His "little bunny" at the door.... this never ENDS

I'm still in limbo, separated now for three years. Filed for a divorce, then the courts cancilled it because of lack of action. Of course stupid me in the back of my head has still considered reconciliation although I know I don't think I could trust this man that lied to me in our marriage, pushed me and was mean and inattentive again. I don't know, having grown up Christian I still think people CAN change but yet someone lacking character and values like this... without some sort of spiritual awakening I'm thinking NO WAY.

Anyways I have my little boy to worry about. Somehow the ex talked me into staying the night in my boy's room last time he was here. He lives in another state and has been coming every other weekend, well now more like once a month to see him, they've always stayed at a hotel the past few years. What was usually my "break" weekend I ended up cooking, supervising, and hanging out. Truth is I'm a single mom and the breaks are nice in a way - and since the man didn't talk to me about anything personal, and never has, this can't go on for my boy's sake... yet I had some mini-dream like yes, it's not going to be one of those emotional close marriages but we could repair it. Stupid with this sort of history and that he's made NO real effort to reconcile - only cries and whines when I tell him we need to finish the divorce, then I don't move forward yet again. This goes round and round.

I'm not really SURPRISED that last night my boy while talking to him on the phone said "your door bell is ringing" and his dad said no it wasn't several times. My boy insisted he go get the door as it was very clear. When he went and opened it a very sweet female voice said "Hi ---- (his name)"... he laughed and told my boy "oh it's a bunny at the door. I'm busy so the bunny will go away for now" or something like that with a muffled something else. My boy at three of course "believed" the bunny story and laughed. He kept talking to my ex and finally I told him he'd better go so his daddy could play with his bunny friend.

Well when I was dating him I was the "only one for him" of course. We dated long distance. My first year of marriage we faught, I called the cell company and there were calls to his "just a friend" in the same town we went to ballgames with the boys without me on some weekends. Oh there were the notes in the drawer about porn sites, that he claims were just pictures, although one note had a name and a town. And then the woman he flirted with drunkenly at a chamber meeting right in front of me. Plus oh, the girls at softball games, who'd come right up in front of me flirting with my husband. Yes we went to counselors and he said it would be different but I kept fighting with him, in arguments he continued to push/shove, finally I left. Of course I know it takes two, one wrong doesn't make a right and I shouldn't have verbally faught, should have left him in the basement with his tv and alcohol.

It just seemed lately things had mellowed out. He seemed nicer and kinder, was doing things for me around the house when he visited - but again that's his history, "doing" vs having a real relationship. Nothing has been discussed about the meaning of "this" and finally I gave in and let him hang out at our house with my boy and I just a few weekends ago. Now having heard the "bunny" in the background I'm upset more with myself then him. The saying "leopards don't change their spots" seems to apply to this man. Oh I know I've cracked his email now and then, what he tells me vs what he tells others in emails is two stories too. He's a very good liar, he's smart at details. Of course he has no clue I've checked his emails and know the truth about things like - jobs he's applied for that, jobs offered, etc.

Now he's losing his job because of a company sell out. I know that within 3-4 months he'll be unemployed and he doesn't seem that serious about his job hunt, turning down even offers for interviews in towns within 1-2 hours from me and the boy, and you'd think as his only son that would be his priority. Instead he's emailed people that he's going to use his severence pay to buy a house in the state he's in and hang out for awhile. He's early 50s so I'm sure he's got some retirement, we kept our finances separate. He claims he's getting 100k in severance pay. I'm in a 50-50 state so I can't figure out why doesn't he just help me get a quick divorce, I've offered him a very low dollar settlement if we do it quick and mostly ourselves, he said he won't, he wants to go to court and cry about how I shouldn't get a divorce because of the boy, he's said.

I'm just tired, we have back taxes to finish, my fault and I keep thinking when I get those done I'll have to file again. He's not going to do anything. But why on earth does he want to be in limbo? What's the benefit to him? If he gets this 100k and we are married aren't I entitled to that and half of the retirement during our separation as well, we are still married afterall? Or does he just continue to think, or not think, we'll get back together at some point. This reminds me of when I first separated from him, a woman at church was married to someone, she left him, he didn't even try to reconcile, she'd hear stories of him at bars and dating and he said he just thought they'd get back together. You can't tell me this jerk I married thinks I'm so stupid to think he's been celibate the past three years? Oh maybe so, he's such a good liar, I mean even in emails, everyone gets a different story, me, his family, recruiters, etc. Especially ME though. I'm the one that really gets a different story.

I"m in the middle of a busy time for work, it'll be another month before I can finish the back taxes, the paperwork then it looks like it's time to refile. What are his rights and mine, he's telling others he's going to stay in his state, so what's the point of all of this? What's with the bunny chick? Any chance she's some "just a friend" for real this time? Well, think about it, stupid me, what does he think of women, doesn't he value them as individuals, did he ever ME, then why would he be "just a friend" with a female? And at 8 pm on a Sunday night for the "bunny" to show up, what would be the reason? Ok marriagebuilder friends how stupid am I now? I know you'll all say DIVORCE the JERK, we've told you IT"S NOT GOING TO GET BETTER...

I'm sorry you're hurting, horsey.

Don't you deserve to be happy? I think so. Just think about what it will take to achieve that, and seriously consider your own happiness for a change.

Yes a counselor told me the same, I have to "take care of myself" for once. Funny a stranger checking out my groceries asked about valentine's day and if I had plans. I said something like yes, with my little boy, the cute three year old, he's the best day. I told him I was happily single and had no intention of dating again. He said he'd been in BAD relationship, and I think he was honest as he "knew" what I meant but found someone and they are getting married... you never know he said. It's true, likely my ex has been running around, getting his "needs" met, doing whatever selfish people do and me... talking care of my boy, being a single mom, working and little pleasure in life outside of my home. I do think it's time to be "happy" and if being single the rest of my life is the way I'll do what I told this young man "I'll stay happily single" as THIS is much, ,much better then THAT.. the marriage I was in, the sad, pathetic, whining woman I was with HIM. Happy with him? NO WAY. That's the truth. It's the Bible that was hammered into me growing up I suppose, I'll be the first in generations to divorce. Life goes on doesn't it.

Your counselor is correct. You need to take care of yourself before you can take care of your son and life in general. When you take care of yourself first....then you can proceed on with life and move on to a better life. Yes....the Bible states that divorce is allowed when there has been adultery. I too am the one that found out my ex was having a sexual affair. I wasn't comfortable with divorce....and living a life knowing that I am divorced. For in my family....I am one of the few who went through divorce. Now I know that divorce was allowed....and have moved on. It wasn't easy....took me 5 years to complete college education....just graduated and looking for a job....which the ex would not allow me to go to school. Financially....been living on a petence of alimony....since ex lied about how much $$ he made....couldn't prove it cause he took all the books used for service calls. With Gods help....I have made it....and still making ends meet. You too....will find yourself....be happy...and if it is Gods will will beable to share your life with someone special. I have someone in my life to share my life with....we are not married at this point....he is a christian and I am a christian as well. I know that God brought us together. I was willing to live a single life the rest of my life. Life does go on and if I were you I would go through with the divorce. He is obviously still in La La land....with the bunny. Take care of yourself first. Blessings.

That does describe him doesn't it... "still in la la land with the bunny." He's a fool is what he is. Of course it's all my fault blah, blah, blah when I go to divorce him. Biblically I am allowed a divorce, of course he cheated while I lived in marriage with him, and separated too. That's ENOUGH. He's done nothing to really try to reconcile, just talked the talk to make himself feel better I think.

I know the stats, women file over 80% of divorces, what men don't want to be responsible for breaking up a family (and that's what he says) so we have to do the dirty work? He said a few months ago I could refile the divorce and he wouldn't fight it, but he would go to court and whine about how I "split" the family. REALLY. The Christian counselor I've been going to says "he's decided then" and I think she was right... that was several months ago. The man's done nothing since, other then show up at MY house, and stay a weekend eating my food, whining about my computer or this or that. NOT an enjoyable idea to live with this man again. Frankly the BUNNY can have him. He's a great man when you are dating him, flowers, cards, you name it... he loves a good chase but once the thrill is gone, it's trouble. He's been married three times now and lived with someone too, can you imagine? CLUELESS LA LA LAND MAN blaming his life on everyone, never looking at himself, a big baby. Pathetic actually.

You know what, I wasn't a bit jealous of BUNNY woman, mostly I could care less. I just called a friend shortly after hearing this on the phone to have her remind me once again, finish taxes and loose ends with this man and get him as much out of my life as I can. He'll just use and push and push - even to the extent of "saving money" by staying with my boy in my house just to go home and screw around with a young bunny. Oh he must feel quite flattered by this attention. I could care less to give him ANY, I don't. I haven't. Truth is I could care less about him anymore, how do you care for someone this selfish, someone who's proven to be such a LIAR over and over again? I don't need revenge, revenge is mine thus sayeth the Lord. Carma, whatever you call it.

Thanks for the posts "take care of myself...." that's what I need to do. I"m back in diet, fitness mode. Lost 15 lbs in the past 4-5 months, am starting to weight train again and be an athlete. I'm feeling energy and good and as I told this MAN I married, "NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY MY JOY, NO ONE, AND NOT IN MY HOUSE" when he started whining like a big baby the other weekend. I think I might need that counselor some more, she was quite good, not the usual Christian counselor holding onto the most disfunctional marriage, of course she was indicating I should finish this marriage, end it after all I've been through. My health and business suffered from the stress of this man, I couldn't handle living with him again, I know that. I have a right to be happy, we are on this earth to have JOY, that's Biblical. I love Joel Osteen, he gives me hope that tomorrow will be better no matter what your past has been.

Thank you for your story too LoveinHim. Perhaps there will be a day I'll meet someone else. I can't even picture it, I'm quite happy being alone with my boy. BUT THIS I don't need, he can drag someone else down, NOT ME. I'm done with that pathetic negative lifestyle, I've known the man 10 years, lived with him for four, that's ENOUGH in one life time. ENOUGH. He can stay the heck out of my house from now on too other then some moments for the sake of my boy... that's it. I think maybe I needed one more SIGN of what an endless PIG this man is. He comes across as oh so NICE, and I can only imagine the BUNNY thinks he's the greatest thing that ever existed... until he slips about the numbers of divorces, one would think SOMETHING IS WRONG HERE... I did in the back of my head of course. I almost backed out of the wedding. I should have. I really should have. Other then for my little boy, he's the love of my life, the best thing that could come out of a bad marriage. AMAZING.

Horsey, I don't think people can change WHO they are. To a certain extent, they can change their behaviors, but not their very being.

Of course, there are a few exceptions that prove the rule, but these seem to fall into the St Augustine category--People who behaved very badly and became very good.

This doesn't seem like your ex at all.

I think another way of looking at it is "What does staying with this man get me?" Your family has been broken up for three years now. You are doing a fabulous job as a single mom. You could move on, yet you don't. Why not?

Looking at it from this prospective may help you once the taxes get filed. You're a courageous person. If some sort of fear is holding you back, I bet you'll want to tackle it.

Good luck.

BTW, almost lost my breakfast over the "bunny" comment. Who calls a woman a bunny?

Wait a minute, my nickname is Bunny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But I'm not the Bunny in this story!

If nothing else will convince you, horsey, remember that your son deserves to see you happy. If your whole world revolves around your son, the relationship with him may not be balanced like it should be. He needs to understand that women need more than a job and their children to be fulfilled or he is liable to expect the same of his future wife.

No one says you have to date, but I think you should pursue a hobby or a club, and find fulfillment in a number of different ways rather than just your career and your (wonderful) son. I realize that probably doesn't leave much extra time, but schedule something - you know? On a regular basis. Find someone reliable to watch him once a week, and go and do what makes you happy.

Ask yourself what is the worst thing that could happen if you divorce this man - be honest with yourself - and think it over seriously. If your son entered a marriage that was like yours, how would you advise him? Would you tell him to stay married just because of what everyone else in the family thought, or would you want him to be happy and move on with his life? Wouldn't you want to see him in a healthy relationship - and perhaps have more children if he wanted to?

Why then does the burden of staying in an unfaithful abusive marriage have to rest with his generation?

I made a vow to go out once a month, to find a babysitter for ME and I never have, haven't been out for fun in three years! Other then a movie by myself or shopping when my boy's dad is here. I've been emailing a young babysitter that said she'd watch my boy at times. And there's another at church. What would I do? Why do I have GUILT at even going on, the marriage is on paper only as one shrink said two years ago, can I do what I want? I don't want to date, but just get a hobby, a club, something for me alone.

You are right, my boy knows me only as a mom or working, and not as a member of adult groups or anything without him really. I work at home, sometimes he goes to preschool but it's an isolating life really. I'm trying to get to church more for him, and soon he'll be in sports so he'll have more of a social life. But me, it's true, I need to take care of myself in this way. Seems I've been putting my life on hold, for what I don't know. Maybe this ME time needs to be once a week, not once a month as you say.

What is the worst thing that can happen if I divorce this man? The ****** of court and attorney's but I'm not even afraid that much anymore, just wondering about getting it over with in the quickest easiest manner, and truth is I think if I proceed, he'll feel the same at this point. The "fighting" mode I was in is over. Oh I'll still ask for what I deserve, the man didn't pay a dime over a year, barely saw his boy, was out doing what he does, more worried about ball games, etc then seeing his baby. I've "wondered" of course if there's been someone special for him, he'd have been trying harder to "get me back" is the logic if there wasn't. So I ought to be happy that he hasn't really tried to correct this marriage, I'll turn him - the way he's been - over to any young bunny at this point.

IF my son was in a marriage like this I'd say LEAVE. I asked my Christian mother that several times, what I could have done, how I could have supported this man, it was impossible although yes I made my own mistakes. I asked what she'd think if one of my brothers did this to their own wives, the rediculous stuff like calling other women, not letting me drive HIS cars, etc, etc... she said of course she'd hope they'd stand up for themselves. No one would expect someone to live like THAT, I don't even care what the most so called Christians say, God didn't ask us to be walked all over, used as door mats, treated like a second class citizen.

Amazing I traveled the world, I'm educated, I married later at 32, I thought I was the "smart" one... and I'm the one who ended up in a worse marriage ****** then most. Bad things happen to good people. Sure I didn't deserve this and maybe I'm still whining and blaming. I made a poor marriage choice, some signs were there while dating long distance - but I can't beat myself up for live and stay committed to a liar and a cheater. I can remember the comment one of his "buddies" made when I first started dating him... "the only problem with him is he likes VARIETY." I think he's been a serial cheater, messed up relationship after relationship. I'm not SMART enough to FIX HIM. It's sad, all the potential in the world - and I'm SURE his bunny friend see's it too - and it's wasted.

My boy is almost 4, he's going to understand more. Even the "bunny" thing caught him a little off guard, the at the door bell was ringing and his dad said it wasn't. That he answered it and it was a "bunny" when he too heard the female voice. His dad is wanting summers with my boy and I don't think I'll be able to prevent it. But how SAD for him, you know his dad will have some live in girl at some point, I doubt he'll marry again, but you never know he might think number four will be the lucky one! It's true what someone one this site said, I need to figure this out for my boy, and protect him as much as I can from this man. Life is going to be hard enough for this little boy, without his dad's garbage, without him figuring out the TRUTH. Counselors say he'll figure it out on his own, I told his dad that once and he choked. Of course he'll figure out his dad was married 3-4 times, of course he'll figure out his daddy drinks too much, there will be a day he wont' be a niave little boy. I'm not sure what he'll ask or say, what he'll think... but time will tell. I only wished in the back of my head I could fix this so he could have a mother and father in the same house.

Something has to be the last straw. Perhaps the little bunny might be it... honestly, who calls a woman at the door bunny and tells her to "go away little bunny"... it's so rediculous, this man is rediculous, his respect of women is nil. What happened to ME that I even put up with this, what's with denial and hope?

I didn't mean nicknames, ValentineSpice. I knew a wonderful lady who was called Bunny. Just a man calling a woman bunny with a lower case b sounded off. Patronizing, I guess.

Yes the term "bunny" in this case was objectification, what did this chick think, my ex is on the phone with his little boy, she came to say "hello" and got a "bye, bye little bunny, go away now... " etc.

Amazing today I got an I love you card from this man, Happy Valentine's Day. What on earth is going on in his head? Same old, oh, he'll get back with "the wife" and in the meantime... well, you know. Same as in our marriage, same idea for him right? The "what she knows won't hurt" thing.

I've got to figure out what to do here. This nightmare will go on forever, and obviously the way he run little "bunny" off he's not serious about her, and he just might move to our backyard, he emailed about a job an hour from here. I can't imagine THAT. How does life get so insane? How does a smart woman end up competing with bunnies and bimbos? Something I said to the shrink our first year of marriage about not being Hillary Clinton, but if I haven't divorced him for his behavior what am I saying? I don't believe in marriages of convenience, I never dreamed I'd be in one, never dreamed I'd live with a Bill Clinton. Gosh.

horsey2 - Do you think you have just become so accustomed to the situation that it's kind of scary to move forward with your life - kind of into unknown territory? Could that be it? It's something to consider.

I wouldn't pressure myself to date, but you do need to end it and start doing things for yourself. Maybe make the divorce your birthday present to yourself or something.

And maybe somewhere down the road someone will come along to make you change your mind and will be a good father figure to your son - someone normal.

He should be paying you child support so that you can put that aside for your son's college, and if making it legal will set that into motion, I would do it. Your son has a right to that money, and he should be getting what's due him.

I think this STRANGENESS has become "normal" to me... it's when I call really old friends that I realize how odd I've become, how different then what I was. I used to be the dreamer, the one who wouldn't even date unless it was quality, who wouldn't marry just to do what others were doing and here I am STUCK.

I had a dream last night of an old boyfriend, my first love. It was so real. It's like he was telling me LEAVE. I called him after not talking to him for a decade in Dec, he couldn't believe I'd marry someone who'd been married twice. I was stupidly buzzed and told him too much, I was embarrassed the next day. Anyways this dream. Shrinks say in our dreams we are actually problem solving. I don't think I'd really date my old boyfriend again, but I think the dream is telling me "move on"... it's like I could feel again what love was like. What respect was like. My old boyfriend used to encourage me, not tear me down. I have his old letters, he sent them even when I was out traveling, they were so cute, he respected me.

I woke up wanting my dream to be real, wanting to be in the situation from my late teens and early 20s with him. I fell back asleep. Woke up hours later back to reality. My situation, thinking of the two men, they can't even be compared. Thinking of how insane my life has been. How I've settled for being treated like THIS.

Of course my boy has been trying to call his dad tonight to say happy valentine's day, it's almost 7:30, wonder where HE IS? My boy left a message then mumbled on the voice mail, he must be at work, he's sure working late tonight. SURE. SURE. After hearing Ms. Bunny the other night at the door. My friend is likely right, instead of her leaving that night, he likely invited her in, sat her in front of the tv and went into another room to finish talking to his boy. I'm sure she'd believe the whole thing about his not wanting his boy to hear the girlfriend. I betcha that she's been in the house before and he's been in another room talking with my boy. I don't talk to him except a quick how are you.

Oh, money. He pays $500 now, only since I filed for a divorce, he refused a dime over a year when I first left him, he just laughed at me. The idea of less child support, in his income it would be $800 plus is because it's oh so expensive to travel to see his boy. He never came until I started getting serious with the divorce and he never paid until that. I can't even believe I'm this stupid, to let him stay the night in my boy's room with him last time he came so he could save two nights at a hotel. STUPID. If he wants to pay less he can pay for a motel. And I lost the time to myself, time with this man is just draining, I can't handle him around, he doesn't even talk to me - and NOW I KNOW EVEN MORE ABOUT WHY, a bunny!

Of course when we were dating it was the same. I thought he was always home at night when I called him - it was long distance - and then our first year of marriage, I got his cell records and he was calling a girl from the town he'd lived in while dating me. A teacher, 20 years his junior of course. I didn't see that one coming, a shrink that year said I'd been blind sided and I was. He seems to enjoy game playing, someone said once here that he won't get a quick divorce because still married to me he can control. Still throw out ideas while he plays the field. SICK, SICK MAN.

Why can't I see once and for all how sick he really is. I thought if he'd quit drinking, go to church, realize how wrong he'd been... something about Dr' Dobson's book on tough love. Truth is these types of men would have to actually look at themselves to change idiotic behavior. A counselor was right, they CAN'T even make that step. So money, it's not just child support, it's over 50k that I'll get out of a divorce and maybe more. I'm renting, my boy deserves to have a house we own. I have been really penny pinching the past three years, I got behind a bit and I"m trying to play catch up. This single mom life isn't easy but it's my life and it's fine.

I think I just know I'll never date or marry again. I don't have a desire. So if I end this marriage for good it's single the rest of my life. That's ok, I like this, it's fine. I don't know what the deal is. I just need to finish back taxes and get on with this divorce. Yes I have a birthday coming up, filing the day of my birthday for a divorce might be a GREAT BIRTHDAY PRESENT. I wish the divorcee was still on file. I should SERVE HIM while he's still living out of state, rather then moving back and making himself look more like a "father"... is that why he's making it look like he's NOT dating, but not trying to fix the marriage, but telling me when I go to file that he wants to "reconcile"... STUPID MAN. I"m just so sick of this LIMBO, I have morals and ethics and I don't date, of course I wouldn't expect anything but the junk that grows on my shower curtain from this JERK.

Horsey. I saw something in your post that maybe I didn't see before. You are in so much pain. He really hurt you, didn't he? And he still is, obviously. I think you will be grieving for what could have been for a while. That's a fact of life. You're the type of woman who when she falls in love, falls hard. So much so that it's hard to let go - even when all the signs say it's time.

As strange as it sounds - I think that's a wonderful trait in a person. Such fortitude and faith and strength. Any good man would be lucky to have you. Your unwillingness to let go of the marriage shows tenacity and integrity. If your husband felt the same way, I would say the marriage had a chance.

However, it takes two to make a marriage work, and by everything you have written, it is evident that your husband is not interested in changing himself or fixing the marriage in any way.

And...the longer you drag this out, the more it's going to hurt. It's like picking a scab off each time it starts to heal. As long as you stay in limbo, he has a hold over you. He's got some sort of emotional leverage.

"So if I end this marriage for good it's single the rest of my life." Horsey, can't you see that you're single NOW? The divorce is only a formality. A necessary one. Get it over with. Start your life fresh. Get your finances in order, and
show him whose boss of horsey and son. Do it. You deserve this.

Horsey, breaking it is what you need to do for yourself.

It's not your failure if you can't make the marriage work. It's not a marriage. When I look back on mine, it never was and I suspect the same in your case.

Someone had a quote here that said the opposite of love is not hate, but apathy. Many of us have gotten to the point of apathy. You haven't. See a counselor, get moving.

I always said I was a single parent in my marriage but with 3 kids. I suspect you too felt like a single parent, so this is no different for you than being married. Only, you don't seem to see all the stress that holding on is putting on you.

Yes this guy really hurt me, you are right, I am the type that falls hard and this man, his inability to be faithful, his lies, he got me good. It might be that I am so extreme that I can't let go. Even a shrink the first year of our marriage said "you are strong, I admire that BUT anyone else would have left by now."

Yes a good man would be lucky to have my loyalty and this man/monster never deserved it from the start. He certainly hasn't been able to be loyal in return. I have no idea why he "says" he doesn't want a divorce but his actions are otherwise. Another shrink told me it's "lack of character" and I think he's right, just flat out weak character and selfishness. Here I've been in the back of my head thinking "poor lonely guy" and he's probably had his "bunny" quite a time. Oh I've found him on singles site, modified first name, 5 years younger but it's been HIM. Of course I've been aware he's been "looking" and what, if something new didn't come around or work, he'd keep this marriage on the backburner as a "backup?" It's convenient as I have his son, but that hasn't appeared to be that important to the man.

You are right, it takes two to make a marriage work. Two people who are faithful even when times get tough. Oh, no, my ex has proven he's not going to take any steps to fix this marriage. Sure he'll show up for the boy, he's a huge ego boost, goes on and on about his daddy, at three he's a joy... and he's been "told" by attorneys what will happen if he doesn't show up on a timely basis to see his boy, that I could slowly take his rights away. And that maybe I should have done. I don't know.

Is it true that so long as I stay in limbo he has a hold over me. Does he enjoy THAT in some sick way? I just can't understand someone this sick and I should have quit trying long ago. This is NOT normal human behavior, at least I couldn't operate like him. Maybe a lot of the world can. I can't. I think he's sick. Likely he's still drinking. At the least he's got some big hole in his soul and lacks depth or meaning or a spiritual side, he's a hardened up old man that seems to get a little thrill here and there from control and new relationship games. He certainly got a thrill of chasing me for years, I was the hard to get one, and the ONLY one for him, but of course there were others, that's his GAME.

Yes I am single, a very single mom. There's been NO marriage for three years since I left him, likely there wasn't one before. I wasn't even WITH HIM in a married home that long, four years. Sure it took time to leave finally but I did. True I haven't become REALLY apathetic, at times I am, even about this "bunny" chick I borderline didn't care, then I obsessed about what a LIAR and a cheat and it did get to me. It did, it opened the old wounds. Just feeling vulnerable and stupid and cheated on over and over again. That's WHAT HE DOES. I had a good counselor, she was helping me and when I'm done with some hard work weeks here I'll make another appointment to see her.

I need to NOT CARE AT ALL except for worrying about my boy, what this jerk does. Bunnies, singles sites, job hunting, checking his email. NOTHING. I need to get to that complete APATHY. He's there isn't he? Other then for his child, he would be so long on with his life, not looking back. I know that. I've told him that, there's nothing left. He's made his choice just as the new counselor told me, if he admits it or not, he's not acting accordingly to what he says. He's moved on other then some little thing in the back of his head, about a little boy. I can't stand this man. And yes the wounds open then it's back to anger and the healing process over and over again.

My mom sent me a letter after I told her about the bunny. I'm sick of her too. It was about how she'd keep "praying for the healing of my family"... REALLY what would a mother tell her daughter after all of this? To go back to THAT? It's unbelievable to me. I've been pushed around, cheated on, lied to, ignored, laughed at, not supported and what sort of marriage is that, and how on earth is God going to fix something that was never whole to begin with? She is so extreme in her faith, and she influences me. But when you asked, what would I tell my own son/daughter, in this circumstance, leave, protect yourself, protect your child, and don't continue to let someone hurt you like this - someone who can't be faithful, someone who "talks" and doesn't "act"...

Pray that he doesn't move back to my state. I can't imagine THAT. But I know that if he does I'll have to move forward to set legal rules for this man. He can't be reckoned with. Two states away has been nice here for several years... now he's emailing about a job interview 45 min away. What has the "bunny" not worked out like he thought, or was she just "for fun" like the other girl he dated while dating me years ago? And he knew it all along? Either way the guy's a jerk, and I almost pity the bunny.

I think staying married is forcing you to care and that it gives you one last thread of connection.

Divorcing him may help you not to care any more and to find some closure to the marriage. You know you'll have no more hold on each other, and maybe then his transgressions won't seem so important to you.

Why don't you make an appointment with a good divorce lawyer and get things started, horsey?

If he moves back, he moves back. Get a custody agreement underway that will work for both of you and enforce it. Frankly, it might be better if he DOES live closer. That way it will be easier for you to keep an eye on him. You know what they say - keep your friends close and your enemies closer...

You are on hold. Soon you'll be older.

As Dr. Phil says it "what are you getting out of this that makes you stay?"

You get to pretend that you are married, that you are capable of being loved and can make a marriage work?
Think about what you need in your life. I hated the limbo land as my X dragged out the divorce. Why are you comfortable in this limboland.

What are you getting?

I am just about to enter what you have experienced. I don't understand women, I am clueless. What is it about love? What is it about marriage that no one can survive? I am supposed to move on with my life, I am depressed that it's over. I resent her for not loving me and finding someone else that makes her happy.

It sucks to experience this, no one should have to do it. I always thought I would live the rest of my life with her but I can't. The divine intervention thing has been the answere to me from many people. They are just trying to make me feel better.

I need to do what you struggle with, move on. There are GOOD people out there, it just seems that the people who go to this site have found the BAD people (bad as in unable to commit to a relationship).

Everyone loves their X, we wouldn't be human if we didn't love others, especially with someone we have shared our lives with.

I hope you can move forward with your life and one day be happy, you deserve that.

Yes this does suck, nothing is ever black and white. Why can't anyone stay together. I never dreamed of getting a divorce, I'm still stunned, separated three years. My ex has been divorced twice before, seems he knows how to do this and move on. I don't. I thought marriage was for life, a commitment. I thought separation might give us more hope, instead it's less.

No it's not that I enjoy "pretending" I'm married, I tell people I'm divorced most of the time. I don't think anyone wants to go through the divorce process, and the last time I tried to get through all I saw was crooked attorneys. Last time I met with one she was more rediculous then the one before. I have the name from a shrink of someone that's supposedly decent. I don't know why marriage have to end in an adversarial way through the court system and with attorneys who always win, and clients who never do.

This limbo is worse right now as I don't know what he's doing, he's losing his job to a corporate buyout. He says one day he'll move by here, another its' somewhere else. I don't know how to deal with this, I'm borrowing trouble by worrying about it, I know that. I'm working to have peace in my life -another reason I'm avoiding the adversarial divorce process I suppose. I've been through a lot. I like a relatively quiet life with my boy.

Maybe it would be better if he were closer. Now I'm clueless about what he's been up to, what's he's been telling me vs what's REALLY been going on, ie the part shock of hearing a woman at the door... it's irritating. I have a boy to worry about. I know he wants summers, I can't picture my boy going somewhere with the other woman, but it's going to happen at some point. I really have no control. But it sure does steam me when he's gone on and on about doing "nothing" when we all know what must be the truth as far as at least trying to find someone else.

There was a segment on the Today show or one of them... it was about separated couples not divorcing for the kids, staying seprarated, even some living in the same house. I agree with the theme of the show, what one shrink said, it's not possible in the long term, it's not human nature to be alone as he's been... most people would want to meet someone else in the situation he's been in. Can I blame him for trying? Especially since I've made no effort to reconcile and mostly I've told him NO. Basically I think what he said last serious talk was that I could file the divorce, he won't fight me, but he'll go to court and whine that I'm breaking up the family and he doesn't agree with it. He's going to make me do the dirty work or this will go on forever. He'll play pretend but keep looking for a replacement and I'll just hang out in limbo.

What's the point, I don't know. Sometimes limbo isn't bad. Sometimes it's meant to be. Sometimes the hurt is there to teach us a lesson. I wasn't the innocent one in this marriage, it's not us GOOD on this site vs. them the BAD. Very few marriages work that way. I was selfish, into my career, tempermental and difficult at times. Do we hurt to learn, does god strike us with hurt and pain? I've been humbled by all of this, to the point that I go to church, read, study and care more for others... No I didn't deserve the lying and cheating, and the other garbage but I was a part of this, I'm not innocent either. I have a lot of guilt, perhaps that's what keeps me from moving on, wishing I could fix my part of the past.

I need to get back to focusing on what I have been, the Secret, staying positive, not letting him get to me, eating right, exercising, going to church, etc. I've been on the right track for awhile here. I've gotten rid of most of the depression and anger from this situation, there's just things that set me off. And yes BUNNY was one of them. Who is she? It's like reliving my first year of marriage when I found the cell records of his "just a friend." I was stunned as he was always at home, just like now, I never dreamed he knew another single woman this well all while dating me. I don't get this one either - other then my friend is likely right - she's been at his house numerous times, and he's been on the phone with my boy, sounding alone, many times. It doesn't matter, other then again confirming that he's a liar. And we all know that.

by no means am I able to give advice, I just speak my mind. I guess the GOOD vs. the BAD is not a very good picture to describe what I was trying to say.

Note: Very bad with communication with women. yes, even the internet counts.

What my point was is that we have all experienced hardship with relationships and that is why we are here posting our thoughts and asking for advice.

I believe there is good in every person as well as bad. It's how we present ourselves to others and what society deems appropriate.

I am selfish for wanting my marriage to continue, I am the bad guy in the marriage. I am controling, self centered, arrogant, hurtfull, needy, hard headed, etc. The list goes on but I am sure you understand.

I am just a jerk who got what he deserved. You seem to deserve better is what I was trying to say.

I'm sorry that you feel this way about your marriage. I don't know that Good and Bad was wrong to say, sometimes I feel this site is biased, sometimes I wonder if the other person is that bad or if the person here is that good. That's all I was trying to say. I don't even know that we can analyze our own relationships that well either. I can look at mine from a number of directions and when I do it's a different story every time.

Yes we all have hardships in relationships. I watched a movie the other night, about black married people on a weekend, showing how their marriages were. It was called Why Did I Marry You? I think the movie was quite real, I think anyone married over a year or two could relate to the problems and to the question if they manage to stay married. I think we all have similar issues in many ways. Marriage is very, very hard, more lose then win at the game. It's quite sad. Sad for the good guy, sad for the bad guy. Most sad for kids, I'm sad for my little boy that us grown ups are so stupid and selfish. That we put our needs first. Maybe the day when couples stayed together because they made a commitment, because they had kids together wasn't so bad. We have freedom now to leave, to divorce, to carry on little kids ourselves. I'm not sure what the answer is but all of this hurt and divorce can't be it.

"I'm working to have peace in my life -another reason I'm avoiding the adversarial divorce process I suppose."

Horsey...Do you think if you filed he would be harder to deal with?

No, it's not that. I'm not afraid of him really, I'll admit I am afraid of attorneys and courts and people intervening in my life. We are doing fine without all of that, what we have is working for me and my boy, and my ex. Remember I had a crooked attorney take over my case, lie to me, not listen to a word, and his attorney was the biggest crook in the town I was living in. I don't think you "just go hire an attorney" and get a divorce. But I'm a former journalist, I know way too much about the "system" and I can't imagine that system is effective when it comes to divorce, what I saw was dirty and disgusting. I fired my attorney, left town and his attorney was then fired too. That did the trick. I've tried here and there in my new town to even talk to those people, I'm just not interested. I've been finding peace in my life, quiet and that's where I want to be right now, not in court fighting. I went through the death of a father, a separation, a few moves, financial issues, trying to keep a business healthy in the middle of all of this. Life hasn't been easy. I'm practicing "om"... yoga, meditation, prayer, positive thinking and readings. I've been losing weight, gaining muscle, and am feeling quite good these days. Nothing needs to mess with my state, especially dirty attorneys. I don't know when it'll be time for this, one day it will, maybe next month. I'm just not there yet. Mostly I don't think about him, I am busy with my boy and my life. This just caught me off guard. And yes it upset me more then it should have. I know what reality is here. I could be wrong. It doesn't really matter, truth is he can do what he wants, he does anyways and I can't control it. I can only work on becoming a better, happier and healthier person. I could care less about men or dating or anything really. I don't even like most babysitters enough to leave them with my boy even a night. Being a single mom isn't the greatest but it's life. I doubt there's many single moms with preschoolers that have a social life to begin with, perhaps it steams me that a man can just go do what he wants, and feeling a bit stuck. But this really is where I want to be. I have a good business, some friends, family, a nice home, and my health. It's enough for now.

Well I was thinking more today, this did drag me down and get to me.. more then I thought. Of course I knew he'd be trying to meet someone, but the reality of hearing a "voice" was HARD on me.

I need to have a talk with him, and just tell him how that hurt and figure out what it means. He can't be staying a weekend at my house with my boy, they need to be at hotels, I need a distance from him. I let him in even an inch and it bit me. Before I always made him stay at hotels and didn't let him in my house for long.

I don't know that I'll file for a divorce yet, I'm focusing so hard on my business, am getting caught up on taxes and I feel more at peace these days. I need to stay in this progress mode. He's job hunting and it'll be interesting to see what he does too, although I'm going to quit the codependent think of worrying about what he does, he will do what he will do. I'm in diet/health mode right now.

You are all likely right, I need closure here finally. Perhaps this summer/fall will be the time. I'm sure he'll stay out of state so that'll help with this...

You may be right. If he's out of work, it may not be to your advantage to file for support only to have to redo things after he's employed again? I'm not sure of the details on that, and maybe someone else will chime in.

You have to remember that you were the one that left, right? It was your choice to go, with good reason, but it was still your choice. Just as it's his choice to date. And from what I think I remember from what you've posted in the past, your staying would not have stopped him from being unfaithful? He's responsible for his own behavior, and your son won't be a naive little 3-year-old for long. It would be nice if we could protect our children from disillusionment, but it isn't in their best interests to do that either. Anyway, if we do that it could cause our kids to second guess their decision making and intuition later in life.

Just go with the flow as far as their relationship goes, horsey. And as for you - I think you will know when you're tired of dancing this dance with him and will let go when you're ready.

I think you deserve to be happy, but I also know sometimes it's hard to break away - even from negative forces simply because it's what we're used to dealing with and aren't sure how to move forward. You're brave though; you've proven that, and there isn't a doubt in my mind that you would be fine.

You're pulled in several different directions, but this isn't a life that your mother or we can live for you. It's all yours - I can only encourage you to put your son's well being first and follow your instincts.

Thank you for your thoughts, yes I made this choice and my ex continues to make his, honest or not about what he's REALLY doing the facts are there... I am tired of this dance with him. Yes when I'm READY I will let go. Just right now I'm not up for attorneys and court, not at this time. I don't see a need to hurry as it's gone on so long. But I do need to distance myself from this man more knowing what I know, and have known for a long time. As one shrink said what he says and what he does... they are two different things. It gets old, dealing with a liar. Very tiring. I'm going to keep working on my self improvement, bought a barbell set today, doing weight training and feeling stronger physically at least.

Guess it's getting serious with the little bunny, my boy called his dad tonight, his father was "short" and yes another knock at the door, but this time when my boy said "what is that" he said "the dog's knocking, she needs a walk." The bunny, dog whatever is spending a lot of time with him. My boy asked about spending the weekend at the hotel and he said OF COURSE that's what we'll be doing, spending THE NIGHT AT THE HOTEL. I can't believe I was so completely stupid to let him stay the other weekend in my home, that I cooked for him and had some mini thoughts of us getting together. STUPID. STUPID. He must have gone in another room other then the bunny, dog whatever this person is - so that he could tell my boy that we'll have my birthday party this weekend. I said NO, I wasn't interested. And he was "himself" so obviously there was no audience. SICK MAN. SICK MAN. But yes we know that he's been a liar and a cheater while married. When I go to divorce him and proceed all I get is crying, whining, etc and it works. I"m nice and I don't like others hurting. Does it appear that he's been HURTING THAT BAD LATELY? I know, I know, I know how it works. Single mom with kid stays at home every weekend, 40 years old, and single father in another state 50 something with money, of course some young bunny would be at his door - wouldn't even care that he's been married three times and of course believes his every word. He's very BELIEVABLE. VERY MUCH SO. LIAR. LIAR. LIAR.

AND he denies that anyone knocked on the door or rang a door bell, oh he doesn't have a doorbell he says, that was on tv.... THAT was on tv, a female voice SAYING HIS NAME after he finally answered the doorbell? What sort of a lying pig is this man? Of course he's lied for so long, he thinks I believe his stupid lies. I just can't believe what an idiot I've been.

Shrink says now I'm gong through the grieving process all over again. I told his father that there is NO MORE, that it's confusing to the boy that he hangs out at my home, it happened ONCE and that's IT. The boy is getting older, doesn't even remember his mother and father together. I told him a counselor confirmed it's not appropriate as there's been no marriage relationship, it's all on paper, and that he's seeing someone makes it worse.

What they say about a narrccist, what is it? Do they believe their lies? This DANCE NEEDS TO END. YOU ARE RIGHT. This is getting to exhausting, it's made me old and tired, no exercise, nutrition, positive thinking in the world is going to make up for the harm on my mind and body this relationship had for ten years. NOTHING.