The subject line refers to my story over in Surviving an Affair (see my signature for the thread).

I'm starting a thread here for several reasons. I'll try to be brief (not an easy task for me).

My track to the divorce court began on D-Day. I was so stunned by my wife's seeming change of heart and turnabout on our marriage, that at first I resigned myself to the inevitable. That she had violated every precept she seemed to hold and went outside of the marriage and had an affair with a married man just boggled my mind.

Then I found MarriageBuilders. I received a lot of good information, advice and support here. For a while hope rose that perhaps I could save the marriage. But it became apparent that while my wife exhibited all of the traits of a wayward spouse, she also had symptoms of major personality disorders and that she might be beyond marital recovery. Sadly, I had to accept this possibility and researched long and hard. While I am not qualified to diagnose, her very dysfunctional upbringing and past history strongly suggest this. Her recent behavior and the warnings I chose to ignore (multiple marriages, abandoning her children, financial irresponsibility) during our marriage support this, too.

Thus I have come to believe that not only is divorce inevitable, it is actually preferable in my case. I have been "hovering" on the SAA forum but now I'm finding that reading posts from the newcomers, as well as those struggling to save their marriages is becoming emotionally painful for me to read.

I'm having periods of "if only" thoughts: If only I'd worked a better Plan A. If only I'd said this. If only I'd exposed to X. If only...

This is pointless. As has been stated innumerable times, one can't educate a wayward, one can't change how another thinks or behaves, and one can't recover a marriage that the other doesn't want to recover.

MarriageBuilders has been a godsend and a sanity-saver for me. I have read all the articles here, have purchased three of Dr. Harley's books, and now I am working to make myself a better and more capable relationship partner. In an effort to "pay it forward," I have attempted to help others new to the SAA board. But I lack the skills or experience to do so, and I do not wish to offer advice I'm not equipped to give.

Consider this my attempt to wean myself off the SAA board and move into a newer, healthier venue. I know there is a lot of hurt and confusion surrounding divorce as well as when dealing with an affair. But I hope to find healing and hope moving ahead. My marriage will officially end in late April (unless some miracle on the order of Moses parting the Red Sea occurs). By then, my Plan B no contact (also strongly recommended by those dealing with personality disordered relationships) should have me at a point where the decree is just the "rubber stamp" on the fact that is already in place.

I wish everyone who is attempting to recover their marriages well. It wasn't destined for me, and if it doesn't pan out for you, there is still hope and healing. I'm on board this forum now, and I welcome anyone else who wants to survive it all.

Hi Fred,

Welcome! I read your thread the other day. I think you handled everything as well as anyone could have.

My 1st marriage ended in D, and it was the best thing that could have happened. I knew I gave it my best. My exH had big issues, too, so it was a dark plan B for me as well.

The year after my D was interesting. Lonely, scary, fun, exciting...

After about two years I met my current H. I was so happy not to have a psycho bully in my life that I overlooked other issues. I found myself deliberately looking for the exact opposite of my exH. Rebound can be a witch!

Take it slow, and make sure to have some fun. You'll find new stuff you never thought you'd like, so mix it up.

Try not to stress too much. I wish I had stressed less (it never helps anyway).

Please take care - Dru

Fred, I'm in the same boat. Every time I read the forums and find someone who is near or in recovery, I ask myself what I could have done differently. If they can do it, why can't I? But of course every situation is different and, as you said, so much of it relies on the WS. I guess some just never wake up. I don't think mine will either or if she does, I will never know about it cuz she won't say anything. So what other choice is there? We can't be slaves to our WWs. For our own sanity, we have to move on.

It's been 4 mos. since my D-Day and I'm feeling OK. Not great. Some days are better than others. I guess that's par for the course. WW will be gone soon and I'll be the king of the castle for a while. I think I'm OK with that. Just one day at a time, I guess.

Fred, you've already paid it forward. If it hadn't been for the guidance of yourself and a handful of other fine folks here, I'd probably still be hoping for R from my obviously unrecoverable WstbXH.

Seriously. Thanks to both you and everyone else who's coached me.

Hi Fred

I have watched your trajectory through the process of Divorce. I wished I did not but unfortunately I do understand what you are feeling. I too find it hard to read the SAA posts now. And I am migrating to this forum as well, although it is not as well traveled.

I am trying to figure out as well how to move on. I do not want to be lonely. It is hard to start over. I too am mid 50's and I sure did not expect to have to start over at this point in my life. I am not sure how one does it. I was married for 33 years and I don't think I know how to venture out into the dating scene. It seems a little daunting at this point in my life. How does a guy find a decent faithful woman? I know they must be out there as I assume there are as many shell shocked women as there are shell shocked men from being betrayed. Where does everyone go?

Any way Fred glad to see you are progressing through the stages of grief. It does seem to take time.

Take care
BCBoy

You know what, BCboy? I'm not going to look. Instead, I'm going to do things I enjoy, and not worry about finding a woman to share my life with. I am very fortunate: I have a good life! With the exception of my back (which can be addressed by surgery), I'm in remarkable good health (so confirmed once again today, in fact), earn good money, own my house, my car is paid off (and so will my stbxW's be once she returns it). My stbxW and I had no kids together, so our break is clean. The way I see it, I'm going to pursue the things that interest me, and if somewhere along the line there's a woman who enjoys them too, we'll meet.

One thing that I think becomes obvious on casual observation is how desperate some people get. I've watched guys make the rounds of a room and approach every single woman in an attempt to... what? (You know, this is what OM used to do, too. Go figure). I refuse to be desperate!!!

The reason I'm here is because I wanted so much to be in a permanent loving relationship that I allowed myself to be abused, gaslighted and blinded to reality. No more! I want to avoid rebound relationships. Life is too short to be handcuffed and narrowly-focused.

I believe what my old, dear departed friend Lynda Van DeVanter said, "God does not intend for us to be alone. There IS someone out there. She's just not ready for you, yet."

It will happen. In God's time, not mine.

Funny that you would mention this. Right after I posted to you I thought to myself "so what if you don't find someone?". I went down that thought process for a while and I came up with That's going to be OK.

So now the focus is to fill my life with meaning. I like to help others. I like to have the sense I am contributing. So I am going to get more involved in volunteering. Try to make a difference and try to help someone else. I talked to a friend of mine who works in a seniors home. They were telling me how few have family around and no one comes to visit them. That is something I can do. Let them know that someone is interested in them. I have been checking around and I am finding there are a lot of opportunities to volunteer. So I will be doing that.

It does take some adjustment. It takes time to get over the emotional trauma of a relationship breaking down. It has surprised me how long it has taken actually. But I am now feeling like I am in a better position to redefine what my new life will look like. I had spent most of my life trying to make sure others were looked after and tried to make them happy. I wanted to make sure I provided an opportunity for my children to get an education. I accomplished that and I am glad I did. However in the process I did not develop many interests of my own. I was either working or doing something for the family. Driving, attending events, and now that I am in an apartment it amazes me how much time I spent looking after a house and property.

So I think you are wise Fred. Not to rush into a relationship. I don't think I will either.

I would be curious to hear what sort of things you plan on doing with your time.

Blessings to you
BCBoy

Fred,

I don't post an awful lot anymore. But I do still read alot and I've followed your posts since your first day on MB. You did great, listened, asked intelligent questions, updated on the good news & the bad. But, as we always say, "Not all marraiges can be or should be saved." Your story isn't over yet but, regardless how it turns out, you can always know "you gave it your all".

"In an effort to "pay it forward," I have attempted to help others new to the SAA board. But I lack the skills or experience to do so, and I do not wish to offer advice I'm not equipped to give."

You don't lack the skills & experience. You have a wonderful talent for providing that shoulder all new posters need. Your responses to the new poster provide the compassion, understanding and hope we all initially come here to get. We all need to know someone heard us & cares. Don't stop helping. You're good at it and needed!!!

Thank you for the kind and encouraging words, Nerlycrzy. People like you continue to uplift me -- especially when my spirits are down. I am typically a pretty upbeat guy, but this experience has caused me to sink to some pretty low emotional depths, and I'm not always able to pull myself up without help.

Just an update to pass on my experience to others.

I had my first counseling session today with a therapist who specializes in personality disorders. The doctor admitted that it sounded like my stbxw is afflicted -- with the caveat that without extensive testing the opinion was just that: an opinion. However, it did lend some validation to my own belief, based on the research I've been doing.

However, the focus is and was supposed to be on me. I wished to understand better the behaviors that attracted her to me and vice-versa.

The good news is that according to the therapist, she does not feel that I am similarly disordered. The mere fact that I am grieving and looking into myself suggests that I am more "normal" than not. I'll make it plain that one session is not enough to close the books, but it's a good start.

My message to anyone who feels at an emotional dead-end, who is struggling to find peace and/or closure, I think counseling is a very good idea. I resisted it for a while, but when the frustration of not being able to move on became too great, I took the plunge.

Those of you who have read my story and subsequent posts will probably come to the conclusion that I'm a pretty easy-going guy. I also believe that my story isn't as emotionally brutal as most. Therefore, if I'm finding counseling beneficial, just imagine how much good it might do you!

See, you ARE able to give good advice!! lol!
Seriously, I'm a strong proponent of counseling myself, I've always felt that an annual mental check-up should be part of everyone's health strategy, although I haven't followed my own advice. IC is essential when going through things like we experience in these forums. Good therapists are hard to find however; I've developed a theory that many are simply making money by "making people feel good about making bad choices" (not sure if I picked that up somewhere or coined the phrase myself.) I don't let my therapist get away with that- I have no problem arguing a point with my personal therapist.

Fred, thanks so much for starting this post. I'll be checking in regularly. Your contributions to this entire board have been immeasurable.
You and others have hit on a bunch of important points above. I'd like to add but I have to go make pancakes for my babies. You know I'm aware of your sitch and I have to say the "I could have done...." syndrome is probably natural. I haven't had it yet because I'm very much in the process of trying to get through the legalities and finer points of a divorce with as much intact as possible (with the utmost attention being paid to the welfare of my kids). But I'm sure it will hit me at some point. And here I'll be.

One more thing. If people aren't comfortable with a therapist/psychologist (or perhaps don't have the right insurance, etc); find a priest. I've been amazed with how available my local priest has been for me. I always think how they have an entire congregation to deal with, but he can always find an hour for me in any given day (even on Thanksgiving day last year). Didn't even matter that I had fallen away from the church for years.

And quite frankly, he has been more helpful than all the counseling I've ever been to.

~opt.

Hi Fred,
I'm glad you have move over here and have come to some acceptance in your life.
I'm fairly new to the board and I have appreciated your advice and compassion when I was telling my story and my hurt over the whole situation.....
For me it somehow gave me comfort to know that what I was feeling and going through was very normal and that I wasn't the only one that it was happening to, that is how we all feel I think..... being able to totally express and tell our stories to someone/anyone helps with our healing......
I'm sorry for all you have gone through and none of us derserved to be treated in such a way.....
We that come out on the other side are strong and compassionate people and we should be proud of ourselves and somewhere when we least expect it someone out there will notice all the good in us and we will again feel like we matter to someone, in the meantime if you are like me you haven't had a lot of time to make my friends feel special because we have been so time consumed by my own life.....it's time to get back on the friendship train and just enjoy them for what and who they are, re-connect with our kids and their lives......and all that will bring the smiles back to our faces.....
I'm 53 and starting over, not sure how to go about it but willing to give it a go...
good luck fred.......I'll be looking for updates on your life for inspiration

Jessi, I am humbled that anyone would think my story inspiring. I did not save my marriage, I did not (and could not) work a Plan A that effectively set up my Plan B, and there are so many "could'a," "should'a" and "would'a"s that come to mind that make me sad and disappointed in myself whenever I think of them.

The one positive aspect to my story is that I refuse to let myself get "stuck" in the mourning/self-flagellation stage. I know I will get through this, and it will take time, help and support from others to accomplish. To do nothing, to stay mired in the misery is unthinkable to me. I'd rather commit suicide.

So my marriage fell apart. The dreams and future I looked forward to have been smashed. I need to build new ones. There was a saying that was popular in the 1970s, do you know it? "Today is the first day of the rest of your life."

If there is any success in my story, any inspiration, it's that I choose to pick up and move on. It's tough at times. One step at a time. But I will get through it.

Thanks for your support.

fred,
I to am trying to find a new life beyond all this turmoil we have felt through out our situations....I'm like you when I think of how I played a role in all this, it breaks my heart......it's so tough to let go of a life that we have imagined for so long.......
You could have hung on to the negatives in this but seem to have a good attitude about the rest of your life and taking the opportunities as they come.....
That's what I'm going to do as well, one day at a time, I do know that saying and it is true......"Today is the first day of the rest of our lives" I hope you keep positng about how your new life is going, you are ahead of me in the process and I will be able to get a better understanding of the process of healing after a divorce......

We might not have gotten everything right in our past, but we are armed with the knowledge and insight now......

Fredo -

When someone pays you a compliment....

Just say:

"Thank you."

Fred, whenever I start thinking this way I remind myself that I was willing to recover, but my WW was not. I did everything I could and reading through all your posts, you did too. Just like you, I did what I thought was right at the time. But at the end of the day, we could only go half-way on our own - the WW had to do her part. And in both our situations, she did not. And not because we failed, but because the Lord gave them the power to make their own decisions, and choose they did, despite what was clearly a better choice.

I really think that some people lack the capacity of introspection - I mean deep thought. Where you can look inward and deal with both the positive and the negative and then change what you don't like. I don't think my WW possesses this which is why any possibility for recovery is pretty much doomed. Recovery requires deep inner change - the WS doesn't have to say it outright, but it's a foremost requirement. And if they can't/won't do it, then, well, recovery just ain't gonna happen.

BUT, better days are ahead because we took the high road. Each morning we can look ourselves in the mirror and be proud of who we are and how we handled one of the most difficult situations people will ever have to face in this life. We will come out of this the better men.

Best of Luck.

Thanks, indarkness. I appreciate what you said, and I know there's a lot of truth in your words.

And to Pep, I can only say

Ma'am. YES, MA'AM!

indarkness,
thanks for posting above. Your words are encouraging to me as well. You may know I didn't even make it to Plan B. Most of the time I feel I've let MB down. I believe in the principles, but I just didn't have the strength to make them work for me. I suppose that says a lot about the situation I was in but I still feel like I let people down (so many who were encouraging me for weeks during Plan A).

Ultimately, I know MB saved me in a lot of ways. I may not have been able to save my M, but I literally would have gone off the deep end without the support I found here.

~opt

Rather than start a new thread or hijack someone else's (like I almost did to _Larry_), I thought I'd revive this one (it's been a month since the last post and it still shows up pretty high on the list. This forum is less active than the one I came from, that's for sure!

The question I'm about to pose has been asked here many times before, I'm sure. I guess I'm just too lazy to search for it right now. So, here goes:

How long does it take before just the sight of your ex (or, in my case, soon-to-be-ex) does not cause an emotional/physical reaction?

I know such reactions pass, for I experience nothing of the sort when I see my first XW. And I am fully aware that I am still in the very early stages of the dissolution of my marriage (Virginia law requires a minimum six month "waiting period" before a divorce can be filed, and there are still almost 45 days before that time is up).

However, I've been in Plan B/D without contact for a bit, and this evening I had a brush with her. I was going to a meeting and thought I saw my/her car in the lot as I entered to park. Suddenly, there she was, walking toward my car. I did a quick u-turn and drove away, and did not make eye contact with her. I know she saw me (there was no way she could not).

As I drove away I felt a rush of emotions, some anger (I don't like feeling like I can't attend a meeting I enjoy) and a bit of frustration. For, as my thread title states, I'm sleeping now. I'm sleeping well, in fact. I have been pursuing some new interests (cooking class!), traveling, and running (thank God the snow has melted!) and welcoming the onset of Spring. I felt that tonight could have been a setback, but I'm posting this in order to vent that away.

I'm not hoping for reconciliation. I'm not wishing that this is a bad dream and I'll soon wake up. I know that I'm better off without her. But I won't lie: I'm sad and disappointed that my dream of living a "happily ever after" have been dashed by the thoughtless, reckless and careless behavior of the one I thought was my truest friend, partner and lover. Not a day goes by that I don't have a moment or two of mourning and disbelief.

Knowing that I can see and speak with my first XW, I wait for the time I can do the same with the next XW. I had thought she was moving away to be closer to the other woman's husband, but apparently she still finds it comfortable and necessary to come to the "old haunts." So I will have to accept the possibility that our paths will cross.

Now that I'm not tied down to this area because of the need to be near her kids, I have the option to move. But until I can close the gap between what I can get for my house and what I owe (which is nearly $100K), I guess I am tied down - at least for a while.

So, now I've vented. Will I sleep tonight? I hope so. And some day I hope I will be able to see and meet The Leopard head on and not feel a thing.

Pretty profound words - I have to agree wholeheartedly. I am proud of how I have handled the situation and myself and will always be able to look back and say I did try and was not ugly about it. WH cannot and will always have to live with how he handled things and treated everyone around with disrespect.

Fred, seems like it's personality dependent. My ex and I still attend the same church. After our divorce, he was (and correctly so, in my opinion) removed from his ministerial position for a time of probation.

During our separation period, seeing him would make me sick to my stomach and very, very angry. And even though I�m the one who left, and even though I KNOW it�s for the best, I still grieved the death of this marriage. My counselor said it would say something very negative about me if I DIDN�T have this time of mourning/grief/disbelief.

Since I really needed the help of my church family to help me be a single mom, I made up my mind I was just going to have to get used to seeing him and eventually had no trouble seeing him almost every day. Even though he hurt me greatly, I felt bad for him more than anything. And occasionally sad, not about HIM, but rather the amount of life I wasted with him.

But last month he was reinstated in the church, and after listening to him preach about �not wanting to miss out on anything God has for him� I got so disgusted that I started trying out different churches (Didn�t God have us, his family, for him? Why was he willing to miss out on THAT??).

I don�t suppose you�d be a �nice person� if you didn�t still have time of �mourning and disbelief� that you�re experiencing. And one day, like with XW1, you�ll be able to look at �The Leopard� without twinge.

Thank you, Daisy, for the uplifting words. I don't know if your separation and divorce were due to him having an affair, but it amazes me that The Leopard can essentially "return to the scene of the crime" so to speak, and attend meetings where everyone there knows what she's done and doing. Since you mention your ex-husband was put on probation, I assume he was at fault to some degree.

I guess forgiveness is the key to everything: If the church can forgive one of its own for their sins, I shouldn't be disgusted at how accepting others can be of The Leopard's disreputable behavior.

Perhaps your ex-husband has redeemed himself. The Leopard has not.

I have been thinking today about the time when I will find myself in the same room with The Leopard and choosing not to leave. That's still a ways down the road, I'm afraid...

Awwwww, Fred.
Probably, closer than you think.

Well, the church has forgiven him and I hold no hard feelings, but I still can't listen when it's his turn to preach. ;-)

Hopefully you'll never have to find out if you'll ever be enough over her not to leave when she enters the room. But that time will come one day. Eventually.

I lost my job today.

That's twice in 15 months that I've been given my walking papers. Three times, if you count The Leopard exiting the marriage.

It wasn't totally unexpected. After D-Day I couldn't really get my head around the job and it wasn't really one that I enjoyed, anyway.

Still, I'm remarkably calm about this. When I was laid off in January of 2009, I was concerned about keeping my marital home together -- providing food, shelter, health care, etc. Now, not only do I only have myself to fend for, but I can also look for jobs anywhere in the country (with the caveat that I have to find a way to sell my house if I move).

It's only 2-1/2 hours since I was let go and already I've had one response to my first "feelers" I've sent out. I'm thankful that I have a lot of experience in a field where there is work to be had, so I'm confident that I'll be getting a paycheck long before my savings run out.

And for those who have a "second sense" about such things, I once again have no desire or thought of drinking. In fact, I ran 6.5 miles today, got laid off, sent out some email, filled up my tank of gas and mowed the lawn. Now I'm going to shower up and get to a meeting.

Love to everyone.

One CAN get through the "knocks" on life.

One door closes and another opens, Fred.

Hey Fred. I quit drinking on Nov 22. I drank pretty regular since I was in my teens, some periods more than others. Last fall I started using alcohol in a way I wasn't accustom to: as pain relief. After driving with my kids in the car (you know the proverbial "it's only a few blocks") I decided that was enough; I want to see what life is like as a non-drinker.

It has been possibly the most important change I've ever made in my life. You really hit home with me in your other post when you said "I value my sobriety now more than ever." That's absolutely the way I feel. In so many ways, I've been relieved of a huge burden.

Just thought I'd share that.


I guess the jeep should be in front of the house pretty soon.....

opt

PS - how's your cooking class going??

Hey, opt. We're "brothers in arms," I guess. In more ways than one!

My attorney sent The Leopard an email and a letter today outlining my requirements for her to keep the Jeep. Because today is the deadline according to our agreement, I have granted her five additional days to decide.

And to satisfy my requirements she must come up with a lump-sum payoff by next Monday. Otherwise, the Jeep comes back. Personally, I'd rather have the cash and the settled debt rather than the Jeep, but I'll take either. What I will NOT take is being "married" to her for the next 18 months or so through monthly payments. And I am within my legal right per our agreement to post those requirements.

The cooking classes are great! I haven't taken one in the past week or so, but that's because I've either been traveling or the course is one I've already taken (or one I'm not interested in taking).

(Incidentally, I got a phone call about an hour ago, and it may be that I'll have a job offer by the morning. I don't want to get my expectations up, but it's a nice feeling and confirms my belief that I won't have to sign up for COBRA coverage...)

Stay with it, opt. One day at a time. Nothing -- absolutely nothing -- takes priority over my sobriety.

In preparing for my court date next Tuesday, I sent an email to my lawyer asking what I needed to do.

The response was not at all what I expected.

The court date isn't next Tuesday. That's only the first date when a complaint for divorce can first be filed.

My attorney said it could be "a few months" before we could be on the court's docket.

Obviously, I misunderstood how "no fault" divorce works.

WW has to get a copy of the Complaint, can respond to it, choose to waive it, or not respond at all. If she does not respond, she has to be served. It goes on and on...

The letter from my attorney reads like a programming flowchart -- it has more nested "if" statements than a human can follow without a visual aid!

So, this is not going to be "over" next Tuesday as I'd thought.

Now I wish I had a gun. I'd go to the range and pulverize a few targets!

(I think I need to do some 6th and 7th Step work on my "lack of patience" defect).

Fred.
God's time.
Not yours.

For some reason, you will be in it a bit longer than you like.

This too shall pass.

I've never been divorced.
It's all GREEK to me.

This is what I hear from my sponsor more than anything else.

Dammit.

You are alive, Fred.
You have many blessings.

My H says "This too shall pass" over and over and over.
We remind ourselves that this applies to the GOOD things in life, as well as our trials and tribulations.

Sometimes, I cry when I hear it.
Because, some of the things that "shall pass", are things that I cling to.

It's overwhelming at times.
Life.
The journey to become our greatest possible spiritual selves.

You are alive, Fred.

Fred, depending, you should expect this to be about 6-12 months or more. I'm not sure how VA works. Every state is a little different. I didn't even have to go to court. Paperwork got filed, eventually it hit a master of the court or judge and it got signed off on. But my divorce took a long time. I'm always amazed at the people who get divorced in 6 months from filing.

FWIW, unless you have no children from the marriage, the divorce is never really final. There will be issues where you have to negotiate with your ex, sometimes you may need to get lawyers involved. Marriage is one of those partnerships that cannot be fully disolved while there are children.

I'm in Limbo, Pep.

I'm neither in a marriage nor out of it.

No children, GG.

Obviously, I misunderstood the process in VA. The six months is a required "cooling off" period before the DIVORCE COMPLAINT can be filed.

Now starts the bureaucratic paperwork, the responses, the filings, etc.

So I get to continue keeping my life on "hold" while WW gets to live out her fantasy with OM.

And not that I'm really interested, but no woman wants to date a man who's "almost divorced." Unless that woman is like my brain-and-emotionally disordered soon-to-be ex-wife.

No, thanks. I need another woman like that LESS than I need a lead pellet delivered to my forehead at subsonic velocity.

Wayzilla filed around the 20th of February 2007 and it was final on June 13th 2007. Under 4 months. Colorado loves divorce.




It's not on total hold Fred. There are lots of things for *you* to do during the wait. Hang in there.

I've been doing things, Chris.

It'll just be more of the same.

It's the FEELING of being in Limbo that sucks.

Just received a form of "confirmation" in todays' mail:

WW owes Uncle Sam just under $30K in taxes.

And that's AFTER I spent nearly $4K in getting the amount reduced.

I guess with her owing me just under $5K, I can't get moved to the front of the line.

The IRS is only the first in line. That line seems to stretch quite a ways...

"Wayzilla". My favorite moniker.

Hey Fred im kind of in the same situation Im in Limbo while my WW is living with her new bf. But you know what since we seperated and she moved in with him i bought a bike rode all around the the southeast. I got my first tattoo yesterday. And as for no women want to date an almost divorced man, I have been just doing the things that make ME happy and ive met a bunch of very nice attractive women, Im just not ready for another relationship yet myself but there have been offers. So keep doing what you love and keep a positive attitude and enjoy yourself, this will be one of the few periods in your life where you can do what you and only you want to do. live it up!

Oh Fred, I'm so sorry you have to go through this roller coaster. I hope today at least goes well- you're still filing today, right?

Daisy, I just got off the phone with my lawyer. She is going to the courthouse tomorrow and will file in person.

My retainer went to less than two dollars, so I have added enough to cover everything through the ore tenus hearing.

Now we'll see how badly she wants this. She'll receive a copy of the Complaint and a Waiver form. She has 21 days to respond.

If she signs the Waiver and returns it, the die is cast.

(Actually, the die is cast in any event. But if she signs the Waiver, the Final Decree will be issued sooner).

Okay, Fred, So it looks like this could take up to a year.

Have you and your wife been filing separately? If not, you need to read up on "innocent spouse" as defined by the IRS. Then, you probably need to hire a tax attorney because the IRS will come after you.

If you filed "Married filing separately" you are in the clear, aside from not getting any money...

BTW, if you filed jointly, you probably shouldn't announce that one this board. You never know. Uncle Sam has eyes everywhere..

Thanks, GG. The Leopard and I have always filed "Married, filing separately."

We never co-mingled assets (she had no assets to bring). Our Separation and Property Settlement Agreement (SPSA) specifies everything that is hers and mine, now and going forward.

She has taken all of hers. With the repossessing of the Jeep, I have now taken all of mine.

Today I went and donated books she left behind to the library. Our agreement specifies that anything she left behind as of April 1 becomes mine. Not wanting it, I did the best thing I could.

Thank goodness for small blessings.

In looking back, it's almost as if The Leopard knew this was going to happen. She never wanted to have joint accounts, and knew that her credit rating was in the toilet. When she decided to bail and find her next husband, it was almost as if she was prepared.

every little step forward is progress...

It's often two steps forward and one step back, but yes, it's progress.

Within the next two hours or so I expect to hear from my attorney that my Complaint For Divorce has been filed.

That's progress.

Progress doesn't always wear a smiley face.

Hey Fred-O,

Keep moving forward. Keep progressing.

Looks like you and I will be seeing each other fairly regularly on the D&D thread......

TB

Uh...

Is that the "Divorcing/Divorced" forum, or the "Divorced & Dating" forum?



OK, just a poor attempt at levity.

P.S. My attorney did file today. A copy is being sent to both me and The Leopard.

You know, something was bothering me. I think it's the word "progress." In general it means moving forward. I just don't think it applies very well in the case of divorce, at least not the way I experienced it. It felt much more circular like getting ready to leave the house in the summer. I go around and close all the windows and doors in case we get a thunder storm. Start to walk out, remember to grab my cell phone. Wait--Did I leave the iron plugged in? My hand is on the door, but then I turn around to grab the mail that needs to go out today. Finally, I'm ready and everything is shut down and gathered up and I walk out the door, closing it behind me.

I think it IS progress though, Greengables. The late Paul Harvey used to say, "not everything that we call 'progress' truly is." And I think some things that we may not think of as progress actually are.

Please try to follow me on what is likely to be a very weaving path.

A couple of weeks ago I heard a pastor give a sermon on "how do we forgive when we can't forget?" He told a story from the Bible about the brothers Jacob and Esau. I don't recall the story, and it isn't that important, anyway. The upshot is that Jacob and Esau were lifelong adversaries, even though they were brothers.

There came a time when the two met. Jacob had 400 soldiers with him and Esau thought they were to do battle. But the 400 were intended to be an escort for the brothers.

Esau saw that his brother meant him no harm, and they reached a point of forgiveness (I am probably mangling this story to no end). But rather than ride back together, Esau chose to ride in a different direction. Even though he had found forgiveness, he also realized that the two could not exist together due to the history between them. So they went their separate ways.

This story affected me profoundly. Because I know that my stbxw is a "sick person." It is not her fault. And it is beyond my skill and means to help her. So I have forgiven her.

However, knowing what I know, I do not want her back. I take no joy in knowing that she's on a path of self-destruction. I'm not a betting man, but I'd wager the mortgage on her affair falling to pieces within two years, tops.

I am not going to stand and watch in glee as her world comes tumbling down around her. In many ways, it already has. And it always will. That's her disease.

So, sadly, I go my separate way. I truly did love this woman --or at least the woman she made herself out to be for me-- but it's ruinous to me to try to salvage something that isn't there.

I haven't seen the signature recently, so I don't know who used it, but someone has a line to the effect, you can repair a broken vase but you can never be 100% sure it will hold water. Because the only outcome of me pursuing a recovery of my marriage will be me being dragged down and not her being pulled up, it's best that I take the necessary steps to terminate it.

Yes, Greengables, I consider that progress.

I feel pretty much the same way you do Fred. Really, really loved my wife. And still do. But she's got some bigger issues that have reared their ugly heads.

Probably just best to go our separate ways and watch her downfall from a distance. I just hate seeing my kids get dragged down with her.

This is called hypervigialance. When you have recieved a trauma, emotional or physical, your body/mind goes into this mode.
OHMYGOSH! did I forget the iorn? (no, you did not)
OHMYGOSH! I didn't lock the door (you did)
OHMUGOSH! I forgot to pay the.....(normally you have.)

This one got me for years (still does)

Have you ever been driving and making a left, get "a sense" that someone was going to run the red and smash your car? Look. look. -mini freak- whip head around again- to check again..... hypervigilance?
Drives you nuts. I am told it gets better in time.

Fred, I was only arguing semantics not the reality.

Barbie, I'm laughing. Anytime one of my kids is in the shower I go into hypervigilence. Unfortunately, aside from yelling in "Are you okay?" there's nothing I can do. Logically, I know I won't find them dead in the shower. But also logically, I know it can happen because it did happen.

That sudden-onset lead poisoning can be no fun. Any high impact ailment really messes up your day.

My copy of the Complaint arrived in the mail today. It also had a copy of the Waiver form she can sign and notarize which will free her from the need to show up in court.

My attorney sent it to the PO BOX she'd given (I sent the lawyer her "real" address, but too late), so it remains to be seen how soon she'll receive it.

I can't help but wonder if she'll make a beeline to the notary so that she'll be "getting out" ASAP, or if she'll drag her feet, perhaps having a moment of regret (or simply just trying to drag things out). Not that it makes a difference to the end result; it's just a bit of mental SF.

I guess I'll find out when my attorney notifies me that we're on the court docket for my ore tenus hearing.

Hang tough Fred...

I suspect I will be on your heals... or perhaps even though starting late, get there ahead of you. We have a 60 day wait after filing, which was 4/12 I think. The paperwork is actually unclear and it could be 4/5, not that it makes a difference in all reality. If she doesn't contest the prenup and we find common ground on a couple of holes, then we should be done before Fireworks fly.

That's alot of 'ifs' though. I have something to pick up at the postoffice tomorrow and it probably is for a preliminary hearing so she can have some MORE money to live off of. I will contest it, given that she emptied my bank account completely 4 weeks ago, leaving me with nothing. I think she can get out and get a REAL job. She subs as a teacher when she needs to 'get out of the house'. I think she is in for a rude awakening when she actually is expected to be somewhere each and every day. She hasn't worked in quite a while, and has really been enjoying the 'paid for' lifestyle. Oh... I will be giving her some money, as per the prenup. This is fine with me. It will be less than what I would have spent on her living with me. She was one expensive wife, that is for sure.

Isn't it funny how it turns out that way?

I never "ran a tab" while we were married, but since she decided the Other Man was better for her than me, I've realized how much she cost.

Let's hope OM can afford her...

You know there is a very, very crude saying they have for this. I will NOT post it here...
Afraid I will get 2 x 4'ed into oblivion.

Not to be overly harsh, barbiecat, but if you weren't going to post it here, why did you post the above?

A clue, maybe...?

People told me I'd have a ton of work and a lot less money without B. Nope. Sure, there was less money, but I was able to stay in the house. Sure there was more work, but not that much more. How are is throwing in a load of laundry? Plus the savings of having someone who reads the labels and sorts by colors is amazing.

And honestly, after watching the financial stuff for the last 7-8 years, I believe that B was sponging off of me. He seems to have a lot more disposible income now than he ever did when we were married. Back then I had to ask him to contribute money to the household bills every month. I have never known how much B made, and still don't. Better that way.

I was wondering whether my stbxh was going to find a case of "sticker shock" if he moves in with his illicit romance partner. I'm a laid back person, I don't have any expensive habits (other than a nice vacation trip, when I can get it). I don't like jewelry, I don't spend a lot on clothes, I don't accrue a lot of possessions. I was slow to anger, quick to make up, I worked full time and handed my check over to WH because he paid the bills. I was pretty good in bed (although WH's sex addiction meant that enough was never enough), and I was totally faithful in our 33 year marriage. Even WH describes me as a "low maintenance" wife.

He may find new woman to be a high maintenance drama queen with expensive tastes. And if she is as sexually needy as he was, he may find that he can't keep up with HER, and will probably find out what if feels like to be cheated on.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just "shuffle the deck" on this site, and see our wayward spouses matched up with each other, instead of us. I'd bring popcorn and watch that drama!

If we all get together, I bet we can buy an island somewhere and drop all the ex's there.

you guys are 2 funny.
Around the time W started being WW, she wanted to "help out" by taking control of paying the bills. So she got the passwords and we refinanced and we changed banks. She then thought it would be good to pay extra on the mortgage (like $400/mo). All seems real fishy now. Was she trying to have more of the house paid off for some reason that I can't figure out even now?

Either way, it prepared me for the extra money that's now going out to CS. I cut back on the heat, water, electricity cause she's not home all day to run up the bills. Quit drinking through all the revalations - there's >$50/wk btwn booze and all that goes along with it. Don't go out or order out as much b/c I've discovered a love for cooking. More time to make the kid's lunches - no more buying at school. No more trips to the Caribbean - we'll camp instead, and have just as much fun.

It probly ain't all that good, but I try to look at the bright side.
opt

MB is teaching me to write concisely. This is a bit lengthy, but I'll try to make it as brief as possible.

Three days ago I was asked to be the speaker at an A.A. District event. I agreed, but was dismayed to hear the topic: "Serenity Under Fire." But I never say no when A.A. asks.

I arrived at the appointed time, and who should walk in ten minutes later than The Leopard. "Huh," I said to myself, "what is she doing here? It's a ways from her new place and the food is spaghetti (she abhors pasta)?"

The organizer of the event said he could get someone else to speak if her presence bothered me, but I said no, I would go ahead.

Since much of the "fire" I've been feeling lately is a direct result of The Leopard's adultery and the crushing of our marriage, I felt I had to address that in my talk.

First, I mentioned an occurrence that happened when I was young in A.A. concerning an injury my daughter suffered. Then I recounted the events of late: my "back attack," losing the first of two job losses, my wife "losing her job" and finally culminating in her announcing her wish to leave the marriage. I did not mention that she had gotten fired or that she was committing adultery. I did mention that I had filed for divorce this week, so if she hasn't checked her mail, she knows it now!

Toward the end of my talk I asked the audience for a show of hands. How many were feeling "under fire?" The Leopard, sitting all the way in the back, raised her hand. How many were feeling serene? A good number of hands. I then indicated The Leopard and asked if she wanted to share about how she felt "under fire." I guess I caught her by surprise, as she stammered a little in disbelief and then spewed some nonsense about me harassing her, stalking her and something I couldn't make out.

When she finished, I turned to the audience and said, "Ladies and gentlemen, meet my soon-to-be ex-wife. The woman I have not spoken with since January and who I have visually encountered four times since. I turned and left three of those four times."

I then asked for more q&a from the audience and then ended my talk.

I had a number of people come up to me afterward telling me how well I managed the situation. One person put it best: "A great demonstration of serenity under fire when the fire is right there in the room."

The best is yet to come.

As I was making my way out of the building I had to walk past The Leopard, who was speaking with someone. She caught my eye as I was walking and in a neutral voice asked, "Can we talk for a few minutes?"

In an equally neutral voice I replied, "No."

And I kept on walking.



And oh, a postscript. I saw her drive away in a Honda Civic that was at least several years old. With new car plates on it. It's no Jeep.

Hey Fred-O,

Nicely done. You really are doing awesome. I hope you know that. Keep setting a great example for the folks who find themselves in a boat similar to yours, but who just haven't rowed as far along as you have.

TB

Fred,

It's never a dull moment on you threads.....

I got to agree with BT you've done an awesome job.....

Did you drive the Jeep ????

Do you have the plates on it yet ??????

Please tell me yes and the Leopard saw the Jeep !!!!!!!

You just never know when those opportunities will present them selves .........

Wow Fred, that is some story! Serenity under fire, thinking fast, and balls of steel! So happy / proud for you... you will be able to use that one for smiles if you need them for a while.

Not to mention the tremendous example you provided for everyone there who might be tempted at some stressful point, to see how it is done, live!

Love the license plates as well...

Check it out, SC. here.

I don't know if she's seen it, yet. But enough people have that I don't doubt word has gotten back to her.

OK, somebody smack me.

A couple of times today I felt "bothered." And I finally realized what was bothering me. It's been an unidentifiable uneasiness that's dogged me since near the beginning of this miserable time.

Here it is: I've been wondering if maybe I didn't give it my all?

What if The Leopard isn't personality disordered, but is just another run-of-the-mill wayward? And I didn't fight hard enough to work Plan A, expose the affair and show her the best husband she's ever had?

Stories abound in A.A. of the given-up-for-dead drunk who ultimately manages to turn it around and get sober. Could it be that I gave up too soon, and that she truly is redeemable?

Alright, I know that I've spent the past months studying, researching, getting counseling and generally coming to an awareness of not only the condition of The Leopard, but of myself as well.

I'm hardly a perfect man. I didn't realize it until recently, but impatience is a major character defect of mine. My daughter, like her mother, is missing the "punctuality gene," and her expected tardiness still irks the bejesus out of me!

The Leopard and I were married within eight months of us meeting. I guess I wanted "instant recovery" after D-day. Ha!

Maybe I'm patting myself on the back too much, but I'm pleased with the way I was able to resist getting back into her vortex yesterday.

Plan B - even when it's the lead-up to Plan D, works!

Fred-isn't it true that it is the "given-up-for-dead drunk" who is the one who manages to turn things around and get sober? No one else can do it for them, correct? If that is so, how could it be that YOU gave up too soon on the Leopard? It wasn't your job to "redeem" her.

To quote Dr. Phil: "The only person you can change is you." Or, as the saying goes: "you can lead a horse to water..."

Yes, johnstwin. Thanks.

Fred, I honestly think that for conscientious guys like you (and myself) that this question never quite goes away. For me it's really the one thing nags me the most about all this D crap. Can I really, really look my kids in the eye and say I did everything I could?


How well do you know your WW? Can you make a reasonable prediction that IF, IF she were to redeem herself from the tremendously bad choices she has made, it will be on far too long of a time-table to be fair to you? Am I making any sense? From what you've told us here, I don't see that much potential for your WW; I think she has serious issues that will take a long time to straighten out, if she chooses to try.

In case it helps, here's how I look at my situation: I've know WW for 20 years. I think I can reasonably say that she's never going to subscribe to the MB philosophy. I also don't think anything I could have done would have persuaded her to do so (Plan B, Plan anything). If I'm wrong, well good for her and good for her new husband, when that day comes.
On the other hand, there's someone else out there who I have a better chance at building a real marriage with. I may never find her. But I feel my odds are better with someone I have yet to meet than with someone I 'shared' 20 years with.

Selfish? Maybe. I had a biblical excuse to bail before I went through the same trauma again down the road, or died trying to avoid it.

Not sure if that gives you any perspective, but I can definitely identify with your apprehensions. Thanks for laying it out there - good food for thought/discussion.

**Would you say that you're running up against these doubts in your mind TODAY, because of the interaction you had with WW? I'm not criticizing you, but I think this is why Plan B is supposed to be air-tight.

opt

Fred,

Been hanging out over here on the dark side..... funny I never used to look that this board now I have trouble looking at the SSA one....

Sooooo I missed your tags on the other thread that makes me laugh... and yes I'm going to steal that one if I can get my hands on the CJ-7 I gave the WW for our 20 anniversary.....

Dr. Harley talks about as we work our way thru plan-A and plan-B .....that as we reach our limits (what ever they are) and we end up (where you and I are now) divorcing..... that in the end that we will have less regrets .....not that we won't have them just that there will be less of them.....

I think it's natural to second guess what we could have done.....might have done..... should have done......

What we tend to forget was the living H we were in at that moment and that we did the best that we could at the time.... You know your character, the man you are, and what you have done to attempt to restore your marriage.......

In your heart you know there are no real regrets there ....you did everything possible.....

It's ok to be proud of the effort you have done



(You know I writing this for myself as well)

Fred, a word of warning...

Please be careful about antagonizing your STBX. I'm not judging your actions, and I don't even know if your STBX was antagonized.

Now is the time to keep the ends clearly in the center of all your actions with her. I'm not sure exactly what your goal is. In your shoes mine would be to get away as quickly and as cheaply as possible. This won't happen if you make her madder than a hornet.

Fred,

I just heard about a book that might be helpful for you (just saw it today on my lawyer's desk, of all places). It's called, 'Splitting- Protecting yourself when divorcing a Borderline or Narcissist" by William Eddy.
My lawyer said it was a very good book (and he obviously has a lot of BPD divorces he deals with).

I'm trying to think of anyone else that could benefit from this. Supposedly it's good for rec. what to do and not do when divorcing in order to spare yourself tons of more $$$ and pain due to their vindictiveness.

I know someone else who strongly, strongly recommends this book if your STBX suffers from a personality disorder.

I went to the on-line book place I normally order books from (don't know if I can say the name here) and for some odd reason the price for this book was $178!!!!

If you Google the title, you can find it at a BPD website for $25.

I heard about this book on another site dealing with BPD/NPD and related disorders.

The only "protection" I need at this point is emotional. The financial details have already been covered in our Separation and Property Settlement Agreement.

OK, so I probably will never see the $4,800 she owes me, but that's not enough to send me to the funny farm.

I can see how this might be valuable when their are joint accounts and an unclear division of property, but in my case it would just be leisure reading.

You know, Fred ... you don't have to. She was the wayward, not you. There was no law saying you had to try at all. You did try, you made a really good go of it, you went above and beyond the call.

Fred, you are amazing! I wish I had opportunity to read the board every day so my response would be more timely. But this is great! Keep plugging... you'll get there.

My attorney sent me an email today. It was a copy of a message she'd received from The Leopard.

Two aspects of the message stood out to me.

The first was the notion that she was maintaining a Post Office Box to "protect her privacy from me" (as a result of the snooping I did months ago, she is now convinced that I am "stalking" her - to this day!).

The second is that she seems to have received the Complaint for Divorce copy that was mailed to her, and she seems to want to be sure I have "signed it" first. Uh, I filed it. I don't have to sign it.

Her wording just seeps with wayward fog and entitlement

Oh, please. Get over yourself. You're not that important and I have no desire to "stalk" you and keep tabs on you.

And

She just doesn't want to be the first to be the "bad guy," does she?

At least the horses have made it past the last turn and are headed down the home stretch.

She wants to get rid of the PO box because she can't afford it.

opt

It was stupid of her to keep it after she moved into her apartment, anyway.

She wants her "privacy" from me? Get real.

Oh, an update: She asked my lawyer to send her a "softcopy" (electronic) version of the complaint so she could "review" it pending receipt of the hard copy.

Gee, all she has to do is go to her PO Box...

No response.

And that's exactly what she's going to get.

Everything she needs to know is contained in the Complaint.

Which is sitting in her PO Box (well, my lawyer _did_ send her an electronic copy).

This has been a terrific Sunday!

I woke up early this morning. Early enough to decide to go run an inaugural 5K (new readers to this thread might not know that I've been bedeviled by a back/leg problem for the last 18 months or so). It was the best run I've had in two years. Or more!

They didn't break down the runners into age groups, but I checked the results and learned that no one older than me finished ahead of me. I'm very pleased. In fact, I finished 93rd out of 230 runners, which puts me in the 40% bracket. Not bad for an old guy, eh?

So I capped off my morning by showering and changing and going to church. Where I took communion for the very first time in my life! It's a Presbyterian church and their only requirement for communion is that you believe in Jesus. I've struggled with my personal belief in Jesus, but something the pastor said this morning got me out of my chair and into the communion line: "Heaven is wherever Jesus is. There are no tears in heaven. There is only love and mercy. Jesus will take away your pain and tears if you want him to."

I want him to.

It's been a terrific Sunday!

Fred,

Good job on the 5K run! I've often "thought" about entering a run but haven't taken any steps to do so. So far, just thinking about it is exhausting! Congratulations!!

So did you like this church? Think you might go back? I don't struggle with my belief. I do struggle with actually ATTENDING church. I spend the entire time in tears. I don't know why... but for me church brings out the Coulda beens,,shoulda beens, wish it was,,kinda thinking I guess.....

I've been going to this church since Easter, when I was invited by my neighbors. I -do- like it. Services are held in a high school cafeteria, the pastor is a "plain Joe" type of guy, the atmosphere is laid back, and there's a lot of community involvement. The "community" of the church is appealing, too. I've been "sequestered into boxes" for a number of years: work, A.A. and my marriage. It's nice getting out.

I also find the pastor's sermons resonate with me. He's very aware of the imperfections of humankind, and his sermons resound with the message of healing. I'm sure there are all sorts of reasons people go to church, but I am finding some peace and balance there. Call it healing, if you will. It seems to be filling an empty spot in me.

Fred it has been my great pleasure to see how you dealt with this time in your life. Also for your responses to my posts which are very insightful and supportive.

I wondered if you had experienced that reaction like I have many times before of when once enlightened about how things would have gone different...if.. woulda coulda shouda. Basically guilt about how things turned out.

I think that it should be very obviuos that because you are here, because you reached out and took that humble step towards recovery, that you did everything humanly and spititually possible to help your Leopard, that it can be given over to Gods hands for her life and you have shined.

You probably have read my story as little parts of it have been scattered in my posts but you will recognize that there is a time to call it quits and I allowed things to do quite a number on my life. I could elaborate but its not nessesary. I envy Ladylonglegs and wished many could retain such a sense of self that they would act as she had. My only excuse was the children, without them I would have stayed away from my waif of a wife.


I just want to congratulate you again for letting God reach into your heart and the healing process you have been in.

Grats on the race too BTW. I used to love to run just for the sake of it. LOng distance for thinking and sprints for show lol.

Fred, I'm glad things are looking up for you

I guess it's all a matter of perspective, Daisy.

I'm unemployed and my marriage is coming to an end.

I could either take a deep dive into Lake Pity or choose to believe better things are coming my way.

I don't like being unemployed. I don't like that my wife ran off with another man.

Stewing in self-pity isn't going to move the ball down field, however. Mood follows action.

So I'm trying to be active.

Thanks.

Hey Fred -

Glad to see you are generally in a good space, and thinking of you often. Keep active.

Hey mfoss, I ran a personal best 5K last weekend! Not bad for a guy who a year ago wondered if he'd ever run again. A 10K tomorrow, but I came down with a cold, so finishing is the only goal I'm shooting for.

A couple of brief updates. The first is kinda funny, in a pathetic sort of way.

I received an email from my lawyer, forwarding a message she'd received from The Leopard. It started with an obvious dig at me: "I'm sure Mr. Fred will be happy to learn I plan to legally change my name." She then went on to say that while she knows she signed a waiver of any further notice, she hoped my lawyer would send her a "courtesy email" once the divorce has been finalized so that she can begin the name change process.

Silly. Anyone can legally change their name. It doesn't require a marriage (or divorce).

And when was the last time anyone heard of a lawyer giving anyone (especially their "opponent") a "courtesy" anything? When I next speak with my attorney I will indicate that if she wishes to send my ex a courtesy email I will have no objections. But if it's a billable action, I don't wish to pay for it.

The other update also came from my attorney. The court has approved my complaint/petition and I can get a date for my Ore Tenus ("oral testimony") hearing any time I can arrange for my witness to have the time free.

So, it looks like I will have my divorce finalized just days before the anniversary of our wedding.

It sucks Fred. Hopefully we will keep on the path to personal recovery.

Fred - AWESOME job on the 5K! Woot Woot.

And yes, you are right---life is all about perspective.

Yes, you are getting a divorce. Yes, you are un-employed. Yes, you are facing a difficult time in your life emotionally and mentally.

And here comes the BUT...

You are alive and healthy---look at you running! You have the strength to get through this divorce and find happiness! You have the skills to find a new job! You are a good person, whom other good people can appreciate! I mean there are just so many "buts" here...

You are at a fork in the road---the old life you once knew is ending and now you're faced with the decision of where to turn. We can either lament the ending of the old road or celebrate the beginning of a new path. We all know that celebrations are so much more fun!

That may not be such bad timing, Fred. You know the anniversary of your marriage will be difficult, and that the anniversary of your divorce will be difficult memories, too. At least having them coincide avoids having another perfectly good date to be ruined.

Hang in there!

(crap; I screwed up the quote and post technique. I plead technological handicap.

I agree with Ellen. When we filed the courts were moving quickly and there was a chance our court date could have been on our anniversary. I welcomed that. Things got backed up in the meantime, so now I have two separate negative anniversaries to look forward to each year, 2 months apart from each other.
I suppose the first go-around will be the hardest.

opt

Hey Fred,

Great news on the 5k effort!

I envy the fact that you have a clear timeline to your D, I am still working on that.

Be well, and be happy!

Today being Memorial Day I went to the annual picnic that is held less than two miles from my home. It's a big event; several hundred people attend every year.

I was hesitant, at first, since The Leopard and I worked to put this picnic together in years past. I didn't know how I'd feel if I went and saw her there.

I needn't have worried. She wasn't there (although I thought she was at first -- there was a woman with a daughter and a dog that all fit the description). I wound up having a long talk with a friend of mine, though.

This guy freely admitted to me that he still speaks with her often. He likes her and wants her to be happy, but he also was one of the first to tell me that marrying her wasn't a good idea. I now tend to take his words with less than total honesty, but it's his honesty, if you know what I mean.

The most remarkable thing he said was that she seems to be miserable these days. He understands (in his inimitable, "West Virginia" way) that she's "broken" and is looking outside to fix herself, not inside. He knows OM is supporting three kids and a wife who won't divorce him, and believes the affair is all but over. "If he is coming back, it's only to get laid."

Well, that's all he wanted anyway, but I digress.

He didn't tell me if she was working, yet. But he said her employment avenues are very limited. After all, she has no degree, and she's now blacklisted from counseling.

When asked why he thought she was still coming around to A.A. meetings here, he said it's because she hasn't "grounded" herself, yet. But he also said she seems to be doing less and less in A.A. Here's a funny: She told him her sponsor said she should "confront" me about MY behavior! I told him that I hadn't talked with her in months and turned away the few times I had seen her, I didn't know what behaviors she was talking about. But he did say that her appearance at the spaghetti dinner where I was asked to speak was intentional, with the idea of said confrontation. I guess my refusing to speak with her was better than I thought.

Opt and SC, you've commented on the emotional difficulties I've had. Just today I read another article by the amazing Dr. Tara Palmatier that once again so closely depicts the kind of relationship I was in that it's almost scary. I wasn't victimized by the physical abuse that the letter writer experienced, but otherwise, our relationship was very much like that in the article. And the emotional difficulty is explained there, too. Which helps me understand and heal.

And I am healing! I'm not sure people with Cluster B personality disorders are capable of feeling remorse, but I took away from the picnic today that The Leopard is not enjoying her new-found freedom.

I doubt that she'll try the Hoover maneuver, but I've healed enough that I won't let myself get sucked in. Both MB and Dr. Tara both insist that NO CONTACT is the rule. And I plan to abide by it.

I'm glad she wasn't at the picnic, Fred. Do you think having her as the subject of your conversation with your friend was helpful?

As for SC's and my comments, I'm sure you understand we weren't trying to make a specific example out of you Fred. Although I certainly could have refrained from using your name, so I apologize for that.

Is it possible that, besides the abuse of adultery we've all experienced (for the most part around here), we as divorcing ex-marriage partners feel somewhat abused in other ways as well? As I've gotten some breathing room from WW during separation, I've come to thrive on various projects that would have had me in knots during the marriage: WW was often discouraging to me when it came to completing projects around the house. I no longer hear her voice critiquing me or otherwise being unsupportive. Just one example of how I almost feel I was victimized (too strong of a word, I know) in the relationship. I had poor boundaries with wife (helped lead to her A); is that a commonality we all share?

Fred, I think you're taking a very methodical and purposeful approach to your recovery. You seem to be turning all stones and allowing yourself to feel the feelings as they come, rather than rushing through. That takes much patience, and it is the right thing to do. I hope I can be so strong.

opt

Yes. Although as I learned months ago, "friend" isn't quite the friend I thought he was. Or, maybe I should say "friend's morals and values aren't what I thought they were." Not that he's trying to move in on her, but just that he has a different set of standards and "acceptable practices" than I do.

No need to apologize, opt. We're all adults here, and after all, if the shoe fits...

I don't know. On another thread, in the SAA forum, Enlightened_Ex made a great point (at least I thought so) that he believes women leave men in many cases because while the man may be doing all the thing he believes is the expected part of the husband, but the woman believes she's been neglected because her top EN isn't being met. Is that victimization, or a lack of communication?

Thank you, opt. That's quite a compliment. I don't know if it's "methodical" or not, but I have to believe recovery is possible. This isn't how I thought or dreamed things would turn out, but without the faith or hope that things will somehow be okay, I'd be in a pretty terrible place.

Fred,

Kind words and encouragement from a forum I've rarely visited. You've been a great friend to me, and done more than I ever had any right to ask of you, out of the blue and all.

Wish I could say I was releasing you from duty, but the clouds on the horizon ain't going away I fear...

A manana.

HBS

A good point indeed.
This stuff is so complicated and let's face it D is ugly. A friend reminded me tonight: "you can't make chicken salad out of chicken droppings no matter how much mayonnaise you add to it."

I'll stick with the poor communication theory and hope I don't make the same mistake with the next contestant, if there is to be one.

~opt

We have a date.

A court date, that is.

My daughter has been approved as my witness and we will be finalizing the divorce a week from today.

I am happy (?) to be seeing the end of this. In fact, our wedding anniversary is June 21st, and I wanted to be out of the marriage before that date, so it will be done before then.

Great Fred. Hopefully this will provide some sense of closure or finality. I'm hoping to get the same on June 18.
As my lawyer warned me - court is a very cold place. I expect the process to be emotionally draining quite frankly.
Good luck with this "next step" in the process.

opt

Fred, my D is moving right along too. And later this month is our anniversary. I still live in the same house as WW. It will be interesting to see her mood that day.

By this time tomorrow I will be an unmarried man again.

The court appointment is for 10:00 a.m. By 11:30 I expect to be eating lunch -- my first meal in years as a bachelor!

I know it sucks, but you can also look at it as an official "new beginning".

Good Job on the 5K. I've been running again for the last 1.5 years and set a new PR back in May. Me and the kids went to a big race on trails while the WW slept off a hangover. The more things change...the more they stay the same.

Just wondering, do you still wear your ring? Or have you taken it off before now.

I think Ill keep mine on as an act of defiance until the ink is dry. My WW hasn't worn hers in months.

Thanks, Schtoop.

I've had a rough couple of days, but not because of the divorce. At least not directly.

Yesterday I went out for a 10K training run and halfway through felt an all-too-familiar "twinge" in my back. Uh-oh. Not good.

I finished the run (not much else I could do - I was three miles away from home), but I've been limping and swallowing ibuprofen like candy ever since.

So tomorrow I go to court, unemployed, in pain, with no health insurance, to get a divorce from the wife who should have stayed by my side in my time of distress but chose to go off with another man instead.

Given that hope springs eternal, I have decided that when the court appearance is done, I'm going out and buying a lottery ticket!!!

At 10:45 a.m. I walked out of the courtroom with my daughter, my attorney and a law student (who had accompanied my lawyer).

As my daughter observed over the lunch I bought her, "It's not like there's any difference in your life from the last six months."

She was wrong. There is one difference: I can now file my tax returns as "Single" rather than "Married, filing separately."

Fred, congratulations. I am glad you are free. I know there may be a huge swell of emotions, or there may be a curious lack thereof.

Strangely enough, I remember the same day for my father's marriage with fondness, although at the time it was pretty terrible for me. If the same is not already true for you and your daughter, I hope you will find that it will be some day.

Glad the two of you got to have lunch together. Lunch with my dad is the main thing I remember from that day.

Thank you markos.

It's not a happy day for me, but it's not really a sad one, either. My daughter remarked to me that however I looked at it, I got what I needed.

As I was driving her back to her house (she still had to go to work) I told her that if there was one benefit to the whole ordeal it was that I had acquired a much better appreciation for her. She admitted that we had become much closer as a result.

Sadly, the marriage had done a lot of harm to the relationship between my daughter and me. I will never again allow someone else the power to become that divisive.

Lessons learned.

Now, on with my life. Today I am researching health insurance for the self-employed. I aggravated my troublesome back Monday, and I fear I will need medical attention to correct it. This could be more of an ordeal than my divorce.

An interesting (to me, anyway) side note to today's hearing:

There were five or six cases heard before mine. I was appalled that every single one of them were marriages that had "failed" in three years or less (but the separations had lasted more than a year).

I felt like the "marriage veteran" in the courtroom. Although my time from separation to finalization was the shortest...

Hey Fred - congrats on clearing the final procedural hurdle. While it is no doubt a little sad and certainly emotional, you are now able to move forward freely. Good for you!

Hey, Fred. I hope you will find happiness in your new bachelorhood. I know what you mean about feeling like the "marriage veteran". When anyone hears that I am getting a divorce after a 33 year marriage, I get reactions of horror, and unhelpful comments like, "wow, that was most of your life", and "couldn't you have just toughed it out?" It makes it especially hard since I didn't want a divorce to begin with, and would have loved to be married for the rest of my life. But when your partner hits the Exit button, you are pretty much swept along for the ride.

It may sound crazy, but just the title of this thread is enough was enough to make me feel like my stomach dropped. That two word sentence says so much and is just so final.

I'm really sorry to read all that you've been through, Fred. I hope it doesn't take long before this feels like much more of a change for the positive than like a negative experience you are trying to move on from.

May bachelorhood become comfortable and, dare I say, an exciting time for you as soon as possible!

Fred, I just wanted to let you know I was thinking and praying about you on my way to work this morning.

Did you buy a lottery ticket??

Thank you for the prayer, markos.

No, I haven't bought the lottery ticket, yet. But I will.

Believe it or not, I don't know how. I don't want to just go up to the counter and say, "I'll buy one of those," and point to some gaudy ticket. I want to buy a "special" ticket -- Powerball or something. Yet I have no idea how one picks one.

And I don't think I want to become too knowledgeable, because knowing my proclivity to excess, I could too easily become used to buying lottery tickets. And I know the statistics say one stands a better chance of being hit by lightning than winning the lottery!

A side word to inapickle: Thank you, too. Believe it or not, I am very upbeat about my future. Right now I have a lot of leg and back pain, so my words may not express my optimism as well as I'd like, but I've gone through tough times before and made it through. I can do it again, and will. You can, too.

Fred, sorry about the downturn in your physical condition; I know you'll prevail.

As for the lottery ticket, you are too funny. I hope you don't win though, because if you're like me, you'll spend twice as much as you won within a couple of months "chasing the ghost," lol.

Not withstanding the aching back and legs, have you experienced any sort of sense of relief or finality since the court date? Anything different, or were you already in a certain zone and the court was just a formality?

opt

Thanks, opt.

It's been my experience that one has to go through the dark of night before the light of dawn shines brightly. I'm just hoping it doesn't get any darker.

So, do I buy the lottery ticket, hoping that will be the turnaround, or will that just lead me deeper into the darkness? Oh, the choices...

As for feeling different since the divorce, I'd have to say "not really." I find it's a lot easier to say and write "ex-wife" than "soon-to-be-ex-wife," but either the reality of it hasn't hit yet, or I'm already there. My daughter told me that the court date was merely a formality to the life I've been living for the past six months.

Speaking of my daughter, it seems the ex-wife has "unfriended" her finally from Facebook. Interestingly enough, she has befriended her ex-boyfriend - the guy she tossed out just before we started dating. I guess she's "forgiven" his "disrespectful" behavior and "shabby treatment" of her.

More than likely, she's targeting her next victim ("Hoovering" is the term used by the psychs when talking about borderline behavior), since he's probably an easy mark and her affair with the married guy seems to be coming apart at the seams.

Oh well, better him than me, I guess.

Fred,

I'm a little behind getting to you.

1st, when I referenced you in my post I was am still are concerned about my how I am dealing with the emotions of my D, I really see what your going through as more healthy in the long run.

2nd, Your my idle !! getting thru the D as you have, I seem to treading water not making progress. You had a good plan and stuck to it.

3rd Sure hope your back cooperates and improves soon

Thanks, SC.

A couple of things I learned. They may be helpful to you and others.

1) It's a marathon, not a sprint. Or, put another way, "If you're going through Hell, keep going."

2) Feelings aren't facts. But they are feelings. Accept them. They don't last forever.

3) It WILL get better. The main hindrance to recovery is me.

4) No one has power over the way I feel unless I give it to them. And I can choose to not give anyone that power!

Dr. Paul O. wrote these famous words in his story, repeatedly published in the book, Alcoholics Anonymous:
Those words have provided healing to millions. I am among them. Maybe you can be, too.

Tomorrow would have been our wedding anniversary. Well, I guess it still is, except the divorce was final eleven days ago.

I remembered that I had our wedding album and a collage of pictures that were taken on that day. I had resisted tossing them out, but I think doing it tomorrow will have some symbolic meaning to it. A sense of closure, perhaps.

Originally, I had thought of burning the photos in some sort of ceremony, but now that seems to be an angry gesture. I'm not angry anymore. I hope some day she finds the happiness she's been trying to find her entire life. I don't think she will, but it's not going to be with me. So I think I'm just going to throw them into the trash and be done with them.

Now if only I can do that and resist the temptation to look at them...

My daughter is taking me out for Father's Day dinner tonight. I'll ask her if she thinks there are any pictures (of her, or me) that she thinks I ought to save. If not, I'll just do a wholesale "dump" and shut the lid on the trash and walk away.

Last night after a terrific dinner with my daughter, as we got in my car to head home, she asked me if she could play a song on my car's stereo that she had downloaded to her iPhone. I agreed, and she plugged it in.

The song began with the following lyrics, and a lump came to my throat

The remainder of the song was, shall I say, "less than solemn" and quite humorous, in fact.

I asked her about the song when it was over and she told me, "Here's the irony..." the name of the artist is the same as the name of WW's son. It's NOT a common name!

We both had a good laugh about it.

Today, the wedding album went (un-viewed) into the trash. And it has been taken away. No ceremony, but a sense of closure and finality.

As an aside, my daughter and I talked a lot last night, but not much about WW. At one point I told her I didn't want to talk anymore about her.

I think I'm getting better.

I know that song. That is not a "nice" song!

I continue to be amazed and gratified how things are working in my life. I do believe that God has a plan for me...

Today I received an email from my realtor neighbor. She informed me that friends of hers who live in a townhouse about a mile away have always liked my house, and she told them it might be coming on the market in a year or two. They have a family (two sons) and I have none.

The next is a bit strange...

My neighbor asked if I might be interested in a "house swap." I'm not real clear on the details, but as I understand it, her friends would buy my house and I would buy theirs. They would, of course, pay the difference between the value of my single family home and their townhouse (about $300K).

I rode my bike and took a look at the townhouse. The front reminds me a lot of the townhouse I owned before I bought this place for WW and her kids. Except mine was an end unit, with a lot of windows. My old townhouse also backed up to woods; this has a typical townhouse back yard which backs up to another TH back yard.

The TH is within walking distance of a large regional park (golf course, boat launch, water park, miniature golf) and thus is off main highway traffic.

Right now I'm not jumping at this, but it's interesting that a possible new home that costs about 1/3 what I'm paying for might be possible -- and just a mile away from where I currently reside. I have to give it some thought.

Does anyone know about house swaps? How do they work? What is the upside and what is the downside?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Fred,

I've got several thoughts.

I assume this is the house you and the Ex had together and I would think alot of memories would be in it so to move on would make since to me at some point. I have a neighbor that D and stayed in the house they had together and has since got a new wife and is raising their son there, so it doesn't bother everybody, I just think it would bother me.

As far as a house swap don't see a problem with it if your sure you would be ok with the townhouse, If you like the place I would want to get an appraisal of both places to make sure your getting the money you should.

I haven't done a house swap but I wouldn't think it would be a big deal. a title company handling the closing could sort out the money trail.

I see the up side for you being that you get to reduce your dept load at a time when it would be helpful for you til you sort out that new job, and getting a fresh start on your new life without having to look at the same walls.

Just to complicate my thoughts .....

You need to consider the possibility that the new job my force you to relocate .... no deal on the swap

The economy is showing some movement toward recovery and your house will appreciate but so will the townhouse you just have to figure out which one will appreciate more in the next year or so and consider that in your thought process

The house swap sounds very interesting.
I am certain a real estate agent could help you negotiate a deal.

I like the idea of a swap. Like SC said, it's a great way to dramatically reduce your debt load. May also help with moving forward from the D, getting out of the old family home.

Me, I don't think the house itself will be too much of a trigger. I want to stay there because it's my children's home and I want to be the one to provide that continuity in their lives.

I am looking forward to clearing out all the WW's clutter and keeping a clean, organized house the way I like it. This grand cleaning and moving her out (if it happens) will be quite symbolic and cleansing, I anticipate.

That Long Road to Love song really cracked me up. Just listened to it. Thanks Fred.

It's been over a month since I posted to my own thread. In fact, my visits to MB have dropped off significantly as I've been working to gain employment, address my back/leg problem and generally get my life on track again, since the June divorce.

This evening I was asked to lead a meeting I haven't attended before, and was even given a ride by the group's chairman, who happens to be a local neighbor.

We arrived early and I helped set up. I recognized a few of the people, but it turned into a fairly large meeting, with about 50 people in attendance. I was speaking to an old acquaintance when I heard my name and, glancing to the voice's direction, came eye to eye with OM. I simply turned back to my acquaintance and resumed talking.

After the meeting, I was outside speaking with another person I haven't seen in a while when OM walked past me, tapping me on the shoulder and uttering my name in the process. Again, I ignored him and continued talking.

It's amazing. The man acted as if we were old friends and nothing like sleeping with my wife had ever happened. I have always thought he was a little bereft of his senses, but this almost confirms it.

On the ride home, I told my host of OM's presence, and he told me that he also thought OM "was nuts" (his words).

So, I guess the justice (I don't think this is the Karma Bus) is that my personality disordered ex-wife left me for a psychopath.

No, she wasn't there. I believe their affair is stone cold dead.

OK, back I go to the shadows again for a while. I think I have a job interview coming...

Good Luck with Job interview

Nothing to add but great job on the OM encounter. Perfectly played.

Just wondering ... maybe he was attempting to make an amends. ? Maybe ?
Pretty awkward, if ya ask me.






<~~~ awesome smiley!

Well, the job interview won't happen until late September, at the earliest. So I'm still working to help this startup... get started.

Sorry, Pep, but I think if he were trying to make amends he would have appeared somewhat contrite. No, he was all smiles (and hitting on the women at the meeting). One of the symptoms of a psychopath is a complete lack of conscience.

God Bless you, friend.

Fred, I agree with shtoop. You did well not to get involved in anything the guy was trying to put on you. You let him know in a classy way that you were not interested. period.

Stangely, I had a similar encounter with OM#1 sometime in July. I gave him a look much like one might regard a piece of smelly garbage lying next to the road. I don't know what his intention was in trying to address me "hey, what's up..." but I made it clear I wouldn't be returning greetings of any kind, and he evidently got the point. It's been two months and I have not even seen him in the neighborhood since then.

Anyway, I bet you made your point also. He'll be hunting for someone he can have some sort of sick influence, and that clearly is not Fred in VA.

opt

FWIW Fred, you (and other MB non-drinker friends) continue to inspire my ongoing sobriety. 9 months.

Awesome, opt. I congratulate you!

He is, and he has, Pepperband. Sometimes I don't recognize it right away, but I'm beginning to see clearer.

Fred,

I know you loved your XW . I think you loved her dearly.

It is so difficult to love a person who can't get out of their own way.
As you well know.

The situation in my life today (well, ONE of the situations) is my (and my H) loving a child who is so bull-headed & stubborn, he refuses to ask for "help" unless it is financial assistance. Which, we cannot provide right now.
Not because we can't afford it, but because he has caused us financial harm and he has yet to come clean with us about his behaviors that caused the harm.

We pray for him daily.
We pray for his failure or his success .... whichever God determines is best.

THAT, my friend Fred, was/is the most difficult thing for me. To accept and appreciate and be grateful for our difficulties. I think that is one of the reasons we don't "recognize right away" our multitude of blessings.

Like your sig line says .... Our BIG plans~~> God's amusement.

"Take it easy" Fred.

Your strength is amazing, Pepperband. And you manage to keep your humor and continue to help others despite the troubles in your own life.

I think God has a special place in Heaven for people like you.

I hope this isn't a short story made long.

My daughter told me the other day that she had finally convinced her mom (my first ex-wife) to go see a doctor. Her doctor, in fact.

That now makes all three women in my life seeing the same doctor!

Two reports came out of this:

• DD's mom told the doctor, "Before you ask, I'm #1."
• DD says that the doc told her, "I always thought #2 was a little whacky..."

Before you ask -- I have no plans whatsoever to see the same doctor. That would be asking for just too much!

LOL

How ya doing Fred?

Hi Pepperband! The short answer is, "I'm recovering."

The longer answer is that I have a very full plate of both joys and worries. So much so that I have very little time to moan about the loss of my marriage.

I am grateful that everywhere I've turned I've found loving, caring, supportive people: first here, then in my A.A. groups, later Al-Anon, and now with the church I've joined.

Speaking of which, I guess I've made an impression, because I've been asked to address the congregation Sunday on my experience with the men's small group I've been attending. On top of that, I've been invited to attend an adult men's leadership team meeting tomorrow night. That worries me, for it incorporates four words that I don't fully understand:

• Church
• Adult
• Leadership
• Team

Yikes!

Starting next week I'll be leading a 13-week A.A. Step series. Because I take this seriously, I'll be doing a lot of study and research to prepare.

And finally, the job prospects look like they're about to really materialize! The owner/president of the software company and I will be sitting down together next week to work out my role and responsibilities (and, I hope, how I get paid, how much, etc.).

I still haven't entered the dating world, yet. Of all the issues I'm facing, this one scares me the most. I've made some posts on the After Divorce/Dating forum about this. There is one woman I'd like to ask out -- I just haven't gotten up the nerve to do so. I'm worried about missed opportunities, too (what if she winds up dating someone before I ask?)...

And how are YOU doing? I haven't spent much time on the SAA forum lately, as I find it very painful and a bit of a trigger when I do.

As I said, I'm recovering. I want to move forward, not stay anchored in the past.

Fred,


Good to see you on board, I'm glad to hear your getting plugged in to a church family, I know you'll continue to move forward and as always you continue to make sound decisions to make that happen.

Best of luck with the interview, Would love to know what the results are.

I finally have my settlement mediation mid November

I've heard it said that disordered people always make an attempt to re-insert themselves into one's life. That hasn't happened to me yet, and perhaps it never will.

But this song resonates with me anyway, and I post it in hopes that it might help those who might find themselves in a similar situation:



Lyrics:

Love Dwight!!

I played this CD multiple times when I was busy painting the upstairs one night recently. It gave me strength, not just for an inevitable encounter of this kind with the ex, but in the general sense of being lonely.
I hope being single/lonely doesn't drive me (or any of us) to do something that would compromise our principles.

Thanks Fred!

opt

I just felt the need to post this.

I got a call from my daughter this evening to tell me that XWW had changed her name on Facebook. Not a complete surprise, as I'd already known that she was going by her middle name, but DD said that she'd changed her LAST NAME, too.

Well, DD is also the one who had told me that XWW had shown up in the court records seeking a name change, so not really a surprise there, either.

But I have no idea where she got the idea for the last name she chose. I won't mention it here, but I will say that it is not a family name, a former husband's name, and not even OM's name. She hasn't remarried to my knowledge (although nothing would surprise me about her now), so the only thing that comes to mind is that she's "re-inventing" herself.

Considering the strong possibility that she's a Cluster B personality disorder, it amuses me to think she's "re-inventing" something that she can't even understand: herself.

I tried to gently tell my daughter that I really didn't want to know anything about the current (un)doings of my XWW. My happiness and serenity are far better served by knowing absolutely NOTHING about her.

OK, I'm done venting.

Oh, hey -- in brighter news, I have become a "junior partner" in a software company that seems to be thriving and growing without having put much effort into it! I can only imagine what potential it has after really getting into gear...

Is the new last name Leopard ????????

And congrats on the "junior partner"



Hanging in there

SC

LOL! No, nothing quite so appropriate.

In fact, it occurred to me this morning that it's the same last name as a neighbor down the street. I should probably warn that family, in case they start getting bill collector calls!


Thanks! It's a new way of working for me. No W-2, no weekly paycheck. But an equal split of profits as they are recognized. Truly a faith-based way of making a living, if you ask me. But it's probably what I need right now.

I love your posts. They're always putting a positive spin on a sad situation. Gee, I'd like to be like you when I "grow up"!

Thanks, L2S.

My approach to life is stated in your "handle."

I have been blessed with a lot of good friends, sponsors and counselors who have enabled me to weigh my options and choose to live a "happy, joyous and free" existence, or to keep picking on a scab, never allowing it to heal.

Once I heard a fellow say, "There is no such thing as 'gressing.' You are either progressing or regressing. One cannot simply 'gress.'"

On balance, I think I'm a pretty happy, well-adjusted person. I managed to block out the when I married my XWW and that willful dismissal wound up biting me in the butt. Well, no point in "picking the scab," so I just look forward and take it one day at a time.

And just for the record, since I'm on here writing, I just wanted to say that yesterday I completed my eighth marathon! I may be getting older and slower, but I'm not dead, yet!

Heck yeah, congrats!

Fred, I'm just so happy about these pieces of news for you. I know there have been struggles in the last months but to have persevered in both areas which are obviously very important to you is simply fantastic.

Opt

Just for today... a little bit of "bragging rights."

I remember all the changes my xwh went through, and even though I did not want to be with him any longer, it still affected me for awhile.

GB

Fred_in_VA
A Marine Corps marathon no less. That is impressive. Don't think I could handle that but I am in a six week "boot camp" at the local Y with my DD!!
The XH is away for the weekend - not sure is story is true but it's all good as he would say.
I do find myself happy when he is going out of town. Do not want to resume R but some things do tug at the heart strings. Slowly detaching.
It really does help to read your posts to see how you have managed to close the door and move on with your life. Gives us all hope for the future.
Thanks.

Thanks, L2S. When one door closes, sometimes a window opens.

Shortly after my XWW a-bombed our marriage, I subscribed to a daily email from DivorceCare, a Christian divorce support group. Today brought the following, which I'd like to share with the forum:

I choose #3. How about you?

It's been a while since I posted on this thread.

Just a moment ago, my phone rang. I went to answer it, but the caller had already hung up after two rings.

Caller ID showed that it came from OM.

???

Maybe he's calling to give her back?

I'm kidding Fred - but yeah that was a weird one.

LOL!

No, it was probably just a mis-dial (although I wonder why/how he had MY cell number).

Knowing what I do about him (and her), if anything, he was probably looking to re-connect. Maybe he needs his horns trimmed?

I might have missed something but I would guess it was the Leopard calling from his place. Never know......... she could be calling to say she misses you.

hope I didn't just make you nauseated

LOL!

No, but I must admit that it rattled me a bit. I believe the number is OM's cell phone (I put it in my address book back then so I could look it up when I suspect she was contacting him, and never erased it).

While it could have been her, my belief is that the two of them ended the A even before the D was final. Who knows? Who cares?

The psychiatrist I counseled with did warn me that BPD's always try to reconnect at some later date, which is why I keep my guard up.

You see, Dr. Harley isn't the only one who strongly recommends NO CONTACT.

Thanks for checking in, SC.

I wonder if you can block that number from your phone. That would be an unpleasant trigger for me.

I wished that I could have been born on a planet where waywardness never existed....

Actually, the reason I have kept his (and hers) on my phone is so that if one of them does happen to call, as was the case here, I can see who the caller is before I answer. And then just not pick up the phone.

OK Fred,

Back when my DS was in high school he dated a fatal attraction girl for a short while anyway after they broke up he put "DO NOT ANSWER" for her name in he's cell phone.

We would be together and his phone would ring, and he would show it to me, it would make me laugh......

She was harmless enough and finally stopped calling him.

I actually changed my WW name as well when I 1st started my plan B, although I have since changed it back......don't know why.....

Any way it could provide you some humor

That was pretty good, SC. In fact, the first thing it made me think of was the police recommendation that people include an ICE phone number in their cell phone's address book.

ICE = "In Case of Emergency"

The thinking is that if one is incapacitated due to accident or injury, police and rescue workers can notify the person at the other end of the ICE connection...

This topic is making me chuckle because my caller ID for my ex-WH's number shows up as FT...which stands for the very special nickname my mom gave ex-WH shortly after d-day.

FT= "Festering Turd"

You know... I con't put my finger on it... but there is just something refreshing that goes on these "D" boards.

I hope that what you can't put your finger on is the healing and recovery that people go through -- and express here -- as the pain subsides, the scabs disappear, and the scars fade.

In addition to what Fred said.........

Could it be that most of us here do not care about lovebusting anymore?

I didn't think I'd be writing on this board again - at least not in my own thread. After all, the divorce was 10 months ago. But I may be getting some early warning signs and I thought I'd post about them, just in case I need to be reminded (either by myself - reading this again, or by someone else who has had a similar experience).

For the past week or so, I've been getting a lot of calls from bill collectors looking for the WxW. As has been my practice, I began by simply ignoring them (there is never a live human on the line when you pick up the phone). But in the past couple of days I have been calling back the numbers (it's useless to wait on line for someone to pick up. Annoying, too) and informing the person who answers that no one by The Leopard's name is at this number. I offer no other information.

When The Leopard first moved out, I got a lot of these calls, and handled them much the same way. The calls finally dropped off and I thought they were ended.

That they've resumed tells me that The Leopard has burned through whatever money she may have had and is once again living hand-to-mouth. She is almost certainly on the hunt for new prey to "save her."

The reason I'm posting this is because I've been warned that women like The Leopard ALWAYS circle back and sometimes try to win their way back into one's heart - only to break it again when the heat dies down.

So... it may be over-reactive on my part, but I think it's better to be cautious than to be sorry. By posting here, I find I can have the support that will hold me accountable in the event she does make an appearance. Today, I believe I wouldn't waver. But if it comes down to it, I don't want to take any chances!

Fred, good on you for preparing. And even better on you for asking for help. I've been prepping myself for the "circle back" too.

Hard to imagine how some people can turn out to be so weak.

Dig as deep as you have to. Keep a watchful eye.

Fred, glad you're forewarned about how they circle back so you can guard your heart against it

Fred, if there anything she could do or say that would make you waiver?

If she were to approach you tomorrow, what would you say?

If that were to happen I would simply tell her we have nothing to say to one another and walk away.

Yes, you read that title correctly!

While replying to a friend's post on Facebook yesterday, I noticed that one of this person's friends was none other than The Leopard. Oh, I've known she changed her name, but for the first time in over a year, she's changed her picture.

I'm still at the "able to be triggered" stage, and so several times throughout the day and evening this photo came back to haunt me. I so wanted to get her out of my mind.

Then today (just moments ago, in fact) my phone rang and my caller ID showed it to be one of those "fake" numbers (you know -- "out of area" but showing my area code), so I knew the nature of the call. I answered the phone and held on until a human (with a pronounced Indian accent) responded. After informing the caller that no one by The Leopard's name was at the number, I was told that the number would be removed from their list (yeah, I'll believe that when pigs fly).

But the call had the effect of a cold shower, and reminded me of one of the reasons I am grateful The Leopard has moved on to new prey.

Thank you, bill collectors!

Fred, you can block her on Facebook. It's really, really easy. Go to her profile page and at the bottom of the left column it says "Report/Block this person." Click on it, and it will give you options. You can block her without her ever knowing. If you do, you'll never see her picture on there again. You'll never see comments she makes on other people's walls that are mutual friends. It's like she doesn't exist.

I've done it with my XH. I've also blocked an acquaintance who I believe to have Borderline Personality Disorder because her rantings were upsetting me. She adopted two older children through an international adoption, and I think it was a horrible thing for both her and the children.

Thanks, Kirby. I actually blocked her on Facebook shortly after D-day. I see nothing from what she posts, but have on occasion seen her photo as a friend of a friend.

Given that Facebook changes their security settings often, I should probably revisit them...

It doesn't really matter, though. I saw her today.

I went to a Memorial Day picnic, and shortly after I arrived I saw her there with her son (no daughter, which I thought was interesting) and no OM. At first I thought of leaving, but then thought I had as much right to be there as she did, so I stayed.

For the next couple of hours as I met and spoke with friends, I kept my 'radar' up and made sure I was not anywhere near her. The closest I got at one point had me with my back to her -- while I was talking to Dancing Girl!

She left before I did. I was told by a friend that she gave a big hug to another friend of ours as she left. His comment to the first was, "I'll be she did that for Fred's sake." The reply given was, "I don't think Fred cares."

Fred didn't even notice.

It's not something I want to do often. I took my appetite away and I don't like feeling on guard all the time. Her son has grown in the past 18 months (he's at that 14-15 age) and looked completely bored and uninvolved. Some things never change.

You'll get through this stage, Fred.


YES!!!

Thanks, Daisy.

The angels on my shoulder continue to look out for me.

Whenever something happens to make me wistful for that which was, something else happens to "wake me up" to the current truth.

Usually, it comes in the form of a bill or a collection call.

A few days ago, a bill for almost $1500 arrived for her for some college tuition for which I have no knowledge.

...a year, already?

{Checking calendar}

Yep.

One year ago today my divorce from The Leopard became final.

I think I'll let this anniversary just pass quietly by...

ok....quietly....no one heard a thing....not a peep....

Good job on making it thru one of the toughest year of your life!

Quiet is good.

Shortly after I joined the forums I read most of your thread about divorcing the leopard. I can tell that you're in a much better place, emotionally speaking.

I'm sure that the next year will be even better.

God isn't finished with me, yet.

Last week I had a lot of time to contemplate where my life was going. Attempts to get this software business up and running have been less than stellar, and with my partner's shoulder surgery and subsequent recuperation, I've had a week and then some to pray and meditate.

Alas, my prayers have been answered. As is often the case, the answer isn't the one I wanted. But it was an answer, nonetheless.

My partner sent out an email last night and in essence said, "this isn't working." I knew that. Shortly before receiving the email, I had made the difficult decision to short sell my house and seek some form of income-producing work.

So, apparently God doesn't want me in this house any more. He made it super-easy to purchase when The Leopard and I were together, but it has since become a millstone around my neck and has turned into a money pit. Because I am technically unemployed, I should be able to short sell it without having the bank come after me for the difference, and I will need to spend the next two years with a mediocre credit rating. I can survive that.

A major yard sale to clean out the house and a lot of the detritus of my life, and then try to find a small place to rent with just the basics. I'm a bit of a packrat, so that means a -lot- of stuff to get rid of.

I never thought at this stage of my life I'd have to be starting all over, but I guess that's the way of things.

(((Fred)))

Sorry Fred. I know how you feel....I hope you find a good job soon and enjoy the freedom from having 'stuff' that causes you stress.

(((Fred)))

I'm sorry. I hope that a year from now, you'll look back at this as the beginning of new and better things for you.

If it's any comfort, leaving the marital home was one of the best things I ever did for my mental health. It's really nice to be away from the "scene of the crime" as it were.

I can feel for you Fred, on the house, the packratting ways, the downsizing, the starting over. I had to look up the millstone around the neck part, and all I can say is wow, ok, I just considered my house a prison with no key to get out.

There was indeed a way, and thru the days since then, I've thanked God each day for opening that door for me. My stbxh and his massive debts made the way. We were looking at foreclosure, and ended up giving the house to the bank when we filed bankruptcy to get out from under the debt, which...was the push I needed to get out finally. I was not willing to go back into that financial mess with him ever again.

I don't miss the house, I miss what the house could have been, but not the house it became. It was 2200 square foot with full attic and one car garage full of clutter. From there to a 1000 sq ft apartment full of...clutter. About to downsize to 720 sq ft duplex and the clutter is NOT coming with me this time! I've been slowly packing up, and have two boxes going, and 12 for yardsale/thrift store/dumpster. I think that ratio will continue! I'm not too picky at this point where it goes, as long as it...goes. No guilt hanging over my head anymore.

Sometimes, starting over can be a very good thing. I know it is for me. Going on 20 months since separation. Now if this divorce would just get done, stbxh is making that a mess.

Today would have been my eighth wedding anniversary.

As it is, it is just the first day of Summer.

I think I'll go for a run.

Happy Summer Solstice Fred!

Enjoy your run.

Well, so much for the saying about June weddings:

'Married in month of roses June,
Life will be one long honeymoon'

Happy Summer to you!

Thanks!

These days my running is bookended by

• Searching for a job
• Getting my house prepared to sell

A note to disbelievers: Running CAN be a form of relaxation!

It's hot here.

I had dinner tonight from my favorite Chinese carryout. They know me and so give me an extra fortune cookie every time I order.

As you know, I'm out of work (again) and looking for employment. So I was encouraged by the first cookie's message:

I was brought back down to earth by the second cookie, and was reminded they're only entertainment:

Sigh.

Fred, those are priceless! Don't be discouraged...

Long time ago, I heard something that makes me look at fortune cookies in a whole new light. I was told that to be true, each one had to have three words added to the end.

'in the bed'

Read them again with the three words added!

I'll be sure to keep up with your post in the Divorced/Dating and Relationships forum now!

That is so funny.....my dh does that...he adds 'in bed' to every one he reads outloud (in private) to me. I will have to tell him I know now he didn't come up with the idea on his own.

Hmm, didn't post, lets try this again and watch it double post

Didn't want to t/j the other post so brought your comment over here.


I had to respond to this, with what my stbxh has done that I just found out about last night.

When I left, he swore he was NOT having another CA, (cyber affair) turns out I found out very soon after (few days after moving out) that he was indeed having one. Now I find out, he has some bimbo living with him, and the name kept ringing a bell.

No, not the CA I found out was ongoing for at least four months before I left, when he swore he was NOT doing anything, this is a different one, that I found out about a week later than the other.

Does this make sense? That would make this one, a PA/CA OW who he was cheating with on the OW who he was cheating with while I was still in the house.

So..hmm... a two timing two timing two timer or something like that. Who knows, at this point, it don't really matter how many times he two timed.

Oh yeah, he did not turn in the discovery paperwork he was requested to turn in. What's that saying? Stupid is as stupid does? Thats him.

You know, NSZ, it strikes me that stories like ours abound (Casey Anthony trial, anyone?) but until it happens to us, the realization that there are some very damaged and destructive people in the world seems so remote. It's like watching one of those "reality shows" that just seems so over-the-top -- until we're one of the participants.

For years I have used the line,

because there just aren't any "normal" people walking this earth. There are just those who have good boundaries, moral values, ethics and beliefs. And then there are the others.

It's too bad we can't just hang a sign on those who are toxic ("scarlet letter")...

I remember when I read your quote the first time, oh wow did I laugh at the pure truth in it. That was on a good day needless to say.

The bit about the reality show just hit me, if I were to see my marriage on a reality show played by another couple? I'd NEVER in a million years, would believe a wife could see what was going on right under her nose, and be so stupid depressed as to do nothing to stop it or get out.

As for scarlet letters, I agree, that would make life easier if someone were to brand these toxic time bombs.

How's the downsizing going? It's rough, I have far more yard sale boxes than I have keepers here, and can't remember a think that I put in them! (That's a good sign for me!)

Fred,

I'm sorry to hear the job isn't working out, I am confidant in your ability to recover. You have shown that out many times in your life, and like before, you will rise out of this, God intends for you to have an abundant life and He will bless you.

As ugly as it would be you know you could sale everything and find a way to feed yourself. That worst case scenario is just that and I know you'll be light years away from that.

Have you got the job search in full gear yet????

Thanks for checking up on me, SC. I've been somewhat absent from the board lately, and much of that is due to the preparation to sell the house and the job hunt.

Things appear to be progressing on the job front. I am waiting on two second interviews, and now will be attending an invitation-only career day next week (this means they like my resume and have asked me in to meet and interview).

I'm almost afraid of jinxing myself, after having had so many false starts and dead ends over the past couple of years. But the drought has to end some day...

Selling the house has turned into a bit of a blessing in disguise. I figure that if I can get out of a horrendous monthly mortgage payment, that frees me up to accept work at a lower pay scale than I would need to keep the house, and it also means I'm more flexible in where I can look for work.

The problem I'm having right now is the lack of interest in the house. I have absolutely no one ask for a showing even though I got it "staged" and ready to go. It's only been on the market less than two full weeks, so I'm not ready to hit the panic button yet. But I can't help but be a little impatient...

To keep my head on straight I joined a running training program, and I'm churning out the miles, getting up at ungodly hours in the morning on weekends to churn out 10, 12, 14 miles, or more. The weather has been very hot and humid, so it almost seems like work at times.

I peeked at your thread a while ago. How are you doing mentally, emotionally and spiritually these days?

I have posted a prayer request in the Prayer Requests forum. I hope those who pray will take a moment.

It was twenty years ago today
Sgt. Pepper taught the band to play...

Woohoo!!!

Way to go Fred!!!

Bravo to you, Fredly!

I think that's such a testament to who you are, especially considering what you have been thru over the last couple of years.

I know God will bless your actions

Proud of you !!!!!!

SC

Yay Fred

Congratulations Fred!

Your a shining light that the program works when you work it.

Wheres the party?

nESRE

Congrats to you Fred. You are proof-poitive that it works if you work it!

Seriously though, I have often thought of you maintaining your program through all that you have been through recently. In an odd way, you have helped me with my own program by reminding me that there is nothing a drink can't make worse.

God Bless, and keep coming back...

Thanks, everyone.

While you all weren't with me when I began this journey, you have been a main support beam during this latest chapter of my life, and for that I am grateful!

Many congratulations, Fred. You are an inspiration.

May the peace and serenity of recovery be your constant companions.

God Bless.

PS:

XX looks like a beer advertisement !

When I picked up my medallion I told the group, "This is Dos Equis - the A.A. way!"

(for those of you not "in the know...")

Where's the lime?

A XX year B-Day joke ....

LOL Pepperband on the joke!

Congrats Fred. Keep up the keeping up.

I, silly me, saw XX and thought "risqu� movie?" LOL

Well, I didn't get the job.

I am discouraged and frustrated. This job was so "me," too.

The local grocery store has a sign that says they're hiring. I wonder if an experienced IT guy with an MBA is qualified to bag groceries?

next one

The job at the grocery......never know who you would meet, networking wise as you mingle with the clientale.
It would be a very social job.
It isn't a horrible idea.

IT contracting? MBA consulting?

Fred,

Sorry about the job......

sucks

It will happen and you know it in your heart......

As they say on Galaxy Quest

Never give up Never Surrender !!!!!

Thanks, SC. Yes, it does suck.

What irritates me more than anything else is the non-responsiveness of companies to which I apply.

I haven't even heard from the grocery chain!

I'm now working with three separate recruiters ("headhunters"). Maybe the combined efforts will have better results than my spear-chucking...

It sucks being 50+ as being out of work.
Employer's don't want to hire you, they assume you as being suspect because you are not employed.
Stinks that your willing to accept a $10 hour job and they won't hire you because you are over qualified.
Then with the economy down since 2007 there are too many people looking for work for the few jobs out there.

Need to network. Let everyone you know that you want a job.

Agreed.

I'm working with three headhunters right now. One has a position he's putting me in for. It pays $30K less a year than I was making. It's also a six month contract-to-hire position, which means no benefits, and no assurance of employment after the six months.

But if I'm offered it, what choice do I have?

Fred ,,

I saw on MJ's thread that you are trying to do an eviction.

Unfortunately I have some experience in that area, glad to lend some advise if your interested. The last thing you need right now is a leach. I do know the last thing you want to do is take him to court but it may take that.

Good luck with the head hunters.

SC

Thanks, SC.

I met with a lawyer and found out what I need to do to evict this reprobate. It's going to cost me $62 and some travel time (plus a court hearing, perhaps), but I can get it done.

This lousy economy drives me nuts! It shouldn't be this hard to find work. Last night I applied for a part-time job at my local running store. I'm still waiting to hear a response from that -- and I even know the owners!

She has a way of showing up at the most interesting times...

I took the chairmanship of my Friday night group last month. Then, last week, the speaker finder emailed me saying she had a conflict and could I introduce the speakers for last Friday's meeting. Of course, I replied.

Arriving early, I began setting up the chairs and getting the necessary supplies. One of my friends had insisted on baking a cake to celebrate my 20th sobriety anniversary, so I knew plates, forks, napkins, etc. were needed. No sooner had I finished setting up chairs, in walks The Leopard.

Much to my surprise, as she was saying hello to mutual friends, she held out her hand as she was passing me, and said, "Hello."

Not wanting to cause a scene, I shook her hand and simply replied, "Hello."

I performed the master of ceremonies duties, and just as announcements were ending, my cake baking friend announced that in honor of my 20th, there was cake for all.

There was no further contact during the meeting, and as I was leaving (carrying extra cake) I spied The Leopard walking - alone - across the parking lot. As I had been the first one to arrive, my car was parked close by, and I simply got in and drove off.

Last night, at a 60th birthday party for a friend, several of those in attendance Friday were there, and I was told how well I handled things. One of them told me that The Leopard had told her that she had no idea I was celebrating my 20th (which in truth, I was not - it was just a cake).

Still, the sight of her still evokes some feelings, and sleep that night was restless, to say the least. Maybe it was the prospect of a 20 mile run in the morning (which I completed) but I found myself waking several times with strange ideas, thoughts and dreams.

But I slept much sounder last night. A 20 mile run will do that, I guess. But I think it also shows how far I've come. And while there are still lingering emotional reactions, they are becoming less and shorter.

Tomorrow I have an interview for a part-time position at the running store! Far from the ideal job, but if I get it, I think it will be fun to work with other people who enjoy running, put a little money into the pocket, and give me back some of my sense of worth.

Yay 20 mile run and an interview
The leopard ? I hope she is not gonna come to your group, and cause you to have to move
But it might be nessesary
Please be careful Fred this is your sobriety and she is toxic

Repeat after me

I have no power over the effects of the leopard and cannot control it

You know what I mean

God bless brother

Thanks, CP. I have no worries about The Leopard "moving in" on the group. It's too much of a drive for her, there are too many people there who would call her on her stuff, and besides, she's more of a "hit and run" type.

Yes, she most certainly is toxic. I won't get burned that way again.

I just had a vision of this somewhat attractive damsel in distress, dressed like laurel Bacall, walking through the parking lot, and pulling a Bogart

God help us fans of Marshall Dillon and KISA types

"The night was sultry"

I think I read Mickey Spillane at to young an age. Funny he must be important my iPhone automatically capatized his last name

Or is it the capital of egypt? Holy phone batman, it missed Egypt

Have a great interview

LOL! And Denial isn't the name of a river in Egypt, either!

In slightly better news, I think I've been hired on as a part-time employee at the local running store! I'm just waiting to receive the "offer letter" (can you believe it? That's actually what I was told!). When asked about my availability, I pretty much said as much as you wanted.

The pay may not be great, but I'm told the employee discounts are some of the best. And since I run...

Yay

Just checking in on you Fred,

So hows the job?????
I know it's good thing that your working even if it's not ideal, and I know you'll have a better job coming your way.

SC

Hi SC, thanks for asking.

The people are great, the job is fun (not very challenging) and the pay sucks. But it beats not working.

In fifteen minutes I'm going to have the second interview of the day with a major IT company! I got a call this morning and spent a good hour speaking with a manager. This next call is more with a potential "peer" if the opportunity goes forward.

This is happening very fast. I'm quite surprised, given how slowly everything else has gone thus far.

And how are YOU? What's new in the SC world?

Fred,
I just think that there is an intangible quality that you bring to an interview when you walk into it with a job rather than unemployed, I think it effects the dynamics to your advantage.

So if my theory holds water you'll have a job offer soon.....

I put my update on my thread, thanks for asking

I certainly agree with this, SC. Sadly, I don't consider my part-time job in the same vein as a real job, and since it's in a different field than my chosen career, doesn't give me any "juice" in the job negotiating field.

One can only hope, SC. One can only hope.

It does add some juice. Taste is based on assumption


Out of juice: Out of work must be unemployed's fault if they were good they wouldn't of been let go.


Juice from concentrate: Working at something says at least he is keeping that job, wants to work.


Fresh squeezed: Working in a position in one's field, equal to their experience and education one must be good.


However age effects the perceived taste: If one is 50 and up employers look at one as past their sell by due date.

Right on Road,

I don't think it's possible to threadjack one's own thread, so I'm taking this opportunity to go off topic for a moment to send a shout out to Pepperband, who's been quiet for a long time.

It's good to see you back, lady. I hope everything is well. You've been missed.

Hiya Fred.

I was ill.

Mr Pep finally forced me into the car and drove me to the ER.
"You haven't moved in 3 hours. Get in the car."

I was admitted Sept 12, and released Sept 23.

When I was discharged, it was with a PICC line (Google) to self administer IV treatment for another 2 weeks. It was a pleasure to have the PICC removed.

Now, I am on another 3 weeks of the oral form of that same medication. There are certain risks to this medication, and for that I am getting blood drawn twice weekly.

It is what it is.
I am following orders.
I am in good hands, medically.

I won't make it into a medical journal, but one specialist said:
"I've read about this, but I have never seen it before."

The other specialist (infectious diseases) said:
"There have been no studies done to demonstrate how long to treat this.
We will play it by ear."

OKEY-DOKEY.

The good news is that I am doing very well.
Still a bit low on energy. But that is starting to pick up.

Thanks for thinking of me.

I missed you too Shmoopie..

Seriuosly though I noticed your absence, and am glad to have you back.

Thanks, CP.

Tell Mr. Pep thank you for us, would you?

Glad you're back.

-hugs to Pep-

Hi guys and gals! I thought I'd pop up a short post to just update my MB friends on things. I read here as time permits, but my posting frequency has gone down dramatically. For the most part, the reasons for all this are good!

First: I HAVE A JOB!!! My official start date is tomorrow, but I've been going through the process of filling out my employment forms, verifying my right to work, etc. It's been a rough and slow slog, but the bright light has finally come shining. The pay is even more than I'd asked, the company pays 100% of the health care expenses, and they've even granted my stock options that will vest over the next four years. The people have been terrific, kind and supportive. I'm really looking forward to being a productive member of society again!

Second: I may be near selling my house. I had an offer, but the bank delayed too long; the offer was withdrawn two days before the bank decided to accept it. But the price has come down and my agent thinks another offer may be coming soon.

Third: To keep myself from going crazy, I have been working a part-time job that I really enjoy. I'm going to try to continue working this gig on weekends and some evenings, if they'll let me. So far, this has gotten a thumbs up.

So, my life is full and busy right now. My new career job is going to have me traveling cross country three times at least over the next three months. I haven't met anyone new, but then again, I haven't been trying. And now, with all the hours I'm putting in to work, it's not likely to happen. There are times I'd like to have some companionship, but as I've posted before here and in the other forum (After Divorce: Dating and Relationships) I'm not real good at this sort of thing, so trying to force it to happen is bound to come to no good.

So there you have it, friends. Things are looking up in almost every aspect of my life. I'm working, I'll soon be able to address some of the running issues I've had (but I did finish my ninth marathon last week), and I may be finding myself in new digs in the near future. I haven't been ignoring you, and do read your posts/threads during my "quiet times." There just haven't been as many of them lately.

Hooray!!

I'm so glad things are looking up for you!!

And congratulations on your 9th marathon!

Yay Fred,

God is faithful huh?

Good to hear it Fred!! Thanks for sharing the good news (in word and deed).
~opt

Hi Fred and congratulations on your good news and on going recovery. I was wondering from this post if you are short selling your house? I'm in the same boat as far as the house. Its the only thing keeping me here and living in the past (too many memories).

FRED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CONGRATULATIONS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND THE HOUSE TOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THAT'S GREAT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WAHOO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was never a doubt in my mind that you would rise thru this............ Next is the lady that God has for you waiting out there, now you've just got to go find her.

All in good time my young padawan, all in good time.

Congrats Fred!!!

All good things will come, to those who work hard!!!!

Uh, no, SC. Not that.

Thanks for your upbeat and warm congratulations, but on this last note I have to defer.

I've been reading the biography of Steve Jobs (it was the least I could do on my new iPad) and something folk singer Joan Baez said resonated with me (Jobs dated Baez for a short while):

I kind of feel like that. I am now too busy to think about dating or entering yet another relationship. I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but at this juncture, I'm not going to do anything to try to make it happen.

Hey brother, after two failed marriages, the first one cuz I was to young and did not know what it would take, and the second one....well still figuring that out really, I am of the same mindset.

But we have children,(You have a DD right?), and we have God also, and our commitment to our children, to keep us busy loving them and giving them all we can, while we can.


Yes, we might, at least I might, get to a place where all those details are worked out, and I find someone to be a partner again in lifes challanges that I will need as a helpmeet, but at this time, God has given me enough to supply what I need to do.

Keep fighting the good fight Fred, and remain open to possibities, but by all means, don't let anyone pressure you. Lol, I swear that is how I got in trouble in the first place..