Been lurking on the SSA side for a while and since I filed for D I knew it was time for the move.......

I know most of you don't know my story..... same song different verse ....except I get to throw in the WW's move from devoted Sunday school teacher to atheist and besides the 2 OM under her belt in the last 3 years she had a OW as well.......

So why has it taken me this long to get here ?????????

Am I really that stupid ??????????


Did really like her hair that much ??????????

And why do I believe there is a chance we'll be able to split assets amicably.......I told her a couple of days ago what I was willing to give.......today she responded she wanted half.......

HALF !!!!!!!!!!!!!that's right the woman that has spent the last 3 years in an affair wants HALF and best of all isn't embarrassed at all asking for it.......

I'm in an equatable distribution state.... the judge can find in my favor...... the real question is if the evidence I have is admissible..... I have video and a full inch of e-mails and skype shots that if I can use will get my point across in seconds ........ but there getting dated .....form 08 to 09 time frame........ I plan to take what I have into my lawyer to see if I can use it....

I think I'll be ahead dollars if I can stick to the uncontested route......One of my biggest problems is I'm soooooooooooooo done with this that I just want to walk away.......

The one thing I just can't stand the thought of is her getting her hands on my monthly retirement benefit.....would rather give all my 401K up before I have to share that monthly retirement.... There is just something about having to continue to pay her that kills me..........

I so want a clean brake.........

And so the next burning question for me is should I change my name from "stillcommitted" to "soonavailable" .....I'll have to work on that some more.........

Just a quick response to your last point:

Nothing wrong with being still committed (stillcommitted). It's just that you will change the focus of your commitment.

Sorry you have to be here. Welcome to the club. From one who married a very disordered woman to another.

I don't know - if he were still committed, it would be to that little psychiatric place with the padded room and strait jacket.

Still, think very carefully before trading money which is essentially under your control, your 401K, for a pension. Pensions in many, many areas are woefully underfunded, and may not be able to deliver in 5, 10 or 15 years' time. What would you rather have, money now or the promise of money?

I can't offer you money advice; more than five dollars boggles my mind. But I wish you the best of luck in getting things settled in your favor.

SC, I remember reading your thread in the beginning. I lost track of it - didn't know you now had an atheist/ww. That's sad.

Let your lawyer work his/her magic. You probably have a lot of emotions that could cloud your judgement.

Good luck. Stay committed.

~opt

KA....loved the strait jacket reference....guess I'll stick with my name for now........

Greengables....... I am so hung up on not wanting her fingers in that side of my retirement......the thought that 20 years from now that I will still see a chunk of my retirement being sent to her kills me........

I know logically that what you suggest makes since..... the defined benefit I have after the bankruptcy is now worth 5k a month....

If I have to give her Half I'll have to sale our farm to make it happen.........

May not be all bad because of land values now and if we liquidate everything it may not net what she expects and I could re-buy the farm with my side of things


So Appreciate everyone's thoughts

Very good advice - in some cases a 401K is better, in others, a pension is better. If there are a lot of assets on the table, you might want to consult with a divorce financial planner. They can give you an idea whether your pension that will pay you X amount in 15 years is worth more than the future value of your 401K.

I went to a seminar given by one about a year ago - lawyers and judges aren't always the best people to figure out what an asset will be worth in the future. They are mainly concerned about where the parties stand at the present.

Excellent suggestion, PSU. I didn't know they had divorce financieal planners.

Still, right now you are all tied up in emotional knots. Those will go away with time, BUT the property settlement will be a fait accompli, and you will have to live with it for the rest of her life or yours. So, follow the logic and advice of skilled professionals.

If you decide to make an emotional decision, do it with a price tag. "I'm willing to pay her $XXX,XXX now so that I never have to speak to her again."

Ok guys......

I've got the WW working on her settlement statement ....

1st is how much in cash it will take for her to walk away, she will baseing it on what we think your assets are worth.....

2nd is her plan of how I could keep the farm and pay her what she wants..... This may include creative ways to share equity in the property til I can pay her off ...........

3rd I will call my tax accountant ..... And my Ed Jones guy and talk over the retirement side of this mess........

3 years ago my company went bankrupt and my union pushed hard to retain our pension...... We did but it's only 35% of what I would have had but to the best of my knowledge it's well funded.... I think that the company had to fully fund it to cover the reduced payoff and it's locked now......

There's alot of "I think" in what I have said..... I plan to talk to some of buddies that know more about the plan and it's funding level....


I've got 3 buddies in town working on what the farm would bring at auction..... the WW and I when we talked over our assets the other day may have over estimated what the assets are currently worth

Our house is trashed after raising our kids in it ....it needs paint,carpet ect.......


My plan til you talk me out of it is

A. get the WW to sign a division of assets agreement based on liquidation of all assets.... pay the dept off..... split the money 50/50......give her 50% of the 401k

B. not lift a finger to improve the property before the sale

C. Hope that the assets sale low and I will be in a position to re-buy the farm.....

D. In the next 2 years rehab my house and subdivide the farm then resale it all for twice what I bought it for.....our farm is right on the edge of our town and has great potential for appreciation.........

Thanks for keeping me on track.........

I wouldn't count on being able to sellit for twice what you pay within 2 years. That would be a 50% appreaciation each year.

Also, there is no way in heck I would do anything creative with regard to finances with a STBX.

Green....
your right I won't double my money but I could make some change.....

And I have no interest in creative financing either .....

Dropped off some of my war chest...e-mails and video with the lawyer to look at to see if I can use it in court......

My appraiser buddy says the farm is worth about half what we were guessing......

Been thinking if I can get the WW to agree on a percentage in writing before the sale then I could be ahead dollars compared to what I was offering......

This week I'm leaning toward going low dollar mode after the D....

By that I mean finding a cheap place to live and banking all I can for a few years......

Been thinking of Rich Dad, Poor Dad....... I liked that book alot...

I know what you mean. If there's a benefit to The Leopard's sabotaging our marriage, it's that it forced me into taking a long look and an active part in managing my retirement funds.

I found money and accounts that I've had for years and done nothing with. At my age, I find I'm playing catch-up, with retirement possibly just another decade ahead. I'm nearing the $200K amount, and with today's prices, that would only give me less than ten years of living on a shoestring.

BTW

the WW has said she would like use to tell others that the reason were getting divorced is "personnel and that we prefer not to discuss it"....... she says she has seen so many other couples get into HE said SHE said and how destructive that is for everybody .......


Thoughts..... bet I know what they are.......

Since you're dialing down your lifestyle, read "Secrets of the Millionaire Mind"

Fred...

I've never had an interest in my retirement accounts either.....the rumor I've been told is that if it is invested in a good mutual fund it should double every 7 years ......mine never has.....although before the market went south I was close........

In theory if you didn't put another dime in you'd have 400k in 10 years and could draw 30k out a year with out hitting principle....I bet without the Leopard bleeding you dry you could bank some cash fast.....except for that unemployment issue......And on that You strike me as a guy that will land on your feet running....... I hope this new phase of your life is prosperous and exciting....... have you picked a job yet???


KaylaA....

I'll put that on my read list.......


Thanks for the inputs....It helps me to be as distracted as I can..... some days are better than others....

SC, you're in the heart of Dave Ramsey country. Find his radio show. It will help you stay motivated as you "live like no one else, so later you can live like no one else."

As for telling people "It's personal and we prefer not to discuss it," you're getting divorced! She can decide what she tells people, and guess what? You get to decide what you tell people. I can't believe she even has the nerve to suggest such a thing.

That said, it always best to speak respectfully of your ex and to give information to people based on the type of relationship you have. Very close friends and family get the whole story. Future romantic partners may eventually hear the whole story. Your dentist probably won't.

I'd add that if you're going to be bluntly honest about your spouses contribution to the divorce, you need to be just as bluntly honest about your own. And still avoid DJs.

Green,

Funny you should mention Dave Ramsey......

Not only have I been listening to him since before he went national but my WW took his financial planner course so she could help others in need in our church and community ......

Of course that was before aliens invaded her body..........

As far as exposure to others I feel like by keeping quite that the WW may be more cooperative in the settlement process but I feel like I'm selling my soul to the devil to do it......

dkd,

My problem is I still see myself as the injured one that after being faithful for 27 years, and being a devoted husband and father (WW says I'm perfect for what that's worth) I have trouble laying much blame on myself...... was I gone alot ???.... yes
did I meet all her EL's?????? obviously not(she had an affair)...... Did I do everything humanly possible to restore my marriage???? YES (My friends say so too)......

I want to vindicate myself and not stand silent while she says "it's private" ......

I know in the end it will all come out and that her true colors show thru........I just don't want to wait


As always thanks for reading....

SC

I don't have any financial advice to give. Our pension is going through changes right now and it is best left to the pros.

Just wanted to jump over here a bit and look around. I myself may not be far behind you.

I would also carefully use A info on a need to know basis at this point. The closer in friends and family-all of it-others based on the closness of your relationship with them.

I'll try to keep up on your thread. I may not comment much since this side is a bit foreign to me at the moment. Hope you'll check in on us from time to time.


Nesre

nesre,

Always good to here from you..... I'll post on your thread latter.....

Talked to my lawyer yesterday......


Good news the video I have is admissible....... she says I can probably avoid having to pay alimony because of it......

Bad news is WW sill is entitled to half of everything we have in spite of her behavior.........

Been thinking about my pension....the monthly benefit should be a max of $6000 month..... I'm about 10 years from retiring so I figure the max I should give to have it intact is no more than 150k..... that should be worth 300k by the time I retire and would produce about 30k a year in interest which would ruffly equal what the annual pension pay out would be


appreciate your thoughts ......

Had a bad day yesterday..... Had talked to the WW and she is maintaining that she wants 50% plus alimony ...... My lawyer says I probably can win on the alimony side but it will cost $$$$$$ to fight it while I pay for both lawyers ......

The other side of that is as we spend it on the lawyers then that is less that the WW will end up with....(me as well )

I can't understand how she can sit there with a straight face and and demand all that ..... She has no shame.......

Doing better today I know I have to take it one day at a time....

Read on one of the threads to always plan on the worst case scenario and when it works out better than that your pleasantly surprised .....my motto for today........

You should sell it to me... for little of nothing... wait a couple years, then I will sell it back. heh... kind of like those women who get a note form the husband saying 'sell my stuff and send me the money' so they sell the Mercedes for $500 to a college kid.

Her lawyer's job is to get her whatever he can. He advises, she accepts the advice. That is it, just think of it like business. There are few people in the world, and MUCH FEWER WSs who will give up a penny of money, deserved or not. It is just the way it is, and you shouldn't beat yourself up about it.

Expect the worst at every turn. That way when it happens, you won't be surprised. When it doesn't... you will realized you have been blessed.

This advice was given to me by my IC during my first divorce. I took it and it REALLY did make things better. She also basically told me I should NOT marry my second wife. Should have listened to her more than once........

Can't,

I guess it was on your thread I read that statement ...... It's a good one and I'll do my best to take it to heart.....

I do find my self beating myself up over the money........ I know it's the way it is but ...IT ISN'T FAIR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOT BY A LONG SHOT !!!!!!!!!!!!

feel a little better.....

still

Just so you guys know there is even more going on in my life besides the D....

Last summer my next older (never married) brother was diagnosed with a CNS lymphoma (brain tumor) I brought him to my house while he was treated with CEMO then Radiation , He just finished the last round of radiation a few days ago......

Doctors feel we will have a window of relative good health starting now......

So the plan is that all 4 brothers (no sisters) are going on a road trip to Yellowstone for a couple of weeks . We're driving to Denver on Monday and picking up and RV to hang in for the next 2 weeks.....

I have no doubt that it will distract my from my current situation nicely for a while.......


We're planing to go as far north and Great Falls and as far west as the Lochsl river outside Missoula....

I'm wide open to any ideas on cool things to do......

My brother has traveled the world and hiked the Appalachian Trail from Georgia to Maine but hasn't been to Yellowstone...

I know we'll have a great time......

You are going to love Yellowstone, spend more time than you think you should there - it's never-ending. Sounds like such a great trip. Enjoy every second, SC.

opt

Day 6 of the Epic road trip to Yellowstone with my 3 brothers......

been in the park for 3 days now so far we have seen...4
3 Grizzly
1 Black Bear
1 Otter
1 Bald Eagle
4 marmots
Hundreds of Buffalo (Bison)
bunches of Elk
bunches of Pronghorns
bunches of Mule deer
2 Wolfs

and the list grows.... My sick brother is doing quite well and it has been a wonderful trip so far......

That's awesome SC. I knew it would be a great trip.
What about Old Faithful? You're planning to go over to that area right? It's quite a site also with all the geysers.

Thanks for posting up. Now get back to snapping pictures.

opt

Just got back last night from the epic Yellowstone road trip. My sick brother, in spite of getting a cold, had a great time. I lost count of all the animals we saw, It is the caving season for the buffalo the new ones were dropping everyday. The Grizzles were bringing their cubs out as well.

I think it snowed everyday we were in the park !!! and not all the roads were open because of it but it made it a magical place. My favorite area was the Lamar valley, that was where we saw the most of wildlife. Got a picture of a wolf guarding a kill site, that was really neat, have decided I would not want to be in a tent in the back country and here one of those guys start howling!!!!!

I left my sick brother at my oldest brother's house where he will live for the next couple of months, he gets an MRI in mid July and then we'll have to adjust his care....... hopefully he'll be in remission and could go back to his house.

As for me I was glad to decompress with my brothers it's been a rough couple of years for me with the 1st D date over 3 years ago, brothers cancer, loss of my mother if February, and now moving to plan-D with the WW.

Went out to dinner with the WW and we talked some more about the division of assets. I think were a long way from an agreement and feel progress is slow. Her lawyer likes the meditation process and has encouraged the WW to pursue it if we can't reach an agreement. "SO the beat goes on " It's hard to be patient(sp) and wait for the process to work.

By the way she said tonight that she doesn't want a divorce just needs to have an open relationship so she can feel free to pursue whatever interests she has.....


And Opt for the record I took over 500 pictures and drove about 6000 miles without a ticket, and only one warning in Texas(close one)

Opt,

Thanks for you input on your thread, I continue to struggle with the aspects of the whole process, there are a few things that I worry over.

One is as I read other threads like Fred's a recurring theme seems to be a great degree of pain over the loss of their marriage, over anniversary dates ect. Were I stand to day I can't wait to be out of the misery I'm in, to be free of the deceit, to get my life back, to not have to worry over the contact my WW continues to have with the POSOM or what other relationship she may choose to engage in.

I'm scared that I'm in a fantasy land and will have my world crash in around me once it's over.

Another thing I worry over is the Holier than thou attitude I have over the WW affairs, I see myself as a near perfect husband, always faithful, attentive, responsive to her needs, devoted father, blah blah blah.

The obvious question is if I'm so perfect then why is my wife cheating on me??????

Back after the 1st exposure we got into counseling and several issues she had were brought up, and I did my best to accommodate those needs. Those being our lack of a sexual connection, and the church we were attending.

We talked thru the sex part and stopped going to the church we raised our kids in, and as she moved towards atheism I gave her as much space as I could.

I'm so convinced in my head that I'll be so much happier free from this marriage.


OK, the next thing is, as weird as it is we get along great, there isn't any fighting, we still sleep in the same bed when I'm home, go on bike rides together, go out to eat and have a good time,

The WW and I don't talk much about her atheism which is her favorite subject these days.

So I have a problem with the fact that I still enjoy her company as much as I do and I know I'll miss her terribly once were finally apart, but I just don,t think it will be that bad, I see it as a huge improvement over where I am now, that I can seek out a new relationship (they are all ready sniffing around) and I like the idea of being in a NORMAL RELATIONSHIP,


Another thing like you Opt, my WW wants to maintain a relationship with me and to go vacations with the kids together. I don't have a problem with some of that either but I'm not in a relationship and I'm sure I'll boundary issues with that later. Wondering if that's normal????

I've been gone from home most of May with my brother's Yellowstone trip then off on a work trip. I have planned to go on a week long bike ride as soon as I get home from my work trip which will give me some more space, but all that time away doesn't move us closer to an agreement. The last time I was home we agreed for the WW to set up an appraisal of the property, I hope she's done that but I haven't ask her and have been avoiding calling her more than necessary.

Not quite sure where I'm going with all of this other than wanting to know I you guys see any red flags in all this.

Everyone's different SC. I'm not really having the same kind of hard time that Fred seems to be with the emotional side of it. I'm sure Fred's adjusting to a lot of things that are giving me trouble as well.
If you're sleeping in the same bed and riding bikes together, I have to imagine her $LB is relatively high (except that she LB's by continuing her relationship with another man); so you will probably have some void to fill when it comes to recreational companionship. Unless you plan to continue that after your D.

SCom, you know better than this. Have you forgotten basic concepts, or have you not read enough from this site. Dr. Harley says we are ALL prone to A's. "Given the right circumstances, we would all cheat; and given the right circumstances, none of us would cheat." (paraphrased). You're not perfect :), but none of that has to do with your WW's affair.

You realize you're letting her have her Half Marriage, right? Is that the kind of M you want, SC? I'm not judging you if you do, it's just not MB. A lot of people out there do much crazier things than that.


I've been thinking about my anticipation of a "normal" relationship, and realistically there probably isn't one. Women we date are going to have baggage like us. But having a relationship where both are committed to each other isn't too much to expect. You definitely don't have that now.


SC, your kids are grown. You did well to provide them a good home and show them what a loving relationship looks like through the years that kids form their ideas about such things. You did your job. You can stay in this marriage and not have all of your needs met (maybe having some is okay with you), or you can get out and seek another, or you can Plan B and hope your WW wakes up to a new day and allows you to start a new marriage with her - one like you never knew even in the good times. I don't see any other choices for you. Maybe I'm missing something.


For the record: I have no intention of vacationing with my WW. She wouldn't feel comfortable sun-bathing next to the 20-something I'm going to be dating.

Opt

Hi SC

I may be over-simplifying the situation, but I recommend that you make moves to "move forward" to the next chapter in your life. It doesn't seem (from what you've told us) that your wife has any intention in the near future to give you what you need out of a marriage. In fact, she appears to be in a selfish phase right now---esp. considering that she has asked you for an "open marriage" in the midst of everything she's put you through recently.

You still have many years of your life left to find happiness. I might guess that there are things that you have always wanted to do, but never had the time being married with children. Well --- now is the time. You have raised your kids and soon you may be a single man. Think of this divorce from a new perspective, an opportunity to get out of a stressful, unhappy situation and move on to new beginnings.

Sure, it gets lonely sometimes---but you get used to it. The best cure for loneliness for me has been spending time with my son. And you are lucky to have 4 children to enjoy! I would suggest making some one-on-one plans with each of them. Or maybe visit some other friends and family that you have not seen in some time. Rechannel you energy to such relationships that have positive returns. You will feel so much better.

That's my advice. Best Wishes.

Opt & SC, there is a new update on my thread. Since I read yours first, I'll address some of the observations you've made.

It seems I can't hardly get on my feet these days without something else happening........

After I got back from my last work trip I signed up to go on BRAG that's "Bike ride across Georgia" on Wednesday night of that trip, I got a frantic call from one of my DD's telling me that her twin sister's long time boyfriend had killed himself.

My DD started dating this young man in 10th grade of high school. She went on a National student exchange this past year for her sophomore year of college and they had agreed to put their relationship on hold for this past year. They had seen each other only once since she had returned and she had made an effort to reconnect with him.

He was not very responsive and had had a bad semester at school.


I had bought a college house for when my kids were going to be at UT, ( Older DS and the 2 DD's ) anyway none of my kids were there this past year because of exchanges so the DD's boyfriend and 3 other buddies of his used the house this past year.

My DD had called the boyfriend to ask him to come over Tuesday afternoon to hang out but he told her he had driven back to school, When he stopped answering his cell phone one of the roommates had a mutual friend go over Wednesday evening to check on him and found him in the back yard.

After I got the word I called the parents and as I had feared they had not heard yet, and I had to tell these wonderful people that they had lost their son................

He was such a fine young man and I had been hoping that my DD and he would reconnect. I looked forward to them getting married. He had been an integral part of our family for years, had gone on several vacations with us. I loved that boy..................

It's just so so sad that we couldn't save him he had so many people that loved him and were trying to reach out to him over these past months. He had not given any sign that he was suicidal, no one close to him saw it coming.

I got to do another fun thing, after talking to the boy's parents I drove up to the college house to get there ahead of them. Was glad I was able to do that as the rope he had used was still up in the tree..... And I stayed with them while they collected some of his belongings.

As your kids get older and they develop relationships you become invested in these other kids lives, this boy was truly a part of our family. I know it's not the same as loosing one of my own but I am grieving his loss much worse than when I lost my mother (90) earlier this year. I see his loss of potential, he had so much going for him, personality, hardworking, integrity,passion for life, he had everything he needed to be successful. All I have been thinking is what a waste, I'm mad at him for not reaching out even a little, I mad for not seeing it myself, I can't help but feel I have just lost the son-in-law I was suppose to have...........

As you can imagine my DD will be affected for the rest of her life by this, I know she'll recover but the pain she is in now is overwhelming. I am so sorry for her, I am so sorry for my friends that lost their son,

Never thought this nightmare of the past 3 years could be any worse but it has...........

For now I depend on God's grace to see me thru, I have great friends to depend on but it doesn't take the pain away..............

It has helped telling you this, just nice to get some of it off my chest...............

It is so sad words I know can't convey it, I miss him

I am so sorry for your loss, SC. And make no mistake about it. He may not have been your son, but it's still a loss for you.
In the midst of everything else, I can't even imagine it.

I've heard God only gives us what we can handle. You must have some pretty broad shoulders my friend.

Opt

I drove over to the college house today, couldn't stand the thought of that tree still standing in the back yard, so I took my chainsaw and had some therapy..........

Was another tough day, I seem to be grieving more each day. I guess I was more attached to that boy than I ever realized.

While I was at the house I had to move his car and when I was in it I found his last note, his dad had looked in the car on Thursday but had missed it. I called them and read the note over the phone to them, took me awhile to get it out. Then I stopped by their house on the way home and left it with them.

My WW and DD are both going to speak at the funeral on Tuesday, the WW read me what she plans to say and it's beautiful. That is one thing she does well is write and speak.

Next few days will be long ones,

Like anything else I just have to get thru the next little bit, not the whole thing, and as bad as I feel right now it's way worse for my DD and the parents of that fine young man.

Well it's about time for an update....

Usually when a young person dies the funeral is massive and this one was. The family is highly respected in our community, parents very active in their church (as was their son), and community. The outpouring of support was amazing. My DD and WW did a wonderful job speaking and held up well.

I was proud of the father who was able to speak about his son, I can't imagine being able to hold myself together enough to do that, the whole service was beautiful.

As for me I'm much better today, and continue to recover. After the funeral the family went back to my college house and cleaned out the rest of their son's belongings, I then spent the rest of father's day weekend getting the house ready to sale. Sad but went well enough.

I had a pretty weak moment that week and wanted to tell the WW she could have it all if she would just let me go. I call my best friend and finally promised him I would keep my mouth shut for at least a week and see how I feel.

It was great advise and I have alot more fight in me now, we finally got an appraisal on our farm started, the guy came out this past Thursday, should have the results in a week or so. Then the negotiations begin again.

I glad I didn't "give the farm away" in a weak moment but it is a sign that I'm on the edge and probably stayed in my attempted recovery to long, I should have more fight in me to see this part thru.......

I scored a sweet work trip that has several days in Hawaii, and I have the DD's and my DS coming out to join me, without the WW, (she wanted to come, said she hoped that we would continue to do family trips together but understood that wanted to do it this way) I'm liking that and hope it all comes together and the kids and I have a better than a great time..... I have no illusions that the WW will see the light and rethink her position, still hold that hope that the nightmare would be over that the WW would see what her actions are doing to our family and marriage,

I know in my heart that all that can be done to save the marriage has been done and short of a miracle by God that it won't change .

In 2/10 it looks like there had been NC for many months (Plan B letter thread). Maybe this is bad form, but could you give an ever so brief synopsis since then?

...miracles do happen.

opt

SC,

Just read this thread and I'm sorry for all you've been through in the last year or so.

But, hearing you talk about the funeral and how strong your family was should make you feel a little better that everything will work out going forward without the WW.

Definitely keep up the fight for what is fair. You can come out of this with a broken heart and enough assets to land on your feet, or you can come out of the with a broken heart and taken to the cleaners. The latter is no good for yourself or your children.

Schtoop,

Thanks for the kind words, Still just happy to take it one day at the time and trying to stick to my plan..... Sure hope to finally have some real progress towards a settlement later this month but at the rate thing are going I realistically think it will be in the months to come.

Opt.

In Feb of this of this year I thought I had NC in place, the WW got a new MAC and I was unable to get the password covertly for a while in the mean time one of my DD's came home from school and I looked at her computer and found contact between the DD and the POSOM, it was clear from the reference that the WW was in contact with the POSOM.

I confronted the WW with it and tried to go straight to Plan-B, the WW said she would not leave the house and would if necessary get spousal support from me. I saw the erosion of my Plan-B unacceptable to me so I told her I wanted to D. At that point I saw Plan-B as a waist of time.

We talked it thru and I filed 2 days later.

Looking back I had holes in my surveillance that I never got plugged and I'm paying for it now....... realistically I don't think it would have made any difference in my case

After I filed for D in March I moved to this thread.....

I don't doubt that I have raised more questions so fire away.....

Between the World Cup and the Tour de France starting I'm losing all my productivity Just can't seem to get myself away from the TV.

It's a nice distraction form the D drama.

SC,
Thanks for the synopsis above. Sorry I didn't see it until today. No, I don't really have any questions. Hope you're well.

That's what baseball bats are for.

~Opt~

I figure it's about time for an update...


Since 1990 the WW and I have taken our 4 kids to RAGBRAI (Register's Great Bike Ride Across Iowa ) we haven't gone every year but have been on it over 15 times.

It's always been our favorite vacation and we've raised our kids on that ride. The WW wants us to continue to do that trip together. This year we took a total of 19 people with us and had a great time. On the surface you would never suspect that we're in the process of divorcing.

Just before we left for the trip the appraisal came in for the farm, we haven't talked yet about it but plan to tomorrow. If we can really have a serious talk we should finally start to make some progress, the WW obviously is more interested in taking her time, I'm ready to get on with it.

We have the girls at home right now they are off to college in a little over a week. Then it will be just us chickens around to peck things out.

Sure hope to have something worth reporting next time I update

SC

The WW and I have talked twice now, 1st time was Sunday night, really it is the same conversation we had months ago but now we have a current appraisal on the farm to back it up. I've agreeded to a 50% division of assets including my retirement....OUCH!!!!! Doesn't matter what her behavior has been............ she entitled.

When I write that out it really pisses me off but I was ready just to give her everything about a month ago at a low point, so I guess I need to focus on what I get to keep.

Because it is truly 50% there's nothing to fight over but that's not all she wants. She maintains that she wants " restorative alimony" I think she wants it for about 4 years to pay for law school or something else if she decides.

My lawyer has said I have plenty of evidence to support my position that I should not have to pay it. but I'll have to fight it to get out of it. I'm guessing it will cost me about 20k to fight it paying for both lawyers, I expect the WW will be asking for 2k to 4k a month

The WW's lawyer is big on mediation and I expect that to be the next step for us to go thru, I guess that's when the gloves come off and she sees the video for the 1st time I would hope the shock value of that plus the other stuff I have would get her to cave.

But as we all know there is no day in court where we are vindicated, it all comes down to the money and the whelms of a judge......

I'll be in touch, I'll be pressing the WW to go to what ever step she feels is necessary to move forward, I so appreciate your advice on how to handle these delicate steps that are ahead...

SC

As you are finding out, Ds are not wealth building events. My XWH was going after half of my 401K, so would not settle. My fees alone were almost $50K. Add that to many other loses incurred due to an A, and it all has me starting back at the financial state I was at in my early 30's. Only this time I don't have 30 years to prepare for retirement anymore.

ChailLover,

Yep your right... we don't have much time to recover and I'm sure for me my life style we be affected permanently...... we all need to choose well if we remarry. The thought of going thru something like this again is beyond my comprehension.... never mind the fact I never in a million years thought I would be going thru it in the 1st place.



So almost 4 years into this since the 1st D-date..... it is time to move on!!!!!

I have set up an appointment with my lawyer for tomorrow, I haven't spoke with her for several months, the WW and I are suppose to be working out an amicable solution and since the WW has involved her lawyer that has changed things.

I expect to have a day of mediation, I think it is suppose to be 2 lawyers plus the mediator. I think it is a waist of time but I guess it is worth a try.....

Now is were I am looking for your advice!!!!

I have a video of the WW and the POSOM that is lock tight and the WW doesn't know about it. I have about an 1 inch stack of e-mails and skype contact that I got by snooping her computer but my lawyer says that is not admissible.

The WW is not denying the A and so that may take some of the punch away from me.

I think that the WW hopes to prove she needs the support on 2 fronts
1. Her business is not generating enough income ( this is true but she is working very little and not trying to build her business IMO)
2. Her health prevents her from working full time. ( I think I can beat this one, the WW is a tri athlete and is training for an Iron man. That alone should settle it, I just have to prove it. The health concern is her leg, she had a deep vein thrombosis in her left knee 6 months after we got married, that leg gives her trouble from time to time)

My concern is do I show her what I have during mediation in the hope that she will cave, or do I hold that til the court hearing. As I type this I would think the time to present it is during the mediation, If her lawyer understands that there is no chance to dispute my claim then he may advise my WW to take the deal.

I've been thinking that I could offer 10k or so saying that is what I would be spending to prove my point in court anyway.

So what would you do???

What else would you do ????

What wouldn't you do ?????

What am I not doing that I should be doing??


Also I was thinking of setting a hearing date with the court to put pressure on the WW to settle, with the clock ticking I think it might help , not sure what all the down sides to this one are but I'm going to ask my lawyer about it tomorrow

SC, you should really, really follow your lawyer's advice on this one. If you don't trust your lawyer enough to take her advice, find a new one.

Since you live in a no-fault state and the emails and video tape cannot be introduced to court, you may just piss off the mediator if you show them during mediation. Your lawyer will probably know the mediator and have a guess if this is the case.

Also, you should consider if this may back fire on you and make it less likely your STBX will work with you. When you walk into court, it's a crap shoot, so you want to avoid that.

Stillcommitted,

I just went through a very similar mediation a few weeks ago. Same thing, both lawyers plus a mediator. The only difference is that my WW had no intention of taking it to court and knew that I had a good bit of evidence to prove her affairs and that I was more of the primary care giver than she was.

Without showing too much of your hand, I would have a couple talks with your WS to see if there is some common ground on issues such as custody. If you can have some idea of agreement before mediation, the whole thing goes a lot more smoothly. Other than that, division of assets can be tricky but should end in basically a 50/50 split. Things like child support are usually straight forward and done by a formula.

Coming to a settlement in mediation has a lot of advantages, the biggest being that you and your WS control the outcome, not the the court. And no one knows you and your childrens' situation better than you and your spouse.

With all that being said, mediation is not a court battle, it's a time to see if you two can come together on a common solution. It's not really the place to come in guns a blazin with a lot of accusations and evidence. Let your lawyer steer you through this. My advice is to hold all the evidence back for trial if it is necessary, but maybe let your lawyer give some hints as to what you have if the negotiations are about to fall apart.

Went to see my lawyer today, Talked for 1 1/2 hrs. Wrote her another check,It just doesn't matter what the WW's conduct has been, she'll get about 1/2 and that's just the way it is .


From what I heard today the state will see that she gets 50% unless both parties agree to something else. I can give more (not likely) WW could agree to less (who knows)


I just see myself running out time to repair my retirement.

Before I can have a contested D I have to have a mediated session.

After talking with my lawyer WW and I have agreed to try the less formal of just the 4 of us working on it.

My lawyer feels I won't give up much but time doing it that way if it fails. We would sill have the mediated session before going to court.

I think I'm OK with that, the WW and I are on good terms so far. I know that can change any minute, but for now it seems a reasonable approach. Her lawyer is a mediator but can't act in that capacity while representing the WW.

As far as the kids are concerned the DD's are 21 now and they are the youngest, It is a blessing not to have to fight over custody.


If there is a positive side to this it's that were ready to sit down and try and after months of nothing , that's progress.

Appreciate your thoughts

Just nervous enough about my posts that I'm going to lay low for awhile....

Just in case........ hope to be back up in a month or so....

I'll be lurking

I just can�t believe someone can cheat on another and end up with half the betrayed spouses stuff. And what�s worse is that scenario repeats itself over and over on these boards. Seems like too much hassle and expense to take them to court and try to prove they were wrong so as to reduce it. I am so sorry this is happening to you. I wish I had some pithy thing to say that would make it better, but I don�t.

Understand if you need to lay low, but pls don't disappear completly (spoken from someone who mostly lurks!)

Hey SC

Just catching up on your sitation. WOW looks like a lot has gone on since June.

Sorry about the loss of the D's BF.

How is your brother doing?

I too am moving forward. If nothing changes nothing changes.

See you back here soon.

Nesre

Just a quick update, for those that have kept up with me


Got a mediation date of mid November,

Plan to get back on line after that

Thanks for your prayers

SC

Hope all goes well next month...

Hey SC still with ya. I to have laid low.

Thanks all you no fault divorce states. You suck big time. WayTurd can do as they want and still get half of everything you have worked in good faith to try to provide.

Comes down to the State will make sure they do not end up on them. Period. End of story. Unless you want to spend big money to go to court.

I am right in the middle about the same place as you are SC. Our fun filled Saturday night was hammering out division of everything. At my age and financial state I do not have many years to recover either. I either spend it on a lawyer or just take it you know where.

What bothers me most is it is promoted by most all of the professionals (WayTurds entitlement) regardless of the situation. Starts at the state legislator-then judges. Then the plumbers rule kicks in-The c r a p rolls right down hill. Sure seems to help promote with re-enforcement in the Wayturd their entitlement attitude.

Gonna present our settlement to my lawyer this week and see if he thinks its good. It may actually be on the low side. Not sure a judge will OK it.

I am with ya brother. Still think about you often. Hope to see you here after your mediation...........

Don't forget to bring Vaseline with to mediation. It does help.

Nesre

Nesre,

Good to see your in the fight.... I'm running not walking to the closest exit!!!!!!!! I've be trying to keep a good journal and hope to catch up my thread later when I more comfortable with shearing ......

And yes it sucks......

Take lots of pictures and notes and video, you know the judge just might get pissed off and actually rule with some sanity and put the assets where they will benefit your DD.

One can dream.......

Staying the course

SC

Well, I'm back on my thread......

I had my mediation today, after filing 8 months ago, taking our time to be amicable, it came down to what could have happened in 10 minutes, 4 hrs and $2200.00 later, found out my WW is light years away from a settlement.

The only positive thing that came out of it is I've got the mediation out of the way and can now go to court. And on that note my lawyer told me today it would likely take 9 months by the time it's over.

Staying off my thread didn't seem to matter and I probably overreacted to covering my tracks thru this part of the process.

While I'm venting it was almost exactly 4 years ago that I first suspected the WW of having an A, now 3 A's later and thousands spent on counseling, and never mind the effort I have invested in trying to save our marriage, I am now turning 53 tomorrow and will have been married for 29 years before I can get my freedom from this mess.

Dr H talks about that you will know when it's over and that if you have done everything you can to try to restore the M that you will have less regrets after it's over. From where I sit tonight I have to say the only regret I have right now is that I stayed to long. On the emotional side I am over morning the loss of my M.

It will be sad to watch most of what I have disappear into paying for the D.


My lawyer is confident that we will do well in court, given the judge I have drawn and the nature of the WW's behavior, that I will have to pay some alimony but likely a fraction of what the WW was demanding today.

SC, I'm sorry for you. I know how you feel because I've felt that way myself.

I want you to know how helpful your post is to me. There are times I feel regret and sorrow, and sometimes it bothers me to think I might spend the rest of my life alone.

Then I read a post like yours and realize how much better off I am now than if I had stayed in a faithless, sham of a marriage. The sheer drain on one's emotions, physical and mental health and financial standing just aren't worth it.

Thanks, buddy. I know it's not a great time. But even now you've managed to help someone else, and that's a really good thing!

Count me in as another friend who you have helped by being around and most certainly with your last post, SC. I hope the whole thing doesn't drag out 9 more months and this is just a lawyer's conservative guess. If you remember, for me the mediation approach I think expedited things somewhat and most likely contributed to lopping off 3 months of the wait period anyway. Good heavens you've certainly been through enough.

As for this:
I don't know how this could be more true. In fact for me it is more true now than it was the day the divorce became final. I can't even explain how much life can improve once you put a bad marriage in the rearview mirror, if you do it properly. I know I've tried to do it properly and mostly achieved that goal -- for certain I moved on much more thoroughly than I ever would have without MB and the guidance from good folks here [and that is an extreme understatement.] I believe you are on a similar path SC. I believe you will have zero regrets my friend. May not seem like it now, but I think you'll see what I mean in a year's time (and trust me I wish it was sooner as well, but the date it goes official is monumental in a positive way, and you'll go up from there. You will.)

Sorry if this is a little garbled but it's late. Hopefully you get what I'm saying.

Opt

Opt and Fred,

Thanks for chiming in on my thread, means alot to me,

Today was my birthday, I've had better days, woke up this morning thinking about the mediation and how worthless it was. One of the things that the WW ask of me right after I filed was, what was most important to me , speed or a fair division of our assets. I made the mistake of choosing the "fair" option.

Months and Months eked by as she worked toward her "fair" position then months trying to set up this mediation session

When I walked out of the mediation, I left on the table the WW's last proposal which was 40% of my take home pay for 10 years plus 75% of my 401k ( I have mandatory retirement in 12 years), if she worked a week at her job during a month, she would make more than me. Obviously with minimal effort she will be in a better finical position than me !!!!!! What grieves me most is it will leave me unable to keep my 3 kids that are currently in college there.

How can this woman that professes to still love me and care for my well being, leave me in such a finical ruined position that I will not only be unable to see my kids thru school and be so ham strung by her that I will be unable recover financially by the time I retire.

The answer............ Because she can


On the plus side my lawyer is confident we'll do much better that........

SC, I can't help but have that choking feeling when I read something like this. I'd think that after a while I'd get used to reading about stuff like this, but so far, no go. It still hits like a punch in the gut.

Hang in there, buddy. Listen to your lawyer - it sounds like he may actually have your interests at heart (or whatever it is that passes for a heart in a lawyer).

Some more D update,

When I filed originally,and since we were going to have an "uncontested" D I did not list a complaint. The 1st thing my lawyer did the day after the Mediation failed was to amend my filing to include adultery and inappropriate marital conduct. This puts everything on hold for 30 days so the WW can respond.

The WW and I had a conversation about the discovery portion of going to court and she is under the impression that if she stipulates the A's that it will be unnecessary to depose her lovers........ Not the case, looks like my lawyer will be dragging all of them in. That should be interesting, (and expensive). Sounds like all that will start to happen in the new year.

On the plus side due to the nature of my work I have some time off and am spending most of it with my sons who are both in Colorado for the winter, I've already got 7 days skiing under my belt and doing it about as cheap as it can be done. Sleeping in an RV, got a season pass, best part I know the WW wants to be out here.

Fred and Opt, I've been enjoying your dating updates, haven't touched another woman in 30 years now and I'm learning a lot from you guys.

You're learning from ME???? Wow, SC, you're in real trouble...

Wishing you the merriest of Christmases, under the circumstances. You will come out of this better, stronger, wiser and healthier!

SC

Just wanted to stop by and say Merry Christmas!!

I haven;t been posting but we are still in about the same baot as I have been reading your thead.

DON'T Break a leg skiing!

Nesre

Just to update,

I came home on the 25th from seeing the boys, had a great time skiing, left myself just an extra day or so before leaving on my next work trip.

I am suppose to be on the road for another 3 days but my trip changed unexpectedly and I am back home, I've been doing my best to plan-B her, and had not made any contact with the WW and just came home early..... surprise....... as I expected, the WW is not home, heat down in the house, back door ajar,(so the dogs could get in) and mail in the box so the WW had left probably the morning of the 30th as one of ours daughters was home til the 29th. I left the morning of the 28th. The overnight suitcase the WW uses is gone so I assume she's out playing with others.....

My lawyer wants current A stuff so I'm getting back into full snoop mode. Guess I'll be driving up to the airport to cruise the lots for the WW's car (for pictures and inspection), it's really just more of the same but may help as most of my stuff is going on a year old now, I know that will change once we go to discovery and I finally get my hands on her phone records.

Should be a busy week getting things caught up around here and putting the things in place I need so I can leave again (mice play better without the cat breathing down their neck).

Would much rather be skiing with my kids than facing this crap, so the sooner I get my act together the better.

Looking for input on a GPS tracker, guess I'm open to a cell phone one but was leaning towards web based, but it's got to be user friendly

Happy New Year All, may this one be better than the last.

SC, I bought and had great success with the LandAirSea GPS Tracking Key

http://www.landairsea.com/gps-tracking-systems/gps-tracking-key.html

To make doubly sure weather wouldn't gum things up, I wrapped it in a sandwich baggie before placing it inside the car's bumper. I only needed 30 seconds to place it and 30 seconds to remove it. It plugs into a computer's USB port and utilized Google Earth to give maps and terrain views. The reports it produced were accurate to a matter of meters, and the timing information (it "sleeps" when no motion is detected) produced made an ironclad case for where, when and for how long WW had been.

Wow!! She doesn't expect much, does she? Or has she always felt that the universe revolved around her?

tl

I am amazed at how clueless her lawyer is and how much the WW depends on his advice and the POSOM's advice, which I'm sure is you can get it!!!!!!! never mind what it will do to your husband, or the kids....... you poor thing he's trying to run all over you, the judge won't care you've had multiple A's

Don't get me started, it is so unbelievable

SC

Hows it going???

nESRE

Yeah, SC. You're posting on my thread, how about updating us on yours???

Nesre, always good to hear from you,

Fred, your dating is cracking me up, still can't decide how I'll handle it myself.


Well not to much to tell, had to wait for 30 days to pass before we can proceed with the next step.

It's been over 30 days and nothing from my lawyer yet.

One thing of interest, the laptop the WW was using a year ago that I had most of my War Chest built on had been put a way since the WW got the new laptop (a mac) anyway after the mediation I was looking for the old laptop and couldn't find it. I ask the WW about it and she said she had given it to one of our boys....score !!!! the laptop had been originally purchased by a volunteer organization that she was a board member of, she got to keep it. ( they just buy new laptops every few years ) since she gave it to my son and my son gave it to me now it's MINE!!!!

So the next step is to have a forensic computer geek work it over so I'll have what I need for court..... a victory I'll take. Sure don't want to end up like that guy in MI that may go to jail for tapping his WW's computer.

My lawyer said he wanted current evidence of miss behavior so I'm gearing up for that. got most of what I need in place now but could use some more fine tuning. The one thing I think I can count on is the WW playing, I've just got to be ready. At this point it's just something else to do and not to emotionally taxing, although I'll probably feel different about that latter.

I've been in my version of a Plan-B and have really liked it,although the WW and I still sleep in the same bed ( the dogs sleep between us and chaperon ) My boys are in CO for the winter and I have already skied 14 days with them, I've got my season pass so I can ski about as cheap as I can stay home and look at her cheating Azz.

I leave on a work trip tomorrow and I think I ended up being in the house with her maybe 5 days this month...... I promise I'll try to do better next month !!!!! looks like my schedule will let me ski with the boys for up to 10 days, coupled with work I'm going to have a hard time recognizing her.

So yes I'm OK

I'm sure things will heat up later

And by the way I had planned to do a cross county bike ride after the D to "clear my head" and had started planning it for starting in late May, one of my boys plans to ride with me, only bad part is I won't be D by then but I'm going anyway.

The WW has been wanting me to tell her about the trip and offered to drive a support vehicle......I declined, the WW is in fantasy D land.

Whew.

My hat's off to you, SC. I don't think I could stand to sleep in the same bed with my WW. Even though she stayed under the same roof with me, she moved into another bedroom the day after DDay.

I can't say for sure, but even with two dogs between us as chaperons, I would probably grow to loathe her in short order. For you to be able to bear this is quite a testament!

While I enjoy being the source of others' entertainment, I really am getting value out of the comments and suggestions I've been receiving. Thanks.

I look forward to reading your exploits in the not too distant future...

You seem to be doing good with your arrangement SC and I too applaud you for that. You've found a way to navigate this portion of it all that suits your personality and style.

She's still actively in the affair, huh?

Hopefully it's one of those double-king sized beds and your dog is trained as a border guard.
(yuck)

Happy skiing,
Opt

The WW came down with the Flu, she had been out with the boys skiing, she came home just after I left for my business trip.

It's not all bad I'm in Honolulu for today, hard to feel sorry for yourself here.

Been getting some nibbles that my lawyer should be able to work with, and I'm not even trying hard yet. Always nice to get these little victories.

Another good one, I found out today that I'm getting a bonus check that will cover the bike trip I have planned, so what little bit of guilt I was feeling is long gone now.

I have had an interesting series of events since my mediation failed that my atheist WW would chock up to chance but I see as a series of blessings, nice feeling knowing I'm not facing this thing alone, and no matter how it works out in the end I know that my Lord is looking out for me.

By the way I've got a Golden Retriever and a English Bulldog that snores more than I do and farts alot :-)

It's wonderful that you still have faith that someone (God/higher power) is watching out for you.

My faith has been tested, and I feel a little empty because of it. My whole being wants to believe that I am being watched over. but I have the faith of a mustard seed. At least I have that........

I'm happy that things seem to going your way, considering...

Ah, Honolulu...What I wouldn't give to get away somewhere gorgeous and peaceful like that right now.

Maybe I'll go there in my head for a few minutes.

One thing I guess I have learned is that God is consistent, He will wait on you, and it is up to us to reach for Him. I don't pretend to understand how my life has turned out as it has, I don't see this as "God's ideal plan for my life", nor do I see the loss of a child "God's plan" either, I do see that He is ready to stand by us no matter what we are going thru and if we are willing He will bless us.

And I have been feeling blessed lately in spite of the circumstances in my life right now.


To update a little I will get home tomorrow, from being on the road since the 24th, have heard from my DD's that the WW plans to spend the weekend with them. So if my math is right I'll be at the house for 24hrs with the WW, she'll leave for the weekend, I get the farm reset then it's off the Colorado to ski with the boys, my kind of a plan B....

Will try to get with my lawyer while I'm home in a hope to move things along.

Like!

I walked in the door after not seeing the WW for 2 weeks, unlike before she made no move to hug me..... she's starting to catch on to my "Plan-B". It amazes me how much emotional energy I still spend dealing with the D and her. Mostly it's when I'm trying to fall asleep and my mind wonders. I'll be glad when I can go to sleep and not think of her or the POSOM.

I have a lot of great days but still have bad ones,I know the beginning of the healing will be when I finish the D.



Oh yeah,

I've set up to get my 6 year old grandson, to hang out for the weekend.

There will be plenty of pizza and Toy Story, I'll get to take him to church with me as well.

Sounds like a great weekend! I hope to have grandkids someday.

I know that your schedule makes it hard, but I'd strongly suggest that you look into a divorce recovery group (or maybe a couple in different cities). While my divorce is STILL not final, I feel like I'm making real progress on my healing due to my group.

Kirby,

I hadn't really thought about going to a D recovery group, I'll give it some thought.

The WW walked in just after the superbowl,after being gone for the weekend, I plan to run away in the morning for the week and stay with my boys.

I will have to spend some time in town to work on the D stuff.
I got the questions I have to fill out for her lawyer, it will take me a month to fill that thing out !!!!! I glance at it and there is a series of questions on me cheating, women I've touched, fondled, or had sex with. Good feeling knowing I can feel that out with a clear conscience. I have to reveal my war chest, so the video is coming out,

There is at least a chance that what I have may loosen up their side......... time will tell on that one.

Update time

The old WW wanted to talk , she had several points she wanted to talk about, most of them relating to my plan B of not communicating and her trying to give me space. So we talked that out for awhile. She said she still loves me and wants to share things with me..... I said that it is wrong for us to do anything that bond us to each other, and that the "space" is helping me to recover emotionally

She threw the open relationship card back on the table, wanting me to consider it again.... Said No

She wants to set up a college account to cover the kids finishing school that we both give equally to........ I said I'd think on that one.

She said she is open to alternative settlement that allows my pay off to her to be spread over time....... I said I'm open to any alternative she wants to suggest

Then she told me that she had been dishonest with me, that when she told me about the relationship she had with an OW it was false, that she did it to help me see how far apart we were and how different our needs are,
She added that she knows how important it is to be honest under oath, and she wanted to clear that up with me, she apparently told the OW what she had done and she is aware that I might be deposing her.

I have no evidence of that A only what the WW had told me at the time, if leaves me wondering how far to push that one in court.

She was either trying to throw me off her and the POSOM or it was for real and she was coming clean with me. I think like so many lies that there are shreds of truth in what she said, trouble is where the truth stops and the lies start, and how much effort should be spent finding it out.

As I writing this I think my lawyer may be able to use it showing mental cruelty, that the WW was lying to me making a horrible situation worse, that after finding her in her 2nd A that she added this on top of it and then let it remain that way until now almost 2 years later with me thinking there was a 3rd A in the middle of all this.

This whole OW thing is pissing me off the more I think about it. She knows that I've had that weighing on me since (I looked it up fall of 2008)

I've been flashing back to the memory of the conversation we had at the time, how contrite and worried she was to tell me, how she cried at the time and hoped I could except it, that she needed me to know it as well.

No matter which way it is she was playing head games on me then or playing them now... either way it sucks.

"Knowledge is Power" just got to figure out how to use it best

Really? I mean really? Open relationship? What is with these women? Mine said something similiar at one point; she wanted us to live together and raise the kids but date other people, etc. Really? And I must have missed the OW thing in the first place, sounds like emotional cruelty to me my friend... and you're still living under the same roof as this woman? Sigh... no advice, just know that I feel your pain.

Travis

Travis'

I talked about the OW thing on my other thread when I was still in the save my marriage mode..... long since past.....

The whole open relationship thing is her fantasy cake eating life she wants me to be part of......

I'll be the perfect wife when your home .......

I'll meet all your needs.......

I just need some space to have some of my needs met that you can't meet....

I'll only do it when your not home......

You can do it to ...... get some strange if you want..... it will be great !!!!

Bwahahaha! Uh huh... Just wonderful.

I told STBXW that I wanted the opportunity to actually have a meaningful relationship with a woman at some point, not a sleazy pseudo relationship. Amazing... just plain amazing.

SC, some days I think we live in the twilight zone!

That we do

when to you PCS and did you check on which state you should live in for the D

I still haven't gotten official orders yet so I'm not sure on when but I'll definitely be living in Missouri. The tax situation is better and the waiting period is 90 days vice 6 months for Illinois. All around, looks like Missouri is going to be the better bet. As to when, I think it's going to be in May/June. Won't be any later than that I think.

SC Good to see you on.

Your WW's fantasy ranks right up there with my WW's

Sliding my new wife over when we are in bed-Boinkin my brains out-and then leaving! Where does the crap come from?

She actually told me this.

nESRE

nESRE

Good to see you too, you any closer to getting things resolved??

SC

Hasn't been that long since you were over across the other side!




How can yo tell when a WW is lying??

Come on-You know the answer......

nESRE

you too still in the house ????

and hows the DD

Moved to an apartment again this time 5m from the house. DD 17.5 wouldn't come with me. She garduates in late May and I don't know how but is on the honor roll this quarter.

I couldn't take the crazyness of WW being there-gone-drunk for days-broken promises to quit-missing work-total upheaval.

Asked her-told her-to leave and she wouldn't so I did.

Our final will be in june unless we come to an agreement first and I know you can hardly believe it she wants the moon and the stars.

Just got here about a 10 days ago and now trying to work into a new pattern. I had one slip up with her and did a rescue last week but have since stayed totally dark.

Starting to feel better. Been to tied up in her crap for too long. Gptta get back to living again.

Do you have a court date yet? Maybe I missed it in your posts before.

Good your keeping some distance but wouldn't going totally dark help more? Financially you guys must be working together yet aren't you?

That explains it!

Thanks TCC

we seem to be behaving well enough, I watch the check book close and have my pay check going to another account 1st just in case

Like you she refused to leave the house and I'm not going to either

I just find other places to be most of the time, this afternoon she wanted to talk over some of that and ask what my plans were for the next week even offered to go to her parents while I am home to give me space

we don't fight but the space still does me good!!!! I want to talk settlement with her and don't think total darkness is in my best interest right now,

I'm still watching her in hopes of getting more current stuff for my lawyer

and no we don't have a court date yet..... just doing the lawyer questions now, deps to follow after that

I take it you are not in a no fault state. I also would say your WW is staying extremely careful too. Right?

I am in a no fault 50/50 state. I think I can do better but I will not go into detail here.

WW did post for one brief day here and after ML got ahold of her and called her on her sh crap it she would not come back.

ML was right on the money w/o ever meeting her, posting. or knowing she was my WW.

TCC

LAST CALL

Are you in?

there you go.....

she'll cut right to the chase

the marital assets get and "equitable distribution" which means 50/50 unless I can get her to accept less...... not happening

the alimony has about 10 things the judge looks at and her conduct is a factor

she was ask for 600k ..... I said what planet are you from....

that's plus 1/2 the assets

and no I'm not that rich..... not even close

slow writer

guess it's after 1 for you

Sun moon and the stars. WOW-Oh yeh thats right I remember in one of your older posts you said don't get me started.

I tried to log in that night and for some reason I couldn't log on.

Its about 12:20 here and this old man is getting tired. Theres no dispute from the rowdy crowd here that I nESRE need all the beauty sleep I can get!

In fact there shouting get lots more! Tons of it!

Do you usually fly the same routes or does your schedule/destinations vary all the time?

Talk to you again SC

Hang on tight with both hands.........

Nesre,

I, flying one trip a month right now and lately it's been to Japan then points beyond, I get to go to Hong Kong on the next trip and I haven't been there in a few years. Not bad duty.....

I've got my questionnaire from WW's lawyer, my goal is to have that thing finished by Wednesday so I'm going to have to focus for awhile. I am motivated to keep that stuff moving forward.

Keep focused man. You've been on a long journey here.

Best of luck-Make sure to land- wheels side down. OK. Ya you probably knew that.......................

nESRE

Yeah, it's been a great carrier , mostly

Had a great life going til the WW made that hard 90 degree turn in the middle of our lives, such a waste of what was a great marriage..... at least in my view,

Of course, the WW says I was a perfect H so, I'm not alone in my assessment of a marriage that should have made it.

But that's in the Past and it's not my future

WW update for tonight, she has moved to the guest room, respecting my need for space I guess, our golden retriever is a TRADER and went in there with the WW, so far our English bulldog is hanging with me, but she snores and farts

For all who care, had both dogs in bed with me the last few nights, nice to know their siding with me at least when I'm home.

Still trying to get the WW's lawyers questions answered. just about got my lawyer happy with it and should have it ready to send to them 1st of next month, I should put a ruler to the pile but it's over 6 inches thick and growing, of course that's x2 because my lawyer has to have the same stuff. I guess the longer your married the bigger the stack is going to be.

I gave the WW's (now mine) old computer to my PI who's firm also does computer forensic work. I know what's on the computer it's just how much money it will cost to retrieve the goods that are on it. I'll have the report when I get back home.

One thing I can count on is that it will be interesting.

I continue to enjoy space how ever I can get it, every time I'm around the WW is triggers an emotional response, I forget what the WW has done and is doing when I'm not is her presences,

A positive that I have is that I don't miss being around her, I gain comfort in that, I am beginning to see her in a different light, guess I'm looking for flaws, no doubt she in an attractive woman but as I looked at her yesterday I was noticing how she has aged,especially in her face, of course I have as well but we're not talking about me....... I sure I'm just as hansom as ever!!!!

I guess my point is I think I can move on and look forward to it.

At least the dogs are loyal, eh?




*shrug* I am not looking forward to all of that. I wonder if anything could make that experience more fun........



About to find out some more truths about your life. I don't envy you. I hated finding stuff. It hurt.



Amen. It only took me a few times of seeing my husband after he left to realize that I had to not see him. I seriously would be physically off kilter for about 3 days before I evened out again. It was just the thought of what he's doing that felt so wrong, abusive, and surreal to me that I couldn't be around him.



It would be so easy for me to find flaws about my husband, focus on those, and feel better about us splitting. But that dang forgiveness thing I have going on, makes that hard for me to do.

I will say though that I DO NOT miss the drama of the wind shifting almost daily.



Leading a double life and destroying a family can do that to a person.



LOL.....nice. Love the confidence.



I have no doubt, and I'm happy you're healing.

Have you talked to her about who gets custody of the dogs? It sounds like they prefer you, but your schedule must make it difficult.



I'm glad you are starting to look toward moving on. I'm there, too. But, if your divorce is anything like mine, it's going to take FOREVER.

There's nothing more unbecoming on a woman than dishonesty. And the converse is true.
My ex was cute for sure. Now I get a gross feeling in my stomach when I have to look at her knowing how she snuck around and kept secrets from me.

[New GF on the other hand: pretty AND honest. THAT's attractive.]

Keep pluggin' SC

Opt

Thanks for your input guys, it always helps me.


The old STBXWW will ask me if I have read her blog she keeps, often I have not and she is disappointed to her me say that. I was checking up on her and saw she had an up date on her blog she had posted..... Thought you guys would appreciate her prospective on life right now.

These are her words.............

There are not many downsides to finding joy in writing. Most of the time (fully 99.9%) writing, for me, is a delight. It is a refuge and a tool and a gift. However, when you do find this pleasure in the written expression of your thoughts, feelings, and experiences, you accept with that the 2:30 am visits from your mythical muse. She calls, with a whisper, and like another myth, the siren, she pulls you toward her, irresistibly beckoning you to the screen, the page, the keyboard. You attempt to placate her with mental bargaining, promising her you will respond with the light of day, assuring her of the solidity of your memory. But in the end, her beauty always wins.

This post is long overdue. Personal reasons, none of which include a fear of its writing or reading, have dictated its timing. A series of events over the recent past have convinced me that now is the time to publish this.

If you stick with me through the end of what is sure to be a lengthy, intimate narrative, I thank you in advance. What started out as a simple training blog has turned into a vehicle of self-expression whose importance I could not have begun to realize. So to those who read this through to the end, I extend my appreciation for completing the circle of the dual purpose of the blog.

Many of the blogs I choose to follow have a posting of this topic. The cleverness of the title is my own, but it is only a variation on a theme. This is the story of my journey out of faith and into reason. It is highly personal, at times painful, and ultimately joyful. I commit to be as honest as I can in reconstructing the sequence, and in recapturing the emotion of the moment. Along with the gratitude I�ve already expressed, I ask for your forbearance; by its very nature this post may be offensive.

I was born a Southern Baptist. That�s a bit of a play on words � Baptists do not believe you are born into the faith. That is an event of your own choosing, and in this case, I use the phrase to mean I was born into a family of Southern Baptists by several generations. I was fully integrated into the faith from birth, experienced personal salvation at age 6, and participated in every aspect of Baptist education, from Sunday School (now Bible Study Fellowship) on Sunday mornings, Training Union (now Discipleship Training) on Sunday nights, first Sunbeams (now Mission Friends), then GA�s then Acteens on Wednesdays, and Worship every Sunday morning and Sunday evening. Then came the Baptist Student Union (now Baptist Campus Ministries) in college, then on to teaching all of those on my own as a young adult, wife, and mother. I served on every committee my churches have had, even the Committee on Committees, a concept that still makes me chuckle. I have served as Sunday School Director, Mission Education Director, Youth Leader, Vacation Bible School Teacher, and Sunday School Teacher. Lest you think my church experience was all busywork and no personal calling, allow me now to assure you that I took every one of those responsibilities very seriously. I do not believe anyone with whom I served, or anyone I taught would dispute that. My faith was the driving force behind my work at church; my highest street cred of a genuine faith was that I committed to rearing my beloved children in that same faith. That is my Baptist pedigree.

When those same precious children entered their teenage years, they began asking me the questions that relentlessly smart, thinking, driven children ask when they are asserting their independence. Those questions were about the contradiction of the faith with science:

�6 million species, mom? On one boat?�

�6000-year-old earth?�

�Creationism?�

There were also the questions of the scholarship:

�Where are the original manuscripts?�

�3 sets of Ten Commandments? And they�re not the same?�

�Divinely inspired writers didn�t know the earth moved around the sun?�

Then the questions of morality:

�God did THAT with children who teased Elijah?�

�Lot gave his daughters up for rape?�

�God had them kill the women, children, livestock, and keep the young women as bounty?�

I set about finding answers for my children, and for myself. A point of irony here is that even as a believer I was considered a liberal, a radical, because I was reluctant to accept the Baptist party line for all the above questions. I had had to repress my own critical thinking skills to accept those party line answers my whole life, and I was not about to allow my children to go without information they asked me for.

I sought information from every avenue. This was the early era of the internet, and I capitalized on the new gift of the information age with vigor. I sought answers from old reliable sources � the institution of religion in general, and my church and its convention in particular. My prayers to my god were fervent, focused, and constant, and were breathed with confidence and patience. I also looked outside the faith, to be absolutely certain I had covered every possible angle, and to strengthen what I already knew with conviction: that despite those difficult questions, my faith would emerge right, and victorious, and applicable.

I can�t tell the story without including this personal branch of the journey. Simultaneous to my spiritual journey, I had embarked on a physical journey. Upon the celebration of my 40th birthday, I experienced an epiphany about the state of my health: that the first 40 years of one�s life, one�s body would respond pretty effectively to the demands placed on it � the second 40 required giving a lot back. I was overweight, out of shape, and clueless about how to alter that. I began researching nutrition and anatomy and physiology and our biological heritage, and our political heritage and how they both affected our collective national health.

I found that both quests took me in a direction heavily weighted toward science. I became a critic of experiment and application and hypothesis, and refused to accept dogma, conventional wisdom, and common practice, without evidence. I was comfortable in this territory � I had trod a similar road in exploring conventionally accepted practices in the 1980′s of living a credit lifestyle, and refused to go along with that too, to my family�s better financial health. I refined my ability to spot an untested theory or unquestioned principle or faulty premise.

I found my church and its larger organization to be of little help in theory or application. I found earnestness and routine explanations, but no answers. I did, however, find tremendous amounts of information outside the walls of the church and greater institution. I found sound science. I found ration and reason. I had moments of utter astonishment, seething anger, and sublime joy. I have this passage written by Robert G. Ingersoll committed to memory:

�When I became convinced that the universe is natural, that all the ghosts and gods are myths, there entered into my brain, into my soul, into every drop of my blood the sense, the feeling, the joy of freedom. The walls of my prison crumbled and fell. The dungeon was flooded with light and all the bolts and bars and manacles became dust. I was no longer a servant, a serf, or a slave. There was for me no master in all the wide world, not even in infinite space. I was free�free to think, to express my thoughts�free to live my own ideal, free to live for myself and those I loved, free to use all my faculties, all my senses, free to spread imagination�s wings, free to investigate, to guess and dream and hope, free to judge and determine for myself . . . I was free! I stood erect and fearlessly, joyously faced all worlds.�

My children, whose stories are their own, served as both pupil and teacher in my own process. They leave me speechless with their courage and conviction, they challenge me with their intellect, and they amaze me with their insight and generosity. They are bright and driven and happy and kind and compassionate and moral, and I learn from them almost daily, now, in their young adulthood.

I know this post has been interminably long, and I am aiming toward a conclusion, but I have to make a few more points before my story is complete. In my relationships with believers, as I share my position, there arises without fail a certain sequence of statements that I feel compelled to address preemptively, as it were. I know a number of my readers are of the faith, and it accelerates the process for me to answer them. I will do so as briefly as possible; each topic deserves a post of its own, but for the sake of brevity, I will summarize:

What about an afterlife?

There is no evidence that any part of us survives our death. No amount of wishful thinking or hoping can change that. I will be as I was before I was born; I will not exist. With the loss of the joy of heaven comes the relief of the loss of hell. Because of the reality of this premise, each morning when I open my eyes, I think: �I get to be here for one more day. I get to hear my children�s voices for one more day. I get to see the sky and hear the birds and smell the air and taste the life of one more day.� Only artists can convey the bliss that thought brings to me EVERY DAY.

How can you believe everything just banged into life?

I don�t. I believe that cosmology will give us the answers to the beginning of life, abiogenesis, in time. I accept the theory of natural selection as the simple, easily explained, completely verified, blind, organic process that it is. Evolution is not random chance, it is not apes evolving into people; we can follow the fossil record that undisputedly reveals to us the shared ancestors we have. This information is easily accessed, and quite easily understood by 4th graders across the world.

How can you be moral without the bible?

Easily. Being the master of my own morality is at once a profound responsibility, a humbling privilege, and an exquisite joy. It is messy and complicated and troubling, and in research requires thought and patience, and in application requires time and effort and money and energy. I have no directive to judge others, and I am free to apply my ethics as I am convicted. I can very generally say that my philosophy is this:

Decrease suffering. Increase joy.

Why not just believe? If you have so much to lose, and everything to gain, why not just believe?

This is called Pascal�s wager, and although I have explained it numerous times to well-meaning believers, I choose to add this link to another blogger�s post about it, because she is a great deal more gifted than I, and her view is identical to mine.

http://gretachristina.typepad.com/greta_christinas_weblog/2011/02/why-pascals-wager-sucks.html

My muse is smiling. I can now sleep. I cannot close without this, however.

I am as happy a person as I have ever been. I am comfortable in my skin, I take great pride in my belief system, and I look forward to every moment of every day. I love moments with my family and friends and I am exceedingly grateful for the life I have had. I have faults and failings and frailties, and I make mistakes and act rashly. I forgive and am forgiven, I give and I receive, I learn and I grow. I am imperfect, but I am not evil or sinful. I embrace the journey that this life is, I seek adventure and new experiences with robust passion, and I am endlessly delighted at discovering science�s secrets.

This post, more than any other, thank you for reading.





WHAT my WW did not say was that her 1st A involved one of the men in her married with young kids Sunday School class.

And that her journey into atheism started after the A.

So that's part of what I'm facing, what is most painful is that all my kids have been influenced by her, they are proud of her and think she's great. All profess to be atheist now.

I stand alone in my beliefs, praying for them all. I know this is not the end of it, that my kids will feel that hole that is left in their soul when God is not part of there lives.

Just venting in my way, I finish my trip on the 4th and go back home, should be ready to see my lawyer as some as I get back to keep things moving forward.

SC

SC,

I'll admit I haven't read your entire stich. But, as a once proclaimed atheist (raised Episcopalian), who has since abandoned that copout (but still subscribes to the sciences); it sounds to me like a midlife identity crisis. The way she speaks of being raised (read 'forced') in her faith, and how feverishly involved she was UNTIL she reached a certain age. Only to slide to the extreme opposite of the spectrum just as feverishly. It amazes me how some people can't find balance in their heads. I know I'm tired of dealling with it with STBXW...

I feel for you brother. And I know that your children think they are helping her. But, being young, we look only to the short term. In time, I'm sure they will understand differently.

I am not the most devoted, but I will say this to you. Go with God my friend. Go with God.

SC, I feel your pain. Unfortunately, I can relate.

My stbxh delved into the New Age philosophy during our (un)recovery. He now makes his own rules to suit his lifestyle, and thinks he's the best thing going since skippy peanut butter. The man has no integrity and is emotionally void of remorse for his selfishness and whims.

To be honest, I wished I would have NEVER met my husband. My life is NOT better having known him. I am healing in spite of him though.

My stbx "shared" all of his new age philosophy with my son, and now my son doesn't believe in God at all. My son has a hole in his soul that even he can't explain.

The worst part, I can't prove them wrong. All I know is that it feels like evil has fallen upon this family, and I do my very best to show light and love without pushing beliefs on my children. I do tell them about my feelings and experiences with it. That's all I can do.

And you know what? It doesn't matter a hill of beans to me if they believe in God or not, athiest or not. What does matter to me is that people are decent human beings who are not selfish, liars, with no conscience to speak of when it comes to another human being.

If our exes are what "New Age" is all about, I don't want what they are selling. They jump from one relationship to the next thinking they are "developing" when the exact opposite is true. They're not developing anything except for more instant gratification because they haven't developed enough to deal with real life and relationships.

/vent over.

MJ, I think I'll just follow you around tonight and say: Amen!

ROFLMAO!

Man alive, I haven't felt this riled up in awhile. SC's last post could have been written by my stbx. He reads, and has posted a few times, on this "personal development" forum and I just want to slam him over there. Heck, even the people on the forum that do share his views are at least decent enough to not sneak around and cheat.

Honestly, I do not see the personal development my H thinks he has. I wonder what I'm not missing.

SC, it sounds like what my WSTBXH thinks. I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that she has influenced your kids to follow her.

My favorite quote of her's was this

"I have no directive to judge others, and I am free to apply my ethics as I am convicted. I can very generally say that my philosophy is this:

Decrease suffering. Increase joy."

I think the quote would be more accurate to say

"Decrease MY suffering. Increase MY joy, because it is all about me after all.

Nice to be able to make up your own rules to suit what ever situation you find yourself in

Exactly, and they do not care that they are increasing other's suffering. They'd say that's our problem. Yeah, my problem is that I picked a guy with no integrity and it became my problem.

Before my husband left, I asked him if he thought what he was doing was wrong and he said "by whose rules?" So yeah, they make up their own rules as they go. I'm cool with that as long as you don't destroy a family in the process. Personal development my azz.

I got one too!

Last week STBXW was posting about how you shouldn't lie to her, because she has a 7th sense to that, and she'll find out.

Sucks when you get what you give...

She speaks from experience.

Hey Itsa...my H once told me that "he hated it when I didn't believe him when he WAS telling the truth".

I mean, I get it. I'm sure he did hate that. I actually hurt for him for that. But what could I do? I gave him chances to build the trust back, but he was resentful over it.

SC, I think you're kids won't stay atheist for ever. They were raised with a strong Christian faith, right? Keep praying, I bet one by one they return in their time, interpreting their life experiences as they go - ultimately coming to conclusions based on their core upbringing.

I have a personal story that goes along with the above but it's a little boring - suffice to say my cousin prayed for me daily for years, never told me about it, but when I returned to the church 2 years ago he knew God had worked in my life.

Opt

Wow, just wow.

While I will certainly give you WW style points for her eloquence, that's the biggest pile of justifcation/rationalization fog vommit that I've ever read.

Her actions could not be reconciled with her beliefs or God's moral code, so she ditches God and makes up her own as she goes?

Guys,

thanks for all the inputs, helps to know I'm not alone in this nightmare....... not that I'm glad you here suffering too.

MJ, that line about your WH saying he hates it when you don't believe him when he tells you the truth, I love.

Like your suppose to be clairvoyant enough to know when he's telling the truth and when he's lying so you only get pissed when your supposes to.

Waywards, what can you do with them........


D them of course!!!!

( I am 4 years into this mess at this point so that, save the marriage part I'm over.)



On to more pleasant thoughts.

Spent some time with a fellow worker that finished his D about 5 years ago, He had some excellent points about where I am right now and some things I should be doing. It's always good to be able to bounce things off someone else.

Biggest pointer that he gave me was the fixed portion of my retirement that the WW gets (bless her heart) can be used to off set her alimony. It is income she can access now and would go towards her monthly living expenses, That could make a significant difference in what I might be forced to pay.

This retirement money I can not access until I retire, the WW could start drawing it immediately, although with a penalty, so it is her choice to use it or not, the key is it is available to her. I would be able to use the penalized amount towards her alimony, and if the lawyer was right about how much I might be expected to pay I would already be 2/3's there on what I have to come up with.

I plan to get a vocational expert to testify to the WW's earning potential if she were actually working at her business. and that, with her behavior, plus what she is walking with might just leave me right where I want to be which is ZERO dollars to her in alimony.

OK OK..... I know that quote will come back to haunt me later,

But I do have a right to dream.

Mr. Wondering,

I was working with a guy on my last trip that had gone through his D about 5 years ago. He had an interesting approach to the alimony demands from my WW.

I have a pension (frozen since my company went through a bankruptcy some years ago) My WW is going to get half of it.

My friend said his lawyer in Calf. was able to have his pension income imputed against his EX's alimony award.

Because the Ex could access her side of the pension immediately after the D if she chose to, they we're able to impute the potential income from the pension, against the alimony award.

The logic as I understand it is that the pension income is not available to me because I have to retire to receive it. Because my WW is able to access her side of the pension and that income is not available to me, I am able to impute that income and offset the amount of the alimony award by that amount.

My friend's divorce was in Calf., I'm in Tennessee, I have done a google search for cases that have that type of award in it but have not found an example of one yet. All the examples I saw were related imputing pension income against child support awards.


This has the potential to be HUGE for me providing a great deal of relief from the amount of alimony I have to pay monthly.


My Questions are.......

Does this ring true to you???

Do you know of any legal presidents I can use to help make my case??

Any other Ideas about it????

Thanks for your input.

SC

No idea. I'm not a divorce lawyer and this is a pretty specific alimony question.

If I was sitting on a stack of time I'd maybe try to find an answer for you. It MAY be easy or it may be unanswerable (which means you research like heck only to finally ascertain that it doesn't appear your state has an answer on the issue).

It DOES make sense. It's not a strict wash since SHE can draw it NOW but you can't access it until later. My best bet is that it will come down to whatever the judge thinks. STBXW would be wise to indicate strongly that she has NO intention of taking early distributions. Hopefully, the judge will disregard such argument and this may be one of those instances where being the wayward spouse (even in a no fault state) will come back to bite her. Judge will hopefully take your side because he/she wants to and you've given him a "legal" means of shafting the adulterous spouse.

Having the law on your side is no way near as beneficial as having the judge on your side.

Good luck,

Mr. W

edit to add: it may also come down to your states and this judges view of alimony. Sometimes it's seen as equaling out of the property settlement (thus you each are eventually getting the same pension benefit so it's a wash and irrelevant to alimony) and other times alimony is seen as giving the lower income and often the previous stay at home spouse a leg up for a few years to get themselves acclimated and working to their potentials. It's interesting to me ...but not my specialty.

Mr. Wondering,

Thanks for taking the time to chime in on my thread, it will be interesting how to see how it all turns out. I'll have to post the end result of this but don't hold your breath, I'm months away from court.

SC

3/16/10 is when your signature says the divorce was filed and you registered here in 2008...

you've been at this battle a looooooong time.

Godspeed,

Mr. W

MrW, SC is NOT in a no-fault state. TN is one of the few states where adultery is still allowed as grounds for divorce. I am also in TN, and in my divorce, my WstbXH had not yet had sex with the OW, so I used "Inappropriate Marital Conduct" as grounds. He has since had sex with her and I have proof, but there has not been a good enough reason to modify the grounds.

If SC has good evidence about her adultery (and I think he has mentioned having emails, etc.) then he may be able to have her actions taken into account when setting alimony. From what I have read, and what my attorney has told me, if the marital estate is fairly large, the division tends to be pretty close to 50/50, even where one spouse has clearly caused the divorce.

SC, in my situation, my husband's 401K was just added to the list of marital assets. Do you have a military pension? If your attorney does not have much experience with your type of pension you should ask him if he is open to a consultation with someone who is more knowledgeable. Maybe a military lawyer?

Kirby,

I was WAY TO SMART to have stayed in the reserves and got my military retirement.......

At the time it seemed a wise choice to commit the time to the family, especially since my employer had a industry leading pension

22 years later and post company bankruptcy, the pension is worth about 30% of what is was projected to be and is now frozen,(and now I get half of that) and I'm way to old to go back in and finish my military time.

Just another one of my WISE decisions...... actually I don't regret the commitment to the family, I have a great relationship with my kids, and they know their dad loves them.

I meet with my lawyer tomorrow, and will talk the pension thru some, and I'll see if I can set up a consultation with that Atty in Calf. I've spent most of the weekend looking on line for something in Tennessee law about imputing my pension income and haven't found a thing.

The PI that has the WW's laptop and is doing the forensic work on it has had it for over 2 weeks and has going quite on me not returning my calls..... so I'm a little worried right now.

I would prefer to use the info right off her computer. I'll just have to wait and see. 2k ought to produce something....... I've just got to keep the faith

SC, I know lots of women who would be thrilled to have a husband who was committed to the family. I think you made a good decision, and it's wonderful that you have such a good relationship with your kids. That's more important than money.

Good luck with the computer expert.

Not to much profound to say,

Had my meeting with my lawyer, He doesn't think I have a prayer of counting my pension against the WW's alimony.

Talked with the PI working on the computer forensic work, he said they have not found anything juicy yet.

I go back to lawyer next Monday with computer stuff/ emails and videos to complete the package to send to the dark side.

Then I get to run-away by going back to work for a 10 day trip.

Not having the best of days, I've spent hours reading through court opinions, hoping to find something supporting my position on my pension account. As I read more, I find that I'm in the minority, that most cases that are referenced involve infidelity on the husband's part, most involve child support, and None have what I'm looking for.

The part that depresses me the most is the court's obsession with the economically disadvantaged spouse being protected, that their lifestyle not be effected if possible. Long discourses on how to accomplish this are made. To include the obligatory spouse (that would be me) paying alimony for the rest of there lives, that it should be adjusted higher if I should happen to improve my earnings, that my potential future earnings should be considered and, if necessary, a redistribution of wealth be made.

So, my worst case scenario is after splitting our assets, including my retirement 50/50, I have to give the WW half of my income to keep her comfortable, she in the meantime is free to earn what she pleases easily finding herself is a better position than me financially, and if I start to dig out of my hole she can ask the court reevaluate my assets and take more of them.

I know it's not going to be that bad, I'm just ranting.

The WW is doing some things that are to my advantage and when we go to court, that I hope the court will recognize them. I know it is not all hopeless, it just seems that way for me sometimes.

Hey SC,

Sorry you're having some difficult days.

I understand your resistance to not wanting to pay your wayward wife alimony. Unfortunately, the courts rarely care if someone is wayward or not. They try to equalize the assets and debts, not realizing you cannot equalize the destruction to finances and lives caused by the waywards. The waywards just keep "winning", to quote the wayward Charlie Sheen.

It is surprising to me that the courts would consider taking any future higher earnings of yours, and distribute that to your stbx wife as well. It seems unlikely to me, but I wonder if this is only in cases where there is permanent alimony?

In my state, Florida, the statutes states (paraphrasing) that they try to sustain the "current" living standards, and not the furture standards you may be able to provide later.

What state are you in? (You do not have to answer that of course.)

The Great state of Tennessee


I think my only hope is that my WW is a serial cheater, that coupled with her intentional underemployment I hope will sink her in court.......... time will tell

Ok, so you can file for fault in Tennessee, correct? If so, then I do hope that the proof you have will help your case.

If your wife is not working around 40 hours a week, is she doing anything else to further her career in any way?

MyJ,

I have filed for fault, adultery , and yes I have proof, plenty of it. The real problem is the courts really consider adultery an after thought in the D process. The marital assets are 50/50.

Alimony is figured on about 14 factors, the primary is the disadvantaged spouse (my WW) need and my ability to pay.

Way way way down the list at the bottom is fault.

So my focus has to be proving my WW's intentional underemployment and her earning potential.

I also hope that the fact that my WW is a serial cheater will play to my favor. Time and the judge will tell on that one.


The WW is a massage therapist, has her own business but is working less than 30 hrs a month at it and has not hired replacement therapist as they have quit over the past year. She had 4 and now is down to just her.

The WW answer to getting on her feet is she has enrolled in the only web based 4 year law school in the country at 1k a month. She started it in January. Has paid for it so far from a birthday gift from her parents.

SC, I hope the judge is reasonable. If your WW had a business with 4 employees and has neglected it so that it is no longer profitable, she needs to go back to working on her business.

And, IMO, online law school at age 50 is just plain goofy.

Yep,

I have to agree and when she get the degree the only place she can practice is in CA. for 5 years I think, might be 10, before she can go else where in the country, The POSOM lives in CA with his wife, so this all fits into the WW plan somehow in that crazy place they go in their minds.

And by the way it's mid night why arnt you in bed......

I am in bed. I'm just still awake. It's called the divorce sleep schedule.

Well, I'm given it up.

meet with the lawyer tomorrow to finalize the discovery package.

Then the WW get to see the video for the 1st time. That ought to shake things up in fantasy land.

Later.....

SC, I read through your story the last two days, finished reading late last night, after this last comment by you.

Just wanted to say I hope the news is good for you today, you deserve some.

Well it went well with the lawyer, sounds like it will be another few days until he sends the package over to the dark side. It's a war chest that I started over 4 years ago with the 1st video and PI report.

I didn't start diligently keep a journal until 2 years ago. Wish I had started that earlier, It's a prospective that I had at the time that I was focused on saving the marriage and thought I was making progress. The lessen learned is to start that as soon as you see there is a problem in your marriage, The journal can be as much a story of recovery as it is a record of the efforts you have put into saving the marriage and the documentation of your WS's bad behavior.

For all my talk I haven't gone to court yet, I am still a work progress and will only know if my efforts were worth it after the judge rules. Like anything important, it is a task that has to be your top priority, NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR DIVORCE LIKE YOU DO. I know that in spite of the thousands that my lawyer will get that he doesn't care like I do, His life is not on the line.

Even now I already see that I have loads of prep that I need to do to get ready for court. It is my goal to make the court see each point of law concerning alimony and based on my evidence can rule in my favor. I know that isn't going to just happen, I have a uphill battle to fight.

As far as I know the WW has no idea what I'm throwing at her.
I would love to be a fly on the wall when the WW sits down with her lawyer and they look at what I have. Who knows, it may rattle her and loosen her up some on her demands...... one can hope.

Even with all of it, it still comes down to simply the exposure of the A's, and that is the last thing the court looks at.

As it turns out the journal I have kept of my WW's work history, may be one of the most important things I have done.

Well it's off to work I go, be nice to get a vacation from the house. Funny it's just the opposite of how I use to feel. Used to couldn't wait to get home.

Good to hear. I got a sense a acceptance, a sadness in your post. Don't lose the fighting spirit now. Believe me there are plenty of decent women out here cheering on the good guys...as there are men cheering on the good women.

This line I quoted, the first two actually, but this one hit me like a ton of bricks. My 'journaling' consists of misc word files scattered all over my computer, nothing concrete and nothing in one place, just thoughts written, and files saved. (My RL paperwork isn't in much better shape unfortunately). So yeah, these first two are so very important. (says my hindsight yet to see).






now, for flies...I think her lawyers office would need a major exterminatiion done if people could be flies. you would have a great back up squad, we could all dive bomb her....hmmmm, the movie birds....by fly.





this is great...


Not much I can say here other than, I understand.

SC, I hope that after her attorney gets a look at all of your evidence, that he will advise her to try mediation again. It sounds like you have excellent proof of her neglect of her business, and your WW surely doesn't really want all her vile actions to become a matter of public record.

I went to my local court yesterday to observe the non-contested divorces since my mediation did work out. In those divorces, only the person who filed has to go, and they spend about 5-10 minutes testifying and then the divorce is granted. That's a much better scenario.

Good luck and have a safe trip.

Heard from the dark side yet?

Nope not yet,

I touched base with my lawyer this afternoon, he wants to talk to me one more time before he sends of the package. I would guess the Dark side gets it Thursday or Friday for sure.

Not sure how long after that it will be before the WW gets called into her lawyer's office. I would like to hope by this time next week, the WW will sitting down reading her own words of her adultery, and watching herself on video.

As much as I hope to have the WW react to all this, I am trying to expect not reaction at all or at best just her being pissed off.

Best part is just that it is a small step forward to the eventual end.

If you have that long a list, expect her to get pissed off. She will most likely try to have some of it declared as inadmissible, etc, etc. Anything to make you spend more on your lawyer and wear you down.

I wonder why your lawyer needs to talk to you again. He needs to get her done!

And expecting no reaction from the WW is probably good thing. But I can't help but think she will feel something negative when she sees it all.

I agree. If you can demonstrate that she HAS the earning capability and is purposely earning less to increase an alimony award, you'll be in much better shape. What type of alimony are you looking at? From what I understand there are four types in Tennessee.

SC, are you still living with your WW?

I started to say that you'll probably never really know her response, but then I remembered that last I heard y'all were still living together. At your next meeting with your lawyer, I'd suggest that you discuss separation with him. Living apart will help your recovery.

Oh, and yeah, she's going to be angry. Very angry. 'Specially when her attorney explains how your records will affect her case.

Thanks for all the input,

I know that no matter what they do to declare some of the war chest inadmissible, there is enough that will slip thru that will leave no doubt in the court's mind as to her conduct.

I spoke to my lawyer today only for about 5min he only had one minor question, he wanted to double check with me tomorrow before I get out of cell coverage for the next couple of days, His assistant is labeling all the stuff, I expect it has taken hours. the pile was over 6 inches high. My lawyer has til the April 1st to turn it over I hope he's ahead of that.

Princes,

Got to agree with you on the employment issue, non of my journal was submitted in this round, we are planing to get a vocational expert and coupled with her employment history I think I will have a strong case to show her earning power.

Kirby,

Yes we are still in the house together, neither of us is willing to give up the marital home high ground. My way of coping is to runaway as much as I can. I got in 25 days skiing with my boys this season (a record for me) and am planning a cross county bike ride starting in late May and between that and work I bet I don't spend more then a few weeks at the house between now and October. I'll just be in and out as necessary

Don't know that it's a good plan but it's the best I've come up with so far.

I just could not imagine having to live with my stbx while going through a divorce. I am impressed with how much you've been able to stay away as much as you have though.

My J

I guess that's why we are all different, I would have never thought that I would be in this position 4 years ago. Even though we can talk civilly I do my best not to relive what she has done to me. Usually I can pull that off, I think I am so emotionally scared that all this stuff just rolls off me now.

I do know that my situation is a little different than most. Since my job requires me to be away from home, when I have time off I have the freedom to find any excuse to run away, the kids are all out of the house now and it's easy to find an adventure to pursue. I have enjoyed finding things to do away from home.

I have taken all my vacation in June and plan to start the last week of May in Oregon and am going to ride my bike to North Carolina, one of my DS will go with me, and I may have 2 other college kids tagging along. I'm calling it my divorce recovery ride. It was a trip that the WW and I were going to do after I retired.

Between now and then I'm busy getting ready and trying to get some time in on my bike.

On the D front....... nothing new to report other than I came home from my trip the WW is friendly and obviously has not been to her lawyer yet.


I plan to escape to Colorado to ski a few days with my boys this week.

I wonder if it's because men can "compartmentalize" thier thoughts. Regardless, I'm glad you're able to talk civilly, AND detach yourself from the past.

My husband and I were pretty much able to do that, talk civilly that is, the last two months he was here. But all I did was go cry by myself on a daily basis (and for a month after he left), so he felt more comfortable leaving. "He didn't want things to get harder". Like they weren't going to get any harder while he divorced me, would just as well let me sink or swim financially, and trade me in for a newer model. He just didn't want to be here while he made things harder.



Road trip!

Do you have a smart phone, so that you can update us with pics along the way?

I would love to go on some adventures, out of town on a long road trip. Great distractions I'm sure. I'm glad my stbx is not living here, because I cannot afford to get away right now. My goal is to do that in the future. I am thrilled that you get to.



Yay!!

Well I guess it's time for an update,

My lawyer sent the package to the dark side on Apr 1st,

I came home from my trip and then took off to ski with the boys for a couple of days.

This weekend my twin DD's came home for their 22nd birthday, and we had a party for them, everybody had a good time.

I couldn't stand it so I finally ask the WW if she had talked to her lawyer, and she said she had.

No reaction at all, if anything she is acting warmer to me. I would like to think that she has not been to his office and seen the video and emails yet. I just can't imagine not reacting to it.

I learned a couple of years ago now not to have expectations from the WW. Sometimes she would come around and respond in what I would consider normal given the facts, and other times like this one, nothing at all. She is a cool player.

I am disappointed, I had hopes that she would react to it and would look to compromise on the alimony issue.

What I do know is it will end..... it may be another year from now but it will end............

Hang in there. You can get through this.

And, yes, it will take longer than it ought. Just keep enjoying all those great kids of yours as often as you can.

SC,

Any update? How are things going?

Kirby,

I think your the one we should be concerned with I hope you haven't floated away, and that your place is on high enough ground.

Thanks for checking on me, not to much to tell right now, still no reaction from the WW on what I sent over, it took my lawyer another month to send our questions over to her side. Their side got them the 1st of this month. I expect it will take a full month or more to get response.


I expect now that if I'm lucky we will do our depositions in late July or more likely August. Then maybe I can get a court date set before the end of the year.

Now on the the more fun part of my life, I mentioned that I am planning a bike ride across the US this summer, I have taken all my vacation for the year in June and when I finish the work trip I am on will load up and fly to Oregon to start the ride with my DS23 and one of his roommates from college.

There is a web site for everything and of course there is one for cyclist keeping journals about their adventures. I have a journal started there and you can follow my crossing there.
crazyguyonabike.com and search for "My TransAmerica with Sherpas West to East". I will be doing daily updates on that site , should be fun.

Don't worry about me. I'm on high ground.

The kids and I went to play tourist on Sunday. I have a lovely shot of the corner of Beale and Riverside - under water.

You sound like you're in good spirits. Good for you! I'll go check out your cycle journal.

Good to see you're doing well, sc. Enjoy that ride, you crazy guy on a bike!

And Kirby, I miss Beale! I need to make it back down to M-Town one of these days... After the water receeds of course.

Well come on over. I'll buy you a drink. (I'm old enough to be your momma, so don't anybody think anything weird.)

LOL.

If I ever get down, I'll let ya know. And I'll reciprocate.

Wow SC. That is going to be some trip. Sounds adventerous and for me, probably would be calming. Do check in with us please while you're gone.

Yep,

Pretty excited about getting started,I've got 2 days to get my act together. Tons left to do I've got a list going and seem to be running out of time.


I went to my home church that I grew up in today, they were having a 100 year celebration.
I was part of a very active youth group back in the 70's and they had a meet a greet for us.

I got to see tons of old friends that I hadn't seen in over 30 years, it was a real flash back. What struck me most was the spirit in that church, I was instantly home again, such a contrast from the environment I have been living in for the past 4 years with the WW.

Little up date,

Nothing on the D front, may have depositions in July, August hopefully for sure,

I'm in Missoula Mt on my TransAmerica bike ride with DS23 and his college roommate. It's going great was in snow today on the Lolo Pass.

800 miles in on the 3800 total and not tired if it yet.

Very cool SC. Very cool. Thanks for the update.

I spent the past two full weekends learning how to sail on my own. Great thing to do to forget about my world being turned upside down, if even for a day.

I hope your trip is fun, challenging, healing, and safe.

Take care, and keep us updated.

Yep,
Have to agree, not sure how healthy it is but is sure seems to be working for me. Can't say I go all day not thinking about it but I am getting extended periods of blissful relief. In Twin Bridges MT.
Should make it into Yellowstone in a few more days.

SC

Your not still biking are you?

Just wonder whats up? Haven't seen anything from you in a while.

Hope all is well.

nESRE

He's still biking. Lots of cool pictures. I think it's okay to post the website, because I got it from the thread here.

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?o=RrzKj&doc_id=8264&v=3O

Thanks Kirby

I must have missed this.

Gonna take some time and look it over.

nESRE

Kirby, I was wondering how he was doing, thanks, I missed that link too! I was reading, and have to say....so far? the best part?

BUSTED!!

That was hilarious! Will have to keep reading to see more! Sounds like one heck of a trip!

Well the vacation is over for now. Made it to Saint Louis. Rode a little over 3000 miles on my bike. It's been a wonderful trip so far. I have to say that I know I go for longer and longer stretches of time without thinking of the WW or the OM or the D, and that is a great place to be. I think I've had hole days of not thinking of my WW at all, which is kind of amazing. Most of the days it was just a passing thought, but at other times I would brood over it for hours as I rode along.

That didn't happen often, thankfully and the real reason for the trip in the first place seems to be what has happened, which was a chance to get a new prospective on my life and not be consumed with the disaster that my M and my life had become. I know I'll be able to move on and really look forward to it.

I'm back at work, off on a good trip and won't be home for awhile. Later I'm going to try to add up the days I actually spent at home over the last year. I think it will be a good number.

Nothing new on the D front, suppose to have depositions later this month but I know it will fall thru and move to August at best. I do need to do a better job of pressing my lawyer to make that stuff happen.

Sounds like an awesome time, SC. I know what you mean about the thinking on a long ride. I have the same situation on long runs. Thoughts come, and I either have to shake them off, or deal with them. I'm getting better at doing both.

Your ride really resonates with me. I've had some (very unrealistic) ideas of buying a small RV after I sell my house, cash out my retirement savings, and just hitting the road with no particular destination in mind. Kind of like an old Easy Rider, except without the drugs and long hair.

Maybe some day. Right now, it's time to deal with the things at hand. As funny as this may sound, not having worked for 16 months, I am looking forward to taking my first real vacation once I land a regular job!

Well it time for a update such as it is

The WW says she gave everything ask for months ago to her lawyer, my lawyer still has not received half of it and finally filed a motion with the court to force the documents. If we do not get a response in 30 days we get to push our way into court, not quite sure what that means except it should play in my favor. I have no doubt that they will respond by the deadline.

Still in the house with the WW

Still getting along and I try not to think to much when I'm home

The Bike ride continues and I have ridden from St Louis to my farm in Tenn, got in Saturday, it took a 7 days, that brings the total miles to over 3600 so far, I have a work trip starting the Sept 1, when I get back from that I'll be riding to the Atlantic Ocean to finish the ride. That ought to keep me out the house thru mid October. Then reality should be setting in. I would hope that deposition would be happening by then

Emotionally, I feel ok most of the time, I know it will be ruff when we finally start to clean up the house to sale it, but till then I'll keep my head in the sand.

SC, it's time for a

It's time to stop "getting along." Of course you get along right now. She has a roommate who pays for everything and puts NO expectations on her. She can run around doing whatever she wants and having sex with whoever she wants. She gets to go on bike trips you with and the kids and all those hot young guys. She gets to pretend that she is happily married. She probably tells people that y'all have an "open" marriage.

She is not cooperating with the divorce because she's having a grand old time being a married single woman. I'm glad your attorney is finally forcing the issue.

I know you're probably not there often, but you need to get out of that house. You will not even begin to recover until you have physically separated from your WW.

Yep Yep Yep

I would like to think that I'm in a better place than I was a year ago. A year ago I was still trying to get the mediation set up. Kirby, I have to agree with you that I need to get out of here and get this D over with.

I had a meeting with my lawyer today, and believe it or not some progress is being made. He filed a motion to force the discovery and to set a trial date. I spoke with the bless her heart STBX WW before I went to see the lawyer this morning and she said she had spoke with her lawyer and everything was fine on on their side......... mean time my lawyer tells me he sill has not heard a peep from the dark side.

On the 15th at 9am we have a hearing before the judge to set the trail date. So something is going to brake loose. My lawyer is convinced that in the next 48 hours that the dark side will start talking before the hearing, regardless I should have a court date by the end of this week.

Things have been so painfully slow that I'll believe it when I see it. When I'm at work I'll have an event happen while we're trying to get pushed off the gate. Looking at the issue I can see the solution and see that it should be resolved in minutes if handled right. Then you can just see it spiraling out of control and be helpless to fix it. So there you sit as sometimes hours slip by. Then finally by some miracle the pieces fall in place and suddenly your on your way. It is such a feeling of freedom to finally escape the trap you have been snared in. Then like being in light speed your on your way.

I have a feeling that this has the potential to be that way.
When we get that trail date it should force events to happen at a accelerated pace, and compared to the grind I've been enduring it should seem like light speed.

My lawyer assures me that I don't need to be in court Thursday, that it's just a scheduling matter and I'm not expected to be there.

So it's back on the bike for me, My DS and I had made it to the house in Tennessee last month, over 3500 miles so far. I now have the time off to finish the ride to the Atlantic. We plan to ride out of town on Wednesday morning with 2 other college kids in tow that are friends of DS. Should make it to the coast in about 2 weeks. I expect the college boys to give up at that point, I'm planning to ride for another week up the coast to Kitty Hawk

At that point reality will set in because I haven't made plans to escape from the house after that yet. I really need to spend some time at home to start throwing out my junk and getting myself ready to sale the farm.

Ok, here's the tidbit I trying not to read to much into.

While I was gone on this last trip the Bless her wayward heart STBX cleaned our master bath. ( I'm sleeping in the master WW has moved to the guest room) We for years had some pictures on the mirror of us together I have 3 on my side she had 2 on hers. About the time the A's started the pictures on her side "fell" down, she never made an effort to put them back up. I never took down the ones on my side.

She did an excellent job cleaning the bath it looked great, and to my surprise the pictures are back up...... What's up with that !!!!!

She has made no attempt to reconcile and I really don't expect her to, and YES I know exactly what my response will be so you can relax.

I'm glad you'll be out of there again for awhile. I'm glad you're getting a trial date. And, yes, you're right, once you're finally divorced you will feel an immense sense of freedom.

Be careful on your bike trip, and I hope your lawyer can finally get things moving.

I just finished reading all your posts and i am a Bit confused Do your daughters know that your wife had a PA with the other man and are still friends with Him and if that's the case How has that affected your relationship with them and how do they justify Their friendship with him

Mitts,

Yes my DD's were told of the A right away, they were upset, I assumed they would naturally sever their relationship with the POSOM but found out later that they had not.

I did confront the DD's over this and it has strained our relationship. They are always quick to tell me that they love me when we talk, I haven't confronted them about their continued contact with the POSOM lately,

I called them both right after I filed and told them that their continued relationship with the POSOM was a contributing factor in their parents D. That it emboldened their mother to continue her relationship with the POSOM

So like any affair does it leaves a wake of destruction that moves thru multiple lives, damage that we can see and some that is covered. My relationship with my DD's will always be affected by what they have done. Their reasoning on why they continue to talk to this guy is beyond my comprehension. If I pause to think about what they have done by this it upsets me greatly, not only for me but for them as well, I worry that their moral compasses are so askew that they make fundamentally poor decisions in their lives and not know it.

SC! How are you? How 'bout an update?

I walked in the door yesterday afternoon 4761.9 miles give or take a few tenths. I'll have the rest of the journal done over the next few days.

As for the D front we have depositions scheduled FINALLY on the 15 Nov and trail date of 9 Jan 12 (that's just a couple of months shy of 2 years since I filed) But finally feel some progress is being made.
I'll be busying myself prepping for the depositions and actually cleaning house of all my junk so I'm ready as I can be to pack up when the time comes next spring ( that's when I anticipate selling the farm)

Should be an interesting couple of months


The bike trip ????? Epic !!!!

Good to here from you Kirby

Thread replaced at member's request.

Thanks JustUss

I guess I'm ready for an update........

For those of you not keeping track, I filed for D coming up on two years ago, had our waste of time mediation a year ago, then went to discovery, that drug out for ever and finally got traction when my lawyer filed with the court to force it.

It was when I finally got the WW's stuff that I saw that she was onto my thread and so that's why I had it pull awhile back.

And to my WW if your reading now enjoy, you pride yourself on always growing and improving yourself and I can think of no better place than this site for you.

OK.....back me. The STBEXWW and I after splitting everything 50/50 came to an agreement on alimony that I have to pay her. so no deposition, no day in court.

My lawyer said that if both sides were pissed about what they got that it was probably fair, I would have to add "in the court's eyes".

I now expect that we will appear in court on Jan 9th and nod to the judge and that will be it. Then I will be in go mode getting the farm ready to sale by spring and complete the division of assets.

Emotionally, I have alot going on in my head, at times I excited that this chapter in my life is finally coming to a close. As I writing this the STBEXWW was just getting ramped up with the 1st A that I found out about 4 years ago (might have been 5years) what ever it is it has been a long road. When I think back to that first discovery and how devastated I was, and how thankful I am to be pasted that pain now. I now go weeks at a time not speaking to the WW, and am better for it. I would like to think I will be able to handle having occasional contact with her as necessary for the kids, and family issues. I know I am willing to go into a real plan-B if necessary so I'll be playing that by ear for the time being.

I spend alot of my energy worrying over the finances, sale of the farm and how that will go. I no I shouldn't worry I should just do the actions necessary to make it all happen. Right now I'm in a cash flow crunch with spring tuition due in a month or so and don't want to borrow anymore if I can help it.

Anyway enough rambling for now, I've got plenty of details that I'll think of to share later.

T-Minus 39 days and counting

I'm both happy and sad for you. It's sad to see a long marriage end, but it's wonderful to be out of a bad marriage and moving toward a better life.

Kirby,

Thanks for checking in,

Got one more tidbit, my lawyer says if we can get our act together and get the settlement hammered out might be able to put it before the judge by the end of December.

Sure be nice to have this behind me, looks like I'm getting close

Check with your tax advisor to see if you want to file jointly for 2011 or not. Some people put off the divorce until January because they can save some money that way.

I thought of something else you need to consider. Even if your kids are "adults" if they are still full-time students they are considered dependents on your taxes. You need to put something in your marital dissolution agreement about who gets to claim the kids.

Thanks
I've got a draft going had not thought to add the kids, deduction to it. I'll ask my accountant about the tax thing Monday

Hey SC

Good to see you back up and running again. Got a little worried when I saw your thread gone.

From what you say looks like the end is near for you soon. Good to hear. You have been at it a long time.

Got the house sold in Oct in my sitch. Good and bad. I just wanted out and to be done. Probably could have gotten more $$ if I would have hung on. Just didn't want to stay in her playground. Hope your market is good when yours is ready.

Have been in Plan B with WW and only come out when something legal needs to be done. I think the legals are over now. I keep my R with my children between me and the kids now since they are both adults. Don't want to be drug into any of her drama she calls "life". Kind of peaceful in the 2 bedroom 2 cat apartment.

Is your WW still at the house?

Hope to see you around more in the future.

nESRE

Nesre,
Good to hear from you. I've been wondering how things have worked out for you. Sounds like your divorcing as well. The last I read on your thread I got the impression you were hanging in there still but the WW wasn't behaving. I know you have gone the extra mile and then some with her.


I would have never thought I would have wanted space from my wife. Use to pine to get home to her and the family. Now I look forward to not seeing her or speaking to her. I'm sure that your better for being in your Plan-B. I hope you can continue to find peace in it.

We are still in the house together but I do my best to find excuses to run away, and find I'm better for it.
I'm in the final countdown. 33 days and counting. But that will not be the end. We still have to sale the major assets and I expect that if the farm doesn't sale by May we will auction it. We will be working together to get the farm and house ready to sale so I'll be in continual contact with the WW for the next few months. This will be a change for me because it will force me to work with the WW more than I have in the past 2 years.

But I can see the light at the end of the tunnel and it's getting brighter !!!!

Keep focused on that light. There is an end. Finish strong so you will be able to look yourself in the mirror and have no regrets what so ever about the path your on.

Will catch you later.

nESRE

My first attempt at a video post hope it works

Merry Christmas !!!!!!!

Here, I embedded it for you. That dog is pitiful in an adorable kind of way.

Thanks Kirby,

Time for a quick update

I went to my lawyer's office today for a little post Christmas cheer. A quick $400 dollars later we were close to reading thru the WW's settlement proposal. I think it should come together by Jan 9, (FREEDOM DAY). So that's 13 days and counting !!!!!!! I am excited to finally be putting this now 4 year nightmare (since 1st D-day) behind me.

My best bud keeps telling me I'm where I should be emotionally and I lean heavily on that, I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop and it hasn't yet. Part of it may be that we are in the same house together, and even though we live separate lives I'm sure I still get some comfort knowing where she is.

We have a plan for her to move out of the house around March 1st, or before if the renters we have in our old farm house move out earlier. Mean time we begin rehabbing our house to get it ready for sale. I plan to stay in the "big house" probably until it sales if we can find a way to stage it with me living here.

The WW has been cooperative, not to much to complain about except she still is talking to the POS. I got to thinking about that a little today and it drug me down. Even as I write this I can see that the bad times I have are less frequent and not as deep as in the past. I don't ever second guess the decision to D. I know it was the only option left for me.

Had a pity party at the Christmas eve service, my twin DDs are home from school, they have sided with their mother on the atheist thing. I would not be to worried over a college kid questioning their faith but with the WW encouraging them every step of the way it worries me. Anyway I'm at the service, sitting in the pew that my family used to occupy every Sunday, and I was very lonely. I hated my girls not being willing to tag along with their dad. I'm trying not to put to much pressure on them,and I didn't want to beg. I managed not to cry to much during the service.

OK, "enough of that", as my brother would say. I've got a confession to make. I went on match.com to have a look see, I didn't want a profile on line but as I answered the questions I had to the next thing I knew I had a profile up on line. Now before you knock me out I haven't paid anything yet so I can't respond to anybody even if I wanted to. I promise I want pay up until after the 9th.

Not to sure if I'll do it then either, it was pretty scary looking at that site, given I haven't touched another woman in over 30 years, I'm more than just a little apprehensive. The one thing I'm sure of is I'm still screwed up in the head and it will probably take a couple of years to untangle things. It would be nice if God would drop that girl in my lap and I wouldn't have to go find her.

SC congrats on the 9th

4years of trying to pull a mule gets anyone a medal.
holiday time sucks any way you slice it, it just ain't the same..

Cheers for u man.

In my opinion, it's not a big deal to go on Match to look--as long as you're not doing anything more than looking. I did that a long time before my divorce was final. I didn't put up a picture and I've never paid any money even though I am now free. I decided that until I was sure I was ready to date that I wouldn't join any kind of dating website, but I wanted to look at what's out there. After my youngest child turns 18 (in 2 1/2 years) I'll go looking for a man, but I'm hoping that God will drop one in my lap before then, too. Whatever you do, you need to wait until you're no longer living with your WXW, and it would be better if you've been separated for a year before you begin to date. I know that sounds like a long time, but you need to experience all the holidays, birthdays, etc. on your own. If you can't learn to be alone, you will be tempted to fill that empty space with just anybody, instead of the right somebody.

If you're hoping that God will give you your next wife, you also need to stop thinking about finding a woman and concentrate on following God. Get more involved with your church. Find a good sunday school class. Join a men's prayer group. Instead of looking for a good woman, work on being a good man.

You know, SC, I've seen pictures of you and I know what you do for a living. You're a tall, attractive man with a good income. You seem to have a zest for life. You won't have any problems finding another wife.

Kirby ,

Thanks for the input, I'm always looking for a way to justify my actions, I guess we all do to some extent. In that vane I've been hardly spending anytime at home and when I'm there I do my best to find something to do that keeps me away from the WW as much as possible. All though I'm no where close to a true Plan-B I am keeping my distance, and have been since I filed going on two years ago.

I know I'm not ready for a committed relationship, I see that still years off if ever. I've got a trust issue that I know will loom over me for years to come. I do think I would like to put my toe in the water and try some social dating, really looking for some company to start with.

"What's her face" should be out of the house in a couple of months and in the mean time I'll be working hard to get our house ready to sale.

Emotionally, as I look back to where I was 4 years ago after the 1st D-date, I know I've come light years from that. It in someways seams like a life time ago, and as pain full as the 2nd D-date was, I was still callous from the 1st one, and was not as deeply effected. So now as years of my life have been devoted to saving this dead marriage, I am anxious to have a girl look at me, smile and enjoy my company.

For me, I am more worried about Christmas than any other holiday. I have spent a few of them away from home and always hated it. Now that the kids have flown the coop, it's a little easier than it would have been if they sill lived at home. I had multiple offers from friends to spend Christmas with them this past Christmas, nice to know I've got options.

I've kept my wedding ring on, have been planning my "Big event" in court to hand it to the EX as I walk out, reality is she may not even be there. After wearing it for 29 years, it has worn a grove into my finger that will take months to wear off. I don't know if I wait until I can't tell it was there before I start dating or not.... it at least gives me something to think about.

It's hard to not get excited about moving on, especially when my WW left the marriage 4 years ago and hardly looked back. I feel like I've waited long enough.

-not sure what exactly you mean here, SC. I can say that I thought trust was going to be an issue when I started dating. Then, after I started getting to know NG I realized it really wasn't the problem I thought it would be. I found it much easier to trust someone who is honest and open and trust-worthy. My bs meter was up for sure; but that doesn't mean you can't trust.

Now, keep in mind what Dr. Harley says about TRUST in LT relationships/marriage. A reasonable ability is what you're looking for - I would expect it will be there with the right person.


opt

Opt, that is so encouraging. My WXH lied to me about so many things for so long that I have wondered if I will be able to trust another man.

I feared the same thing Kirby. My WXH lied to me too...heck he still lies for no apparent reason!, but I now realize that not all men are like that...my dh is very O&H and I cherish that in him. And I trust him. (not to the foolish extent, but I do trust him like I feared I never would be able to)

I think I've got a genuine fear that is imbedded in me now on the trust issue. I had a woman that I had absolute trust in for 25 years blow that right out of the water, and I'm still falling from that blast. Thing is I thought I had chosen well, now as I second guess every decision I made to marry her in the 1st place, I see warning signs that were there.

Dr' H's opinion that we not completely trust our spouses I understand but never would have thought it would be necessary for a healthy marriage. I was of the opposite opinion that blind trust was essential, and I remember the guilt I felt when I first suspected my WW.

Guess we all learn new things, just wish I had figured that one out along time ago. Mean time I'll be holding my cards close to my chest.........

Kirby and I both had long term marriages too SC. I never did blindly trust, BUT MBs taught me how to be smart about snooping and that is when it all fell together for me. Which ended in divorce, but at least I know what my life is now.

One of the things I'm so grateful of is that Dr H's prediction that if you work your Plan-A long enough and the WS doesn't respond, that when you do walk away that you will have "less" regrets and the emotional attachment that you had for your spouse will be diminished to the point that a D will be less painful.

I've got to say that at least for right now that I'm finding that true........ time will tell if I can say that in a year. I'll try to put an update next year on that thought.

SW and Kirby, my trust issue I think will come up late in a developing relationship. IF I ever get serious again, I think that might rear it's ugly head. I know that's were being honest will pay off...... I've got alot to learn about dating

Me, too, Dude. Me, too.

I've been wondering... What's the deal about her hair? (Since you called your thread "I never like her hair anyway.....")

Kirby,

I think her hair is just fine, there have been times over the 29 year marriage that I would have liked a different style......

I think what I was trying to convey was the sentiment that kids will often do which is "I never liked you either"....... done as a way of covering our true emotions which are I really do like you even though you have hurt me. It was my lame attempt at some humor I guess.

Happy New Year !!!

SC

T-minus 8 days and counting

Aren't y'all still in the same house? You should probably figure out now what you're going to do the rest of that day. It could get really awkward. Make plans to hang out with some buddies or something.

I just got home for the week, and I have got to get with my lawyer right away to finish the settlement agreement,so that will be keeping me busy. In the mean time I plan to start the rehab of the house and need to start in my closet with a dumpster. I hope by the end of the week to have made significant progress on the house.

As soon as possible we need to get the house painted and floors done, not sure what else yet, so we can get it listed for sale. If I get bored at all I'll go ski with the boys..... nice to have that option.

I'm not planning to be sitting around after the D on the 9th. LSU plays Bama that night, I'll find some friends to hang with to watch that, as long as LSU beats BAMA I'll be feeling pretty good about it.

T-minus 7

I have planed for along time to hand my ring to the WW as we leave court, I've been waring it the whole time. Not sure if I would just drop it on the table in front of her or hand it to her. Then there's the whole speech thing, I could use some help with that one.

This is what I've got so far.......

1.

2. good luck

3. I will continue to pray for you

4. When your ready God will be waiting

5. I know I did everything in my power to save us, I only wish you would have done the same.

6. We could have grown old together

7. F U ( don't really mean that one)


I've thought of a longer speech and may still come up with one. You'd think that after 5 years since the initial D-date I would have a lot to say, but generally feel shorter is better.

Love to know what you think.

SC

#8. Pawn it and donate the money to your favorite charity.

With over four years into this now your still not going to say anything to educate her.

The organiztion will appreciate it and no foot in mouth syndrome.

Prayin for ya man.

Keep your head held high.

nESRE

Be Clint Eastwood. Walk away confidently and let the only thing she hear be the jingling of your spurs. But seriously, say very little, and let of the rest of your lives do the talking. I'm betting yours will be the more fulfilling.

I agree with nESRE.

In a wedding ceremony, the officiant says something like this: "Wedding rings are an outward and visible sign of an inward spiritual grace and the unbroken circle of love, signifying to all the union of this man and this woman in marriage."

Your wife disdained your marriage and treated you and your family with contempt. She broke her vows and destroyed your marriage. Here's a verse from the Bible for you to think about:

�Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces." ~Matthew 7:6



I just had an idea. In Japan there's a trend to have divorce ceremonies. Part of the "event" is a ritual smashing of the ring with a big wooden gavel. If you absolutely HAVE to give it back to her, smash it or cut it first to represent the destruction of the marriage. But don't tell her anything. Nothing good can come of it.

About a hour ago I had a talk with the WW, we're still trying to get the settlement hammered out. Apparently I left that last meeting on the 7th of Dec with a different understanding of the division of assets than her. So we got some serious distance to figure out.

Anyway in the process of talking it out, I said some things and she responded to them, and I am thinking your right about anything I say effecting her. Any statement would be for my benefit only.

My wedding band is like my Dad's, it is a simple narrow man's band. I know gold prices are way up but I can't imagine the band would be worth much, but I'll check it out........

My dh got $240 for his. Not much, but it was enough to buy his ds a hunting gun. Two birds, one stone and all that.

Funny you should mention that, I just recently bulged the end of my shotgun barrel and need to buy a new one. I had look and the barrel is around the 230-250 range.

Something to think about

SC

nESRE,

Thanks for checking in on me, I hope all in well in your world, I keep hoping you would start a thread over here, I know your doing some good pay back on the SAA side and the newbes appreciate it.

I'm T-minus 4 and counting, I've hit some snags in the settlement, had 3 meetings with my lawyer today and will have a joint meeting with all 4 of us tomorrow. I think we can sort it out, there is one hill I'm willing to die on over my pension, which if I cave on would not only cost me half (which I've already agreed to ) but would further reduce my side so the WW could get the rest of the pension if I die before her........... just not willing to give that one up..... no sir ...... that's just not right!!!!!

Anyway I'm hanging in there and hopeful we can find a solution tomorrow

SC

T-Minus 2

Believe it or not I actually signed a settlement decree after working together with the WW and both lawyers for 5 hours yesterday and all that is left is to stand in front of the judge 8:30 Monday morning, say yes 4 times and no once, then we are done.

Now I have a mountain of work to do to get our house ready to sale, but I have know that all along. Have already started on it, but having 16 boxes packed out of a couple hundred leaves a lot to do. I don't think it will be work I mind and will keep me busy, I do thrive on projects,

So as I get off this computer I'll put my head down on it for awhile

I'm glad y'all got it worked out. Getting the last details hammered out is an exhausting process.

You'll enjoy having something physical to do this weekend, just don't expect to be able to make good decisions. After I moved and finally started working on unpacking, I found boxes filled with the weirdest conglomeration of stuff. Stick with mindless tasks like....umm, raking leaves?

Got the garage to the walls ...... two PU loads to the dump, next the pressure washer goes in...

SC

SC,

You gonna be Eastwood on Monday morning? ;-)

Best as you enter a new chapter of life. Author it well!

Peace.

Just3,

I feel like my life has been on hold for so long. I've got some loose plans, The only firm one is to not get in a committed relationship for awhile, I feel sure that would be wrong for me and her.

I'll do my best to ""Author it well" , I am excited to be moving forward, of course still have to sale the farm and that will take some months to accomplish.

SC

SC,

I know, I know. I'm glad to hear you're taking it slow and not rushing anything. Though I have been lonely and starving for intimacy and affection for several years, I am going to stay away from a relationship too. Instead, I am going to focus on my DD's(9 and 12). They and my job, which is very demanding, deserve my full attention, and I'll have a hard time managing well much else since I'll most likely have full custody.

Whatever you do, go out and make a difference. It's a Wonderful Life is one of my favorite movies, and Socrates words "The unexamined life is not worth living" give us something to contemplate as we search for meaning in this new chapter of our lives. Once again, good luck to you. Carpe Diem!

FREE AGENT ...........

WAAAAAAAAAAAAHOOOOOOOOOOO !!!!!!!!!

Congratulations! You put up with a lot for a very long time.

Now, don't go all crazy.

I got to get crazy a little bit.

I hope as the months go by I continue to feel a since of relief that I do today.

I'll be in a multiphase process of recovery that starts with getting the farm sold. Got a lot done today towards that but it will take months to get everything ready.

Work that accomplishes something I look forward to....... amazing how different my attitude is towards that compared to getting divorced, that was a mountain of work, every bit of it is distasteful. Working on the house is turning something that was beautiful that way again, I can see the fruits of my labor. I have read several threads where guys talked about making the house they kept their own by repainting and redecorating, 9 hrs into my freedom I already get that.

I've been smiling all day, going out with friends tonight to watch LSU - BAMA game, should be fun!!!

Crazy is only okay as long as it's not very crazy.

Also, I'd strongly suggest that you find a DivorceCare group. Many of them are starting about now, and you should be able to find one near you. It's been very helpful in my recovery. Very.

(You might want to change your signature. It still says STBX.)

Kirby,

I've got the signature line fixed......

Had another good day, still feeling great about moving on. Should have the XWW out of the house by 1 Mar.

Got some ladies sniffing around, might have to let one chase me for awhile.

Idjit!

DivorceCare! Get the WXW out of the house! THEN think about dating!

Hey SC

Good to see you made it through to the other side with your head held high.

Give it a little time to make sure this all sinks in.

You have had a long journey. Really take some time for yourself to be totally detached from what was. Remember my X lived with me to after D about 2 1/2 months.. I felt like I couldn't do anything. Felt very strange and awkward even being in the same house.

She would not go away yet would not give up OM. Even got a court order to be in the house when I pushed the issue. I was awarded sole tenancy and she still did not understand it. Any ways I am rambeling and I know its not your story.

The point I am trying to make is as long as your still together in that house "The Shadow" of what was is still there.

Just sayin take care of business first. Plenty of "Ladys" will always be chasing after a man who took the high road throughout all of this. Take care of business so you will be able to clearly weed out any of those that do not shine and be free of "The Shadow".

I went out with groups of single people just to have fun, laugh, and Bull sheet. Felt good just to be out and not involved in or thinking about the M even though I was not with anyone. In retrospect I could just with all the crap I went through. There are plenty of fine "Ladies" out there with morals, values, God, and boundaries that will jump at the chance to be with a guy like you.

Take your time. I agree with Kirby and suggest you at least check out a D support group and see if it fits. IRL you may make some very good friends if nothing else. Never can have too many of those.

Thought about moving over here with the thread but I think I will just update from time to time on my SAA thread, support newbies as much as I can to a certain point, (b/c I went PC) and follow favorites I have come to know. Like you I have also been here a while. I built a good support group around me all along the way so I have been blessed. Also my whole attitude towards life, relationships with family, friends, children, GOD, job, money-pretty much everything has changed over the past few years.

I like what I have going right now-today-this moment. Actually working on short/long term goal list right now. Not too long ago the goal was just to survive the day or week.

March 1 is not far away when you think about where you have been.

Love you Brother. Proud of you

nESRE

nESRE

I know your both right, March 1st will be here before I know it, I have stayed at the house more because of the rehab work we are doing to it to get it ready to sale. I made decent progress on it this week, should have the painters in by the end of next week, floors after that. My hope is to have it done by the end of February if it goes well.

I've decided that I've got to get a "new" car before I can date, the '96 pick up with 237,000 miles in it won't work in most situations. Right now I'm thinking BMW, if I can find one cheap enough. Between that, working on the house and planning my next escape to visit my boys and ski, my mind is pretty occupied.

Still some companionship would be nice, little dinner and movie, with a smiling face and no drama....... wouldn't no how to act. There does seem to be plenty of girls out there, problem is where to start.

SC

SC

Give em all a chance when your out from under the shadow.

I might be interested in the PU though


........99 windstar van...190k....MN salt.....Hot mooochine for the ladies huh.....

nESRE

Gentlemen, a vehicle from the '90s is not the best if you're planning on dating. However, you don't need something too fancy. A bit less mileage would be a good thing, though. You don't want to have a breakdown while you're out.

So on the car front I am still leaning towards a BMW 3 series convertible, slate blue,(It'll bring out the color in my eyes...... that sounds a little???? ) anyway somewhere between a 2002-2006,

I Picked up my date the other night and she steps out her house (looking great)causally glances at my truck and then cheerfully says "lets go in my car"...... I'm in so much trouble!!!!! only difference is I have more money (or at least credit) than I did in high school so it is fixable, I just have to laugh at my self, it hadn't even dawned on me that by beloved truck was a liability. I'm sure she would have climbed in if it was snowing and I could shown off the 4 wheel drive, but no snow in Tennessee to save me on that one.

SC

By the way, for me and my path, with this MB thing has been spot on in my emotional recovery through the D.
Dr H talks about the love bank being empty and having less regrets, for me it has been so true, just down right excited to be finally moving on. no regrets, looking to a future that God will lead me through.

Something like this? Sounds like a good plan. But you'll need to go ahead and get SOMETHING different before you do too much dating.