Marriage Builders
Posted By: BeanCounter2 BH needs help - 01/06/10 09:11 AM
I have been lurking here for over a week now and have followed a lot of threads. I was reluctant to register because my situation is a little different but I really need to be able to discuss this stuff with someone other than my wife.

My wife has had an emotional affair with two different men over the last 18 months. Neither affair ever became sexual. They consisted mainly of e-mails and she saw one of them on a work related trip.

I found out about the one with "Steven" because she was on the phone at work for over 3 hours one night. When she came home I asked her what the heck she was doing and she told me about the entire thing. I was dumbstruck. I sat up the entire night looking at our wedding pictures.

The next day I demanded she stop contact with him immediately and forever. She tried to put me off, saying she had to get ready for work and would do it later. I insisted. She sent an e-mail to a fake e-mail address and I thought it was settled at that point.

I installed a keylogger that day. That night I got her password and on a whim decided to enter her username and password into gmail to see if she had an account there. Motherlode. I read every conversation they had. He got romantic with her and insisted on meeting her. She said no several times but gave in before her trip to Philadelphia in November. One of the messages thanked him for the beer and said she enjoyed kissing him.

She had all ready disclosed the details but man it hurt to read that. She also was saying that she and her father were drawing up divorce papers and that our state was a no fault divorce state. (it isn't but she doesn't know that)

I foolishly told her I had his contact information and knew about her gmail account. I went off the deep end and threatened to ruin her career and her relationship with her family. After I dropped her off for work I went home and logged onto the computer. Sure enough she was chatting with him. She told him I had access to her e-mail and that they might have to stop talking because it could hurt her in the divorce. ("in a no fault divorce state")

I called her and asked rather sarcastically if I should start typing messages to him as well. I reiterated my threats and watched her tell him she had to break contact. She then hung up on me and as it turns out a fellow faculty member over heard the conversation and being a busy bodied old divorcee she immediately inserted herself into the situation and insisted that my wife go to her house and call her parents to tell them I was "threatening" her.

I called my wife between classes later that evening (she is a professor) to apologize and she told me she had spoken to her parents and asked them to "start thinking about lawyers."

I hung up and called my Mother in law to assure her that I would never intentionally hurt her daughter and that I had lost my cool in a very difficult situation. She seemed to understand.















Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 09:24 AM
When my wife got home that night I had a nice dinner waiting for her and asked her to let me speak for a while without interruption. She agreed and I told her how much she had hurt me and that I was sorry for losing my temper. She understood and we cried together for a while. She told me she never intended for it to become a romantic entanglement and that she would make sure there was no further contact. She also said she wasn't interested in him and that she was just looking for a "whiff" of romance.

I told her she would have to earn back my trust and demanded she smooth things over with her family. She agreed and called her parents the next day. She told them the entire story and said we were going to reconcile.

By Saturday I thought the situation was behind us. My wife had to attend graduation so I was surfing the net and drinking coffee. I opened her e-mail account on a whim and found a very sexual e-mail from a completely different man. The e-mail said "wow that scene was hot last night. I want your romance *******. I am going to think about that one in the shower tomorrow morning"


She had replied "I want you Frank."

"Frank" used to be married to Debbie. Debbie's sister Lisa was married to my wife's brother. He met her at her brother's wedding and had pursued her ever since.

I literally fell out of my chair. This was the love of my life. This was the woman I wanted to have children with. This was the only woman I had ever been with.

I got myself up and printed out the e-mail. When she walked in the door she called out to me and was very sweet but I was not in a generous mood. I casually asked her how Frank was doing and threw the e-mail down on the table in front of her.

Her first tactic was to attack me. She said it was very hard to respect me after my business went under in the summer/fall of 2008. She said after breaking contact with Steven that she compulsively contacted Frank and he immediately turned the conversation sexual. She said she stopped talking to him last February because she did not want to humor his desire for talking dirty.

I maintained my calm demeanor and said

"We are not doing this. You are helping some jerk off get his rocks off on the internet and KISSED another guy in Philadelphia. Can you please tae a moment to explain how in the hell this is about me? Are you just that good at mental gymnastics? Or are you just that sadistic?"

She tried to resume her attack and I said "Fine, let's get through the rest of teh school year as friends and I will make my departure this summer."

She looked thunderstruck after I said that. She knew I was serious. The idea that I might leave her really shook her up.

A few later she e-mail both guys in front of me and told them that any further contact was not apprpriate and that her marriage was too important to her to do any further damage.

She then gave me the passwords to all of her e-mail accounts and agreed that she had given up her right to be trusted for a long time. She told me she would rather die than go through life without me.

We agreed to postpone our trip to her parents house for Christmas a few days so we could get some things ironed out.

Her behavior since has been exemplary. We argued a lot and I realy laid on the guilt, but we also began to make love a lot more and when we were not arguing we were like a couple of newlyweds again.

Right after Christmas she had another work related trip. We went together to Pihiladelphia (ironically.) We argued most of the way there and she kept bringing up finances. I hit back with my nastiest thoughts on her dalliances.

That night in the hotel I stayed up late to check her laptop activity after she was asleep. I then decided to surf the web a bit and came across the MB website.

I devoured thread after thread and realized that my wife and I were not nearly as far gone as a lot of the couples on here. We talked over breakfast the next morning and I began making love deposits. After I kissed her good morning and smiled at me and suddenly began to cry. She apologized over and over again.

She told me she loved me dearly and was willing to do what ever it takes to win back my trust and make our marriage work. She explained that she was never interested in these guys, she said that the only reason these guys interested her at all is because they made her feel attractive. She said her secret internet world was a cheap thrill for her and was not worth the pain it caused me. She said she soothed her guilt by blaming my financial struggles.

She reminded me that before she went to Philadelphia the first time she had a terrible case of separation anxiety. At the time I chalked it up as travel jitters, but her sense of dread was her conscience.

We agreed that a couple of her friends are enablers and other than at work should be shut out socially. My WW's "friend" was with her in Philadelphia and told her that seeing this guy was fine, that "she deserved a little fun."

My wife went to her morning meeting and when she came back we had the "do not disturb" sign on our door the rest of the day. smile

I must admit I got a little guilty pleasure out of the fact that I spent an entire afternoon doing something that this other man could not even accomplish after shoving drink after drink at my wife for 6 hours.

We went back to Ohio and had a pretty uneventful rest of the vacation. I was depressed at times and she was really suffering from the guilt. Armed with the knowledge I got here I just kept making LD's in her bank.

After a week of steady deposits we are like a couple of teenagers. We drove home today and more than once we seriously considered pulling off and checking into a hotel.

I am constantly making deposits but remaining firm in my requirements. When the subject of the EA's comes up I make it clear that my requirements stand and then change the subject.

Things seem to be going well but I cannot shake the fear. I am constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop. Tonight I peaked at her faculty e-mail account and someone had e-mailed her on Christmas eve to wish her a Merry Christmas. I think it was a former student but the thing that bothered me is that the person wished her and a male dean a merry christmas simultaneously in an e-mail addressed only to my wife. Here is the text from the e-mail:

May you have the best Christmas ever. May peace and happiness be with you always. Wishing you and Dr ******* a merry Christmas this holiday season and a happy New Year!
Ina (Jun)

Now my wife knows I have access to her e-mail account so if there was anything untoward she would have deleted it. She was extremely thorough in covering up her tracks before things were exposed so I think it is innocent but it does bother me.

I am reading into EVERYTHING right now. I saw on my keylogger that she said she and someone else were "ships passing in the night" and that a February trip to Tenn. sounded great.

I asked her about it and she showed me the e-mail. It turned out that she was talking to a female friend about a couples weekend for the four of us. If i had taken the time to check the e-mail I would have realized it was innocent and avoided a discussion about our marriage.

I am so paranoid, and each time I show my paranoia I make a withdrawal from her lovebank.

Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Any insight or advice is most welcome and appreciated. It feels great to get soem of this out.
Posted By: Bryanp Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 11:14 AM
The fact that you have been married just a bit over a year and she has already been involved in two separate emotional affairs with two other men is horrible. I am sorry to say this but there is something terrible wrong with your wife. She sounds like she has a broken moral compass. How do you think she would be acting if the roles had been reversed?
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Bryanp
The fact that you have been married just a bit over a year and she has already been involved in two separate emotional affairs with two other men is horrible. I am sorry to say this but there is something terrible wrong with your wife. She sounds like she has a broken moral compass. How do you think she would be acting if the roles had been reversed?


She would have divorced me. Period.

We lost a lot of wealth when my business died, it was tough on both of us. I chose less destructive ways to cope. She decided to hedge her bets.
Posted By: _SOL Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 02:07 PM
Bean-

Is your WW willing to write a NC letter with you to these OM? If she says she is willing to do whatever it takes to regain trust, I think this would have to be a requirement.

I am sorry you are here, but this site is the best place to be for folks in our situation. It has helped me a great deal.
Posted By: Only_Human Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 02:29 PM
The paranoia is going to last quite a while. It will get less as time goes on. One of the things that really really helped me was that my WW gave me the safety to bring up when I had triggers or suspicion etc.

I remember I hated bringing it up but if something was really bothering me I would. The triggers lasted quite a while and even to this day I may get one once in a great while and I still bring it up. Also the sorrow and conviction I feel from her goes a long way in healing.

You should be very careful if she's had 2 EA's in one year of marriage, those aren't good odds.
Posted By: mindshare Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 02:59 PM
BC,

Sorry that you are here. It's the best club around that we all wish we were not part of.

Just to clarify, your WW apparently had 1 EA and 1 PA. If she was kissing OM then that is a PA around these parts. Are you 100% sure that is the entire story? She was in another town with OM drinking for 6 hours and all that happened was a kiss? Sorry but I'm quite skeptical about that one.

Keep reading posts here. Keep making LB deposits. Fill out the EN Questionaires with your WW and learn what her top EN's are (yours as well). Strive to meet those EN's. It sounds like you have a good start on EP's (extraordinary precautions) which will prevent your WW from putting herself into a position to allow this to happen again. I would suggest that you ask her to put together a list of EP's for how she is going to protect the marriage from another intrusion.

You have lots of work to do. Keep reading here and learning. Your situation sounds very salvageable but your WW has some major behavior changes to make.

Mindshare
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 03:15 PM
Beancounter, your wife sounds very selfish to me. It seems that her only need and concern is for her desires. She seems incapable of buckling down and doing the work necessary to keep a marriage going when things get tough.

This is exactly how my WW behaved. As long as I was earning good money and was in good health, we had a terrific relationship. But I lost my job a year ago and suffered a debilitating back problem, which started her dissatisfaction. I found work (that paid better!) and started receiving treatment for my back (which I still receive, but the help it's given me has restored me to a good 95% of my previous activity level). She also lost her job, so with time on her hands and a OM who didn't have to face the day to day requirements of having to make a living for two, it was easy for her to get involved in FantasyAffairLand.

To complete this picture, she incapable of feeling remorse over her actions (read my thread - in my signature, if you want to see what I'm referring to) or seeing that her actions harm others - or to even care that she hurts others.

The point I'm trying to make is that some people are just emotionally broken, damaged or incomplete. Psychologists and psychiatrists refer to them as having "personality disorders." You might want to read some information on this site or this one to see if your wife fits one of the profiles.

I didn't want to think my sweet, loving, principled wife could be "damaged," but the more I researched, the more distressingly astounded I became. The amazing thing about MB is that people here are willing to help me recover! There may be some who think my WW is simply "in a fog" and can fully recover, but most I think, have come to believe that she is "the leopard who cannot change her spots" and that recovery in my case means getting her out and over as soon as possible.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 03:50 PM
Short marriage, no kids. Thank GOD everyday the rest of your life you found this out early on. I know this is MB, but you need to consider plan D while she is still foggy. It sounds like a very risky situation going forward. DUDE
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:23 PM
Thanks for the good advice guys. I will take it all into consideration.

I am 99.9 percent certain the PA did not go beyond kissing for a couple of reasons.

1. I saw the chat conversation they had when she got back. She thanked him for the drinks and said she enjoyed kissing him. She did not know I found her secret e-mail account at that time.

2. There was not much of an opportunity there. he lives in NYC and arrived and left via public transportation. She was staying in a hotel room with a woman she works with so her room was not available.

3. My wife is very self centered and can be very cruel at times, but when she is caught in a lie she comes completely clean. That has been her pattern since we met in 1996.

We had a very long engagement because she was so self absorbed. I thought she had outgrown it when we finally got married, but clearly she has not.

She did send each man an e-mail in front of me telling them that contact between them is no longer acceptable. I had both of their e-mail addresses in my files so I know she sent them to the right places.

We have agreed to NC and I have access to everything except her office computer. I have key loggers on both home computers and check them daily. She knows I have her passwords because she gave them to me, but she does not know about the keylogger.

My plan is this:
I am giving her 6 months. I finish my accounting degree in May and will be able a lot more mobile job and employment wise. At that point if things have not changed dramatically I will move into plan B and then D.

Her behavior has been exemplary so far but I am not going to be lulled into letting my guard down. She will not be traveling alone either.

One good thing I suppose is that I know now that the emotional cruelty had nothing to do with me. She was always trying to justify her dalliances by blaming me. The pattern was that whenever the contact was ongoing she would verbally beat me up and tell my she was going to divorce me because of the financial situation.

That does not work on me anymore. Period.

I think I am also going to tell her to delete her face book account after reading the thread about it here. I also will not tolerate her poisoning the water with people in regards to me. She did that with her family for years and with her ex friends.

Overall she is genuinely sorry and admits that what she did was terribly wrong and extremely selfish. She says she is willing to do whatever it takes to save the marriage. She told me she would rather die than live life without me.

I am in wait and see mode. I all ready told her that I see better than I hear.

Any further advice or comments are welcome. I am going to read up on the personality disorder thing. If she has one that is probably something we can get her some help with.






Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:31 PM
Just stay strong my friend. Don't let her think you are too much of a nice guy and she can walk all over you. That abuse is something you can not handle...DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:36 PM
I think you should require her to go to HER family, WITH you, and apologize for everything she's ever said about you. While she's in the mood, you know.

fwiw, Houston was just about the least hard hit city in America during the recession; it still has dozens of job openings for every one in most other cities. Consider relocating here. Average temp this week: 50-80. $200,000 gets you a 3000-sq-ft brick house. Aerospace industry. One of the biggest medical communities in the world (and we all know how much THEY use accountants!). And the oil & gas capital of the world. Just sayin'...
Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:40 PM
What about Dallas/Fort Worth? We have all that plus THE COWBOYS, BABY!!!!!!!!! DUDE
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:54 PM
I grew up in El Paso. I have been to DFW and Houston many times. I am from Cincinnati originally and am a Bengals fan so I am glutton for punishment in so many ways. frown

I may have her do the apology thing with her family. I feel so powerless when we go there. She knows it and uses it against me.

I did a little research and it does seem like she may have a mild borderline personality disorder. It might just be time to update my list of conditions to include therapy. Her brother is almost maniacal at times so it might run in the family.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
I grew up in El Paso. I have been to DFW and Houston many times. I am from Cincinnati originally and am a Bengals fan so I am glutton for punishment in so many ways. frown

I may have her do the apology thing with her family. I feel so powerless when we go there. She knows it and uses it against me.

I did a little research and it does seem like she may have a mild borderline personality disorder. It might just be time to update my list of conditions to include therapy. Her brother is almost maniacal at times so it might run in the family.

Not to miminize what you are going through, but your Bengals may be in for a quick exit from the playoffs this weekend. They looked horrible against the Jets. I do like Ced Benson though. Of course, we all know what school he came out of...DUDE
Posted By: mindshare Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:00 PM
BC,

You seem to have a reasonable and well thought out plan. Please read up on EP's and ask her to put together her own list that you can review.

Also, if you are going to give her six months to improve then no matter what....under any circumstances...do not allow her to get pregnant!!! Plenty of women have used this tool to keep a husband around. You should not consider allowing her to be in control of the birth control situation while you are in this evaluation period. The last thing that you want to do is bring a child into this situation until you have a recovered marriage and are committed to staying together for the long haul.

Mindshare
Posted By: TheRoad Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:14 PM
"My wife is very self centered and can be very cruel at times, but when she is caught in a lie she comes completely clean. That has been her pattern since we met in 1996.

We had a very long engagement because she was so self absorbed. I thought she had outgrown it when we finally got married, but clearly she has not."

You have married someone that clearly thinks she is a trophy wife. Rules do not apply to her. Divorce her because you are young and I don't want to see you here years from now when there have been three more OM.

I have seen this happen too many times. Get out while the gettings good.
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
I grew up in El Paso. I have been to DFW and Houston many times. I am from Cincinnati originally and am a Bengals fan so I am glutton for punishment in so many ways. frown

I may have her do the apology thing with her family. I feel so powerless when we go there. She knows it and uses it against me.

I did a little research and it does seem like she may have a mild borderline personality disorder. It might just be time to update my list of conditions to include therapy. Her brother is almost maniacal at times so it might run in the family.

Not to miminize what you are going through, but your Bengals may be in for a quick exit from the playoffs this weekend. They looked horrible against the Jets. I do like Ced Benson though. Of course, we all know what school he came out of...DUDE

Hehe I always have time to talk football. It keeps me sane.

The Jets don't scare me too much. They hammered a very vanilla game plan on Sunday. I don't recall a single blitz. They beat the Stealers twice this season so anything else is gravy either way.
Posted By: themud Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:38 PM
Gawd, Get out now!
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"My wife is very self centered and can be very cruel at times, but when she is caught in a lie she comes completely clean. That has been her pattern since we met in 1996.

We had a very long engagement because she was so self absorbed. I thought she had outgrown it when we finally got married, but clearly she has not."

You have married someone that clearly thinks she is a trophy wife. Rules do not apply to her. Divorce her because you are young and I don't want to see you here years from now when there have been three more OM.

I have seen this happen too many times. Get out while the gettings good.

If only it were that simple. I love my wife deeply and profoundly. It would be so much easier if I could shut that off and just make a rational decision and live with it.

I am also a catholic which complicates the whole divorce issue a lot.
Posted By: ManInMotion Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
I am giving her 6 months.

I think you should walk away now while it is relatively easy to do so. Take this from someone who also gave a cheater a chance - only to go through much worse from her years later when joint property and children make it a lot less easier to walk away.

Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
If only it were that simple. I love my wife deeply and profoundly. It would be so much easier if I could shut that off and just make a rational decision and live with it.

I am also a catholic which complicates the whole divorce issue a lot.
BC, I can't address the Catholic question, but apparently Ted Kennedy could. That's all I'll say on that topic.

But for the rest, I so identify with you. I also see the deluge of comments coming your direction from people I've read and learned to respect all saying the same thing: Stay in your current marriage, the way it is, and you are asking for a future filled with heartache, health problems, PTSD, and life that surrounds you and chokes you at every turn. Is this what you truly want?

I met and married "the leopard" (my new nickname for her) because I found her delightfully alluring, charming, caring, like-minded, determined, and a host of other attributes that just shouted at me: She's.The.One.For.You.

Never mind that she'd been married three times before. That she'd left each and every husband. That she even left her children. That she was financially irresponsible and owed the IRS unpaid taxes while ruining her own credit, overdrawing her checking account -- and not even buying extravagantly! She appeared to be quite health-oriented, and very conscientious about looking good. I didn't know that she was a binge-and-purge eater, and is currently paying the medical consequences for being so. That she has decided to return to smoking after having been abstinent for so many years is a testament to how dedicated she is to the "healthy lifestyle."

No, BC, that's on me. Folks here -- as well as my very own DD27 -- saw things more clearly than I did. The redflag redflag were all there waving brightly in front of me. I chose to ignore them, believing that "this time it would be different." Now you see why I've chosen to refer to her as the Leopard. Spots don't change...

You and I and our stories share a lot of similarities. I'm still wrestling with the sleep issue (see my thread title), I've lost the mandatory "my-wife-is-having-an-affair diet" weight loss, and I have moments when I supremely sad that things have turned out the way they have.

The good people here have guided me and supported each step of the way. They have allowed ME to make my own decisions, and then showed me how to proceed. The biggest lesson I've learned here is that no matter how things turn out, I need to be good to --and for-- myself. It's why I continue to inhabit this forum. I am not likely to be one of those whose marriage was recovered, but I may be considered one of those whose marriage SHOULDN'T have been recovered. The "win" in this situation is that I have learned from, and am trying to incorporate MB's principles into my life moving forward.

Please think long a seriously about this, BC. If you want to recover your marriage, the pros here will go overboard helping you do so -- as long as you let them, and follow their proven tactics and techniques. However, you first have to come to the decision that recovering your marriage is indeed, the best thing for your mental, physical and emotional health.

I wish we could just go back to the days described by Nathaniel Hawthorne and just require all waywards to wear the letter "A" in full public view.
Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
I grew up in El Paso. I have been to DFW and Houston many times. I am from Cincinnati originally and am a Bengals fan so I am glutton for punishment in so many ways. frown

I may have her do the apology thing with her family. I feel so powerless when we go there. She knows it and uses it against me.

I did a little research and it does seem like she may have a mild borderline personality disorder. It might just be time to update my list of conditions to include therapy. Her brother is almost maniacal at times so it might run in the family.

Not to miminize what you are going through, but your Bengals may be in for a quick exit from the playoffs this weekend. They looked horrible against the Jets. I do like Ced Benson though. Of course, we all know what school he came out of...DUDE

Hehe I always have time to talk football. It keeps me sane.

The Jets don't scare me too much. They hammered a very vanilla game plan on Sunday. I don't recall a single blitz. They beat the Stealers twice this season so anything else is gravy either way.

Well, we'll see. So, since you are studying accounting, you know that "sunk costs are irrelevant to future decisions"? You understand that concept is applicable here w/ your marriage. DUDE
Posted By: catperson Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
What about Dallas/Fort Worth? We have all that plus THE COWBOYS, BABY!!!!!!!!! DUDE
lol, maybe so, but at least we don't have to keep a snow shovel around. rotflmao
Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Originally Posted by Dude007
What about Dallas/Fort Worth? We have all that plus THE COWBOYS, BABY!!!!!!!!! DUDE
lol, maybe so, but at least we don't have to keep a snow shovel around. rotflmao

No prob, w/ all the HOT people up here like me, the snow just melts as we walk by it...DUDE
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
Originally Posted by Dude007
Originally Posted by BeanCounter2
I grew up in El Paso. I have been to DFW and Houston many times. I am from Cincinnati originally and am a Bengals fan so I am glutton for punishment in so many ways. frown

I may have her do the apology thing with her family. I feel so powerless when we go there. She knows it and uses it against me.

I did a little research and it does seem like she may have a mild borderline personality disorder. It might just be time to update my list of conditions to include therapy. Her brother is almost maniacal at times so it might run in the family.

Not to miminize what you are going through, but your Bengals may be in for a quick exit from the playoffs this weekend. They looked horrible against the Jets. I do like Ced Benson though. Of course, we all know what school he came out of...DUDE

Hehe I always have time to talk football. It keeps me sane.

The Jets don't scare me too much. They hammered a very vanilla game plan on Sunday. I don't recall a single blitz. They beat the Stealers twice this season so anything else is gravy either way.

Well, we'll see. So, since you are studying accounting, you know that "sunk costs are irrelevant to future decisions"? You understand that concept is applicable here w/ your marriage. DUDE

I get what you are saying. If we are going to use financial metaphors I guess I am a stop loss guy. I have my limit in mind. If my limit is passed I will protect myself in whatever way I need to.

It would be very easy to make a rash judgment. I, much like she has done in the past am painting a pretty one sided picture on here.

I am willing to take the time to make sure whatever my decision in the end is that I don't have any regrets.

Yes, my best friend betrayed me. Yes it hurt. A lot. More than I ever thought it was possible to hurt. Just three weeks from finding out I am in no position to make anything other than a rash emotional decision.

If at some in the next few months it becomes clear that she is unwilling to work on herself I will take my leave.

Posted By: Dude007 Re: BH needs help - 01/06/10 07:37 PM
Well, further feeding the financial concept of conservatism, maybe some put options might be a hedge. ie just do a little calculating on how better you might be if you took the out. Is her rate of return positive or is she a cash drain on you??!! wink DUDE
Posted By: Zelmo Re: BH needs help - 01/07/10 12:06 AM
You should be paranoid. I bet you know the tip of the iceberg with this woman. She is manipulative to the max, a habitual liar.
You are young and have no kids, right? I'd bail asap.
Posted By: Zelmo Re: BH needs help - 01/07/10 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"My wife is very self centered and can be very cruel at times, but when she is caught in a lie she comes completely clean. That has been her pattern since we met in 1996.

We had a very long engagement because she was so self absorbed. I thought she had outgrown it when we finally got married, but clearly she has not."

You have married someone that clearly thinks she is a trophy wife. Rules do not apply to her. Divorce her because you are young and I don't want to see you here years from now when there have been three more OM.

I have seen this happen too many times. Get out while the gettings good.

I agree, totally. Happened to me. You will be lonely as hell with a spouse like this.
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 09:13 AM
Another very good day today. Nothing to report from key logger or any e-mail accounts.

We had a very long conversation last night and she definitely seems to "get it."

I think because I was having one of those trigger days yesterday I neglected to talk about some other things about her and us.

My wife's selfish and cruel behavior was only during the A. In order to assuage her guilt she justified her behavior by blaming me and my troubles. She also had a female friend that I would describe as a meddling enabler that helped things along. This friend is out of her personal life and only has a professional relationship with her now.

When my wife is not wandering and doing mental gymnastics to relieve her guilt she is truly a special person. She is extraordinarily kind, loving, and patient. She has some growing up to do for sure, but she has made more progress in 3 weeks than she did in 13 years.

I am really blunt with her about everything. When I tell her how the A made me feel she cries. Not the crocodile look at me type of tears, just quiet sad remorseful tears. I think she really understands how much damage she did. She is making a very strong effort and I am proud of her, but I am firm in my requirements. She knows what has to happen and that it is non-negotiable.

Our LD's are really starting to build. Between discussions about the A we are like two love sick teenagers lately. I know things can go south again in a hurry so we are going ahead with catholic marriage counseling (very recovery oriented) and I am sticking to my guns on full disclosure.

On a side note, "Frank" tried to contact her at work today. She hung up on him and called me immediately. We think he might be obsessed with her. I think he is also stalking her on the internet and we get a lot of caller id blocked calls with no one on the other end. I am pretty sure it was him because one of the calls showed up on caller ID as being from the town he lives in. She is becoming afraid of him and very upset that she exposed me to something like this. She wants to get a restraining order if it keeps up. I think we may go get one either way at this point. She is also thinking about telling her parents the whole story. Her Dad is an attorney so his help would be tremendous.

Anyway, things are progressing. She has only balked at the terms a couple of times and has apologized profusely afterward. Oh and she gets paranoid when I am quiet for a while. She is very worried about my plans.







Posted By: catperson Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 03:43 PM
You haven't told her parents about her affair yet?
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 05:21 PM
I'm all for a BH working with a WW who is remorseful. The thing about your WW that gives me pause, and others have mentioned this, is that she gives me the impression of a woman who won't change her spots.

My gut tells me she is someone with deep emotional scars, likely out of some sort of childhood abuse. She's awfully flaky about getting attention and needing constant attentiona and seeking it elsewhere if she's not getting it right away.

That means there is some deep psychological scars.

I strongly advise you that you make therapy for her a requirement for reconciliation. You should ask her to see someone for a long period of time to help her understand why she does what she does in terms of attention from men and how to stop it.

The why someone does something isn't as important as the behavior itself. For example, I know why I'm fat and need to lose weight. I overeat for various reasons. The important thing is that I not continue the behavior and correct it in order to change.

Therapy can help her change her behaviors. You're otherwise just temporarily correcting a problem which will surface later.
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
You haven't told her parents about her affair yet?

No. They know part of the story. As long as she remains true to her words about NC I do not intend to disclose the rest of it. Her family knowing about "frank" would be rather explosive. There is a history there that would take me pages and pages to explain.

Exposure is about destroying the fantasy world and ending all contact. I have accomplished that and will keep the other stuff in my arsenal as sort of a nuclear option. If he keeps trying to contact her though we might have to speak with them either way.

The fantasy world she lived in is dead.

Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by helpthelostdads
I'm all for a BH working with a WW who is remorseful. The thing about your WW that gives me pause, and others have mentioned this, is that she gives me the impression of a woman who won't change her spots.

My gut tells me she is someone with deep emotional scars, likely out of some sort of childhood abuse. She's awfully flaky about getting attention and needing constant attentiona and seeking it elsewhere if she's not getting it right away.

That means there is some deep psychological scars.

I strongly advise you that you make therapy for her a requirement for reconciliation. You should ask her to see someone for a long period of time to help her understand why she does what she does in terms of attention from men and how to stop it.

The why someone does something isn't as important as the behavior itself. For example, I know why I'm fat and need to lose weight. I overeat for various reasons. The important thing is that I not continue the behavior and correct it in order to change.

Therapy can help her change her behaviors. You're otherwise just temporarily correcting a problem which will surface later.

Oh there is a very deep scar. She grew up with one of the most toxic people I know of. Her brother on a daily basis throughout their childhood abused her emotionally. There was also some very brief and very minor sexual abuse from him. No actual molestation or anything like that happened but the line was at least blurred.

He also used to play really cruel jokes on her. She was really heavy as a child and he used to tell fill her head with the idea that some boy had a crush on her. He would then sit back and laugh as she proceeded to act on this and embarrass herself horribly.

He is still quite abrasive today, but not blatantly abusive.

Her parents strategy to deal with it was to heap praise on her. As a teenager they lavished praise on her and when she made mistakes they blamed everyone else on her behalf. Today their relationship is literally obsessive praise and words of affection.

They refuse to see their children as anything but perfect. When her brother cheated on his wife and divorced her they blamed his wife. They said he needed to be happy and the affair was justified by his wife's shortcomings. They never even once condemned his infidelity and still will not do so today. He is getting married again in May and it is obvious how that will end.

So we have a very beautiful and truly kind young woman that on one hand is convinced that she is ugly and worthless and on the other hand convinced that she ***** gold bricks. It is very difficult to deal with when she is in either mode.

She told me the other day that she wished her parents would take a moral stand on something with her and actually teach her something other than how to justify poor behavior.

I am definitely going to have her do therapy. She is at a point in her life where she finally has some clarity and I believe there is a real opportunity here for healing.

I pretend to like her brother but every time I see him I just want to punch him in the throat.

Posted By: catperson Re: BH needs help - 01/08/10 07:53 PM
Get her this book: Healing the Shame That Binds You, by Bradshaw. Amazing book.
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/09/10 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by catperson
Get her this book: Healing the Shame That Binds You, by Bradshaw. Amazing book.

Thanks! Will order that from Amazon.
Posted By: BeanCounter2 Re: BH needs help - 01/26/10 05:34 PM
It has been a couple of weeks since my last post so I thought an update was in order.

Everything seems to be going well.

My wife and I are communicating well, she has not had contact with either OM and she has not changed any pass words or opened up any new e-mail accounts.

She never chats on the internet any more. Her computer usage is pretty much work related and you tube.

We are communicating well and very affectionate.

She is still having a hard time dealing with the guilt. She cries when something reminds her of it. We watched The Notebook yesterday and she broke down. She kept apologizing over and over again.

She really seems to get it and demonstrates real remorse. She says the pain she saw on my face is something she will never forget.

Strangely, between the occasional bouts of anger I am happier than I have ever been with her. We talk constantly, she is always willing to listen. She said that "it is up to me" to decide when we are recovered and that she will do anything I ask of her.

I am still consumed with anger at times. If it were possible to get away with it I feel like would do something terrible. I always fight the urge to contact them myself just so I can have a voice in all of it. I have typed out e-mails that I never sent and never will, but it helps to get my thoughts out.

As far as the trust issue goes, I am now in that trust but verify stage. I believe the things she tells me and I follow up with my own due diligence. She understands that I need to protect myself.

Things are going well, but I am surprised by how intense my anger still is. The fantasy world she lived in has been destroyed and she sees the jackals for what they are. We are well on the road to recovery but I cannot figure out how to let go of the rage.
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