Just curious about this.

My wife continually says she wants a divorce but won't move out and won't file either. It's like she wants me to do it. Is this common?

Do they somehow want to absolve themselves of the guilt of destroying the marriage by telling themselves "well I never divorced them, they were the ones who filed" or is it something else?

mine did... twice now. He really wanted me to do it, but when I refused, he started the process. And he had the balls to ask me to pull the files he needed! Because "we work well as a team." whaaaa?

In canada, you can't file for a D until you have been separated for 12 months. I will let you know in 7.5 months. That being said, my WH hasn't filed for LS.

Mine was the same way. She started threatening about filing in December, but never actually did anything. That is until March 8th, when she did file.

So at least in my case, WW did eventually file. I still don't think she has really thought it through. I also think my case is more of an exception rather than the rule. At least from what I've seen on here.

Man, I wish I lived there.....

Really? But then you never know if they are really going to file in the 12 months or just leave you hanging. It is no fault as well and I can't do anything LEGALLY to keep OW away from my kids. It's not all rosy. I have seen people on here from Ireland(I think) say that it takes like 4-5 years to D. Now that would just be torture.

I guess it could be worse. I shouldn't complain.

I suppose, but I guess in my case everything has happened so fast and this would have given me time. Eh, wishful thinking I guess...

Actually are u sure about that,Scotland? Because i'm in Canada too and if one partner has committed adultery then the BS can get a divorce right away, and it's over within a few months.... Not that u should file if u are not ready, of course...

I asked my sister about that too but she said that when she talked to her lawyer that her lawyer said that it still takes 12 months of separation and then you can file and 31 days later you are divorced. I was reading the websites though and that's why I questioned. I thought that meant that I could file if I had wanted too. Maybe in her case she didn't have enough proof.

I am not filing until my end date of Plan B. I am working the MB plans and that is MY PLAN.

Oh yes, you have to have proof. My lawyer told me I could file anytime since I have proof and it would only take a few months.

I too am not ready to file. My fam keeps bugging me about this and it's getting annoying. They don't seem to get that I WANT to save my marriage....

In my case, Skatt hasn't filed. She prefers mediation. Unfortunately, that requires BOTH parties to do the heavy lifting, and so far, she's doing the feathers-and-paperclips type of lifting. I think she would just prefer to live a divorced life without having to be bothered with all of that pesky paperwork and the extra costs associated with it.

In California, there is a six month "cooling off" period after the papers are filed, so the epic tale of TB has a few more chapters left in it. Sorry to break the news to ya......

TB

In my case, I think the answer is yes.

My WW moved out, though. Even though she had no place to go, no job and no money, she was insistent on moving out. Once we had it in writing she had no choice (not that she even tried to back out of it).

However, when we talked about who would/could file (it's a "no-fault" state with no children) she seemed to think it should be me who filed. Yes, I think this supports her contention that I "fell out of love" with her, which justified her having the affair.

At one point, I thought of simply just waiting it out. Knowing the affair would die, I considered placing the ball in her court and make her file if she truly wanted to leave me and go with OM.

But as time and Plan B worked their magic, I came to realize that my Love Bank was overdrawn and that with her past and presumed personality disorder, I was better off ending it and going my separate way. If this assuages her guilt, then so be it. It really makes no difference to me any more.

Once my XH gave me the "I want to move out" speech in 7/08, he had an agenda.

Separate first, wait a few months and then we can file for D??? He was a "nice" guy and waited till after the holidays and filed in 1/09...Never cake ate, no false recovery -- just onto a path of self destruction

Ark,

This doesn�t strike me as unusual in the least for an off-the-deep-end, emotionally-addicted WW.

�she wants a divorce� = she�s in an active affair that she doesn�t want to give up or even admit to.
�she won�t file either� = she doesn�t want the appearance of being the �bad guy�; she wants you to do it so she doesn�t have to.

The only other reason she may threaten divorce but not follow through on it herself is that she is caught betwixt and between the 2 relationships, is confused and �cake-eating� a bit, and in effect wants you to resolve her guilt-conflict by making the decision for her.

I got a lot of this above stuff from my then-WW for months while she was carrying on her clandestine affair and I was sincerely trying to get her to reconcile and work together on us. There were some moments of real engagement from her but I soon learned that they were just cake-eating, dipping-a-toe-in-the-water things while she weighed her options (this is why snooping and exposure is so important). I later came to learn the real truth. She was just manipulating me while she waited to see if OM was going to stick it out with her (and not dump her or reconcile with his wife). She was just �trying to see if I can get my feelings back� (towards me) while of course continuing to indulge them with her lover (we all know how impossible that is�the affair must END FIRST). She never followed through on any of her promises or half-hearted efforts to 'work together' for us. It was all a sham, a game, and a farce....covered by more lies than I can count designed to CYA her adultery with a married POSOM..

As soon as her OM�s marriage was clearly doomed (OMW found the affair before I did and filed immediately as he was a serial cheater & child-abandoner; my WW deleted messages from OMW on my email meant to warn/inform me), OM ran to my WW as a social/financial backstop. I know that my WW had merely been a sexual plaything up till then and that he would never had agreed to marry her if she had been broke instead of well-off. As soon as WW & OM had their private �engagement party�, she went to a lawyer w/o even talking to me. I got an attorney�s letter in the mail and found my house cleaned out of �her things� one day.

That�s how disloyal, ungrateful, and cowardly these people are. They can�t even face you and tell you the truth about the betrayal they inflict upon those that loved them.

Sorry to say, but if you won't file (like myself who wanted to make her bear full responsibility for doing so), an unrepentant-WW will eventually do it.

LOL, that's funny...my WW waited until just after the holidays--when her "affair-engagement party" took place--as well. She even bought and mailed me a Christmas gift to assuage her guilt ($65 framed!). How nice of her!

I later tossed it in the trash along with her wedding bouquet from our ceremony in 1995.

My wife wont admit that her EA (I presume) is an affair. They are just friends, but she cannot NOT talk with him for any real length of time.

She tells me that she doesn't know if she can cut him out of her life forever because he is her friend and she cares about him.

I've asked her to move out for over a month so I could get in Plan B but she keeps waffling back and forth saying "I'm leaning toward divorce but am staying for the boys and because of your threats to seek sole custody".

I've told her to not come home. That only prompted her to call her lawyer and she keeps coming home.

So I guess I will have to file to get her out. Just wondering if anyone else had similar problems.

Ark,

This is standard WW stuff, as you know.

There is no point in asking her about her affair. She will only continue to lie. All WWs lie their butt off. Mine looked me right in the eyes and lied repeatedly. She lied to EVERYBODY. Yours is doing the same. The only truth you're going to find out about it is that you acquire via your own means. She will NOT tell you the truth so don't bother asking.

The "we are just friends" is a nearly universal bull***t line from WWs. I heard that one too. WWs will confess to having all these strong, irresistible feelings but then try to couch their affair as "just friends". Secrecy & Deception are the hallmarks of ALL affairs -- their relationship is way more than just friends and you both know that.

Unless her and OM are only communicating long-distance and have not (yet) met in person (which I doubt), their affair is not 'just an EA'. Don't buy that one either (not that it really matters). If they have met, they have been sleeping together--bet the farm on it. WWs almost always cop to the emotions but try to deny the sex. Been there too...

She's emotionally-addicted and refuses to give up OM. That's why she cannot resist talking to him and can't see herself without him in her life. Standard stuff here. The fury of WW and OM upon exposure is also typical as you know. Ignore it.

Facebook is evil and toxic to marriages. NO married person should ever be on FB. Many, many affairs begin there--esp. with old flames like this one.

Don't leave your house!

Talk to an atty about the laws in your state. Can you enforce a mandatory legal separation since she is actively cheating?

Ark, are you sure you even want to Plan A/B this marriage? This woman has now cheated on you TWICE...that you know of. I would be thinking hard about handing her walking papers and tossing her out permanently. Up to you, so sorry...

Thanks. Didn't mean to start another thread about me. I have one already under Broken No Contact. Just curious about that particular question.

I struggle with whether I want her or not. The answer is I don't really want her, but she is a keystone in our family and I do want my family.

But it looks like that isn't going to happen so I planning on filing soon. She won't stop the contact and she won't leave the house. Something has to give.

I think my WH was thinking, once he fell in love with OW, that the longer he could get away with the affair behind my back, the more of a chance that I would find out and divorce him....When I found out and I wanted him to stop seeing OW and work on our M, he was in shock...he kept telling me that I couldnt possibly still love him and how could I love him because he really hadnt treated me well the past few years....

That way in his own warped way, if I divorced him, it wouldnt be like he threw me away...it would be like he was cheating but I was the one who wanted divorce him....He really got nasty when I exposed the A and told everyone that I was trying to save my M.

And it was funny because he kept asking me "so you agree with me this marriage cant be saved, right?"....He would get really mad when my answer was "Absolutly this marriage could be saved, if you gave up OW and we worked on our problems." It was like he needed me to say that the marriage had NO chance to recover.

He did not and still doesnt want to take any responsiblity for the destruction of our M....He wanted it to be that I wasnt giving him what he needed, he wasnt happy, he cheated and now I wanted a D.

When in actuality it was we both werent getting what we needed, he wasnt happy, he cheated, he allowed himself to fall in love with OW, He chose OW over his family....He alone wanted a D. (which HE wont even file for, HE is waiting for me to be the one to do it.)






Its funny I was thinkin the same thing.....I posted this on another thread....This is what I am goin thru...stupid waywards.

Oh, sure, waywards file. In my case, mine was dead set on having both a family *and* girlfriends and he wasn't about to back down on this. For him it was (1)way too much fun, (2) he would never admit he was wrong to behave that way, and (3) IMHO there's definitely SA involved because like any addict his behaviour just got more extreme and more destructive.

He filed when he finally realized for certain that I would never, ever, ever in a million years tolerate his girlfriends in any way or for any reason - when he realized that no excuse or justification would ever "work".

He tried bribing me (gifts, trips, new car, etc.)

He tried bullying me (stonewalling me, ignoring me, disappearing on me.)

None of this made me back down. And I told him that I would never ever help him destroy and dismantle our family, either, and that he would have to do that himself. The only thing I wanted was for him to knock it off with the other women and come home and be a husband and father to our family.

When even my own nervous breakdown did not make me back down from this position, he finally moved out and filed.

I think the divorce was just the ultimate in bullying - it was my punishment for daring to stand up to the Big Boss. The rest of his girls are airheaded little yes-twits who either work for him - yes, *work for him* at his Big Corporation - or are otherwise paid to do what he wants as strippers, geisha, porn actresses, etc. etc. etc. you get the idea.

I refused to be one of his little employees and insisted on being an equal partner. So he fired me.

So, yeah, sometimes waywards do file. XWH said that "moving on" would make him "happy", so I assume he's very happy now with full-time girls 24/7 and no one getting in his way (like me). But I would not know because I have not seen him or spoken to him in almost two years.

The rest of us are not happy about this. But apparently he is, and that's all that mattered.

Dont take this the wrong way Mulan, I know what you are goin thru all too well....but I think you are lucky to get rid of him, really...He sounds like a real entitled a$$...Hope you are doin okay now.

Hope, Mulan and the others whose WH filed for divorce...did these WH actually self destruct at some point or are they still with OW having fun?
Just curious..

blessing

Mine filed for D.

My WH moved out and within a week filed for legal separation. That left me in a position where I had to respond and I KNOW he thought I would respond with D. (which I initially did, then rescended it). I believe that he wanted me to file for D so then he could say, "I only wanted a separation to 'think about things', she's the one that filed for D".

Of course, a couple weeks after I rescended my request for D, he turned around and filed.

Yeah, I know what you mean - I went into "Plan B" when he left and have 100% cut off all contact. That way, at the very least I don't have him rubbing his girlfriends in my face anymore and he has never been able to rub his divorce in my face.

The trouble is - he was a wonderful husband and father for about 10-12 years, before he started working for his Big Corporation and started acting like a crackhead in a crackhouse who kept going to work in the crackhouse every single day. Only in his case, it wasn't crack - it was girls.

I still miss the man he was, terribly. I miss having a husband and being part of a couple. I miss having my family intact. But I couldn't stomach his girlfriends, not even to have my family back again. He thought I would cave, if he just held out long enough.

That didn't happen. So he left. His addiction was far stronger - it always is.

He is like a textbook case for addiction of any kind with the lies (to protect the fix), the escalation (because it takes more and more of the fix to get an effect), and the massive selfishness to the point of destroying one's own family (because families get in the way of the fix).

It's just sad and stupid and it will never be okay. But nobody can stop an addict except the addict himself, and that only happens if/when they hit bottom. XWH will never hit bottom as long as he has a corporate job someplace, and he'll always have that.

I told him once that in the end, I would have nothing for him but pity. And I don't. I really don't.

I know what you mean, I terribly miss my old H. It is very very hard...but there are alot of us here who can Identify with you, me included....It just su@ks and there is nothin we can do about it. At least they are happy, right?..Yeah, right...Jerks!

Hi atena,
My XWH didn't have just one OW - he 100% fits the definition of a sex addict and is a bottomless pit for female attention of every kind, from waitresses to his own corporate female employees to strippers to every other female he he can pay/bribe/manipulate to do what he wants.

So, he'll never run out of supply to have fun with.

Is he happy? I assume so. I have not seen him or spoken to him in close to two years. Last I heard (accidentally, from dealing with insurance and legal hassles due to the divorce) he's still in town and apparently bought a house, but that's it.

He used to be extremely close to DS22, who still shares the family home with me. I never ask DS if/when he's spending time with his father, but I do know when the kid is here, or at work, or at school, or whatever - and there seems to be very little time when he could be seeing Dad.

This surprises me. As I said, they were always very close and I have not interfered with their relationship in any way, so both are entirely free to see each other whenever they want.

But hey, single guys don't like having the kids around when the girls are coming over to Girl Central. People who betray their spouses betray their children, too, and don't ever let them tell you they don't. And that betrayal sure doesn't stop with divorce.

Is XWH happy now? I don't know. I can only assume so, since he said that "moving on" would make him happy.

I warned DS22 not to be surprised if his father got married again. He absolutely wanted both a wife *and* girlfriends - he just loved that lifestyle until of course it all came crashing down - and if he finds some doormat female that he thinks will put up with it in return for his money (unlike his last wife, who was just so crazy and controlling and couldn't see the great offer he was making) - no, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got married again.

And boy, it would be everything he deserves.

Ark,

Don�t worry about the multiple threads�no problem.

A WW who is highly self-entitled, living-in-denial, & emotionally-addicted (as they almost always are) is a very tough nut to crack. Way tougher than most WH-situations. I firmly believe that MB-principles offer the best hope for those BSs who want to attempt R but, as I have written here many times before, there are substantial gender differences at play here. By the time you get to Plan B, a BH�s chances are far less than the a BW�s. It�s far less likely for a WW to end the affair unilaterally than a WH�a WW-affair in full swing usually ends ONLY if/when the OM does it. That�s why I advise exposure (to everyone of course) but especially to targets that may threaten something of importance to OM (usually his career or family/marriage). If exposure discomforts OM enough to make the affair �not worth the risk anymore�, he will probably dump WW and R becomes possible. If OM has little/nothing to lose or doesn�t care anyway, he will probably cling to WW (after all, he�s got a great deal going�someone �new� is feeding his ego and giving him plenty of sex). That affair will continue and the BH is stuck with Plan B vs. Plan D.

Plan B in this situation for the BH is a low-yield proposition IMHO. I advise BHs facing this to strongly consider taking the bull by the horns and filing (after letting everyone know that you are only doing this because WW will not give up the affair and reconcile). Let�s face it, usually the BH has far more to lose than the WW financially and family courts are flagrantly biased towards females (they don�t care about her rampant cheating and deceit). Hiring an aggressive and experienced �men�s/father�s rights� attorney will probably get the BH the best deal he can reasonably get and at least allows him to be strong and feel like he is taking control of his life. Occasionally, the BH putting his foot down, �man-ing up�, and serving her with divorce papers will shock the WW into looking realistically at the destruction she is bringing upon her marriage and family. Sometimes, the WW will realize what she�s doing and turn away from OM quickly. You shouldn�t do Plan D expecting this (as it likely won�t happen); you should only do it because you mean it, not as a bargaining chip.

I know what you feel in struggling with what you want. You want her the way she WAS�she is currently far, far beneath the woman she used to be in your nostalgic memory. Unfortunately, what you want in ideal terms (an intact family with a REAL wife), is not what she is willing to do in actual practice�as she has clearly shown by refusing to end the affair, breaking NC, trying to stay at home playing disingenuous �good mommy�, etc.

I am so sorry, Ark, but especially since this is her 2nd (known) affair, I would lean heavily to Plan D. She is not a worthy wife or partner anymore...she�s gone morally & ethically.

Ark, I understand how you feel totally- My H is also in his 2nd A, gone for 7 months and super-entitled. As SDCW nicely said....these WS are moraly and ethically gone. The people we married are no longer there.
I was talking to my 97 year old grandma today about what my H did etc.. She said that breaking a family and committing adultery is a disgrace that will always follow my H like a black cloud. She is religious so she said that god will not let him die till he learned a sound lesson about what he did and the cruel way he chose to do it. She said that the worse thing for a person is to be empty and have no feelings. She believes my WH has not feelings for anyone not even for himself.
She added, I might be dead when god's teachings reach your H but they will one day for sure..if not already.
I guess she is wise
blessing

Yes they will have it follow them like a black cloud...It will always be their legacy, unless they fix it....it will be passed down to generations that these WS's abandoned their families for OP...right now they dont care about that or they dont believe that its really gonna happen....but they will not have integrity with their family, thats for sure...maybe it will show future generations what a painful thing it is to do this to your family and they will not follow that path...

When a society loses its integrity and its morals the first thing to go is the family unit. This has been happening in the states for years now and it started to happen here in Italy for about 20 years now. It is rampant here now. I was talking to a friend and she said she knows more people who are separated or divorced than people who are in a M.
She also said that cheating is rampant. In the office building where she works they do it in the bathroom and the other day the toiled floaded and the plummers found an enormous amount of condoms stuck in the piping! She said it was revolting.
I truly do not know what to think. It is sad as childres suffer from this. I spoke to my son yesterday and I could hear the pain and sadness in his voice!
blessing

I agree about the sad demise of the family. We need to wake up or suffer God's wrath.

Do waywards file? Yes. Mine did after a year of back and forth false recovery attempts. He, too, waited until after the holidays -- two days after Christmas then walked out on me and our kids. He moved directly into OW's house and filed in a month. My guess is that OW said she'd give him 30 days or else. He was VERY adament about filing, even tracking down his Dad at our daughter's basketball game to hand over the papers in the parking lot.

Nice -- I'm watching the game -- like I should -- and he's destroying our family in the parking lot.

Then he did nothing except file financial papers and wait for a court date. I hired an attorney to deal with the court date. Only THEN did WH hire his attorney.

See -- he FILED to please OW. He didn't pursue it wanting me to do all the work.

It's been 16 months since he filed. He's failed to provide papers under discovery. He switched attorneys. He doesn't show up in court. He's violated many court orders. He's trying to dodge and drag this thing out because he doesn't want all his financial misdoings to show up. But they will -- eventually.

Will he see this thing through? Absolutely. Otherwise OW will kick him out on his ear. She's "passionate" and psycho and would be way more MEAN should he change his mind.

And you asked if he's suffered any consequences? He was recently fired from his job. He's lost his family. His in debt well over $200K. BUT I doubt he sees it as suffering since he's still in the entitlement, greed, "I'm a teenager again" mode. He parties and plays and goes out of his way to live to the extreme.

Now the black cloud is about to overshadow his world when we go before a judge in two weeks.

Should I have filed first? Probably since I could have closed some joint accounts and stopped some of the debt. However, I have to live with myself so I let him file so I could never say that I had a part in destroying my family via the divorce. I now realize that he had already destroyed it and my waiting may or may not pay off in the long run.

Also, I was a basketcase the year following d-day. I was too emotional to deal with a divorce. Plan B has helped me put things in prespective. I've used that time to gather my army, stock my warchest, and prepare for battle. Because it is war. Divorce is ugly!

My hope is that I gave him enough rope to hang himself and now it's time to pay the piper. Providing he gets another job since his reputation is such that that isn't guaranteed.

Grandmother is a wise woman. These waywards will eventually have to deal with their consequences but not before suffering great hardships.

Pride comes before the fall.

My WH has threated divorce many times before and after D-day (but never pre-A, how interesting). He has also promised to end his A and come home many times since D-Day. I can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Regarding the divorce issue specifically, I have often wondered whether he would prefer that I file so he can feel good about the fact that he did not file, even though my sole reason for filing would be his A and his refusal to end it and recommit our family. I think he would love say BW filed for divorce and then make up his own reason why (such as because he works too much as he once told me he would tell people).

I actually did an informal poll of people who knew people involved in As to gauge the likelihood that my WH would file. In almost all the cases, the wayward was the man and the BS did the filing after a considerable length of time. Most said they just got tired of the situation and decided to take action.

My sister filed after XBIL was caught multiple times with OW. And, of course, BIL blamed HER for filing -- still does.

And 3 years post divorce, he's still with OW although they are not married. Sister is getting ready to get engaged. XBIL still has no relationship with their DD.

Fred_in_VA said ..."However, when we talked about who would/could file (it's a "no-fault" state with no children) she seemed to think it should be me who filed. Yes, I think this supports her contention that I "fell out of love" with her, which justified her having the affair."


You hit the nail on the head in my relationship with WH. It wasn't that he fell out of love with me. He insists that I stopped loving him years ago and that he had to work so hard to try to accept that I didn't love him anymore. That's why he was "allowed" to have an affair. He actually told me, "I didn't think I was taking anything away from our marriage since you don't even like me."

I told him just last week that he could file for divorce, that I wasn't going to do all the work. He won't for the very reason that Fred stated above. My WH wants to be a victim in all this. If he files for D it means he's the bad guy. I'm guessing he's told the OW that I'm the one who's holding it up.

Yes, Yes, Yes...I definitely think they tell OP that BS is holding up the divorce process....I was thinking that when I file for divorce (because its obviously not gonna be him) I really want to call OW to let her know that WH is free and clear, I am sure he wouldnt appreciate that.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting in my case. Yesterday, with WW in the audience, I told a crowd of people that I had filed. So if she hadn't already checked her mail, she got it firsthand!

OM has been separated from his wife for over three years. Early on in their adulterous relationship I found a message from him to her saying it was going to be May.

Guess what? It's May.

Soon she's going to find herself divorced and on the outside of TWO relationships. I wonder how long he'll be able to string her along before she gets wise that he's not going to marry her...

So, he gave the papers to his Dad to give to you?

XWH gave the papers *to our then 20-year-old son* to hand to me. I did not know they were coming. He had son brainwashed into thinking he could "help to make this easier". I put an immediate screeching halt to any such thinking, told DS that he was NOT the messenger boy in this mess and never would be, and fired off a letter to WH's attorney telling her what he had done to DS and insisting that a process server be used to deliver the divorce papers and that he had better not ever DARE to us DS20 in such a manner ever again.

It's just complete insanity. WH had gotten into his head that expecting his son to hand divorce papers *to his own mother* was a good idea. That's the behaviour of a delusional coward, not of the honorable man he once was before his roaring addiction to attention, admiration and girls started him down the road which would end with him using his own son like this.

But this was all worth it because XWH is "happy". All of this was done so he could be "happy". So he must be VERY VERY "happy" now. Right?

Add this one to the "They All Say That" thread.

I know he's told people that "Mulan just couldn't handle my job, because I was gone so much and had to travel. She was just too weak and unstable."

Actually, Mulan handled his job and "being gone so much" just fine for a long time. *Too* fine. I never questioned it or complained about it - didn't want to be a b*tch or high maintenance or anything, you know - so I would write novels and keep busy with the house and our two children while he was gone.

This did not bring any consideration in return from him. It just allowed him to run hog-wild and completely unchecked.

Then, when I did finally realize what he was doing - it was girls girls girls at every available moment, treating the workplace like a wh*rehouse and dating service and behaving on the trips like a college boy on spring break - it was way too late. He was so entrenched in his addiction to attention and admiration and cheap girls that there was no way he'd ever stop. And he didn't.

No, it wasn't "he works too much" that killed our marriage. It was spending too much time with the GIRLS at work that killed our marriage.

He's just one of countless men who have destroyed their families this way and there are countless more to come.

Right! It's all done in the name of happiness... THEIRS only -- screw everyone else!

As for telling OW he's holding up the D? I did it recently. Sent her a text. Basically, we're on the same page. We need to get this D done ASAP. You could really help by making sure WH brings the credit card statements to court on Thursday. The judge requested these months ago. And we can't come to a settlement until these are provided.

She immediately forwarded it to WH who forwarded it to his attorney. The attorney responds --What is all this talk about the credit card statements? Does your old attorney have them? HH's attorney keeps talking about these too. Make sure you get them so we can use a forensic accountant to determine what is communal debt and what's personal debt.

LOVE IT. Even his own attorney realizes that his affair debt -- a HUGE amount on the credit card -- matters.

And OW? I just wanted her to know that WH is holding up the D by not providing all the needed info.

And how did I come by this intell? Via his email account. He still uses it with his iPhone to transmit emails and photos. He KNOWS I know the password. And after being gone so long, it puzzles me how he doesn't just get a new one so I can't see his correspondences with OW, potential employers, Vegas hotel confirmations, his attorney, etc.

God is definitely helping me here. So is WH and his stupidity.