second, there would be nothing to prohibit HER from taking him in the neighborhood, it is my belief that she is too embarassed to face the neighbors knowing what she is doing and for the fear they also know.

Makes me think that this whole situation is bothering her and she is not so solid in her beliefs as she like to put off that she is.

I will take my S, although it is her day to have him, it will be a good time.

Rookie you and your son will be enjoying a wholesome evening of trick or treating while she digs herself deeper and deeper into an emotional and spiritual pit of her own making. The worst betrayal she commited was ultimately against herself.

She actually did me a favor, I was bummed that she was going to have him on that day, now it is one I can enjoy. I'd thank her, but I cant talk to her....lol

I love trick or treating, it's just too bad that my youngest has already decided that she's too old for it. Oh well, maybe when I become a grandfrather I'll get the chance to take my grandchildren out for a night of fun.

Hi Rookie,

Just came to say "Hi", I have been soooo busy lately, that I hardly get time here anymore.
But just to let you know I'm thinking of you.

I think your son is having a difficult time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , but I'm glad he can talk to you the way he does. He misses living w/ you!!!!! He misses his home, his "whole" family. It sounds like he wants to live w/ you. I would love nothing more than to see him live w/ you. He has gone through a lot of pain, and now he is in a place he is not at all comfortable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> with. Who would be???? Poor little guy!! I know you would win in court!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sent with Love, Ladysheep

Lady, I am not sure he knows exactly as to what he wants at this point. He loves both of us and wants to beleive mom and me, but with the daily dose of how terrible I am shovled to him by the W and IL'S he is confused, I just have to make life as stable for him as possible and treat him with the respect and love that he deserves. In time, he will know, I wont have to say anything or do anything. Kids do pick up this stuff on their own.

I was awoke this morning by the Sheriff's office and served with the order of protection, laughable when I read it.

The order simply states that I am not to e-mail her at work or leave voice mail for either her or her co-workers, but it is OK to call her house or e-mail at home, sounds more than crazy when you are applying for a emergency order stating you fear the other party.

The judge did order that we BOTH get a psychiatric evaluation. Made me laugh that I have been involved in many orders when I was on the job and this is the 1st that I have seen that the petitioner ordered to have that evaluation, seems like she must have made a impression on the judge and that he has qustions and something just isnt right.

The other part of it is that now the evaluation report will be part of the record in the divorce proceedings, available to the judge who oversees the divorce. Had she not acted the way she did, the divorce would have gone foreward under the auspices of irreconcilable differences. Now, the evaluation will contain all the gory details for the judge to review, again, whether or not she understands this, she did me a MAJOR favor.

How does that old saying go? 'Give a man (or woman) enough rope and (s)he'll hang him/herself.'

Weird, she gets a order of protection against me saying I cant call her or e-mail her at work.

Today so far she has called three times, all issues that she could have resolved herself or were self explanitory, such as I called the realtor told her to drop the price of the house to a certain amount.

W calls says I spoke with realtor, repeats my conversation w/realtor and says she agrees, I say absolutley nothing and hang up.

Vent.. for no other purpose..

Well, the OP had his son overnight at his apt for the 1st time last night. My son was at the W's.
Since you could spit at each other through their open windows their aprt. are that close. I am curious if my son was introduced to the NEW kid in the complex.

My W told him she would not intro him to the OP till my S told her he was ready to meet him, very kind of her to be so concerned about his emotional well being.

Considering that both are still married to other people I find it deplorable to bring these kids into the A, and there is nothing I can do about it.

I am completely demoralized by the W trying to rationalize the A to my S, and to teach him that what she is doing is moral. My S is 10, he does not deserve to be exposed to this sordid A, as well as his S who is 8.

It makes me literally sick to think of what these two are teaching these kids.

The W drops my son off yesterday bout noon,it was her scheduled weekend with the S, tells son that she wished to speak with me.

I ask W what she needs, she askes, what is it going to take to speed the D along. I inform her that I have reviewed her proposed settlement with my attorney last week and that my attorney is now out of state. She would receive my proposal as soon as her attorney gets it. Says I am delaying the D. I advise her I am not signing anything that would be detrimental to myself. If she is in such a hurry to marry the OP, she is going to have to wait till the terms are mutually agrred upon.

Says, she wishes to discuss it further, I advise her I have nothing to say to her as I will not be accused of any further false claims and close the door on her.

S came to the house supposedly to trick or treat, he says he doesnt want to, brought his games, which we played till she picked him up at 4:45 Pm., and handed out candy to the trick or treaters.

She calls after she picks him up and asks what terms of her settlment proposal do I not agree with, I advised her to speak withher attorney as I would not discuss it with her, without thinking, I simply said, I still love who you WERE, there was no thought prior to blurting this out, it was wrong, but it did slide out, and I hung up.

I hope you are keeping notes of HER CONTACTING YOU! Why put yourself in that position to speak, email or talk to someone who has a COURT ORDER AGAINST YOU! That is just asking for more trouble. It may seem funny to you, but in the courts eye, you look like the angry, stalking ex-husband, especially with the I STILL LOVE WHO YOU ARE COMMENT! She can use that against you too by saying I called to talk regarding settlement or son and he started with the OBSESSIVE I LOVE YOU'S! I could be wrong but it seems you are doing more harm to your case than good! No contact!

trying, I have not spoken with her AT ALL, I hang up the phone, close the door and such, I love who you WERE, was a comment that flew out without thought, wont happen again.

Yes, I am keeping a record of how many times she calls, the court order prohibits any contact with her while she is at work, so she takes it that she is free to call me at home, today twice so far, again I hang up.

I will not put myself in a position for her to make any further false claims.

The divorce is not final yet, and I dont want her using any contacts as a hammer.

I use this forum as a way of keeping a log of what is going on.

Thought about the conversation, as brief as it was on Sunday.

She claimed that she received a e-mail from her attorney Sunday stating that the proposal for the D was pulled from the table.

My first thought was that it is hard enough to get a attorney to respond during normal work hours of the week, and her attorney e-mails her on a Sunday morning to say they pulled the offer????

Second thought about this is that a attorney will not pull any offer which was agreed upon by the plantiff and the representing attorney without first contacting the plantiff to explain the reasons why a offer was pulled, what remedies they would expect in response to the reconsideration, and the attorney would not pull it without the consent of the plantiff.

For her to say she was totally unaware of the actions of her attorney is complete b.s, I feel she was sniffing out to see where I was with her offer, although my attorney did state on Saturday the offer was pulled (I have known my attorney for over 25 years). If my attorney knew about it on Sat. and he was out of town all week, and he finds the time to call me on a Sat., she knew darn well her proposal was yanked from the table and the reasons why,hmmm.

Everyday brings a issue to hand. Yesterday, I changed the loan on my motorcycle to get her off the loan, I closed the joint checking account, she was writting checks out of that account and I had no idea as to where I was financialy on a day to day basis, Althought the mortgage came out of that account, I redirected the payments to me so I could take care of it, and her car payment which was a automatic withdrawal from the account has been stopped. I will advise her to make other arraingements to pay for her car.

I almost forgot.

I have read here numerous times how the WS rewrites the history of your marriage when they are involved in a A.

A few days ago I was cleaning out some drawers and came across a journal she kept while I was dispatched to Calif. on a investigation.

In the journal, which was written 4 years ago, mind you she claims our marriage has been in the pits for the last 5 years, she states that she has come to realize how important we are to each other, that we were more of a meeting of souls, that should something happen to either one of us she would know what the true meaning of love was and how it felt to be truly loved.

She described the things she loved about me, thanked me for our child and how important he was to us and how good of a father I was, and how much she loved me as her husband.

I am not a very emotional type, it brought a tear to my eye and I get misty as I type this knowing how she has changed our history to justify what is going on now.

I was reminded of this when I read km's post about spouses forgeting the good times and focusing on the negetives.

Rookie I am so sorry for the pain of reading that old journal of hers has caused you. You may want to consider giving it back to her the next time she comes by your house to drop off your son.

A day does not go by without some crap from her.

I just recieved in the mail a notification I have to appear in court in two weeks as she is seeking temporary child support, day care and other misc. payments.

Seems she forgot she is on the mortgage, home equity loan and various credit cards that I have been paying ON MY OWN.

I will agree to the child support and related issues, if she pays her half of the above mentioned bills, in fact it would be cheaper for me if that was agreed to.

She goes out and gets laid, I get F****D
Big time venting ..............

I spoke with my attorney in regards to the court appearance.

If she demands child support and other misc. payments, we are going to pursue her paying her half of the mortgage and payments on all bills which are in joint. In short, if she does the math, she will be better off staying with the program as it currently is set up as she will actually loose money if she is granted her requests but held liable for her half of the marital bills.

My attorney stated that there is no way a judge would order me to pay both, marital bills and child support. Once the house is sold, then I would start with the support.

If she agrees to this along with dropping her order of protection the D could be finalized on the 10th of November. If she does not agree, my attorney suggests not waiving the two year seperation as required in this state.

Since she is totally involved with the OP, I think she will accept the terms as presented.

The only thought I have on this is how crazy the whole thing is. I know someday when the fog lifts and reality sets in and she looks at the situation as everyone else sees it, she is going to loose it. She has always looked down on cheating and has said that there was never any reason for it.

She has compromised this family, her son's life, my life and the respect that she has had, for what... a fantasy.

I believe in my heart that God has some very speacial plans for her and the OP. All I ask is they get what they deserve and pray for God to give the son and myself the courage to get through this.

Hi Rookie,

I've read your whole thread (took me most of a week to do LOL) and now check every day for your updates. It sound to me like she's trying to start disputes with you maybe just as an excuse to try to make contact? Or she could be trying to make you hurt/angry enough so she can claim YOU want the marraige to break up to relieve some of her guilt. Then it's not her fault by yours or at least mutual blame. So maybe that's the motive behind all her demands? Or it could just be her lawyer or the other man is pushing her to ask for these things?

"If she agrees to this along with dropping her order of protection the D could be finalized on the 10th of November. If she does not agree, my attorney suggests not waiving the two year seperation as required in this state.

Since she is totally involved with the OP, I think she will accept the terms as presented."

I don't know, my husband made lots of noise and threats about wanting to get the divorce over ASAP, being SURE his mind is made up (except for one week of ambivalence when other woman had dumped him), supposedly felt more love and committment to other person than to me, blah-blah-blah... BUT he didn't file for divorce until a year after separation started, threw monkey wrench into proceedings with el-bizaro false accusations that I had no choice but to contest (because otherwise it would have led to losing custody of the children) which resulted in major delay of divorce, THEN just a few weeks before the divorce would have been final agreed to sign a separation agreement delaying divorce for another year! (because it was the only way I would agree to keep seeing him - said there'd be no future contact after divorce final) So another possible motive for her demands could be she is trying to stall proceedings. REMEMBER - don't believe anything they say - FOG motivated bluffing? She's trying to convince herself as much as anyone else that she's certain of what she wants.

"The only thought I have on this is how crazy the whole thing is. I know someday when the fog lifts and reality sets in and she looks at the situation as everyone else sees it, she is going to loose it. She has always looked down on cheating and has said that there was never any reason for it."

And THAT could be why she's being so hostile right now. She's angry at herself but directing that anger at you maybe? In order for her to justify doing something so below her own morals she has to get you angry enough to say or do something that she can point to as an excuse why the marriage just can't be saved.

Also I read somewhere that as long as they never come home they rationalize they really didn't do anything wrong - just made a new start. But by expecting them to come home we're asking them to feel shame and guilt because THEN the adultery was a betrayal! FOG 'logic' to be sure - insane but whatever helps them sleep at night? My husband and the other woman even told me I'm NOT his wife anymore! (Divorce won't be final until Sept 15, 2004) They claim they are NOT committing adultery because he had already moved out. Whatever... So in my husband's mind if he came home, and had to ask forgiveness and repair damage, etc. THEN he'd have to admit he did something wrong. Weirdness huh?

I know - it's the fog talk, and it's an addiction, and typical affair behavior, etc. And I REALLY DO believe that too... But at times I wonder how I will be able to ever trust him again. I mean it's shocking to watch somebody you've spent so many years with employ such flimsy excuses to justify doing something so cruel to you. And I KNOW he would never stand by ME like this. What if I go through all this and then become ill and he dumps me? What if he's not willing to help me recover from his affair? Or what if he has another affair? I guess that's why I'm supposed to be spending my time in Plan B learning all I can about how to act when/if we reconcile, lining up all the support we'll need, working on getting my half of the problems solved, etc. And taking care of myself and daughters anyway just in case it doesn't work out.

I know it's really scary and sad when they start with all the legal threats and demands but try not to take it too seriously. Just tell your lawyer, try not to escalate it, don't let her bait you into contact let alone confrontation, and remember she's really scared, confused, and hurting right now too. If she doesn't get a hostile reaction from you she will probably cool down and back off.

I'll say a quick prayer that you will worry less and find something really fun to distract you from it today.

icedancer, I read your post and appreciate what you have said, it is good, if there is anything in this that can be called good, it is that there are people who can relate to this situation without simply saying dump the *****, sorry, but I am very tired of that line.

I actually laughed when I read your statement about your H rationalization that since you were not living together and he was with the other, that he was not committing adultery, I received that exact same line from my W, good God, lying, selfish minds think exactly alike.

My W, she is deparate to get out of this marriage and start A NEW, yeah, so she has agreed to all the proposed changes. I spoke with my attorney again this morning. The only sticking point is she is waffling about dropping the order of protection.

Seems she does not want me contacting her soul mate, I countered a few of her accusations towards me awhile back directly to him, I also let him know exactly what I thought of him. He must have squealed like a stuck pig and she does not want me contacting him any further, hence the order of protection prohibiting any contact with her fellow employees, which he is one of.

It is stated here very often how this all plays out like a script, so far she has not missed a beat as described here. Her actions and words have been hauntingly similiar to what all have said they would be.

I expect a big fall for her in the near future (no crystal ball needed), as soon as the reality of this all sets in, I predict within the year. At that point, for my own sanity it will be too late.

Having read my thread, you know of her concern while I went through the cancer, scary enough to do with someone you love supporting you. Absolutley frightening when the one that you love abandons you in the middle of the fight of your life. When she looks back on her actions, I think I will have to call the suicide hot line for her.

ice, thanks, at this time I need all the support and understanding everyone here has provided.

rookie,

Have you check gollum's song out ?. Get a box of klenex ...

-rh-

Rookie,

I don't know who's more scared of further contact/exposure - my husband or I LOL

"Seems she does not want me contacting her soul mate, I countered a few of her accusations towards me awhile back directly to him, I also let him know exactly what I thought of him. He must have squealed like a stuck pig and she does not want me contacting him any further, hence the order of protection prohibiting any contact with her fellow employees, which he is one of."

He flipped out when I talked to a couple of his relatives and coworkers a few months back. The other woman called the police on me just for calling her on the phone, said I wasn't his wife anymore and hung up on me. My husband has threatened they were going to get a restraining order against me and make up false accusations to try to have me arrested if I try to contact anyone again to expose what's going on.

You know what I think Rookie? I think our spouses and their adultery partners get angry because they want to pretend they aren't hurting anyone and that what they're doing is somehow not sleazy and shameful. And the incredible tin is they actually expect us to go along with this pretense! Sick IMO

Also Rookie,

I think it's just awful the way she treated you when you were battling cancer. You should be able to depend on your spouse to see you through the bad times - not to run off. And by comparison look how much pain you are willing to endure to try to save your marriage - basically standing by her even though SHE has a problem.

A year ago I got two phone calls: from my mother-in-law and a sister-in-law, chewing me out for not caring about my husband enough to let him come home, WITHOUT having to complete anger management, even though he had cancer! He had not said anything whatsoever to me and our daughters about having cancer - the angry calls from his relatives is how we found out AFTER he had already told them I supposedly didn't care! BUT a couple months before that he had posted a pity party message on his family's webpage about how awful it would be if he had prostate cancer just like his step-dad did but I still wouldn't let him come home. So most of my friends and relatives don't believe he even had cancer. My daughters and I pray for him anyway but when we ask about his next appt. he mumbles and won't tellus where or when it is. His family made an appt. at a specialist near them but he cancelled it. He isn't even going to an oncologist or getting any medical treatment for the cancer. Says he just tried some herbal stuff he found online and only has an appt. with a geneal practitioner once every 3 months to see if the cancer is spreading or growing. Says the hospitals and doctors have known about this herbal cure for cancer since the 1930's but have kept it a secret in order to make $ off of dying cancer patients... Says he won't get regular treatment because his family is convinced that's what killed his step-father, not the cancer, that his family supports him in refusing treatment. A relative I talked to said that's a lie, they are worried sick he won't get treatment. Also once when he told me the cancer had stayed the same size he had told his family it had shrunk. He admitted to me once that he doesn't want to get medical treatment because he doesn't want side effects of hair loss and impotence (which would matter to younger bimbo - NOT to me and his daughters!) A couple of days ago he sent an e-mail to one of our daughters saying he just had check-up and cancer is gone! Claims all you have to do to CURE (not just prevent) cancer is just eat right and exercise, says he doesn't even have to go for another appt. until February...

I felt REALLY bad that I couldn't let him come home when his relatives chastised me for suposedly not caring he had cancer. But at the time I had severe hypertension that was not yet under control and he had a severe anger/violence problem that he was refusing to get any help for. I was already in danger of having a stroke or heart attack without being exposed to his anger/violence. By the time they found the right medicines to control my hypertension and he started behaving more civil, he was involved in the affair and didn't want to come home anymore. (In fact his affair started the same time as his cancer claim as far as I can tell.) I don't think we will ever know if he really even had cancer or it was just what he needed to tell people to make me appear evil enough to justify his affair?

Sorry to sidetrack your thread but I just needed to tell somebody about it. When I read about how your wife didn't stand by you through your cancer I feel guilty I couldn't be there for my husband.
I tried to assure my husband that if he got into counseling he could come home and I would take care of him through the treatments but he didn't want to. He hardly ever mentioned the cancer to my daughters and I. During Plan A I offered to go with him to doctor appt's but he said other woman does that for him. I found some info online about a less painful way to monitor cancer than the needle biopsies he described but he just took the info with no comment whatsoever. So I feel guilty for not being able to help him in some way.

redhat, I broke out a bucket for the tears, but, couldnt down load it.

ice, just hand your husband a shovel and tell him to start digging his own grave.

Dr's do say you can live up to 15 years without any significant side effects of prostate cancer, but once the time period is up, your down.

Yes, you can monitor the progress of prostate through PSA level checks, but it also requires the byopsie test, painful, humiliating, but if you are interested in saving ur life, gotta do it.

Yes, impotency is a side affect of the surgery, but, through chemistry that could be overcome till your body starts to handle it naturally on its' own. It has been over a year, and not to sound crass, things are starting to rise on their own.

That is the issue I really believe freaked my W out, we were very active, and suddenly it came to a halt. If she had the love in her heart to stand by me throught that time, which is still going on, I can only imagine what life would be like.

But, it is during our hard times that the true character of people is shown, to bad she was that shallow.

rookie I was wondering if you could post your experience with ED to Silverthorn (a BH) over at the Recovery forum, who has been having problems with ED. He and his W (Poe) need as much info as possible to help resolve his ED and I'm sure they would appreciate your insights and knowledge you can give them. Thanks in advance.

[ October 30, 2003, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: T00MuchCoffeeMan ]

Rookie -

I'm still worried even though he is now claiming the cancer is gone. We (daughters and I, close friends & my relatives) already knew my husband had problems with honesty, manipulation, self-pity... So we were hoping he really didn't have cancer - just another one of his lies. (I rarely said this to anyone just in case he really did have cancer because I didn't want to sound insensitive. But almost everyone I know reacted to the news with 'yea right - he's just lying')
We would pray for him, try to get him to tell us about last & next appt.'s but I have to admit we mostly had to try to put it out of our minds hoping it just wasn't true and he wouldn't listen to our concerns or tell us much anyway. I kept asking him wasn't he worried the cancer might grow or spread between visits? We were especially worried about possiblity of it spreading to other parts of his body and by the time he went in for appt.s so far apart it might be too late. He said he was doing what's called 'watchful waiting'. I did find an article that said 20% of men diagnosed do this BUT it said it was for OLDER men who probably wouldn't live too much longer anyway. (Surgery was the #1 choice for younger men.) In the case of the older patients the quality of life decrease from aggressive treatment in their final years wasn't worth it or the treatment itself might be too dangerous for their health/life. My husband had told me more men die WITH prostate cancer than FROM it - BUT didn't mention that was referring to men much older than he is (more like in their 70's than 50) Anyway, what's weird is now that he says the cancer is gone I'm starting to worry he really does have cancer and just doesn't want anyone trying to talk him into treatment anymore?

Redhat - my daughters are major LOTR fans. They love that Gollum Song clip. But it doesn't play the graphics anymore - just the sound. I'm tempted to send it to my husband in an e-mail... but NO CONTACT. Maybe if he doesn't come around before the divorce is final I will send it to him as a parting shot?

TMCM, I looked at silverthorns post, I saw the type of dog issue, and another post and didnt know at that point what to add. I would be more than happy to help.

Ice, his cancer didnt go away by eating prunes or broccoli, if he has prostate cancer, ask him what his PSA level is. You are correct in the treatment of older patients, I was 49 when I was diagnosed and had the surgery, in one sense I am happy that it is gone and my PSA level is nill, but in another I cant help but think it was the start of all the problems with the W.

Rookie I'm sorry I wasn't specific about where to post(it was Poe's thread Happy, happy, joy, joy) but I'm glad you found it and gave your knowledge and insights to her.

I have no doubt whatsoever that after your divorce becomes final, you will indeed meet a woman who truly knows the meaning of the word love and will be so thankful to God that she found a man like you.

God bless you.

Rookie, I agree with what TooMuchCoffeMan said about you most likely will meet a woman after the divorce who will be more loyal and caring than your wife was. I have made it a rule throughout my marriage to not discuss my marriage with the opposite sex (except a couple of marriage counselors we went to of course). So it's sort of an eye-opener to realize there are husbands working as hard to save their marriages as their are wives. I just wish MY husband was one of them LOL. I still think your wife will come around eventually but I guess if she really is rushing through with the divorce I guess not in time?

And about the PSA levels, is that one of the things they can check by blood tests? I asked several times didn't he get any tests done to check levels of things to see if cancer was getting worse or spreading. It was one of those mumble responses if any response at all. He never talked about PSA levels, even when he claimed he was cured. He just said he had a biopsy done a few times during the year and didn't have any other tests or even appt.s in between. The herbal junk he bought was something he said he only tried for a few weeks but was too expensive (less than what he earns in one day) and made him too sick. But his family has been under the impression he was using this alternative cure all along. The crash diet he was on wasn't healthy and started almost a year before telling his relatives he had cancer. For the first few months ALL he ate was fruit and white rice, then added soy sauce and an occasional can of tuna over the next few months. Our daughters were scared he had an eating disorder. Everyone we know thinks he looks way too skinny, unhealthy, and much older now. Also, we noticed that whenever the other woman dumped him he would relax his strict diet and eat more normally, even eating candy and cake, further indicating it was a diet for vanity's sake, to try to keep a much younger woman.

Anyway, I will keep you in my prayers through this tough time. I still think there may be a slight chance your wife will find some excuse to stall the divorce, have 2nd thoughts maybe? We were just a few weeks from the divorce date when my husband made up his mind to sign separation papers instead. And the papers didn't actually get signed until just a few days before the divorce date. Also, do you live in a state where she can have her divorce reversed and/or subsequent marriage annuled if done soon afterwards? (Where my sister lives you can't even live with your lover let alone marry them within 6 months of a divorce and if you reconcile with your spouse during that time the divorce is just canceled!) Rushing into this to get it all over with legally will not settle things once and for all with her emotionally.

Ice, yes the PSA level is detected by a blood test. If a guys level is 1-3 he is OK, 4 and above require the ole scope up butt.

From what I read about your H, wouldnt psychiatric help be more appropriate?, seems he might have used the cancer bit as a sympathy ploy with the family and to turn your ignorance of his self diagnosis into a situation that made it look like you didnt care.

NO DOCTOR WILL SCOPE unless you have symptoms, such as the PSA level, so when your husband had it done a couple times, it definelty raised my eyebrows.

If your husband can cure cancer with herbs, tell him to take his show on the road, he'd make millions.

I did get the return from my W's attorney for the proposals I have made in regards to the divorce, she must want out bad, she agreed to everything except, so far dismissing the order of protection, which I am sure when we are in the court room on the 10th she will agree to.

She agreed to not go after my pension as all, which in this state they can, and she did not go after my Mutual funds, not a massive amount of money, but still a tidy sum. She also agrees that her request for the monthly child suport was high and dropped the amount to the amount I sai was appropriate.

The OP must really have handed her a line and is pushing hard for her to finalize.

My bet is that they are married by Christmas, his divorce should be finale bout the same time. Wont that be a blessed event. I can hear the vows now, do you promise to keep your pants up, well atleast till the ceremony is over.?, Do you promise to run as soon as things dont satisfy your self centered ways. Do you promise to fold on your partner as soon as he gets a cold?, forget the honor, cherish and respect part, they would look at each other wondering what the hell that means, if so I now pronounce you Mr. and Mrs. lowlife

Spoke with my attorney this morning, looks like it is a go to finalize the D on the 10th, she did agree to drop the order of protection and everything else I asked for.

She is in a big hurry, OP's D was to be finalized, same day, same Judge, OP's W changed the date as it was going to be way to weird all of us sitting in that court room together, seems soon I'll be posting in the Divorce section.

Sorry rookie. How do you manage to keep your sense of humor? (Caustic, but funny.)

Belle, 28 years of being a cop you either learn to laugh at the darkest moments or you go crazy, it is really quite simple.

If I didnt laugh I'd be bawling like a baby.....

In the state I live in you have to go to a parenting class before you can get divorced.

They discussed the statistical data concerning 1 in every 2 marriages would fail.

In the crotique of the class I stated that I felt the class on my part was useless and did not teach me anything I did not already know, but I did ask why the state does not require a class which gives the statistical data in regards to those who do divorce, such as 85% regret getting divored and that only 3% of affairs lead to a successful marriage/relationship. I stated maybe if some of these people involved in A's that are leading to thier divorces heard these statistics from a impartial person they would think hard about getting divorced and work on thier marriages.

But again, we are dealing with the state........

TooMuchCoffee Man, I was happy to see you reply to someone on another thread, was getting concerned as I have not seen you post for awhile, wherever you were, welcome back.

Rookie

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:

TooMuchCoffee Man, I was happy to see you reply to someone on another thread, was getting concerned as I have not seen you post for awhile, wherever you were, welcome back.

Rookie<hr /></blockquote>Thanks rookie. I haven't posted to your thread for a while because you have been getting good support and advice from the other members that they basically conveyed exactly what I was thinking. But make no mistake I have been following your situation every day and will post when I have a suggestion or perception that could be some value to you.

How's the house going along? Have you found a buyer for it yet?

TMCM, I didnt necesarily mean that you were not replying to my posts, I read alot that is posted here and have not seen you post and was concerned if everything was OK.

Gets to be like a family here and when you see one missing from the dinner table for a few days, you get a bit concerned, but I am glad everything is fine with you.

So here is what is going on in the rookie's life these fine days.

I signed up for parenting without partners. There is a meeting tommorow night for new members which I am going to attend.

My interest is in meeting new people, socializing and doing things. I do have friends, but all are married and I am tired of being the third wheel so to speak when we go out. I think by associating with this group I will be amongst others in the same position, sides that new friends never hurt.

I did go to a employment agency to find work, any work, although my pension is sufficient, I need to get out and be busy, the extra money would be a bonus. I am not particuliar about a job, as long as I dont have to ask someone if they want fries with that or to supersize thier order.

The divorce should be final Monday, it's been pretty emotional realizing the game is almost over. I cant help but reflect on what has been happening the last year and it has had it's impact on me.

One thing about the D that is kinda funny is that I do know the OP's W quite well, if you recall I did work with her in the past, we arrainged that on the weekends I have my son, the OP will have thier son. In the decree the OP's W and I both have the stipulation in there that the WS's cannot have a member of the opposite sex spend the night so long as our children are present, seem like they will not have a weekend without either one of them having one or the other's son there on a weekend.

In reality, the game is never completely over, I am still of the opinion that her A is going to crumble, I find it impossible for it to work out. She works with the OP, and now they are going to have unlimited time together, reality sonner or later will sink in, everyone I know that knows both the OP, my W and myself all state that she is going to dump him after awhile and try to come back to the marriage, question is, at that point will I take her back.

The last year as all here who are in the same position know what hell the BS's go through, my answer to that is a completely honest, I dont know.

DaRookie

Rookie it's always nice to know that one's absence is noticed and missed. You are right in saying that this little community feels a lot like a family.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"I am still of the opinion that her A is going to crumble, I find it impossible for it to work out. She works with the OP, and now they are going to have unlimited time together, reality sonner or later will sink in, everyone I know that knows both the OP, my W and myself all state that she is going to dump him after awhile and try to come back to the marriage, question is, at that point will I take her back."<hr /></blockquote>Your are right in beleiving that the odds are against them that their relationship will flourish because they do not have the tools to make a relationship work. And after the divorce is finalized, there will be the added pressure to their relationship, especially with your stbxww, of 'this better be worth it' which can only help to advance its demise.

If in the near future she expresses a desire to reconcile and you also want it as well, then you MUST convey to her that only her actions will convince you whether she is serious about reconciling or not. Willigness on her part to be totally accountable to you, and vice versa, as well as being open and honest with each other without going ballistic for something one or the other said, like feeling attracted to such and such. My wife and I often talk about people of the opposite sex we find attractive because we know that hiding that from one another can only lead to dishonesty and the possibility of an affair developing. We are well aware that we must do everything in our power to avoid being in a situation where we would be alone with one of those attractive people. The other day, a woman friend of hers (who is a total knockout and a tremendous flirt) came over to the house when my W was at work, and asked if we could talk. Immediately I saw huge red flags waving in front of my eyes and I simply told her that I had to go out to do a few errands but that I would be happy to talk to her AFTER my W arrived from work. I contacted my W and told her about the whole situation and when she came back from work, we talked about her 'friend' and she thanked me for telling her because now she is going to be more vigilant about her friend's true motives (BTW her 'friend' never came back afterwards). Then there was another incident in which a male co-worker of my W's (whom my W said was very handsome) came to her and asked her if she wanted to go out to lunch with him, just the two of them. My W simply told him 'No thank you' and immediately left him alone. He became persistant in his attempts to get her alone until my W asked me if I could please talk to him to leave her alone. One day I went to pick her up at work and she pointed out who this guy was, and I went over to him and said that I did not appreciate his advances towards my W and if they continued, then my W and I would take it up to his boss and H.R. I'll never forget the look on his face (he looked like he had just swallowed his gonads <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and he swore to me not to worry and that he would never again talk to my W. My point in telling you about these personal situations, is to give you and idea of how we follow the MB principles in our lives. Both of us suffered so much with the infidelities of our first spouses, that we are committed to making our marriage a true one in every sense of the word. We definitely do NOT want a repeat performance of our past marriages.

Well folks, the fat lady has song, as of 11:30 Am., this fine morning I am officially divorced.

I walk away from this feeling no guilt, I tried to salvage my marriage, but the forces of her A were too strong and her character to weak.

I am now moving to the Divorced section, I need a thread title, any assitance is more than welcome.

I appreciate the assistance of those that have stood by me and have shown thier care and love for a fellow human being that they do not even know, you are the folks that have helped me keep my sanity thoughout this campaign of terror waged by the W and the OP.

I did loose my temper with the the W's attorney, she tried to renegotiate the terms of the child support and other issues at a coffee table in the lobby of the courthouse at the last moment.

I cut off the attorney while speaking legal terms with my attorney stating that I dont want this divorce, I am prepared to walk into the court room at this moment and declare that I mandate the marriage couseling and a attempted reconciliation of my marriage, those terms will included my W not having any contact with her lover and I will refuse to waive the two year seperation period that is required by law in this state, I am in no hurry, I will no longer subject myself to this harrassment and walked away.

My attorney caught up to me, asked me to cool down, but seems her attorney got the point and negotiated the divorce in a rather rapid fashion at that point.

Wierd, I have to this date STILL honored my marriage vows, and now I feel like a fool for believing that they meant something to her.

Again, thanks folks, and how do ya say I love ya all to people ya never met....

See ya in the new section, but I do need a thread.

DaRookie

Rookie,

I don't know if I ever posted to you. I never really had much to say, Coffeeman and others were doing such a good job, and you did such a good job, I just read and watched.

As for a new title in the D/D section, well let's see.

How about:

1. Life begins at 50+

2. I did it my way. If you are a Sinatra fan. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

3. A line from the poem Rabbi Benezzra (sp). "Come along with me for the best of life is yet to be..."

Or you could seek advice on how to raise a child after a divorce.

Rookie, I must say you DID do all you could. There really is nothing else you could do. But, I would urge you to be the best Dad to your child that you can possibly be. Your child is your legacy to the future.

I wish things had turned out better.

God Bless,

JL

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"Wierd, I have to this date STILL honored my marriage vows, and now I feel like a fool for believing that they meant something to her."<hr /></blockquote>Rookie I know the feeling very well myself but you know what, at least you and I can be proud of the fact that we did not use another human being as our plaything. Not to mention, we can sleep soundly at night since our consciences are clear. Can your XW say the same thing?

TMCM, I really dont think the thought of destroyiing two families has even entered her or the OP's mind, they have justified everything they have done, no matter how dellusional that thought is, to them it is still justified.

I relish your thought now that you mentioned in a earlier post, now that he has her all to himself, unless my son gets in the way, in that he is now going to have to proove to her that he was worth all this. I would say yes, they both have someone now that can rationalize anything they do, be it good or bad, have no sense of reality, loyalty to themselve or family, can look you in the eye and lie and believe that lie themselves, I give it less than a year.

Last night my son called, even though he is ten he picked up that I was not in the best of moods, he asked his mom if he could stop by the house, she did drive him here. He walks in gives me a hug and starts crying, I have never been emotional but broke down like a baby, we held each other in tears and HE is telling ME that it is going to be alright, my little guy, I love him to death.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
TMCM, I really dont think the thought of destroyiing two families has even entered her or the OP's mind, they have justified everything they have done, no matter how dellusional that thought is, to them it is still justified.<hr /></blockquote>Oh I agree with you completely but I've also been a witness on how people do wake up and realize the lives they helped destroy. As hurt as I was with my XWW's(first W) lack of conscience even after our divorce became finalized, I never wished to trade places with her. More so, two years ago when after her emotional meltdown and subsequent succesful therapy, she tearfully apologized for having hurt me and our daughters and even asked me if there was a chance to make it up to us. If I ever had any lingering hatred towards her, it was turned into sadness because it was already too late for us.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I relish your thought now that you mentioned in a earlier post, now that he has her all to himself, unless my son gets in the way, in that he is now going to have to proove to her that he was worth all this. I would say yes, they both have someone now that can rationalize anything they do, be it good or bad, have no sense of reality, loyalty to themselve or family, can look you in the eye and lie and believe that lie themselves, I give it less than a year.<hr /></blockquote>Just don't be surprised that when that happens, she comes back begging you to take her back.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Last night my son called, even though he is ten he picked up that I was not in the best of moods, he asked his mom if he could stop by the house, she did drive him here. He walks in gives me a hug and starts crying, I have never been emotional but broke down like a baby, we held each other in tears and HE is telling ME that it is going to be alright, my little guy, I love him to death.<hr /></blockquote>That is great. Our children can be our greatest blessings in our most darkest hours. Their love can give us the strength to go on fighting for what is right even when we doubt it ourselves.

Sorry to still be posting here, but it sorta feels like a second home and I did'nt want to start all over with the explanations in another thread.

I check my e-mails this morning and the lil'darlin sent me one stating "You are a great father and anytime you wish to see him or him you I will try to make the arraingemts. His happiness is my greatest concern.

I dont know if this means anything to you but I am truly sorry"

OK, my response was simply "I feel much better now".

Just the other morning she is telling how worthless I was as a father and made a host of other accusations towards me, now she wants to play nice?, I did not respond to her phone calls or e-mails for the past month.

BTW, the order of protection was lifted at the time of the D, it was total B.S, and I mandated that I would not sign the D papers unless that was lifted, having been in law enforcement and having applied for related jobs recently it would have been made it imposible to get a job in that field if my firearms card was yanked as required when there is a order in place.

One day after the D and she is going to say she is sorry.... GGGGRRRRRRRRR.

Rookie she's still trying to keep a relationship with you open in case things don't work out with the OM. Continue with the NC of your old Plan B, and only discuss with her vital info regarding your son, no more no less.

I was starting to loose faith that my prayers would never be answered and that reality was something these two were going to be able to escape.

Good Lord does work in strange ways. I just received a call from the OP's W, their divorce was to be final today. Seems it wont, he does not want to pay the 20 percent child support as mandated by state law in this state and was attempting to negotiate the support based on his LAST YEARS salary prior to getting his raise which amounts to $200.00 a month less than it should currently be.

God Love the OP's W, she informed the attorneys that it can go into mediation and that she is not going to waive the 2 year seperation order as required in this state and she is prepared to sit it out.

Seems like the ex's celebration with her OP is going to be placed on hold,,,,,,,he-he, gotta love it. I would love to hear his explanation to the ex why he is prolonging the D.

DaRookie

rookie,
i just wanted to say that i'm sorry about your divorce...but only if you are!

it sounds to me, from all i've read of your posts, that your ex was a truly toxic element in your life...coloring the way you acted and felt about everything. now maybe you can begin to go forward and enjoy life the way you deserve to. i hope so!

if it were me i would try to take only the good from this experience and grow from it. you've experience and learned so much...i just can't believe anything else...that and the only loser here is your ex-wife.

best of luck.
coach

Rookie - Believe it or not, the Lord is answering your prayers but likely not in the manner you may have imagined. He is a just God and trust me, He will deal with your situation. Please be encouraged to continue the change in yourself and let the kids minister Christ's love to you. Children can't be fooled and they see the real issues here.
I am a law enforcement officer in one city and a police chaplain in another. Let me know if there is any way I can offer support. Your life's journey is not over yet. God bless!

John 16:33.

Coach and Hurting, thanks for your kind words.

I did not want this divorce, it was her decision that I have to live with.

I constantly have that thought, maybe if I did this or did that?. Maybe the more appropriate thought is, Maybe if SHE didnt do that. I am left with the results.
DaRookie

OK, sometimes as much as you try to stay in the dark and have no contact some things simply cannot be overlooked.

Today I picked my 10 YOA son up from school, he proceeds to tell me that mom informed him that th eOP's W called her a slut to her 8 YOA son, I tried to explain as delicatley as I could that she is extremely hurt about loosing her H to his mother and that sometimes people say things they shouldnt.

He then proceeds to tell me that he has not met the OP yet, but mom says what a great guy he is, in fact IF she is going to marry him (mind you we were just divorced on Monday) she would only do it if the son approved. I was doing a rapid melt down, how can she lay that type of responcibility on the son being that young. So if the son says he does not like this ahole as he broke up his family, she would not marry him?, give me a break.

I simply e-mailed her and asked her to use common sehse in discussing her plans with the son as he is having issues dealing with the divorce and that she should not throw her decision to marry at him. dammnnnn still burning

Rookie,

Well I suppose one could commend her for considering your S's feelings. However, you are absolutely right, putting a child in the middle of this is cruel to a child and I think ultimately harms them.

Stick by your guns on this one.

God Bless,

JL

Just learning, I agree, I will not allow her, at least to the best of my ability to lay that decision, for her to marry on him.

Sometimes I am so grateful for finding this site and others that have explained how these affairs play out, it's like a play book for them to follow, and I know exactly the course she is on, at other times I regret it because I KNOW the insanity of it all and I feel like I would have been better off just thinking she left for another guy and that is it.

I am convinced her A is going to go down in flames, it is all on a time table now and just a matter of time, that is the frustration of it all, is knowing that everyone has been caused so much pain for some thing absolutey insane.

Wish she would have put her efforts into reading about affairs and the affects instead of investing all her time and energies into pursuing a A.

Rookie,

I feel for you dude! I'm almost in the same boat. My WW is going to file for Dv next week. I couldn't figure out why she was in such a hurry, until I heard my oldest (9) talking to his grandmother (W's Mom). It appears they they are moving soon to a new house (upgrade from 900 SqFt appt)just down the street from OM. I'm sure it won't be long before he moves in, especialy since there is no way my WW can afford it (she couldn't even afford the apt she was in for 2 months). But your right, sometimes it would propably be easier to just think she was running off with another guy, and leave it at that. I to am playing the waiting game for now.

Question. Now that you are Dv, what would you do if your ex wanted to come back after realizing her mistake? That is a question I have been strugling with the last week or so. I'm scared I might take her back for the sake of the kids (she has custody), and not because I had many feelings left for her. She's been withdrawing out of my LB like crazy latley.

hangon, really a good question as my ex also LB'd the hell outta me.

My son left tonight after having him for the weekend, no one can tell me watching him walk out the door gets any easier.

If she showed up at the door saying she wanted to work it out, maybe if she had a letter that she resigned from her job, a appointment set with a counselor, pro marriage of course, the OP at her side and telling me to use him as a punching bag,,

What she put this family and myself through, as you yourself currently are experiencing is nothing short of cruel and mental abuse. I never imagined she could be so cold, I cant look at her without feeling my blood pressure rise.

I just dont know hangon, that is the most honest answer I can give you without bravado and lying.

DaRookie

Rookie-

Thanks for the reply. It is a tough question.

As you can see from my latest thread. My WW and OM are planning on moving in together.

Tonight my oldest (9) told my W that he wanted no part of that and wants to come live with me.

Surprisingly, my W said she would allow him to make that decision.

Take care, and God bless.

So, I get a call from my son's school yesterday, he was not feeling well and they wanted someone to pick him up. They stated that they had TRIED to call the ex, but she had not responded.

I picked the S up and sent her a e-mail that she should pick him up at my place as he was ill in school, he has chronic headaches, which she is very much aware of.

She calls 4 times blasting me that I did not call her to let her know of a medical problem with the son. I told her it was a headache, very common, and I picked him up as they could not get ahold of her.

She complained that I DID NOT CALL HER, I explained if the school could not, what made her think I could?, besides, she obviously received the message as she called me 4 times concerning this issue. I hung up each time she called after giving her the pertinant information, which flamed her, She asks to speak with the s, I tell her as always when he has such a headache that I gave him some aspirin and he is sleeping, she demands to talk to him, I again inform her that she is well aware that the only solution to his headache is aspirin and sleep, and no, I would not wake him and hang up once again.

I then informed her that if she is to be contacted by the school (I contacted her by e-mail), call the school and give them the OP's cell phone number as he knows constantly where she is at 24/7 and that should solve the problem of her being notified immedialtley.

So now she is cancelling her e-mail and informs me the only way I will be able to contact her in the future is by PHONE, forgive me, but I thought the reason for the divorce was to get away from me and disconnect, not keep a leash on me...

Just venting, seems the crap does not end with the divorce.....

DaRookie

Thats the problem with divorce when children are involved, there will always be some connection/interaction/conflicts/friction.

My oldest deciding to move in with me has thrown a monkey into the wife's wrench. She wanted to get this over with ASAP, but I'm not doing this on a hand shake. I told her that we need to have our sep agreement modified to change the custody and child support clauses ($$$). I told her that if she wants it done ASAP, she'll have to pony up some money for the attorney office visit and agreement amendments. I'm not going to shell out a bunch of cash for something I didn't want in the first place. Of course, she claims to be broke, but somehow manages to come up with money for other stuff when she needs it (OM's help I'm sure), so I guess I'll see how motivated her and OM are about getting this over. I would love to see the two of them start off their "new lives together" with some money problems!

hangon, without a doubt, get the child custody issue in the agreement, like you are supposed to take the work of that wigged out WW?, yeah....Ilike sticking pins in my eyes also.

Let's see how far the OP's love goes when he has to start shelling out of his pocket for her attentions. Again I agree with you, but she is so fogged out she cant see the crash and burn coming.

Rookie,

I talked to my attorney yesterday about restructuring our sep agreement. My WW wasn't very happy about the impact the move was going to have on her financialy. I think she was under the impression we would just divide the amount I was paying for both kids, and call it good. NOT!!! She has a financial obligation to the child in my custody as well. I think this was a much bigger financial bite than she was expecting. So, she is going to have her attorney crunch the numbers again, then I'm sure she'll want to negotiate the best deal she can.

My S is still excited about moving (I will pick him and his stuff up on Thanksgiving). I hope my WW, not wanting to give up so much child support, doesn't try extra hard to talk him out of the move, or worse, just tell him no.

hangon, I hope for the best for you on that one, but always keep in mind that it is about THEIR happiness, being the WW's, all the little baggage that comes with their decisions are nonconsequential, and are used as a hammer on us.

Sooner or later they do find out reality sucks, the more so the better far as I am concerned.........

Rookie,

As I feared, I got an email from the WW saying that now she thinks our S(9) is not old enough to make the decission to move in with me. She was fine with it, up until I told her what a financial hit she was going to take by my reduced child support. Her and OM are moving into a new place next weekend. She wants our oldest to move with her, and "give it a chance", but he still says no, he wants to live with me.

I replied to her email, telling her, "Just because your doing what makes you happy, doesn't mean he'll be happy", and she should "Let him make the decission, since he didn't ask for any of this".

She replied a couple hours later with "Fine, give me $XXX per month for child support". Not a problem. Sure it's a more than I'm required to pay (by state guidelines), and a little more than I wanted to pay, but who can put a price on their kids (besides my WW).

I will have my attorney draw everything up next week, while anvil is still hot.

hangon, I called her many names in my mind when I read your post, none of which I can post here....

Evil hearted, selfcentered...fill in the blanks, you know several of the words I am thinking right now.

We love our boys DESPITE what their mothers are.

Take care, if you need anything, e-mail me,

rookie3824@msn.com

Wanted to express my hopes that everyone here has the best thanksgiving possible.

If you are here, it is because things in your life at this point are not good, but it is a time to reflect on the positive. It is hard to realize that something good could come out of the situation we all are in, but here are a few things that have changed in my life as a result of my W's A,

1. My mother who I was rather distant from in the past has become a solid anchor in my life now, we talk daily and I see her several times a week. She is getting older, but we go to many places together now and it is a new relationship, we are very close now.

2. It is not that I was a solid alcholic, but since the start of my W's A, I have not touched alcohol. She used that as a excuse to justify what she was doing, and I decided to remove that one for her. I have realized that when I was drinking I did drink a bit too much and on a regular basis. I have not had anything what so ever since June 7th.

3. I have learned to pray daily and talk to God.
I was never religous in the sense that I would go to church, but I always had a belief in a higher being. I am still asking for guidance from the Lord and hope he sets me on the right path, gives me the courage to do what needs to be done and the stregnth to do it.

4. My two older kids from my first marriage have rallied around me. I was always too busy with work and my marriage(to my 2nd and now ex) to be there for them as they needed. We talk and do things together now that we did not do in the past.

5. I have found who my TRUE friends are. Many claim to be your friend to the death, till there is some advesarial situation in your life, seem at that time, that it is only the TRUEST of your friends that are left standing at your side.

So, when you think about it and start to cry in your beer this holiday, think about some of the positive things (if you can call it that) that have come about because of the situation we are in, and last but not least, be thankful for the people we have found HERE, many times in my deepest points some here have kept me going with words of advice and encouragement. No, it is not profesional advice most give here, but it is from the heart and through experience they give that advice and most of the time I found it to be more accurate than the professionals.

Hang in there,

DaRookie

Well said! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Rookie,

I agree with Coffeeman, Well said.

You have been blessed Rookie, and you are just now beginning to reap those blessing. ENJOY

God Bless,

JL

rookie

i read your whole thread this evening. you and i have a lot in common. i admire you and hope i can be as strong as you as my nightmare continues to its inevitable conclusion.

i hope you continue to post here as i believe your saga is not over yet and i would like to see how in really ends

you have many friends here. happy T-day and God bless you.

stayin' dark. DD

Devestated, I had the extreme pleasure of sitting through a parent teacher conference this evening with the lil'darlin who walked in five minutes late and I was already engaged in a conversation with the teacher. The exwife's boyfriend had his divorce finalized today, so I guess they had alot to talk about.

It still pains me to see her and her smug attitude about the whole sitch, but, I did well, sat through the conference, hugged my son, told him I loved him and walked away as she stood there without saying a word to her.

She has called several times in the last week in regards to my son, I ask her if she is finished about the subject matter concerning him, then hang up, she is very much aware that I will not talk to her till the love fest ends with the OP as I have made that point very clear many times.

It takes alot to sit at the table with her and the son and think that last year at this time the whole A started, but life does go on and I am not going to be her doormat any longer.

Take Care,

DaRookie

Rookie
You posted to me the other day and I have a question. My WF and I are back together. I left him for about 2-3 weeks. During that time I found out the OW slipped in and was visiting him and they did the do.

All of a sudden OW broke it off the other day. Seems that OW H is coming home soon and doesn't want to have any lingering OM (she has had others also)when he does.

Caught WF sending her an email. To me, he was trying to convice her to come back to him. I confronted him. We didn't talk for almost a week. Begged me to come back. Realized error, indicretion. Says that still weak for her, which sickens me to hear. But Loves me. Should I go on revealing to my family and WF what is going on. Everyone wants to know what is holding up the wedding date and I don't want to say, "We are working through the garbage call ya back when it is cleaned up."

Right now OW isn't calling. Did once the other day and it sets him back when this happens. I want to go to those above OP to ask them to tell her not to call but fear possible reprecussions for WF and OW. I feel a little trapped. He seems to have started withdrawal but I don't want OW interrupting it. He began a time before and OW selfishly came in again. I've tried to reach OW H about 8 times now with no success. Can u shed any light?

free, I am not a couselor and anything I say is through the experience of this all and advice given to me by the great ones here, being the likes of TooMuchCoffeman, redhat coach and the likes. I have done a immense amount of reading on the subject and almost feel like I could do marriage counseling now, but if I was so good, why did my marriage go south, keep that in mind when I give my two cents worth.

Your other half is a cake eater, he has the best of both worlds and is now sitting on the fence. It might be time to knock him off it and consider plan B, but that is determined by how long you have done a plan A and how well you have done it.

He is still trying to contact her for whatever reason, but, do not believe a word he says, coffeman's line is the best on this and I qoute it very often to myself and others,puts things into perspective, "Your actions speak so loudly I can barley hear what you are saying", a very wise saying to remember. Words are very cheap, it is ones actions that speak volumes and you WF is speaking quite clearly, are you listening to what his actions are saying?

I would make every effort possible to contact the OP's H, very important, it puts pressure on the A and he will be you biggest ally as he most likely wants the A terminated as bad as you do. The information you both possess can be invaluable to
you.

I know you were contemplating marriage, in no uncertain terms ask him if he is out of his mind, but do it respectfully as they say. Without a doubt, till he sends her the NC letter which you yourself have read and verified that she has recieved and he makes attempts to set things right, marriage seems like a desperate move. It just tells him that you are ok with him messing around if you do that and you WILL continued to go through what you are now.

I really hope that coffeeman, redhat you guys are out there and jump in on this one, I think I am way in over my head here..........

DaRookie

P.S., My coffee has not kicked in yet, keep that in mind please.

Rookie don't worry that you were in over your head. You gave me some things to think about.
I did C OW H. The detail is noted in "Tips on how to contact OW H." Anyway he seems to be more upset with me. Said I had no right to tell OW H. When he was at an even greater wrong multiplied over and over again than me to do what he did. And definitely not in any position to even fix his lips to tell me what I didn't have a right to do. But whatever. Anyway I'm torn right now but resilient nonetheless. At a standstill. Thank you for your input. Have a great Thanksgiving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

free, yep, the wayward is always pissed when the A is exposed as it puts a real damper on their ability to sneak around as they always have.

I spoke with my ex over the holiday on the phone for the first time in awhile, I simply asked her if she had any conciense whatseoever and felt any guilt for breaking up two families, I got the standard reply from her, ye she does have a conciense, but it is me who should be the one feeling responcible for the break up of our marriage, uggghhh, why bother, but I did tell her that she was not the one who went to be tested for STD's, as I was not the one involved with anyone else, and that since she was with her alcoholic boyfreind I felt the need to be tested, phone did go quiet on that one.

It does piss me off that she is still so fogged that I am the responcible one for her affair and that the affair has nothing to do with the divorce and she continues to talk in circles with no thought of reality.

Da Rookie

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
I spoke with my ex over the holiday on the phone for the first time in awhile, I simply asked her if she had any conciense whatseoever and felt any guilt for breaking up two families, I got the standard reply from her, ye she does have a conciense, but it is me who should be the one feeling responcible for the break up of our marriage, uggghhh, why bother, .... <hr /></blockquote>You keep letting her overdraft your LB$. Also what do you expect ? she responsed to your words that hurt her, she will strike back. Deep down, every WS knew what they did was wrong and they try to justify it any which way they can.

Anyway, any plan for the rest of the weekend ?. I am going out tonight to comedy club w/ a female freind, try to get some laughter ... LOL. I am also going out tommorow w/ another female freind for ice cream afer church <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I thankfull that I am start reclaiming my life. I enjoy companionship.

hang in there bro -rh-

redhat, seems like you are adjusting just fine, 2 differant females over the weekend???, sounds good to me.

I have my son this weekend, broke out the black powder guns I havent fired in over 16 years and took him shooting, a ten year old with a .50 Cal is pretty funny to watch shooting, but he didnt give up and thought it was one of the coolest things he has done, watching him TRY to load them and shoot was one of the coolest things for me to experience.

He already is complaining that his shoulder is sore......wait till the morning.

DaRookie

rookie,

Don't get funny idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ... a date is a fruit that grows on Palm tree (dr. Jim Talley, a divorce care presenter) . We just went out and had fun; dinner, club, cups of latte and plenty conversation. I think I just found my partner in crime <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I feel alive again. I worked like a dog while my ExW was cheating on me ... I gave it all out. Now I let my taker out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

I always want to go to a shooting range, I want to get a gun and target shooting. Probably I would get someone to go w/ me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I don't think they let my 2 D go with me. There is an age limit in my county. Your S is a lucky boy.

-rh-

redhat, funny ideas????, not in the least, envious,,, you betcha. I would love to go out with someone now who is'nt looking for their savior, parent to bring up their children (I woulndt mind kids if another woman had them, I guess), sugar daddy. I would like to DATE only.

I am not in the mental mode at this point in my life to invest my self emotionally to someone, that could change if that someone was the right someone. I want to do the dinner, movies, the walks and just talk things, that is what I miss the most about my marriage, partnership, you know that feeling the US against the world feeling.

Even though I only speak with the x on a VERY limited basis, it is the feeling of "What does she have to lay on me today feeling, and what is going to happen now" I am still in the mode of a married man and I still have the feelings that the x is still not that sure of what she has done.

The other day when I laid the conciense line on her, she asked me why I would want a woman like that back in my life, when I see her she cannot look me in the face out of guilt. My son this weekend was telling me how his mother stated she misses being involved as a family, little things, but, things none the less. I still am not sure what I would do if she decided she was going to end it with her OP, but, as cold as she was through out this I dont think I could consider taking her back. My problem is, is that I do think about it when I dont think I should be.

Anyhow, when we went shooting it was not at a range, my daughter has a farm about 25 miles away and we were there shooting.

DaRookie

rookie,

Take it easy. I was taking it easy, my Dv was 12/31/2002 but I wasn't going out at all. I thought I was ready but I realized that I wasn't. As a christian if your x is back, truly remose and want to reconsile, you have the obligation to do it if none of you has married to other people. Of course you could exercise your right not reconsile but you are sinning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . Beside I am done healing, this is one of the drive for me to look for a new mate. I know I would be bless with the one that would treasure my love for her. I have to find her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . Once I commit my love for her, I would not need to entertain reconsiliation.

-rh-

redhat, really didnt mean that in a tense manner at all.

Just a question though, as a christian, I am obligated to try to reconcile with her if she decides that she want to give it a go?, Not arguing, just thought that if she committed adultery, in the eyes of the church, as long as I did not, my obligation to her is terminated.

DaRookie

rookie,

This is very sensitive subject and I have to put it under caveat of what I beleive. Also we are not taking about reconsiliation only (we have to do that) but reconsiliation of M. Yes, we have a right to terminate M since A is one of the two condition allowable Dv and we end our obligation as H. However God always wants us to reconsile. If our x is back and truly repent and want reconsiliation of M; I do beleive we commit sin if we reject reconsiliation of M. The closest thing we could do is not remarriage to her but we can't remarriage no one else either.

I have hard time to take this too but Dv care's put it this way. When we reject reconsiliation of M, we act rightously and we judge/punish x. I don't beleive we have no sin so that we could do that. This is a test of faith for us. We have obligation to become Christ like which supercede our right as Christian.

If you ask me what do I do if my ex knocking my door right now. I would not take her back ... In my harden heart I pray hard to be spare from that moment. One caveat, remarriage can't happen once either spouse get married <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I know HE has someone for me and that person is not exW.

Hope this make sense.

-rh-

redhat, it is confusing, on one hand if she came back as she WAS, I wouldnt hesitate to let her back into my life.

It has gone to the point though that she refuses to accept any responcibility for her A or that the A was the root of the D.

I do understand that I am responcible for the problems in the marriage prior to her A but if she for ONE time would say that the A was a major issue in the breakup it would open alot of doors, till then I find it impossible to think that she could focus on us as a unit again.

DaRookie

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
 redhat, it is confusing, on one hand if she came back as she WAS, I wouldnt hesitate to let her back into my life.<hr /></blockquote>You shouldn't until she is better than she WAS. Since there would be a chance to happen again.

My issue is even she come back better than she was, fully repentance and willing to do the right thing. I would not take my ex and that is self rightous act. I would be committing sin to reject reconsiliation of M. I have no issues to reconsiliation of R as ex'es for the sake of 2 D and I has forgiven her.

-rh-

I speak with my ten year old son several times a week at the times I do not have him. Yesterday I asked him if he has met the OP yet?, his response was I dont want to talk about it.

I find out this morning that the ex and the OP are now ridding to work together, which means that the son has met him as he goes to before and after school care, so he would be getting a ride there from them.

Now they involved the son in the deceit, I will not pursue the question any further as I dont want to put the little guy in the position of having to lie, as I am sure he is instructed to do, but it bothers me to no end that if this relationship of theirs was all so innocent, why are they teaching the little man to be deceitful.

And according to her, this has not affected him at all,,,,uuugggghhh.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by rookie:
 Yesterday I asked him if he has met the OP yet?, his response was I dont want to talk about it.<hr /></blockquote>2x4 .... YOU PUT YOUR KIDS IN THE MIDDLE. You should not ask and even when they tell you you should not react.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> ... as I am sure he is instructed to do, but it bothers me to no end that if this relationship of theirs was all so innocent, why are they teaching the little man to be deceitful.

And according to her, this has not affected him at all,,,,uuugggghhh. <hr /></blockquote>2x4 ... I am not sure about that. That is your assumtion and your get hurt by it. You are as guilty as she is putting him in the middle ... Sorry.

I learn this from my IC, she warned me and warned my 2 D not to pass anything between household. Sometime it drove me nuts thinking that they would accept OM. However this is not my cross to bear ... it this my 2D. It is their decision and all I could do is make their life as beutifull as before and even more and become their dad. I know my 2 D have hard time already ... they are torned between me & their mom. As long as they show love, respect & obedient while they are with me ... I am greatful and feel each days with them like father day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

He didn't want to disclose it to you b/c he is afraid to hurt you and make her mom see him as betrayer. He is right on the money. He is a big boy. When you are ready he will feel comfortable to tell you b/c he know that you won't get hurt and you won't react to it. He is a good boy, he did the right thing.

-rh-

Well, just a update, I just was hired for a new job, not much pay, but with my pension it amounts to more that I was making while on the job with the PD.

I have had some people come to look at the house for a 2nd time, so it might be going...

Now I need to find someone to date and life will take on some form of normalcy.

hi rookie,

Just trying to catch up a little, it's been a while. I see that your D actually happened. I am truly sorry to hear that, I was really hoping that you could bring her out of the fog. I would really rather see your posts going up in Recovery.

Take care,

r0uter

Hey rOuter, long time no see,,,,,

I also was hoping that the fog would be to the point that reality set in, but,,,as it happens, she is still into her other life.

I am trying to move on and take things slowly, but I still think of what has happened constantly.

Hope things with you are working out, let me know.

Take Care,
DaRookie

Rookie,

Things are going ok. Better for sure than 8 months ago, and a little better all the time. Seem to have hit a small set back recently, but it is the first in a couple of months.

She is still having a hard time expressing her true feelings, and as such our conversations are often shallow and meaningless. I really get frustrated because I can feel the conversation going this way, and find myself at a loss to redirect or recover. I am still very suspicious and have a hard time sometimes hiding it.

I have made great strides in trying to fix the things that she has identified as some of the reasons that our relationship was in peril. And I feel like I have done a good job of that.

The other day I decided to express some of my concerns with her. Her reaction kind of surprised me. I had expected her to get angry and really take offense, but she was very calm and semi-receptive. We were interrupted and all I got from her was that she had heard my concerns and she would answer me later. I haven't heard anything alse about it since. AND, I feel like she is once again playing a sort of avoidance game. I work out of town during the week, and we usually talk 3-4 times a day on the phone for 10-15 minutes at a time. Since our conversation the other day, she seems almost purposely to call me when she knows that she won't be able to talk, and has been hesitant to say I love you on the phone. (something that she knows means a lot to me) Maybe I am being paranoid about all of that, but I really don't know.

I still love her as much as ever, and I keep pressing on.

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for letting me vent.

Take care,

r0uter

[ December 14, 2003, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: r0uter ]

rOuter, hope things go well for you,

I just started my new job and the hours are long, 10-12 hours a day, so much for retirement and another thing I am grateful for that the ex caused, not bitter, just realistic. Wasnt on the job and a week and didnt receive my first paycheck yet and already heard from her attorney about the adjustment for child support..........

Just walked in the door from work, e-mail me and let me know how it goes.

DaRookie

rookie,

What is your plan for the holiday this year ?. Do you you have S for the holidays ?.

About retirement ... in my country they say that if you retire you will retire from life soon after. Being active is good ... specially if bringing some extra $ for fun. Work hard, live hard and play hard ... live to the max.

-rh-

rehat, have my son for Christmas Eve, I am having family over for dinner, so scuse me if you see me with the skirt on in the kitchen cooking, not that bad of a cook really, honestly, people have been known to live through one of my dinners.

Never planned on full retirement, was going to work, but not as many hours as I presently am, was going to work part time and take some time to enjoy my son and myself, but......have to do what you have to.

rookie,

Have a joyful holiday feast ... Next year I would have one in my house, for this year I am going to go out w/ my partner in crime to have someone cook for me ...

Dv is finance buster ... half of your resources are gone ! I know how you feel. I have a choice between working like a dog and still scraping ... or I work parttime, still scraping but I have soo much time w/ my 2D. Easy choice for me.

-rh-

Been a long time since I have posted.

Had to get away for awhile and sort things out in my own mind. Every time I read a post it seemed like everyone addressed the same issue, and for all, the pain was very real. Not complaining, but being involved in the same situation as every one it was painful to read of those who's WS were attempting to reconcile when the only response I was getting from mine was further lies to justify her actions.

I could only pray she would have said hey, this is broke, something went way wrong, let's fix it. But, every time I have ever spoke with her it seemed she would try to engage me in a issue which was a attempt to further a arguement to justify what she has done, she is not a person to ever admit fault, not that I am looking for a admission, but any sign of remorse for her actions would have been taken as a start, there are/were none.

To this day she is of the better than thou attitude and addresses me with the attitude of someone who should be subserviant to her wishes.

But there are subtle signs, such as several of her family parties which have taken place during the holidays and after, she still cannot bring her new found friend to them as she told the son, it is too soon after the D, it wasnt too soon for her to bring him into the son's life, but she is hesitant to into him to her family?, well they all know what occured and she is concerned if they meet him it will only verify that they were more than friends as her and her parents have been so adamant about saying, good God, what would the family think of her then???, my response is what does her own son think of her since those are the same lines she laid on him and now he has to face seeing this idiot on a daily basis, the friend that is.

Anytime she is confronted with a issue that is of the truth, she does not respond or hangs up the phone on me now. I do not talk to her at all unless it concerns my son, but she did request monies for his therapy, I simply informed her in written form that it was funny that she is asking me to finance the therapy, something that would not have been necesary if she did not have a affair, at times I cannot resist, know I shouldnt, but this is too far gone.

Another issue was the sale of the house, she calls one day and states that she wanted to buy me out of my half and move in here herself(never mentioned the other one. friend that is), I simply reinterated the statement she gave me so often when this whole situation started, I asked her how was it possible that she could even consider moving back into the house that held so many bad memories(this was a continual statement of hers when she first moved out), let alone with another man, that was the last I heard of her thought about buying me out, I must have jarred her momory of all the bad memories, but it was funny how things are adjusted or revised to fit the mold or justify what they are doing.

As for myself, I have not seriously dated anyone as of yet, seems mentally I still take my marriage vows seriously enough were I cannot simply walk into another relationship and invest my emotions elsewhere, I have as of yet to even hold someone elses hand. Do I seriously think she will regret what she has done, MORE THAN EVER, but I have to withdraw my self emotionally or it will eat me alive. The best thing to happen to me thus far is I now have a new job, the pay is low the hours are long, but to get out into the world and deal with other issues other than her is the best therapy I could have at the moment, being involved with other people and talking about other issues is taking alot of the pressure off of me.

Sorry this is long winded, but it is a simple update as to what is going on in my life.

I also wanted to say hi to folks that have given so much to me at a time when I needed it the most, TMCM, redhat, router and many more than I can list.

Hope all deal with their sitiations and retain their sanity and self esteem,,,,

DaRookie

rookie,

Glad to hear from you. If she wants to buy you out ... let her do it as long as it makes bussiness sense to you. It is good to start new ... clean slate of everything.

I stll have to deal w/ my ex on financial settlement ... arrgggggh!. Otherwise I am ready to look for someone to have committed R.

-rh-

redhat, would like to see her buy me out, only problem is she forgot how traumatic it was to live here till I reminded her. A spoof on my part, but I couldnt help but remind her, seems she had a real short memory or everything she was saying about our marriage was b.s, I opt for the later.

rookie,

Other than she is your kid's mom she is on her own. If it is better for you, let her have it. She could decided to have A and Dv ... she certainly could take care of herself.

I would suggest you to move somewhere and put it in the storage for memobilia of your M for your kid. It would help you to move on.

-rh-

Bump.
rookie, how about an update?