Wife left me for best friend - Marriage Builders® Forums

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I need some help understanding. My wife of 14years just up and left me for my best friend of 12years. We have two children and I'm completely lost. I loved her completely and never knew she was having an affair until last Sept. She said that it just happened and they never planned it. Then she wanted a divorce saying that she hasn't loved me in years and that she doesn't love me the way she should. I never saw it coming. My friend lied to me when he said that he would stay out of our marriage so that we could go to counseling or seek out our priest, but all he did was continually pursue her and tell her to leave me. I feel so alone because I loved her so much and he was my best friend. I look at my children and cry with them. She moved in with him 2 weeks after I found out about the affair and she wants to marry him after the divorce is final. She flaunts her love for him in front of me and the kids like this was supposed to happen. When I ask her to turn to God she just says that she believes in him and is still putting him first. How can she do that and live with another man and still be married to me. I want my children to know that God does not want peoplel to live together out of marriage and also to work out any problems with your spouse. We hardly ever faught and she just keeps saying that she will always love me just not the way a wife should love a husband. I'm confused. How do you have different love for someone you marry. It's so hard to understand. Any advice would be greatlly appreciated.

I am sorry about the pain that your wife has caused you and your children...here is a scripture that gives me comfort Isiah 41:13
"For I am the LORD , your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you."

FAA: No one can explain why your wife left you. I feel so bad for you, though, and wish this hadn't happened to you. You were betrayed with a double whammy....your wife AND your best friend. You must feel totally bereft. Might I suggest a divorce support group...I mean one you attend in person? Perhaps you can find one through your church. I think you need the personal support and the interaction. Please don't isolate yourself, as that is very common. If you do, you will probably fall even deeper into depression. From what you said in your post, it seems you have the children with you. You need to be as emotionally healthy as possible to help all of you through this. If that means counseling, seek it.

My marriage broke up without the infidelity and it was as amicable as it could possibly be. But it still hurt...BIG TIME. It's been a year and a half and I am still going through stages. It's a long and difficult process. But, I have my children and I look upon their faces and know I couldn't have gone through this without them. My faith in God has strengthened, as well.

I wish you well, and will pray for you. As they say.....this, too, shall pass. Put your hand in God's and let him lead you through this.

Yes,

the walk away wife syndrome. . . hard to understand, some seeds were planted in childhood or heredity. . .

right now, you have two plans of action. . .
file for divorce immediately,and for custody of the kids. . . or wait it out. . . .

with the suddenness. . . and the obvious flaunting, i think you should file for divorce immediately. . . because that will jolt her into reality. . . you see, she is in the fog of feeling emotional that she feels she should always have. . .

Right now, she is at her weakest as far as a legal position. . . . she is willing to give up alot for the fog. . . and then reality will hit sooner rather than later, and you can always cancel the divorce or if it goes through, work something else out later. . . . .

flaunting in front of you and the kids, being cruel . . . i hate when that happens

wiftty

I just wanted to thank those who replied. My wife I feel is confused. Both of us grew up knowing God with having very religious families but now I find her faith wavering. The man she is with or former friend is an agnostic and so she does not practice any religion with our children when she has them. Prayers at bedtime and meals along with a little Bible study during the week where very important to us and our family and now she has forgone those things just to be with this person.

He has so much of a darker side that I and my wife would not be willing to see. I always tried to look for the good in him; but when other friends found out about my situation they told me about his other affairs and how he would "weasel" his way into other relationships trying to break them up for his benefit. I told her all this and she still hardens her heart to any of it. I told her that I worry about her future and she replies that she doesn't know if she will even be with him in 5 years down the road. I told her that I meant her spiritual future and she just scouffed at me.
She thought I was too controlling in our marriage and this may be her way of rebelling. I don't know. I worry that she has put God on the shelf just to please this man. I try to tell her that we need to set good examples for our children and living with another man while you are still married to me is not one of them.
I guess I'm lost because I always thought that we could work out any problem with prayer and communication, but in the end she wants to experience something else. I wonder if she has had feelings for him for a long time because everything is moving so fast. 14 years together and she wants a 6 month divorce. I try to be strong for our children but this is killing me.

Of course she is confused. . and believe me, her choices have nothing to do with god. . . or agnostics. . . it has alot to do with learned responses or unfulfilled expectations etc. . . .

possibly, you have been very controlling, but then she has to learn to speak up for herself instead of running away from her problems. . . .

however, right now. . . she is in the fog of increased level of romantic feelings. . . of being wooed and admired, etc. . one of feeling worthy and appreciated. . . if she is a Feeler and you a Thinker, then the disparity is understandable. . .

now, remember, educating your spouse is a LB, so do not try that avenue. . . it is a DJ. . . disrespectful judgement. . . .. as an example, my X's newwest best friend was a down andout woman, not well educated, married to an alcoholic, abused, and my wife accepted that her way out of her situation was to have an affair with one of her best friend's husbands and she broke up that marriage etc,. . . any unfavorable suggestions on my part deemed negatively towards this antagonized my X. . . . .

but the reason had nothing to do with the woman, and nothing to do with me, but all to do with how my X operates and feels, does not think clearly. . . so i would suggest that you read up on some behavioral books on affairs, and understand that they are not always about you,
but mostly within the learned behaviors or lack of ceratin behavioral experiences and understandings about life.

if this poerson is as dark as you say. . . then waiting it out and being strong for your kids, may allow your wife to see her mistake. . .

but, if a spouse FLAUNTS the new relationship in front of kids and spouse, then there is no empathy or understanding of the feelings of others, and that is unacceptable to me. . . t

wiftty

WIFTT,
i think you should file for divorce immediately. . . because that will jolt her into reality. . . you see, she is in the fog of feeling emotional that she feels she should always have. . .
But you aren't the one to have to live with HIS decision. You've been here long enough to know this is not part of MB principles. Not to say everything has to be dome in strict accordance with these ideas. But it is completely against one of the main principles of MB.

now, remember, educating your spouse is a LB, so do not try that avenue. . . it is a DJ. . . disrespectful judgement. .
But filing for divorce isn't?

FeelingAllAlone,
Don't file for a divorce unless you want one. If your not sure, don't do it yet. You will KNOW when you are (emotionally) ready for it.
Don't do it to try and get your wife to "wake up."

I wish I could make my wife "wake up" but she has filed for divorce. She even said to me that she will marry him as soon as the divorce is final. Then she said that she wants to have his children. The last thing hurt me the most because she didn't want any more kids after our last one and wanted me to get a vestectamy which I did. I tried to do any and all things to please her.
I must admit that those romantic feelings and nurturings that she is getting right now has been my problem. When I try those things its either too late or she doesn't want it any more. I've tried the best I could. Sure I could do things a little different but marriage isn't about walking on "pins and needles" hoping your doing it right.

I know she's in the fog of the new romance and her boyfriend knows because I confided things to him over 12 years, now he uses that ammo against me and confirms her belief in leaving me. She doesn't want to have those feelings for me. She puts up those walls around herself and wont let any one in.

I just wish it never thought it would have gone this far. With what all we went through after 14 years I would have at least thought she would have tried every possible avenue to work on our marriage and not leave so abruptly. Its as almost if she did not want to let this guy get away and she will say and do anything to keep him.

Thanks again for your honest imputs.

FAA,

Somewhat of the same thing happened to me. The first piece of advice is not to believe a single word your wife tells you while she is with the OM. Secondly, be patient. If you really love your wife and desire reconciliation do NOT get divorced!

Affairs unravel.

My former best friend used his position to separate my wife and I. She knows it now and that plus a lot of other things is bringing about there demise. They live across the street from me which is really hard at times, but also a blessing.

In time the truth will come out. Take care of yourself and your children and don't be surprised by anything your wife does at this point. She is think only of herself. Don't be surprised if she tells people you beat her or that you're a drunk. It is something they do to justify what they have done.

Live the truth and make her live her lie. My XW has zero social life now. Right now you are feeling all the hurt at once, she has had time to prepare for this.

BE PATIENT.

FAA,

I know what you're feeling, I had the same happen to me and it not only hurts that you lost your partner for life, you also lost your best friend in the process, it hurts like hell, there is no denying it. I was a total wreck when it happened and I still have alot of tough days.

I hope you don't mind, but I called in some other long time MB'ers to your thread from the General Questions forum to help you get through the initial pain this will be and to give you some hints.

I haven't written here much, for a few reasons, but one is that I find it very hard to this date to write out what I've gone through, and how much it hurt....but when I saw your thread it hit a note so I came out of lurking mode. The one thing I will tell you is to not listen to what she is saying, it's MAJOR fog talk! It means NOTHING. Second is, do NOT run after her, call her, email her, etc...although I know your every fiber wants to...leave her be for now and work on YOU. Hard yes, but necessary! Trust us...it gets better no matter which way the ball falls...you will turn out alright in the end. Just read all the info here and listen to what people say, and post here instead of getting in contact with WW for now.

Hope this helps.....
Shepette

I really appreciate any and all comments right now. To me the truth doesn't hurt at all I need to hear it. I may have been at faults for some of the things, but it still does take 2 to make a M and 2 to make it work.

I had to take my kids back to her and her new boy friends apartment. That is not easy. She is so giddy and happy like this is the best thing that happened to her. He on the other hand just starred blankly at the computer. I don't know if he had the guts to even look at me. Part of me wants to hope that he knows he messed up but why doesn't he wake up.

My wife is really made up her mind on this divorce. I think that it is up in God's hands what happens next. Even if their relationship fails I don't know if I have the strength to start again. I believe that God has a plan for us and I wanted it to be together with her. I hope in time she will one day realize what she has done not only to me but our children. Whatever I am going through will never compare to their pain. I can't take it away for them and that tears me up.

With his agnostic beliefs, my daughter says they no longer pray before meals or even before bedtime. I worry about them and about my wife. I feel she is sacrificing all that is right by doing what her boyfriend wants...so not to make him leave.

Once again I just want to thank each and every one of you for all you comments because they help me tremendously. I have an appointment for a divorce group therapy tommorrow so I hope that helps me further. Thanks again

Sorry to hear about your problem. I know you are telling yourself that you never in a million years thought this would be happening to you. You are probably beginning to feel a lot of guilt for what you must have done to bring this on. No doubt your wife is helping this process along, however she can.
Listen, you need to do a couple of fundamental things, right away. They may not make sense, but realize that nothing will make sense to you right now. You are hurt, scared, insulted, jilted, embarrassed and exhausted, just to name off the main symptoms.
First, you need to see a counselor. The reason for this is so you can begin to understand what is happening to you and why you feel the way you feel. You also need to have someone tell you what and what not to do. You need an EMERGENCY visit to see a counselor. This counselor may recommend that you see an MD, who will prescribe some medication to keep you from getting too depressed.
Next, go see a lawyer - a good lawyer. If you have a friend in the real estate business, ask him who the best divorce lawyer in town is. Believe me, real estate divorces are nasty and they know the best representation.
Don't sign anything and don't lay hands on your wife, in any way whatsoever.
You said your wife wanted a 6 months divorce - in my state, if you have kids, it's a mandatory 12 month separation before divorce.
Don't just let her take the kids. The kids are the treasures of the marriage. If you want them, and they want you, keep them with you in their home, if you can afford to keep your home by yourself. Your wife will automatically assume that you will roll-over and give her the kids, alimony, child support, etc. Not so fast sister, not so fast. She is the one who wants to go. Tell her to get her [censored] out, take her clothes and NOTHING ELSE. She is the only one who wants this change, so get the hell out and be on her way, if that's the way she wants it. If you are man enough to overlook this mistake, tell her she can come back, but the offer doesn't last forever. Put a time limit on it.
She is empowered to go on this little joy ride with your supposed best friend because she thinks he will be there for her during the hard times. It's OK to let him know that he's on thin ice with you. The friendship is over and you can use what you know about him to your advantage, if you want. Anything is fair game now, as far as he is concerned.
Let me sum this up for you - if you want your kids, keep the house clean and make it as nice as it was when your wife was at home. They won't want to leave their home, if you make it nice for them. They will miss their mom, but they are missing you now, believe it or not.
Who am I? I've been through this. I let my wife stomp all over me until my counselor let me know what was going on. In the end, I had custody of all three kids and I kept the house.
Who knows what happens to make your partner take off suddenly. All I can tell you is that it just seems suddenly to you. She has been planning this - they all plan it. You'd probably choke if you knew how much money she took with her. If she's been planning it, she's been socking money away for a long time.
Hang in there, friend. I hope your employer will be understanding with you while you get yourself together. The counselor is your ticket to feeling better and getting on with things.

Good luck

Hey there guy,

I'm divorced, the OM and my XW are married, and I have custody of our 6 y/o daughter. Her fantasyland has yet to close, but she's had her share of problems. Besides, I know she won't leave him without having someone else to cling to.

I smiled when I read "Live the truth and make her live her lie." from Moving On With Life. SO TRUE!!! I know I'm not perfect, but I know that I did everything I could as far as my marriage was concerned. I can hold my head high. I earned my divorce.

It is more important that you make decisions now that you can live with for the rest of your life.

I'm not going to tell you to file now or not. There are pro's and con's to filing early on.

Get one thing through your head right now. YOU are NOT responsible for the affair. She CHOSE to have the affair. Decay of marriage, sure, her too.

Right now a chemical is racing through her giving her that "in love" feeling. It lasts about 6 months. I forget what it's called right now. Most affairs last about 6 months, gee, wonder why.

What for you to do? Well, there is NOTHING you can do right now to seperate the lovers, NOTHING. You are competing with a FANTASY and you cannot win until fantasyland closes. All she's doing right now is painting you in a bad light so that she can RATIONALIZE her actions. People can rationalize anything, including murder. Just wait until some of life's hardships creap in and crush her relationship built on sand.

Religious beliefs really don't mean a thing when it comes to this behavior. You'll find it's more like an addiction.

I'm pretty much an agnostic and all my cheating WS was doing was thumping her bible to me. Psycho.

So, what's there for you to do. Work on yourself. Why? There's nothing you can do with her right now and if things don't improve, you'll need to look into the future and find someone else. Odds are, once her fantasyland starts to close down, the fog will clear and she'll start looking back at you. What are you going to look like?

The best revenge is living well. Be a great guy. If she can't see it, too bad. Don't put it in her face. Either she'll sober up or she won't. At least you won't have to live with the regret of letting a nice spouse get away.

This is what you need:

WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=000940

Well to say not to file for a divorce will be a little late, she has done that. Right now we have already signed the temporary settlement for child support. With the conditions of the report I want our kids as much as possible. Where I work, I work 12 hour shifts so I can have the kids every day off which is 14 to 15 days a month and she has them the rest of the time. I want our children in my life because I can't even imagine the pain that they are feeling.

I have been in counseling and it has helped. I have also seeked advice from family and friends that have been in a divorce. I do have a lawyer so I have been trying to protect myself.

I don't think I could stay in the house just because everything I own is tied up in it. Two years ago I cashed in my 401K to build our "dream home" now hows that one. She says that she doesn't want my pension or the things in the home just half of the house profits and child support. She hasn't yet hinted at alamony(maintenance)so I don't know her intentions. I dont have much conversation with her. I see her twice a week when I come and get the kids.

I do believe in everyone's words that she is most definately living in the "fog of romance" this was something I probably was not very good at. I also believe that she has been planning this for quite some time or how else could this move so fast. What makes me mad is that she doesn't want our marriage to work or at least try. I've been doing all the trying and she has been only looking at the OM.

He on the other hand I found out had a girlfriend of 3 years before this. He told everyone that they broke up about a month before I found out about my wife's affair. Unfortunately he forgot to tell his girlfriend. He played my wife and girlfriend along together and waited to see if my wife would make a committment to him and then he dumped his girlfriend. How sick is that. Both of them have left nothing but a trail of hurt people behind them and still they dont have a care in the world.

I most affairs end in 6 months, Febuary should be an interesting month for me. I still love her but I also cant stop living my life and wait at the front door hoping she will return. I think something will have to devistate her before anything like that will happen. She is still caught up in the moment and wont recognize who she is hurting. She even went so far as telling our daughter that in time she would thank her for leaving me because you have to be happy first. I agree with you have to be happy first, but I dont expect an eight year old to understand anything like that. Ialso believe that you have to earn your way out of a marriage such as counseling,therapy,church groups, books, mag.etc,but my wife has done none of that. All I want was our marriage to work and all she wanted was a way out. Now that OM came in she took it and left. She has never been on her own in her whole life. I met her when she was in high school. She left her parents to marry me after three years of dating. Now she leaves me and wants to marry OM by this year. It all seems so unbelievable to me.

Yep, another "by the script" story.

OM was seeing his girlfriend while seeing my now XW.

Now XW was pissed when she found out and wanted to get back at OM. OM's girlfriend dumped him because I think now XW told her.

One has to wonder where it's all going. Nothing good can come of what they've "built".

Some days I'm bummed about a failed marriage. Other days I'm glad she's his problem now and not mine.

Hello FeelingAllAlone,

Welcome to the board. I’m so sorry about what you’re going through. Many of us have and are undergoing similar circumstances and we do so feel your pain. I hope our thoughts and experence can help you get through this better.

There is an explanation and its choice…hers. Please try not to take this as an indictment against yourself, it's easy to do and is not true. Your W in under the very powerful influence of infatuation. (Below is an explanation) Once I understood this, it helped me deal with the almost crazy choices my WW was making. There will come a day that she will regret many decisions she is currently making...who knows when, but trust it will happen, becuase God is not giving up on her. No matter what happens, do whatever you do with care and love.

I hope the information below helps you better understand why she is acting completely out of character and apparently turning her back on God and her family. I am in no way justifying her action, but offering an explanation. I hope this will help you feel better about yourself and better understand and accept her actions for what they are.

Whether you divorce or try to work though this, do it in love, because you never know what the future may bring.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Quotes From “The Truth About Love” By Pat Love, Ed.D.

“When you meet a strong candidate for love, you limbic system is flooded with a powerful chemical concoction – so powerful the scientists now believe that the euphoria of infatuation is a bona fide, altered state of consciousness. It is induced by the action of phenylethylamine (PEA), which is a naturally occurring, amphetamine-like neurotransmitter. Michael Liebowitz, a research psychiatrist at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, explains that when we come into contact with a person who highly attracts us, our brain becomes saturated with a love cocktail comprised of PEA and several other excitatory neurotransmitters, including dopamine and norepinephrine. PEA, known as the “love molecule”, works in concert with dopamine and norepinephrine and triggers incredible side effects. Symptoms include a delightfully positive attitude, increased energy, decreased need for sleep, and loss of appetite. Increased concentrations of dopamine in the brain are associated with euphoria.”
“Full-blown infatuation knows no fear… The frenzied action of lovers’ neurons renders the fearless and unrealistically optimistic. It is no wonder that they tend to discount alarming qualities in their sweethearts.”
“PEA, dopamine, and norepinephrine pack such a powerful chemical wallop that people in the throes of infatuation undergo a temporary personality change... This is why lovers say things like “I can’t believe I’m talking to you like this. I’m telling you things I’ve never told anybody” Or, “You’re so easy to talk to” ”
“PEA stimulates libido, raising interest in sex. Dopamine makes us more sexually receptive by increasing our enjoyment of sex and making us want it again”
“The delightful influence or infatuation makes us dangerously inclined to make decisions we may later regret”

In-fat-u-at-ed
1. Lacking sound judgment; foolish.
2. Completely carried away by foolish or shallow love or affection.
3. Extrapolating from insufficient information.

“During the Infatuation Stage, nature makes loving easy by reinforcing contact with euphoria-producing neurotransmitters. But she only provides the initial spark”

“The euphoria of infatuation only lasts about six months and then it slowly begins to wane. By the second year, scientists tell us that lovers are on their own without the aid of Mother Nature’s love potion.”

“When you are aroused, any number of partners can give you simple sexual relief. Infatuation is different. You can be attracted to a number of people but infatuated with only one at a time. Infatuation is characterized by focused attention on a specific partner. When you are infatuated with someone, only this person can give you those euphoric “in love” feeling.”

“It is important, though, to realize that infatuation is merely the earliest stage of love. Do not mistake this temporary power surge for a permanent condition, or confuse it with true love.” <hr /></blockquote>Some Thoughts:

Let God work on her. If she is His, the Holy Spirit will convict her and bring her back. Trust she has a conscience and God has not given up on her.</li>
Let your anger, resentment, and bitterness go. These emotions do more damage to yourself than anyone else.</li>
Do not quote Bible verses. This comes across as controlling. She knows them already. She is just conveniently forgetting them.</li>
Humbly accept that you are just as capable of falling in sin as she is. You may not believe this, but each of us if given the right set circumstances can turn away from God and our responsibilities. All it takes is acting on an impulse and allowing are human frailty and nature to control us.</li>
Do not criticize her in front of the children. Love them and tell them their mother loves them. Let your W provide the explanation to them. Assure them that they have nothing to do with what has happened. They are a blessing to both of you and a gift from God. It is so easy to lash out again your W using the children, but if you do this you do it at their expense and at the expense of your family.</li>
As much as possible, try to live you life and be happy. You are not alone and God is so much larger than all this. God has been preparing you for this very moment.</li>
Accept for this to happen there must have been a problem with your relationship and you will probably come to conclusion that you are 50% of the problem and she is the other 50%. Work on you and try to honestly determine the areas of your life you need to improve. When you talk to your WW listen. You may not agree or even see what she is talking about, but you will probably find there is something there. Nobody is perfect.</li>
Trust God is in control. Believe it or not you can get through this a be happy.</li>
You have every legal, moral, and biblical right to divorce her...The choice is yours.</li>
However, if you decide to wait and try to work through this: Do not smoother her with affection, be loving and caring, do not judge, condemn, or get angry, be her best friend, etc... (Warning: This is a very difficult road with no guarantee of success!)</li>

Take Care,
Derrel

[ January 14, 2003, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Lost & Found ]

With all due respect for the effects of phenylethylamine and its ilk, I don't think it can explain the kind of behavior we've seen from our spouses. The "fog" we talk about here goes far beyond the "fog of romance". It's quite literally a psychotic state.

That's not to imply an organically-based psychosis. This isn't a disease we're talking about. But we are talking about a dramatic loss of contact with reality, which is an indicator of severe internal stresses. Do not underestimate the power of dissonance.

And that giddy behavior? How deep do you think that "happiness" really goes?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally written by Don Henley:
My, oh my, you sure know how to arrange things
You set it up so well, so carefully
Ain't it funny how your new life didn't change things
You're still the same old girl you used to be

You can't hide your lyin' eyes
And your smile is a thin disguise
I thought by now you'd realize
There ain't no way to hide your lyin' eyes<hr /></blockquote>True happiness, the "inner peace" kind of happiness, never comes through self-delusion. And I believe that sooner or later (or both), any child of God who tries that route will have to deal with God asking her why she is throwing herself against the goads. (Acts 26:14)

FAA, I felt every bit of your pain when I read your posts. Although I'm the BW, my WH acted in very much the same ways, and is almost a stranger to me. It is so bizarre, it seems surreal most days. I come home to a house that is no longer home. The "emptiness" is something that will take a long time to pass. My WH was involved for a very long time with a co-worker who I considered a mutual friend. She and her H and my H and I did lots of social things together, exchanged gifts, went shopping, even went on a cruise with several other couples together. I understand the devistation you feel at the double betrayal. The very hardest thing for me is that this is the second time he has been involved with a "career" woman, a strong business type. In my younger days, early on in our marriage I wanted that too and he insisted that he wanted to "take care of me" and only wanted me to work if I wanted. He was adament about it. Yeah, he's taken care of me alright.
Please do heed the words of the others posting here, they are right. It will get better, I can see that in my life already starting to happen. You'll go through lots of different stages, denial, depression, obsession, extreme anger. One by one, you'll let go of them to work on you. You MUST take care of yourself, even if you just want to pull the covers over your head. Once in awhile I indulge myself in that luxury, but now I am focusing on myself more. Your W, like my H, is truly lost in a fantasy world of "romance" and thinks that by totally ignoring almost everything from the marriage you had together, it can just be forgotten and she can start over. It just isn't that easy and they will find this out.
I hope for your sake that your W "wakes up" before it's to late and to much damage is done. I don't believe that will happen for me, my H is a management type and has to much pride to admit mistakes....he'd rather justify until he is blue in the face. But I know on quiet dark nights, thoughts will creep in, dreams will creep in. It's my solace as I move on.
Stay strong, limit contact, be courteous and show her the person you are and can be - not a doormat. Let your strength shine through. Let God guide you. I ask God everyday to guide my words and actions, especially where my H is concerned. You're reeling in shock and hurt right now. You sound like a thoughtful compassionate person and you deserve better - know that.
Gnome de Plume, in a side note, I have to say I have always loved the Eagles and "Lyin' Eyes" has always been one of my favorites. Your quote was so timely and appropriate. I find lots of comfort in music these days, and so many lyrics hit home. Pain, like love, is universal I guess.

FeelingAllAlone,
WOW! I cannot believe the similarities in our situations. Mine has an obvious twist if you read my sig line, but she is saying the EXACT same things my wife is saying. The difference, my former BF (now the OM) is engaged and living with his fiance.

My wife says as soon as she can afford to she's gone. I know your pain of loosing your wife and BF at the same time. It's unbearable. I now feel SO ALONE. When my wife first told me she wasn't happy and wanted to separate I confided in my BF, we talked 3-4 times a day for nearly a month before I found out about their EA! Talk about the ultimate betrayal.

I don't know if I can give you any advice, I am still going through the infant stages of this process, and my wife is still at home with me for now. But, she too refuses to go to church. I've repented and found a good church for our family, she will not go. I do know that when I talk to her about church she becomes VERY defensive and shuts me out.

Again, I'm not sure what advise I can offer, but I can say that you are not alone. This board has been a tremendous help for me. There are so many people here who will help you through this as much as possible. They will not be able to replace your wife or BF, but they will provide you support and allow you an avenue to vent.

Best of luck to you and your children.

GnomeDePlume,

I appreciate your comment. You sound like you are a therapist or very knowable about this topic?

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but I never meant to imply that this is a disease. I hear what you're saying, but I find it so hard to believe that infatuation and the natural drugs associated with it do not influence and perpetuate this condition. Agreed, someone in the fog is in a psychotic state and no doubt stress is a contributing factor, but I personally cannot imagine infatuation not being a primary cause and very influential factor in this psychotic state.

What I offered helped me account for the irrational and destructive behavior I saw in my WW. I've done a lot of reading on the topic. Everything I have read and what I have seen points to infatuation run-a-muck.

Again I do not mean any disrespect and I do see what you’re saying. If you have any references relating to this topic, please post them. I would definitely like to read them. This may help answer some of FeelingAllAones question in regard to his WW behavior.

If nothing else, I think we can agree that the individual's decision making ability is severely impaired and they have very little rational control.

Thanks,
Derrel

[ January 14, 2003, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Lost & Found ]

I had to take my kids back to her and her new boy friends apartment.
If I were you, I'd think seriously about getting an order from the courts so she cannot have the children around the om. At the very least get an order to so the om cannot spend the night while the kids are there. This is something most courts will agree with.

She even went so far as telling our daughter that in time she would thank her for leaving me because you have to be happy first.
+++If this is so, I would RUN IMMMEDIATELY to a lawyer and get full custody of the children.+++ I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE I AM PUTTING ON THIS!!!
Telling something like this to an 8 year old borders (in my opinion) on child abuse/mental cruelty. She is really gonna mess up your kid talking like this.

You daughter should NOT be played with like this. Telling her she is gonna be happy because she no longer has a family because mom wasn't happy?

So if your daughter is not happy in class, it is okay to get up and leave?
If she is not happy at work, it is okay to just leave?
If she is getting a ticket from the policeman, it is okay just to drive off?
And on and on...

[ January 14, 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Lost & Found:
I do not think we can ignore the fact that we are basically taking about infatuation, and therefore the human conditions associated with it. Agreed, someone in the fog is in a psychotic state, but I think you cannot exclude that infatuation is a primary root cause of the psychotic state.<hr /></blockquote>As far as I know, my (ex-)wife did not leave me for somebody else. I do not believe that infatuation was a cause, root or otherwise, of her "fog". Rather the fog originated from a conflict between her values and her behaviors. She did what she felt was right for her to do at the time, but in so doing she violated her own deeply-held principles. The resulting dissonance has led her to develop astonishingly paranoid beliefs and to act against her own self-interest and stated desires, as she has attempted to create for herself a "reality" in which her behavior would be justified.

The actual root cause of my wife's desertion isn't relevant here; only that it wasn't infatuation. Nevertheless, I grant you that it seems reasonable to me that an infatuation (particularly when combined with a state of emotional vulnerability due to those proverbial unmet needs) could lead someone to do something which, although it felt "right" in some way, was nonetheless known to be wrong. I believe it is this betrayal of principle which causes the subsequent psychotic state, as early rationalizations fail to remove feelings of guilt and stronger justifications must be found - justifications which can't be based in reality.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />If you have any references relating to this topic, please post them. I would definitely like to read them.<hr /></blockquote>I was going to point you to an article, but unfortunately it's been removed from the web. You might find Charles Ford's book Lies! Lies!! Lies!!!: The Psychology of Deceit interesting reading.

GnomeDePlume –Thank, I will check your reference out. To be honest I’m still skeptical that infatuation does not play and important role in the case of infidelity, because there is no doubt that the side-effects fit the typical WS’s actions and attitude. And to be honest I have only seen the term fog used in case of infidelity, but I do see your point. Humans are very complex and I’m sure there are many different causes and influences for this irrational and destructive behavior.

Maybe to some extent I'm just oversimplifying all this. Anyhow this helped me stop trying to make sense of the craziness and accept there is no logical answer or explanation.

Take Care and Thanks again,
Derrel

A drug addict will do just about anything for the next fix. They think nothing about selling everything they own without considering the consequences of it in a few weeks.

A ws usually hasn't had the intense feelings found in the beginning of a relationship for a while. When someone new enters the picture, things start to get blurry as to what is right/wrong because it "feels" so good.

Rats wired up with electrodes in their brain to stimulate them sexually when a bar is pressed, will do it repeatedly until they die form exhastion/hunger/thirst.

When it comes to logic vs. emotions, the emotions will rule, 99% of the time, especially when it seems as if everything possible has been done. This is the MAIN reason MB teaches you to NOT get into a situation where you may become closely involved with someone of the opposite sex. By the time you realize there is more there than you were expecting, it is too late.

GDP,
I believe it is this betrayal of principle which causes the subsequent psychotic state, as early rationalizations fail to remove feelings of guilt and stronger justifications must be found - justifications which can't be based in reality.
Absolutely! Which is why most affairs will end badly. The ws KNOWS they are doing something wrong, even while they are doing it but cannot force themselves to stop it. After the "fog" clears and they can look clearly at what has happened, most ws are in total amazement (not a strong enough word) at their behavior during the affair. They cannot understand how they could put aside everything they previously believed in and they get "psychotic" in trying to understand it.

[ January 14, 2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

Just for the record, I am neither a therapist, nor do I consider myself very knowledgeable on any of this stuff. I learned what I have learned for the sake of my own sanity.

I'm sorry that I didn't make this clearer, but I definitely do agree that infatuation plays an important role in infidelity. Absolutely. I just don't think it's enough to explain the mind-boggling irrationality that so often follows.

First comes the infatuation, leading to the initial betrayals. Then comes denial, with lies as credible as a preschooler's and dissociation sometimes strong enough to tempt a diagnosis of multiple personalities. Finally, when the secret life comes out into the open and its inevitable effects begin to be felt so that denial is not an adequate coping mechanism, dissonance steps in and self-delusion expands to encompass more and more of reality.

Oh yes indeed, that's a dandy recipe for happiness.

And sadly, even after the infatuation wears off (which it will), denial and dissonance are powerful enough forces that the fog may never clear. There are no guarantees here except one: failure to face oneself and one's responsibility for one's own actions will guarantee a miserable life.

Boy I sure had a lot to digest but it makes so much more sense to me now. Thank you. I'm sure she has had feelings for BF for quite awhile and when I wasn't able to either give her the feelings that she wanted or maintain those feelings that she wanted; she looked to BF. Also the transition of living with him was easy since he has been a "so-called" friend of the family for over 10 years, so she felt comfortable with him and felt that our children did not need to make to major of an adustment.

On the kids adjustment, she was wrong. I have been in a church group for divorced people and they are starting a counseling session for children in 2 weeks. I will be taking both of my kids to this and hope this will give them some comfort during this whole situation.

Originally when my WS wanted the divorce, she wanted me to stay quite so as not to start rumors at the place that my former BF and I work at. Now in retrospect, I think she was only worrying about his reputation as a nice person and didn't care about mine. She obviously is looking the other way on any of his lies and betrayals saying "I see the other side" that to me is the infactuation talking and denial on her part. She doesn't want to believe that this person can do no wrong. Unfortunately this will only end terribly and she will in time find out his true self. He can't keep hiding his true person behind the romance and infactuations forever. Soon the day-to-day daily grind of life will enter and then what will they have?

What will happen when they have their first fight? I can say honestly that they haven't grown a honest relationship together that will last long term. I also can say that I did not covet another man's wife or committ the adultary so at least I can look myself in the mirror each morning and say that to myself. My love for her was genuine not based on lies and deceit of others. I hope in time she will realize this. Right now I will take all of your excellent advices and concentrate on myself and hold our children dear to me and work the best way through this. Once again, this MB has been nothing but a life savior for me. Thanks again

She even went so far as telling our daughter that in time she would thank her for leaving me because you have to be happy first.
What are you doing about this? You need to be protecting your daughters!

Read with interest the dialog about infatuation, rationalization, altered states of mind...when I first confronted my H about his affair(s) I asked him how he could do this and then come home and act so "normal". He truly led a double life and led it very well.
He answered that the first couple of times he felt very guilty, but after that it was easy to do....
Just the answer I was looking for.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

FAA,
just some things you might want to think about.

are you missing your wife or are you missing the life you had with her?

are you hurt because she's gone, or because she cheated on you with your supposed best friend and left you for him? (a good reason to be hurt but in the end, if that's the only reason then all it is, is pride.)

if it was you that left her, would you still feel the pain? would her pain matter to you?

do you want her back or is the life that you had with her before that which you really want?

on the other hand it's obvious that she wasn't happy about something...but that doesn't mean it was everything! no matter what you did,you don't deserve the treatment that she's giving you. so quit doing mia copas and get up off the floor.

also understand that all of us, men and woman reach some point in our lives when we begin seeking answers to questions we never even asked ourselves before. i guess that it's at this time when we're most vulnerable...soooo, when along comes a snake (in your case your ex-best friend)all of a sudden she finds glittering new truth! so tell me...who is the sick joke really on?

now here's the thing. it sounds like you're being tested and if you feel that it's true then stand up and be counted. get off the floor and be the man God intends for you to be. a proud, decent H & father who refuses to bend under the weight you've been given to carry. behave with dignity and pride.

seek real and honest answers to questions you may never have asked yourself before. make a mature decision as to weather you really want your wife back...as apposed to just getting back the life you had together. work hard to be an even better person then you are. remember that plan A is about you! YOU! it's not an exercise in wife retrieval. it's about getting a wake up call in life...it's your opportuity to grow and become more and better then you were before.

what you're living through is a true nightmare but you can find light in all this darkness if you really seek it. so my advice would be that if you can't control the bad and end up having to live with it...be sure that you find the posative and at least take that from the experience.

good luck.
coach

[ January 15, 2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

The comments you made coach were pretty close to the truth. I am missing the life that my wife and I had, there was security and comfort in that life. However, I miss sharing those moments that only husbands and wives can share. I know that I did not deserve what happened to me and maybe early in the affair she might have regretted it; but now 5 months later its much easier being with the former BF than with me.

I am joining a divorce group with a local church and last night they gave me some good advice as all of you have on this MB. I can look at myself in the mirror and say that I didn't have the affair and I didn't covet my BF's wife or kids. I will hold my head up with dignity and honor because God does not want to see me laying down in defeat. I take "ownership" in things that I have done or not done enough in my marriage but none of what I haven't done justifies what W and BF have done to myself and our children.

With how they have begun their relationship it will only end in flames. Neither one has put God first in their lives and I will let God work in his way to bring both of them back to them. They made the concience decision to do this no matter how dilusional they think it's "right" or "meant to be" is a load of crap.

One day they will have this hit them and I pray for their soul's that they will turn to God and ask for forgiveness as I have. My faith is so much stronger with Him than I can ever imagine. I will constantly share these feelings with my children so they will also know that God loves them and will never leave them.

I get my kids for the weekend and I can't wait. They have been e-mailing me just to let me know that they love me and that means the world to me.

I guess I'll ask again, the question which for some reason you do not want to seem to address.

She even went so far as telling our daughter that in time she would thank her for leaving me because you have to be happy first.
What are you doing about this? How can you allow your daughter to be abused in this manner? You need to be protecting your daughters!

I want our children in my life because I can't even imagine the pain that they are feeling.
? I'm confused. First & foremost, I would think you want them in your life because they are your children.

[ January 15, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

I just wanted to say that I do have both of my children half of the month according to my work schedule. My wife does not prohibit me in seeing them. I had a rather heated conversation on the phone with her last night about a lot of issues, one of them telling our daughter it's o.k. to leave daddy and live with someone else. She is still denying any problem and gets super defensive about this. I know that she loves the children and I know so does BF its just that the moral values that they are showing our children are confusing.

I talk to my daughter on things and when I get some explanations I bring these things to my wife. She says that she may be making things up to gain attention . I never knew my 8 year old to fabricate stories about what's happening and my wife denies it. I'm confused because my wife is adement about our daughter making things up, yet my wife was the one who lied about the affair.

I brought my daughter and son into a group counseling for divorced children and this is a 4 month program. I'm hoping to meet other parents their so that we can do more group therapy outside of the meetings to help our kids out. I hope this can be the first step to recovery for them.

To answer your question Chris, I don't know how I can seperate our children from their mother. They want to be with her and I know she loves them even while she is in this fog. I'm hoping with the group therapy and my love that we can all get through these tough times.

My wife does not prohibit me in seeing them.
How kind of her.

I know that she loves the children
Loving them does not mean she will do what's right/best for them. If it did, then she would not be having an affair and living with someone else.

I don't know how I can seperate our children from their mother.
I don't know how you could allow them to be separated from their father.

My point is this.
You are separated. The children will live with one parent or the other.
Why is it okay to live with the parent who is telling them they will thanks her later in life because she left you? Why is it okay to live with the parent who is showing the children marriage means NOTHING and it is okay to live with a man while married to another?

Do what's best for the children! If that means getting them out of an abusive situation (I believe it is) then DO IT!
If a divorce actually takes place, don't you want it to have as minimal an impact as possible?

[ January 17, 2003, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

i just wanted to interject a thought here. being an adultress does not equate to being a bad mother. it just doesn't. and please understand, i will not take a back seat to no one when it comes to my disaproval of what your wife is doing and has done. DESPICABLE is the word i think best describes her behavior.

however, and this is a big HOWEVER, just because she is "simple-stupid" on this one issue it does not equate to her being "simple-stupid" about everything.

let's all take a serious moment here and just give this matter a little thought...no matter how terrible her behavior has become as far as her marriage is concerned that does not change her status as the mother of your children and as such she is deserving of the respect that this position provides.

now if you should have evidnece of some kind of abuse..from either her or her boy toy...well that changes things. however, given that there is no such abuse then as far as the children are concerned, then i don't feel that they should be made a bargaining chip in this mess.

coach

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by coach3530:
i just wanted to interject a thought here. being an adultress does not equate to being a bad mother. it just doesn't.<hr /></blockquote>When I was a teenager, I went to a youth conference at a large midwestern church. Kids and speakers came there from all over the country. The youth pastor there served as the master of ceremonies, and as a speaker in his own right. He was an inspirational and impassioned speaker, and clearly the sort of role model a parent would want for his or her kids. He and his wife even adopted a baby born to a young woman who had gotten pregnant out of wedlock.

Years later it came out that this man had been sleeping with a number of the girls under his ministry in that church's youth group, and that the baby he and his wife adopted was (unbeknownst to his wife) his own illegitimate child.

He said a lot of good things. He did a lot of good things. He didn't take advantage of every girl in that youth group. So tell me: was he a good youth pastor?

A parent may say and do many good things for his or her child. But to desert a spouse without just cause - a violation every bit as horrific and devastating as murder or rape, in my opinion - and then to propound the idea that this was a good thing to do, for no other reason than "it made me happy", is to commit an evil which calls into question the significance of everything else that person has said and done. It presents an example and a lesson which cannot be balanced with other words and actions, and I am sick to death of our societal pretense that divorce is of little real import.

Jesus said "It is inevitable that stumbling blocks come, but woe to him through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble."

I never said being an adulteress equates to being a bad mother. But being a bad mother means being a bad mother!

now if you should have evidnece of some kind of abuse..from
See below...

She flaunts her love for him in front of me and the kids like this was supposed to happen.

The man she is with or former friend is an agnostic and so she does not practice any religion with our children when she has them. Prayers at bedtime and meals along with a little Bible study during the week where very important to us and our family and now she has forgone those things just to be with this person.

I had to take my kids back to her and her new boy friends apartment.

She even went so far as telling our daughter that in time she would thank her for leaving me because you have to be happy first.

I had a rather heated conversation on the phone with her last night about a lot of issues, one of them telling our daughter it's o.k. to leave daddy and live with someone else.

Divorce is divorce. It's not easy on anyone, least of all the innocent children. To tell them divorce is good for any reason, is not a good thing to do. Telling them a divorce is necessary is okay, IF it's because of adultery, addiction or abuse. Anything else is crapola.

[ January 17, 2003, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

points of view regarding a adultress/mother's fitness to continue being a "good" mother are obviously going vary. but in fairness, shouldn't we agree that trying to apply generalities, (i.e. she is an adultress there fore an evil woman) to the kind of situations we deal with on this board is just not tenable? individuale situations, problems and people make generalizing unfair. more important it's not a realistic way to deal with problems.

and please, with all due respect, could we not confuse this very specific situation with scripture? could we not, all of us, agree that God's hand is on us all and while his design is sometimes beyond our comprehension, it doesn't make it any less his? i'm sorry but trying to interepret God's design with in the context of the scripture, just strikes me as being some what presumptous...maybe, just maybe we are not meant to understand all of God's will.

on a more practicle level, what the wife and mother under discussion here is involved in, is something that obviously cuts close to all our collective bones. it's an issue that creates great emotional anguish among many of us.

but really, so what if the poor silly woman tries to rationalize her situation by telling her children that she is entitled to her happiness and that in seeking it, she's not really committing a sin? can't we be understanding enough of the confusion in her mind to realize that this kind of logic cannot convince even the youngest person of it's correctness?

but even if she could convince her children that she is right...does anyone really think that being stupid qualifies as being abusive? come on...the woman is acting like a foggy headed moron not an evil moron? please...in this country we don't take children away from the mother's for being stupid.

coach

Hey coach,

I think you need to read/hear what others wrote & not simply what you think they wrote,

shouldn't we agree that trying to apply generalities, (i.e. she is an adultress there fore an evil woman)
No one here said that at all. I was not saying or applying that in these circumstances. And I never do. I don't believe that simply because she is an adulteress she is evil nor a bad parent.

But actions of the parent (either one) should dictate if the parent is showing good judgement in doing/telling the children certain things. Everyone makes a bad call now & then as a parent. But to do it continuously is wrong.

but even if she could convince her children that she is right...does
Children look to their parents to teach them almost everything. If they get scared/hurt, they go to their parents to "make it right." Now a divorce happens. The children know almost nothing of what is happening and have even less control over it. They only know their family is being destroyed and the parents show no concern for that. The parents don't give a squat over how it affects the children. "I want to be happy & I deserve to be happy!" the children get told. I do not care how it affects you. If you're hurting now, bummer. In a few years, you'll thank me! Now shut up & color!

To me, that's abuse!

In this country we don't take children away from the mother's for being stupid.
We don't? It sure happens all the time. And it should.

So a single mom on crack should have her children?

and please, with all due respect, could we not confuse this very specific situation with scripture? could we not, all of us, agree that God's hand is on us all and while his design is sometimes beyond our comprehension, it doesn't make it any less his? i'm sorry but trying to interepret God's design with in the context of the scripture, just strikes me as being some what presumptous...maybe, just maybe we are not meant to understand all of God's will.
???No one but you is talking anything about scripture.
I said to get the children out of an abusive situation.
But you're saying God is allowing this to happen and we (humans) should not interfere? As a father/mother you OWE it to God to get the children someplace safe and NOT in a situation where marriage vows are being flaunted and tossed in trash and told it's okay to do it.

[ January 19, 2003, 12:39 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

Actually, I said something about scripture: I quoted Luke 17:1-2 in my last post.

What I did not do is claim that infidelity makes someone an unfit parent or that it makes someone "an evil person". I like M. Scott Peck's definition of evil:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />From The Road Less Traveled:
...Evil is laziness carried to its ultimate, extraordinary extreme. As I have defined it, love is the antithesis of laziness. Ordinary laziness is a passive failure to love. Some ordinarily lazy people may not lift a finger to extend themselves unless they are compelled to do so. Their being is a manifestation of nonlove; still, they are not evil. Truly evil people, on the other hand, actively rather than passively avoid extending themselves. They will take any action in their power to protect their own laziness, to preserve the integrity of their sick self. Rather than nurturing others, they will actually destroy others in this cause. If necessary, they will even kill to escape the pain of their own spiritual growth. As the integrity of their sick self is threatened by the spiritual health of those around them, they will seek by all manner of means to crush and demolish the spiritual health that may exist near them.<hr /></blockquote>Infidelity is a sin, a folly, a mistake, a misjudgement. Often it "happens" without premeditation, and precipitates a period of confusion. Dishonesty is used not only to hide the sin, but in an effort to protect loved ones from the effects of that sin.

When carried further, however, to the shameless breakup of the family and the destruction of the children's trust in everyone, it is evil. It doesn't even have to be conscious destruction. Peck says "They do this not with conscious malice but blindly, lacking awareness of their own evil - indeed, seeking to avoid any such awareness."

Does this mean we shouldn't be loving or understanding? Of course not. But let's call a spade a spade. A rose by any other name would still have its thorns.

Am I being presumptuous?

I have heard some pretty nauseating ideas propounded here on MB. Whatever we do, wherever we are, that's where God wants us to be right now? Pfaugh!! Politically correct, gee-I-really-don't-want-to-be-judgmental-or-hurt-anybody's-feelings pablum. If standing up for righteousness is being presumptuous, then by God, I'll be presumptuous! I don't pretend to understand "all of God's will". I don't pretend to understand how God works His will, and I'm very sure that He's a far sight cleverer than I am. But sin is sin regardless of whether and how God is able to bring good out of it.

As for a child's ability to reject the bad logic spewed by a parent-in-the-fog, I'll go you one better.

It's a da&ned good thing that I don't have kids, because I have a huge problem with this whole parental alienation thing. We're supposed to sit our children down and tell them that even though their parents can't stand to live together any more, "don't worry, both of us will always love you." Let's go ahead and try to fill those kids with false confidence, shall we?

Because for all we know, it's a lie. Just how stupid do we think these kids are? They know that if their mother can stop loving their father for no apparent reason, then their mother can stop loving them too. And if you can't trust your mother, then you can't trust anybody in this whole @&$*ed-up world. And when we try to quash this very legitimate connection, we are just showing them that we too are willing to deceive them, and we are training them to suppress their own awareness of the truth.

More often than not, the lessons these kids are learning will screw up their lives forever, or at least for decades to come - even if it takes decades for the effects to show themselves. And if that's not evil and abusive, then I don't know what is.

Sometimes being stupid really does qualify as abusive. You can kill a child with stupidity and carelessness, as far too many parents already have.

I appreciate all your comments about this issue. I know my wife's judgement may be clouded due to the affair, but I don't think she would intentionally put our children in harms way. The OM has known the children for at least 6 years and has been a big part in their lives. I do feel he loves them it's just that the way those two went about the affair and now subsequent divorce is hard.

My wife told my she hasn't loved me in years and would try to reach me and change. I on the other hand was caught up in too many of my personal things to see that she was crying out. Now do I think that she should have had the affair. NEVER. But I can at least now see the reasoning behind it, due to the fact that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs. Now when I recognize these things, she has now given herself to another and wont look back.

I have beaten myself up on this for months and has gotten me nowhere. I have to pick myself up off the floor and move on. She has the help of OM while I have the help of you good MB'RS and friends. One day, I hope, God will enter into her life and let her realize what she has done. Not only to me but our children. That isn't happening now because she is too much in "the fog" to clearly see what's happening.

I love her too much which she knows and still she will not give up on her new life. The feelings she has right now with OM have completely overshadowed anything I could say or do. So why try. Let God work himself into her life, like he has mine and maybe if it is his will she will come back. I must be strong for myself and our children. I deserve to be loved just as deeply as I loved her,nothing less.

I think GnomeDePlume summed it up very well.

IMO, anyone who participates in the destruction of a family and then flaunts the affair in front of the children, forcing the children to be exposed to an illicit relationship, is not acting in a responsible manner as a parent, and should not have primary or joint residential custody or legal custody, except in very limited circumstances (such as a nursing infant, or when the other parent is incarcerated).

I would very much question whether the OM in this case "loves" the children - had that been the case, he would not have participated in the destruction of the family.

Oops, double post.

[ January 19, 2003, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]

I know my wife's judgement may be clouded due to the affair, but I don't think she would intentionally put our children in harms way.
That still doesn't mean "it's okay" for her to continue.

Drunk drivers don't intentionally go out to hit & kill others but it happens. Should we just shrug our shoulders and say, "it wasn't intentional so it's okay?"

I guess if you are think she is raising your children in a proper and moral way and doing what's best for the children, we can't change your mind.

My wife told my she hasn't loved me in years and would try to reach me and change. I on the other hand was caught up in too many of my personal things to see that she was crying out. Now do I think that she should have had the affair. NEVER. But I can at least now see the reasoning behind it, due to the fact that I wasn't meeting her emotional needs.
Almost ALL of us here have heard the same thing. Your situation is not much different than most of the others.

She didn't have an affair because you were not meeting her emotional needs. She had an affair because she failed to keep herself out of an affair.

I have beaten myself up on this for months and has gotten me nowhere. I have to pick myself up off the floor and move on.
Okay, gonna be a little blunt here.

Boo hoo. Now, what are you gonna do about your relationship?

I love her too much which she knows and still she will not give up on her new life. The feelings she has right now with OM have completely overshadowed anything I could say or do. So why try.
Because you are married. You got married for reasons that are still valid. You have children together. It is a fact that your wife is "confused/in the fog" and the actions you take NOW can help to make your marriage survive.

You only found out 4 months ago about the affair. This is less time than it takes for the average affair to die. Harley says 6 months for most. The hotter/faster an affair is going on, the quicker it will die.

You're wife is pushing everything so fast, she doesn't have time to think about what she is doing. When it ends up hitting her in the face (it will) you need to be the one there for her.

She has the help of OM
But he is not helping her work through all the feelings. She is simply covering them up because it "feels right" with om. After he leaves her, she will go through the floor.

I feel you need to do what's best for the children & do what you can to save your marriage (not just roll over and say "waaah"".
This means looking at your behaviors and how they affect relationships (learn MB principles and how to apply them.)

I'll quit ragging on you now. If you need/want some help or someone to get ticked off at, just ask. I'm here for ya'.

[ January 19, 2003, 06:09 PM: Message edited by: Chris (CA123) ]

Tough Love is that right Chris? Don't worry about ragging on me. We are talking about a marriage with kids involved, one in which I dont want to see end. I will follow Plan A and see how things plan out. I am seeing her tomorrow morning so I will let you know how this one goes. I appreciate your bluntness it helps me snap out of my self pitty.