Hello all,

I am a first time poster on this site.

My wife recently requested a separation about 7 weeks ago and I am in a separate apartment a few miles from our prior home. We were married for 12 years and have two beautiful girls together. We have had no affairs or abuse but I know my failings: I am guilty of disrespectful judgments, selfish demands, being financially controlling, and being emotionally detached. I used to work long hours and I gave whatever I had left to my kids, so she was a distant third on the priority list. In return, she was very hard on me and now says that although she loves me, she is no longer in love with me. She also says she doesn't see us reconciling.

Today, we are to sign the separation agreement, which is going to be very difficult to do. I still very much love my wife and only now have seen the error in my ways.

For the past 5 weeks or so, I have been keeping communications pretty light. Mostly just trying to create positive, light interactions with my wife.

We have a 50-50 visitation schedule but I miss my kids very much. I can't believe I took my time with them and my wife for granted. Now I wish for the life I no longer have.

I believe I know her emotional needs: intimate conversation, passion/adventure, support, and being taken care of. I can't do too much about the last one in my current state but I am trying to figure out ways to hit the others now that we are separated.

We had previously planned to take a romantic getaway in mid-to-late October but are wondering whether it is still the right time for it. My gut tells me to revisit in about 7-10 days. If she isn't up for it, we can postpone. Part of me says that this separation agreement is a big step for her (demonstration of independence) and that once it is past us, there may be an opportunity for progress.

Any thoughts you have would be appreciated. Thank you very much.

Yikes don't sign a separation agreement. One of the vets will be along soon to explain to you what is going on with your wife. In the meantime sit tight and do nothing.

I'm sorry that you find yourself dealing with this.

I know you don't want to believe that your DW may be involved in an affair. But you have to rule out an affair if you want any chance for reconciliation. Have you done any snooping such as looking at phone records?

You sound like you want to save your marriage... move back home. Separation will only drive you further apart.

Thanks for replying.

I don't have any choice about moving back home. She doesn't want me there. I do want to save my marriage but I can only do so much. Ultimately, she has to want to reconcile too.

I don't see much choice in not signing the separation agreement. It is one of the few things I have done that seems to be meeting her needs. I am in a world of hurt right now. It's so hard.

Have you snooped to rule out an affair? Your DW is saying all the right things to make me suspect one.

Leaving your home makes it look like YOU abandoned the family... tt doesn't matter that you left on her request.

I haven't specifically but I don't think she has had one. She has always been very honest with me. Neither of us have, although I have been emotionally unavailable.

I know it may seem that I am abandoning the family but my daughters know that I still love my wife. It's difficult in any case.

No good answers right now.

What I meant to say is that every choice is imperfect.

Sir have you read His Needs Her Needs by Dr Bill Harley?
You need a plan and Marriage Builders is a plan to get your marriage fixed.
It is hard work.
Are you willing to do this?

I have read it and Love Busters. I am trying to avoid the love busters and work on depositing units but it is difficult.

I am willing to do whatever it takes.

Well the first thing you need to do is move back home.
You cannot deposit love bank units while separated.
You need to move back today. When the kids are there.

And you do not sign the separation agreement.
Instead you tell your wife : "I am willing to work with you to create a loving healthy marriage where both of our needs are met".
If she starts complaining offer her a cup of coffee.do not argue with her.

Make sure you move in today while your kids are there. Say you missed them and will never leave them again.

Start packin now if you want to save your marriage

Move back home without warning and tell her that you made a mistake by moving out. You will NOT abandon your family and are willing to do whatever it takes to save this marriage.

You need to find the strength to fight scaredandconfused. 7 weeks of separation have only brought you closer to signing separation papers.

That will only infuriate her. I believe, truly, that signing the separation agreement will give her some relief to consider reconciliation. If I don't sign it, it will send her into an orbit. We are headed for serious drama. I believe I have met some of her needs recently by making this easier on her.

I am in no way giving up on us, however. She has said to her friends that she really needs this. Really needs the papers. Afterwards, she may be willing to consider working together.

I hate this too. My stomach is in knots, I am not eating well, I am having trouble concentrating, but I need to show her that I trust her. I do.

I am just not giving up on us. Never will. I know that this is hard on her too. She hates not having her kids 50% of the time, as do I. No great choices here.

Plan Doormat will not save your marriage. I'm sorry to be harsh...

Appeasing her has only gotten you closer to losing your family.

I plan to discuss my needs at an appropriate time. Perhaps the break will cause us to both reset. If I fight now, she will turn her back on me forever, I believe. The space, right now, will allow her to reflect.

She has already reached out a bit to find out what I think about where we went wrong. She also knows I want to reconcile, I just haven't been reminding her of my feelings because it's counterproductive. I have instead been keeping my communications light and frivolous in order to remind her that I can be funny and charming, like I used to be.

I appreciate the thoughts, though. Agree that there is big risk here.

Sir you do have a choice.
And please don't speak for your wife. She can speak for herself and her feelings.

You can either follow the MB plan or get divorced. She is in withdrawal and she doesn't want to work on your marriage. You judge peoples actions. Not their words.

You need to demonstrate you ARE willing to fight for your marriage by actions.
As for your kids, what horrible example are you showing them? That marriage is a matter of convenience? You need to be the father they need so they don't just view you as a spineless victim.

That knot in your stomach? Sir could that possibly be your conscience?

Your wife wanted to separate because of LB's and being emotionally detached. The longer you stay away, the longer she believes that you actually don't care to fight to win her back. Us women are not as complicated as popular media would like to make it to be - we really do just want our husbands to defend us like a knight on horseback. Right now, after that many weeks of separation, you take every day closer to proving her that you actually don't care.

So move back. She may be angry that day, or that week - but not with continued weeks of dedication to changing the behavior that originally caused the separation. Prove to her that you are willing to change - you cannot do this from some other apartment.

[quote=scaredandconfuse]I plan to discuss my needs at an appropriate time. Perhaps the break will cause us to both reset. If I fight now, she will turn her back on me forever, I believe. The space, right now, will allow her to reflect.

She has already reached out a bit to find out what I think about where we went wrong. She also knows I want to reconcile, I just haven't been reminding her of my feelings because it's counterproductive. I have instead been keeping my communications light and frivolous in order to remind her that I can be funny and charming, like I used to be. [quote/]

Your plan is about as productive as banging your head against the wall.
Marriage Builders is developed by a National Expert on marriages and relationships. Dr Harley is regarded as an expert. You are basically just saying that you don't want to follow the experts advice.

I hear you, I really do. And I appreciate your advice. It is difficult to make sense of this. I am lost.

Listen to the vets here and get un-lost.

This is what Dr Harley says about separation:

There are also legal considerations. If a husband separates from his family, he can be accused of abandoning his children. If the marriage ends in divorce, he risks losing the right to joint custody. So an attorney should always be consulted before separating. When a woman wants to separate, she does not have the same legal problems because most courts let her stay in the home with her children. It's the husband who must leave.

If the husband chooses to separate, his children often feel that he's left them. It makes it very difficult for him to explain why he's taking such a drastic step, especially if sex is the problem. But if a wife asks him to leave, the children are still with her. She doesn't need to do as much explaining.

When a husband has children in the home, the risks and problems of separation often outweigh the rewards. After discussing the pros and cons of a separation because of sexual problems, most husbands I've counseled decide not to separate, and I go back to work trying to convince their wives to make love to them. There are three female coaches on our staff and I lean heavily on their instincts and persuasive skills when trying to address this problem.

But there are many other husbands I counsel who either have no children or whose children are adults. These men are in a better position to separate until their sexual problems have been resolved. Their wives must choose to either address the issue or live without the care of their husbands. And before any separation, I make sure that they have been doing a good job meeting their wife's emotional needs and avoiding Love Busters.

Scared and Confused... I agree with the others saying she is seeing someone else. I didn't want to believe my husband was either. It took pictures and emails to prove it to me. He said all the right things and he blamed me to the point I felt totally responsible and remorseful. Once DDay came I felt very different. Snoop. I snooped. And I found out ALOT including when we tried to reconcile that he was lying about not being in contact with her anymore. We are still separated (second time now) because he can't do no contact. He's trying again, don't know if he's succeeding... thats another story though. You need to start looking for the proof. Trust us, we've been there and some (like me) are still there. I would not sign those papers if you don't want a divorce. Once they are deep in the fog they will cut off their nose to spite their face...

Please read.
Men Do Not Leave Your Homes

If it infuriates her, she is definitely wayward.

if she has got you feeling like you walk on eggshells, she is definitely wayward.

I know it's hard but she doesnt know what she is saying right now. Its like shes under a spell.

She may rant and rave, but obeying your fear is not a plan.

Her plan is to drive you away and get a separation agreement. Her fury is to shepherd you into this.

Dont let her. She knows not what she does.

Your marriage and family can survive her ranting and raving but it cannot survive your abandoning them due to fear.

Your wife's goal is to make you feel lost, scared and confused.

So she can get you out of the way.

Has she asked you to do ONE thing for her? One specific thing and allowed you to try doing it? Would she thank you and let you home if you fixed that specific thing she is asking for?

If she is only asking for space and talking vaguely about her feelings changing- its because her reason for separation is a secret.

Blaming the betrayed person is what ALL wayward spouses do.

If she has said: "I love you but I'm not in love with you"

That's as good as proof of an affair.

A lot of Wayward wives promise to think about reconciliation if you give them 'space.' The betrayed husband agrees out of desperation and the next thing you know, you're divorced with little custody, paying for her to carry on with whomever in your old house.

You need to move home. Whether your marriage can be saved or not remains to be seen but leaving the home is a sure fire way to quicken its death and put you on shaky legal footing in a divorce.

Who care is she's mad? She's using anger towards you to keep you off balance. Get home and start spying. You're going to discover some old boyfriend on facebook or wherever and emails, calls and more. She's pushing you out to make space for someone new.

Guaranteed.

There, I fixed that for you.

If you don't want to see your kids only 50% of the time, then why'd you move out?

How old are the kids?

Go home and tell her that responsible grown ups fix their problems.

If she wants to piss the marriage away without a dot of effort, then she leaves not you.

Now locate your man spheres, straighten your spine, buy a shed-load of snooping tools and STOP HIDING

GO HOME!!!!!!

Whoa, moving out is a HUGE mistake. The only reason I would advise you doing this is if your wife is a crazed lunatic and you fear for your life (in which case I would take the kids out of there to a safe place). The only thing you are doing by living elsewhere is creating an established routine wherein your wife is the primary caretaker of your kids and you see them once a week or even less. If that is the future you want, by all means, stay in that bachelor pad and sign the separation agreement. Also know that most separation agreements turn into custody judgements when the divorce happens. Most judges don't like to upset the status quo once a child care routine is established. GET BACK IN YOUR HOUSE NOW BEFORE YOU LOSE EVERYTHING!!! Lastly, act like a rapper and snoop till you can't snoop anymore! My guess is she has a little somethin on the side.

Snooped but there isn't anything that I have found so far.

I am out of the house; have been for almost two months now. That ship sailed a while ago, unfortunately. I am trying to re-engage with her but she is reluctant. I am making small deposits by talking with her and buying her small but thoughtful gifts. I am also trying to engage in her interests. This is very difficult.

No ship had sailed.
Lacking a court order, you can move back today

Did you look at her computer at her house? Did you search her house for a cell phone?

I think you get my point: without being in her house, it's hard to really check up on her.


Why has it sailed? Is there a court order that says that you cannot live in your own house?


You know how you re-engage? You move back home, plop your butt right on the couch and tell her to pack her crap if she doesn't like it.

Allowing her to dictate that YOU be the one that move out so she can have an affair, only makes you look like you are weak. You are being controlled by her. It also says that you believe that she is the better parent for the children b/c you have abandoned the family home. I know you THINK you are doing the right thing by staying out of your home, BUT YOU ARE NOT!!! You are not in your right state of mind either. Addicts and narcissists make YOU sick too!!! If this were happening to your brother or your best friend, would you tell him to move out? Or, would you tell him to stand his ground, do the right thing, and if she doesn't like it, she can move out? Please wake up and do the right thing for your CHILDREN!!!

Please read.
Men, Don't leave your Home!

Coming back to this, why do you think the moment has passed?

Could it be that you asked for permission to come home and she gave her "nautical" response?

What's so ironic about your wife's behavior right now is that, although you think she'll go ape **edit* if you come home, she will, in the long run, respect you for it. And that is, ultimately, what she wants; a man she can respect. In fact, I'm guessing that placating your wife has led to this crisis in your marriage. It may seem counterintuitive but, deep down, she wants you to be strong right now and fight for her and your family.

X2

For what it is worth I waited too late to save my marriage but I have found through church, therapy, and intraspection how much I was not doing.

**edit**

I encourage everyone to soften their heart and try. I can tell you without hesitation being in my shoes is not where you want to be.

I pray for your situation to work!

****EDIT****

**edit**

I can only emplore you to read up here and pay attention to the vets. Move back home. I would eat my shirt if there isn't another man. You are scared of your wife and she in no way respects YOU. Plan A or Plan B, but you must take control of your household and be a man for your kids. Your wife may not be with you in the end but have some self respect, at least for your kids.

**edit**