Alright so I'll just start from square one and try to get all the details in.

bs 21
ww 20
married for 1 year 6 mos
no kids
own a house together
together for 4 years

My wife and I met 4 years ago she was 16 i was 17, we had everything in common while we were dating and did everything together and fell in love. We were together for about a year and a half before i left for boot camp. after i left we were seperated for about 6 months while i was in training, after training shed fly out and visit often and we surprisingly had a pretty good long distance relationship. We both knew we wanted to be together forever and the way the military works is your required to live in the dorms on base unless your married or have been in for atleast 3 years. Therefore we rushed into marriage, we both knew we wanted to get married but both of us agree we wish we would have waited.

over the past few months we have had some major problems, we stopped doing stuff together, started arguing about everything, then the affairs started. she started talking to alot of old guy friends and meeting new guys, theyd text back and fourth flirting and sending pics of eachother, when id confront her shed say they were just friends and get offensive and turn it on me saying i was crazy. well a couple months ago the fighting got worse and shed move out for a few days, then come back then after a week or 2 shed move back out, after almost every argument shed move out with "friends" well finally she ended up moving out for about 3 weeks. it wasnt until after i had found out she was living with another man. and within those 3 weeks she had slept with 3 other people and kissed countless, then i found a prepaid phone with her sending nude pics to about 6 other guys and having phone sex and cyber sex. it was alot all at once it was like she had just gone completely insane!

After that i kicked her out. she moved back in with her parents for about a month, then i allowed her to move back in with me to work on our marriage. We started seeing a MC and I had been on this website trying to use HNHN to bring her back to me. Our MC said that my WW felt inexpeirienced and wanted to act her age and by being married to me she felt that she was being controlled and locked down by me and was acting as a rebelous teenager would to her father.

My wife agreed to end everything with everyone and "grow up". We had a great week together doing all the activities we both enjoy together and i thought we were headed toward recovery.
well that lasted about a week. after a week she said that she felt like i was her father and she was grounded. And that she felt like she couldnt leave the house because she has no girlfriends because she doesnt get along with girls and only has guy friends and i would not allow her to hang out with guys. So I told her if she only has guy friends then id love to meet them and we could hang out as a group, she immediately got offensive and said she just wouldnt hang out with anyone at all and stay locked in the house and started going off about how she couldnt be her self if i was with them because i would get jealous. i assured her i would not get jealous unless she was doing something innapropriate, so she told me that i thought everything was innapropriate. Then she refused to go to counceling and moved out for 2 days

Bottom line im running out of energy and now i feel like im the father of a pissed off rebelous teenager. i pay all bills do all the cleaning cook dinner, she does not work or help with anything.

2 days ago i asked her what SHE wanted and she said she felt like it was too late and she felt our marriage was broken. So i asked her if she would move back in with her parents if i paid for it, she told me she liked this state and wanted to stay here. (at this point i just wanted her out of my house so i could move on) So i told her i would sign a paper giving her the right to act as if we were not married and that she would agree to a noncontested joint petition divorce. she signed the paper and instead of moving in with one of the OM like i thought shed do, shes been having the time of her life, over the weekend she went tubing with her "guy friends" then to the beach and then went bar hopping, she came home sunday morning only to shower and change then left all day again and came back at around midnight last night.

I still love her, and i dont want to live without her but its getting to the point where i just dont know what to do im tired of being so hurt all the time. this is not the girl i fell in love with. does anyone have any advice? is it too broken? if so what do i do? i cant just kick her out can i? i know i cant continue to live with her in the house if were not together, itll hurt too much having to see her on a day to day basis. I just wish shed grow up and be with ME again. I know ill get responses saying i have to figure out what I want first so Ill just prioritize it from what i want most to least.

1. i want to fight for her to come back to me.
2. i want her to move back to her home town.
3. i want her to just get out of my house and move in with OM

i know this post is long and more of a ramble than anything but any help would be amazing. thanks in advance

Hi Never-again, some of the MB vets will come here to help you.

Sorry you find yourself here. You appear to be a mature young man trying to do the right thing.

First and foremost stop financially fueling her A's. Does she work? She is using your home as a boarding house to come and go as she pleases because SHE CAN.

Don't pay for a thing while she is wayward.

WW felt inexperienced and wanted to act her age?? Acting your age is not sending out nude shots to 6 different men? Fire the MC, he is fueling her unacceptable behavior.

Read "surviving an A".

thank you hope, I have removed all extra features from her phone, she cannot text, send or recieve pic/video messages. and is limited to 450 mins per month. this was the lowest plan i could go without cancelling the bill completely. also right now i am BROKE myself i cant even afford to buy a pack of cigarettes, so im kinda using that to my advantage to quit and do alot of housework to keep busy, so she has not gotten any money from me, and she does not work, yet is still managing to go out and do stuff. so someone else is obviously paying for her. And i agree that her doing this is not "acting her age" but she thinks its normal for a 20 year old to "have fun" and being sleezy is apparently fun to her.

neveragain, I know we as BS do crazy things but this is one for the records. You gave her permssion to NOT BE MARRIED and now that she is following this signed paper you are upset. No more Mr Nice Guy. Read everything you can find on this site.

Waiting for some of the MBers to come on board.

1. Fire your marriage counselor.

2. Please, please, please, contact a lawyer and file for divorce ASAP. Trust me, you don't want to save this.

3. Do not, under any circumstances, move out of your home unless ordered to by the courts.

yes i know that was kind of crazy, for some reason i thought maybe shed either realize im fed up and come to her senses or at worst shed just move out with the OM and get out of my life. I dont know how to take control of a situation without being controlling, if that makes sense, im either too nice or too mean.

i agree to #1 and #3 completely. im still unsure if its worth saving or not yet

The facts are she is cake eating. You are paying her bills so she can run around. Whats there not to love? Of course the dudes she is hanging out with are paying the bills. In their mind they are dating.

You seriously need to get a lawyer involved. He can read that BS paper you signed and tell you the reprecussions of it in your inital free consultation. Just go for that dont put a retainer down yet.

Im not a lawyer but here is what I see.

You agreed to pay for her
She agreed to give you a no contest divorce.

So if you breech the terms so can she. She can protest the divorce.

So where is the downside? SHE is the one that wants the D not you. She is running around and if she isnt involved in an A yet (unlikely) she will be soon. You will catch her and the courts wont hold you financially liable for support.

Even if she gets support it wont be much. You dont make much. It wont last forever since she has the capability to make her own money and you havent been married long.

I cant advise you what to do with your M though. Only you can.

Just remember as you get older it gets more and more expensive. Kids cost money and are a permanent tie. More money you make the more you are liable to pay in support. Recovery is VERY hard. BOTH sides have to want it. You cant push a rope.

You don't want this Son.

Please, go file so you can get on with your life.

There's a slim-to-none chance it might be worth saving ... the beginning to that path can look an awful lot like the beginning of the path to divorce.

Have you read about Plan A and Plan B?

You have been married for less than two years, in that time she has left you multiple times and slept with at least 3 men (Probably more) Time to file, you might even get an annulment.

Has she ever been diagnosed with any mental problems, Bi-Polar, etc?

My XWH started to use the term "controlling" when i wanted to save the M. Of course she will say you are controlling -- you are ruining all of her "fun". Replace control with assertive. You need to protect yourself and your own feelings and have boundaries. Signing a "play as you want" paper is neither controlling nor too nice.

Only you can decide if you want to save your M. I do agree with some here that with only 1.5 years invested in this and no children (true blessing), it will be much easier for you to move forward with your life and use this site as a learning tool for your next relationship.

File for a divorce. That "agreement" that she signed is not worth the cost of the paper it was written on. You are young and have plenty of time to find a woman deserving of your love. This girl has a lot of growing up to do. Do you really want to wait around and see if she finally figures it out? She doesn't have a clue about what marriage is supposed to be.

I seriously doubt you will end up having to pay for ANY support for her because (1) the length of your marriage, and (2) there are no children of the marriage. LET HER GO!!!! If you were my son, I'd escort you to the courthouse and help you file the divorce myself. If she's doing this so early in your marriage imagine what she'll be capable of a few years down the road.

GET OUT NOW!!!

i agree with all of you and have considered all of that, and im getting to that point, theres just something about me thinking that shell change after she realizes these other people are just telling her what she wants to hear so they can sleep with her. it sounds pathetic i know and i should probably let her go, its just hard because ive been with her since i was 16 years old.

I almost never outright advise someone on this board to go directly to divorce, but that is what I am advising you do.

But, for kicks, grins and giggles....

Have you exposed her affairs?
Your parents, her parents, any one who has morals and can put pressure on her to stop this foolishness?

Guess what? Many of us have been with our spouses for much longer, and still they cheated on us. This woman clearly is NOT marriage material. You can't force her to be. You have to accept the fact that you made a mistake in judgement marrying this woman so quickly and so young and move on with your life. I promise you, you will find someone MUCH BETTER than her. She is a typical romantic, hopping from one guy to the next until the romance wears off. This woman is probably going to marry several times and have several different kids from different fathers. You need to divorce her and pick a more suitable, grounded partner in the future. If you accept this now, she will continue to cheat on you the duration of your marriage.

Well, you know, there's a slim chance that might be possible.

As I asked before, have you read about Plan A and Plan B?

Sigh...this is such a mess...I do agree file for a divorce, but if you can't and you still want to try to save this marriage then I hope you know your about to get on a HUGE roller coaster ride, that will be bumpy and hard!!

Here is what you need to do...

1. EXPOSE her A's ALL OF THEM! Get on FB, tell your family, friends, her family, her friends, co-workers etc. Make the exposure NUCLEAR!

2. Start working your Plan A, read about the carrot and the stick about plan a.

3. Gather ALL the evidence you can on all of her A's, file it somewhere, where she can't find it

4. Talk to a lawyer, to see what you can do financially.

Sorry you are here but if you want to save your M that is exactly what you have to do...if not, then what are you waiting for? File for DIVORCE NOW!

I have read plan A and B and i have exposed to my parents, and friends, not hers. Last night she agreed to move back home with her parents. She also said she loves me but after everything thats happened she thinks our relationship will never be the same and that we should just call it quits. Should i still expose to them or just let her go?

Sex with 3 other men, living with another man and kissing countless men within 2 years of being married? You need to expose to everyone and see a lawyer at once. Try to get an annulment if possible.

It is absolutely essential that you get tested for STD's. She has put your health at great risk. You know she has been engaging in unprotected sex. Please don't waste your life on someone like this. Find someone in the future who can respect you and a marriage. She has no clue. You judge people by their actions and not by their words. She has absolutely no respect for you and your health. If you do not respect yourself then who will?

I would definitely expose to her parents what is going on, if they are good folks they might be able to help her.

But you need to file for either a divorce or an annulment.

Like I said, I almost never tell anyone on here to go strait to that, but you should.

She started this behavior at 19.

I have seen it many, many times. When your that young your adult personality is still forming, your sens of right, wrong, and your sens of morality are being assembled. These senses get "Hard-Wired" in your brain within a few years.

She is forming a life long moral value system that says it is alright to leave your husband and have relationships and sex with other men anytime she wants. Don't be surprised to find out she has been dabbling in recreational drugs as well. At that age promiscuous sex always seems to be followed by drug use.

This path of destructiveness will continue until something snaps her out of it. In my experience it is usually an "Unplanned" pregnancy where the fathers identity is ambiguous at best. Sometimes not even that affects there downward spiral.

Go talk to her parents.
Go to a dark Plan-B
And please,Please, file today.

thank you gack, i think thats the response i needed. I got the papers today, its gonna be a couple weeks before i can file because im broke right now, but thank you for the advice everyone

You are young and no kids makes it best to dump her for she has shown that life with her will be married to a serial cheater.

Me telling you to dump her is not the same as what do you want to do. Which is?

This girl will need years of therapy with a good IC to fix herself.

Will this happene?

Will she stay fixed?

Ask family members to help you file SOONER...sooner is better then alter trust me! Your family will understand.

Have you exposed her multiple A's to her family yet? If not I would do so..like YESTERDAY!

i will expose tonight. its probably gonna be rough because she is their little princess and "im the bad guy" to their knowledge. But well see what happens and ill update asap.

Good for you!!

Just for a warning your wife will be VERY VERY angry and upset when you do this.

But they all need to know what their little precious daughter has been doing...give them PROOF!!

Please get tested for STDs before you ever have sex again!

Alright. i exposed everything to her parents. they were upset but not too surprised. They said shed be on the phone with them while she would be with another guy so they figured something was up but didnt realize it was as bad as it was. They also brought up that they believed she may be bi-polar she has always showed signs but never gone in to be diagnosed. Either way they are on my side and will be contacting her shortly. I also told them to not be surprised if she shows up at their doorstep in a week. They told me they dont blame me and ive put up with it for longer than they would of. I was surprised because i was nervous as hell calling them i didnt think theyd believe me or just blow it off but they seemed to want to help. well i guess ill update as soon as my wife comes at me with a knife lol.

Great job! I am happy that you were supported! She will be angry, but just tell her you are doing whatever it takes to save your marriage.

Next up...

And after that comes out, you will find there have been many more sexual encounters than just the three you know of.

AWESOME!!

And after that comes out, you will find there have been many more sexual encounters than just the three you know of. [/quote]

I did find out that she has been smoking pot every once and a while, and shes deffinately been drinking alot, and trust me i do believe theres been more than 3 encounters, her and my [ex] friend have had a thing but they both deny theyve had sex, they just "kissed"... whatever. But now what, ive exposed. Last night she came home mad, i was 80% asleep so i dont remember much of what she said but her dad isnt talking to her and her mom is upset, and "Im treating her like im her father and shes my kid". But now what? Do i just send her back home? Or do i try to get her help?

You file for divorce, or annulment.

Borrow the money from you parents and hire a lawyer and get it started.

You need to be doing this TODAY!

She does not want your help, so don't.
If she wants to go to her parents then let her.

But you NEED to file for divorce or annulment, NOW!

Alright after doing alot of research on this site ive realized and learned ALOT.

Funny enough the past few months i have been doing a pretty solid plan A without even knowing it. And whether or not she has some underlying problems (depression, bi-polar) she has been unhappy with me from not meet EN's and the romance was gone. She has always told me shed never cheat on me and it was against her moral values. Therefore something changed her values. So I think OM started talking to her meeting her needs and she may of pushed him away at first but slowly started to change her moral values to meet her needs and be happy. Obviously she had to push me away to continue to let the affair continue. After the spark was gone with the first OM, she was further from me than ever, and since shes an extremely attractive woman it wasn't difficult for her to replace the first guy with another. and so on. and since this has been going on for months and months her moral values are so f***ed that shes lost in some fantasy world where she can come and go as she pleases, because its ok for her to do what shes doing because she is already emotionally seperated from me and divorce is inevitable. So in order for her to stick to whatever morals she has left she will start a fight and seperate from me physically and therefore its not cheating. (she actually told me that she doesnt feel shes cheated on me because we were seperated when the acts took place, and by seperated she "moved out for the night")
Although Plan A did not bring her back to me, i do think i did a good enough job showing her I care and confront her about the affairs, and now ive even exposed them.
After everyones advice and researching this site, i too feel divorce is inevitable, and I will be going to a dark plan B.
But where Im going to break everyones advice is i'm going into plan B for 2 reasons, I want to protect myself, but im not ready to move on. When I send her back to her parents, I am hoping she hits a brick wall of reality, but i do want her to come running back to me. (unless she gets pregnant)
But i will be ready to move on if she moves on or continues to be crazy.

I just hope im not over analyzing the situation and having a false sense of hope, like some of you have mentioned she might have underlying problems, and even if she does come around will it be permanent? Either way If all goes as planned and she comes back I will use all the resources on this site to make sure nothing like this ever happens again.

thoughts?

Ive got the divorce papers (annulment is no longer possible)
My dad is helping me with the legal stuff, but not financial stuff because they cant afford it either. But since it will be uncontested I won't need a lawyer, so once i get 280$ i can bring in the papers and file, then in 4 months show up for the final hearing and its over.

If you are going into plan B let me tell you a couple things....

When a couple has no kids, it is harder for the WS to come back, and right now it doesn't sound like your wife has no reason to come back to you sorry :(, sounds like she is doing just fine with out you (even though in reality she is messed up emotionally) but in reality you have a 20% chance that she will be crawling back, and when she does it will be a LONG LONG recovery.

Go into A DARK PLAN B for NOW!

File those papers anyway, you can still do this in a dark plan B

Find someone who can be the IM

Change the locks, so she can't come in the house while you are gone

Talk to your lawyer and see what you can do about her adulterous life, so you do not have to support her after the marriage.

Good luck!

what does IM mean?

Are you supporting her financially?

If you are ready for Plan-B, then ask her to move out.

Once she has provide her with a Plan-B letter stating that until she is done committing adultery, you must protect yourself from the pain she is causing you. Explain to her that once she is ready to go no contact with all the OM, and ready to commit herself to marital recovery, you will consider allowing her back. But until then you wont no further contact with her.

Name an intermediary she can use if she needs to contact you.

IM : Intermediary

Yes i am supporting her financially, But her parents already said she wil be able to move back in with them "but she will be working and going back to school and she will not have men running around this house" =] ... i liked the sound of that. The only Bills Ill have of hers will be our phone bill, but ive already blocked all text messaging and internet usage and shes limited to 450 mins a month after that her phone will not work.

next wed will be the day shes moving out, what should i do until then? should i write the plan-b letter today? or wait till shes actually moving out?

also i really cant think of an intermediary, my friends and family wont want to talk to her, the only people i can think of is maybe her parents. but thats a big maybe because i honestly dont think shell tell her parents to contact me if she does need anything. is an intermediary necessary?

no write your plan B letter now! Get prepared for your plan B, even buy some locks so when she's out you can change them that day, just hide them so she doesn't know what your doing.

Her parents are better then none, and I wouldn't bother with her anyway, just go into a plan B, and help yourself.

well i dont have to worry about the locks because shell be 1000 miles away when shes gone. as for the letter, by write it today, do you mean give it to her today as well?

unless you want your plan B starting NOW! Why not anyway? Her parents already told you that she can stay with them. What are you waiting for? It's not suppose to be convenient for the WS it's supposed to be when ever your ready to make the next plan.

yea thats the thing, I dont get paid until next wed. and she has to drive 1000 miles, therefore I need to give her atleast 200$ to get home and i wont have that until pay day. I would like plan B to start today to hit her with the 1-2 from the exposure and plan-b in 2 days but she wont actually be out of my house until the 30th

Ask her parents to help, ask your friends I'm sure they will understand and help you loan the $$..if you want to start today then do that and give her your plan B letter, once you written if post it here first so the vets can help you change it and edit it to make it be the best plan b letter.

alright sounds good does anyone know of any Plan-B letters that i can use as an example?

I found this on one of Marks posts...he's smart...this is what he wrote..

Plan B: What it is and what it is not.

Plan B is NOT leaving your home and letting your wayward spouse continue the affair unabated without any sort of efforts to break the affair first. This means that leaving your home in anger or at the request of your wayward spouse upon discovery of the affair or after confrontation over the affair will not be Plan B and will not allow for a very useful Plan A.

Plan B is NOT calling your lawyer and filing for divorce out of frustration and then calling the cops when he or she refuses to leave. It isn�t throwing the cheater out in the cold to punish him or her.

Plan B is NOT moving down the hall to the spare bedroom and letting your spouse have his or her affair partner over for a sleep-over while you stay out of the way and stay quiet.

Plan B is NOT a way to make the cheater�s life hell on Earth.

Plan B is NOT the first salvo in divorce proceedings unless your spouse decides to make the first step and file when you pull the trigger on Plan B.

Plan B, like Plan A is a PLAN. It is something you do and not something that happens to you. It is an action and not a reaction.

Plan B is NOT something that will make your spouse suddenly realize that the world is about to end and cause him or her to fall at your feet and beg you to let them back into your life and if they do that you need to realize that it is also not supposed to be so that you can drive them away because you are tired of sealing with this crap.

Plan B is not for any reason related to the affair beyond one single point. It is designed to let the betrayed spouse have a life with some sense of normalcy built into it, heal the raw emotions of having been cheated on and allow time for the affair to come to an end before deciding to go ahead and divorce. It protects YOU from the wayward spouse and the pain he or she is causing YOU.


I'll try to find a sample of plan B, but If I was you I would read everything in scotlands thread about newly betrayed spouse, I'll bump it for you so you can start reading it.

N_A,

There is a good discussion on Plan B letters in the MB101 forum under Everhopefulguy's thread (When getting W to talk to Steve is an LB or something similar is the title).

Here's the one from SAA, you can tweak it here to fit your situation.


My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, withdrawal from our marriage and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation,I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon

Also, I'm not sure if this has been linked already but:


Intermediary Trainihg School

1. Plan-B will not work untill she leaves. You cannot do Plan-B wile living together. Wait untill she is about to drive off to her parents to give her a PBL.

2. Do not give her one single penny to facilitate her leaving, not one. If she needs gas money to leave her marital home to go live with her parents then someone else can flip the bill.

3. The moment she is out of eye sight you cancel her phone.


Undestand this, YOU do not pay one single penny to help your wife leave you, or support her in any way once she has. No insurance, no car payment, no phone. If you have a joint checking account remove your name from it and get your own.
Do you understand?

Then Mark goes on saying....

It is not designed to bring them back to you, broken, repentant and begging forgiveness. It is not designed to make them pay for the transgressions they have committed and it is not designed to make them have an epiphany and call the affair off. It might do those things and might be seen as those things by the wayward spouse but Plan B is intended only to avoid having to completely deplete your own Love Bank in the face of an affair that is the biggest Love Buster of all of them knowing that nearly all affairs will end within two years of being discovered and confronted.

If your spouse leaves or you do at the beginning of Plan B, realize that it is a high risk venture with a low probability of high reward. It is the last chance to save enough to try to recover when the affair ends, which statistically it will do within a couple of years. Your spouse might not miss you at all, especially at first, but the better you made Plan A demonstrate your ability to be the spouse of his or her dreams the more likely it is to have that affect. It MIGHT push things toward a speedy end of the affair and a repentant spouse seeking reconciliation but you can�t enter Plan B expecting that to happen by some near future date.

Plan B can last till the cheater seeks to return or until you have given the affair enough time to become typical or an anomaly that might last forever. Two years is long enough. If the affair hasn�t imploded by then, it might end any day or could last for years. At that point it is time to decide what to do but if you have been in a dark Plan B and have not been love busted daily for two years and have experienced your own withdrawal from your still wayward spouse, by that time you should be able to make an informed decision regarding your future without having to do it reactively and based entirely on raw emotions.

IF your spouse decides to return home and end the affair and seek restoration of your relationship, then you will get to try your hand at recovery and rebuilding the marriage while fixing whatever was wrong with it before the affair began. For advice for that scenario, we�ll address it when the time comes. Just understand that you can only fix the marriage if you are married and can only fix it if you have enough to give to the effort. Plan A shows the wayward what might be possible and Plan B allows you to see what might be possible for you. Neither one has anything to do with fixing the marriage. You can only fix it if you save it. If you try to fix it while it is falling apart, you won�t save it and will have nothing left to fix. If you divorce over being hurt because you let the drama of the affair go on past your ability to deal with it, you will not be able to fix it because it will be gone.

A good, intense, full throttle Plan A, with nothing held back, using both the carrot and the stick to make the marriage a better choice than the affair makes recovery a possibility. A poorly executed or misdirected Plan A or one that continues longer than you can actually do it will result in not saving your marriage. So a hard and fast Plan A, followed by a dark Plan B that can last until you can figure out if the affair is going to end is your best bet to save your marriage and get a chance at recovery. Nothing is a sure bet, so if you are looking for guarantees, I can only give you one�I guarantee that if you do a haphazard Plan A, or use only the carrot side of Plan A or try to do Plan A until you hate your wayward spouse and fail to save enough to get through Plan B intact in your care and love for him or her, you stand almost no chance at all of recovering your marriage.

Make the marriage a better option by meeting Emotional Needs and getting rid of Love Busters while at the same time making the affair as difficult to continue as possible by using the stick and every weapon at your disposal to fight against the affair itself and not merely fight with your spouse about the affair. If it isn�t working and you know you are doing it right, be ready to drop the Plan B bomb and get away from the madness before it consumes you and whatever love you have left.

Others can help you write a Plan B letter when the time is right. There are examples here that can be of help to you, but it is not your final farewell and good riddance letter or a Dear John or Dear Jane letter telling your spouse goodbye forever. It is a love letter explaining that you desire to be married to them but your love will not let you share them with another person and that you must stop having anything to do with him or her until such time as the affair has ended. It should tell them who your intermediary is and how to contact you in case of life or death emergencies or for problems with planned parental visitation with the children. It should probably include directions that allow for a path home if and when they are ready to end the affair and recommit to the marriage and any specific requirements you might have to enter into such an endeavor.

If you get to Plan B, let it be your quiet time, your reflection time, a time for you to learn, to grow and to become the strongest person you can become. If Plan B ends in a return of your spouse you will need all of that and more and you will need to have enough left in your Love Bank to even care�

alright i think i have a good understanding of plan B and yes Gack I do understand and I will try to follow everyones advice, this is going to be kind of a different plan B just because we will be getting a divorce but might allow her to come back to work on our relationship

People have gotten remarried after a divorce. It does happen. Set your bar high for any kind of recovery. But you MUST remove yourself from your wife's abuse.

If she comes around and you guys make it, great. If not, personal recovery is still recovery.

And the crowd said...."AMEN!!"

I want to explain further why I advise divorce in your case.

Plan-A and Plan-B will give you the best chances there are to stop an affair so that recovery can begin. It puts the affair partners in the light and places pressure on both of them to end the affair.

The problem here is your wife is not really addicted to any particular OM. She has become/is becoming addicted to the single party girl lifestyle of promiscuous sex, alcohol, drugs, and a complete lack of having any actual responsibility.

Once she leaves and moves in with her parents, it wont be more than a few weeks before she finds her parents too controlling and moves out with another OM, then another, then another.

thank you for that vibrissa.
Gack I do see where your going with this and that is why i am still filing for divorce but setting the bar high as vibrissa put it. I do have hope for her still but only time will tell.

with that said, i basically took the same letter posted here earlier and tweaked it. (I am terrible at writing letters) so if someone can take a look at this super rouhg draft, edit, add delete whatever let me know


I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that made you unhappy with me and make your affairs possible. I foolishly did not understand my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationships with other men once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Your parents have agreed to help make arrangements for you move back in with them. I will be filing for divorce, and if you want to communicate about that or any other matter, it will have to be through your parents.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationships with other guys, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with other people. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from all other men and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our relationship someday, and maybe try dating again, or getting remarried. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing other people.

With my love,

AGREE!

Remember when I posted about having no kids will be a problem for plan B? Well, this is why, she is loving her party life, she wont change.

But by all means, do plan B first, then file. Or you can do it both at the same time.

Sorry for your loss...actually...I'm not sorry for your loss, you are better with out her.

alright, im drawing a blank on what to replace those with.

Just say you will work hard to meet her needs in the future, but don't basically excuse her affair for not meeting her needs.

Just replace it with this. (the blue)

alright thank you, I'll be updating this as things happen

So are you going to go into plan B now? I would, I wouldn't wait, call her parents and tell them that she will be over there tomorrow!

most likely though she wont move in with her parents, she will move in with the OM she is currently with, sorry to say but it's the truth

So get her OUT NOW!

yes, well im not at home right now, and after exposing everything last night i wont be surprised to find out she already left, but we'll see when i get off of work.

well actually here is my plan, im going to go home and if shes there im going to ask her if shes going to move back to her parents house in WI, or if shes going to stay in NC. if she says NC then shes gone tonight, if she says WI then plan B will have to wait a couple days, If i kick her out today then she will move in with OM for sure, but if plan B is to split them up then obviously the best thing is for her to move back to WI

So it didnt work out quite as nice as i thought, i asked her where she wanted to stay she said NC so I gave her the letter and asked her to be gone by tomarrow. She then just got upset as to why i was kicking her out and refused and said she would move out when she got a job, I then said no thats not how it works i want you to respect my decision and leave, well instead of leaving for good she packed a suit case for 1 night and left to "TJ's" I told her to be back by tomarrow (now today) to get the rest of her stuff, she then told me not to touch her stuff. So I told her to come back tomarrow to pack and get all of her stuff out or I would pack it for her and be on the porch.

be careful. Be aware that by doing this you are evicting her from her own house and that is tricky. There is a legal process for those things. If she agrees its no big deal. If she gets pissed it could look badly on you.

What did your lawyer say?

She did agree, and she wants to move out, but shes trying to move out on her terms, She does not work and has never payed a bill in her life, shes not even on the mortgage, therefore the house is not hers at all.

Need to talk with your lawyer about community property. While you were married you allowed her to sit home and do nothing. You accepted that as the norm. That WAS her job. Now because things are bad you cant change the arrangement. You allowed her to be lazy. The sad thing is the house is maritial property and its disposition will be arbitrated between yall or decided on by a judge.

Here is an example. Lets say man A works and man B watches the kids and is a housewife. Thats her job. If they divorce since he brought all the money into the M does she get left desititute? Nope. She gets spousal support for a period. They had an agreement that her watching the kids and thats her job.

Now here is the reality. All the disposition of assets are determined by the judge if yall cant come to a mutual agreement. Depending on the laws of your state they can consider cause and fault. I live in a fault state. Since my wife committed adultery she automatically is barred from spousal support. For assets they can consider that too. She will get something though.

Just be aware you might have to buy her out of the house or sell it and split the cost.

well we have agreed that i will take the house and continue to pay on it, right now nothing is contested, she gets the truck and all of her stuff and i get the house and all of my stuff, she was supposed to move back in with her parents, but since i exposed everything to her parents she is now refusing to move back in with them

I knew that was gunna happen, can you call her parents to see if they can come by and pick her up? She wont be able to refuse if they are willing to take care of her...and btw I have heard plenty of BS packing their WS things and leave them on the porch, if they agreed to leave, then I would do just that.

Whos is "TJ?" I really think that her parents should be there helping you get her out to their home, if she doesn't then she will be bouncing around to all the diff men, and if that happens, a lot of bad stuff will happen....

Rape, murder, drug abuse, etc....

So talk to her parents now, and see what they can do to help you.

yes, that was the next thing I planned on doing, hell ill even pay her dad to do it if moneys an issue. and tj is some guy she has lived with before when we were having trouble, im guessing its one of the other men shes been with but ive never seen proof and she denys it.
But I'll be getting in touch with her parents tonight seeing if maybe they can pick her up.

I would call them now not tonight, if you call them tonight then it will be too late for them to swing by to pick her up..you want her out NOW! This is what I would do...right now!

Call her parents let them know what is going on, and you will need their help before she ends up dead, or hurt.

Pack up her things

I would do those two things right now! So you are ready when she comes home and her parents are at the house, her things are all packed, ready to go home to her parents.

Even if TJ hasn't slept with your WW, he's been trying to. Get her parents on board with you. I'd also let his parent know that a married woman is now shacking up with him.

Not all states are community property states and some states recognize home ownership as separate property if you owned the home before you married. She would be entitled to 1/2 of the value of any improvements made to the home, or 1/2 of any equity built up during the term of the marriage, but that'd probably be about it. You guys haven't been married long enough for there to be much.

I agree with the others about getting her out though. I would pack her things and have them sitting on the curb since you've already warned her that would happen. Then change the locks. She can probably go to a Judge to ask for access to the home but it depends on the laws in your state as to whether he would grant it. You've already given her the Plan B letter?

well the reason i say tonight is that im at work now, her parents are at work and its a 18 hour drive to get here from their house. Yes I have given her the plan B letter. and jmwc95 id love to contact tj's parents but I have no information about this guy, i dont even know where he lives, i only know his phone number

Call them during lunch, they might be able to do something, the sooner the better though! Leave a voice message explaining everything, and have them call you back ASAP.

When do you get off work?

i dont get off work until around 330 E.T.

this is really alot harder than i thought itd be and its barely started, shes only been gone for less than a day and i miss her like crazy, i got no sleep last night, all i could think about is shes gone and at another guys house sleeping with him

1. I don't think you should have given her the letter until she moved out.

2. If your state is anything like mine, she has to agree to leave on her own. You can not kick her out without a court order... But she may not know that which can work in your favor.

3. If your in the state I think your in, (North Carolina)there is a mandatory 1yr "Cooling Off" period for all divorces. Where you aware of that?

4. You need to get a lawyer to advise you how to proceed. Some of the things you are doing, may look very bad to a judge. Then again, they may be fine...depends on the laws there.

It will be hard..trust me on that. Just focus on you now, you can't control her actions/emotions just yours Plan B is to help you out, not her. Keep reading on this site, to help you, it has a lot of articles, stay busy at work and at home.

Good luck!

And don't forget that their are people on this site that are willing to help, even if you wanna get on here and vent

Seriously, don't take know for an answer. As a BS, you should be capable of developing some serious James Bond type intelligence and surveillance. If you have his full name, you can probably find his parents for free. $50, and you can know everything you ever wanted to know about the guy. Also, NC has Alienation of Affection laws. You can get a lawyer to write a cease and decist contact order to OM and if he still contacts your WW, you can sue him.

Again, I think you should just move on, but if you are going to fight, then fight full force. Don't be scared or timid. Be strong and determined.

If he indeed is in North Carolina then he can sue for divorce on the grounds of adultery, and then it may only take about 3 months. This would also absolve him of any spousal support requirements. If there is any concern about him getting her out of the house, in NC you can also file for divorce from bed and board in cases of adultery. However, you need to have pretty definative proof of adultery. As you said - he NEEDS to talk to a lawyer ASAP before he messes up and gives her an opportunity to go after him for support or access to the home.

Yes definitely see a lawyer. The divorce laws in North Carolina are complex and it is not a community property state. There are specific steps that you need to take to protect yourself financially, especially since the home is in your name. Your lawyer can tell you what steps you need to take. Fortunately, adultery CAN be used in NC in awarding/not awarding alimony.

I do live in NC but im a resident of WI and I was planning on getting a WI divorce, because of the one year seperation and also because NC divorce laws are complex. But I did not know that i could use adultery against her, so maybe NC divorce would be best?
But then again she has agreed to a non contested WI divorce, the papers are filled out waiting on signatures, and everything is divided to both of our likings

I think you need to have lived in NC for 6 months, but I am not sure on that. NC is as punative as it gets for adultery (no alimony, no bed and board, alienation of affection, even sometimes consideration for custody), but if you have a clear, easy path for uncontested divorce in WI that gives you everything you want, that would surely be cheaper than taking on a big fight in NC. I think you still should at least have a consultation with an NC attorney to make sure you dont take any actions that she can use against you, though.

ok, i will do that, i have lived in NC for 2 years but im active duty military so I still pay WI state taxes and have a home address there

I think the laws are more favorable in NC, so I would look into getting a divorce there if possible. Who cares if it takes a year. Most take at least 6 months anyway. Again, you can sue her paramours to get them away from her if you want. But then again, just get away from her. She is nothing but trouble. I don't care how much you love her. There are plenty of women out there to love that won't go screwing around on you with half the town. Love is a choice. Choose wisely who you give your love to.

Jim Ive gotta ask, Ive been reading your story, havent gotten too far yet, im busy at work but I cant help but notice you and your wife are a younger couple, with no kids, and D-day was not too long after you got married, and you are in recovery. Why is it that everyone keeps telling me shes not worth it. I know its different because there been mulitple affairs, but out of the 4 years ive been with her 6 months have been terrible, 6 months before that werent good, but the other 3 years have been the best 3 years of my life with her. And i honestly feel that this is some crazy phase she is in.

I'm not trying to say you guys are wrong, your advice is priceless, but I cant help but think that since the 3 good years are unacounted on here that im right when i say it is worth saving.

Here is why my advice to you is different than what I did.

1) We were married twice as long before my WW had her affair.
2) My WW did not have sex w/ OM. Yours is screwing half the town.
3) I should have divorced my WW. A huge part of me regrets not doing so then.

As for your situation, 3 great years is why you are trying to save this? That's it? Three years? You've got 50 more years. After 30 more crappy years with her are you going to look back and say, "man, we had a great 3 years together." Anyone can have 3 good years together. In any relationship, you can have 3 good years, but then throw responsibility, work, kids, etc., into the mix and it all falls apart. When do you think most marriages fall apart? The first major time people get divorced is in the first 3 years. Then the next major time is right after children are born. Then the 3rd major time is after the children leave the house.

College was a great 4 years, but do you see me staying in it for 40 more years? At some point you have to realize the past is the past and move on.

You are the only person that can make that call. Jim is the voice of experience though and may be on to something as to what your future holds. Multiple affairs speaks of a larger issue than just a "crazy phase". You may not feel it now, but years down the road the resentment for her betrayal may hit you square between the eyes and by then you will have wasted the good years of your youth. There needs to be some serious growing up done for this marriage to survive.

Agreed. This is not just a "crazy phase." True character is revealed in times of crisis. Your WW may have been all sweet and nice when things were good, but she just showed you who she truly is. You don't like it, do you? Then why would you stay with her once you found out the truth about her?

Well ive got alot of thinking to do, but i dont think it will hurt to go to a modified plan B with alittle bit of hope for a turn around, and if she never agrees to my terms then atleast i tried

Explain what a "modified" plan B is?

A plan to fail.

The following quote was written by a long ago Mber, Takola.
It's a light hearted approach to a serious issue.




When you come to MARRIAGE BUILDERS looking for marriage help ...

PLEASE ** PLEASE ** PLEASE

READ and FOLLOW the ENTIRE "recipe".

ASK for help, if you do not understand the "recipe".

Don't think that if you follow the "easy" parts of the "recipe", and leave out the more challenging parts, you will get the same results.

You won't.

ARE YOU GOING TO SUE BETTY CROCKER, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT FOLLOW THE RECIPE AND YOUR CAKE CAME OUT CRAPPY?

If you do a "modified plan B", and it fails, you cannot place blame for the failure on the MB plans that you did not follow.
Just so you know.

I'm not saying I'm trying to do things different than what people are saying, I wish I would have found the website sooner than I did. The reason I said "modified plan B" is because I was not able to start from the begining with exposure, then plan A, then plan B. I know Plan B itself will not work, but as I said in the begining when I first found out I blamed myself, I have a very religous friend that gave me some advice, and his advice was pretty much describing a plan A. He told me to change my ways and meet her needs and love her unconditionally and not cause her any pain but let her know that what she is doing is hurting me. I did this for around 3 months before I found this site. I did expose to my side of the family early on, but I did not expose to her side until a few days ago. Gack about your post before, I DID give her the plan B letter as she was leaving, I asked her if she wanted to move back in with her parents, she said no so i asked her to leave and be totally gone by the next day, She got mad and packed a small suitcase and as she was leaving I gave her the letter and told her to pick up the rest of her stuff while I was at work.
And Jim I did not mean to offend you, so sorry if I did.
With all that said, yesterday she did come get the rest of her stuff while I was at work as I requested, she was still there when i got home. She then explained to me everything, i don't know if it was lies, fog or whatever, but she said that she was unhappy with me when she found out I was keeping in touch with an ex girlfriend about a year ago and she started talking to one of our mutual friends about how she was unhappy with me, she went on to explain how they started getting feelings for eachother and how hed always tell her how he could treat her better than I could. They both have denied any sexual contact other than they "made out" I still don't believe it but whatever. She also said that "josh" is the only person she had actual feelings for. I asked "what about the people you slept with?" she told me she doesnt know, she was just lost and stupid and she didnt want it but gave into it. After I listened to her explain her story to me I told her I was sorry for keeping in contact with me ex girlfriend and I would never contact "katie" again, but I still needed her to leave and respect the letter I wrote her. She acknowledged that she would follow it and told me that she was going to move back in with her parents in WI and that she was leaving this weekend, and that shed be at TJ's until then. Later last night after I had already gone to bed, she came back over to the house and woke me up. Like ive mentioned before im trying to quit smoking so i was on sleeping pills so I dont remember much of anything last night all i remember is her saying that she wanted to stay with me, and that shed agree to my terms of the plan B letter, I dont remember what I said, but i also remember her trying to sleep in the same bed as me for the first time in a while.
what now? do i believe her? what changed her mind? theres no way me exposing to her parents and kicking her out made her change her mind in 2 days. And even if shes telling the truth, and is serious about agreeing to my terms what do I do next?
any thoughts?

Then what you were trying to do was plan B. However, you hadn't really planned on what to do if she agreed to your plan B conditions. She might just be manipulating you into allowing her to stay when she has no intention of actually following through on your conditions.

First thing I would do is to set up an appointment for her with Steve Harley. Then, you need to make it very clear that she must agree AND follow through on all your plan B conditions. Otherwise, she's back out. Don't allow her back and then have her only half-@ss it. That was my mistake. She needs to be fully on board, or she can hit the highway.

thank you jim, I agree if shes on board already then great I was preparing for alot worse, but if not then yes shes gone. does anyone have experience with talking to Dr. Harley? is it hard to get an appointment? and I dont know how many sessions I can afford. I might be able to afford 1 session a month at most. well maybe 2 sessions per month now that I quit smoking =]

DO NOT BACK DOWN ON YOUR PLAN B!

But if you want her back then do the following...

1. Make an App with SH
2. Have her write a NC letter TO ALL THE BOYS she slept with or made out with....and you send them!
3. Have transparency, you haveing all the passwords to email, phone, FB, etc
4. Honesty, she has to tell you EVERYTHING, and where ever she goes you must know about.
5. 20 UA (Undivided Attention) per week
6. A poly test (if she doesn't agree with this, then you are going to be in a fake recovery)
7. Read HNHN TOGETHER
8. She has to delete her FB account and make a "JOINT" account with you.

That would be your terms for her to stay, if she doesn't want to follow just ONE of them KICK HER OUT!

that is a great idea, tonight when I get off of work I'm going to sit her down and get all the terms out, how do I discuss these terms with her without being an @sshole? I cant just sit down and say i need you to do this this this this this and this or your gone. I want to avoid any AO's tonight. also a poly test? those actually are available for public use? Would it really be worth it?

Why wait till you go home? Write her an email and say, this is what we are going to do to prevent any future affairs, so we can have an open/honesty/happy relationship, if you wont do the following, then I suggest you leave, and have some time to think about it.

Why wait? Let her know NOW!

SENT! I'll update when she responds

SWEET!!

My husband suggests she follow the MB program.

Like I said, if she doesn't then don't hesitate to kick her out..

I DO NOT believe her, when she says she wants to stay and fix the marriage, that's why I mention to put the bar VERY HIGH! And to see what she does, actions speaks louder then words.

have you installed a key logger on your computer to make sure she is in NC with any of the boys or NEW men?

If not...I would suggest you do that.

I have not yet, but I will if she agrees to terms. most of the contact was through text messages, right now her cell phone has text messages blocked and I blocked josh's number.

GOOD!

I agree actions speak louder than words which is why im still very skeptical myself. But I will order 2 HNHN books so we can read them together and schedule an appointment with SH

Where does this Josh live? Could she have contact with him in person?

You don't have to buy 2 of them, just get 1 and read out loud together...that is what my husband and I did.

Yes, Josh was actually a friend of mine, and he lives about 15 mins away. I have confronted him myself, he denied sleeping with her but did admit they had something going on, he appologized and said that she was telling him me and her were over and getting a divorce, I told him that if he talks to her again I will go straight to the commander and expose the affair. (adultery in active duty military will end his career)

He's married??

no he is not married, but he could still be punished for sleeping with another active duty members wife

Do not be too shocked if WW is not there when you get home, and is back to her old ways.

Just in case she is serious, what is your plan for snooping on her?

Do you have any evidence of this?

I dont have any evidence, but as long as he thinks I do hopefully he'll be scared to contact her

I'm not worried about your friend...what I am worried about is your wife sleeping around with other men! I am worried what your wife is saying...DO NOT BELIEVE HER!! Like I said watch her actions, have she emailed you yet? If not, then call home A.S.A.P and tell her to check her email.

as for snooping, I figured a key logger, keeping track of her cell phone calls and texts and if i find that texts are being deleted im going to get a program that saves all texts to the computer, records phone calls and ive heard they can even act as a voice recorder even when shes not on the phone

She hasnt emailed me yet, im gonna try to get off work alittle early today

Call her! Tell her about your email.

Don't tell her you are getting off work early.

Surprise her when you come home, you might find something that she is doing that you are not approve of.

Go ahead and get Flexi-Spy

And get a LSA Tracking Key

And a few Voice Activated Recorders to place around the house and in her car.

yea i planned on surprising her I called and she answered, sounded like she was sleeping, she said the internet and cable isnt working... whoops didnt pay the bill yet lol

ROFL!! Well then print it out, and talk to her when you get home. How early are you going home today?

ive heard of flexispy, but what is an LSA tracking key?

Im gonna try to get out of here about an hour or 2 early.

OK good luck!!

And remember, don't be afraid to kick her out, and start plan B again

I am actually really curious what she will be doing at the house when you get home, and if she is not there, call her and tell her to come home!

Google + LSA Tracking Key = Your answer

Just wanted you to know that My h and I were very young aswell when we got together,13/14, the different bond that is there and the codependency I understand all to well. My h went through the same rebelouse thing with me, however this was not a short phase like I belived or hoped it would be. This became the general way he handled himself and the conflicts within him. He might try for awhile, few months, a year, 3 years but all along mixed with the trying he tested the waters. Sometimes seeking a big reaction so that he didn't feel bad about going off. He would do things to make me happy, but they were mainly done to passify me and hold me to him.

Some of this behavior was always present, when we were younger though we didn't know how to talk things out, he would lie to go out with his friends, and then I would repremand him. He loved me deeply as a wife but at the same time veiwed me as something very different. His mother. Expecting unconditional love wich he tested at every turn, while trying to raise our family.

It has been 9 years of difficulties. What I've come to relize is this. We have uneven development as a direct result of geting together so young. We leaned on eachother for different reasons, he developed highly in one way and I in another, so we each were half developed people and that became obviouse in our early 20's when this long term affair became part of our lives.

All the plans didn't seem to work the way it did for others, plan A, plan B, I've done them several times. Of course we had children involved and that made it way more complicated. But what really played the bigest role was MATURITY.

The dinamic of our relationship allowed him outward growth, socially and within his profesion, and it allowed me inward growth. When he also was at a point of wanting inward growth aswell instead of doing things as a married man to premote that he would push me away once again as if I was the thing holding him back.

There are lots of issues at play here, and none that can be solved by me. He needs counciling, someone else besides me to explain the why's to him.

I'm telling you this so that you know your not alone, so you relize others have gone through what you have, and so you are prepared for your next step.

This is only a phase if her behavior, the whole way she looks at you and relates her frestrations of the world in relation to you. She has to learn new skills to live as a independent self regulating person who chooses to be married. And not veiw you in any way as holding her back from " life". This is not easy, she's probably been resentful for a long time.

You have to look at your situation here. You both are very young and skipped normal stages of independent growth. At the same time I bet you have a deep deep bond because of your young starting age. This is bothe very very good and very very hard!

You are already the strong one, but you must quite down the part of you that feels extream compashion, and the part of you that is scared of loosing her.

You may have a chance and you may not. I think all of this is harder ten fold with the young bond factor and you have to follow the MB plan that more closely because of that.

Plan B is a pertection to YOU! She might be freeking out and wanting to work things out out of fear of lose, but don't be fooled you are not out of the woods. She has to get into IC this is a MUST in situations like ours, do not make the mistakes I have with this. You did not meet later in life when you both were already very developed people. And some relizations may come fast for her but she may forget them just as fast, IC will be the holding hand she needs, the one you can't be because she will resent you at every turn.

If you agree to have here stay in your home she must realize there are new terms, to protect you until you feel like she is trustworthy, and that all of them will feel uncomfortable. IC she must agree to, independent social time is over for now, you guys must go out and build up new experiances, etc...

If she slips ask her to leave, and do a dark plan B again... Making IC a absolute requirement before you can ever have her come home.

Either way expect high drama! She has not developed the maturity you have so she will act like a stupid caged teenager, don't loose your cool, that's what they want, don't fall for any minipulation! You are going to get tried at every turn, this is more then a " phase" this is the way she relates to you your marriage and the world around her, she needs to grow up and this is going to take some time and alot of patience on both your parts. This dose not naturally happen! It would over a shorter time if you were not married but she doesn't have only herself to blame or only herself she let's down. This is not like others who learns through their own mistakes no no no not like that at all, she has you to blame everything on when it's convenient, you to lean on when it's convenient and she can't deal with her own feelings let alone yours.

This is going to be hard and I'm sorry you are going through this. Make sur every move you make is thought out with her, you can't let your emotions lead you with this one, they will fail you.

You need to handle your situation with a lot of confidence, your lines in the sand must be drawn.You want a wife not a daughter..

Good luck

thank you for that post newlife, I think your totally on point with that!

I have all sorts of stuff written out for the talk i plan on having with her when i get home. newlife would it be a bad idea to print out your post and let her read it?

DO NOT TELL HER ABOUT THIS WEBSITE!!

She will use it to sabotage any plan of action you might use.

Also, don't try and "Educate" her. Simply tell her what your boundaries are in your relationship.

alright, thank you, Ill update later tonight on what all happens

Yeah never tell her about the site! My h and his ow found out about it and I not only couldn't get advice online without the ow hunting me down, even posted on MB we had I belive the worst fight on MB, she also convinced my h that I was minipulating him with plans etc... I had no way to speak freely online, even took my advice I gave suffering bs's for herself to use with my h. This was many years ago, 7 however ever since my h became aware of plan a plan b well let's just say implmenting either is very hard.

In fact I'm in plan b now, not dark because of the kids, but I'm not trying to get him back so I don't care if he takes it seriously. Been seperated 9 months, have my on life, he dose try to minipulate etc sometimes I given. Like I said I'm not trying at this point I have given up. I will get a d by the end of the summer, there is no way he can't get that line in the sand. I still love him so deeply, however his patterns did not change. He is very capible of being a responsible person and consideret selfless etc with everyone else BUT ME... This is because of our now 18 years of his disfunction, and redirection. I have realized there is nothing more I can do. He will forever tell me he wants us, but is willing to do nothing to make that happen. So I'm letting him go.

You have to be tuff, keep your support here and seriously follow The MB guidlines, and don't share the mb info for some time, you are NOT there yet.

Don't be scared of my sitch, had we not had kids, things would have been way different, and if he didn't know about mb that would have been great too.

You do have a real chance here it's not hopeless, but she needs IC and you need to be kinda like a volkin, pure logic. Those things I mentioned will come out for her in IC, I know you want to speed up the whole process been there done that, can't happen. She will not be happy to find out your talking about your sitch to strangers online, they don't like that..

The only thing that worries me about IC is that the last MC I had was so terrible, im worried an IC would tell her to do even worse things. Like that she needs to worry about herself and do what it takes for HER to be happy, not US to be happy

I would worry about this as well.

Faith based counseling might be a better alternative.

Or just do MB and don't worry about IC yet.

well today wasnt a good day. i got home from work and guess what, she wasnt there. i called her and she said she was house watching for a friend until tomarrow night. so i asked her if she could come home so we could talk and she said she didnt have enough gas or any money. i asked her why she didnt ask me first and she said what are u my father? i didnt wanna blow up so i just said i had to go and hung up. i called her back about an hour later asking if shed be willing to atleast meet up somewhere and she agreed. so we met up and i started off by saying how if we were gonna stay together thered be new terms and that the way we do things right now isnt working and is hurting me. i told her somethings might sound unfair or uncomfortable but they are neccessary to us having a happy, honest relationship. i then explained how i was going to order a book and i wanted us to read it together. she said "u might be reading that one alone" i said she would also be 100% honest about everything. that the independent social life was over. that she would give up all passwords to everything. that we would spend a set amount of time together every week. and finally that she would write a letter to anyone that shes ever had feelings for, had sex with, kissed, or has feelings for her. she immediately said "no! im not doing any of that" so i calmly told her "then i need you to move back in with your parents" she said "fine!" i asked her to get out of my car. she got out and i drove off. she tried calling me about 20 mins after that but i ignored the call.

GOOD!!!

IGNORE HER CALLS!

GET HER OUT NOW!

SHE IS STILL A WAYWARD

Sorry for the Caps

But I'm actually excited about what happened...mainly because I knew she was lying HAHAHA! Have you called her parents yet?

Your doing great! Keep it up

Yes ive called her parents. their willing to be an IM but are not able to pick up my WW. but since all her stuff is already packed and in the back of her truck and shes not staying at my house im not too worried about it. hopefully shes goes back to her parents but as the saying goes "u dont gotta go home but u gotta get the hell outta here"

Good for you! I know it's really hard, belive me I know but you have to have boundries or you have no marriage. It's very hard to go through, when you still have that deep desire for them to just wake up and act like the person you exspect them to be.

My perdiction.... She will soon start freaking out that she's cut off from you, she is used to you being there loving her when it's convinent. She might do dramatic things, say horable or very loving things, anything to make sure you are still there living her.... Don't get sucked in...

Dark plan B is the only hope you have.... Maybe she will come around, but even if she doesn't plan B helps YOU be pertected from her craziness and daily disapointment...

It's important for you to at least deal with the fact that a reconsiliation may not happen. BS's who don't face this have a hard time sticking to plan B and following through when a D is a healthy choice. Remember you are just asking for resonable things to insure a healthy safe marriage for the two of you, that's all, you can't talk with her until she agrees... When you look at it like that it makes total sence. The door is closed, she has the key, if she chooses to unlock the door then your there.

Update?

YA...anything happen over the weekend?

Well I took some time over the weekend to get the house to my liking now that all her stuff is gone, I pretty much turned it into my man cave =]. I also started playing guitar again now that i have more free time. sunday I called her letting her know she left a few items and that she could stop by and pick them up. she told me that she was going to be heading out for her parents house this thursday. She asked me why i was acting like i didnt want her there, and i told her I dont want anything to do with her until shes willing to do whats necessary to ensure we have an open honest relationship. Then she told me the terms I told her about were rediculous and that I said she couldnt talk to pretty much anyone, and i told her thats not even close, i said that she could be in NC with anyone that shes been with or may have feelings for, and if she wanted to continue being friends with people of the other sex i would have to be present when their together and that our "independent social time" was over for now. She didnt really have much of anything to say after that then a few minutes later she started trying to explain more of what happened and why ( i think she was feeling guilty) she pretty much told me the same stuff though just with more details, she told me that everytime she was unfaithful she was not living with me and was trying to get over me. She said she felt like she needed to get a divorce and find a "nice boyfriend" but every guy she was with just let her down. I told her I am willing to be the person she wants to be with she just has to change her ways so we can have an honest relationship where shes not hurting me all the time. She acknowledged what I said and told me she wants us to be together and happy too but she feels like she still needs to move back home for a while and straighten herself out. I agreed thatd be best. Then she told me that she didnt want us to not talk while she was there, she said "how are we ever going to work stuff out if you wont talk to me while im gone" I didnt really have an answer to that but i just told her i need to protect myself incase she never comes back. She looked upset and asked me again if we could please talk while she was at home. I told her I would not be calling her but she could call me whenever.
Was that wrong, should I have even let her talk to me while she was getting her stuff?

Just cut all ties with this complete mess of a woman. She is not marriage material. Don't talk to her ever again and don't look back. Let the door hit her in the @ss on the way out.

You cannot change this woman. Only she can change herself. Talking to her while she is going through this change (or not going through it if she decides not to) will only destroy your love for her.

Let her know you love her and want to preserve that love. That means no contact while she gets her cranial rectal extraction performed.

Once she gets her head on straight you MAY be interested in reconciliation.

You may not be interested either. She may take YEARS to get straightened out. After divorce it is your choice if you want to wait the years it takes, or you want to move on.

I'll bet you'll want to move on and you know, it's her loss. But these are the consequences of the decisions she has made.

To stick around while she tries to get her life in order will not only kill your love for her, it will hinder her own development. She will only be making the changes for you - not because she in her heart believes they need to be made. She'll constantly be looking for your approval on her changes. She needs to learn right from wrong on her own.

On top of that, if you're around and she's making these changes 'for you' it will only fuel a deep resentment for you. She has to change FOR HERSELF. She has to become marriage material because it is what SHE wants. That realization has to come from within her and motivate an outward change of behavior.

Having you around hinders that, destroys your love for her, puts your life on indefinite hold while you wait for an abusive woman who may never change.

No contact would be best.

^Agrees!!

Is that absolute no contact except through a mediator of your choice until she agrees to meet the boundaries set forth in your Plan-B letter, and commit herself to marital recovery?

A single word answer is what I'm looking for?

Yes or No?

Had you already given her a Plan-B letter stating that there will be no contact except through a mediator of your choice until she agrees to meet the boundaries set forth in your Plan-B letter, and commit herself to marital recovery?

Yes or No?

If you did, your Plan-B letter holds absolutely no weight with her now at all. And unfortunately, you look weak to her because you where unable to stand by your own words put forth in said Plan-B letter.

A strong man stands by his word.

What kind of man makes a strong statement and commits himself to a plan of action but then fails to follow through?

yes NC means NO CONTACT!

So don't do this again, just help yourself right now, don't worry about her any longer, plan B is not for them, it is for YOU ONLY

If your in PB your in PB. Plan B where you talk to them if they call is plan Fail.

She is making up reasons to try to talk to you. She is missing the needs you were providing. If she misses them enough she may want to come back under your EPs.

I know its hard but let the phone ring. Do things on your terms. Fix yourself and prepare to move on. There is life out there. Plan D closes a door but alot of them open. Once you get farther along you will stop trying to believe this and truelly know this.

I know it sounds mean or uncaring no contact when the ws is reaching out. But everything said is true. You are in a tuff sitch... Very very similar to my beginings. You are allready being to compashionate, she's banking on you being the reasonable one.

Listen you have to cut her off and see what happens. It's going to take awhile for her to face this and sort it out enough for your satisfaction. I know your prob confused, because the goal is reconciliation and we are saying don't talk to her. But, it's because it's one of many minipulations to come, she will tell you what you want to hear and it will sound like your old wife and you will want to belive. She is not the person you knew, but she is going to want to make sure she has tabes on you and your life, making sure you aren't moving on... That may or may not mean anything encouraging, so don't put to much hope into that.

Listen I'd really like to see you guys make it, I don't want to see you shoot yourself in the foot. Your mental health above all else is most important to save. And yes we've been there, heard the same "logic" you did, so my h didn't loose me in his life even when we were seperated. That benifited only him. The way to see if you can work things out is cut her off from you and see what personal changes she makes on her own volition. It's not about talking out your problems right now, it's about her fixing herself, facing herself. And you letting that happen and you moving forward in your life while leaving the door open just in case she gets her [censored] together.

Listen FYI if you don't do these things you will be minipulated, affair bull is the most perdictiable behavior. You could have a false recovery or many falce recoverys, depending on how strong you are. Ws's have a amazing ability to say what you need, they'll try for a second then start to resent you and your back at square one. The ones that aren't imediatly remorceful are hard to deal with. Your dealing with a big offender who doesn't take you or your marriage seriously.

What's the harm in talking? You have no idea, wish I could give you a play by play.

Update never?

Hope things are going good in plan B

Well today she moved back to WI with her parents, I have alot of mixed feelings but I almost feel like filing for D and moving on. With that said, the past few days ive been talking to someone new, i wasnt planning on it but she kinda just came into my life, I kind of feel guilty because i was set on making it work and now I feel like saying forget it, but maybe its a good thing? anyone think talking to this new girl is a good or bad idea?

NOOO!!!!!!!!!!

THAT IS WRONG!!

STOP IT NOW!!

You are still married, even though your wife did that to you, you have no right to do it back!

Stop thinking like a wayward, and finish this before you mess it up even more!

DO NOT DATE! DO NOT TALK TO ANOTHER WOMAN!

Wait till the divorce is final!

A cautionary tale for you n_a

Please read through to the end.

It's a bad idea to date before the divorce is final, and neither of you have even filed yet.

File, divorce, then date till your heart is content.

Well, let's put it this way. Do you want to commit adultery? Would you like to join the ranks of brain sucked out wayturds? No? Then you don't date until you are DIVORCED. You have read the stats. This "relationship" would be DOOMED.

Run RUN RUN. Don't WALK from this "girl" you need to RUN away.

So if you want to Divorce her then file the paperwork tomorrow....don't just start dating to "see" if you can find someone else, that is WRONG!

Tell this woman, that you need to stop talking to her until AFTER the divorce is final, can you do that?

Yea, i know, i pushed her away at first, then i went along with it. My WW is back with her parents now and the divorce papers are signed and mailed to her for a signature and then she agreed to take them into the county clerk and file them, and then in 4 months the divorce will be final. I told the OW that I am still married and we cant let it go anywhere until the D is final. The other woman wants to continue to talk and then when the D is final she wants to date... I didnt know how to answer her

Just tell her, that you have a lot of stuff on your plate right now, and you don't want to start a relationship just yet...or how about this...

Tell her the truth!

You are still a married man, even if you did sign the papers, you will still be married till it is final, its like being engaged until you hit that alter and say "I DO" same concept.

This young woman knows that you are still married, yet watnts to keep "talking" to you?

I'd say that you need to steer clear of her. She doesn't have a clue, nor does she appear to ahve any respect for marriage.

I've heard someone say that it's not a good idea to date anyone who would not make a good spouse, because you might fall in love with that person and set yourself up for a world of hurt. You've already been hurt by a young woman who seems to have looked at marriage as a means of getting out of her parents' house so she can do what she wants, only to find that that pesky person who is her husband actually wanted her to be a wife.

Don't go looking for more pain.

You're young. Work on yourself and think about what you really want in a wife and out of life. THEN, after your divorce is final and you know what you want, you can start dating.

I don't think this gal is what you need in your life.

I agree....even if you signed the papers, still you are married, do you honestly want to get in the same boat you were in with your other wife?

Find a woman who respects marriages, not woman who find broken men to fix, when their marriage is falling apart.

RUN don't walk, away from this OW.

When she first started talking to me she thought I was already divorced, a mutual friend told her I was divorced, when i told her that she did pause and asked more about the situation and she doesnt want to date until its final. I mean I know it'll be an EM if we continue to talk, but at the same time I feel its acceptable in my case especially once the papers are filed and it is a "no fault" state.

Married is married until the judge signs off on the paperwork.

It would not be fair to either of you to "talk" until after the divorce is final. That is how affairs start. Don't go down that slippery slope, especially since you are very vulnerable right now.

You need a little time to recover from your marriage.

Never you really need to listen, I know you signed the papers, I know its a "no fault" state, but either way you are still married, till is is said and done.

Even after the divorce you need to not date right away, that is something really hard that anyone can endure.

Right now you are not thinking straight, don't fall for the first girl that gives you attention. It will only make things worse for the divorce.

Has your wife got the papers yet? Have you talked with her? What if she wants to reconcile? You have already screwed up if you keep talking to this OW. You do not know what the outcome will be, so don't start anything until it is final.

PLEASE! Trust us...you will regret it in the long run, you have already gone this far...do you really want to quit and start dating?

A smart man would wait.

So just do that, this OW will understand, just tell her if she is still interested after 5 months then you will call her and see if there is anything there.

Some people, including myself, love projects, especially projects to help fix people. I suspect this woman may view you as a project. You are someone who is hurting that needs help, and I get the vibe that she wants to help you through your post divorce, but what happens after her project is over?

That is only one hypothetical case of the dangers of getting involved before you have repaired yourself. Yeah your young, but take a relationship time out before getting involved with another woman. Get the divorce, fix yourself, then look for a woman who exzudes the characteristics of a person who will build an affair proof marriage.

Besides bouncing back from a divorce into another womans arms makes you look needy.

Never,

How are things? any update?

well its been almost a month since i updated and im back for advice. I didnt take the advice I was given and had a relationship with OW while she was great and filled all my ENs certain things kind of annoyed me and then one day I just felt terrible and depressed and i missed my wife like crazy. my WW found out about the OW and said she was upset but was happy i was happy. Me and my WW started kind of talking again and next thing you know the feeling of love was back for her. She told me that she still loves me but knows we dont work so she just wants to be friends for now, i agreed and said we needed some time apart. I broke it off with OW shortly after, not to get back with my WW but because i realized i need some time off and focus on me for a while. I feel like im one of the worst MB members on the planet I didnt follow anyones advice and deffinately should of.
Well now what? WW is moved back in with her parents 1000 miles away OW is gone. Do I go back into a dark plan B or just continue to talk to her and build our love back and see where it goes?

Does it matter what we say? You didn't follow our advice before.

sugarcane, have you even read the whole post from page one, i followed all the advice except for on thing.. thanks for the help though

But that one thing was what I was referring to.

You were also advised to run far away from this 20 year-old serial cheater.

Grow up. You just committed adultery after joining a marriage forum. I have been posting to you since day one, and I second sugarcane, so get over it. Continue with your divorce and avoid other women until the ink is dry on it. No more advice for you because that's all you need (and you probably still won't listen to it).

You have no clue what it means to be married. None. Divorce. don't date til it's final. In the mean time buy and read I Promise You and Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders.

That's all I got for you.

sigh...I told you to stay away from that OW! I would get on everyday to see if you listened to me, after day 15 I guessed what you have done...and I WAS RIGHT!!

You do not have a relationship with your wife, she does not want to be married anymore she just wants to date and have fun, stay in dark plan B or get a divorce, if you won't do either of those then at least I can say "I tried." Your life will not be easy if you are not in a dark plan B or end up divorcing your wife, it will be the same until you do something about it.

What is your decision? I haven't been on for two weeks because I have been out of town, and the last time you posted was last week so I'm not even sure you'll get back on...oh-well.


Sorry that you didn't listen.

and GOOD LUCK!

well its been a looong time since i updated and pissed alot of people off on my last couple posts. But since then i ended all contacts with OW about 2 weeks after we started dating and went into no contact with my wife. I served her the divorce papers about a week ago. Ive just been keeping busy with work and doing some home projects and the pain and guilt seemed to fade a good amount, i also got on some zoloft to help with anxiety and depression. A few weeks ago I sent my WW a bouquet of flowers asking her to come home she called and thanked me for the flowers and told me her boyfriend almost dumped her because he doesnt think shes over me. So i asked her if she was over me and she said shell always love me but we just dont work. So I asked her if she was happy with her boyfriend and she said yes so thats when i told her i was happy for her went into no contact and sent out the final divorce papers to her.

Finally! Get a divorce and wait on the dating scene, I think you need time to fix yourself before jumping into a relationship.

Yea i deffinately agree. The couple weeks i dated was just awkward. So if anything good comes from that hopefully someone will read this and decide not to have a" rebound" while still married. It just made me miss my wife more. I still miss her alot and i know if she came to my house right now wanting me back i would give in in a split second. I still have this thought in my head that in a few months shell realize that her new boyfriend isn't right for her and wants to come back to me, but i know realistically that wont happen but hopefully by then im just over her completely. Im just rambling drunk right now lol

Just remember to focus on you for a bit, nothing else. Not your wife, and definitely not other woman.

You married a woman who is immature and has no good moral compass. What you will get with a woman like this over the long term....is total 100% lifetime heartache.

If you continue to stay married to her, you will find she continues to blatently cheat on you, she lives off your money and wont work, then, she gets pregnant when she boinks one or more other men, then you have to raise the other man's baby, then you have to deal with more and more of this for the rest of your short and precious life.

Please please please see the value of your self. You are worthy. And you should learn to love yourself enough to get rid of this extremely toxic woman and make sure you never ever meet or date a woman that bad again.

Why do you think this woman would make a good wife for you? Do you still think there is hope after her terrible behavior for the length of your short marriage?

Bubbles I have thought about all these things and I'm 80% sure I'll never get back with her or be with someone like her again. But its easier said than done to just forget about her and move on. It takes time and hurts and yes sometimes i do still have hope that things would work between us, but i know thats just wishful thinking, trust me I am trying to move on and work on myself for a while its just sometimes I get down and miss her. But thank you sometimes its nice to hear someone be blunt about it.

Has she been served the divorce papers yet?

Yes she has. I called her parents and she ended up picking up but she said she still hasn't mailed them back. But im going to be in WI in 2 weeks and that's where im filing so i just told her id pick them up in person