i havent logged on for quite awhile and do not recognize very many names, hopefully some of you who know my situation are still lurking or maybe the ones i dont know can help. as you know om was ordered cs in my opinion--quite a large sum, i was surprised and pop was pleased. om has made three payments over three months of only half of the order. it has helped alot since this is the first help i have had from him in over two years. we are doing ok in visitations, seems to be working out ok. yet he did file court papers and hired a lawyer and we are going back to court the 24th of july. in the papers he wants joint physical and legal custody, name change, less child support, me to work full time or change jobs and work where he does. these are the major items. he now has stated to me he wishes he hadnt hired a lawyer and talked with me first to try to settle these issues. i feel the cs was so overwhelming that he is grasping at straws to lower it and he thought this would scare me into dropping it. well it scared me, but i had to borrow money to hire my own lawyer, cause i was afraid that if i didnt have councel he would try to take grace away from me. i would have dropped everything, but pop doesnt want me to. i feel that if i came up with a fare cs amount he would drop everything else, but pop feels why should we be fare to him after all the hurt that has come from this. i just want everything to be settled and we can all go on repairing our lives. am i wrong to want to do this, should i stick with what pop feels is right. the om has put his truck up for sale cause he feels he cant afford it anymore, he has lowered the amount he puts into his retirement fund to ease the cs payments. he has asked me to come up with a number i can live with, but pops wants to leave it up to the courts, pops thinks i am feeling sorry for him, i am not but i also dont want his family to think i am out to destroy their lives, i really dont think pop wants to either, i just think he doesnt know what else to do to make it better for himself. i worry about grace--i dont want hardships to be blamed on her--so far she has a huge family that loves her(both sides) and i want it to stay that way since there is no turning back bringing om in her life, i think we need to work on keeping her life as normal and happy as we can. so the question again is --is it wrong for me to want to work with om with the cs issue. or do you think like pops that he is just manipulating me and will still go after the other issues he has brought up in the lawsuit. i hope this makes sense to all of you.
full house

full house,
Your viewpoint sounds reasonable to me...

I think there can't help but be some residual guilt on the part of the Wandering Spouse (you) and some latent feelings of revenge on the part of the betrayed (pops), even when we don't mean to let our emotions get into the situation.

Does the Other Man have children-of-the-marriage? Both you and Pops have been around here long enough to know how many of of BS wives worry, whine, and fuss over how the ch-support effects our lives, our childrens' lives (it really DOES!)... Perhaps if pops thought of that, imagined that one of OUR husbands' was (Godforbid) the OM and how the innocent side of his family could be hurting too (due to ch-s)... maybe he could do more negotiating too???

I'm reaching, just speculating.

I hope you guys find a happy medium, ya know? Chose your battles wisely...

God be with you,
J, in recovery 5 years--woopee!

PS and Always Remember Policy of Joint Agreement!!! BOTH OF YOU!! (finger waggle)

<small>[ June 28, 2003, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: Jenny ]</small>

FullHouse,
I can see where you just want to get enough cs and be on your way, BUT, OM can't tell you to work more or where to work for that matter.

A judge will probably not allow a name change as it wouldn't be in the best interest of the child. OW didn't use our name as she has 4 c's and both our lawyer and hers told her to drop the idea as a judge would probably not allow it being she was married to someone else and oc would feel "different".

I can also see pop's saying "let the courts handel it". We've seen pops' reasons, age being at the top of the list, as to why he wants om to support Grace.

You must POJA and talk honestly about the reason you want to give an amount for cs and be done with it. Be gentle and loving and maybe pops will understand all of your reasons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As far as joint custody, I think om will back down. If he hasn't seen Grace regularly he won't have a shot just yet. She's too young.

Best wishes to both of you. I pray you'll find a soloution you both can be at peace with.

Also don't let pops think you feel sorry for om. Maybe he can look at it differently as Jenny said when he sees how high cs also affects om's family. Like US <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . It shouldn't be used as a punishment to om as all his family will be the recipients of that punishment.

love
Debi

full house,
pops and I dont always agree, but this Time I do. I think om is manipulating you, I know I have been there done that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I probably had sucker stamped on my forehead, Om has used ever trick in the book, and sometimes I wish it were left to the courts and not me. Might be because om and I are both very controlling people and butt heads for long periods of time, but om knows I am a softy when it comes to certain matters.

If this were my husband, and we have had the same conversations, He would be saying, why do you feel sorry for him now, he didnt feel sorry the year and a half we paid for every thing, Why should you care what he has to spend, when he never cared what it was costing us.
Why do you feel sorry for him, If it were me you would make me pay every cent you could. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Now these are just some of the sentences that we have said back and forth between my husband and my self. There is much more to this issue, but I cant post, I am afraid it will give to much of om's info online, and will come back to me.
Dont fall for it full house, He is using you and manipulating you, I can promise you if the tables were turned he would take your husband for every penny he could and not give a damn about your children.

I understand your need for peace for grace, but I think if you back down now, He will have you where he wants you from now on. I wish I could explain this better, I am not able to, please listen to pops on this one.

<small>[ June 29, 2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

full house, I am kind of in the same situation that you are in. I am not sure if you've read previous posts of mine but I have twins with the OM. I have been having my own inner battle with this very thing. The OM was really awful to me throughout the pregnancy and all the way up till he told his W. which was about when the babies were 4 months old. I had filed to get support through the state, he got a lawyer...I am sure the lawyer told him basically what he would have to pay etc. But we started to try to work out an agreement. He offered me X amount saying this is what he could afford. He wasn't very good at paying in the begining, but now I think he has it automatically taken out of his paycheck and deposited into mine! What a relief so I don't have to worry if he is sending the whole thing...or worse yet sending something. I have only received one automatic deposit so far so I am crossing my fingers that it continues to work out. Maybe you should try to settle on a lower amount if he gets it automatically deposited. If he stops it say you will take him back to court. He is also suppose to give me a cost of living increase every year, and X amount for school supplies and clothes when they start school. But my H has medical/dental on them, and we are to pay all of it. He isn't going to pay any part of child care etc. Sometimes I feel maybe I should have gotten more for the kids, but what we get does help. We have 5 kids now, OM has 1. But I am content with the agreement as long as he holds up to it and holds up to keeping in contact with them. I know it has been a relief on the OM and his family knowing that they can meet these obligations. Well, except for the W knowing he is having contact with the babies.
I would talk with pops and write down the expenses and see if you can come up with a friendlier number. Maybe OM would be forth coming in what they can afford.
I feel like I have the upper hand. I don't feel taken. I feel like I could take him to court and get more any time I want. But I prefer knowing that the OM is helping financially but not having his family struggle either. The OM and I did wrong by both of our families, I would hate to see either of our families stuggle to the point every day living was uncomfortable. I just hope that in the long run this was the best decision. That if the twins want/need something extra that the OM will be willing to help like he said he would.
I hope you and pops will be able to come to an understanding. My heart goes out to you.

If OM had gotten what he wanted after he hired his attorney and took you to court, do you think that he would right now be regretting his decision? I think you know the answer to that question. The fact is that his tactic blew up in his face and now wants you to feel sorry for his family, well I hate to break it to him but it was HIS choice to go this route that brought any hardships to his W and family, NOT YOU. My opinion is with pops and let the courts decide.

thanks for your replies, making the right decisions is soooo hard. I guess after talking with pops I can see his point, I will wait after the court date to see what the results are before making any decisions, he feels if i make a bargain before the court date somehow i will eventually get screwed (no pun here)(sorry bad taste in humor) by om. I can always deal with him after the fact. I guess I do have to worry about grace and my family first, but it is graces other half of her family and i dont want to put any more stress than what is already there if i can help it. and this is not for om--but for grace and her other brother and sisters. She is pretty lucky to have such a large family all whom love her--5 brothers and 5 sisters, boy is she gonna be spoiled...she is such a great little girl, i could gush all day...make you all want to puke...sorry. Anyway I will wait and be patient, it just makes me nervous, even though I cant imagine him getting his way, but you never know what the judge will decide.
It was so nice to see gemini and mof5 here again, i wasnt sure if you were still around thanks for taking the time to give me your opinions. mof5 sounds like there is alot of conflict or problems you are still dealing with, if you would like to share or talk or give me more advice in private i would be glad to give you a email address you can contact me at. let me know
full house---by the way all this stress has added 15pounds to me--guess this body isnt seeing any sun this summer unless i straighten myself out--

You sound so much like me it is scary.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I understand all your concerns and have had many of the same, exept, om and his wife have no children together, and the children they do have are my age or older than me.

It has taken me along time to see things the way I do now, and I have a long way to go. I try not to let om manipulate me any more, and I am stronger than I was 2 years ago. Although he still trys on a weekly sometimes daily basis.

would love to talk to you as i have a few questions that I dont think should be on the board.

FH,

I will chime in as well. IF you have Grace's best interests at heart (and I know you do) you will do Wha the courts tell you to do. OM may have really messed up with a lot of this, because if it is felt by the court that he is not to be trusted with Grace, he may lose visitation as well as have to pay CS.

Now I do know some of Pops reasons for seeking CS, his age is one. The other is his health. You two have many children to look after and Grace for even longer. The odds suggest that you need to be taking some of the CS and putting it aside for Grace's education or support later.

By the way, it is illegal in some state and I think Ca for the parent to try and give away what is deemed rightfully the childs. The CS is for GRACE, you should not be giving it away.

As for OM, well he hasn't exactly made a case for his sensitivity to children or his spouse. He has made convincing case that he is a liar and a cheat. If he couldn't afford another child he should have kept it zipped or used a condom. He did neither. Now there is a human being on this planet that needs alot of love and care. You can supply the love along with your family, but the care takes money.

Don't even think about giving away what is actually Grace's.

God Bless,

JL

PS: If OM feels the CS is too high, let him start a political movement to get the guidlines lowered. Many will join him. But neither you nor he can or should go against the law. The law says YOUR daughter is owed this money.

ok, maybe I don't know the whole story here but after reading the posts above I can't believe how hypocritical people are. Saying that the OM should have kept it in his pants or worn a condom or is a liar and a cheat? What is SHE?? Innocent?? Shouldn't she have kept her legs together or used protection herself, didn't she lie to her H and cheat? I think that you should try to be fair to BOTH sides. Don't strap the FAMILY of the OM and don't strap yourselves either. The courts or yourselves should be able to have some kind of arrangement that will benefit BOTH families and GRACE. How many times has this board ripped apart the OW for getting pregnant and hurting our families(myself included)! It takes two to $UCK. I still believe that birth control is the Woman's responsibility, so I have NO sympathy for her getting pregnant but that CS should be from both parties involved. AGAIN, I don't think I know that whole story here so if this is out of line, I apologize and I feel for Pops, but remember that the family of the OM, Pops and ALL the children were all innocent! Her and the OM are the ones who were in the wrong here and THEY together should do their best to see that the innocent victims in this mess pay or suffer as little as possible for what they choose to do. Just my 2 cents. You can rip into me if you choose!

If your having a bad day I am sorry, But yes I do think your out of line.
Your right it takes two to tango, which is why from day one, I took full responsibility for my child and pops and full house have done the same. .
we also know men lie to get out of paying child support, happens all the time, on a daily basis all over america.. So while this woman is doing her part, he only wants to do a small share of his part... Other children or not. He has a responsibility to help. And he is not meeting that responsibility.

By the way I dont think she asked you to feel sorry for her. Why would we feel sorry for ourselves, this is not rocket science, we had an affair, got pregnant and now have another child to raise. I for one, think my daughter is the most adorable baby on the face of the earth.. I am crazy about her, no need for me to want someone to feel sorry for me, and I would bet full house feels the same. But full house has a responsibility to make sure grace gets whats due her and the courts decided that amount.

whoops--this is full house speaking not pops--i forgot to log in,
but yeah, someone must be having a reallly bad bitter day, if you look up our history, i never wanted any help from om and i took responsibility for everything i have done, and guess what i have two children with pops that we got pregnant using birth control, so it doesnt always guarantee no pregnancy--we love all 8 of our children very much no matter the planning or circumstances.

m of 5---here is my email address--


email me anytime

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 03:20 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

GOT IT, YOU CAN ERASE NOW

Again, I apologize if I'm missing or missed the big picture from your previous posts. If I hurt you or your friend's recovery or feelings I am sorry. I was just simply saying that this board has ripped the OW apart time and again for getting pregnant but you WERE the OW too and it seemed to me like you were blaming the OM for what happened, again maybe you took responsibility for yourself in another post long ago. I TOTALLY agree that men try to get out of paying support for a lot of children (NOT just OC) and its wrong! Its also wrong of a woman (and I'm NOT saying this about you 2) to try to take every bleeding penny from a man to pay for a child he NEVER wanted. Try to put yourselves into the BW role of your OM, would you be happy, first to find your H cheating on you and THEN to know that your family is going to have pay for the next X amount of years for X amount of dollars, that could have gone to a house, car or college education for your OWN child? H$LL NO!!! You would NOT be happy about that! Is it fair that your BH have to pay financially and emotionally for your A? NO! I'm saying that it should be an EQUAL share of burden financially, at least, from BOTH sides of the fence. Emotionally the WOMEN pay so much more (BOTH W and OW) because that is our nature, being a mother is a gift! I have NO doubt you love your children, EVERY mother thinks their child is the most beautiful creature ever created, myself included, which is again why its up to the WOMEN to protect themselves and THINK about the future before spreading their legs open because it is HARDER for us as WOMEN to leave our offspring. Sometimes even the COURTS are basis to the mother or to the father and my point is......weather its court declared or not it should be equal to what BOTH parties can live with financially to provide that child with the life its deserves. I don't doubt my OW loves her child but did she THINK about the future that child would have with a father who NEVER wanted her and denies she even exists when the OW bent over for him and said don't worry about protection, that was her 110%! I blame my UH 110% for having the A and I blame her 110% for getting pregnant to trap him!

Hindsight is 20/20, but doesn't really help now because what's done is done and why should pops and their other children pay for the big doosie?

I don't know if there is a way to divide the responsibility equally? Especially with so many innocent people dragged into the drama...

The only "fair" thing to do is what is right for the OC without doing further damage to your own marriage, fh.

I think if you set the priorities in line with God being #1, your spouse & your marriage being close second, your kids being next, THEN OM, you will make right decisions with the greatest ease...

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 01:36 PM: Message edited by: BINthereDUNthat ]</small>

I can see why you are angry, I just think it could have been put a little more delicately, but since you dont want to , I dont think any one was blaming the other person for having a baby, and our post go back a long ways so I would guess it would be hard to understand. I dont know all of full houses details but will share a little of mine with you.
Long term affair, om , said he had a vasectomy, turns out he lied and new he could get me pregnant, I didnt worry because of that, and his age.. all though I can say what a fool I am now.... I agree I could have prevented that and didnt. so It was my fault for listening and believing him. Did I keep the baby to trap him, hell know, I kept the baby because I was taking responsibility for creating her and she deserved a chance at life.

I didnt get pregnant on purpose, and i am sure some women do. But when all the crying got done, I had to face facts and become a new parent once again, I didnt force him to be involved, he came on his own. Didnt even ask him if he wanted to be involved, merely told him, she would be told who her father was and he could either accept it, or go away.
I can take it or leave it. but if he is going to be involved, I think he should try and do the very best he can.

Of course I would not want my money going to a child I didnt want, but if my husband did this, we would have to make that sacrifice. I am not sure what to tell you, It is a price mine would have to pay if his vasectomy had failed and he got someone pregnant. It is up to a man and woman to protect them selves. after all pregnancy isnt the only fear we should have.

women are responsible for their bodies as are men, and together they make babies, I would say, that is equal. A debate that will last through time.

Take every bleeding penny, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess for me this doesnt apply. Because we recieve not even two percent of his paycheck, he has plenty and is doing quite well. In fact my husband and my self provide all her basic needs and then some, My husband provides insurance, to save om money. WE did not take him to court, although probably should.

I think your getting angry over your situation, but fullhouses and mine is not like yours. very different.
She was only speaking of her self. and yes ow are frequently raked over the coals on this SITE, believe me, I have been. Doesnt change who we are, just people who made some bad choices, as did your wayward spouse. However if we are talking of equal, then in most , but not all. the mother of the child is doing more than her share with these children. Yes some of these people may be paying cs, but most[not all] do not help with the child in any way what so ever, so in that respect. The mother is fully taking responsibility for her child. That two people created. Cause you see with out sperm, there would be NO BABY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK, Let's all calm down and not start a war here!

Fullhouse,

I haven't replied before now, cause I really don't have any advice other than what's already been said by others before me. Personally, I feel that if xOM had been willing to work w/you and pops on the CS/visitation, he would be doing a lot better! He chose the route he took, and it's his own fault if he needs to sell the truck(or whatever). I can understand why Pops is so adament on the CS, just look at what's happened recently w/his health(which by the way how is he doing?) You need to have that for Grace, especially if something(heaven forbid!!!!) does happen! I, personally, as you and many others know, chose the NC/no CS route, as we are still fairly young, and it was the best for us! Heck, Sailorman will be 49 when Abbi is 18, and from what I remember, that's a huge difference than what pops is looking at! I agree that you went for the CS, and everyone's situation is very unique to them! Go to court, the judge will most likely laugh at xOM's demands that you get another job! As for the joint custody and stuff, I have no experience with that, so have nothing to offer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

tinml,

Well, yes the OW has been ripped apart here, but many of those times, the BW has had proof that the OW got P on purpose, or was using the OC to stay connected to the WH! Fullhouse and Pops have been working for over a year to repair their M, and doing pretty good too. Because we have chosen different roads, I have not had much "board contact" but support and see the sense in their decissions. If you would go back and read when Grace was born, and all the things that they BOTH went through, you would see how far they have come! You would also see the guilt that Fullhouse has gone through, and her repentance as well! In fact, it was Pops who pushed for CS, and not Fullhouse(not that you should start attacking pops, as he's also been through similar situation w/CS himself, not as WH, but before they were M'd) So, in this situation, they have seen just about all sides of this "coin"(so to speak). xOM in this situation has NOT taken responsibility, which is why the CS ended up being so high! If he had been willing to work w/Fullhouse and Pops on this, it would be a lot better! xOM made rediculous claims/demands, and it ended up costing him. He is continuing to do so, and it will only backfire as it did before! So, before you start making the statements such as "Shouldn't she have kept her legs together or used protection herself, didn't she lie to her H and cheat?" and "It takes two to $UCK." find out more about the poster, especially when they've been around for a while! She's paid her price, has asked those who count for forgiveness, and is doing the best she can! She is rebuilding her M w/Pops, and has come here for advice and support, not to be torn apart. She is here as a WW, and as such needs help in repairing the damage she caused. Not to be torn down as the OW!

Ok, enough from me, but just play nice, please! This thread has good potential from all sides, as long as pot shots are not taken.

Tigger

full house ~from what I gathered from your posts is that you and pops made a good decision. I might be wrong on this but the OM is the one that made steps to take this through the court...so therefore you had to hire a lawyer. Then he is just getting what he asked for. In my case the OM got a lawyer and I just consulted with one so I hadn't put out any money yet. In my case my H had a child before we met. Once I was with him we went to court and it was a 2 year ordeal that got nowhere. So I guess that is one reason I was so willing to work with OM and stay out of the court system this time. So I know the stress you are going through. You hear cases where the man is granted some outrageous thing he was seeking, and he just wants joint custody so he doesn't have to pay child support or it will be lowered a lot. But if your OM hasn't been involved consistently I don't think he has a leg to stand on. But all the unknown can sure put a lot of stress on a person. I will pray for you. I have read a lot of pops messages and I think he is a great "poster" so I am sure that just reflects what kind of person he really is. Reading what you have to say I think you must be equally as caring and the both of you will do what is best. I hope you both will continue to be a part of this board because being a newby I am sure there will be times I need support/advice!

I guess I went over the line and deserve a little bashing but this is what I was refering to:

"As for OM, well he hasn't exactly made a case for his sensitivity to children or his spouse. He has made convincing case that he is a liar and a cheat. If he couldn't afford another child he should have kept it zipped or used a condom. He did neither. Now there is a human being on this planet that needs alot of love and care. You can supply the love along with your family, but the care takes money."

Maybe I should have directed my comment towards JL and not the thread in general. My point is still not being heard and with the way things are going it probably won't be heard. I don't KNOW you or Pops and I KNOW nothing about his health problems(sorry to hear he is sick?)! I guess I was taking it out on you like you were my OW who called my UH last week and he refused her call at work. SO maybe I'm a little sensitive today. I want ALL children OC or not to have as happy and healthy of life as possible, with or with out contact with a parent. It does take sperm to make a baby but WHO'S decision is it on what to do AFTER conception......the WOMAN's, so we need to be held more accountable for the birth control issue! I'm Pro-Choice but I do NOT think that a woman should just spread her legs with out thinking about the consquences of what may happen. And YES, a MAN should too but lets face it ladies, were just the more resposible of the sexes! We are the creators and givers of LIFE! No man has ever felt a baby inside him and known what its like to feel so connected to another human being. I could get sperm anyday of the week, if I choose to but it is VERY unlikely that a man could get an egg and even if he did, what would he do with it? I am sorry that you were "tricked" into getting pregnant or thinking it was ok to not use protection by your OM. Your OM is a ^ucking scum for doing that to you. I need to just go away now and not post anymore. Best of Luck to you all!!!

boy it is nice to see all the old names pop up here. i hope you are all doing as well as fh and i. we still have some potholes in our road as you have seen here but look out as the slurry truck is rolling down the street. and to 4 tori&natesake, welcome and i hope this place can be as much help to you as it has been to us.

i didn't want to post on this thread. in our talks on her question she stated that she wished she had an unbiased person to talk to about it. so i suggested she post here. i am so glad she did because she was kind of avoiding this site because she felt attacked so often. thank you all for the warm and considerate responses no matter which side of the fence you sit on.

thisisnotmylife,,,,,, your posts prodded me into responding. i am sorry for the anger that you are still holding toward your h A. i see it in your posts as i see it in my old posts. some of that will stay with you forever as these things reek of hypocritism. whether you reconcile with your h or not i hope you find a place of peace for yourself in all this. i must say that fh does not and i do not blame the om solely for the A. they both had an equal part in the wrong doings. i could however find more fault in him as i believe that a man should be shot for interfereing with someone elses marriage. men should have more respect then that for men. (sorry to all if this sounds sexest). sort of like shotting a horse thief. but let me ask you this in all fairness. do you think fh's om intends to reimburse us for the money our family has lost for the past 2 1/2 years from my lost work while in turmoil over her A, her lost work for the 1 1/2 years she didn't work when grace was born, or the difference in the money lost as she changed employers to a job that does not pay as well? and what about all the costs and time spent tending to grace's needs when she was sick and the cost of mc when we couldn't afford it? if you add it all up it is in the tens of thousands of $ in the short 2 1/2 year time span of this. now i have given my reasons along time ago for fh seeking cs so i won't bore anyone by repeating them but the last question is, since om had no interest in grace until $ became an issue and he didn't care one iota about my finaces during any of this why should i care about his? it's simple to me every thing above the table and let the people who have much more expertise then us here set the guidelines. and hell if it were about $ i would encourage fh to have an A with my cardiologist.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 03:19 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

THisis....,

Perhaps you should address your remarks to me, as it seems it is my comment that has bothered you so much.I would be happy to discuss it with you, if you like, but probably another thread is appropriate.

I realize you are not aware of FH and Pop's history. I know you are not aware of the raging debates about how CS hurts the family of the WH who has children. All have taken place on this site and in fact driven people from here.

I will say that my comment was specific to FH and Pop's situation and directly at her OM particularly. He is the one that brought it to court, and he is the one that continues to make outrageous demands, so I hope he gets royally screwed by the courts. He is too stupid to take care of his own family.

Are you getting the idea I don't care for his behavior? I hope so. Some people only learn after they ruin everything and he is on his way to trying to do that. By the way, he does have enough money to keep hiring a lawyer, but he also doesn't have 6,7?? (I forget) kids at home to raise as FH and Pop's do.

So if you would like to vent, or talk, I would be happy to. Frankly,I do think the children of the BS should be considered in court, but it seems the only way that happens is if they file for divorce first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You won't get an arguement from me about the court system being a mess on these issues, but they are difficult to deal with and one size doesn't fit all.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

First off, pops you are too funny! Cardiologist? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thanks for the laugh of the day.

You and fullhouse have come such a long way.

You were right to let thisisnotmylife know we, the bs, have felt like she does at some point.

In fact go way back to 2000, 2001. Look at me! Yikes!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It does get better (?) with time, talking, having a poja, honesty, romance, and a strong commitment from each other.

What we have to remember is everyone here has a unique story. They are not our ow,om.

Repairing marriage in this horrific situation is what this site is all about. The ow who post here are doing what they can to make ammends.

fullhouse and pops, as I said before, I wish you both blessings. Good luck in court. Pray about things and I'm sure they will work out for the best.

We're about the same ages. I understand why you want cs pops. BUT we are in opposite positions. Our cs was supposed to be for retirement, and granddaughters' college savings. H is so very sorry for what he and ow did, but I still get my days of anger... especially when I know ow doesn't work, has a trust fund that never ends, and wrote to H that she was going after $ because he wouldn't be a full time (yes you all read it right) father. She told him she had all the money she needed to hire a "big time" lawyer and would see to it he is without anything.

Well we still have some things! Each other is better than a retirement fund. And now my work offers a sep ira and I send most of my pay there!

See? Everyones situation is different.

love
Debi

I edited this message to remove my remarks to JL.
Atta guy JL....we posted together and I just read what you wrote.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: gemini1 ]</small>

Thanks for the welcome pops. Like I said before I had read things you wrote before and I like how you word what you write. I think you have insight,caring, and know how to show that when you write. I was glad to finally see fh write, because I have read about your situation and hadn't seen her join in on this site since I came.I hope she hasn't felt bashed this time.

I think we understand the anger from thisisnotmylife. But her views on how much responsibility is on the womans shoulders I don't agree with. I struggled with not wanting to bring a child into this world without the other person responsible not being able to have a say. But I never believed in abortion being a choice in MY life. Abortion for ME isn't a form of contraception...therefore I believe the choice was made when two people willingly lay down together. I know many responsible men that have NEVER produced an unwanted child, even if they were with woman that wanted to.

Pops you really enlightened me when you said the OM didn't care about all the costs to you and fh. Boy that is true in my case too. The OM sure didn't care that I was trying to prepare for twins on top of having three kids to care for in our house. Twins was a double expense to prepare for. Two cribs, two sets of clothes, double the formula and diapers! We didn't have a vehicle big enough etc etc...but OM was so concerned what this was doing to HIS family. So anyway, reading the posts on fh question enlightened me also. If MY OM messes up I think I will just have to go the court route. There are so many issues, I know I need more answers before I put things in writing. QUESTION: on the birth certificate there is no one listed yet. OM thinks that my H is automatically put on it, I took steps so my H wouldn't be put on it because OM was such an A** at the time I was for sure we would have to go to court.When I asked OM if he wanted to be on the birth certificate he said he thought it would be best for H just to stay on it. Now if there is NC with OM in the future it would be best for the twins to have H on the birth certificate, except for my mind keeps thinking about "what ifs" like OM decides to not hold up to his end, if my H is listed as the father then maybe the court wouldn't hold OM responsible. SOOOO I wasn't going to put H on the birth certificate until I had something in writing from OM. But even if I get something in writing and it doesn't go through the court will that piece of paper hold any water? I know this is all confusing...my head just spins when I think of all the issues I could be missing! Thanks!

4tori
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But even if I get something in writing and it doesn't go through the court will that piece of paper hold any water? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please check with an attorney. Here it holds no water, infact if you go to court and then make up an agreement, and accept less money you are in contempt of court.

This is not my life,

I dont think you should go away, I can see your angry and hurt, I guess your terms when describing the ow are a little harsh, but I have been were you are, not concerning a oc, but My husband has had many one night stands and affairs, I have yet to see any one on marriage builders have as many. I know all the hate and agry words that go with it.
and yes, I trusted, as funny as that sounds, but really I have me to blame, as I knew I was in a situation I shouldnt be in, and frankly if you lay down with someone , you risk, getting pregnant.
And my joy I am sure as hateful as his wife is , is her pain.
Please dont go, maybe you could post more on another thread and some of the wives who are most helpful, will come and talk, I dont want to fight, I am just very opionated. and I am sure we will all listen.
By the way, If your trying to heal your marriage, I can understand why her calling your husband would set things off for you. You have a right to be angry, just your angry at every one right now.
Maybe we can help another way.

On graces birth certificate there is no father listed, i thought it would be dishonest to grace to put a name down that was not her biological father and that is what a birth certificate is for, to tell you who made you, not who loves you and takes care of you for the rest of your life. also at the time pops did not want me to list him it was too painful for him, we had struggles on what she was to be named, i named her cause no one at the time wanted to be a part of that, yet pops stated he did not want her to carry the om name, he wanted her to have his. because the om asked for paternity tests which proved him the biological father(after she was over a year old) it will be left up to him to choose to put his name on the certificate or not. he will have to foot the bill on that one. as for grace she will never be lied to, she will know all about her family and how she came to be, even as she was growing inside of me i have thought how i am going to tell her, so that she will always feel she was wanted and loved even though her mother made some terrible choices, but how much she is a part of this family.
m of 5 --got your email will write as soon as i can, am back to work, if i had my old job i would have had the summer off collecting unemployment, but i dont get that luxury any longer--om does

FH, Thanks for your reply. This birth certificate is a hard thing on me. Seeing it blank really hurts. I am with you that I don't want the children lied to, I plan on telling them as young as possible. I don't want to leave it blank either. I emailed OM a couple of days ago telling him that I wanted to discuss something with him. He finally called today, and we talked about it pretty in depth the different angles. My H wanted to be on the birth certificate, he even filled out the paper work at the hospital. It was too hard and emotional for me to fill out anything...even their names. But I called the hospital the next day and asked for them not to put in the fathers name. The OM had good reasons why he didn't want to be on the birth certificate. We both think it will be easier on the kids growing up to have my H name on the birth certificate. I remember when I got older I brought my birth certificate to sign up for sports etc. I don't want the twins to have a blank spot or feel like they need to explain anything. I believe when they get older it should be changed, I think it is important for generations to come should know the truth. I would hate for misinformation to trickle down. My A/OC are not a secret...my H side knows and mine. The twins are being accepted. The OM family knows. It is just ironing out the wrinkles. I am not set in what I am going to do, I am hoping I have a couple of years before I feel the need to do something. I am not sure if Grace is your D real name but that is one of the names I really wanted...along with Faith or Hope. I wanted her name to reflect that there was a positive outcome in all this. I love the name Gracie.

My husband has his name on the birth certificate, he filled out the paperwork, not me, but d knows she has two daddies and will be told the truth, but my hubby is her dad in every sense of the word, she knows this.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

4t&nsake,,,,, i think you should be careful with having your h put his name on the birth cert.. also i would go through the courts because that way everything is out in the open and in writing. no questions, black and white, evreyone is clear.

also check with an attorney for the state in which you live. in many states after a 2 year period the twins will automatically become the finacial responsibility of your h if om is not legally (thru dna and court system) proven to be the bio dad. at that time regardless of the truth your h will be monetarily on the line for them. with you two already having c of your own this may be a burden he does not want.

<small>[ June 30, 2003, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

grace is her real name, during the very beginning hard times i got through this "by the grace of God" and grace was with me.
i was told once you put a name on the birth certificate it is very hard to change. can i ask why you would even consider putting the wrong name on a legal document, is this really helping the child, especially if everyone knows the truth, step parents are very common in this day and alot of children are raised not by a biological parent.

pops, I know I need to check into things more for how my state laws are in regards to birth certificate etc. OM is an officer in the military, he is afraid his W will ruin his career if she can get evidence that he was unfaithful and produced a child. Since she found out she has been really doing some crazy&mean things. Granted OM was mean and unsupportive to me before he told his wife, but since he told he has changed his tune. It was such a great change that I might have been too easy on letting him off. It was a lot easier when he was an a** to do what I thought was right for the kids. I wish I would have found this board because everyone has made such good points...but now I don't want to back out of my word (agreement) and stir everything all up when he has done everything he said he would now. I guess I should print out some of these responses for H and talk about what we should do.

I can only speak for my self, but I am waiting for that cut off time pops spoke about, we both are, I want my husband to be legally responsible for our d, why... because if I die, he will be the one who takes care of her, she wont be taken from her siblings, and raised with people she doesnt know as well.

I guess my husband put his name on b certificate, because I dont remember any one asking me, but sure enough his name is on it.
But at the time, we had not done dna, and I still prayed every day she was my husbands. Om wasnt involved and as far as I was concerned he could stay gone. It took us a long time to figure out what we were doing, as I have said before people going through this will change there mind a dozen times, before its settled.
Here unless you contest it your husband is listed as father if you are married.
Because this is sooooo complicated, Your never sure if your doing it the right way.

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: mom of five ]</small>

in our state if you are married the husband is presumed to be the father. So even though I called the hospital I was surprised when I went to vital statistics to see that it was blank. In the hospital it felt wrong for my H to be on the birth certificate. But when I picked up the birth certificate and it was blank that felt even more wrong. My H wants to be on the birth certificate, if the babies were adopted the birth certificate would be changed wouldn't it? I am not sure on everything dealing with this issue, that is why I am asking the question. I am not in a hurry to make a decision either way. I will continue to seek answers and take my time with this.

mom of five, I think I was writing my post when you sent yours. This birth certificate thing is soooo complicated that is why I am hoping with time I will feel I can make the best decision for my family. But I am glad that I still have time to figure things out regarding this. I appreciate everyone's imput.

4t&nsake,,,,,, it sounds as if your h is willing to take on full responsibility for the oc's. if so i commend him and can tell you he has the compassion of an angel, heart of a lion and he loves you very much.

as for your om, what kind of an officer would hide from people having the knowledge of his children. maybe his carreer should have been thought of before he participated in the act of potentialy createing a child with someone other then his w. i would thought that an officer used the head on his shoulders not the one in his pants.

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: pops ]</small>

FH your intentions are NOT born out of vengeance agains the OM but to protect Grace and YOUR family. It is OM's selfishness and not you that is hurting his family. HE should have thought about the repercusions to his family before he threw the first legal shot against you and pops, but he CHOSE not to. Pray that he starts becoming a real husband and father to his family because this, more than anything else, will help them heal and move on with their lives.

Boy, it's been a long time since I've posted here or even lurked. I have to confess that I haven't looked much further than this post yet but I might. I had to take a break from this place as it was not helping me much at the time. I don't even know if anyone will remember me. I used to go by "Want it Back". I'm sure Mom of Five knows me as well as a few others. For a quick recap of what my life is like now, it's great. H and I are doing so well that it is scary. I've grown and learned so much. It helps to have a man like the one I've got and I intend to never ever jepordize(sp?) that again.

The reason this thread caught my eye was because it was by full house and it was about CS. She and I have a bit in common.

A few months ago we went through a little bit of CS drama ourselves but not quite the same as yours. OM has been paying CS based on an income of almost $6,000 less than what he was actually earning for the past 2 years. $10,000 of my H's income is used on that support order. I get $90/week. Now, you have to consider that OM makes $10,000/yr more than my H does, has no other dependants while my H has our 2 children and myself. He has a $30,000 savings account no mortgage, and all the toys that a little boy needs. We have no savings and a 30 year mortgage.
I did not have a lawyer at the original support hearings, OM did. I was plain and simply snowed right over big time.

Several months ago I decided to go back to school. When I asked OM if he would be willing to help pay child care costs he flatly refused, saying he could not afford it. H and I took a good look at the financial situations of both OM and ourselves and decided to try and take him back to court. We could not afford a lawyer and I did all the paper work myself and served OM. Well long story short, OM did get a lawyer(he can afford one) and his (and his lawyer's) reply to my motion would have left us with less than what we are getting now. I know from experience that lawyers know all the tricks (sorry to any lawyers out there) and we could not take the chance of ending up with less than what we were getting. So we dropped the suit. We pay all child care costs, or I should say that my H does.

Recently things have not been so great at OM's place of employment. Both he and his girlfriend (who is a carbon copy of OM) work there. OM's pay was cut 11% and his GF was laid off. They moved in together last week. Do you think I'm considering going after her income now the way OM has gone after my H's? Hell no. I can tell you right now that it is not worth the crap. Sure we are a month behind in all our bills, have bill collectors calling and everything, but we have something that money can't buy. It was not my own decision. H and I discussed it and decided it was not worth it. I'll be done school in a year and go back to work and things will get better. I personally will happy when the day comes that I don't have to take a penny from OM. He has a way of trying to make me feel that I am indebted to him for the support he pays. I could go on and on about what a complete sorry excuse of a man he has turned out to be but we have found that the less we have to do with him the better.

My H loves my (our) daughter as if she were his. I have to take his word for it when he tells me that he is willing to take as much responsibility for her as he does for our 2. OM is not a man. He is a 46 year old child. I only wish I had 10 hours to type every single pathetic thing he has done in this past year. He is not a happy man and he tries to make everyone as miserable as he is. But guess what?? We are immune. We are in love. We are happy. We are acting like we did when we first starting dating. And no amount of money can take the place of that.

To any of the BS's out there who are hanging on at their wits end I'd like to give you some hope. I once thought the OM was God. The most perfect, wonderful, loving, thoughtful caring man that ever walked this earth. I thought he loved me in a way that no one had ever loved me before. The minute things stopped going his way he showed his true colors. Now all I see is the most immature, vindictive, selfish and dishonest person that I have ever laid eyes on.

My H turned out to be the person I thought the OM was. I thank God every day that he never gave up on me. I make sure my H knows every day that I'm glad he never gave up on me.

We are human. We make mistakes. The people who truly love us understand that and forgive us.

My H is Keith Demers. I want the world to know that I love him more than life itself.

HEY GIRL
Had to say hi, I am home with the flu or something so I cant sleep. Glad to hear from you, send me a new email adress. Lots to tell you. By the way, Glad to hear you and hubby are doing great.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My husband and I have been married 8 years, he is 30, and I am 28. We just had our 3rd child 4 weeks ago, the other two are 7 and 2.5.

I found out about his ONS and the resulting child 1 yr ago this August. The OW was the one to tell me, and we got DNA tests done to be sure. Unfortunately the test proved positive for him being the father, and the OW has recently decided to sue us for CS. I feel guilty because my husband and I both agree that we do not want to be involved in the OC's life. Maybe one day further down the line we will be able to be a part of the OC's life but I am not ready for that yet. I just want to do what is right for all involved.

I do not mind paying CS because I know it is only fair but she is asking for $550 a month. There is no way we can afford this much and I am afraid the courts may agree with her.

Does anyone know how CS is determined? Will they take into account my husband's other children with me? Will they count my income? Will they look at our bills? Should we have a lawyer in court with us? Please help!

look up your states attorney general office, lots of help there. All states are different, so it would be hard for any one to pin pint it.

Call a lawyer, many will consult the first time free and give loads of info.
also, ask around at church or work of a good attorney.
Whether you get involved or not, is your choice, but do protect your rights.

look up your states attorney general office, lots of help there. All states are different, so it would be hard for any one to pin point it.

Call a lawyer, many will consult the first time free and give loads of info.
also, ask around at church or work of a good attorney.
Whether you get involved or not, is your choice, but do protect your rights.