Dont take this the wrong way Mulan, I know what you are goin thru all too well....but I think you are lucky to get rid of him, really...He sounds like a real entitled a$$...Hope you are doin okay now.

Hope, Mulan and the others whose WH filed for divorce...did these WH actually self destruct at some point or are they still with OW having fun?
Just curious..

blessing

Mine filed for D.

My WH moved out and within a week filed for legal separation. That left me in a position where I had to respond and I KNOW he thought I would respond with D. (which I initially did, then rescended it). I believe that he wanted me to file for D so then he could say, "I only wanted a separation to 'think about things', she's the one that filed for D".

Of course, a couple weeks after I rescended my request for D, he turned around and filed.

Yeah, I know what you mean - I went into "Plan B" when he left and have 100% cut off all contact. That way, at the very least I don't have him rubbing his girlfriends in my face anymore and he has never been able to rub his divorce in my face.

The trouble is - he was a wonderful husband and father for about 10-12 years, before he started working for his Big Corporation and started acting like a crackhead in a crackhouse who kept going to work in the crackhouse every single day. Only in his case, it wasn't crack - it was girls.

I still miss the man he was, terribly. I miss having a husband and being part of a couple. I miss having my family intact. But I couldn't stomach his girlfriends, not even to have my family back again. He thought I would cave, if he just held out long enough.

That didn't happen. So he left. His addiction was far stronger - it always is.

He is like a textbook case for addiction of any kind with the lies (to protect the fix), the escalation (because it takes more and more of the fix to get an effect), and the massive selfishness to the point of destroying one's own family (because families get in the way of the fix).

It's just sad and stupid and it will never be okay. But nobody can stop an addict except the addict himself, and that only happens if/when they hit bottom. XWH will never hit bottom as long as he has a corporate job someplace, and he'll always have that.

I told him once that in the end, I would have nothing for him but pity. And I don't. I really don't.

I know what you mean, I terribly miss my old H. It is very very hard...but there are alot of us here who can Identify with you, me included....It just su@ks and there is nothin we can do about it. At least they are happy, right?..Yeah, right...Jerks!

Hi atena,
My XWH didn't have just one OW - he 100% fits the definition of a sex addict and is a bottomless pit for female attention of every kind, from waitresses to his own corporate female employees to strippers to every other female he he can pay/bribe/manipulate to do what he wants.

So, he'll never run out of supply to have fun with.

Is he happy? I assume so. I have not seen him or spoken to him in close to two years. Last I heard (accidentally, from dealing with insurance and legal hassles due to the divorce) he's still in town and apparently bought a house, but that's it.

He used to be extremely close to DS22, who still shares the family home with me. I never ask DS if/when he's spending time with his father, but I do know when the kid is here, or at work, or at school, or whatever - and there seems to be very little time when he could be seeing Dad.

This surprises me. As I said, they were always very close and I have not interfered with their relationship in any way, so both are entirely free to see each other whenever they want.

But hey, single guys don't like having the kids around when the girls are coming over to Girl Central. People who betray their spouses betray their children, too, and don't ever let them tell you they don't. And that betrayal sure doesn't stop with divorce.

Is XWH happy now? I don't know. I can only assume so, since he said that "moving on" would make him happy.

I warned DS22 not to be surprised if his father got married again. He absolutely wanted both a wife *and* girlfriends - he just loved that lifestyle until of course it all came crashing down - and if he finds some doormat female that he thinks will put up with it in return for his money (unlike his last wife, who was just so crazy and controlling and couldn't see the great offer he was making) - no, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he got married again.

And boy, it would be everything he deserves.

Ark,

Don�t worry about the multiple threads�no problem.

A WW who is highly self-entitled, living-in-denial, & emotionally-addicted (as they almost always are) is a very tough nut to crack. Way tougher than most WH-situations. I firmly believe that MB-principles offer the best hope for those BSs who want to attempt R but, as I have written here many times before, there are substantial gender differences at play here. By the time you get to Plan B, a BH�s chances are far less than the a BW�s. It�s far less likely for a WW to end the affair unilaterally than a WH�a WW-affair in full swing usually ends ONLY if/when the OM does it. That�s why I advise exposure (to everyone of course) but especially to targets that may threaten something of importance to OM (usually his career or family/marriage). If exposure discomforts OM enough to make the affair �not worth the risk anymore�, he will probably dump WW and R becomes possible. If OM has little/nothing to lose or doesn�t care anyway, he will probably cling to WW (after all, he�s got a great deal going�someone �new� is feeding his ego and giving him plenty of sex). That affair will continue and the BH is stuck with Plan B vs. Plan D.

Plan B in this situation for the BH is a low-yield proposition IMHO. I advise BHs facing this to strongly consider taking the bull by the horns and filing (after letting everyone know that you are only doing this because WW will not give up the affair and reconcile). Let�s face it, usually the BH has far more to lose than the WW financially and family courts are flagrantly biased towards females (they don�t care about her rampant cheating and deceit). Hiring an aggressive and experienced �men�s/father�s rights� attorney will probably get the BH the best deal he can reasonably get and at least allows him to be strong and feel like he is taking control of his life. Occasionally, the BH putting his foot down, �man-ing up�, and serving her with divorce papers will shock the WW into looking realistically at the destruction she is bringing upon her marriage and family. Sometimes, the WW will realize what she�s doing and turn away from OM quickly. You shouldn�t do Plan D expecting this (as it likely won�t happen); you should only do it because you mean it, not as a bargaining chip.

I know what you feel in struggling with what you want. You want her the way she WAS�she is currently far, far beneath the woman she used to be in your nostalgic memory. Unfortunately, what you want in ideal terms (an intact family with a REAL wife), is not what she is willing to do in actual practice�as she has clearly shown by refusing to end the affair, breaking NC, trying to stay at home playing disingenuous �good mommy�, etc.

I am so sorry, Ark, but especially since this is her 2nd (known) affair, I would lean heavily to Plan D. She is not a worthy wife or partner anymore...she�s gone morally & ethically.

Ark, I understand how you feel totally- My H is also in his 2nd A, gone for 7 months and super-entitled. As SDCW nicely said....these WS are moraly and ethically gone. The people we married are no longer there.
I was talking to my 97 year old grandma today about what my H did etc.. She said that breaking a family and committing adultery is a disgrace that will always follow my H like a black cloud. She is religious so she said that god will not let him die till he learned a sound lesson about what he did and the cruel way he chose to do it. She said that the worse thing for a person is to be empty and have no feelings. She believes my WH has not feelings for anyone not even for himself.
She added, I might be dead when god's teachings reach your H but they will one day for sure..if not already.
I guess she is wise
blessing

Yes they will have it follow them like a black cloud...It will always be their legacy, unless they fix it....it will be passed down to generations that these WS's abandoned their families for OP...right now they dont care about that or they dont believe that its really gonna happen....but they will not have integrity with their family, thats for sure...maybe it will show future generations what a painful thing it is to do this to your family and they will not follow that path...

When a society loses its integrity and its morals the first thing to go is the family unit. This has been happening in the states for years now and it started to happen here in Italy for about 20 years now. It is rampant here now. I was talking to a friend and she said she knows more people who are separated or divorced than people who are in a M.
She also said that cheating is rampant. In the office building where she works they do it in the bathroom and the other day the toiled floaded and the plummers found an enormous amount of condoms stuck in the piping! She said it was revolting.
I truly do not know what to think. It is sad as childres suffer from this. I spoke to my son yesterday and I could hear the pain and sadness in his voice!
blessing

I agree about the sad demise of the family. We need to wake up or suffer God's wrath.

Do waywards file? Yes. Mine did after a year of back and forth false recovery attempts. He, too, waited until after the holidays -- two days after Christmas then walked out on me and our kids. He moved directly into OW's house and filed in a month. My guess is that OW said she'd give him 30 days or else. He was VERY adament about filing, even tracking down his Dad at our daughter's basketball game to hand over the papers in the parking lot.

Nice -- I'm watching the game -- like I should -- and he's destroying our family in the parking lot.

Then he did nothing except file financial papers and wait for a court date. I hired an attorney to deal with the court date. Only THEN did WH hire his attorney.

See -- he FILED to please OW. He didn't pursue it wanting me to do all the work.

It's been 16 months since he filed. He's failed to provide papers under discovery. He switched attorneys. He doesn't show up in court. He's violated many court orders. He's trying to dodge and drag this thing out because he doesn't want all his financial misdoings to show up. But they will -- eventually.

Will he see this thing through? Absolutely. Otherwise OW will kick him out on his ear. She's "passionate" and psycho and would be way more MEAN should he change his mind.

And you asked if he's suffered any consequences? He was recently fired from his job. He's lost his family. His in debt well over $200K. BUT I doubt he sees it as suffering since he's still in the entitlement, greed, "I'm a teenager again" mode. He parties and plays and goes out of his way to live to the extreme.

Now the black cloud is about to overshadow his world when we go before a judge in two weeks.

Should I have filed first? Probably since I could have closed some joint accounts and stopped some of the debt. However, I have to live with myself so I let him file so I could never say that I had a part in destroying my family via the divorce. I now realize that he had already destroyed it and my waiting may or may not pay off in the long run.

Also, I was a basketcase the year following d-day. I was too emotional to deal with a divorce. Plan B has helped me put things in prespective. I've used that time to gather my army, stock my warchest, and prepare for battle. Because it is war. Divorce is ugly!

My hope is that I gave him enough rope to hang himself and now it's time to pay the piper. Providing he gets another job since his reputation is such that that isn't guaranteed.

Grandmother is a wise woman. These waywards will eventually have to deal with their consequences but not before suffering great hardships.

Pride comes before the fall.

My WH has threated divorce many times before and after D-day (but never pre-A, how interesting). He has also promised to end his A and come home many times since D-Day. I can't believe a word that comes out of his mouth.

Regarding the divorce issue specifically, I have often wondered whether he would prefer that I file so he can feel good about the fact that he did not file, even though my sole reason for filing would be his A and his refusal to end it and recommit our family. I think he would love say BW filed for divorce and then make up his own reason why (such as because he works too much as he once told me he would tell people).

I actually did an informal poll of people who knew people involved in As to gauge the likelihood that my WH would file. In almost all the cases, the wayward was the man and the BS did the filing after a considerable length of time. Most said they just got tired of the situation and decided to take action.

My sister filed after XBIL was caught multiple times with OW. And, of course, BIL blamed HER for filing -- still does.

And 3 years post divorce, he's still with OW although they are not married. Sister is getting ready to get engaged. XBIL still has no relationship with their DD.

Fred_in_VA said ..."However, when we talked about who would/could file (it's a "no-fault" state with no children) she seemed to think it should be me who filed. Yes, I think this supports her contention that I "fell out of love" with her, which justified her having the affair."


You hit the nail on the head in my relationship with WH. It wasn't that he fell out of love with me. He insists that I stopped loving him years ago and that he had to work so hard to try to accept that I didn't love him anymore. That's why he was "allowed" to have an affair. He actually told me, "I didn't think I was taking anything away from our marriage since you don't even like me."

I told him just last week that he could file for divorce, that I wasn't going to do all the work. He won't for the very reason that Fred stated above. My WH wants to be a victim in all this. If he files for D it means he's the bad guy. I'm guessing he's told the OW that I'm the one who's holding it up.

Yes, Yes, Yes...I definitely think they tell OP that BS is holding up the divorce process....I was thinking that when I file for divorce (because its obviously not gonna be him) I really want to call OW to let her know that WH is free and clear, I am sure he wouldnt appreciate that.

Yeah, it's gonna be interesting in my case. Yesterday, with WW in the audience, I told a crowd of people that I had filed. So if she hadn't already checked her mail, she got it firsthand!

OM has been separated from his wife for over three years. Early on in their adulterous relationship I found a message from him to her saying it was going to be May.

Guess what? It's May.

Soon she's going to find herself divorced and on the outside of TWO relationships. I wonder how long he'll be able to string her along before she gets wise that he's not going to marry her...

So, he gave the papers to his Dad to give to you?

XWH gave the papers *to our then 20-year-old son* to hand to me. I did not know they were coming. He had son brainwashed into thinking he could "help to make this easier". I put an immediate screeching halt to any such thinking, told DS that he was NOT the messenger boy in this mess and never would be, and fired off a letter to WH's attorney telling her what he had done to DS and insisting that a process server be used to deliver the divorce papers and that he had better not ever DARE to us DS20 in such a manner ever again.

It's just complete insanity. WH had gotten into his head that expecting his son to hand divorce papers *to his own mother* was a good idea. That's the behaviour of a delusional coward, not of the honorable man he once was before his roaring addiction to attention, admiration and girls started him down the road which would end with him using his own son like this.

But this was all worth it because XWH is "happy". All of this was done so he could be "happy". So he must be VERY VERY "happy" now. Right?

Add this one to the "They All Say That" thread.

I know he's told people that "Mulan just couldn't handle my job, because I was gone so much and had to travel. She was just too weak and unstable."

Actually, Mulan handled his job and "being gone so much" just fine for a long time. *Too* fine. I never questioned it or complained about it - didn't want to be a b*tch or high maintenance or anything, you know - so I would write novels and keep busy with the house and our two children while he was gone.

This did not bring any consideration in return from him. It just allowed him to run hog-wild and completely unchecked.

Then, when I did finally realize what he was doing - it was girls girls girls at every available moment, treating the workplace like a wh*rehouse and dating service and behaving on the trips like a college boy on spring break - it was way too late. He was so entrenched in his addiction to attention and admiration and cheap girls that there was no way he'd ever stop. And he didn't.

No, it wasn't "he works too much" that killed our marriage. It was spending too much time with the GIRLS at work that killed our marriage.

He's just one of countless men who have destroyed their families this way and there are countless more to come.

Right! It's all done in the name of happiness... THEIRS only -- screw everyone else!

As for telling OW he's holding up the D? I did it recently. Sent her a text. Basically, we're on the same page. We need to get this D done ASAP. You could really help by making sure WH brings the credit card statements to court on Thursday. The judge requested these months ago. And we can't come to a settlement until these are provided.

She immediately forwarded it to WH who forwarded it to his attorney. The attorney responds --What is all this talk about the credit card statements? Does your old attorney have them? HH's attorney keeps talking about these too. Make sure you get them so we can use a forensic accountant to determine what is communal debt and what's personal debt.

LOVE IT. Even his own attorney realizes that his affair debt -- a HUGE amount on the credit card -- matters.

And OW? I just wanted her to know that WH is holding up the D by not providing all the needed info.

And how did I come by this intell? Via his email account. He still uses it with his iPhone to transmit emails and photos. He KNOWS I know the password. And after being gone so long, it puzzles me how he doesn't just get a new one so I can't see his correspondences with OW, potential employers, Vegas hotel confirmations, his attorney, etc.

God is definitely helping me here. So is WH and his stupidity.