I just got back from Albuquerque...pretty tough trip. My mother perked up while we were there. But we definitely have to make some plans for the near future.....she bit my head off then when this was suggested....

Talked to my ex last night for the first time in a month. He told me he was going to cut my child support in half for the next two months...no court orders...no explanation except that he isn't doing well finacially right now. (That sure hasn't stopped him from going to Jamaca for 10 days, sending my daughters to Europe, and planning a formal wedding down in Florida in October--including formal invitations, etc.)

I can't make it finacially without his child support... What now? I called DFS and the Child Support Enforcement agency this morning. They are going to send me an application to submit on this--but they said that it would take awhile.

You know, I am supposed to forgive this man???? I am afraid the hatred just keeps building. Someone tell me how I am supposed to keep going without the childsupport that was court ordered? Pat

Has this happened before or is this the first time? How short are you going to be? Is he going to give you more to make up for the shortage when he can?

I am so sorry this has to happen because it just builds resentment. I haven't had this problem myself but I pray that you can get by. It seems like you have made the right contacts to rectify the problem.

Can you borrow from family members and when X pays you back then pay them back? I would hate to have to that myself but sometimes we have to do thing we wouldn't ordinarly do.

Sorry about your mother I went through that with my grandmother and it was very hard. Its just one thing after another sometimes. I will give you a hug((((((())))))))).
LJ

Dear lj1122,

Yes, he did it once before the divorce was final--for about three months. This time he wants to drop it by $800--I don't know what I am going to do. I have tuition payments to make for my oldest daughter, the other three kids have all grown a bunch this summer and I am sure nothing will fit for school. Yuck! My stomach has been turning all day over this.

Wouldn't you think God would think 2 and 1/2 years of this mess would be enough.

I go back to work in two weeks, but don't make much as a teacher. Life looks pretty grim right now.

My family members are not in a position to help me, unfortunately. They would otherwise.

How does a man get away with doing this to his family? I feel so hopeless tonight. It seems like we just start trying to live again--and he hits us with something else.

I don't know how I am going to cut corners anymore than I already have. My soon to be senior is going to change her schedule so that she will get out early next year to work. That is sad we have to resort to that...it is neat how she is offering to help tho.

I hope we make it--this family has been through enough trauma--

Thanks for the HUG!! Pat

Pat,

I am sorry that he is doing this to you!! IT is not fair, but them do you expect anything more from him?

He is in contempt, he could go to jail!! He is not the one that decides how much it is that he gives to his kids now it is the state of Missouri!! That was his choice.

I can't find the paper work to tell you what the DD form number is but I am sure that you or your lawyer had to fill it out for you to get your half of his retirement. But as I was reading that the other day, I believe that you can have the child support taken from his half of the retirement in an allotment. If he has been ordered to pay x amount of $$ they can help you get it that way I do believe, check with base legal, it's cheaper, then check with your lawyer.

My x tried to not pay the lawyers fees that he has to pay me back monthly and I just told him that I was sorry that he was short but that it wasn't my problem but that it could be a real problem for him if he didn't pay. Got the money real quick!!! Stand your boundaries!!! This is so very important at this time, if you allow him to get away with it this time he will do it again, cause he can!!!! Stand strong!!!!

Document all of the money that he has paid out this summer on frivolous things. So that you have it in hand when asked by the lawyer, judge, DFS, and whoever else may ask for it. Prepare yourself to fight him if he pushes it to that. I bet he backs down if you have your ammo together!!!

I am sorry that this had to happen after coming home from being with your mother. Is your brother helping you to make decisions where your mother is concerned?

Stay strong!!! You have come so far, do not let him control you in this manner!!! That is what it is he is doing, he is still trying to control you, make you weak, that you need something from him. You do need his money, but that is not from him that is from the courts that ordered him to pay that amount, that was his choice when he choose to have an affair and push for the divorce, now he must live with that and the dollar amount that the judge ordered him to pay. If he doesn't take him back to court!!!

Best wishes to you, Pat!!!

Dawn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks Dawn,

I just feel so down tonight. I am so tired of this.

My brother is helping with the decisions with mom. We are going to try to move her here sometime this fall. I am busy trying to clean up my bedroom and sitting room. I am going to take down my water bed and move my furniture up stairs...move the little kids back together for a year until my 2nd oldest graduates next spring.

Not the most ideal solution...but probably the best. She will have this whole wing of the house--can stay in here if she wants. It is so hard for all of us. She is kind of b****y in her old age. I love her dearly, but am afraid this will be another trial. Don't know how the kids will do with it....I know she hates giving up her independence too. Getting old is so hard.

I think I am going to be in another battle with my Ex. I don't know what he is thinking....altho I do know that he is starting to resent sending us any money at all. They have both been unemployed--he since November and she since April 1st. Evidently, they both just started a new job with mortgages or something. Sure hasn't stopped them from vacationing--two trips to Maine this summer, boating, and Santa Claus syndrom whenever my two youngest are visiting. Lots of trips to Oceans of Fun and Worlds of Fun. They are still plannning a formal wedding in October in Florida. She flew to Louisiana for her wedding gown.....but he doesn't have enough money to pay his child support.

Thanks for the help. I will have to look for that DD form. I will call the base legal office tomorrow. I am so sick of this mess. How can anyone choose to put their family through this mess...I just don't understand. He is such a jerk. He tried to get hired on base again just recently. They are taking some of the pilots back....but they didn't hire him. I am glad even tho it is putting us in a bind. They would be in my face all the time then...and I don't know if I could control myself with that situation. Why did this happen...can't believe I am still asking myself that question. I just want to be able to live again without this heaviness in my heart. Life is too short to live like this. I want it to just go away....must be late tonight. Sorry for the ranting.

How are you and the kids doing? I hope better than I am. Take Care Pat

Pat - yes the betrayed spouse gets the raw end of the deal. Most betrayers will try to control and control. Part of the syndrom of the abuser and the controller.

If your mother is moving in with you, is there going to be help from your brother with taking care of mom. This is hard on everyone. Your mother wants her independence. She is feeling bad that older age is starting to take a tole on her life. Getting older is not easy, and does get an elderly quite down. Set some days that your brother can help out. This doesn't need to be placed totally in your hands and in your house.

Do as stated above, record all the vacations, trips, and money he is spending on frivoulous things. And trips he is doing with the kids, the Santa Claus epidemic. I know a little of this is starting to happen in my life. I can't afford to do much with the kids, and dad is taking them on a 1 1/2 week vacation. Yep, the betrayed spouse gets the raw end of the deal.

There is something that God is wanting for you. And one day you will see his plan. For now it seems unfair, which it is, but there is something better in the future.

Turn the paperwork in, and his checks will be garnished to pay childsupport. He has no right in the world to decide what he is going to and not going to pay you for child support. This is another control mechanism by a abuser. He thinks he has you, show him that there is power over him, and that there is a court order. Since he has done this before, you should know how the process works.

Take care, and hugs to all of you and have your brother commit himself or his family to helping with your mother. After all you will be going back to school teaching, and there is a lot taking your parent back in the home. I will be in the same situation with my mother and my motherinlaw. My x doesn't have the patience with his mother. He doesn't seem to see that she did the best she could, and he criticizes her too frequently. But I told her, that I will be there for her and her other son knows that I have stated to him that I will take care of his mother, and of course my brother and I have already signed the papers that I would take care of my mother. He will pay me for my caregiving.

The parent role reverses as age creeps up. We once looked up to our parents for advice and caretaking. Now our parents are looking to us for support and love and care. I will be gladly to do this for my only parent that is alive, and for my MIL. That is what being of Gods path means. Taking care of others.

Dear Faith4Me,

Yes, both of my brothers are willing to help as much as possible---it is just that none of us are in a very good shape financially right now. My older brother has retired and they are already taking care of his wife's mother. My other brother has just gone through a nasty divorce and was layed off--so he is really hurting. So...I want to take care of my mother--she has always been there for me and it is my turn to give back, if she will let us.

Wow, last night I had a huge fight with my exH. We were getting ready to have our annual pool party for my oldest and youngest daughters birthdays. I don't know why he called--except he wanted to know when we were leaving for the party. Then he said he was picking the kids up on Friday and I said we were leaving for a soccer tournament in Omaha. I had already told him this in an email...he just wants everything his way. He didn't offer to take the kids this weekend. He reacted pretty negatively and then said all sorts of disrespectful things. I told him that he could have the kids next weekend for another soccer tournament in Omaha...and he said he couldn't do that. He comes up with these last minute plans, expects me to read his mind and then change our plans. He is supposed to notify me of the dates he wants the kids--so far he hasn't done that. He said he emailed me the plans--but I am not getting his emails. I told him from now on that he must give me the plans in writing. He hated that.

I am afraid I lost it when he repeatedly said disrespectful things. I hung up once, and he called me back yelling. I tried to stay calm until he said something about "well I have an adult here that knows you aren't letting me have the kids." I lost it at that point and said "what adult...you have a whore..." I could kick myself for saying that...but I am so sick and tired of him being disrespectful and saying snide comments and accusing me of alienating him from the kids.

Anyway, he said he was going to take this to his lawyer. I told him "Fine...and when you do, I will in turn talk to the sheriff about breaking into my house without permission when I was in Albuquerque. I will also tell them about how you refused to bring my son home before I left for Albuquerque and had him for 2 weeks without my consent. Oh this could get ugly. He responded with "Well, I will bring the sheriff to collect the rest of my things. He was supposed to pick up his tools on May 31....Threatened me for months that he wanted to do this....and then the time came and went and he didn't do anything. No mention of the tools or his B2 tapes that he so badly wants.

Then I guess he called my oldest daughter telling her that she is the only adult in this house. And asked her "Does my 2nd oldest daughter want him at her games this weekend?" Well, she doesn't want to have anything to do with him. If she did, I would gladly allow him to take the kids this weekend to the tournament. Then he said something like "well, if she doesn't I guess I will just stay home and cry".

Now this is after telling me awhile ago that he couldn't go to the tournament this weekend, but he could maybe go the next weekend. I guess it is all about control. I HAAAAAAAAAAATE this whole divorce mess.

I really don't understand what he thought life was going to be like--that we would all roll over, be happy and move on. Well, we are moving on---and he doesn't like the direction we are moving in---and of course he is blaming it all on me.

QUESTION: How long does he have to get the tools, etc. that he was supposed to pick up May 31st? Does he have an endless time limit? Anytime he gets mad, he threatens to do it...and then never does. I haven't said anything, because I do use them and I am almost getting to the point where we are going to start work on the unfinished room he left us with. Anybody know how that works?

Hi Pat,

I'm really sorry this just seems to continue on and on for you. You have so much patience, I am in awe.

About the Tools and his B2 tapes thingy. Well, my ex-H did the same thing if you remember, drug his feet about getting the stuff ... so my attorney told me he'd send a return-receipt-letter for me stating ex-H had till such-n-such a date to pick up his personal belongings, then after that date they would not longer be available to him (i.e., Goodwill candidates).

I ended up taking a different route and plunked all my ex-H's stuff in storage (rented for 2 days), then sent him a letter w/key enclosed and explained the same deadline criteria.

He jumped on it.

Again, I want to say that when I read your posts about what an ******* <sorry mods> your ex-H is it breaks my heart and at times makes me angry. He was lucky to ever even know you, let alone be married to you.

In time he will reap what he has sown. I have no doubt of this.

Love to you,
Jo

Boy do I ever empathize with you! Back in the dayI had an ex that was $13,000.00+ in arrears. It piled up in monthly ordered support of $250.00. That was 4-1/2 years worth!

[QUOTE] How long does he have to get the tools, etc. that he was supposed to pick up May 31st? [QUOTE]

I've got an idea!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Pretend that was an evil grin ok?

Pawn the tools and anything else he has not picked up of value when he doesn't pay his full support to supplement what he did not pay! You can mail the pawn receipt to him so he can pick them up at his leisure!

Think that'd work? He will get pi$$y, oh well! Desperate times call for desperate measures!

Hang in there!

Gayle

P.S. Wave when you are in Omaha.....I'm 150 miles to the west!

<small>[ July 31, 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Ragamuffin ]</small>

Thanks Resilient and Ragamuffin,

Sometimes these situations get so bizaare--the only people who would understand are here or someone who has been through it.

I think I am going to call my lawyer tomorrow and ask him if there was a time limit on when he had to have the tools picked up. A friend of mine said that in his divorce papers it stated that he had to have his belongings picked up by the end of 30 days the decree was finalized. I don't think mine said that tho.

He is a jerk...that is all I can say...he is really a jerk. He left a voice message today saying that he did indeed go whining to his lawyer today....see what becomes of that. He will probably try to get his child support reduced because he isn't making as much money as before. I need to get my rear in gear and start documenting all the infractions he has done. This will never end with him. From the very beginning, I knew he would be like this. Why did I marry this jerk???? Somehow, I have to extract myself from this game that he is playing. I Really don't want to be in this situation for the next 10 years....YUCK!!!

I have been advised by my brother and friend that I should go to the sheriff and report his trespassing in my house when I was in Albuquerque. Then next time when he tries something like that, he will be arrested. I guess I will do that tomorrow.

Anyway, thanks you guys---your answers are always so helpful. EIther one would be a good option--although being able to keep the tools would be even better. Got to get to bed...Thanks again Pat

Good Luck!!!

Hope things get better.

Thanks Sing,

How are you doing? Haven't seen anything from you in awhile?

How are the kids? Pat

Pat,

did you talk to your lawyer?

Hi MNM - Sorry to hear of this latest round of "challenges" you must deal with. Sometimes it seems like it will never end, doesn't it? Peace of mind and peace at heart seem so elusive...please know and take pride in the fact that you are dealing with everything the right way, and although it doesn't "pay the bills", it IS what God would have us do. Your kids are no doubt proud of you. All their lives they will have that to hold onto.
Someday, hopefully not to long from now, you will look back and say, I did it. Stood toe to toe and didn't back down. Take care.

Hi miserymissouri,

I kinda feel like I'm "butting in" and won't say much except "Trust God." Seriously. Trust the Lord. He can provide your financial needs. He can take care of you. There is alot of bitterness, anger, and sorrow in divorce. I encourage you to pour your heart out to the Lord, to quiet yourself before Him, and to seek Him. If you dwell too much on your husband's wrongdoing, it may only leave you bitter and angry. I also encourage you to be in a good church. Maybe you are? I don't know, but worshipping God will help you get through this and also, I encourage you to ask your church for financial help... that is what they are there for! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God bless and may God give you peace and strength as you go through this very sorrowful and painful time.

Dear Sing,Broken X 3, LoveMyEx,

Thank you for your posts. Yes, I have contacted my lawyer. He sounded amused at first. Stated that I am lucky to be rid of this jerk...etc. etc. etc. Finally, I got mad and said "Yea, we all know he is a jerk...but what do I do about him?" Can he just arbitrarily reduce his child support? Can he continue to make threats about getting his things and then not come by and get them? Can he come into my house without permission? Does he have to give me notification of visitation? My lawyer saw that I was serious and upset and finally said to come in and see him next week.In the meantime, he said to give him his tools. So, I got off the phone, gathered his things and put them on the boulevard.

At 6:00, he came to pick up the kids. Called me--ranting and raving saying that I was in contempt of court--I had no right to put his tools outside without notifying him. I told him that he had been threatening to pick them up for a year, he hadn't done so and I was tired of the threats. "Take your things and go?" He was irrate. He took his "I love me" poster and the family video tapes and left the tools. He took my two younger kids and left--left two messages that he had already contacted his lawyer about this--that I had to do this through his office--Right!!

Went to the Nebraska tournament...the kids did great. They won the tournament. I had a great time with my daughter. Drove home a little more relaxed. Walked in the door and received a message from my ex saying that he wasn't bringing the kids home--he was going to keep them until Thursday. I couldn't believe it.
I called--he refused to answer--finally an hour and 1/2 later, he calls me back saying he was keeping the kids for his "summer vacation". That didn't go over well.

Well, I spent the next 3 hours at the police department. They had to work through the Lees Summit police. By the time it was over, it was like 3 in the morning. He finally agreed to bring the kids home the next morning. Then I checked my mail....

His lawyer sent me a letter saying that they were bringing me up on contempt charges for
Not giving him his two week summer vacation
Not allowing the kids to go to the reunion
Not allowing the kids phone access
Letting my current "paramour" watch them when I went to my Aunt's funeral

That was about it....I was livid. This is from an alcoholic, immoral, lier....

They said I had to reply by August 11, or contempt charges would be filed in court. Now, when I talked to my lawyer on Friday....he vaguely mentioned that Ex's lawyer had sent a letter. He said "I have it here somewhere." No mention of anything like what was said.

I sat up all night composing a 7 page rebuttal. This whole thing is so damn ridiculous. Why can this man continue to be in contempt of court, trespass in my house, not bring the kids back when he is supposed to, violate the parenting plan by having his whore in the apt both before the divorce and after the divorce, not pay his portion of the bills, place drunken phone calls with my children, upset them emotionally....and get away with it?

Luckily, I have kept records to answer all of his accusations. My friend is just a friend--and though the kids love him--there is nothing inappropriate there. They are friends with his kids--and they have sleepovers here and at his mother's house. I have records of the attempts to call him when he was needed to watch the kids--and he was on vacation in Florida with his whore. Etc. Etc.

I have records of all the times he has seen the kids. Oh well...

Last night, my oldest daughter came in from work sobbing....I thought something had happened. No, just more alcoholic irrationality between her and her father. He attacked her--because he wanted her to tell him what she thought--so she finally told him again....and he didn't like what he heard. Almost the same conversation that he had with my other daughter last May. He really has a screw loose.

I made an appt for Thursday morning with my lawyer. He had better do something for me this time. If Jim wants to go back to court--that is fine with me. I have had it....at least this time, I am not hurt or sad....I am ANGRY!!!

I have had enough of his controlling behavior. And he had better start following the divorce decree...because I will record every infraction from now on. No more flexibility, no more understanding....I have had enough!!!

Need everyone's prayers though...I don't trust our court system. We will see.

Thanks again for your care and concern...Pat

Oh Boy!!!!

Latest developements today....he left a voice message for my oldest daughter today. He said "Oh, I love you. Leslie and I want you to be her maid of honor at the wedding. We already have dresses for you and your sisters and a tux for K.

The wedding is in Oct. on a Sunday! The kids aren't out of school then. They don't have any days off then. Also, two of my daughters have a tournament in KC that weekend. What is he thinking.

The worst thing is...my daughter hesitated when she told me this. This is after last night....I can tell...this is going to be another fiasco....Any advice????

The thought of my kids being in that wedding repulses me. To condone what they have done? YUCK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Pat

Oh Yuck,

Just came in from the yard work...talking to my neighbors.

My ex left a message...all cheery..."Hi K & K...it's about 8:30...I expect a call from you tonight before you go to bed. Just want to call and tell you how much I love you. I will be calling you every Tues, Thurs, and Sunday about this time to talk to you. I can't wait to hear from you. Dad

You know it would be ok if he was sincere...but he is just making another play for the kids. Nothing like screaming at the kids in an alcoholic rage one night and then leaving loving messages the next. The kids saw what he did to my oldest daughter last night.

I feel like I am back in the twilight zone again. How am I supposed to get beyond this man? I feel like I am about ready to loose it. Help me Please....Pat

Pat,

Sorry that things are still going really bad for you. As much as you may not like it you have to let & help the kids do what they want and be able to show to the court that how you are supporting your kids that you are trying to keep them from their dad. Pain yes.

Thinking of you.

Sing,

I have let the kids be with him. I have let them see him...even when he has been in violation of the court decree.

Now, this week, he is saying he is going to lower my child support by $800 and next month also. He has created emotional havac here with the kids and with me.

I don't understand....except that he wants what he wants, with no regard for anyone else. For gosh sakes---he is buying bridesmaids dresses---how can he not afford child support?

I go back to school next week. I have to buy the kids school clothes, supplies, etc. I have to pay for this tournament this weekend. My oldest goes back to college on Saturday--I haven't paid her tuition yet. I have bills to pay here. I don't know what I am going to do. I don't know---I don't know. I haven't been able to sleep since I got home from Omaha.

He has the nerve to tell my daughter--oh I love you. I hope you will consider being in the wedding--it will be so much fun.

I don't know if I can do this anymore. This experience is supposed to make me stronger--but I feel like I am back at the start---a huge emotional mess. Pat

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 09:50 AM: Message edited by: miserynmissouri ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he is buying bridesmaids dresses---how can he not afford child support? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Pat, I wondered the exact same thing!

I feel so sorry for your kids, this has to be wearing on them!

Taking YOU to court for contempt, ya right!

Do you think it is time to ask your lawyer for some help with having contact through a third party regarding the children?

Do you document and his messages from the answering machine, save them and play them for your attorney to hear? I sure would! I think this is harrassment!

As a matter of fact could you NOT have an answering machine for messages like the good ol' days? There is no legal requirement.

All of my messages go through my local phone companies voice mail service. It is $6.96 per month. Having the service is HEAVEN! You dial up the service number, put in your code you have chosen and listen, then save or delete messages. Your kids wouldn't have to bear the brunt alone at home and not wonder whether they should tell you or not. I do have a newer phone made for this service only, it has a red light that blinks when someone has left you a message.

That's it! A third party for a go between and no answering machine! You could get some peace within your own home so you can get your bearings.

You are the "glue" for your kids and probably always will be because your ex can't see two feet in front of his drunk/now I'm sober ego!

Glad you guys came here to Nebraska and kicked booty!

Gayle

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Ragamuffin ]</small>

Thanks Gayle,

I don't have that service...but I am going to check into turning off my recorder--especially when I think he may call. We are in and out so often, I hate to get rid of it completely because that is how I get a lot of my information for stuff.

I am amazed at how much of a toll this takes out on me. I feel miserable today...just drained. It will be interesting to see what my lawyer says tomorrow morning. I am going to go to radio shack and try to buy a simple tape recorder to try and record the messages he left on my phones and also on Meg's cell phone.

I just wish this man would leave us alone. I knew this would happen when we got divorced. He has justified his actions so much that he is really sick. He really believes it too. What a tremendous ego he has.

He doesn't accept what the kids tell them--and he continually attacks me. I am the evil person that caused all this mess--I have such a hard time figuring out how he can do this to me. I never did anything to hurt him--ever.

It sure is getting old.

How have you been? I don't get on as much as I used to be able to--just too much to do around here. Thanks for your post. Pat

Pat,

Did you recorder? you can tape like that, we did last yr when some girl had OS phone & was calling & leaving stupid messages on his voice mail.

The voice mail works really well, better than answering machine.

Good luck with your lawyer. Hope he can help.

Thanks Sing,

No, I still need to get a recorder. I thought I had one--but I haven't been able to find it. I think I will take a trip to Wal Mart. Wish I could get them recorded before my lawyer appt tomorrow. Will see.

Please keep me in your prayers...I hope we can do something to stop this man. Pat

All the shenanighans are annoying enough, but when money is at stake (survival money), it is a whole nother ball game. I feel for ya pat, and your choices are fairly limited....here's my thoughts in no particular order.

1. The usual advice first, let it (him) go, he is not going to behave the way you want him too, and if he is as off the wall as you post, trying to keep up, make sense, will just drive you crazy...and conflict in and of itself, tends to keep the craziness going....as distasteful as it may be, my advice is to be nice (certainly firm though) as possible, accomodateing as possible, and no fighting, drama, etc. That may evoke a more cooperative response from him. In addition i would detail all the financial needs (especially of the kids), in writing, give it to him, and tell him you cannot do all of this, ask him what the kids will go without. Include your kids in this discussion. The business about dresses but no money for child support is a big red flag for sure, I am just saying though, don't use it against him, just won't work. And whatever he agrees too, even if it is minimal, or nothing at all, just thank him for listening/problem solving with you.

2. Let the kids (especially 2 older ones) work out their own relationship, don't try to referee or protect them, it just confuses the issue, and keeps you stirred up. Like it or not, they are stuck with him, and must learn through hard experience how and where to set their own boundaries. This does not mean you shouldn't mentor them about behaviour and relationships, just don't try to run interference, a tightrope for sure, but by keeping yourself out of that loop you can work on your own relationship with them. It is hard not to defend yourself, especially if the other spouse is not treating you fairly with re to kids, but they will see the truth more easily, if you do not muddy the waters with defensive posturing.

3. Take the law into your own hands. I think in most states you can manage your own post divorce compliance issues. See how that works for you, and become an expert at the system. You will save money (something I know that drives you nuts when you have to turn to the lawyer cause of ex baloney), and feel more in control which will help your mental state.

4. You are doing a good job of documenting (it sounds like) keep it up, be absolutely anal about it, the legal system LOVES records, and generally ignores feelings, etc. Stick to the facts as they apply to the legal realities of your state.

5. Empower your kids to make their own choices. Such as the wedding vs sports committments. It is ok to tell them they should do what they want, and not be afraid to express their feelings to dad, but to expect a negative reaction. Teaching them how to set boundaries and not be manipulated is very important life training. On the other hand if they choose to particpate don't overtly or subtley try to undermine that choice either.

Likewise the vacation thing. Rather than sic the cops on exH, did you first ascertain whether the kids minded staying with him? Did you really need to engage in battle even if he was dead wrong? I don't know, maybe it was necessary for them to come home, but if not, perhaps you could have used your agreeing to his high handed action as an opportunity to deescalate the hostilities...ya know? This head to head war will do nothing but drain money from both of you, hurt the kids, and reduce much needed cooperation. Maybe you could apologize, telling him you know he just wants to spend time with the kids, and overreacted partly due to the financial stress you are under. Who knows, maybe he won't care...but maybe he will, and then been a little more willing to be financially responsible. Maybe your H is a complete narcisstic, sociopathic loser, and nothing makes any difference but brute force, I don't know, only you do, so this is just food for thought.

6. I am unsure if this applies or not, realizing you may vent here more than in real life. But I strongly advise not to demean or trash your exH girlfriend, nothing but illwill comes from such actions, and just makes your life that much harder....I doubt the fleeting (and useless) feeling of satisfaction at insulting or belittling her is of much value to your healing and well-being, compared to the consequences such animosity automatically generates (human behaviour 101). In fact, if you can make a decision to do so, treating her with courtesy, respect and basic civility would probably reap substantial benefits... regardless of how she acts or not.

7. It seems like you may (and understandable) be trying to do a little to much for the kids, be careful not to burn yourself out, and let them carry some of the burden too. You may already be doing this, just continue to do so.

Good luck pat, it may get worse before it gets better, but a good attitude and a willing spirit will get you to a good place in due time.

<small>[ August 06, 2003, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: sufdb ]</small>

MNM, I can "hear" the weariness in your posts...I'm so sorry. A dear friend of mine sent me an e-mail once that made me smile in the midst of all the madness...she said she knew the saying that God only gives us the trials we can stand, but don't I sometimes feel like saying, okay God, I'm strong enough, no need to kill me! There are days like that.
I don't know why there is such a common thread among WS's in their desire to somehow punish us, the spouses that they vowed to love and cherish all their lives...maybe they feel that in some way we will pay for their sins. I hate to sound to "deep" about this, I don't mean to, but it is something I have seen in my own stbx, a trait that was never there before (to my knowledge). The greed, the need to continue some sort of control, the need to somehow be in our lives still, even when the ink is dry on the paper. I just don't understand. It's almost a cry for attention.
I know my ramblings don't help your situation at all, I wish I could, but I do understand your frustration and pain.
I hope your lawyer kicks a$$ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Dear sufbd,

Thank you for your post...much food for thought.

You know, I have been accomodating for him...and he hasn't reciprocated. I don't think he realizes yet what he has done to this family financially and emotionally. He would like everything to just move merrily along....and there is too much damage for that to happen. Unfortunately, he is an alcoholic...and he has been drinking more and more. He is totally irrational when drunk. That doesn't help any of us when trying to deal with him. The weird thing with him is that after one of these abusive drunken episodes....he bends over backwards to be nice. He has done that as long as I have known him. If you could have seen me cradling my oldest daughter the other night after one of his drunken episodes. It was so sad. This isn't the first time he has done it either. She tries to work and relate to him between times--but you just never know what will set him off.

As far as his bimbo is concerned...we have no respect for her at all. She knew from the very first night that she met, kissed and slept with him that he was married and had 4 kids. She tried to force herself on all four of my kids before we had even thought of a divorce--or at least I didn't know about it. She attends everything in this small town, and the kids are embarrased by her. She is almost the same age as my oldest daughter. Now, she is trying to be a friend to all of us. She will never know what she has done to this family--she is not capable of it. Also, when he rants and raves in one of his tirades--she doesn't stand up for the kids--a role I always played.

Unfortunately, with my ex, he is still trying to control this household even though he gave us up. When I give him a little, he just keeps trying to get more control.

I have been trying to maintain control around him--but he sure knows how to push buttons.

The other night he called here about 9:30. I was on the phone. It kept buzzing so I flashed over and it was him. This is the night after the police episode and the lawyer letter. He asked, "Who's this..". I have only been with this man for 25 years--"I said who are you calling for." He asked to speak to K. I said "Sure just a minute" I started to give the phone to K, when I remembered I was on the other line. I told him he would have to call back. He then called my cell phone saying. "See you are not letting me talk to the kids again. I have documented this and I will see you in court". Well, I didn't know he had put that on my cell phone. So, when I got off the phone, I had my son call him.....that is the kind of crap I have to put up with. It is definitely not fun.

Thanks Broken X 3,

I hope it goes well tomorrow at the lawyer's also. I am just so tired of the petty foolishness. I am tired of fighting.

But most of all, I want to protect the kids from his irrationality.

It is hard. Well, I had better get to bed--I bet it will be a long day tomorrow.

Hey m&m...

I have been following this... hugs and prayers...

All I can say is to have FAITH and do what is RIGHT... as long as you do right, he won't have a LEG to stand on.

It takes two to make it a fight or an argument and he will look pretty silly when you don't rebut. Don't participate in his shenanigans... don't let HIM get YOU riled up... it is not worth your peace of mind...

Do let the kids negotiate what goes on between them. DON't pick up his slack. Don't rescue him. Let him deal with the consequences. After a certain age you can't MAKE children visit... Let the kids make the decision BUT make him do all the arrangements and payment... THEIR visits to HIM are NOT your problem... my mom did nothing except ask when we were leaving and when we were returning.

Hugs and prayers,
Cali

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Cali:
<strong>Hey m&m...

I have been following this... hugs and prayers...

All I can say is to have FAITH and do what is RIGHT... as long as you do right, he won't have a LEG to stand on.

It takes two to make it a fight or an argument and he will look pretty silly when you don't rebut. Don't participate in his shenanigans... don't let HIM get YOU riled up... it is not worth your peace of mind...

Do let the kids negotiate what goes on between them. DON't pick up his slack. Don't rescue him. Let him deal with the consequences. After a certain age you can't MAKE children visit... Let the kids make the decision BUT make him do all the arrangements and payment... THEIR visits to HIM are NOT your problem... my mom did nothing except ask when we were leaving and when we were returning.

Hugs and prayers,
Cali</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sufdb...yep.

Hey Cali and Sufdb,

Good to hear from you both..I know I need to withdraw from this mess...maybe now I will be able to do that when he sees that he can't just keep running over me. I did file reports on him this time---guess I should have done that when I had a restraining order on him. Then, maybe he wouldn't have been pushing so hard.

I know the wedding will be a problem...and hopefully, the kids will be able to tell him what they want to do. It is going to be hard because they don't have any days off of school then, they all probably have soccer that weekend, and he is getting married on a Sunday afternoon in southern Florida. He didn't even consider the kids when planning this wedding. (He did plan it on his father's birthday--which has always come first with him.)

The kids are afraid to have disagreements with him because he is so irrational. The drinking makes it worse. I am really going to encourage them to hang up when they feel he has been drinking. You can't rationalize with someone who has been drinking. Sometimes though, he is hard to rationalize with even when he hasn't been drinking. He is always Right!!

Oh well--I feel like a weight has been taken off today. We are off to Omaha again tomorrow. My daughter is going to miss her birthday party--we wouldn't have time to drive up on Saturday because of her first game being too early. So, I am going to take them to the zoo tomorrow. I heard it is great.

We won't get home again until late Sunday night--then off to work for me on Monday. Hard to believe it is already time to go back to work--where did the summer go?

Thank you all for your prayers and advice. I will definitely try to do better in this situation so that we don't end up like we did this week. Thanks again...Pat

Sorry,

I posted originally...and lost it. I met with my lawyer this morning. I presented him with my response to ex's letter...he thought it was great.

He is going to write to ex's lawyer...and submit my letter...and tell him to go ahead and file contempt charges. We will be prepared, if necessary to take him to court and have a judge decide the parenting issues.

So, I guess it went ok. I do feel like a big weight has been taken off. Better Run Pat

Pat,

glad you talked to your lawyer.

Have a good wkend.

We went back on today. Fun. However I have been in & out of the building for 2 wks

Hey Sing,

Thanks....I should be doing so much tonight. I am going to be gone all weekend and then back to work. I can't tho...I am just dead, physically and emotionally. I haven't felt like this in a long time.

Boy, you really went back early. I thought we were early next week. What happened to starting after Labor Day? I think they are trying to get year round school going eventually.

I sure wish I was ready to go back, but unfortunately, I feel physically drained. I didn't get half of the things done that I wanted to this summer. Oh well...Thanks for your posts...Pat