I had an affair for 6 yrs which ended a over a year ago, when the OW showed up at my door and my wife found out. We had been working on staying together. Unfortunately I went back to the OW once, and almost as god's punishment OW got pregnant. The OC was born a couple of months ago. OW and I agreed to keep it secret, she didn't even want me in the child's life. So I thought everything was settled and I could work on rebuilding my marriage and my family (one child). To my surprise a couple of days ago I was served with paternity papers, they were handed to my wife while I was out. My wife was devastated and now wants out of the marriage. She says that she wants to separate to figure things out, but I suspect the already contacted a divorce attorney (I saw some emails). I desperately want to save my marriage, because I do love my wife and my son too much (which I didn't really show for the last few years). Many of my wife's female friends got divorced recently. She has told a couple of them and they of course tell her to get out of the marriage, because "once a cheater, always a cheater" and their own anger over their divorce. I know that this has been so traumatic for me that I will never cheat again. How can I convince my wife to try to rebuild?

Fullmoon,

Welcome to MB. You KNOW that keeping the break in NC and the resuming of the PA was going to destroy your BW, yet you did it. THEN on top of that continued betrayal you LIED to her by not telling her of the OC. Exactly how do you expect to her to ever trust you? You say the A lasted 6 years? Did you ever go complete NC with OW? Did you attend the birth of the OC? Have you seen the OC?

You see, the A didn't "end" if the secrets between you and OW continued.

What are you willing to do to show your BW that you want your marriage? What exactly does the OW want besides CS? What do you want? Do you want contact with the OC? Has DNA been done yet?

If you really, really want you M to succed and not end in D. You are going to need to do several things and STILL it will be an uphill battle.

1. DNA
2. NC for LIFE with OW
3. NC with OC if that is what your BW wants. SHE gets to drive the boat in this regard.
4. Polygraph proving there are no more lies.
5. (most important) Learn and implement the MB principles in your life and marriage
6. Write a NC letter approved and mailed by your BW to the OW.
7. If you are a man of faith you need to do a full confession to the members and leaders or whereever it is you worship.

more to come...

Oh and "how do you convince your BW"? By changing, not by words but by deeds. See list above.

Faithful Follower, you are absolutely right. I am the one who did the cheating and lying and I deserve no mercy. There has been NC with the OW since the OC was conceived, except for one visit after OC was born. I agree with all of your suggested actions and am fully willing to do everything necessary. And I fully understand that my BW drives the boat in this.

FullMoon..

If you follow the belief that the BW "drives the boat" here in all aspects, great resentment is going to brew at some point.

You know you were wrong, you know that you affected the people that you love greatly, but how things are handled from this point out in regards to the child from the affair must be something that you, too, can live with..

You are human, too, and have begun to show that by even being on this site.

I wish you well and pray for your recovery,

Eibrab

I agree with Eibrab that Dr. Harleys POJA (policy of joint agreement) is EXACTLY avoid the resentment she mentions. However UNTIL you prove yourself trustworthy, your BW does indeed need to "drive the boat". Once you are in marital recovery, then you can readdress the contact with OC issue. It is vital you be upfront and honest with your BW regarding your feelings about contact. Keep in mind also, that as she begins to trust you again her feelings about the OC may change as well.

My H and I just began C with the 4 y/o OC. It is going well.

God bless.

Thanks for the advice. I just signed up for this site today, so I still have to go through a lot of the tools that are offered here. I hope I will be able to regain my BW's trust at some point. Right now, from her express desire to separate, I am not very hopeful.

Fullmoon, if you are really serious about saving your M and truly repentent I suggest you familiarize yourself thoroughly with Dr Harley's concepts and plan A your wife.

I don't have much time right now, but your W has been through 2 very big shocks and is reeling from it. You will need to go through some long term and consistant changes to prove to her that you are worth the trouble.

So tell us more about your M. How long married? Only one child with your wife? Where did you meet the OW?

I am more than serious about saving my M and extremely remorseful, to the point that I cannot eat or sleep. Every time I think about it I start crying. I am fully aware of the pain I have inflicted, and I am actually thankful that she is still talking to me. She has a big heart, but at this point I might have messed it up so badly that there is little hope of reconciliation. Anyway, we've know eachother for 18 years, lived together for 16, married for 14. One child together, who we both love tremendously. Met OW on the Internet shortly after I lost my job and apparently had too much time on my hands. The whole thing took on a life on itself. Never thought I would ever do anything like that. - Anyway, I am thankful for any advice and support I can get.

Wow, you sound a lot like my H. He allegedly has twin daughters ages 7 with an OW. They have been raised as the OW H children. He apparently knows they are not his kids but has raised them as his. He also knows about the A; amazinly he "accidentaly" found out about a 48 hours after my first visit with the divorce attorney. When the OW though my H was available, boy did she make room for my H. But now my H and the OW are basically NC and her H has moved back with her... convenient..

There is no DNA and given the things she has tried to lie to my H about in the past I don't know what to believe. But, she refuses DNA so what does that tell you.

My advice is first, you cannot contact the OW. Your deeply ingrained behavior patterns with her are set. You cannot "just be friends" because you can't go back, just like in your marriage, you can't go back and undo the damage. It is an addiction. To sex, ego stroking, fun, chemistry... what ever.

Second, if you do slip up, you need to be totally honest and pro active with her. My kids bashed in the TV last weekend. It was an accident but a very expensive one. My daughter called crying and apologetic. Did I yell at her? No. If I would have come home and found it broken would I have blown up and grounded her, yep, probably. I was angry but I respected her honesty. Don't lie, either outwardly or lies of omission.

I have found little secret messages and my H went as far as having the OW buy him a cell phone to call her with because he know I could check his calls on his cell phone. Oh, and by the way, he says it's all about the kids. Well, there were no messages about the kids on that phone, just sexual inuendo and flirting.

I gave them the chance to have a relationship "just about the kids" and they failed miserably. I know he really wants to be involved with the kids and I know he tried but I also know it was impossible for him to do. I could have lived with the kids in my life if SHE wasn't but they couldn't do it. He tossed away a chance to have a relationship with the kids because he couldn't stop being sexually drawn to her.

Congratulations on participating here. I wish you well, but take it from me, her nerves are raw and you poured salt on the healing wound and ripped it open again. I think you'll make it. I hope so. How is IC going?

Thanks for all the support and advice. Since I'm new to this site and the acronyms, what does IC stand for?

IC is individual counselor

yes, I am seeing an IC. And my BW and I have been in counseling together since the A originally was discovered. She even agreed to see our counselor again together, not that the situation with the OC has come to light. I have had NC with OW and OC except for one visit right after the OC was born three months ago and a recent short email exchange regarding the paternity petition she filed. What troubles me right now is that I found out that my BW has asked a friend for legal referrals. Not sure what she is planning to do. We are still in the same house together (I sleep on the couch in the office now) and she treats me well. She is a very classy person.

Do the honorable thing and protect your COM (child of the marriage) by setting up a legal support before the OC situation gets to court. You and BW can get an attorney to work up what the figure would be. In my state you can live together while legally separated. Not all states allow it but your BW would likely feel much more secure if she could see you have her and your COM best interest at heart.

You might also consider if she is willing to stay married, setting up a post nuptial agreement giving everything to her, including custody of your child if you cheat again.

That's an interesting consideration. Certainly food for thought. Thanks again.

I guess right now I just have to be patient and give my BW time. I know she is planning to talk to an attorney, but I'm not 100% sure of the full intentions of that, whether it is just to find out what the law is in case we separate or divorce or if she is actually starting proceedings. I told her that I am now following the Policy of Radical Honesty. So she knows everything I feel and she knows everything I do. I don't expect that from her at this point. She's still pretty numb from what happened.

I still think depending on your state laws, you need to financially protect her and your child before OW gets her support order. I don't think you know how these CS orders can decimate a family.

You have said that the A is over and there is NC, EXCEPT for one last sexual liaison, EXCEPT for a visit after OC was born, EXCEPT for email exchances, EXCEPT ?????. How can your BW possibly believe you?

You say she knows everything you know and do. I really doubt that. You have to be able to back up words with action. You have not done this. I am sorry. This does not look hopeful.

AM

Armymama, I don't know what angers you about what I said. Let me reiterate: After that last sexual liaison more than a year ago, there has been no physical contact with OW, except once to see the OC right after OC was born. The email exchanges were purely about the paternity petition. I considered signing a voluntary acknowledgment of paternity to avoid the whole court mess. That's what it was about. I do not want any contact with OW, but I am trying to figure out what my relationship with OC should be. And when you talk about backing up my words with actions, what do you suggest? Should I just abandon OC just to have absolutely NC with OW?

Faithful Follower, I have an appointment with an attorney before the paternity hearing. My BW might actually join me for that, because we are aware that we have to protect BW and COM.

Awesome. Fullmoon, 6 years is a long term affair. Have you thought about why it lasted so long? Why you started the affair? was your BW suspicious? What are changing in yourself to ensure this won't happen again.

yes, I have tried and am still trying to fully discover why the A happened in the first place and why it lasted so long. I've been in therapy for the last year. I think one thing that will prevent this from ever happening again is rebuilding a fulfilling relationship with BW. But of course that's not all. I am so committed to making this work again. Unfortunately right now my BW seems to be going into the other direction, which I can understand. I am just trying to find ways to turn her around without pushing her. I know she needs her time.

BW just had an appointment with attorney to sort out the legal situation around separation/divorce. I had a subsequent conversation with BW about her plans and that I still want to work on rebuilding the marriage. I even followed "Faithful Followers" suggestion and proposed to BW the idea of a post-nuptial agreement giving her everything, including full custody of COM, if I should ever cheat on her again. She didn't comment on that proposal, so I am no step further.

FullMoon,

This is going to take time and patience. You are going to need to prove to your BW through ACTIONS that you are a changed man. You go to an atty and have him write up the post nup. You get into plan A and woo your wife back. You do the heavy lifting here, with or without her cooperation. No saying you have "changed", PROVE it.

Read over on GQ2 forum. See how much the BS's have suffered. 6 years is a very long time and the OC situation is huge. I can't begin to tell you how much it hurt me to know my H's DNA was used to create another child outside our M. To top it off, you and OW made decisions about the OC without your W's knowledge.

Get the book "Surviving An Affair" or better yet, sign up for a MB weekend.

Faithful, thank you so much for your support. This really helps. It makes me understand things that I might otherwise not understand. I know my BW is a wonderful person deep inside. But I am so confident that our marriage can work again. I just want to open her up to that possibility, as remote it sounds to her right now.

FullMoon, my H just this last Sunday went before our church and confessed his A and told them about his 4 y/o OC. He spoke beautifully of God's love for him which he does not deserve and how thankful he is for my and our children's forgiveness. He asked our church to help us raise the OC to know Jesus. It took him soooooooo long to come to this point, FM. Not all BS's would wait that long. For me knowing that I was once a WW and that I radically changed, always gave me hope that he would as well. Plus, I wanted to protect my children from ever having contact with the xOW.

Today I am thankful I waited on God to save my marriage and am grateful my H is a better man. I want that for you, as well.

Fullmoon,

Listen to Faithful she has helped many here. Something she missed that I think you need to do. Get yourself into IC (individual counseling) you need to find out what happened to you to allow you to think that this was ever okay to protect you from yourself and doing it again.

My FWH has been NC since the CS hearing, from dday to CS hearing his only C was with my full knowledge of everything. He even taped any telephone calls. He is, was remorseful, doing everything.

Read this website in depth, if you can get your Wife to read as well. This is a chance for you to help her heal and to rebuild your M. It can be done but it will not be this week, this month, or this year. We just crossed the four year mark for dday.

Thank God we have not heard from OW for the last 18 months, I expect she will come crying to our door again soon. Your wife, in order to accept you and work on your M, has to except that OW and OC will be out there circling for the next twenty years of her life. If she doesn't file for CS from you first, then she will receive less than OW will for OC. You must protect your family and your COM from the OW.

This means you have to see the OW as the bad person, not the BS. The OW is an interloper, she willingly did things to harm your wife and your COM, as did you. This is why you need counseling, to heal and also to learn to forgive yourself. My H has a difficult time when I am in pain, because he knows his selfishness is the cause. Even when the difficulty is paying bills, he knows that the CS he is paying to OW would make all the difference in the world to us.

Good luck

FTS

ps... I think I missed a page but I am leaving it anyway

I do not recommend signing the declaration of paternity voluntarily. You need your BW on board with EVERYTHING you do in regards to the OC or you have no hope for recovery.

Thank you for the advice, FledTheState. I appreciate any comments and suggestions. Anything helps. - Update for today: I was in court today for the paternity hearing. I went with an attorney, because I absolutely want to protect my BW's and my COM's rights and assets. As I suspected it turns out that OW is still legally married. According to my state's law, OW's husband is considered the father of the OC, until proven otherwise. My hearing was adjourned until June. It is expected that at that hearing the judge will order me to have a DNA test done, which is likely to prove me as the father of OC. All this is basically doing right now is buying me time. My BW suggests to speak to my attorney to find out if we can avoid all this by me volunteering to take a DNA test. Any opinions?

It depends on your state laws. Most states require the BH to deny paternity in order to bring DNA testing in from an outsider. You can ask your atty if you can petition the court to allow you to submit a DNA test or you can take the extra time and get the financials done for your BW and COM first.

Since your BW wants DNA done sooner than later, ask your attorney for guidance.

Um, uh huh. Sure.

Maybe I would have believed it if you had said
I know this has been so traumatic FOR MY WIFE that I know I will never HURT HER LIKE THIS again.

If she wants out, you deserve what you got.

Six year affair? Really? Why did you bother getting married at all?

Catperson, I just read your last comment. It appears that you have not read the entire thread, because you are referring only to my very first post. In other posts I talk a lot about the hurt and pain I inflicted on my BW and how genuinly sorry I am for having done so. I am truly looking for help and advice on this board to safe my marriage.

No, I read the whole thing. But you still say that YOU hurt too much to do it again. I just choose not to believe you. My right. If you were entitled enough to HIDE that long of an affair from your wife, you don't suddenly turn into Gandhi just because you saw her cry.

It's easy to be strong for 6 months. What about 6 more years, when the two of you stop taking extra steps to 'be in love' any more, and another woman starts talking to you and meeting your needs?

Give me concrete evidence that your heart and soul are no longer capable of resisting this OW or any other woman who strokes your ego, and I'll reconsider.

fwiw, you're making the right moves, taking the right steps. I just don't believe you are motivated enough to make it stick. I hope you prove me wrong.

Catperson, what do you know about me? Barely anything. It actually upsets me you are drawing conclusion from a few statements. It is almost destructive. I thought this was a support site to help people. - Anyway, which of my statements make you believe that I am not motivated enough? - Believe me, I am more than motivated, to the point that I took up Faithful's suggestion and proposed to my BW that I am willing to sign a post-nuptial agreement giving her all assets and full custody of my COM should I ever cheat on her again. Furthermore, I am working with an attorney to make sure that my BW and COM are financially protected in regards to the upcoming CS claims for the OC. In terms of the OW, there is not the slightest feeling for her left. I saw her in court on Tuesday. And that's the only place I want to see her, if I am forced to. I didn't even talk to her and had no desire to. My attorney did the talking for me. I am also in IC with a psychologist. And my BW has agreed to continue counseling together, which makes me really happy. - Anyway, I think I am doing all the things I need to do to prove that I am serious. - What other concrete evidence are you looking for? Give me examples and I can respond to them. I am thankful for any constructive advice I can get.

I'm drawing a conclusion from your actions for the last decade. For an affair that didn't end because you felt bad, but because you got caught.

I'm glad you are taking those steps, really I am. But an
affair that lasted that long tells me that you have not placed your wife above you. Maybe you did get a wakeup call and all is different. I just don't see how you can go from lying to her day in and day out for 6 years - deliberately placing your happiness above hers every day - and then just suddenly going 'what was I thinking?'

I'm talking to you this way because I am afraid that you are in a manic phase of your recovery, one that makes YOU feel good because you're doing all the right things, you're getting a subconscious high out of being the new knight in shining armour, and that this is a false payoff.

I want to know, 5 years from now, when you are not getting strokes from your wife any more for putting out all this sudden effort, if the core problem that caused you to be so callous toward her in the first place will not resurface? After all, you deserve to be happy, right? Isn't that what got you here in the first place?

I want to know if, when you start having issues fitting both families into your life, you aren't going to get defensive when your W falls apart, and just leave her, cos it's easier than to deal with the guilt you are now going to have for the rest of you and your children's lives.

Love is about wanting your MATE to be happy first, not yourself. I see a lot of catch-up effort on your part to make things right, and I see you starting up counseling. I just want to see that you are using the counseling for the RIGHT reasons, not just to fix the current problem (i.e., getting caught).

Catperson, you are entitled to your opinions, but from what do you get all this? Let me comment some of your statements:

Quote: I'm talking to you this way because I am afraid that you are in a manic phase of your recovery, one that makes YOU feel good because you're doing all the right things, you're getting a subconscious high out of being the new knight in shining armour, and that this is a false payoff

Where did I say that I feel good because I'm doing the right things? In fact I feel horrible. And where do you get this "knight in shining armour" stuff? This does absolutely not describe me at all.

Quote: if the core problem that caused you to be so callous toward her in the first place will not resurface

That is exactly why I am in individual counseling and my BW and I are in counseling together. That's why I adopted the Policy of Radical Honesty. That's why I am looking into all the tools suggested here. Isn't that the whole purpose of this website to work on core problems and try to eliminate/avoid them in the future?

Quote: when you start having issues fitting both families into your life

Where do you read that I am trying to fit both families into my life? As I said, I have NO desire to have any contact with OW, except for the court house. So far I have had NC with OC except once for 5 minutes after OC was born (and no, I was not at the delivery), but I don't know how I will feel about that going forward. My BW even suggested that I should make sure that I keep that option open. I do not want to skirt my responsibility. If my BW and I stay together she will have a major influence on if and how contact to OC is going to happen.

Quote: I just want to see that you are using the counseling for the RIGHT reasons, not just to fix the current problem

Where did you read that I am using it for the WRONG reason? Of course I am using it for the right reason, isn't that the whole point?

Quote: Maybe you did get a wakeup call and all is different

Believe me, I did get a wake up call. And it was a massive one. And I am not trying to find excuses for anything I did.


Anyway, you didn't answer the question in my previous post What other concrete evidence are you looking for? Give me examples and I can respond to them. So far you have not provided any constructive suggestions, but rather resorted to seemingly bashing me. Again, I thought this website was here for support, help and advice and not for putting people down.

You are quite blessed to have a W like this. The fact that she could even consider C with OC after the trauma she has been through says a lot about her. POJA is key to all of this from now on. Never do anything without your spouses enthusiastic agreement.

A couple phone sessions with Steve Harley might give you a definitive plan for recovery IF your BW agrees.

What is POJA?

This is advice. I am advising you to make sure you are doing this for the right reasons, and in the right way, so you don't end up in the same place 5 years from now.

I am responding to:

I had an affair for 6 yrs which ended a over a year ago, when the OW showed up at my door and my wife found out. So you left OW because you got caught. That tells me that you would have gone on forever, possibly even raised a second family and hidden it, if you weren't caught. So what, in your character, your moral fiber, is now changed? I am asking you to address that, not who sleeps where.

We had been working on staying together. Unfortunately I went back to the OW once, and almost as god's punishment OW got pregnant. The OC was born a couple of months ago. OW and I agreed to keep it secret, she didn't even want me in the child's life. So you and OW were still in contact and deliberately chose NOT to tell your wife. Honesty? Or is the honesty something you found this week?

So I thought everything was settled and I could work on rebuilding my marriage and my family (one child). Just forgetting that one little secret – that you had another child out there, that you decided your wife didn’t need to know. So if she had not received the paper in the mail, were you going to tell her?

I desperately want to save my marriage, because I do love my wife and my son too much (which I didn't really show for the last few years). Let’s be honest – the last seven years.

Faithful Follower, you are absolutely right. I am the one who did the cheating and lying and I deserve no mercy. There has been NC with the OW since the OC was conceived, except for one visit after OC was born.Did your wife attend this visit with you? No, because you hadn't told your wife. So how are you a different person today than you were a month ago when you weren't GOING to tell her? That's what I'm getting at. Is it just because you got caught and now risk losing her? Is that enough to change your moral character from a cheater to one who doesn't? Why?

I'm not being facetious. I truly want you to be answering these questions, because I don't trust that you can stay faithful and I want to protect your wife and son.

I have had NC with OW and OC except for one visit right after the OC was born three months ago and a recent short email exchange regarding the paternity petition she filed.And then you change your story again, and say ‘oh, and just this little email’.

As faithful follower said, “You see, the A didn't "end" if the secrets between you and OW continued.”

yes, I am seeing an IC. And my BW and I have been in counseling together since the A originally was discovered. She even agreed to see our counselor again together, not that the situation with the OC has come to light.So if you were in counseling together since the A was discovered, why did she need to agree to see your counselor AGAIN, if you were already seeing the counselor together since last year? Were you seeing the counselor together before OC, or not?

When ff suggests a post-nup guaranteeing everything to your wife should you stray again, you say:
That's an interesting consideration. Certainly food for thought. Thanks again.NOT “Exactly! I will do that today to prove to her I’m serious!” Just ‘food for thought’ and an offer to do so. So have you drawn up the papers or not? That was 6 days ago. If you were serious, and wanted to prove yourself, you could have paid your lawyer to have it written and THEN showed it to your wife, instead of just ‘offering’ it Tuesday. ff even suggested it Tuesday - that you go out and get it done anyway, yet you haven’t done it, and you seem to be following ff’s plan. So are you going to do it, or not? Are you serious about protecting your wife from yourself or not?

ff also suggested polygraph, NC letter, and full confession to your church, but you have made no mention of them. I will add to that:

• full confession to your family and hers to make sure they help you NOT stray again
  
• arrange for the polygraph so she can ask whatever questions she wants
  
• give her a list of all passwords you maintain – to everything
  
• give her your phone when you come home every day so she can check it
  
• ask her to meet you for lunch any time she wants (barring work issues) so she can randomly check up on you
  
• write down a timeline of when where what and put it in an envelope and seal it, and hand it to her
  
• ask your wife what SHE has been missing from the marriage, not what YOU have been missing
  
• set up a weekly meeting (Friday night, etc.) where you sit down, face each other, and she is free to ask away anything she wants; separating the time like this helps her stop obsessing all week long, if she can just keep a running list of questions, she will feel like she has more control
  
• if your child is old enough (8+), tell him together what happened for the humility, accountability and moral lesson
  

catperson, that was an AWESOME post.

I think you all need to hold your breaths now. This whole thing just came out not even two weeks ago. Give me some time to figure out what the right things are to do. This is not a bashing site. I am trying to do the right things, but I am getting it from all sides, which doesn't help at all. Help and advice I appreciate, bashing I don't. Not helpful whatsoever. You are in the process of turning me off of this site, a site where I thought I could turn to in search for something good.

FullMoon, if you feel I am bashing you, and if you think the suggestions I gave you - which only mirrored ff's - was wrong, and you are not willing to answer hard questions like 'are you telling the truth or not'...then your wife probably will leave you. Because you have no humility. Only embarrassment.

Humility is asking yourself where you went wrong. Embarrassment is asking everyone else to stop making it worse.

Your wife needs humility from you.

And, no, this is NOT a site for making you feel good. It's a site for learning the hard lessons in how to keep a marriage afloat.

Ah but FullMoon, catperson was not "bashing" you. You are too new into this to fully have your eyes open yet. Some day (I hope) you will look back on some of the tougher posts to you and be thankful. The truth is, your BW has suffered a great trauma at your hands and rubbed salt into her wounds by keeping the OC a secret and making agreements with the OW behind your BW's back. She already knew about the six year A and was willing to work on recovery with you. All of this sets her back to square one. She is dealing with 6 years of having to rewrite the truth of her M and another year of not knowing about the OC.

What catperson wrote to you was truth to open your eyes. If you run off, chances are your M will not recover. Not because "we" can make your M survive, but because it shows you are not fully repentent yet.

Not many people would go through all the repeated trauma and false recoveries I went through. I have PTSD from it all. 5 years later we are just really beginning to recover. I don't want ANYONE to have to go through what I did. My H can NOW see that if he just stepped up and not lied to me to appease the xOW, we would be further along in our recovery and OC would know us all better by now.

So we are muddling through all of my pain, anger, resentment while dealing with now having visitation with a 4 year old. It is not easy. I had just accepted I would never meet this child. I had just accepted my H would never change and we would D (in my mind) once my DD went off to college. I think the why now's are even more mind boggling and hard to accept than the affair and OC!

So, since MB saved my sanity for the past 5 years and helped me grow into a stronger woman, I continue to post here to try to help someone avoid the same mistakes. If your BW was the one posting, we would essentially be saying very similar things to her about the post nup, about the legal seperation etc. We would be advising her what to look for in you to help her know if this time is sincere or yet another false recovery. We do this, not because we are "experts", but because someone cared enough when we were lying bleeding on the floor to help us.

Long way around saying if we can "run you off" that easily, you are not sincere in your desire to make this right.

>I think you all need to hold your breaths now.

ROTFLMAOPIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>This whole thing just came out not even two weeks ago.

Wah-wah.

>Give me some time to figure out what the right things are to do.

You've had 6 (SIX!!) years. If you haven't figured it out by now, methinks maybe you NEED directions...CP and FF are GIVING them to you...just because you DON'T like the work, doesn't mean it's not what's necessary to save EVERYONE in this mess YOU MADE.

>Help and advice I appreciate, bashing I don't. Not helpful whatsoever.

Man up. It's time to quit PLAYING; time to put your big boy chonies on and be a REAL man (instead of a boy who jeapordizes his entire family for a piece of "easy").

>You are in the process of turning me off of this site, a site where I thought I could turn to in search for something good.

You're looking for a REASON to quit before you've even started. Again, man up. If you REALLY want to make your life work, you'll not blame our WORDS and make some positive changes in your life.

Don't dress up a bunch of bullsh*t on here and tell us it's chocolate. We've been fed bs so much that our ninja powers enable us to shoot it down before you even hit send.

Talk to us when you actually DO something to save your marriage. Words don't work with us.

You've had two full pages of people holding your hand before I said anything.

OT:
Hee. De, can I have your permission to copy that gem?

Of course CP.

This is turning ugly. I AM repentant, and I am not looking for someone to make me feel good. Who comes up with all those statements? I never said anything like that. What I came here for was advice and I am appreciating the advice and I will implement the things that you suggested. But when it comes to being ridiculed I probably have to look elsewhere for help, for people who take things serious and don't make fun of somebody who is genuinely looking for help.

and by the way, I wouldn't be on this board if I didn't care.

Show me where we made fun of you?

And why are you so sensitive to being made fun of, anyway? Are you not here in humility to learn how to make up for what you did?

>This is turning ugly.

TURNING?

Hon - it IS ugly.

Not one bit about being in this situation is pretty - until you are so far along in your healing you can look back and count your blessings.

I am there.

Let's get your wife and you there too...okay?

It's hard and terrible work...but it is WORTH it.

So true. Ugly? You don't know what ugly is. I am amazed that so far more people have not noticed this thread. Waywards are not coddled around here, as they should not be. A couple years ago we had a WH that came on here after a 4 year A. His OC was already a toddler and his poor BW had just found out from him cuz he thought she would D him. Guess what? She wanted to recover the M.

He got a pretty good beating that was well deserved due to his attitude, especially toward his poor BW.

I have been pretty gentle with you cuz I hear some repentence in you. However, you cannot afford to be sensitive at this point. You need to take whatever constructive criticism that comes your way. We call them 2x4's round these parts. They are meant to help knock sense into you, believe me I received my share as well.

As did I.

Thank God.

But not one of those 2x4's were unnecessary, were they?

We ALL learned from them. Betrayed and wayward alike have learned from them.

Exactly! My favorite poster in the whole world is Pepperband and she can hand out the 2x4's like nobody else. Yet she also led me through some harrowing times in my life since coming here.

FullMoon..

I posted to you back on the first page. I am sorry that I have not returned.

Take some time to read through the threads of others here. There is so much valuable information and help that you can learn from other's suffering.

Marriage Builders has very strict beliefs. Its members are so passionate about the programs here that alot tend to throw all of it at you at once. Breathe. You are doing well by coming here, I promise.

Some concepts take time to adjust to and implement. Some may not work for all people, I suppose. But they all are a good start to recovery and hope that you can continue to log in.

I am a BW with an OC who is now almost four years old. The man in my life has been a harsh, unrepentant, selfish person through all of this and just now may be learning the error of his ways. I know what would have helped ME through some of these times..is there anything that I can answer for you directly?

All is not lost.

Eibrab

Exactly!

Full Moon I agree that if you read some of the stories you may get a lot of valuable information. However I would suggest that you stick with reading the posts and concepts, books, etc for now. There are a lot of nasty, judgemental cliques on this board that you are better off steering clear of. You have enough on your plate and I am sure you don't have time for a daily battle of wits in addition to rebuilding a marriage. Sadly some do and like to disguise the bullying as 'advice' and pat each other on the back for it. Which is funny because as soon as a newbie realizes what is going on and tries to speak up for themselves the first thing they are told is 'we aren't hear to pat you on the back'. I am sorry to have to tell you this as I am sure you came looking for support and encouragement as stated on the top of board. Obviously you will not recieve that here. You will learn alot however by just reading. I do the same. So read and learn all you can and good luck, feel free to send a pm or email to me if you like. I do not normally post anymore for the same reasons (but this is the 4th person I have contacted in under 2 days that was new and already run off).

Or, you could go and read natalie's thread and see if you think she was truly being 'attacked' or was given advice that would have worked but she didn't want to hear. The way things work here is you (hopefully) listen to everyone and then decide which approaches work for you.

Maybe first you should ponder, "If the situations were reversed, what could my wife possibly do to persuade me into working on this relationship?"

Women don't want to be seen as a fool and you made her into one. I'm afraid after she tells the dirty details to others, her current stance will only be reinforced. In fact, I think it is a great indicator of her decision. If I was planning on working on my marriage, hell if i was just CONSIDERING that option, I would never inform an outsider on your indiscretions.

nowayjose, welcome. Have you read the articles here? Exposing the affair is the number one way to stop it and get your marriage back, according to MB. Why? Because the offender, wayward spouse (WS) has to become humble in front of the important people in his life, ask for forgiveness, and accept their help rebuilding his marriage. And if he doesn't want to quit the affair, telling the other people gets them to put pressure on the WS to stop. How would you like continuing an affair if your mom knows what you're doing and gives you hell for it? The number one step for adultery is getting rid of the third person. That's what exposure does. Finally, letting others (important people in your circle) know gets them on board to help keep you on the straight and narrow; they keep an eye out for you, help you NOT make bad decisions that could lead to another affair.

I'm not sure if that's what you meant, but wanted to explain that.

Fullmoon,

Some of what you will hear here will make you indignant. You don't want to face the extreme damage you have done. You are looking at some of it, but you will not truly understand it for months or years . That isn't a 2 x 4, it's the truth.

The damage your actions have caused to your M, your family, your bs, and your COM are extreme. They will not go away overnight, over the next couple of weeks, nor over the next few months. It has been four years since I found out about my FWH A and the OC. Guess what, we are together, making a new life for ourselves, I am healing.....but I am still here. It is not gone. I don't know if it would be better sooner without the OC but I know that the CS is stolen from my COM and hurts us and will continue to for the next 14 years. I know that the OW will not go away for another 14 years.

We are NC with OC as well as OW. I offered my FWH the choice to make about C with OC because I knew that if I dictated NC then he would blame me if he changed his mind. It was his choice. Just as if he had made that decision I would have walked with my COM. There are many choices to be made, none of them are easy, and none of them provide win/win for anyone. The consequences of your actions have totally screwed your BS and your COM for years to come. Only your constant continuing efforts at understanding yourself, how you got there, and how to keep from going there will help you, your BS and your COM heal from this. Additionally, any of your family and friends that you have effected by this as well (because it effects everyone like a ripple in a pond).

You've heard some tough words here. They want you to think, you don't need to become defensive, you need to understand what it will take to help your family heal. You need to make the commitment to help them heal all of the way, not just part way and then decide it's too tough and walk away and hurt them more.

There is very good information to be read here to help you on that journey if you really want that. It will not be easy, but you have gone way past easy a very long time ago. Walking away won't be any easier for you, not if you truly care about your family. Remember that your BS and COM must always come first. They came first in your life and must always be placed first in your decisions.

Fled

Hello Im new here, but I was reading what you have done to your BW, and I would like to say I had my H cheat on me with a OW that was on state assistance, lived with her parents, drove a 1990 Ford Temple that the doors didnt open from the inside.
Now it was 2002, we just built a Cabin up north here in Michigan, beautiful, up there they called it a house, we called it our cabin, we both drove brand new trucks, owned 3 houses at about $150,000 each. and he decided that the OW with the state aide was better than the wife he had of 17 years, he was gone for 2 months, I begged him back, thought I couldnt live without him, while he was gone the stress of missing him caused a hole in my lower intestine, per the Doctor that operated, and I had to have emergency sergury, and ended up with a colostomy bag on my side, this happened while he was with the OW, I was 8 hours away from EXPIRING, per the Dr.
This was from the pain I was feeling from his A with OW.
Once he came home, OW calls and says Im P, with your OC, and "I know you are the father as I just had a abortion 2 months ago and you are the only one I have been with sence then".
Well what does that tell me? she didnt want a child 2 months ago, now she wants one? right!!! she wanted to trap my H, so he would stay with her, I mean really it really is her descision if she gets P or not. unless he used a rubber and trust me, hes too lazy.
So she either wanted him or our money! period, and guess what, she got her OC, by herself, I made sure of that, and she also got $650.00 of our material money to support her OC, and eventually she realized that she couldnt win against 17 years and about $450,000 of net worth.
State aide couldnt compete with my pay, and she was a life time member of the welfare system, so he never looked back.
BUT!!! what he did in those 2 months, DISTROYED me, our M, and our child togather.
I stayed with him for 3 years after the OC was born, she found a new man to marry and he adopted the OC and 1 week after my H adopted the OC off to her new H, I left my H.
The pain that I went through over that OC was unbearable, I can deal with an A, but to get another women P, while you are married to me is a whole new meaning to "Lets see how far I can cut my wifes heart open before it stops beating".
It's now 7 years since my H had his A, and 6 years since the OC was born, and 4 years since I left him for it.
I couldnt bear to have that rubbed in my face everydayfor the rest of my life, it hurt so bad that I would have rather had him physically abused me than to hurt my heart like that, I mean PEOPLE look at me, 7 years later and I still cry at least once a week.
I miss my life and my H so bad that its only hurting me, nobody else is crying.
I was the first one to cry and the last one to cry, and Im still crying, I really was the only one that got hurt, I lost my H and best friend over some OW that wanted to think of herself and not others, example, she didnt think of me, my child and her new OC.
But one question I have always wanted answered.
WHY DOES SHE AND HE GET A GIFT FROM GOD WHEN THEY WERE COMITTING ADULTERY?
But sir I didnt mean to make this about me, I just wanted to show you the hurt that I went through,and what Im still going through, so please please please handle your damaged goods with care, you damaged them (her).
I dont know what to tell you to do to make it easier on her, as none of its easy at all to swallow.
But one thing, DONT lie to her anymore, and dont sneak to see the OC, that will just kill her. Out of all it, you must tell the OW that you dont want her or the OC in your life and let her be there when you do it. Thats more important than you will ever know.
Im glad to see that you are showing remorse, my H didnt, as he didnt really know how to show compassion or show that he was truly sorry for what he did.
But either way it was too much of a hard hit to my heart and I couldnt take it, so I left and now Im still cryin because I miss him and our old life more tham anything.
I wish you luck, and pray for your BWs heart. shes gonna need it.

oneilsigns, welcome. You should start a thread over in Emotional Needs or General Questions. You don't have to have a purpose, just a place to chat. You can make friends here.

wow, oneilsigns, im so sorry for what you've been through. I wish that these adulterers could experience our pain, if even for a moment, to understand what they are putting their supposed loved ones through.

>hell if i was just CONSIDERING that option, I would never inform an outsider on your indiscretions.


While I understand WHY you would never, I must say that is not the tack I took.

I tell anyone who I am close to. I will not allow secrets to fester in the dark, nor will I lie or keep things from people I care about.

I will not allow others' transgressions to make me into a deciever.

Just wanted to let everybody know that I am still here. I am still reading the posts and am trying to learn from them. I do appreciate any advice and sharing of experience.

I'm so glad! I've been here long enough to see a lot of people benefit when they weren't even looking, or else found something they weren't expecting. Or were just reading. Good luck.

I am so glad to hear that, FM! Read some of the older threads as well. It is good for you to get a handle on your BW's perspective.

Good, good, good.

If you have any questions for my husband, I'd be happy to relay them to him...he's not big on typing - but he is a font of information.