Hey sorry if this confuses people this is marinemom, I had to change my username due to H reading all my posts on here. Which of course gave him a heads up on all my plans.

A link to my story is in my signature line. Topic was the "after 2 yrs.....why now"

Is there a way to bump the old topic to this new name?

H and I went to our first MC appointment today, finally. It went alright, got more outta this lady during the first 40 mins than we ever did with any of the other MC we've gone to which is good. H seemed happy with her approach, which is a first. Of course the MC said it's gonna take alot of hard work on our parts to R but as long as we are both willing to put the effort and time into it. I saw every one of DrH books on her bookshelf which was a good sign (for me at least). We each got "home work" to do separate from eachother and I'm also going to print out the EN worksheets and have us do them again (last done 2 yrs ago when I exposed my A.) I think my EN's priorities have changed some since then so I think we should do them again. I also want to have H do a NC letter to OW.
I know that full NC is unlikely since they still work together but I've talked to Gysgt and he is watching them and keeps C limited if at all and is watching them both so it gives me some piece of mind knowing that it's not like they can carry on the A with gunny watching.

H has his ups and downs with his mood. Sometimes H seems like he really wants to try but at other times he seems like he is ready to throw in the towel. His mood changes drive me insane and tick me off but I'm doing my best to avoid LB and not fight about everything.

Because he is still in contact with the OW, I did this same thing when I was in so called "NC" with the OM, each time I would have contact I would have a set back in the marriage. I would get angry at wheels or be short tempered or I would just be sad and get depressed.

So when you say this then I see it as...

Today I got another twist of the knife in my back.....

H is now located right next to OW office now. Making it that much easier. For a week it'll be like that until the class is over. And the gysgt office is in the other building. AHHHHHHH!

I think you sould tell the officers in charge before they get assigned offices. Perhaps WH or OW requested said office. I'm sure your request will override either of theirs.

H don't have an office, OW does. H is in a squad bay with the students.

I am going to repost this!!

THEY ARE STILL IN THE AFFAIR

I don't know...... I'm trying to give H the benifit of the doubt and wait until next week (tues) when the class ends and see what the verdict is about the transfer and if no than i think i'm gonna go to the command then. I wanted to try it this way first and see if this could work.

It's just every day that H goes to work it's like he twists that knife alittle bit more. The wound won't heal until they are in NC and I know that. If we can't get the transfer without telling than I guess I'll need to tell but I NEED the transfer to be able to R and I know that but I was wanted to try it this way first.

I know you all think I'm crazy for not exposing completely but i did to friends and family and to his company gysgt but i'm trying it this way first and i know it will most likely not work but at least i tried to do it quitely first.

There is no way to do it quietly! NO WAY! IT WILL NOT WORK THIS WAY!

yeah i'm begining to see that.

Then what are going to do about it?

I KNOW you want this to work out. I understand how you feel right now. MOST BSs are AGAINST exposure when they first get here.

You are now starting to realize that COMPLETE FULL NC is NECESSARY to have ANY chance at recovery. Don't creep back into the fog of denial again please. You NEED to do the right thing here.

(((((F4F)))))

If husband refuses to leave his job to establish NC with OW should I stick with plan A or move onto plan B? How long should I stay in plan A? I'm so confused. I really want to work on my M but I get mad about H still working with OW. Do I demand that he leave the job? But wouldn't that be LB. I don't know how I'm supposed to not get mad and upset about H still working with OW. I'm trying to do plan A but I can't help but get mad. I've started meeting H most important need SF. I've been doing my best to meet H needs but at the same time I'm trying to get H to leave his job and I try not to get upset but I can't stop myself and when H says that there isn't anything he can do and that he isn't willing to ruin his career but is trying to leave I get mad. I was told my the end of this class I would have an answer about the transfer (which is tomorrow). If the transfer don't happen what should I do? Which plan do I follow then. H claims all we do is fight but all we fight about is his working with OW and nothing else. I want/ I need him to have NC and that means one of them has to leave that job otherwise I can't start to R.

What do I do? Which plan do I follow?

I've asked H to complete another EN questionaire (last one done 2 yrs ago) and he finally did it but then didn't comment on any of the needs on how to change them or improve them. I made comments on each and every one. It don't seem like H is really trying. I'm trying but how long am I supposed to do it on my own until I just quit trying and give up. If H isn't willing to make the changes needed or follow the MB what else can I do?

The answer to your questions is that you follow Plan A until you enter Plan B or recovery. As long as your WH is working with OW, you treat it as an active affair, because it is.

Don't lose hope. Follow the plans.

So, to answer your question, PLAN A.

Plan A is only for a short time, however. 4-6 weeks for women last time I checked.

After that, you should move to a Plan B, to protect your love for your spouse.

ok I'm trying to be strong but it's hard not to get upset. I'm a very emotionally guided person so it's hard for me to hide my feelings and act happy when I'm really hurting and pissed inside. I'm going to keep trying harder but I don't think I can go thru another class and they pick back up on the 7th. I guess all I can do is keep trying and keep doing what I'm doing. I need to stop getting upset about him working with OW. According to plan A i shouldn't bring up the A at all? Am I understand that right? I should do everything I need to do but without getting upset about H still working with OW right? It's going to be REAL hard but I'm going to try. But I think it'll be a short plan A for me because it's hurts to much to keep this all inside and I've kept alot in already.

Thanks for all the advice and support. I'm trying ot get H to post on here himself but he says that nobody ever replied back to him so he just quit. I don't know but I'll just keep focusing on me I guess.

OK I've entered Plan B. I've asked H to leave until he is willing to truly work on our M and agree to NC. I've talked to legal regarding what H's punishment would be if I exposed. (of course gave no names or information they could use to find out who H is). Was told that H could recover from this career wise since it was early on in his career and since H wasn't a SNCO yet, it would delay promotion for awhile but as long as H was showing improvment and that he learned for the mistake that he would be able to advance in rank later. I know H don't believe me when I tell him that since he has seen it work differntly but that is why I wanted claification on what could happen before I took any action. I want to have all the facts and options infront of me and think it through clear headed and not do something based off of just my emotions.

I know most of you don't agree with my limited exposure but I'm trying to work on a compromise that would work for both H and I. I refuse to do nothing so something has to give on H's side. I've agreed to try limiting the exposure to H co-workers and bosses to prevent any njp or court martial that would cause loss of rank and pay for H but would give me the piece of mind that H is being watched at work and if NC is broken action will be taken otherwise the co-workers would be held liable if they didn't take action.
POJA, this is something I'm willing to try first and see if I can work with it this way. I know you don't agree but as long as H is willing to fully work on this M 100% and not half [censored] it but actually do the work and make the changes to get back what we had than I'm willing to do it this way.

My M means more to me than punishing H for his A. I can forgive the A, I honestly pretty much have in a sense just have that one hurdle to overcome before I can fully forgive him. I need that show of good faith and guarentee that the A is over and NC will happen, even though they might still see eachother in passing (I'll deal with that) as long as I have other ppl watching them and make the A very difficult to continue without H getting into serious trouble. Which I don't think H is willing to risk his career to continue to see OW, it really seems to of been a pure revenge A and nothing else.

If H agrees to do it this way I'll give it another class and see if doing it this way can work for me before I deside anything else.

Compromise builds resentment in a marriage. Limited exposure does no good, and plan B before a full exposure is not recommended. Trying to POJA this situation with a WH will get no where.

This is what I predict: Your WH is off the hook for commiting adultery. His affair will continue. In order not to lose rank, or his AP, he will gaslight you and say "I will do anything you want for our marriage." you will think you accomplish something, but in at least 2 months you will realize he is still at it.

[sarcasm] Glad your WH has received absolutely no punishment for his adultery, and that you wish he not suffer any consiquences of his actions. [/sarcasm]

Your faith is in someone who lied to you and had sexaul relations outside of your marriage, and is most likely still at it.

Ditto!

POJA is never to be used when there is an affair, and most especially in the case of exposure. Exposure is to be done with no forewarning at all. Giving him warning only gives him a chance to pre-empt you by spinning the story. Put the POJA aside until the affair is over and you in recovery.


Secondly, Plan B is a separation. If you are speaking to him you are not in Plan B.

My suggestion would be to learn about Marriage Builders and get a good understanding of the concepts. I don't think you understand this program.

Do you have Surviving an Affair?

Yes I have surviving an affair, HNHN for parents, and LB. I've read the letters. I just asked him to leave last night so i hasn't been that long. I talked to his brother toda to see if BIL talked to H and how H was doing. I know it' not ideal but the fact is that I was able to R from my A and establish NC without exposure without H knowing. I could of kept my A from H forever if I wanted but I choose to expose myself. I was able to do it on my own so why would I not give H that chance? I know what you all are saying, I really do, and I in no means condone what H did and don't think that there shouldn't be something done about it. I know H don't deserve the POJA and all, I just am torn on what to do. I want to save my M but also not lose H due to him resenting me for exposing to command. If this way can work for us I want to try.

I know it's not ideal and it's not guarentee that it will work. I know.
I guess I'm looking at everything that happend. H A was done outta revenge for mine (don't make it ok by any means) but I think I should at least try to give H the same choice to do whats right. To see if H is truely willing to R our M. It will require exposure at work but just on a limited scale. It'll be to his direct co-workers and supervisors just not all the way up to the CO. I think it's better than nothing. It don't need to be brought up that high to get things done. I want to start at the lowest direct level. If you know what I mean. Tell the people that have a direct affect on them working together and can keep them apart. I know again it don't guarentee a thing but it's a start for me at least.

I know 2 wrongs don't make a right and what I did 5 yrs ago is not reason for what H did now, nor should it affect how I handle H's A but it does in a sence I guess. I want to give H the chance. Even though I know I shouldn't I feel I should.

I want to do this as simple as possible without cause alot of trouble. So if we can expose on just a direct level than that's fine. This is just a temporary duty assisment not his actual job so it's not like he'll always be working with her. His tour is almost done here anyway so they will be separated then regardless. In the mean time they are still working on ways to transfer H elsewhere.

No exposure for your affair helped H resent you. Its his fault that the resentment built up to the point of a revenge affair. I will say the revenge affair happened because proper paths were not followed in recovering from your affair.

Think about what may have been if you did expose your affair. How is repeating the same mistake going to be better this time around? Following improper ways to fix a marrige will not fix a marriage.

I know, I'm just scared. I don't want to lose H. I want to work it out and R our M. I'm afraid that exposing to his whole command will cause H to resent me and he'll flat out refuse to work on the M. Again I guess it feel a bit wrong to do to him what he didn't do to me.

If you are afraid to do something that is RIGHT for your marriage then I can't help you, I am tired of trying to let you SEE what you have to do to save your marriage, your not taking any of our advices, you say "I'm listening, I understand, I know" But what are your actions??

You are like a wayward spouse, and I can't help you.

I AM SO DONE WITH THIS THREAD!!

Is there a way for me to make it disappear so I don't have to see it anymore?

This is the basis of why you have not exposed. You fear that exposing him to command will make him resent you and refuse to work on the marriage with you, but you do not know what will really happen. However, if you do nothing, you do not know what will happen. Ahhh...yup been there, done that.

Which situation will you have more control over? Exposing or not exposing? Both have outcomes which we do not know, but you can try to steer one outcome. We fear what we don't know. I personally fear what I don't know, and especially what I can't control. If a situation is somewhat in my control then I fear a little less, but it is still there.

Gave this to another poster who doesn't care that her husband see's the OW at work >.<

You know what? I am going to post this on your thread and the other wayward betrayed spouse (I call them wayward, because they are all talk but no action) who wont take any actions......

I am a FWW, I cheated on my beloved husband that I so adore, and right now we are in our 8 month of recovery, I love him with all my heart! I don't want to take any chances of that being ruined! I love him soo much, my sister while she was visiting me said "you guys act like newly weds now, what are you doing?"

Well for the past 4 months my husband has been mentioning about getting back on facebook for my business only, the first 3 months I told him I was not ready. Well, last month I finally joined again he has all my information, passwords, etc and the only friends that are on my facebook account are family, and all of my clients (which are girls)

One day I was looking at a friends facebook page on wheels and I's family account, and I forgot that he was friends with the 2OM well in one of his comments I saw 2OM when he posted a comment, my heart jumped so high! I was soo terrified, and you know what I thought? "I wonder what he's up to" ALL I HAD TO DO was click on his photo to see what he was up to. When I realized how EASY it was to contact the OM and have those FEELINGS come RIGHT back into my life I was soo scared. I told wheels as soon as he came home, that I saw his profile pix (luckily it wasn't of his face, it was just some random pic) But I bet you if I had saw his face, those feelings would have EASILY came back!! I probably wouldn't be able to get on his page since both accounts are blocked, but still, it doesn't matter.

Now remember I have been in recovery for only 7 months, and if something THAT small can trigger me.....what say you if your husband is seeing this woman everyday at work???

IN ORDER FOR YOU MARRIAGE TO WORK HE HAS TO HAVE NO CONTACT WITH THE OW!

I see what you mean SR. I think I either accidently exposed or OWH found out and exposed, something happend because I got a phone call from H SgtMaj today. I went the other day to legal to ask "what if" questions because like I said I wanted to have all the facts before I made a decison on what to do. I don't know if even though I gave no personal information or nothing that would point to H but they somehow either did some asking around or something and I got a phone call this morning asking me questions about everything.

Plus H come to my job today while I was on the phone with the SgtMaj and I guess OW came up to him today asking if I would be willing to meet up with her to talk. TALK ABOUT WHAT? I'm kinda curious to see WTF she wants but I don't know if I could be relaxed enough to do it.

But right now it's trying to do damage control. Like I said I'm not sure how they figured out who I was and all or if someone else came forward also but they seem to know now.

Now why would OW do this just out of the blue?

Why are you trying to do damage control? Why not let the exposure do it's job?

Honey, I know you are young and scared, but you really need to listen to the MB advice you've been getting. Your life and your marriage will NOT be over if you expose completely--- all the way to the top. Your WH MAY get mad, most do, but it will not end anything but the affair. If she feels comfortable enough to approach your WH to ask to meet with you, then there's a reason for that.

Please RE-READ Surviving an Affair and all of Dr. H's articles.

Please, please do what is best for your marriage. Let exposure continue and let the cards fall where they may.

ITA with PM. Obviously, OW IS comfortable enough to talk to your WH. The conversation probably went a little like this;

OW: Hey, don't you have any control of your wife?

WH: Why? What happened?

OW: Sgt so and so came by and was asking me about you and us. What did she do?

WH: I don't know. She was being told to expose to command but I read her thread(REMEMBER PEOPLE, HE KNOWS ABOUT THIS PLACE) and she said that she wasn't going to expose. I thought I had her under control. I am gonna go to her work and ask her. Don't worry, I'll take care of it.

OW: Good. I think I can help. Just let me talk to her too. I'll convince her(since you can't).

Your WH KNOWS about DrH and ALL of the things in the MB plans.

This can give you a GREAT disadvantage. At times of recovery, it gives you a great advantage if they are already on board.

I am sorry, I think you are falling prey to gaslighting, which is normal. Problem is, your WH KNOWS your gameplan too. He KNOWS what you are thinking and he is pulling out his best game on you. I am afraid that it is working.

Please, stick to the WHOLE plan. MB isn't a menu where you get to pick and choose what you want to do. It is an instruction manual that you need to follow.

Well, H and OW is being called into the SgtMaj's this morning. So whatever happens happens I guess. I did speak to OW about what she wanted. Her words "I'm sorry"

I lost it, your sorry, she was sooo lucky it was over the phone cause if it had been in person I would of stabbed her then said I was sorry too. I know that I probably shouldn't of called her but I was curious of what she could possibly want to talk to me about. I do wonder if gysgt told her to say that to me thinking it would make a difference to me. It didn't, all it did was tick me off even more.

I don't know what will happen. I guess we'll find out today. It's messed up though cause it seems gysgt was able to get H transfered another way. But now because all this going on I don't know what's gonna happen.

If SgtMaj knows, then nothing else is holding you back from exposure, and you know how WH will react.

ITA. Expose this and be done with exposure so you can move on to the next step.

I know you were afraid. Now, that part is out of your hands. All you would do is finish it up.

ok well sgtmaj didn't speak to H today. I guess it got passed down to the 1stsgt. I should hopefully know whats going to happen tomorrow. H has to go talk to 1stsgt tomorrow and should find out whether they are going to transfer H now. I truly hope they do oherwise something is real messed up with this command.

And once again she ignores our advice.

Good luck to you.

Well, F4F, I came back to ask if you followed my advice, and I guess you haven't, however, I won't berate you for it or tell you I'm taking my ball and going home. You could really use the help of the post behavioral health services; all of the military services have had a 180 degree turnaround in the way they view using these services in light of the increase in suicide rates and broken marriages ever since the start of Afghanistan/Iraq, so there is no career stigma or chance of losing a security clearance over seeing a counselor for your marital issues. You could even request the JAG (base legal) office to solicit your husband's chain of command to make a command referral to BHS in lieu of nonjudicial punishment, and simply give him a direct order not to have contact with the OW. Disobeying that order would result in UCMJ action.

People can post here all they want about NC being essential and get on your case for not following that advice, yada, yada, yada, but as you acknowledged before, it's not like your husband can walk away from his job. Desertion in time of war is a very serious offense. The guidance from posters here and from the Harleys is great, and most of the time this template for marital recovery IS a one size fits all, but there are occasions where modifications are necessary. I think your case is one of these. If you can get his chain of command to give him a direct order to have no contact outside of duty with this OW and get a command referral to BHS, I think it would provide you with an interim solution until his transfer orders do come through. And BTW, orders can be changed, if he gets orders that keep him at your current duty location, a call to his branch manager by his 1SG (is that a gunny in the Corps?)can get them changed. Once you are away from your current location, no contact can be assured and you can then follow a traditional MB action plan.

You know my opinion of your situation from my first post, but I am former military, and if I can help you and your husband I will. I do agree with the others that inaction will not serve you well but I disagree on the methods they wish you to employ. The military chain of command and legal system has certain benefits to it that can actually aid you, and as you well know, adultery and disobeying a lawful order are actual criminal offenses and carry much more weight than consequences in the civilian world, with a little smarts you can use this to your advantage without permanent consequences to your husband.

Edited to add: Sorry, forgot to add one thing - there is a man on these boards that goes by the moniker "K" that raised an OC as his own. May be a good resource for your husband, but I don't know for sure if he still visits this site, but the vets would know more.

No one is suggesting her WH walk away from his job in the military. That's absurd! What we are recommending is that she expose this up the chain of her command (as is recommended by Dr. H, the owner of this site.)

That yada, yada, yada advice is based on MB advice, which is what this site is about, MB.



Now, wouldn't this be the same thing as what we're telling her? To go to the chain of command? Only we're saying go to the highest chain of command.

The whole point of exposure is to make key people aware of this affair so that WH will HAVE to be accountable and possibly be transferred AWAY from OW. Dr. H says if there is ANY Contact, recovery is impossible.

BTW, what's you're story? I noticed that you have few posts and they're all advice to other people. It helps your credibility if you let people know where you're coming from.

You're not looking for a DiD are you?

Well, H spoke to the 1stSgt on friday and according to H and gysgt they are going to transfer H to another command. That because of everything going on that it's best to separtate H and OW. Alot of ppl seem to think that I was out to ruin H career by going to talk to legal but that wasn't my intention I actually just went there to get information about what would happen if I did decided to go that route and tell. I didn't give my name or H name or company but they figured out who I was anyway. I guess I was nieve thinking when you go talk to legal there is a confidentiality, boy was I WRONG.

But whatever whats done is done, the transfer is in the works. Hopefully the paperwork gets done and processed before this weeks up.

On another note we went down this weekend to see H aunt. She is now in hospice. The cancer spread, treatment isn't working so H is upset, which I can perfectly understand. I did get upset thou when H wanted to go out drinking with his brother. I don't know why I guess just I don't trust H right now. I feel bad for not letting him go. I know he just wanted to go sit with his brother and talk to him about everything that is going on between us and everything with his aunt. But I got upset that it would of course be leaving me at his parents house with the kids while H went out. I feel like a royal [censored] now for it but at the time I thought I was jusified. I guess I'm just being selfish. I'm consentrating on the M and H was consentrating on his aunt for the weekend and in his words "Put our problems on hold for the weekend." I got upset over that even though I do understand I guess like I said i'm being selfish.

Everytime we go down to visit family H feels like he has to split his attention between me and his family which gets me upset. H family is hispanic and 1st language is spanish and I only know alittle spanish so I get left outta conversations alot. But I don't understand why it's so hard to include me and why it's so hard for H.

Anyway I got off track here. NC isn't offically started yet but like I said the transfer is in the process right now. I just hope it happens sooner than later. H and I seem to be doing better. There is still ALOT we need to work on but I've been meeting H SF N and H been doing better to meet my EN of affection which of course makes me want to meet his need for SF. We need to make a second MC appointment. Our schedules never seem to mesh during work hours to make another appointment but we'll keep trying. I'm still having difficultly not picturing H and OW together when we do things that I know they did. But I'm working on it. I'm also going to go tomorrow on my day off about getting a RX for anti depressants because I've been getting upset at the kids to easily as of lately and it's not their fault so I need to get some help dealing with my anger towards what H did and the fact that I feel like H isn't trying 100%. H always has an excuse of why he can't do something and he is always procrastinating things (ie: going over the EN questionaire or setting ground rules for the R). I told H that I needed NC and for right now I needed him to stop talking to females period (ie: talking to a female Ssgt, that used to be his boss but is not longer with the company but they still text or call eachother) I got upset when I walking into the car after coming out of the store to find H on the phone with this ssgt. Now she is the one that recommended the MC that H and I both like but I'm like thanks for the recommendation now stop talking to my H. H gets upset saying what happens when he gets put in charge of females or when he gets another female boss? I'm like for right now you need to stop talking to females outside of work related issues until I begin to trust you again. Am I overreacting?

Nice to hear about the transfer. Exposing earlier should have had the same effect earlier. Anyhow, your H talking to a female co-worker outside of the office is bad. You also have every right to approach him about it because it triggers you, and you trust him less each time he contacts any female outside of work.

I think you should let him know that you trust him less when he talks to a female co-worker, especially about non-business subjets outside of the workplace.

NOPE! You are not overreacting you acted just the same way any other BW would do.

I do tell him. I seems to get H upset because as H said "I don't like to be treated like a child. I understand why and agree with you but I don't like being treated like a kid."

Everytime I try to calmly tell H how I feel and what I need from him right now. He says he understands, agrees with it and will do it but he gets upset too. I'm doing my best to not agrue with H and when I talk to him do it calmly and without getting upset but everytime H gets an attitude with me about treating him like a child. "I'll do it but it don't mean I like it."

I'm going to try and sit H down again today after work and HOPEFULLY get him to go over the EN questionaire and also discuss the ground rules for the R and what my triggers are.

I know exposure would of got the transfer done earlier and everyone is upset with me for doing it his way but I was scared and confused about what I wanted to do. And because of it being military and not a cilivan job exposing adultery can be a career ender in the military so it was something I did want to take into consideration. But as long as the end result was H and OW being seperated and NC established I'm satisifed. Even if it did take alot longer than I would of liked.

Your WH seems to be doing just enough. By that I mean, he is doing the bare minimum HE feels he should do.

Your WH is having an affair(I use the present tense because until there is NC FOR LIFE it's still in the present). HE is NOT IN CONTROL OF THIS. He needs to do things and change things to make you feel better. HE NEEDS TO CHANGE.

Other than the NC, which is currently in the works(at least we can hope the transfer will help him out, but I would most definitely suggest snooping be continued in whatever way possible), what else has your WH agreed to do? Does he have any EPs that he is going to put in place? Perhaps one about NO alone time with members of the opposite sex? See where I am going with this?

It seems that your WH wants YOU to change. I absolutely believe that there are things that you are going to have to change so you can have a better marriage. You need to implement MB in ALL aspects of your life. Have you learned all about MB? ENs? LBs? POJA? PORH? How do YOU implement these things in your daily life? What EPs do you have in place so you won't have another affair? Are you guys getting in the 20 hours a week of UA, meeting the 4 most important ENs, conversation, RC, SF and affection?

It takes a lot of work and not just on your part. Your WH needs to understand that he needs to help you heal. You also have to help him heal. This is going to take a LONG time.

I know, I know. I have put EP in place for me. H seems to think that just by doing the NC that should be enough and I've tried getting him to post here and read the articles but his excuse is always that nobody replies back to him.

I'm still dealing with H turning everything back at me. Anytime I get upset or try to talk to him about everything H always wants to turn it back on me and make it about my A. It's making R very difficult and even our MC told him stop. It's a defence thing with him.

H keeps procrastinating the talk we need to have about EP and EN, etc but I'm going to try to do it tonight after we both get home from work. I know it won't work unless we are both giving 100%.

The difference is that what I suggested (at least until the husband gets his orders) wouldn�t result in loss of rank, ruining his chances of promotion and subsequently advancing his career in the military. I�m surprised that they decided to move him with receipt of orders imminent, but that will at least accomplish the NC aspect. And it was good that he didn�t receive any non-judicial punishment. Depending on who gave it (company grade vs. field grade) and whether it was formal vs. summarized, it could have meant loss of one or two pay levels, a monetary fine (which they can�t afford), and restriction with extra duty. Receiving a formal non-judicial punishment would effectively spell the end of his chances to advance past E-6. But that�s all water under the bridge now.

I think it�s very important that the husband seek IC to help him deal with what the wife did to him and decide if he can get past it or not. Otherwise, it will be like this throughout his marriage, there will be periods that he�s seemingly fine alternating with times that he isn�t. He may never be able to get past it, having a constant reminder of his wife�s infidelity and deceit calling him Daddy, in which case you can Plan A or Plan B all you want, and it won�t make a difference if the root cause in all of their problems is something that can�t be rectified. I don�t think she really understands that, she takes what he says about everything being fine at face value when it�s obvious that everything is far from fine. Most men wouldn�t be able to accept a child not their own, especially their first child � I know I wouldn�t. I would have divorced the OP immediately. So, you may ask, why do I want to help her? The son is here and isn�t going anywhere, so that point is moot - what has to change for this to have any chance of working is his attitude and perception. That�s why I suggested he contact K. As Mr Miyagi said, one side of road, you karate do, the other side you karate don�t do, in the middle get squished like grape. The future of their marriage depends on his acceptance of what is, otherwise why continue? I don�t think it is right for her to have this continually hanging over her head and later her son�s head, he needs to make his choice and live with it.

As far as my story? Don�t really have one. I was a long time lurker until I decided to join this site a few years ago, but I very seldom post. I just follow threads here and on the marriage builders 101forum to learn, and I apply the MB principles to my own marriage. I am ex-military and in civil service (with most of that working for the military as a civilian) I think I have a pretty good grasp of what being in the military is like and the difficulties it can entail. So I follow military related threads with interest, such as the current ones with Sick of Limbo and Gerka Guard.

BTW, what is a �DiD�?

DiD=Damsel in Distress

I've had it with all of H excuses! H obvious isn't interested in the least bit about actually working on this M. H thinks that just getting the freaking transfer is enough and he shouldn't have to lift a finger in regards to anything else. I have been trying for weeks now to go over the EN questionaire with him and it's always the same dang thing every single time "I have to get up early in the morning. I'm not awake enough to discuss it. I should be getting off early tomorrow."

WHY?

I'm trying.... I don't understand what I'm doing wrong. I go to work, come home deal with the kids, clean, make dinner, meet H's SF. I'm doing everything H wanted me to do so why isn't H even willing to talk to me about a freaking questionaire? I cry every night over this and I'm just getting sick and tired over this. The past 2 years I cried over the BS H put me through because of my A. How long am I supposed to do this? How long to I keep putting up with all this until it obvious that H isn't willing to work on R this M.

DS starts pre K next week and his teachers are coming tomorrow morning to do the home visit before school starts. I told H about this and that the house needed to get cleaned up since we left this past weekend and we rushed to get ready becuase I was running around taking kids to dr appts and H got off and instead of getting everything ready he came home and went to sleep. So once I get home I have to run around and get everything ready to go. Then H gets off before me today, H knew the house needed to be cleaned because I said so today when I told him the ppl were coming tomorrow. What does he do come home and go to sleep. Then sit on his [censored] while I'm cleaning and doing laundry. H kept asking me what I needed done but it was obvious that the floor needed swept the table cleared off, kitchen cleaned up, dished done. So then once the kids are in bed and we are able to discuss the EN without the kids bothering us, H is tired and has to get up early. AHHHHHH!!!! Plus I'm left to clean the freaking house too. WTF!!!!

Is it just a guy thing or is H just not trying?

Sounds to me you need a plan B

Seems that way lately. Well apprently the transfer has gone thru and H reports to his new command on Monday. H is at the rifle range this week and yes OW is there. Which of course I dislike very much but H needs to requilify on the range and they wont take him off so I don't have much choice than to deal with it until Monday.

I am getting sick in tired of his command asking me that if they do the transfer than it's over and I won't go starting [censored] like going to talk to legal again. I mean WTF yeah it'll be over as long as H and POSOW have NC. Now if they keep talking to eachother that all bets are off. H command is acting like I'm the one who is in the wrong. I can't believe this crap. But at least they did do the transfer even thou unitl H is actually gone I'm not going to be ok yet.

I have an appointment today to go talk to the dr about getting some antidepressants. I've been getting angery at the kids to much and I'm always mad and upset or crying. I need something to help me right now especially since H isn't doing crap in the way of working on the M. I ended up ripping up my EN questionaire last night. I'm just so tired of feeling like i'm having to force or nag H to talk to me about anything in regards to healing the M. H thinks that by him getting transfered that is all he has to do.

Seriously how long do I keep doing this? Should I wait until the transfer happens then see where we are or do I tell him to leave now until the transfer actually happens and H is actually willing to follow thru with a plan and set bountries and rules. I just feel like i'm always nagging H and of course that isn't going to be helpful. it's just going to cause issues. I'm so confused. I thought that once H got this transfer things would start getting better but they aren't. Granted the transfer hasn't acutally happend yet but if H isn't showing any improvments now how am I supposed to believe that he will after he transfers.

F4F, I get the sense that you're a little high-strung.

Time and patience dear, time and patience. It took you guys a long time to get to the point where you are and it will take a long time to get to recovery (if you do.) You cannot control what WH does, only what YOU do. I know it's hard but perhaps you need to back off somewhat for now and start thinking about whether you want to stay in this marriage.

I also get the sense that you are looking for a reason to bolt. Am I off the mark?

Look, the transfer has happened. You know that as long as there is contact, WH remains in the fog. The real test will come when contact has stopped and he begins to defog (this won't be instant BTW).

Can you name five good things about your WH? Because really, according to you (and what you post) he's about the worst husband that ever walked the earth. You don't mean to portray that do you?

What are YOU doing to make YOU a better wife? Can you answer that question without pointing fingers at WH?

Which MB books have you read? Would you pass a test on LBs? Do you know what they are?

Let's take the focus off of HIM and focus on YOU for awhile.

See what happens.

I've read HNHN and Surviving An Affair. I also have LB but haven't fully read that one yet. I don't mean to portray H to be the worst person out there just that he is selfish. H can be very loving, he's a good father, close with his family (which I love), a good provider, will work 2-3 jobs for his family if he has to, and not selfish in the bedroom.

I guess because right now H is "in the fog" he isn't those things right now. I got my RX so hopefully that will help me for now. I'm not looking for a reason to leave, I want to heal my M.

Currently I am meeting H SF N, not fighting with H, got a job, been losing weight, taking care of the house and kids, cooking, not nagging H about doing housework or his chores (ie: trash and yard work), been dressing more my age and less like a "old woman" (as H says). I read H EN questionaire and been doing my best to meet his N without demanding H meet mine.

I know I can't expect instant changes but I guess I figured there would be more effort on H part but I guess H just isn't where I'm at yet. It took me 2 yrs to fully give everything so I guess I should really have more patience.

Really?? Your going to wait two years till you husband changes? I'm sorry sweetie, but if he won't change NOW then he will NEVER change. UNLESS, you go to plan B.

That is my opinion, not sure what the vets say about that.

I'm not planning on waiting for 2 yrs, that would be nuts. I guess H found my ripped up EN questionaire and took it with him to work and read it. So when H came home yesterday he wa doing those little things that I was wanting. We talked about it last night and H admitted that he wasn't meet any of my N and that he was going to start. I guess we'll see how long that last for. Now lets see if H makes the second MC appointment (always makes excuses about his schedule). I want to believe H is serious about doing everything and really trying but only time will tell if he is for real of still all talk.

Honestly I think that him meeting a couple of your ENs is a good start. Let him know that you are trying to meet his ENs when you are being proactive of meeting his ENs. It looks like he is getting the hint that this needs to be done for you too.

At some point, when he understands ENs and is making some effort to meet your ENs, you should commit to each other that you both will do your best to meet each others ENs. If either of you is not getting an EN met then it is up to that person to let the other know that a specific EN is not being satisfied.

You may want to test the waters and say something like, "Right now will you commit to meeting all my ENs and I will meet all of yours?" Who knows what he will say, but at least you will know where he stands.

Actually I think I know where he stands if you ask him if he were willing to meet your ENs. I guess I would suggest scratching that and just working ENs by example for now. Dumb it down and make it simpler than I said above.

Yeah he posted on here (DRO - post "this is marinemoms husband) and when I read his post H says nothing in regards to his own A but just about mine. It's like his own little pitty party. H is only giving half and not the whole story which ticks me off some since again I'm being made out to be the bad guy and the only one wrong. It upsets me and Ive told H that.

I'm going to contiune to meet H ENs and pray that H will meet mine in return. Lead by example!

Fighting....don't worry we know about his affair, when the time comes he will bring it up, but right now he needs help on some of his issues, his affair will eventually come up after he get's help with these issues.

OK? We know what he has done, and know one has brought it up, just let us help him where he needs it ok?

Ok, I guess I understand but I don't like him only explaining half the story. I figure if you want advice and help lay the whole thing out. I'll step back and calm down. My RX hasn't started working yet (it'll take like 2 wks to start) darn meds.

I wish he would post more often so we could help him with his issues separately. Fighting, I was wondering if you could give him a gift. A DNA test to show him that his son is his. It seems like this is one road block to your marriage that he is hung up on. I wouldn't discuss it make it a surprise.

Wheels, 2 tests were done. H knows.

kk...cool, i was unsure, and if you said previously then I probably forgot. At least that is one thing that should be a non-issue for him now.

It's not an issue of not knowing but it still seems to be a basis for Hs issues. As H puts it "we stole his first son/first born" "took him for a fool" etc. I don't know what else to do.

WTH? According to your own siggy, WH's A was in 2010. His last post was in 2008. Of course he doesn't say anything about his own A because it hadn't happened yet.

He wrote his thread when he was in PAIN and had just discovered your A and the fact that OC was not his and you call it his "own little pitty party".

Really F4F... stop it.

What he just post on here yesterday and last month 7/10.

So the son is not his then?

correct DS isn't Hs bio child

Your husband has taken a severe blow. SEVERE.

Here let me repost his thoughts/words - that you so casually have dismissed.

"we stole his first son/first born"

"took him for a fool"

No, it does not excuse his affair, but THIS is not just an 'issue' of his. A 'hangup'. Something HAS been robbed from him.

He may not overcome this. He really may not. He may never be able to see and raise this boy as his own.

You have to accept that as a possible consequence of your affair.

Where is your sympathy for him?

Yes, I know - you have been betrayed now too. Yes, he has a lot of work to do... but realize - he may not WANT to, as he, too, has been betrayed. It doesn't make his adultery right, ok, or even justified.

It just is.

Wow really. I have been on getting advice, I have been doing my best to meet all Hs EN, I have bee trying to heal my M. Why is my A always so much worse (because I had OC yes I know) it wasn't my intention to. If i had known back then, YES i would of aborted (sorry to say). I kept OC because I truly thought it was Hs. Yes that is my fault and yes I have to life with that fact for the rest of my life.

I messed up yes BUT I will not be made to suffer for it the rest of my life and I will not give H a free pass on his A due to mine. H was not using protection, his A could of easily led to OC or STD and could still possibly I just found out a month ago about the A. I did get tested but will have to be retested in 6 months to be sure and OW could be prego who knows. Then what we'd be completely even. I mean of course mine is always going to be worse due to OC being born but it don't excuse what H did and H choose to stay and raise OC and even have another child afterwards.

No one said it was worse, no one said he gets a free pass. Drop the defensive attitude.

You gotta work on YOU. He gets to work on him.

Working on you means accepting your husband has taken a HUGE blow - one he may not be able to recover from. Where is your sympathy for him on that?

Yes, he cheated. No, he doesn't get a free pass. Yes he has a lot of work to do. He needs EPs and a plan for recovery, which includes meeting your needs.

However, if you can't seem to muster up the slightest bit of sympathy for HIM and HIS loss, you're gonna get nowhere.


This isn't about EVEN. The fact that you even think it is will hinder your recovery.

This is about RECOVERY.

I completely agree with this. F4F, your own selfishness and demanding behaviour are destroying any chance you have for recovering your marriage with this man.

Your posts are always the same:

H doesn't work with YOU, doesn't give YOU what YOU want, doesn't make YOU happy.

YOU immediately become angry and frustrated and throw a fit because YOU didn't get what YOU wanted.

If you want to fix this, you will have to STOP the demands and STOP concentrating on what your husband is doing. You will have to worry about what YOU are doing to make things better, WITHOUT WAITING TO GET YOUR REWARD AND GETTING FURIOUS IF YOU DON'T GET ONE.

You don't seem to realize - or else you don't want to realize - that 99.999% of all men would have walked out on you and never looked back once they realized the massive deception and betrayal you had pulled on them.

Your husband stayed, but he is a broken man. No doubt his affair is a form of punishment for you, but you know what? You will never even have a chance to deal with his affair if you don't stop heaping the damage ever higher every day, because your marriage will be over anyway.

Now: You have a choice to make.

You can either go on whining, b*tching and complaining about what HE isn't doing and how YOU are not getting what YOU want and filing your posts with ME ME ME (which is all your husband hears, too.) This is creating a terrible environment for all of you, including your poor children.

Or

You can

SHUT

UP

(yes, I said SHUT UP)

STOP whining

STOP complaining

STOP throwing fits

and START simply doing the right things as an honorable wife to fill his ENs and make your home a peaceful place.

the bottom line is: If you don't learn to have empathy for your husband, and you keep on with "waah, what about ME ME ME ME", you WILL lose him. He will simply not come home one night and that will be the end of it.

First Test: If you come back here and post a long defensive diatribe about ME ME ME and look what I am doing and I I I I I I - then that just means you STILL don't get it.

Try coming back here and posting what Plan A things you did today WITH NO DEMANDS ON YOUR PART AND NO EXPECTATION OF REWARD.

You say you want this man and we are trying to tell you what to do to have even a *chance* of keeping him. But we can't do it for you.

This is soo foggy I can't even read it!

Ok sorry if I get on here to vent. I'm not making demands of H. Now when I get on here to vent YES I am upset and YES I do complain. Sorry, I guess I'm not allowed that. But at home, I'm meet Hs EN, I'm not starting arugments with H. I do calmly try to talk to him about my feelings and triggers and YES H does turn it back on me. So yes I get it that H isn't ready. And I do get the Hs A was most likly revenge for mine. H even stated that he choice OW cause she was similar to OM (except female and married). Which is alittle distrubing.

However, I'm not me me me at home but yes when I get on here it's to vent and it comes across that way. because inside I am very mad and upset but I do my best to be calm at home and do what I need to do for H and my M. Yes I get mad when I'm doing what I need to do and H doesn't, it's wrong to me. Yes I know most men would of left. H said he would of had he found out 5 yrs ago when it happened. And yes H had every right to leave 2 yrs ago when I exposed myself and we did the 1st DNA test. BUT H CHOOSE to stay, H CHOOSE to raise OC as his own, H CHOOSE to have DD a yr later. I didn't force him to do any of that.

I guess since I seem to come across as only concerned about myself than I'll stop venting on here and just talk to family to vent. I have become very angry over the past month (due to the lack of NC and still contiunes since the transfer hasn't happened yet). So yes I'm mad, sorry. I do my best to not show that anger towards H and contiune to meet Hs EN regardless. Now yes I did say I needed the NC and for the time being that H stop all converstations with all females outside of direct work related issues. So those have been my demands I don't think it's alot to ask.

Just so I claifiy I shouldn't get on here to vent? Even if I'm doing everything right at home (H even said so) and I get on here to vent. I should stop. Okay I get it. Fine I'll stop.

You know it could have been A LOT EASIER if you had LISTENED TO US TO EXPOSE 2 MONTHS AGO!

But no, you decided to keep it ALL in and feel resentment towards your husband.....how is that going for you by the way?

My apologies for getting the date wrong, I was reading the wrong thread.

I agree with the others though, you have got calm down and start thinking about what you're doing and saying and how it comes across. We don't even know you, can you imagine how it must sound to your husband?

LOL yes SR I know, I know and yes I did this to myself by not exposing right off the back. As i've said before thou adultry in the military is a punishble crime and can be a career ender. I just wasn't ready to do that and wanted to find another way. So I know my anger is my own making. I guess I expected H to be where I am now right off the back and that's just dumb. I know it's gonna take time that's why I'm not saying all this at H and venting on here but yea I guess H gets on here and reads what I post and it's just not helpful. So I'll have to find else where to do my venting when I'm angry. It is stupid when I know H can get on here a see what I say. I guess I figured this is where I would get the best advice on how to cope with my anger and all and what I should and shouldn't be doing.

Things are just hard right now and I'm truly doing my best to do what I need to and stay calm towards H anytime I try to talk to him. I guess since H never truly dealt with his issues regarding my A and just pushed everything inside as his way to deal with it we are now faced with trying to help H cope and Hs own A which of course leaves little room for me being allowed to deal with my own issues becuase of his A since I'm expected to help H due to mine. It's just a big mess.

F4F, you need to listen to these vets and do YOUR work. Don't act childish and say, "Fine, I can't come on here and vent, WAH WAH WAHHHHH." Remember, we all have BS meters on here and we are trying to help you. We all want the same thing for you, a happily recovered marriage. We can only point things out to you, you need to do the work.

Now, as far as what your WH says on his own thread, STAY OFF OF IT. Time and time again, couples are told to stay off of each others threads. It is for the same reason that DrH doesn't council a couple together. You both need to do your own work without LBing each other.

What everyone is trying to say to you is that you need to clean up your side of the fence. You need to become truly remorseful for what you did and understand that even if this marriage ends in divorce, one thing will still be true, "YOU COMMITTED ADULTERY WHICH RESULTED IN AN OC." How are you going to fix that in you? How are going to ensure that THAT doesn't happen ever again?

It is not that you aren't allowed to vent about your WH and the fogginess that he is in. You need to be doing your work as well. ALL BSs on here are told that they need to look at themselves and change what got them there. It is a part of the MB program. You aren't allowed to skip it and you are even less allowed because you have your own A to get through.

DO THE WHOLE PLAN. Just like when we suggested the exposure at the workplace, we aren't going to let up on this one. You have a choice, you could start listening now, or in a couple of months when your WH is out the door.

I know this is hard work, if you aren't up to it, you can give up now. Will you be able to love with yourself?

I am remorseful for my A. And yes I know there is no way to fix the fact that OC was born from my A. I have put EPs in place to ensure another A isn't going to happen from me. I am doing my best to work on me and be the best wife I can be for H. I just need to get more patience. I have a tendency to lash out (i'm working on it thus the RX i got yesterday). I am a very emotional based person so i'm always all over the place, sorry (again i'm working on it). I know R will take time. I'm trying I really am and again I'm working on getting my emotions under control but it'll take up to 2 wks to start seeing any benifit from the meds. Hopefully everyone don't disown me and give up on me before then. I will do my best to stop the constant venting and try to better think before i start typing everything that pops into my head

No one is saying that you can't feel or think what you do. They are just trying to get you to see something. It would be best for you to listen to what they have to say and do what they ask. You never know, you might learn something.

ETA: Hint, there might be a reason they asked you if you read LB yet.

WOW, I want to publically say I was wrong and I'm sorry. And PM (princessmeggy) you right when you were reading the thread. I saw it up at the top of the page because someone else recently posted on it. The thread I was SOOO overreacting to was from 2 yrs ago.

*EGG ALL OVER MY FACE*

I'm glad I didn't come home and start yelling at H. That would of been bad. WOW I really need to pay more attention. Again I am so sorry and I feel like such an a$$ and a complete idiot right now.

I just wanted to point that out. Again PM you were so right. Now H did post on here a month ago and yesterday but that wasn't the thread I was reading when I was overreacting. You were reading the right thread. Sorry.

Well, the past 2 days have been going good actually. H has been helping me with the kids alot more. Helping around the house.... it's great! Like last night we were eating dinner and his ssgt called him but he missed it and instead of just calling him right back H asked me first since we were eatting. H wouldn't of done that before and wouldn't consider my feelings, so he is doing alot better trying to think about my feelings first. Things are far from perfect but we are doing alot better.

Hopefully we can keep this up.

Transfer Monday.... YAY!!!! The whole command knows now that H is leaving. So it actually seems like it will be happening. The only sucky part is H was gonna be in charge this next class and he was waiting on that to happen cause it would look great on his fitrep and help him on the boards to pick up ssgt. But oh well I'll take the transfer over him becoming a pc (plt commander) any day.

Well, I just wanting to give everyone an update on how things have been going. And again I'm SOOO SORRY for yesterday's drama fest. I felt like such and idiot and H was messing with me too last night over it.

H has been transferred....YAY!!!!

Things have been going really well between H and I. Meeting eachothers ENs.

On another note DS started preschool today....sorry I'm so happy about that.

I know H hasn't been posting on here but I'm not sure if he has even been on MB at all. I'm going to let him know that he's had some replies on his post on the other forum and let him decide if he's going to continue to post on here or not.

With the transfer comes alot more time at home. Less hours at work and no more duty every couple days. Alot more family time. I work on the weekends now in the morning so H is spending more time with the kids alone. Which is something they all need (kids and H). H seems happier and less angry.

I want to thank everyone who has put up with my rants. I know we still have a long way to go but we've started out ALOT better this time around than the last. Going to contiune to go to MC now that H will have more time off.

Well, things have been up and down. Been going to a MC who is real good. But now H is going to NY for work stuff. leaving tomorrow and comes back Sunday. I'm just not there yet and I don't trust him. Him leaving out of state for that long makes me very uncomfortable but there isn't anything I can do about it either. I've tried tossing in the idea of having a good friend of mine watch the kids for the weekend and I go with H to NY but that's a no go for H. "It's for work not for sightseeing and besides they are paying for everything and we don't have the money." I guess i'm just expected to deal with this too.

Also, I still get the feeling that H isn't really sorry for what he did,only sorry he got caught and the only reason he is still here "trying to work thru everything" is because he is afraid that i'll go to his command and tell them everything if he tries to leave. (which isn't untrue) The only reason I haven't gone that far is because the transfer did go thru (even though he is still within walking distance from OW) and that H is here and I don't want to hurt my family just for revenge.

Everytime I tell H that something makesme uncomfortable or uneasy when it comes to his work the first thing out of his mouth is "it's my job, it's manatory, you act like I have a choice, it's the marine corps you were in you should understand.....etc" not i'm sorry lets try to find a solution. It's always him him him. Now at times things are great. I mean before this whole NY thing I was fine. Well except when there is a function like the marine corps ball that OW would be at that I told him if we go I can't promise I'll be able to keep calm if I see OW but again all he said was the same thing then got an attitute with me because I told him I wasn't going and he wasn't going without me. I mean why would he want to put me in that situation? The ball isn't until later this month but I already told him we aren't going. But that was taken care of but this leaving to NY thing bothers me. I'm just not there to trust him to be gone for that long out of state. I'm I overreacting? D-day was just July 20th and not 100% sure about if NC has ever been done since as I said they work so close to eachother. I asked H to do the NC letter but never happened.

You are not in a recovery, your marriage is still at it's stake, if you don't do anything right now you will lose him for ever.

I agree if the OW is not out of the picture, then recovery will be difficult.....
You need to stay firm with what is acceptable for you and your marriage.
Good job on making the respect levels between you better......little by little things will change for you guys.........
My therapist always says trust UNTIL............that's where you start, don't feel weak, you and your history are more powerful than you think

Well then things were going alright. H going to NY bothers me alot but I was just gonna deal with it until last night. He calls at 6pm to tell me they got to NY and they were going to go to get something ot eat (H and 2 other guys from work). H said he'd call me either that night or in the morning depending on how things went. 10pm rolls around and I try sending H a text asking how things are going. Try calling and H phone is turned off. Well H calls me finally around 11pm. Automatically goes into excuses. They got lost (ok that i could believe) and conveniently all 3 of their cell phones die (that is just to much of a coincidence to buy).

Then he starts getting an attitude with me because i'm upset and don't believe his story. I just don't know what to think anymore. Then I see a charge on the card for almost $5 at a drug store up in NY. And when I look at his call log he called some number at 1am and they only talked for 2 mintues. I don't know if i'm overreacting or what.

Hi there,
Look you can't control what he is doing, only yourself. This will drive you crazy, just keep checking and if you have solid proof of something going on, then you can talk to him, just show him a woman improved that's all you can do from where you are at right now......
It's tough but you can do it.....right now you have to just work on a better you so he can see the good in that, ...........

I know the only thing I can control is me but it's hard to just deal with all this. I mean maybe if he seemed actually remorsefully for what he's putting my through and what he did than okay but when I still feel like his job is still what comes first to him it drives me insane and I'm having a real hard time dealing with it. I really just want to go to the OWH and tell him everything.

@Fighting -

If your WS is in contact with OW then by all means expose to OWH.

The other stuff about remorse about what he did and him putting his job first is your Taker.

It is good that you bring these things here instead of venting to WS.

If I could make a suggestion. Read up on Plan A, what it is and what it is not. Read up on Giver/Taker. Read up on the states of a marriage.

When dealing with your WS what you are expecting is his Giver, but all your getting is his Taker. Using your giver is the only way to pull him from withdrawal to conflict and then finally intimacy. If you use your taker only, he will stay in withdrawal.

The old timers might correct me, but I think that the only time you will use your Taker is during conflict when your are POJAing. By using POJA it should satisfy both your Takers and get you right back into intimacy. If you use your Taker during conflict to create LB, then it will lead to withdrawal.

IMHO (correct me if I'm wrong), the easiest way to deal with the issues you spoke about is to start out in intimacy. Then POJA the issues.

Ok but if we were using POJA H wouldn't be in NY right now because I am not ok with it at all. I tried to come up with a solution (my friend would watch the kids and I would accompy him to NY) but that was met with exucses from H "it's my job not a vacation, we don't have the money, etc"

You keep talking about withdrawal but H has no feelings for the OW and as far as I know there hasn't been any contact. H clearly stated that OW was purely for the sex and nothing more. they didn't hang out or anything like that outside of work except a few rare occations when it was at a co-workers party or during a work outting. The deal between them was purely sexual. Which of course leads me to the concern that my H is capable of one night stands since he don't need an emotionaly connection to OW to have sex with her.

I try to use POJA but that don't work since H always has an excuse to not adjust just like the NY thing. Which always leaves me alone crying. I just don't know what to do?

@Fighting -

So this trip wasn't POJAed. Your post has a lot of things that I see:

You feel that H is not being honest and open. Your EN. He gives you excuses to not POJA. This is IB. This is a big LB for you. IB is a sure sign of withdrawal. You can't POJA when H is in withdrawal. The only way to get what you want is if your H is in intimacy. Got to get to Intimacy.

So your in Plan A and your H is LBing you. Your Taker is expecting compensation. Accept that you are not going to get compensation while he is in withdrawal. The IB is a sign to you that he is not in the marriage. This is hurtful to you and makes your Taker want the pain to stop.

You need to read this link: Three states of Marriage. Read through the links. Especially the last one.

I'm going to give an example of how My Taker gets me into trouble.

My XGF was in withdrawal. I'm trying to meet her intimate needs. Things seem to be going pretty smoothly. Then one day we're talking on the phone and I said something that made her angry. She said she had to go and hung up the phone.

My feelings were hurt. As far as I knew I had done nothing wrong. My Taker then started texting. Saying things Like how come your mad? What did I do? Well if thats the way your going to be then fine. (Love Busters)

What I should have texted was. I'm sorry I upset you. When possible can we talk about it?

Guess where we are now?

I didn't prepare myself for the conflict. conflict is good. I have to go through conflict to get to intimacy.

Somehow you have to get into conflict and then intimacy in order to get to where you want to be. Put your Taker in charge of this plan. Instead of lettting it whine about this or that or what your H is doing. Give your Taker a plan to get your H back from withdrawal.

I have been married to my husband going on 18 years; our marriage was decent; but other people besides our 3 children were always living with us so private time didn't happen. About 5 years ago my husband had auto accident where the other man died. It was devastating; our relationship took a turn for the worst; things happened and were said that shut me completely down. A man was hired months after my husbands accident at my work and he started paying attention to me and my feelings for him grew fast, before that happened i had no clue what an emotional affair was. Over months it became physical with hugs and kisses. My husband found out and asked me to end it. I wrote several letters to this man ending it, but he continued and I couldn't fight the feelings I was having. This dragged out over 3 years, I became more and more resentful towards my husband every time he tried to do the things i wanted. At the time I was angry and didn't want those things from him, I rejected him quite often; we fought non stop because of this. It became unbearable to be in the same house with him; I cried constantly not knowing who to turn to for guidance. My relationship with my husband had become hateful. I moved out last year in July; I knew if i didn't get away I wouldn't survive. I left our home and rented an apartment, the relationship with the co-worker ended before I moved out because I had quit my job. I filled for a divorce, my husband and I couldn't even speak to one another without yelling; it seemed impossible. I started seeing another man who I went to high school with, I simply enjoyed his company at first, then feelings for him started, he was saying and doing all the right things but they made me angry. He wasn't the person I wanted those things to come from. I became extremely depressed after attempting to reconcile with my husband in October of last year; I told him everything because he said he needed to know. My husband asked me to apologize to his parents; I went to each of them seperately.I was met with open arms by his father and told by his mother when I left I divorced the family and I was not welcome at Christmas. His mother told me I chose to leave the family and I can't just come back when I want to. I was devasted; My husband shut down and things got worse. I ended up loosing my apartment taking FMLA from work, sedated most days and therapy for 3 months. I went back to work this year in March. I've been staying with family and friends; I've slept in my car and most weeks live out of a bag. I have been putting forth an extreme amount of effort to make things work between my husband and I, with very little effort on his part. He states he doesn't think he can forgive me. The last month I have been staying at the house with him and the children, I thought things were going well, until he told me last night he doesn't think he can do this. I have been doing everything he asks, I haven't caused any waves, no arguements. He puts forth so little effort, but when he does I have hope. Last week he read your basic concepts with me; so i thought that was a start. I am at a loss. I learned so much about myself and my needs through this ordeal of my selfishness and my betrayal of a man who used to love me, he just didn't know how to show me. I am 38 years old and I don't want to waste anymore time that I could have with him. I know in my heart we could work this out if he would give it a chance. Please help me.

mthomas what does any of that have to do with my situation. Please if you need help that is fine but dont do it on anothers thread start your own. It's rude to piggy back on somone elses thread. I'm sorry this is happening to you but you'll get more help if you start your own thread so ppl can find you.

i'm new to this im sorry

its ok just wanted to let you know so if you post your own you'll get more traffic than if you try to post on someone elses.

IB? I read the link and I understand the concept but it's hard to follow. I have tried to follow it but after so long I snap and can't take it anymore. I get fustrated with the lack of care or remorse from H and I do start to get angry. No this trip to NY wasn't at all agreed on. All I got was the same thing I always get from H "it's for work, I don't have a choice, I being made to go, etc.." H refuses to even intertain the ideas I toss out to resolve the issue. I understood it was for work but i thought since I have always wanted to go to NY and we could of made it a mini vactaion. Its for the MMA expo and I enjoy the MMA/UFC so I could of went with him and just got a friend to watch the kids for the weekend. But he wouldn't even intertain the idea it was just shot down. How do I deal with that just take it? I'm just tired of being the only one who has to sacrafice when he was the one who had the A.

Of course it's hard. And of course it's not fair.

If you want fair go get a divorce. The court will fairly divide your assets and debts. It will fairly divvy up the custody of your children. Is this what you want?

MB is very specific that the BS is going to be on the unfair side of the stick. Those links specifically stated that the Giver gets the short-end.

You know Plan A is not for an indefinite period of time. Do you have a time frame for starting Plan B? I know that you've cherry picked your exposure of WS affair. Don't cherry pick the Plan A/Plan B. It will end up hurting you in the long run.

You need to read up on some posts of Plan Aers. The ones that I liked the best were by Neak and princessmeggy. Read up.

Also, have you identified the top ENs that your H has? Are you fulfilling them?

This qoute:

Your Taker is talking here. The short answer is: YES!

In order for your marriage to recover you have to get to the point where his Giver is available.

You sound like you're almost at the breaking point. Are you spending a lot of time trying to recover the marriage? As long as the affair is over, you have time to work on recovery. Work on stopping the LBs and start meeting H ENs to fill his $LB.

This is a long long road. People have been hurt all around. Not just you, but also your H. Go read some of the posts in the recovery forum to see that recovery is not all that easy.

I wish there was a silver bullet or an `easy button`, but there isn't.

F4F I'm going to give you a quiz....

1.) Does your WH still see the OW? At work? Store? etc?
yes or no

2.) Does your WH understand how you feel and feel remorse on what he has done to you?
yes or no

3.) Is your husband open and honest with you? (if you have a gut feeling that he is not this answer is automatically a NO)
yes or no

If they are ALL no then you will lose him, do you understand? I really hope you do.

You need to expose this affair much farther, or you guys needs to move, or he needs to find another job. If nothing changes then I'm sorry, I can not help you.

SR 1. no not that i know of. 2. H does know how i feel i tell him but no i don't feel any remorse from H for his A and I've told him that too. 3. yes and no. i feel he is not completely honest with me and only tells me enough but not everything.

I have contacted the OWH. But I don't get the feeling he cares very much at all. I've told him I wanted to talk to him in person to provide the proof if needed but he at first was like "i don't need proof i just want to get this settled" i got the feeling that either he just didn't care like he already knew or that it was the OW trying to cover her tracks. So i told him i wanted to do this in person but it's not easy to schedule a time to meet up. I really don't want to bring my children to this but i had to quit my job because we couldn't afford the daycare anymore so it's not like i can just drop them off at the center anymore. Then i tried to get up with him and just do this today since H is gone but never got a reply back from OWH so I don't know.

C_K

I know it's hard but it's a never ending. I do feel I am almost to the breaking point. I have been meeting H # 1 EN (sex) even though at times all i can think of is H and OW together which makes meeting that EN very hard for me but I still do. Which I think is affecting my love for him though. We have been going the a great MC which has given us a plan to assist us with rekindling our love (date night once a week, 3 days a week spend 15 mins talking after kids go to bed) but we have had 1 date night since we've started and it's been almost 2 months now. There is always and excuse and we are supposed to talk H is too busy watcihng tv or he is too tired that we have done the talk maybe 3 times.

I mean i know i'mnot perfect and we didn't have a proper recovery from my A yrs ago but even then I basically let H use me as a door mat for 2 yrs because i felt guily for my A. So i don't see how I'm supposed to let him use me again as a door mat when it was him that messed up this time.

Like the MC had use working together at home, H was helping with the kids and he was at least helping with the dishes but i got sick real bad and was out for roughly 3 wks. I wasn't up to met his EN for sex and I didn't have the strenght to do the dishes so the house just became a mess cuz H got mad that I wasn't helping but I was sick all I wanted was to lay in bed but I was still forced to watch the kids (DD was sick as well). H didn't seem to care that I was sick, H said he understood but his actions showed the complete opposite.

Just like with this NY thing. And the issue that happend last night / early this morning. He won't just say sorry for upsetting me he keeps trying to make me feel like i'm the one that is in the wrong for even getting upset. I was already on edge with him even going but I'm just expected to deal with this and his lack of respect of care for my feelings.

I'm real close to the end and I don't want to be but I just can't take much more of this from him. it's like a broken record with him. We keep going over the same things over and over again with no change from him.

***edit***

Well here is a new start for everyone. H got orders..... Japan now if that isn't moving far far away I don't know what is. But we really have to work on us before this move otherwise this could be very bad.