Hi all,

I have posted in surving the affair, divorcing forums before, so I am not going to rewrite my novels there. I wanted to relay my co-parenting questions to anyone who has experience. I obviously have been doing a poor job according to my ex. So I need help I guess?

The underlying issue is that my ex thinks that I am not supportive of her, and unintentionally a few times I showed contradictions. For instance my son was grounded at Halloween, but I bought him a Halloween gift at the fair we were at. Well,I realized that I shouldn't have done that but it was not like I was intentionally undermining her authority. Things like going to parent/teacher conferences, checking homework, I was a little weak, and I was told so be her. So I have been working on doing all these things better so my kids have two parents that care.

So, every time she has an issue with me, even if I dont agree, I try to correct the issue, because I want to work with her. She tells me, "yeah, but I have to get into this big argument with you to get these things done". I honestly don't argue with her about making changes, just the way she treats me when she does it. Then she replies, "you take everything as a personal attack.". I guess I do because I dont like the way I am being spoken too.

Anyways, that brings me to this morning. She is upset that my youngest son is not having a great relationship with her because he watches, plays, and talks nothing but basketball. He is six and absolutely loves it. She thinks he loves it too much because he doesnt want to do anything else, and she doesnt want to force him, because he will cry and complain, etc. She wants me to reduce how much time he spends playing bball, watching bball, checking out sports scores, etc. She says I dont do anything else with the kids. Well, while basketball is part of our everyday activities, we do go outside (live in AZ), go to the park, do other sports, read, go hiking, play video/board games, etc. She just hears we do basketball everyday, and wants it reduced. So her compromise to me was that we reduce the amount of time to 3 times a week he watched bball. I was ok with that, but told her that I would not force him to stop playing bball. Am I out of line? She sure thought I was.

Does co-parenting mean I have to compromise on everything, especially when I don't want to stifle interests. It feels like I would be punishing him if I told him we need to reduce playing bball. I am just wondering, does EVERYTHING need to be worked out as a co-parent. She is so intent that I want them to have a poor relationship and tells me "that I would not be acting like this if she didnt have an affair and leave". That I would be willing to work with her. I have worked with her on everything, but I dont want to stifle him on this. Am I wrong? Should I reduce this interest? Is it an unhealthy obsession for him at 6 to live basketball. We love basketball as a family, but I am not forcing him to play, I dont even ask. He just goes and plays on his nerf hoop whenever he feel like it.

So, she says I am being unsupportive, and that she is screwed with him because I wont work with her. What do I do?

In addition, she is making threats that I will lose custody, that she has taped conversations, etc. She says she doesnt care for my parenting, so do I need to find a go between for communication, etc. and if so who, a family member (neither side can be neutral)? I honestly feel that I didnt do anything wrong, but will THIS case show that I was not willing to work with her to the extent she wanted hurt me in a custody case later if it ever got that far? Or is she just being ridiculous and out of line over this basketball issue?

Anyways, I would really appreciate comments, constructive criticism, etc. I could be stubborn at times, and if I am wrong here I want to know so I can make sure my son has a good relationship with his mother, no matter how upset we may be at each other. Thanks

AZDAD

I think I posted this in the wrong forum. Can we move it to Divorced/Divorcing? How do I do that? Thanks

Hi azdad.

I have four children - b18, g17, g14, g11.

I'll just start off by saying that I don't think you're wrong, and I don't think it's possible to agree on everything in parenting now that you're divorced - just like it probably wasn't possible to agree on everything concerning parenting when you were married.

I could be completely wrong because I don't know you or your wife, but from what you've written it sounds like she's micromanaging you and your son. It all seems a little over controlling.

Personally, I think it's awesome that your son is active and not sitting in front of electronics all day, which is what I struggle with with our children. iPods, computers, TV and phones.

When I was the main influence in the house, all of that was limited - one hour on the computer, one TV show, the two older ones were to pay for texting. Well, my ex-husband doesn't monitor any of that. They have no bed time, they aren't required to get up in the morning, electronic use is unlimited, and it's very, very frustrating for me. But, none of these are value/character based issues that are causing behavior problems, so I don't push my ex to do things my way.

For me, my relationship with my children is what I focus most on, and the rest of it has to be weighed - is this a hill to die on?

And there are some issues that I'm willing to take a very firm stand on, but it just doesn't happen that often. Yesterday, I did talk to my ex about hygiene - good grief, when did it get so hard to teach children to change their undies and brush their teeth???

I understand that certain issues are important to your wife, but, to me, she's mothering you. Everyone makes innocent mistakes, like the Halloween incident, and people parent differently. You're not her, and perhaps she might be gently encouraged to get over the fact that she can't control every moment in a day.

If it were me, I would be honest with her - in a polite, yet firm way. You said you bow even when you don't agree. And I think it's wonderful that you want to be accommodating, but she needs to flex too.

You're allowed to disagree with her, you're allowed to spend your time your way with your child. Unless it's immoral or illegal, she doesn't get to dictate every move you make.

If your son is being disrespectful to your ex-wife - that's important to address. If your son throws temper tantrums when he doesn't get his way about sports, that's important and should be addressed.

But, IMO, simply having a passion isn't a bad thing, and threatening you with loss of custody because of a sport is pretty ridiculous.

If your ex-wife wants a good relationship with her son then she should make sure she's being the best mom possible. Other than not bad-mouthing your ex to your child, it's really not up to you to see that they have a great relationship. If she's not interested in what he's interested in, that's her problem.

She also needs to understand that she has a boy. And as he gets older, he'll actually need you in a way that he won't need her. Boys need men in their lives. Of course they love their moms, but boys need male role models to show them how to be men.

Just a little clarification...you have primary custody? She has visitation? Do you have joint legal custody? How much visitation does she get?

I have custody of our son and XH gets him about 72 hours a month. He doesn't get to make ANY decisions about our son....I do try to avoid the appearance of alienating him from his son...I would not say we co-parent. We paralel parent.

Oh and her comment about how things would be different if she had not had her affair and left? Ya think! Does she dare to think things will be the same, even with the children? Your former relationship with her is severed. Your only relationship now is that you are both parents of the same children.

Yes. This. I agree. I get so tired of seeing kids glued to electronics.

I tend to forget that people have arrangements like these. Very good questions.

I think it is rare that two people who couldn't stay married can still manage to 'co-parent'. It sounds all warm and fuzzy, but I think the reality is that it doesn't happen all that often. The best I can do is not run over my XH with a car or smash his homewrecking girlfriend's face in with a baseball bat.

We did initially agree that restrictions would follow our son from house to house, but lately I've decided that probably won't work. So without much fanfare I'm discontinuing that arrangement. I parent ds when he is with me (the majority of the time) and I let go of what I can't easily convince XH of when he has our son.

Well, I was referring more to the legal system getting involved and putting restrictions or requirements on one or both parents.

That's what I think of when one parent isn't allowed to make ANY decisions regarding their child.

For us, it's a pretty flexible arrangement, and most of the struggles I have stem from the same issues that led to the divorce - a passive man who tends to make decisions by not making decisions.

Thanks for the replies/questions all. We have joint custody, and equal parenting time on a 2/2/3 day schedule. Biased me thinks she is a little overcontrolling/manipulative, but thats just me. She sent me a text today telling me its over... and that she's sorry because she thinks I am just handling things this way cause I am hurt. I told her I realize its been over for a long time.....but my son's happiness is whats important. I dont want to reduce his interests at all. I want to do my best to make sure we are both good parents.

Azdad,

I have joint custody of two boys, 6 and 10, and have been divorced for 6 months now. Still trying to navigate the waters of "coparenting", but would be glad to share some of my experiences.

Yes, try to be as involved as you can in school, extracurriculars, etc. Work with your exwife on the details.

But, I find it best for each to employ their own parenting style when they have the kids. I would never agree to grounding and other punishment/reward carryover. You discipline them as you see fit when you have them, and let her do the same. You can have them into tiddlywinks when they are with you and if they enjoy it, they can watch TV until their eyes glaze over when they are with her.

I'm guessing your exwife is the same persuasion as mine, not necessarily involving the children, but using them or criticisms of your parenting to get under your skin. How I handle it is to listen to the complaint, thank her for pointing out whatever transgressions/weakness, and say I'll take it under consideration. It's not necessary to apologize, things are going to slip through the cracks every now and then. It's the nature of joint custody. It also does no good to get defensive or get into a battle of who does or doesn't do such and such.

Do what you think is best when they are with you, and try to refrain from criticizing her parenting when they are not. She may not do the same, but just let it roll off you like water off a duck's back.

Excellent, well balanced advice.

why do co-parenting? You are not married. What happens in YOUR home stays in your home and what happens in her home stays in HER home. No more controlling of what you do with your kids on your time.

Ok, so now I am a bit confused. I was always told that co parenting is the best way to parent kids in a divorce. Is that not true? It would be so much easier to do my thing , and her hers, with the exception of school, medical, the important stuff. I read a couple posts where it was suggested that grounding be different in each home. I thought that was a no-no. I thought we were supposed to mirror, and support each other when it comes to parenting.? Like I said it would definitely be easier, but does easier necessarily mean the right thing to do? Wish it did LOL. As for the controlling I want it to stop. I am being threatened with "taped phone calls", or with "Somethings gonna happen soon because you didnt listen to me", probably referring to me losing the kids or something. I dont know, but I figured as a co-parent I would have to deal with this crap for another 12 years. If I dont have to co-parent then woo hoo! LOL. I do want to do whats best for the kids though. Thanks again for all the information.

AZDAD

Azdad,

Each situation is going to be different. Some divorces are so "amicable" and all that that co-parenting is the natural conclusion and if done properly, works great. Hollywood divorce, you know? Reality as your discovering is much different. Perhaps in your case co-parenting isn't realistic. What's going to be best for you AND the kids, this back and forth stuff with your XW or relative peace in your home? Based on what you've said, she doesn't have a leg to stand on, perhaps it's time to call her bluff if you haven't already. You don't have to co-parent to be a good parent.

Travis

Azdad,

I would suggest you do some research on Parallel Parenting. It is an alternative to the fully engaged "co-parenting" model. From a quick Google search.


Do some research, and see if you can't get to the right mix of co-parenting versus parallel parenting with your ex.

FWIW, her threats are largely empty threats. Judges very rarely change the status quo and then only if there is an actual threat to the children. Watching a movie with a bad word in it is NOT going to result in a change in your custody arrangement.

Parallel parenting is what we use with my H's OC. I would never allow xOW to interfere with what happens in our home during our visitation. We do not interfere with what happens in her house either. We often have to repeat to OC that rules in our home have nothing to do with what he is allowed to do at home with his mother. It works and then there is little to no contact between my H and xOW as well. IMHO, your children are better off if you take away the element of unnecessary contact between you and the xW at least until a few years have passed and you can get along better.

We often tell BW's not to allow their SBTX to continue to attempt to control them, I think the same applies to xBH's.

I had to go look up 'parallel parenting' because I'd never heard of it before.

Ours is definitely a more co-parenting situation. There's no anger, arguments, or nastiness between us. We even shared a lawyer and worked through our divorce together.

I think, if you can do it, co-parenting is the ideal - for the benefit of the children. Only speaking from my own experience, our four have adjusted very, very well.

The problem is that AZ is not dealing with a "co-parenting" situation. He's being treated like his child's big brother - baby sitter. This is a total one-sided dictatorship.

AZ is going to have to probably go to a parallel parenting plan and tell XW where to go with her dictatorship. She undermines his parenting at every turn, from what I can see. She doesn't respect him as a parent in his own right and doesn't receive input from him. It's all one-sided.

I acknowledged this in my original post to him. But then he posted again with concerns about parenting styles, so I'm simply sharing my experience.

I agree that his wife is not co-parenting material.

azdad - hey, I'm in az too - My thoughts on this may seem harsh, but I am afraid your son is going to get a very warped image of what family and marriage really mean if you do not put up some boundaries in front of your ex-wife.

I completely agree that her relationship with her son is HER problem. From what you have posted, you would think this woman is still married to you.

What part of "divorced" does she not understand? Or, for that matter, do you not understand?

Married people make plans and decisions together. Married people raise children together.

Divorced people are on their own.

I strongly urge you to look into "parallel parenting" as opposed to "co-parenting". This is just another form of cake-eating for your XWW - still wanting the benefits of marriage (like raising children with a partner) but without those pesky committments.

And please, please read the MB thread below:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2279757&page=1

If nothing else, consider what you are teaching your son if you continue to be "friends" and a "co-parent" with your XWW.

I disagree. I'll be 'on my own' when my children have graduated from college and are 'on their own'.

Until then, my ex-husband and I make decision about finances, holidays, school, etc. that take us all into account.

And it's not about staying friends - we aren't friends. We don't act like we're friends. We mainly communicate through e-mail and texting, and there is no fantasy being perpetuated by anyone that we're just one big happy family.

Isabeau, I think your situation may be more ideal than most. In many cases, divorced parents disagree and often strongly. Your ex may allow something in his home that you would strictly forbid in yours. For example, what if your ex joined some religion that was in opposition to yours and started teaching it to them? You can argue with him all you want, but you're divorced and you don't have a say in what goes on in that house. He could feed them fast food and candy, not enforce homework, have no set bedtimes and allow unlimited tv and video games there and you can't do a thing about it. His right as a father trumps your ideals of parenthood in a judges eyes so unless the kids are in actual physical danger, the law won't help you.

I completely agree with you. And please know that on a day-to-day basis, I don't agree with the way my ex-husband parents.

But, there those of us out there, even if we're in the minority, who manage to get along well enough to make things stable for our children as opposed to creating continuous chaos - that quite frankly stems from ego and pride.

I choose my battles very carefully, and when I approach my ex about a concern I have, it's not about his parenting skills, it's about the children. That's what I focus on. As long as their actions and behavior demonstrate that they're doing well, there are a multitude of issues that I just let go.

It seems the OP and you are in the same boat. The issue is that the XW doesn't handle those disagreements as well as you do. So the question becomes how does OP deal with her?


In order for this model to work BOTH parens would have to feel the way you do. Continuous chaos can be caused by one parent.

By doing what you mentioned and using the parallel parenting model. (And it's kind of like dealing with a wayward spouse. You don't announce the change. You just do. Why bother talking to someone who isn't listening?)

He could also have firmer boundaries and stop agreeing to what he disagrees with. He doesn't have to get angry or nasty. He simply states what his decisions are rather than looking for agreement or approval.

And communicating via e-mail and texts takes the emotion out of decisions and face-to-face confrontations. At least that's how it is for me. When I write an e-mail, I can say exactly what I want to say, and I have the freedom to edit myself as much as necessary.

And, if I were him, I would stop explaining myself. If she criticizes him in any way, I'd just walk away, or say, 'I'll talk to you when you can be respectful', or 'I'll discuss this with you when you calm down.' Once again, not being unkind in any way, but showing that he's a mature adult in control of himself.


Yes, I agree. I said a few posts back that she isn't co-parenting material.

I was reading a really old thread and found some information about parallel parenting and communicating with a difficult ex that might be helpful.

High Conflict Intervention Program - How to "Ex" Communicate

Hi Azdad,

Just wanted to say hello. I haven't really had anything to offer on this subject, because my kid's dad never bothered to parent at all (for the most part) so I didn't have to co-parent.

It seems like you have received some great advice. I wish you and your family well.

azdad, there is no such evidence. "Co-parenting" is a mythological construct of divorce court bureaucrats who don't want any trouble. Dr Harley doesn't advocate "co-parenting" because of the stress it causes. If a couple can't get along well enough to be married, it is unlikely they will get along well enough to "co-parent." 85% of divorces are NOT amicable so it makes no sense to imagine that co-parenting can achieve something the marriage could not.

Co parenting often causes extreme depression and/or stress for some parents, and that is not good for the children. Especially in marriages that ended due to an affair. Everytime the betrayed spouse has to deal with the XWS, it can be traumatic. Being "friends" with a wayward spouse also sends the message to the kids that it is ok to be "friends" with someone who was abusive. Would it be ok to role model a "friendship" with a wife beater? Because an adulterer is just as abusive. What kind of message does that send to kids?

So don't let anyone guilt you into a corner over some false notions of the virtue of "co-parenting." They are not the ones who will suffer, after all. Hang in there, friend, and do what is right for you and your kids.