My story is so weird that I am not sure if anyone will even understand it. I found this web site this afternoon and have been reading for hours. Much of it made a lot of sense to me. I've talked about what really happened in my relationship very little with anyone. I finally told me doctor and talked to him about it a bit last year, but didn't figure anything out. I also told one male friend about what happened. I broke down at Christmas this past year and told my family some of the story.

I am not sure what everyone at this forum will think of me or my situation, but I guess I'll see.

I started dating a girl, lets call her K for this conversation. I started dating K in 2001. Within a year we got engaged and moved in together. We started planning a wedding, but the planning got interrupted. We got along well, enjoyed each other and talked about our future. Sometime around a year, year and a half after we met, K started to abuse alcohol. K started to go on nightly drinking binges, she would verbally abuse me and would hit me.

The stress of that along with stress from a extremely high stress career led me to be diagnosed with depression and a severe anxiety disorder. This was around 2003. Sometime during this same year, when K was drinking so heavily, I spent some time with a girl I had been friends with for a number of years. On one occasion, I had some intimate contact with this other girl (I have broken off all contact with this girl. I always felt the need to be completely open and honest with K, so I told her about what happened a few days later. She reacted poorly, but stayed with me. My health continued to decline, I underwent many medications trials and changes in 2004. K continued to drink and we fought constantly. I desperately wanted the relationship to work and for us to still get married. She moved out at the end of 2004 just before Christmas. I didn't see or hear from her for about 3 weeks. Then in January, she started coming back to my house and hanging out again, being a bit more calm and drinking a bit less. She told me that she had seen a guy a couple times while we were apart.

In 2005 I expressed my ongoing desire to make our relationship work. She saw me frequently, several days a week for most of the year. She was wishy washy about what our future would be and told me that she was still seeing this other guy at times. For about a month at the end of 2005 she told me she was leaving to be with this other guy, I still wanted our relationship to work, but she said she was not coming back. Trying to move on, even though I didn't want to, I dated a girl for a couple weeks, then never saw her again. K came back within a few weeks of leaving, I expressed my ongoing desire for a relationship and to get married. In 2006 I moved, she stayed involved with me, helped me move, setup the new home together, basically acting and living like any married couple would. We had our ups and downs, but I really wanted the relationship to work and wanted to be able to get married.

In 2007, I suspected that she had seen this other guy a couple times and lied to me about it. It could not have been many times because she spent most of her time with me. She finally admitted to seeing him but said it was nothing.

For the sake of wanting our relationship to work, I stopped trying to figure out if she was seeing this guy and stopped really questioning her when I thought she was lying. She still never wanted to get married, but did not get into any details or want to discuss it. Though she continued to live with me.

In summer of 2008, (keep in mind she is still living with me, home with me every night of the year with the exception of one or two nights that she said she was working) I was frustrated with her avoidance of the marriage issue and suspected she was lying about not seeing this other guy when I thought she had. I started looking at some things in 2008 to find out if she was being honest with me. To my horror, I found out that she had gotten married to this guy she had dated back in spring of 2007. She was married to this guy and hide it from me for over a year, living with me the entire time.

I confronted her, and the only thing she has really ever said is that she got engaged to this guy back when we were apart, and they planned the wedding, she didn't want to disappoint her family, she she went through with the wedding. She said that she had planned to leave me when she got married, but she could not do it, and that is why she never left.

Since I found out, just under 2 years ago, we have had hundreds of conversations about her getting a divorce so we can be married. She refuses, just saying she can't do it. I only know of 1 time she saw this guy she is married to in the last 2 years.

She says she wants our relationship to work, and she is still here, comes home every night. But not only does she absolutely refuse to get a divorce from this guy, she doesn't even she why it is a problem. She will say, I don't see why it matters. I don't see why this bothers you. I don't see what difference it makes. She says that she has never been intimate with the guy she married.

After 2 years of these conversations and such, it is hard for me to even feel angry anymore. I don't know what to feel. I want to cry.

She continues to live me with and I want our relationship to work. I want to recover our friendship and relationship. She says she wants to be happy and have a nice life together, but also says that she can't get a divorce. I think part of that might be that she has a strict catholic family.

I really want to work on our relationship, I thought the things I read on this site today were great. I have a hard time, at times putting more and more effort into this relationship (even though I want it to work) when she won't get a divorce from this other guy(and doesn't even seem to want to).

I don't know what to think anymore or what to feel anymore. I went to a doctor and talked about this in detail and we could not figure out anything that helped me communicate with and get through to K about these issues(her being married to other guy).

I still feel betrayed and don't know how much I can trust her. But I want to recover from it and want to trust her again.

J

Welcome to MB, JIm.

You seem to know already what the problem is. If she will not divorce this man and marry you, you will never be able to marry her.

She is married and you are committing adultery with her. Her faith sees divorce as a sin, but I'm pretty sure it sees adultery as one, too. How is she able to live with that? Why does she think that her marriage and adultery do not matter? Does your adultery matter to your own faith?

What does her H think of the fact that his wife has never lived him and is living with someone else? Where does he appear to think this marriage is going? If she married him only because of family pressure, why did he marry her? Did he get angry when he realised that she had no intention of living with him as husband and wife? Does he ever contact her? Does he want her to move in, or does he want the annulment that he is entitled to?

What do her parents think of what she did by sham-marrying this man? Did they put up the money for the wedding? Are they still on speaking terms with her now that she is living with you?

Did she and her husband have a place to live once married? What happened to it? Does either of them have any assets? Did he (or she!) need a Green Card?

Why did you talk to your doctor about her being married to someone else? Did you think there was a medical issue involved?

This is a very odd story. Please help us to understand it.

Lots of good questions.....here is another one.....do you have no relationship with her family at all that would allow you to be kept in the dark about this for so many years?

Very strange.

ok, the problem is not that you can't communicate. You have communicated your wishes. She has rejected them.

The basic issue is that she is not marriage material, has no respect for marriage, and will do nothing but bring more heartache into your life. There is no future in this relationship unless she makes a dramatic change. And she has no reason to make any changes.

I think you are wasting your time trying to get some kind of committment from a person who does not make committments and does not value marriage in the least. Surely you can see this.

One can only hope you don't have children together and bring an innocent child into this mess.

Hello;

Her faith does not seem to be important to her any more. I think it is just a matter of what her family thinks of her.

I am not very religious myself, as you can tell the entire situation is very upsetting to me, and I was left in the dark for a year and a half about her being married, while we continued to live together like nothing was different. Once I found out, she made ongoing promised that she would get a divorce for a long time, but then finally in this past year or so said that she will not do it, but that she wanted to continue to me with me.

I have no idea what he thinks. Yes he has a house. He is MUCH older than her, he is 40 something in the military, but has not in out of the country for the past couple years as far as I know. K is 28, I am 31.

I don't look though who calls her cell phone, but as far as I know they are not speaking. I never see any personal e-mails from him to her on the computer.

Bottom line, I have no idea what her H thinks about all this and I am not sure she does either. My best understanding is that she feels like she made a mistake with the whole thing, but due to her family was unable to undue it.

It has been too long for her to be able to get a legal annulment.

I do not know what her parents think. She has kept me separated from her family. She told me that her parents were upset and didn't really like me after our break up in 2004 and it was best I just avoided them. Though I tried numerous times to get her to allow me to reconnect with her family.

Her family is fully aware of what happened, I e-mailed them and told them, now it is possible they would not believe the email, but, unless she has elaborate lies going with them or they totally have there heads in the sand, they would have been able to figure out that she is with me. Plus, I heard her on the phone last year tell her parents that she wanted to be with me and that she wanted a divorce. So I know they know.

I don't know the details of any financials of the wedding, other than she told me it was not elaborate and there was no reception, other than a small gathering at her parents home.

I remember the day, (that I later learned was the day of her wedding) I remember it because, she was gone over night so infrequently that it stood out in my mind. She left in the morning telling me she was going into work. Called me around 5 told me she had to work the over night shift (very realistic she is in health care). Was home in the AM.

She has lived here her whole life, since this guy she married is in the US military, I have to assume he is a full citizen.

As far as I can tell, much of her relationship with her parents have become don't ask, don't tell. I think they pretend she is with her H, even though they know she isn't.

She has no significant assets. Back in 2004 K & I were in business together and lost several hundred thousand. I am sure her H does as he has been a career military person. H still owns the house as far as I know. This is a Joint marital property state, so she technically owns half of it.

As I had mentioned previously, I became quite ill around 2004 - 2005 and developed a severe anxiety disorder along with other physical health problems which have required ongoing medical care. I am legally disabled due to my health. The medical issue involved centered around my depression, anxiety and related disorders.

Thanks
J

Thought I have tried numerous times to establish contact with her family, via K, by asking to be included in family events and such. I have been excluded, with constant excuses.
Other than sending them an email telling them that she is living with me that I didn't get a response to, My anxiety has prevented me from having any more direct confrontational approach with them.

I wanted to believe so badly that K was being honest with me, that many times when I was suspicious of things, I just didn't push it.

I do truly believe that she would take it all back if she could and would not have gotten married to him. However, I think what is preventing her from getting a divorce is that she is very centered on what per parents think and she wants approval from them for a divorce.

J

Or, she doesn't want a divorce at all and is only telling you want you want to hear.

No I have been careful to ensure that we have no children.

"The basic issue is that she is not marriage material, has no respect for marriage, and will do nothing but bring more heartache into your life. There is no future in this relationship unless she makes a dramatic change. And she has no reason to make any changes."

This is a very sad, but I fear may be a very accurate assessment.

She knows that I am rather dependent on her, we have a bit of role reversal going due to my illness. She works and I take care of the home. So I have far more to loose than her if she leaves.

My financial dependence on her due to my health makes it extremely difficult for me to leave from a financial standpoint.

I guess I have some big delusion that this is just one big mistake she made and one day she will realize it and apologize and fix things.

J

"Or, she doesn't want a divorce at all and is only telling you want you want to hear."

I have a strong feeling that if her parents were not alive that she would feel differently about the divorce. She seems to care more about what they think of her than what she cares about me and our life together.

Maybe her perspective on whats important will change a little bit. Her mom almost died this week. Her mom was on vacation and suddenly got a lung infection and has been in ICU for 6 days on the other side of the country.

I want to believe so badly that she really wants to work this out and that she just doesn't know how to deal with it.

J

Jim, the problem is not her, but your lack of judgment and inability to accept reality. Here is what you are pursuing as a wife:

• Sometime around a year, year and a half after we met, K started to abuse alcohol.
  
  
• K started to go on nightly drinking binges, she would verbally abuse me and would hit me.
  
  
• K continued to drink and we fought constantly.
  
  
• about a month at the end of 2005 she told me she was leaving to be with this other guy, I still wanted our relationship to work, but she said she was not coming back
  
  
• In 2007, I suspected that she had seen this other guy a couple times and lied to me about it. It could not have been many times because she spent most of her time with me. She finally admitted to seeing him but said it was nothing.
  
  
• To my horror, I found out that she had gotten married to this guy she had dated back in spring of 2007. She was married to this guy and hide it from me for over a year, living with me the entire time.
  
  
• But not only does she absolutely refuse to get a divorce from this guy, she doesn't even she why it is a problem.

Surely, you can see that this is not marriage material. She would have no more respect for a marriage with you than she does with her current "husband." Why would any sane person choose to pursue a life with a woman who lies, cheats and has no respect for marriage and fidelity? It is also very likely that she is an alcoholic.

This is a very strange relationship because it is clear that she has a long history of abusing you yet you come back for more. I don't know what you get out of such a relationship, but it is most certainly not love.

Jim-

Your "sweetheart" is MARRIED. That's the truth. You are living with someone who is MARRIED to someone else.

What is your illness? Do you have any income? What about your parents? Where are they in all this?

I wonder if I could get her interested in this MB program and work through the program with me.

If we could work together to fulfill each others most important emotional needs:
Affection
Sexual Fulfillment
Conversation
Recreational Companionship
Honesty and Openness
Physical Attractiveness
Financial Support
Domestic Support
Family Commitment
Admiration

Then maybe things would be different.

I love her and wish we could have a nice life together.

If she doesn't want to have a life with me, then why is she here? Why doesn't she leave to be with her H? When I ask she says she loves me cares about me and doesn't want to hurt me.

J

Uhm, you can't work the MB program with your AFFAIR PARTNER.

MB works between spouses, not a married woman and her affair partner.

FJim-


Your OW is cake-eating. She is getting you to meet some of her needs, and letting her Betrayed Husband (BH) meet the others. She is playing both of you.

Sorry...you cannot recover a relationship with someone who is MARRIED to another person. It won't work.

But she is married to someone else, though. She is another man's wife. Marriage Builders is for marriages, not affairs. If you cared about her you would encourage her to go to her husband and leave her alone.

I have an autoimmune disorder that limits me physically, including Asthma, which I have to take immune suppressive drugs for and steroids for at times. I also have debilitating migraines several times a month - likely related to my autoimmune condition. I developed highly treatment resistant depression that has never gone away. I have generalized anxiety disorder as well as obsessive compulsive disorder. I also have always had difficulty with interpersonal relationships due to high functioning autism.

I have limited income from disability. I have around $20,000 a year in medications, which insurance helps a lot with, but there are still expenses. I have additional medical costs on top of that. I see my doctor when I can for therapy, but insurance imposes many limits on mental health care coverage.

My parents are very supportive, but there are limited to what they can due because of their own situation. My parents have provided a very nice home that they allow me to live in, but I still have to cover utilities, taxes, etc, which pretty much wipe out the disability income I get. My father doesn't work much due to his own health, and my mom is going to be off work for months for the second time in a year, now for a major joint replacement.

J

Don't know what to say. I was deceived into this. I didn't start an affair. I've been with her ongoing from before the marriage and after, with me not finding out about it until a year and a half later. She is the one that snuck out and married this guy that she has no real relationship with.

I desperately want to fix our relationship so she can get the strength to get the divorce done and un due her mistake.

J

Jim, but you know NOW that she is married to someone else so you can't claim you are deceived any longer. The truth is that she is married to someone else.

She has plenty of "strength" to get a divorce. It takes no strength to get a divorce. The issue is that she doesn't want to get a divorce and you won't accept that.

She is a married woman, Jim. No one here is going to help you pursue a relationship with a married woman.

I am looking for solutions so I can help her get or want to get the divorce so we can fix our relation ship.

I'm sorry. I am desperate for help and support that I can not find anywhere.

I guess this was the wrong place for me to come because it doesn't some like you understand the place I am in or it is not in like with something you want to help with.

I am just desperate and very nearing the end of what I can handle.

I'm out of options with doctors and therapists _I've seen the ones I can see with my insurance coverage.

I may just be at the point in my life where I have to consider giving up, there is only so much one person can handle.

I feel so alone. I feel that no one understands what I am going through.

What do I do, kick her out? I know that I literly will not survive.

J

I had the bad feeling no one would understand.

I don't mean to be overly dramatic, but I feel I am backed into a corner and have no other options to stop this pain if this relationship cant be made to work.

Thanks

So if I can convince her to file for a legal separation then can you help me work on our relationship???

j

I would count your blessings you learned about her capacity for deceit before you married and had children.

She has "secret second life" to a pretty extreme degree...which means she will likely always hold secrets from you... Have you read the Basic Concepts? She most likely be unable/unwilling to follow the POJA/PORH which = unhappy marriage. Good candidate for an affair if you were to ever marry her.

Run run run. I know you don't want to hear it but you need to look at the big picture.

I've always been rather naive with social interaction, being blindly trusting of people.

Still years later after these things happen, I still am in a state of disbelief.

I have a horrible time accepting it all. Due to the timing of my illness and when she left me back in 2004 being at the same time. I feel as though my illness drove her away. I know I was not the most loving person even when I became ill.

I guess I am rather stupid and foolish, just looking at this from a simplistic point of view. I love this girl and do anything for her.

Yes;
The Policy of Joint Agreement: From day one I have always made her a part of all my plans, discussing even simple every day decisions with her. I've always felt this was important. I always worked very hard to give and come to compromises that were acceptable to both of us. I made much of the agreement easy, and I didn't mind, it was joint in my mind even though I did give up things, it was fine.
My work when we first met was too stressful, too demanding, and most of all too time consuming. I left the work to have more time with her. I started a company together with her, so we could work together. I really don't have other friends to any extent, I have one male friend that lives about 1500 miles away that I talk to about once a month on the phone. My old male neighbor I talk to a couple times a year. That's about it. K is everything to me, I've always wanted to focus all of my time, effort, love, attention and affection of her. I've wanted her to be involved in every aspect of my life, I've always wanted her to be my recreational companion. I don't go golfing or hang out with the boys. It's all about her.

The Policy of Radical Honesty: I've made her my world sine shortly after we met, completely discontinuing my long term friendship with that other girl, as I knew it was going to inter fear in our relationship. Never keeping that or any other secrets from her.

She has also always had my complete and total honesty, never keeping anything from her.

I guess part of the reason that I have never felt like I was having an affair even once I found out she was married is because I remained completely devoted / committed, honest, open, etc. with her. Even when I found out about it, that same day, I told her, I love you, it is okay, we will figure this out, we will get through this together, and that is when I first got the response from her that she would get a divorce and what she did was a mistake. After marriage, she never spent time with this guy or consummated the marriage, from what she told me, and I do believe her about this. I feel like the marriage is on paper only.

A also am skeptical at this point if she would be able to follow POJA/PORH.

Not only do I love her and am attached to her, I am also dependent on her due to my disability, which makes it extremely difficult to in vision being without her. It also makes it extremely difficult for me to ever see myself building a life with someone else.

In the first couple years I knew here, I would have said she would have had no problem with POJA/PORH. Then something with her changed around that time I got sick. I don't know if it was me or if it was her drinking and Alcohol abuse or what, but something changed that has never gone back to the same again.

I should run, but I have no where to run to and no one to run to, and with being disabled, running from her is even harder, she is the income earner. She is my life and I have always wanted her to be my wife.

If that (being my wife) isn't what she wants (which I guess it isn't since she has not gotten the divorce) I can't understand why she choose to spend her life with me and to come home to me every night.

I would do anything to get back the wonderful devoted girl I met 9 years or so ago and to have her as my wife.

I hope I don't seem like too horrible of a person for staying with her even after I found out about her marriage. I lover her, and I am just devoted to her and have always been willing to do what ever it takes to make our relationship work.

J

Her H is clearly not someone she cares about or desires to have a relationship with. I think it all comes down to family pressure that drove that married to happen.

What good does it do to encourage her to go be with someone she does not care about?

J

How can I help her be okay with her family with getting the divorce done?

J

Jim,
you came to us for advice, so please listen.

You have no future with this woman. She has alcohol problems and has no problem keeping big secrets from you-like her marriage to another man! Additionally, she left you during a bad time in your life and even though she's technically "back", she REFUSES to commit completely to you. She's put you in the position of being the Other Man (OM) to a married woman, and REFUSES to change that situation in ANY way.

Jim, you really have no other choice but to toss her out. What else CAN you do? You can't MAKE her divorce her husband, and she's clearly prepared to let you be the OM for many years to come. Is that what you REALLY want? I'm guessing not or you wouldn't be here.

You came here for advice to make/convince her to get that divorce, but I seriously doubt there's anything we can tell you that would do that, because despite what she says, YOUR FEELINGS AND OPINION ABOUT THIS SITUATION DO NOT MATTER TO HER!! If they did, she would have gotten that divorce long before now.

There is really only one thing you can do here. Dump her. Kick her to the curb before, God forbid, you end up getting her pregnant and bring a child into this mess. It may not seem like it right now, but you WILL survive without her and you WILL ultimately be better off with her gone.

The girl you knew 9 years ago is GONE, and there's no getting her back. She has changed for the worse, and the person she is now is completely undeserving of your devotion. Don't waste more years of your life with her, she is NOT worth it.

Hi Jim,

I am hardly ever up this late but it is storming now so woke up. Stopped here to look and saw your post.

Jim, you seem like a decent person. Along with the others here I can sympathize with your situtaion. By the time you found out she was married you were already emotionally involved with her. She deceived you for a year.

However, that was two years ago. Jim, the reality is that the people here Do in fact understand your situation. But, this IS a marriage building site and she Is married to another
for what ever reason. The people here are committed to marriage and are committed to the fact that marriage is an exclusive relationship between the two spouses. Therefore, if anyone here was to advise you on how to fix your 'realtionship' with K, they would in effect be assisting you in breaking up her current M. I would be astounded if anyone here would violate their principals and do that. Jim, the issure or question of divorce is the exclusive property of K and her current H to the exclusion of all others. While I can understand your feelings, I hope you respect this stance.

In addition Jim, I feel that the support issue may also be influencing you to some extent. That should not be the case. You certainly can make it on your own. You are a young guy. There are plenty of single women in your area of the world to choose from, and the vast majority of them would not have the issues that this other man's wife has.

The bottom line is Jim, you need to stop trying to apply MB concepts. You need to begin working on letting this woman go and letting her deal with Her marriage in her own way. I am sure you would find plenty of support here for this. If K decides on her own accord and w/o your influence to divorce her H, and then after an appropriate time wants to reunite with you - Great!

Best Regards.
Tom

Jim, by any chance, does SHE have high-functioning autism, too?

She is not living her life the way people usually do.

Jim,

You seem to be saying that due to your medical problems (and ensuing financial problems), you cannot leave her. I wonder if, instead of alleviating your problems, being with her for the past 9 years has not aggravated your problems. Maybe you will find that, without her, your anxiety attacks and depression etc may diminish.
It sounds like you have lived in a very stressful situation most of your adult life.
Maybe it's time to take control, scary as that might be.

Tully

(t/j - Sugar, I've sent you an email...)

The same could be said about you... you are clearly not someone she cares about or desires to have a relationship with.

She is living a double life...and you just happened to find out about it. I would wager that she is telling her H that she is your caregiver (because you have an illness) and that you have HIRED her to spend the nights at your place.

He is probably buying that story just like you are buying the story about the marriage...never consumating it...and not wanting to disppoint her family with a divorce.

She's got ALL you buffaloed.

committed

hello J, I am so sorry that you are here but this is a step in the right direction if you listen carefully and heed the advice given.
I am realtively new to MB and just read your story, one thing that puzzles me is this, have you ever considered contacting H and having a conversation with him? it may very well clear up some issues for you.

I'm sorry I haven't read threw the whole thread because I wanted to get my two cents in before it was too late...


DUMP HER AND KICK HER OUT!!!

She is not even GIRLFRIEND MATERIAL!

I am sorry to be harsh but it is the truth, you can not change her, only you can change yourself, and in order to change your situation that you are in is to GET HER OUT OF YOUR LIFE FOR EVER!!

Find someone that will treat you right, that can be marriage material.

If you try to fix this messed up 28 year old little child then you will NEVER be happy.

SHE WONT EVER CHANGE!

It has been 2 years since you have found out....and what have you accomplished?? Nothing! Because she wont change, do yourself a favor and please get rid of her, and stop supporting another mans broken woman.

I know you desperately want to fix her...but honestly honestly you CAN'T!

Your best bet is to dump her.

Change your phone number, email, etc so she can't come crawling back to you when times are hard. I'm telling you right now, if you keep letting her come back you will never marry, have no kids, and by the time you are 55 it will be too late and you will be a lone. Is that what you want?

I'm sorry again on being so harsh, but it sounds like you are a really nice guy, and you have a married woman living in your home taking advantage of you, get your balls back from her and live a happy life WITH OUT HER!

Trust me we understand your situation, and we are trying to help you, that married woman that is living with you is not worth it, can't you see?

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Jim,

RUN!

Get as far away from this woman as you can get.

Even if she got a divorce and you and she ended up married, what makes you think she will remain faithfully married to you? She didn't "cheat" on you with another man, she married another man and is cheating on him with you.

RUN!

Don't look back!

Get away while you still have a shred of sanity and a grasp on reality. This relationship is TOXIC!

Hello Jim,

I sincerely hope you are feeling at least a little better than you seemed to be last evening. I suspect the reason you are not posting lately is that you have not been receiving the advice you were expecting or hoping to hear. I am not surprised. As far as I am concerned MB is the elite of the legitimate pro-marriage sites on the internet. It is equivalent to what I think the Green Bay Packers are to the NFL. (just my own silly sports analogy here..*s*) There are other legitimate pro-marriage sites as well, but few and far between, and I have no doubt that you will receive similar advice on those sites as well. The downside Jim is that there are mostly likely internet sites and/or individual counselors who are NOT pro-marriage or are NOT at all ethical or legitimate, and would be willing to give you misleading advice that is contrary to what you are receiving here. These sources would be dangerous and harmful to you morally and emotionally. Be careful Jim on what you are searching for.

All that being said, altho I do not know your situation first-hand at all, it strikes me that you appear to be fairly isolated in terms of being able to receive trusted advice and counsel in this matter - just plain simply someone trustworthy to confide in. So, I think you are relying on your own feelings rather than having the luxury and comfort of someone you can trust to 'bounce' your feelings off.

If you think that people on the other end of an electronic connection on the Internet - given that they are true, caring and most importantly legitimte - do not care, then you are just simply wrong Jim. The legitimate ones, and there are so many here, are moral, honest, filled with true life experiences, compassion and caring, honest, and etc. But, they are not going to be dishonest with themselves and their morals to simply tell you what You want to hear.

This leads me to say to you again that for the sake of your emotional and mental health, and for the sake of your spiritual health (and I know you said you are not very religious, but still it is a truth), you need to disengage from this woman who you think of as a 'wife', but who in reality is Not. If you do this, and come back and promise that you are, I will welcome you back with an open mind and open arms.

Jim, I have been a member here for about 5 mos., and back in the 80's I did crisis intervention. Of all the posts and of all of the telephone conversations I have had to do this one to you has been the hardest.

With regards to you and your health,

TOm

I thought about it, but never knew what I would say or what that would accomplish.

J

I think you guys are very likely all correct about everything.

I am honestly pretty emotionally fragile and do not know if I have the ability to do this type of abrupt separation at this point.

Thought you have pointed out the extent of the moral predicament I am in; even though the even larger problem is her and her lying and her deceptive behavior.

I just don't know how to face being alone. I have almost no friends and have devoted myself to K. I don't work because I am disabled, so I have no co-workers and such for support.

But I do hear what your saying about the situation, and it is hitting home that your right. I don't think she will ever change.

I want to be married to someone, someone that loves me as much as I love them. At 31, I am ready to be in that type of fully committed relationship & marriage, I am just having such a hard time letting go of the hope that things will get sorted out with K and that I will achieve that with her. Even though the practical side of me does know your right, and I don't think it will ever happen, no matter what I do.

J

I am starting to realize that perhaps a good part of the reason that I have put up with this stuff from her is because I am so afraid of being alone.

I really fell apart when she left for a while back around 2005 and had to spend time in a hospital program to get through it all.

I realize my emotional difficulties makes this ever harder for me.

I of course do NOT want to live the way I am living it is so wrong in so many ways.

I just had desperately hoped there was still chance at repair. However looked at even the things I wrote and told you about her, makes me realize that I have been trying to repair this for 5 years and it has not worked and likely nothing ever will.


I know this isn't the situation technically, but from an emotional standpoint for me it is; Leaving her is like me having to leave an unfaithful spouse. Something that is I am sure extremely difficult for even an emotionally healthy person.

J

I have no way of ever really knowing if I could really ever trust her again. The trust factor is so damaged that your correct, I would never really know if she was faithful.

J

HI;

No I wanted to have there be a way to work things out, but I guess I wasn't really expecting to hear that. I think a big part of me knew the kind of advice that I was going to get, and it is the kind of advice that I think I need.

I still don't know how I am going to be able to apply the advice and get through it all.

I guess on a logical non-emotional level, I've accepted everything you guys have said, I know it is all true, that she won't change and everything.

I am having a very hard time accepting it on an emotional level and processing it all. Even though I know I need to.

I am feeling very overwhelmed with this whole relationship situation right now. Taking that next step of removing myself from it, is going to be extremely difficult for me - even knowing that it is the best thing for me long term - short term it is very painful.

Thank you for your kind support.

J

Just a shred of sanity left here... Yes, I do see how toxic it has been on my life, and am seeing now that there is no way to fix it.

I used to think I could fix anything given enough time, effort, love and devotion.

J

You are really young to be disabled.....is there any hope you will get better and be more self-sufficient?

Either way you don't need this 'woman' in your life. Ugh. I'd love to know the real deal with her and that husband of hers....and that enabling family of hers....

So weird.

So what have you decided?

Are you going to some how find a way to get away from this toxic woman?

I sure hope so...

Good luck if you haven't decided, I have said all the advice I can give you.