Hi MBers,

I'm hoping to get your opinion on Affairages. For those of you who don't know the term, and Affairage is when two people in an affair marry each other.

Unfortunately, I have a friend who married the woman he cheated with. They have been married about a year and together three. In this time, they've had a son and she has a daughter from her previous marriage (yes, she was married at the time they got together).

Predictably, they are having issues. The biggest? Trust. (Surprise! <----sarcasm) And the normal issues amplified by daily life like kids, bills, full time jobs, etc.

Anyway, even though I'm only a short time poster, I have a zealous believer in Marriage Builders and I share this site and the books with everyone I talk about marriage to... except this friend in an affairage.

I'm torn about sharing this information with them considering the circumstances around the beginning of their relationship. But then you complicate that with the fact there are innocent children involved. Children who deserve two loving parent regardless of the fact they're both cheaters.

Even if I share the MB concepts with them, they're survival chances are still slim.

What are your feelings on this?

aBetterMe

The Harleys DO counsel with Affairages and help them have a good marriage. However, I believe Dr. Harley states that these cases are VERY difficult. It is possible though, and really - for the sake of the children should try to be worked out.

I wouldn't suggest you send them here - some of the best advice from some of the best posters will simply be unavailable to them. I would advise you to introduce them to marriage builders. Encourage them to get SAA, HNHN, and Love Busters and to call in to the coaching center.

They can provide the help this couple needs.

I agree I shouldn't send them here to the website. I think it would detrimental to our (mine and DH's) relationship with them since it would essentially imply our (not so positive) feelings on the origin of their relationship. DH is long-time friends with the other husband and while their marriage may not last, I hope that the friendship with him and my husband can.

It would be easy to share the books with them. I guess I should admit part of the reason I've struggled with this questions is because I feel like they've "made their bed and should have to lay in it". Ugh. Does that make me a bad person?

aBetterMe

If Wayzilla and Gollum (a 3-4 time serial cheater) were ever to affairage as is her fervent desire, and she showed up here one day as a heart broken betrayed spouse pleading for help to save her affairage, I would be very distressed by anyone on the forum that would earnestly help her.

And I refuse to post anything to affairage saving threads.

They need to go directly to the Harleys.

And I would hope Chrisner that you would quickly out them to everyone.

I agree. Even Dr Harley, though, claims he has been unsuccessful in saving affairages.

I think that when partners in an affair marriage cheat on each other, the problem is not the cheating, but one of accepting the natural consequences for your choices. They signed on for this, they are not victims.

If I CHOOSE to drive to Cleveland then I have to be a big enuf gurl to accept that I am in CLEVELAND. The same with marrying a cheater. When you choose a cheater for a spouse you must accept the consequences of your choices.

Who would do that?

I have many opinions on this but in this case...

My silence will have to speak volumes

**snort**

I don't think either of them have cheated on each other (yet) but they're clearly unhappy. And I agree, if you marry a cheater you have to own your decision.

They've stated before that they are aware of the issues they'll face because it is an affairage. I just think those issues are becoming more and more apparent. Add in the fact that she was his subordinate at work and he promoted her, that she moved in with him shortly after his ex moved out, that they had a kid and bought a second house BEFORE they were even together a YEAR or even MARRIED at that point.

They've done everything the wrong way and in the wrong order. They put too much pressure on a new relationship. Even if they HADN'T cheated on their previous spouses, just the fact that they rushed through some pretty monumental life decisions in such a short time, they would still be struggling.

oops, my bad. I thought there was cheating so I re-read your post. The reason Dr Harley says that affairages don't last is because the dishonesty and selfishness that made the affair possible eventually poison the relationship. And certainly they should not trust each other!

ITA with this. It's cruel for affairages to come here and ask for help.

And Dr. H says they are much harder to help ~ for obvious reasons.

I also agree that I would not try to save this marriage. I do want to ask you though, what did you do to save the OM's first marriage? Have you ever told his XBW about this site? Maybe even about the books. She could have GREAT relationships in the future. When I see that someone is in an affairage and they come to this board, I ignore that user. It's because I would not want to help "save" a marriage that destroyed some other BS. DrH does try and that would be the best advice I could give them. He will do his best to save every marriage. He states that there are reasons that those marriages have a much lower success rate than other marriages.

The reasons that these two people were doing things out of order and all willy nilly is precisely BECAUSE they were an affariage. WS's are crazy. They don't seem to have a good sense of reality. It is sad that ONE child has come from this. Maybe they should go their separate ways BEFORE anymore are born.

If you want to give them the knowledge, that is up to you. That knowledge will come with the warts too, like affairages don't tend to last. Best of luck with your decision.

Hi Scotty,

Unfortunately I didn't know about this site when the affair was happening (it started about 4 years ago) or even shortly afterwards. I honestly didn't know about the affair at all until a few weeks after our friend and his ex had broken up and he confessed to my husband. I have told the XBW about this site and if she does find herself in a new relationship I'll make sure she gets the material.

I totally hear you about ignoring those who come in here an affairage because of what they've done to the other spouses. I wouldn't care about helping them save their marriage either but I feel bad about that since there is a child in the middle of all this mess. And when I say to myself, "It's their problem. They got themselves here, let them fix it", I guess I feel like I'm a heartless person because of the kid factor. But you make a good point. Maybe they SHOULD separate before there are ANYMORE victims.

We may see them next week and perhaps I'll feel it out then. If she brings up their relationship, I may offer her a book title and judge her response.

Careful, Chrisner...it's not my home town, but I'm up there all the time.

My thoughts:


There are kids, and also the Harleys do try to help people in affairages save the relationship.

OTOH, I do see your point about not wanting to share the site for personal reasons.

There are some cold facts that they need to know about, one way or the other, about their marriage, their past, and their future if they expect any hope of making anything out of what they have done.

Certainly having MB materials won't hurt them. I wonder, however, how much two waywards would ever consider what the Harleys have to say about their situation as being applicable to them? Since they are having difficulty at this point, my thoughts are that they are both still likely in the wayward mindset, and believe that THEIR AFFAIR is UNIQUE and SPECIAL.

Makes me wonder if they would look at the books and information and believe it did not apply "to their situation". Waywards tend to believe in their own special place in the world.

It might be worth a try, but don't hold out special hope. Sounds to me like the affairage is true to form, and their selfishness and taker behavior has landed them right back at square one.


Truly, they have carried the very thing that was wrong in the previous marriages right into this one:

themselves.


SB

I'm thinking Cleve, returning to his own property...dunno about anybody else, though.

tl

People, people, people! Okay, so the Browns suck! And yes, LeBron couldn't wait to bolt to Miami! And yes, the winters suck!

But I'll let you in on a little secret: Sportsman's Deli. The reuben will convince you that there is a God who loves us and wants us to be happy.

My ex husband married his ow the day after our divorce was final and he became a father three months later. Almost on my birthday btw.

They had an affairage. And yes it did NOT last in any way. No way at all. He began cheating on her. Yes, they have a beautiful daughter, whom I do love and the child is ALWAYS innocent, but sadly, is subject to the actions and issues that always happens when a ws remarries his affair partner WITHOUT having any remorse. Real remorse. But then again, real remorse would tell them to turn away from that situation and sin right?

I'm sorry, but I don't see things bright for them. They can try counseling, but what is to really say for a union which is built upon quicksand? It simply sinks slowly.

Darth (my ol' nickname my wayward beyond wayward playboy ex) and his honey are divorcing. Darth also lost all his net worth. He never got it.

Marry a cheater? Especially if you are the other man or woman? You know the ending even before their affairage "love" story is even written.

I think I have the mileage to be able to make such assertions.

I drove to Cleveland to take a class once. I rented a Pontiac G8. The drive was fun, the class was useful. Cleveland was, well Cleveland.

The affairage lasted until 2009 btw. He was thrown in jail last year and she served sep papers then. She just served him d papers last week btw.

So it was about five years the ex was married to the ow.

My only caveat is he will get out prob next year (white collar stuff) and then he'll prob begin working on finding his next soon-to-be-ex-wife! Geez. I am not happy about son having yet another stepmom.

I would not advise on marriage for waywards.

Thanks everyone. I think I'm going to let them figure this out on their own. I just don't feel right bringing them here and Schoolbus is right; they probably see themselves as special and the information in the Marriage Builders books would go to waste. Even if they did apply what they read, the foundation of their relationship is shaky. The most important thing in any relationship is Trust and they have none of that. If they're committed to making it work, they'll find a way on their own.

aBetterMe