I was posting in the just found out section, if interested in the details of this sitch, see wayward wife/Rookie.

Today, including yesterday is day 2 of plan B.

I sent her a letter detailing how I felt and what must be done to reconcile our marriage.

As stated in the just found out section she came over this morning to drop the son off for school, she wanted to talk, I closed the bathroom door and turned up the radio, knowing she would get the plan b letter on her e-mail at work. Today I have recieved 8 e-mails from her, all in the negative sense, saying she doesnt know how to get the passion back in our marriage and to feel comfortable in our home, bascialy I informed her she could not feel passion so long as the OP was still in the picture and she was still feeling passion for him. I would not elaborate on much, only saying that if we were to attempt to reconcile, counseling was a must and honesty a absolute.

I have recieved 3 other phone calls from her, I would not answer the phone. I sent her another e-mail stating that since she refused any couseling there was no reason to talk, she stated that it would be difficult to reconcile if the only forms of communications were by e-mail. So, I sent her one back stating if she had any ideas on how to reconcile without couseling to let me know as I have never heard of a marriage working out after a A, without it.

She did call and stated that she wanted a divorce, I asked her if she was sure, to which she stated she was, I then stated I guess we dont have anything to talk about then, and hung up.

Ten minutes later she calls back, says she wants to go to therapy, not to reconcile the marriage, but to learn to get over the anger of the sitch.
I informed her that I would go, but under the condition that it was directed towards reconciliation.

She informs me that it's over and if I want to go to reconcile that was not going to happen.

She is making a appointment for us.

I really feel the fog recieved a major kick in the butt,,,, she is very used to being in control
and this was a shake up.

She DID finally admit on the phone when I was talking to her that the A did have a major impact on the marriage, as well as my response to it, this is a first.

Does anyone know of a good marriage coach in northern Illinois. I reaaly dont want to roll the dice of going to a therapist not familiar with the practice of trying to save a marriage, but one that actively pursues the restoration of a marriage.

Why not Harley's ?. They are probably in the premium price range but it is worthed. Beside both of you don't need to be in the same room to do conseling. -rh-

I really dont think she would take a sounseling session over the phone serious, I'm not being sarcastic in the least,,

She just called again, said if I wanted to go to a pro marriage counselor to make the appointment, but I should not have any great expectations of saving the marriage, this is a switch from the anger therapy.

I myself for some unknown reason am a bit reluctant to do a counseling session on the phone.

I really dont think she would take a sounseling session over the phone serious,
She probably (at this point) won't take ANY counseling seriously.

I myself for some unknown reason am a bit reluctant to do a counseling session on the phone
Why?

MB counseling is not all "touchy-feely" and finding your "inner-self."

It's not long discussions about your past. It's abouyt learning "good" behaviors which are beneficial to relationships and identifying and stopping "bad" behaviors.

It's about learning and applying positive changes in yourself to save your marriage. It's all about making a plan that you can put into action.

<small>[ July 14, 2003, 04:13 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

It really sounds like she is starting to come around.

Have you notice the very slight change in attitude. First she is absolutely against any counseling, then she will go if it is for anger management, then she will go for pro-marriage if you set up the appt.! I think you may be winning, inch by inch.

r0uter

rookie,

I would not any hope ... take her word as face value ... look at her action. She tries to negotiate w/ you. My ExW went to talk to SH 3 sessions before she AWOL. I suggest you stick with your plan B and get conseling. You could talk to her but not fillin any ENs except financial obligations. In this case you are doing "tough love" ... it is fine, many MBer does "modified plan B".

-rh-

Router, she will go only to marriage counseling to manage the anger, she told me that if I had any epectations of restoring the marriage to forget it, but you have seen the e-mails, how can you reconcile if the only communication is what she asked.

Talk about sending out mixed messages, if I took every word she said seriously, I'd be climbing walls right now.

If she is having anger problems, shouldn't she go to individual counseling? Although, if you can be in these sessions, it could be beneficial. I always wonder how honest my wife is with her individual counselor. I know that there are things that she doesn't tell her. And any counseling is better then none.

r0uter

<small>[ July 15, 2003, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: r0uter ]</small>

Rookie, I would NOT waste my time with her promises to go to counseling because she has NOT met the two deal breakers:

1. End all contact with the OM forever.

2. WILLINGLY commit to a marital recovery plan with a pro-marriage oriented professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri).

What she has offered you is nothing more than lip service or window dressing to avoid losing control over you and continue her cate walking.

If she wants anger management therapy, that's fine BUT she should not expect you to go with her. Her anger, unlike marital recovery, is something that she has to address by herself for herself.

Stay the course.

No I dont put much stock into what she says.

Yes, I do know she is still in contact with the OP and you are very much correct TMCM when she is giving lip service to maintain control over me.

Several times yesterday she mentioned divorce, that would always ring my bell and she knows that, yesterday I would simply tell her if she wanted to talk divorce, do what you want, that is when she started calling back and say she would go to couseling.

So far today, no calls or e-mails, she told our son that she is not going to talk to me as she agrees that our conversations cause too much pain.

The therapy for anger is for me, as she puts it, I have not been the same person the last couple of months, that is a news flash to me, I've asked her before how a husband is supposed to deal with his wife's A.

Even now she still says the OP has nothing to do what-so-ever with the problems in our marriage. She does not even acknowlege the A or the OP at all.

Rookie you did excellent in calling her bluff when she used her trump card of the divorce threat by telling her to do what she wants. She's probably going to try using it again and it's important that you once again repeat your words, so that eventually she'll realize that it is a useless threat. Better yet, don't even respond to her and strictly observe the only conditions to talk to her which are either to discuss to important child care issues or if she finally expresses a desire to rebuild the marriage by willingly follow a marital recovery plan with counseling from a pro-marriage professional like Steve Harley or Penny Tupy(Cerri) as well as following the four rules for a succesful marriage (see link bellow my sig).

The OM may not have something to do with your marriage problems prior to the A, but he certainly IS a the biggest obstacle on the road to recovery and her reluctance to remove it, shows how much she is unwilling to resolve those marriage problems.

Blew it big time, I had the password for her voice mail at work, called it, there was a message from the OP indicating a PA, called her up, told her file for the divorce, Cant live with a lying Bi*** anymore.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by rookie:
<strong>Blew it big time, I had the password for her voice mail at work, called it, there was a message from the OP indicating a PA, called her up, told her file for the divorce, Cant live with a lying Bi*** anymore.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you did a cardinal sin of snooping !!!!!. You should not react on it w/ LB. You should plan it out & vent in here. Anyway ... I would take the strickest NC !. Remember as long as she is addicted to OM, she is not herself !.

-rh-

The danger of snooping is that unless you can handle the truth it's best not to engage in it.

I agree with redhat and suggest that you go to no contact ASAP.

I am to the point where I am emotionally and physically exhausted by all of this.

I am going to do my best to avoid her, at all costs, I cant take this anymore.

After I called her earlier about her voice mail, I was at a friends house, she called at least 8-9 times, not apologetic in the least, and not that I expected her to be, but I kept hanging up on her saying we have noting to talk about. She kept saying she wanted to divorce one minute and the next that if I wanted to work things out I shouldnt be checking on her that I violated her.

My friends thought she was out of her mind, I'd hang up and the phone would immdietley ring again.

She was waiting for me at the house when I got home, same stuff, I want a divorce let's sell the house routine. I told her we will put the house on the market, but I was not going to agree to a divorce untill there was some counseling, the was met like I just slapped her in the face. I know counseling is going to do no good when the is no effort on her part at all to end her relationship. I told her after about a hour of this to go home.

She still claims the OP has nothing at all to do with the current problems. I agreed with her, said I am responcible for 50 percent of the problems prior to her affair, she is 100 percent responcible for the A, she says there is NO A, I cant take the damn lies anymore.

Any shred of honesty on her part would be more than welcome, but that is not going to happen.

15 years of marriage and she acts as if she is leaving to go to the store, no thought at all about the damage her and the OP have done, destroyed 2 marriages and throw the lives of 6 people into the air without any thought or concern at all.

It is way beyond being selfish and self centered it is outright cruel.

I read here about people who have had affairs and they are trying to work it out, even if the person who was betrayed is apprehensive, God I wish I had that opportunity.

I'm sorry to go on about this, but right now my emotions are running on empty and I need to vent.

Rookie, it sounds like she's panicking at the thought of you not talking to her that she picks fights with you because she knows that doing so will push your buttons and get you to open your mouth. It's a typical response of many a cake walking WS (especially a WW) to hit the roof when the BS goes to Plan B with no contact. Don't let yourself get sucked in by her taunts.

TMCM, I think you are right, when I sent the plan b letter it was the same thing, 8 e-mails and bunch of phone calls.

Today she was at it on the phone after I exposed what I knew.

Problem is why does she keep asking for the divorce then if she is that panicked and absolutley refuses any counseling.

Like I said before, it is just outright cruel, if those are her intentions, just do it. But, she claims she doesnt want me to hate her and we should part as friends.

She has always been a controlling type, but this is way beyond simple manipulation of ones emotions to gain control.

If she cant even acknowledge the affair, I really have no hope at all of her ever trying to repair the damage that has been done.

I have explained till I cant say it anymore, the first step is complete honesty. She is in such a fog right now, I will not talk to her at all. I have to take care of myself and protect what emotions I have left.

But, still in the end, I do love this woman, not the current liar I am presented with at the moment, but the one I've loved for the past 15 years, but that love is being chipped awasy a piece at a time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Problem is why does she keep asking for the divorce then if she is that panicked and absolutley refuses any counseling.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because she knows you want to save the marriage and she figures that by threatening you with divorce she's got you by the cojones. It's a control tactic, trust me.

The acid test about whether she truly wants a divorce or not will be forthcoming. For the time being sit tight and if she tries to get in touch with you to push your buttons, hang up or just walk away and leave her talking by herself. Eventually she'll get the message that she can no longer push your buttons and that the only time you will talk to her will be regarding important child care issues or when she gets serious about rebuilding the marriage.

Rookie,

I didn't get a chance to read this thread before I replied to your last e-mail! So, a lot of things were not included. Wow! she is really testing you. Of course I agree completely with TMCM, every time she plays that card she expects a certain reaction, and when you don't give it she gets confused and panicks. It's not really funny, because she must be in a terrible frame of mind, but I can't help giggling a little bit at her expense.
This has helped me too, because my W is pulling similar cards. However, lately our conversations have been surprisingly civil. Not sure if that is sympathy because of my mother or what, but I'll take what I can get. I have not LB'ed in about a week and I know that is helping. Also, I have had limited success in getting some of her true feelings out. I tried to explain to her that until she can talk about how she truly feels, those negative feelings will fester and continue to build a wall around her heart. But, as soon as they can be exposed, they shrivel in the light of day and die.

Continuing NC is your best course of action for sure. (Don't you hate it when you LB and feel like you have just taken two steps back?) Be sure to keep an even tone and, (As I learned from the Mickey Mouse Club years ago!) "A wise man thinks twice before he speaks once."

r0uter

Well, she did call my bluff and I called it back, I called a realto this morning and am going to list the house for sale.

She is signing a lease for a apartment on Sat., and there is no way I am going to stay in this house by myself and make payments on it, I'm not going to make myself mortgage poor.

Reality is here folks, lets see how she handles it now. It was her idea to sell the house last night, all along she kept asking me to refinance and keep it, just another hook to keep her options open that will be taken away.