Every day on MB, there are new posts from newly betrayed spouses - and so, so many of them contain the line, "They Work Together."

It seems to be accepted conventional wisdom that workplaces do not condone adultery and indeed, will do whatever they can to put a stop to it.

This is a HUGE misconception and every BS here has got to understand this. You can and should expose to the workplace when busting up the affair, but do not get the idea that the workplace will be shocked and horrified. Most likely, they won't give a rat's butt and here's why:

There is one reason and one reason only why a workplace - especially a large corporate-type office in a campus-like setting - will do anything at all to stop the employees from cheating with each other:

If it keeps them from making money.

As long as it's not affecting the bottom line, and the adultery partners aren't Doing It in front of everyone on the executive conference table, and it's not affecting the bottom line (did I mention that?), NOBODY in authority cares about co-workers getting involved in adulterous relationships. NOBODY.

Why not? Doesn't it make the company look bad?

Well, look again.

These places are locked up tighter than Fort Knox. You most likely have to drive through a security checkpoint where your name and license number will be taken. Then you have to walk up to a desk and sign in and show ID.

Is this to keep Bad People out, who might spy on the company or shoot up the place because they don't like the product or something?

No. 90% of this is to keep spouses from just dropping in. Spouses spoil all the fun and destroy the culture (more on that later).

Besides, in most cases who's shooting up these places anyway? It's spouses enraged by the well-protected adultery going on inside. Look it up.

Here's the real bottom line. Nobody can make money for their company if they're home with the spouse and kids. They can only make money for the company if they're in the workplace and/or traveling on the road.

So, how do we keep employees happy to spend 12-14 hour days in the workplace and happy to stay on the road for days or weeks at a time, month after month after month?

Well, you could pay them a whole lot more, but that gets pricey after a while.

You could do what places like Google and Microsoft and Apple do, and build loads of recreational areas in the workplace that the employees can all use for free. But that's expensive, too.

Or you could do the cheapest possible thing to keep your employees at work and on the road: Build a corporate culture that resembles high school and let the employees date each other.

Now, nobody knows this, but I also worked at the same corporation as XWH. I worked there for over eight years and about the last half of it was spent working on the other side of the same floor that he was on.

This made no difference whatsoever. He was in management and I was not, so that was his excuse for ignoring me as much as possible and cutting me out of his life while I was at work. My being there didn't hinder him and his workplace girlfriends at all. After all, he had HIRED most of them, so of course they were always around!

As I learned later, XWH and the girls quickly learned to avoid me by leaving through doors I wouldn't see, waiting until I was at lunch alone in the breakroom to head out for their own private off-site 2-3 hour lunches, etc.

So just being there made no difference at all. And I realize how stupidly blind I sound in the paragraphs above, but you have to understand that this was a man who had been entirely trustworthy and very good to me until he started working in the crackhouse that is Corporate America. He earned my trust and then spent it for as long as he could. That's how he got away with his cheating for so long.

Anyway: It is 100% in the company's best interest to keep the employees at work/on the road as much as it possibly can.

Creating a high-school environment where everybody is single and the employees are free to date each other is the cheapest and most effective way to do that.

Of course, they don't call it "dating". They call it some bullcrap name like "Teambuilding". All the employees are encouraged to "Team Build" with each other by "getting to know each other personally, as people and not just as co-workers."

(I'm not kidding about this. I wish I was.)

You can "Team Build" by going to lunch together, going to off-site company functions and awards banquets together (NO SPOUSES ALLOWED EVER - WE'RE WORKING HERE) and, of course, traveling together.

XWH was the very best "Team Builder" ever. Of course, as I know now, he only did "Teambuilding" with the hot flirty chicks, but hey, it sure kept him at work for very long hours and happy to go on the road any time for his Company.

One of his first snarling arguments to me, when I finally confronted him about this stuff, was, "I make Big Money for that Company!!!!"

Exactly.

My point (and I do have one) is this:

Corporate culture has nothing to gain by being supportive of any employee's family. So they're not.

It has everything to gain by ignoring families and encouraging the employees to spend their time with each other instead, both in the workplace and on the road. So they encourage this to the max.

Beware, beware, beware of any company, large or small, that does any of the following:

1) Strongly discourages spouses from dropping in at the workplace by making it a real hassle to do so.

2) Has any such garbage like "Teambuilding".

3) Does not allow, or strongly discourages, spouses from attending things like company conferences, awards banquets, off-site lunches or dinners for an employee's promotion or birthday, off-site lunches or dinners to entertain a visiting boss from another office, etc. etc. etc.

4) Plans lots of off-site "reward" outings for groups of employees but keeps the location a "surprise" until the last minute. That way, no spouses could show up and spoil the fun.

5) Says stuff like, "We're all one big family here!" (I really hate that one.)

There are plenty more and I hope other posters here will add to this list.

I know a lot of you will not believe me on this. But I lived through this and witnessed it first hand, and now I am living every day with the destruction it caused my family.

It's true that it was entirely XWH's doing to destroy our family - I just want to let people know, especially the new ones here dealing with a workplace affair, just how bad it really is in these places and that the workplace will NOT help you get your family back. That's because it's not going to make them any money for them if you have your family back. It only makes money for them if your WS ignores his real family and treats the workplace like family instead.

Please, please, please be very careful. If you've never seen this culture first hand, it will make your jaw drop. To those who are naive and gullible and have poor boundaries to start with, it's like walking into a crackhouse every day.

Ever see the movie *Wall Street*? Charlie Sheen's character gets sucked in by the money and the sex and nearly loses everything. "They're using you, kid, but you're too blind to see it." In the movie, he finally does see it, but in the real world too many of them never do.

Please be very careful if your spouse works in any sort of insulated place like this. These places have no reason at all to care about your family - and they don't.

Mulan,

I am so sorry for your pain. My WH had all of his A's with coworkers. It wasn't the family atmosphere, it was the lets go out and party atmosphere. His most recent LTA was with a co-worker and the team/group he worked in had many A's going on so it was not only condoned but encouraged.

Unfortunatly, I didn't have MB while he still worked there. However, I suspect mgmt wouldn't have done anything. He also worked for a very large corporation.

Did you have any alleys at work against the A's? I see other BS's here who had co-workers supporting them and not the WS's, I hope that you had that while you worked there.

Sounds like it was a big secretive game. Now that your XWH isn't married, it probably lost a lot of the fantasy as it is out in the open. Really, your XWH is to be pitied for all that he lost, and prayed for as it looks like he may not be going to such a nice place in the after life!

ba

WOW. Reading this makes me KNOW that you are so right. The workplace was my BEST exposure target and it did NOTHING. I sent 2 letters with no response and then called them. I talked to someone at my WHs office and was pretty much told that they would not discuss anything with me. It was only when I mentioned a possible sexual harassment suit that they even mentioned it to WH(I only know this because he called me and said "My work has told you to stop emailing and calling them." I had NEVER emailed and only called once.). Co-workers of WH and POSOW have been giving my WH problems for 2 years and I was actually called by one to tell me about POSOW. The people who were thought to have been the ones who called me were told they could be fired for it. There is a confidentiality arrangement that they CAN NOT discuss what happens inside the office with ANYONE. WTH?

Yes, it is an office. It is a call center. They say that they have to keep all of the customer info protected. They LIE.

While i agree that all of this is true.

The sad thing to me is that even in my h's work place affair it was not "corporate america" he worked for a small compnay and he later told me that the FOW told all of their co-workers that they were "an item" and not one of them called me to let me know.

What kind of a society do we live in today that every single person in that office thought nothing about it happening or letting me know about it happening? It sickens me

My wife works for the YMCA (the C stands for Christian). I am not sure why.

My wife had an affair with a fireman then her coworker had another affair with another fireman then my wife had an affair with another person from out of town. The YMCA funded the emails, long distance calls, work time, etc to sustain these affairs.

2 directors there are married in an OPEN marriage. Another cheated on her husband.

Their motto is building strong families through Christian principles. I think not. My wife and her friend destroyed 5 families with their adultery and they still work there because their boss likes them.

Thanks - I'm doing okay. MB helps me give a little something back to people who might have the wrong idea about so many workplaces, as I did.


Oh, yes. That comes under the heading of "Teambuilding".


Of course. As I said, anything that keeps the employees in the workplace / on the road is good for the company. You couldn't have a bigger conflict of interest.


People who knew me directly - my own co-workers - were my friends, but they did not work with XWH (as I said, he was Big Management and we were not) so they did not really know what he was doing any more than I did.

People who only knew me through XWH - his own co-workers - got the clear message from him that I didn't exist and therefore must deserve to be ignored. Just like one of Tiger Woods's hos said about Tiger's wife: "Well, he never mentioned her, so I didn't either."


Yeah, I do have to wonder about that, but I don't know as I have no contact with him at all.



I told him once that in the end, I would have nothing for him but pity. And I don't. The man threw away a wife and two children who loved him, and look what he threw them away for - an OFFICE full of gold-digging skanks and sycophantic friends who sat there and watched him lose it all.

But hey, he's still got all of them.

When absolutes are obliterated from a society, then it comes as no surprise that this happens. I have perspective from the other side. I cheated on my H with a fellow teacher. Teaching is a pretty intimate profession, sometimes an "us against the world" atmosphere. When I told my principal about my A after D-Day, she didn't really want to hear it. I had a couple of coworkers who said they suspected, but they never said anything (to me). I wish they had.

I still think exposing to the workplace is a smart move, but I think we are past the days where most people are going to do something significant about it. I mean, the recent leader of the free world cheated on his wife and lied about it. But I cannot count the number of people who said, "But that is his personal life. It won't affect his ability to be a good president." So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

This is ABSOLUTELY true. So many times I have read as vets here have advised BS's to expose to the workplace and thought "wow, i hope that helps them" but known in my heart it would probably have little effect. Exposure to OPS and family . . . . priceless. Exposure to workplace . . . good luck. I can tell you that A's are the norm in pretty much every place I have worked from University to Industry. It is sickening but a fact of life. All the mroe reason that EP's are a must for all spouses, before an A takes place and after if one does. It took my OWN failure to comprehend the importance of EP's.

Another thing, since college I have worked in a male dominated environment (say 90% men vs. 10% women). Most of the men in positions of power have had A's (or still are). I often get the sense that the more of a womanizer a man is, the more the other men look up to him. I could be crazy but I have gotten that feeling before. Sick.

This is all so heartbreaking....its the breaking down of society as we know it...I swear that in the future marriage as we have known it will no longer exists, if it does at all....it already is so easy to get a divorce now, so the meaning has already disinegrated...adultery is already not as taboo...its just all so very sad to me...

Its like kids for the most part will live with their mothers and the then "man of the minute"...or with no father figure at all....the fathers will just wander as they please with the different "women" and without their own families. The family unit as we know it will be obselete. Its sickening, but thats what I see for the future.

I will say one thing about the man, at least we could still afford things when he was an office.

It was a running joke for a long time that we needed to give Bush some viagra and then maybe we could afford gas again.

Wow, bummer you guys. I'm sorry workplace exposure didn't work for you. Man, the second my H's A was exposed at work all he77 broke loose there. He was scared to death he was going to lose his job.

A full investigation took place, involving corporate headquarters and their attorneys from 5 states away. Heavy consultation with the local employment attorney, outside investigators - it blew us away.

To say my H's employers took exception to the A would be putting it mildly.

Aint that the truth...

It's not to say that ALL workplace A's would be swept under the rug. Where I work, if a manager had an affair with another person, they would be fired(it happened so I KNOW). I don't know what they would do to people who weren't managers though. That hasn't come up in my location(that I know of.)

maritalbliss,

I didn't think about your story when I was typing but then remembered after your post. It is so good that workplace exposure was so effective in your case. I guess it varies from place to place. I guess that is all the mrope reason that exposure should be done on a broad scale. Even if the workplace doesn't care, at least the BS tried and you never know til you try.

Mulan,
Great informative post.

As pointed out ethical Corporate America no longer exists. It is all about revenue, revenue, revenue.

My XWH too had an A with his direct report and I work here too.

I exposed to family and friends and did drag my feet for work because I was embarrassed and worried XWH would lose his career (I know now that was a flawed concept).

I exposed to the Manager on site about the affair. We are thousands miles away from headquarters and no HR on site.

He reported it and I waited and waited and waited. The HR person I might add is incompenent in her position. Manager asked if I had heard anything!

2 months later I put in a formal complaint with corporate headquarters to a Ethics committe program that cares of these type of issues.

I get a call when I am on vacation from an HR person who was not from our division saying that he called XWH and PP in for an interview as a favor for the incomponent HR person. He asked me the background and also provided my XWH business cell phone records of 258 phone calls in one month to PP on a holiday, all non work hours, weekends and midnight. The HR rep says i wish I talked to you first.

Waited for the karma bus, the lightening to strike them into the ground, both of them walked out of work and fired (which did happen about 2 years previous in another case).

What happened -- they were interviewed and signed papers saying that nothing inappropriate happened. deny deny deny. Since they became expert at hiding the A, they interviewed one person who had no clue. 2 months after signing these papers XWH moved into her house. XWH was removed from his manager position but did not lose any money. PP is still here, an unskilled worker who XWH hired from contractor to permanent employee while she worked for him. There were so many more qualified people but XWH wanted to give her a "break" because she promised she would go to college.

Never went to college, getting a great pay, got my XWH and now getting M in October and now trying to reestablish friendships at work and snub all of this in my face.

I have lost faith in my Corporation. We get all this information about ethics and it is a joke. I will continue to work here and hold my head up till I either retire or relocate when DD16 finishes high school.

There have been at least 3 other M that have broken up since I have been here (even though it was not with another co-worker) because of A.

It stinks.

I work in the legal field and workplace affairs are a big taboo and grounds for immediate termination, after an investigation confirms the affair-- that is unless you're a powerful rainmaker attorney. Then the lower level employee either resigns or is asked to resign with a nice (confidential) settlement. It's all very hush hush of course, but lawfirms are notorious gossip mills and word eventually gets out. At least they don't condone it!

Pm, that is the reason you should expose at the workplace anyway. Definitely these old boys clubs will close ranks and protect their own, but sooner or later the rumour mill leaks. Bad reputations are not good for business and DO affect the bottom line. Just ask Tiger Woods. If it is a very large and influential company, and there is/are records of previous complaints about adultery in the workplace, it could wreak havok on the company's public image.

Something I have to say about Tiger Woods, John Edwards and other recent highly publicized scandals is that the general public IS starting to see how adultery can ruin many lives. I've sensed far more of a general disgust with it lately than I did when it happened to me.

Something about exposure: exposure is most effective when it is to people who may be in a position to exert influence over the waywards. Think about exposure targets:

OP's spouse, both waywards' children, relatives, facebook friends, childhood buddies, college roommates, etc.

The point to exposure is to cast a harsh light on the A in the eyes of as many people as possible, hoping that enough are caught in the net who will put pressure on the waywards to end the A. There is no guarantee that exposing to these people will amount to a hill of beans. But it needs to be done anyway, so that conflict and pressure on the A can begin.

The workplace is just one more such place. We can't necessarily know for a fact how the employer will react, but it is to an entity/person that hopefully will cause conflict and pressure on the waywards.

I think it would be neglecting complete exposure simply for that reason.

ITA! It's just one of the many arrows to be shot during exposure.

I still think workplace exposure should be done, but when other areas of the morals cluases were thrown out, adultery was too in many cases. For example, as a tenured teacher, I could not be fired solely for adultery. One of the prices of open-minded progress :P

I suspect one reason exposure works is that even if the people who hear about the adultery don't want to exert pressure to stop it, now that they know about it many of the things they will do will exert natural pressure. Many of them will treat the wayward differently. Some will gossip. It all adds up to an environment more toxic to the affair, even if no official action is taken.

But I'm with Mulan; it looks like lots of workplaces would be happy to have you teambuild after hours with members of the opposite sex. I had to say no to a morale boosting program here not long ago because it wasn't gender segregated and was encouraging closer relationships.

If anything, this thread may help some BS's expose in the workplace by removing the fact that their WS will be fired. It really didn't bother me if WH got fired because the way I looked at it, it he ever came back, he would have to quit anyways.

Good point Scottie!

It is entirely within their interests to keep the outside world completely on the outside. That includes spouses. At many of these places, spouses simply do not exist and the companies and their employees behave accordingly. It's the height of disrespect, but it is very, very common.

I guess I was one of the lucky ones. Whatever lucky means these days. It sure doesn't mean what it used to!

My WH and the OW both are fired. They worked at a college and used state time and resources for the A. The OW took sexual photos in her office.

Still, when I exposed, she claimed harassment. Big time. Thought she would get him fired and go on. They both got fired. He got a settlement, she didn't.

I am ok with him not working there, because I would have insisted he quit anyway and now he has a settlement and unemployment. She also just got divorced by her BS, who is getting custody of their preschooler because of the OW's sexually explicit websites, etc.

So, I feel lucky that she is jobless, marriageless, and a cute little boy will be raised by his responsible daddy instead of her.

This is just sick. What is the world coming to?

Well, most everybody else in the office falls into one of these two categories:

1) They're in Management and therefore It's None of Their Concern. As long as the adulterous employees are still making money for the Company and not causing a problem *for the Company*, Management will look the other way and say they don't get involved in their employees' personal lives (except for dating them, of course.)

The real reason Management doesn't put a stop to it is because that would mess up the high school dating culture that is of so much benefit to the Company.

2) They are hourly employees who have no power at all.

If these hourly employees do have some kind of conscience and do object to adulterous behaviour in the workplace, they will be deemed Not A Team Player and be at the bottom of the list for promotions and perks. These employees either hold their noses and look the other way, or they leave and go to work somewhere else where it doesn't stink quite so bad.

If these hourly employees are of the same mindset as the cheaters, they will look for opportunities to do the same and be very happy with their choice of workplace so no problem there.

Rocking the boat takes a lot of courage. Now that all of us here at MB know what really happens to families when people engage in the harmless fun of a little cheating, maybe we can break that cycle of silence that protects those who abuse and destroy their own families.

Workplaces will be put on notice that spouses and ex-spouses will no longer be humiliated into protecting their nasty little secrets. Not for one more day.

Even churches are not immune from this problem. When any Organization - a corporation, a school, a church, the military - gets large enough to have its own identity and starts to benefit from employees ignoring their families to spend more time at The Organization, you are going to have this problem. The Organization has no reason whatsoever to be supportive of employee's families, so they aren't.

It's money that matters. And the more the employees ignore their own families and make The Organization their "real" family, the more money they can make for The Organization.

The more money they make for The Organization, the more they are rewarded by The Organization. While gee, for some reason their family is unhappy and complaining and isn't nearly as much fun as The Organization.

If an employee ends up divorced, hey, no problem. Now they can *really* devote themselves to The Organization! How wonderful that it was there when the employee needed them most . . .

You can't tell me these outfits don't know exactly what they're doing.

X2!

My career was spent with several large corporations, so I can only agree with everything you said.

When I had my own company I made SURE that spouses and family were invited to every event possible. They were invited to out-of-town events, too.

And don't even get me going about the Churches, especially the musical groups, perfectly setting the table for Affairs

I'm mad too, Mulan!

Wow, I was unaware of this.

I work for a fairly large international firm, but we are privately traded.

I have worked here for over a decade and to my knowledge there has never been an affair in my office. If there was, and it was reported, I assure you that H.R. would have there nose in it in a matter of days.

However, it seems this is a rarity.
Thats very sad.

The above post details why exposure is so necessary and how it works, no matter what the outcome. I can assure you that NOT EXPOSING is always way worse than giving exposure a shot. The initial line (emphasis mine) explains where exposure is most likely to be effective. Of course, a BS should always expose EVERYWHERE because he/she has no idea in advance who can/will �exert influence over the waywards� and who can�t/won�t.

With regard to the workplace (my xWW�s affair was in the work setting), its effectiveness depends on a few factors, like it does with every other potential target. If exposure threatens an affairee�s position, reputation, or career prospects, it will probably be helpful. If not, then probably not. If exposure results in social isolation/ostraciziation from colleagues/fellow co-workers, it will likely be helpful. If everyone already knows, is gossiping about �her & him�, and has already been duped by cover-stories, then likely it�s going to have little effect. As you can guess, in my situation the workplace was a den of iniquity in which the affair was widely known, accepted, and not frowned upon by the company�s owner (who was in fact an accomplice, at the very least).

The same scenarios apply to friends and family of the affairees. If nothing valued can be threatened, then all the BS is left with is the psychological pressure of the waywards �knowing that others know they have been exposed by their spouse(s)�. If they have pre-enacted their respective cover-stories, which often involve �the marriage(s) are ending/over anyway�, exposure is likely to be minimally effective.

This is why early and rapid info-gathering and nuclear exposure are best by far. Unfortunately, many BSs, myself included, �drink their WS�s Kool-Aid� for far too long and are intimidated out of exposing even after they know by the WS�s threats and misplaced/self-serving /faux �righteous indignation�.

Don't get me wrong - if your spouse is having a workplace affair, you absolutely MUST expose it to the workplace.

Just don't expect too much. They may work at a place that does object to such behaviour and one or both of the affairees may be fired. But most of the time, you can be sure that everybody in the workplace already knows about it and probably knew long before you did. In that case, exposure will have the effect of letting them know that You Know that They Know. That can take a lot of the fun out of it for everyone.

And we have to mention the dreaded Sexual Harassment Suit. You must understand: Sexual Harassment is only covered under UNWANTED attention. If the two of them have been seen happily leaving the building alone together and taking road trips together, and the company email shows their way way way too friendly messages to each other (and it will) then the attention was clearly NOT unwanted and there is NO grounds for a Sexual Harassment Suit.

Suing for Sexual Harassment is meant for girls who get hit on by loser guys in the office and want them to go away and have NEVER been interested in them.

And how do I know these things? At my XWH's company, do you know who was in charge is dealing with any Sexual Harassment Suits for a long time? HE WAS!!! How much sympathy do you think any Betrayed Spouse would get from him?

So, the point is: By all means DO expose to the workplace, but don't be afraid of causing trouble. They may very well ignore you, and even if there is trouble you did not cause it - the cheaters caused it with their actions.

It should be emphasized that workplace exposure is not a failure if they don't FIRE the affairees. Just putting them in a position to explain their unprofessional workplace behavior to their supervisors and the director of Human Resources is often enough to scare the affairees. The affairees then know that others are watching them and their reputation has been greatly diminished.

And when word gets out, the cheaters are treated like pariahs anyway. It ruins the affair at work because affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure ruins their fun. It is no fun to be bad when everyone is watching!

At my current and last company, we terminate workplace adulterers. At my last company they escorted a Vice President off the premises with an armed security guard.

I found out just this morning that one of sales reps is being fired at the end of the week for an affair with a female manager. She will be next in line, I am sure. Their reputations are ruined here. And in this business everyone knows everything. They will be ruined in this industry because hiring managers are loathe to hire liars and cheaters. And other companies will find out when they call employees and ask what happened. Just because HR won't tell doesn't mean the rest of us won't! Cheaters are loose cannons; about as unprofessional as you can get.

AT my last company, our Region VP was having an affair with a sales rep. I was a manager at the time. The VP and the sales rep flew up to my unit and he asked me to work with her for a day and evaluate her skills because he wanted to promote her. At dinner that night, they were awful flirty, I thought, but I just dismissed it.

Little did I realize that this VP was using ME to give him cover to promote this skankho. He asked me to write up an evaluation about my opinion about her suitability, which I did. He promoted her on that basis.

A few months later, this VP's wife called up every manager's phone in our office and told us her H was having an affair with that sales rep. All of us had a voice mail about the affair. One of us forwarded the vm to the Director of Human Resources in Chicago. He flew out the next day and fired them both.

This is a Fortune 500 company, btw. I work for a different Fortune 500 company today and we fire cheaters here too.

I haven't read much on here lately about the "Karma Bus." Here's a little tale that shows how the things we do today (expose) can work a ways down the road...

Following the guidance I received here, I went "full nuclear" on exposing WW and OM, including letters to his HR department with a cc: to Corporate Counsel.

I did not expect positive results. This is the same OM whose BW stormed into the office building during one of his earlier affairs and caused such a scene that she was escorted out of the building and banned from returning!

OM works for one of those "non-government organizations" that nevertheless require employees to hold clearances and such. Pretty secure work, if you can get it.

Two months ago it was announced that the entire company was moving its headquarters and operating facilities to another site, across town. Some employees would not be making the trip.

Guess who was one of them?

Now I can't prove that his behavior had anything to do with the company's choice to not include him in their future plans, but it comforts me to think that it did.

Bump.