Recently discovered that a female my husband had been trying to help had actually become an emotional affair. I had suspicisons because of how often she called his cell. So I did research and discovered they talk quite often on the phone. Many times I had been calling and he didn't answer because he was talking to her. He doesn't feel that it was an affair "emtional" or otherwise. Yes there were issues in our marriage before all this came to light. So we've agreed to work on our marriage but he feels I am being unfair because I want he to cease all communication with her. They work at the same employer. In the past we have been at the same social event and she's never spoke to me. I don't want to be her friend but found it strange that she's calling my husband so much but couldn't at least say hello. He gets upset when I refer to them as having an emotional affair. He says he associates affair with sexual intercourse. Oh I forgot to mention that she has kissed my husband-he told her that they couldn't go in that direction and she was apologetic. I have many doubts about her true intentions. I want this marriage but am having a hard time because I don't trust her intentions. He seems to think he can handle this by gradually ending communications with her. I feel like the fool in waiting and don't quite understand why things can't just stop. As long as he continues to communicate with her I feel like we can't go forward and rebuild cause I'm intimidated by their connection. What should I do/say?

c411, sorry you are here. Welcome.

Your WH is most definitely in an affair and he will deny deny deny so he can continue his affair. He will lie to you to keep you as his wife and have his girlfriend on the side.

How did you find out about the kiss?

Read this thread, click through ALL of the links and ask any questions you may have.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

As long as your WH continues to work with OW, the affair is off and kicking. You are going to heighten your snooping techniques because your WH now knows that you are on to him.

Is your WH's OW married? Do you have all of the info on her? When you expose this affair, you will need to expose all sides of this affair.

It's not her intentions you should be focusing upon, but rather your husband's. Despite his protestations that it is not an affair, his refusal to give up contact with this woman despite your protestations that it is inappropriate is de rigeur in an emotional affair.

Have no doubts about her intentions. She wants to have your husband in her life, emotionally and physically. She kissed him in order to seduce him.

You need to begin spying on your husband in order to get more information on the extent of this affair, to be certain it has not been more physical than he reports. Look for the "Spying" threads here to see how to do this.

Your husband needs to understand that cheating can be both physical OR emotional. Ask him how much information regarding your marriage he might be comfortable with you sharing with another man, if it would be okay for you to kiss another man, and to share endless phone calls and texts - and refuse his phone calls and conversations in order to spend time with another man instead of him.

Tell him that this affair will lead him to a choice - the other woman or his marriage, and he must choose to stop all contact with her now, because the marriage can stand not having the other woman in it....but it will not survive WITH HER IN IT.

Read up on Plan A, and the Emotional Needs information. Talk to him about emotional needs, and the concept that the two of you are not meeting each other's EN's. Work - starting now - to look good, act good, smell good, and be good, all the time when you are around him.

Meanwhile, you are looking for his texts and emails to her, and spying to get more information to be sure about what has actually (or is) happening with the other woman.


Finally, if the OW is married, you need to call her husband and expose this affair. Do NOT warn your husband about this! Just do it. The OW's husband needs to know that she is contacting your man, and you need to have him in on what has been going on.

Then, expose the affair to your family, your husband's family, and let your husband know that the contact with the other woman MUST END - period.


He will understand very quickly that you mean business. Expect him to be angry. He will get over being angry. Expect that he will say you are blowing this out of proportion. Tell him that you are protecting your marriage from an external intruder, and because he would not stop contact and protect YOU from HER, you had to do it yourself.

Respond to everything he says with, "I want to protect our marriage, and this behavior is leading to an affair. I want us to meet one another's needs, and I do not want you to go outside the marriage to get your needs met. We can work on this together. I am protecting our marriage."

Be a broken record.


Read everything here. The vets will be along to help you.

SB

Don't get hung up on the definition of "affair". It's clear he's guilty of developing a relationship with a woman who finds him sexually attractive, and whom he finds sexually attractive. She is a clear and present danger to your marriage, and the only reasonable course for him to take if he values your marriage is to never see or speak to her again for the rest of his life.

He will fight you on this, though. That's why I say "don't get hung up on the definition of an affair". He's cultivated a relationship with a woman with a sexual interest in him who has demonstrated it. This has done irreparable harm to your marriage already, and is guaranteed to do worse unless it is ended immediately.

Step 1: Buy a copy of "Surviving An Affair" and read it cover-to-cover. It includes an example very much like yours, where a man admitted his feelings for a woman not his wife, and they kissed. It was caught early, the unfaithful spouse finally agreed to do the right thing and never see or speak to his lover again, and the married couple's recovery together was swift and they fell in love again.

The alternative is to wait for the other shoe to drop, your husband to sacrifice his marriage and family for this woman, and for a years-long, painful recovery if you do not divorce over his relationship with her...

c411, sorry you are here.

Two years ago, for a spell, I became an idiot like your husband has become.

What I mean is that, I was a theretofore good, upstanding family man who allowed myself to get into an emotional affair with an acquaintance.

I also didn't understand back then about emotional affairs, and I also would've argued back then (from my standpoint of ignorance & sense of entitlement) that if there was no sex, there was no affair.

As I came to learn, an emotional affair and a physical affair are just different parts of the same continuum. You get into one, you're well on your way to the rest. If they've shared a kiss, they're moving at warp speed on that highway. I know -- I've been down it myself. All the way.

As I also came to learn, for a person who's already IN an emotional affair & remaining in contact with the object of his infatuation, it is the height of self-delusion to think that he can "gradually" end communications with her. Yeah, RIGHT... that was my "plan", too, at one point. The other woman & I even talked about how someday we'd just break things off, "on our own terms, before anyone got hurt, before we went too far." Yadda, yadda. Except that we weren't as strong or as decent as we needed to be.

A man in your husband's situation, no matter how honorable he may have been, will look you right in the eyes and lie to you point-blank, without blinking. I did so to my wife, back when my affair was "just" an emotional affair, not yet physical. The reason is that the infatuation of an emotional affair is incredibly addictive. (From a brain-chemistry standpoint, it's like crack cocacine. You can look it up. Seriously.) So we lie to preserve the possibility of continuing to get the emotional fix of the other person's attention. As long as he's in constant contact with the object of his infatuation, he is not going to be ABLE to break this off on his own. YOU need to ACT decisively to help bring that about. It bears repeating: YOU need to ACT decisively to help bring that about.

How? You'll need to take your evidence & expose his affair to everyone whose opinion matters to him: Work colleagues, his & your parents, the other woman's relatives & friends & husband (if she's married) -- because exposure is what sheds light on & breaks up active affairs. (It doesn't matter that it's only an emotional affair -- the steps you take to end an affair are the same, other than a physical affair means you also need an STD test. And the first & best step to kill an affair is EXPOSURE.) DON'T warn him in advance, just DO it -- tell everyone, all at once -- shock & awe.

I was HIM. My affair only ended after the other woman's husband found her out. That meant I'D been found out, i.e., exposed. And this meant that it was just a matter of time before my wife would inevitably find out; so that's when I broke it off & came clean to my wife, so that she wouldn't hear about it from someone else. But my affair had gone all the way, and so I well knew I couldn't sugar-coat it or make it seem less bad than it was, and the threat of imminent exposure to my wife was all it took to prompt me to end it.

But in your H's case, he probably still thinks that he can put a good spin on events. Since he hasn't gone all the way physical with his affair, he may even still be in denial. So it will take broader exposure in order to end his affair. Even if he is temporarily sincere in wanting to end it (and he may well NOT be sincere) he's wrong if he thinks he can still manage disengagement on his own. He's addicted to her attentions. The way you break an addiction is to break contact now & permanently. If he is not willing to do this straight-up, then the affair needs to be exposed. (Again: You do NOT warn him, you do NOT threaten that this will be your next step. Warning him will just give him time to spin things & obfuscate & lie, and will reduce the beneficial impact of your exposure. Rather, you just DO it.)

Do as Doormat_No_More has advised. Just as I've been where your husband is, D_N_M_ has been where you are. Buckle up and act. Your situation will not resolve itself well if left on its own. However, if you act resolutely, it is not only possible to kill the affair, but to make your marriage better than it has been before. But killing the affair is the essential first step.

Your husband is the fool to think he can handle it, but he is blinded by self-delusion. This is one thing he is doing right, however, if he was willing to tell you that she kissed him. He's blaming her for the kiss, of course, which is another indication of self-delusion. The Catholic Church has a great line: "Satan is the Father of Lies." What can you do? Tell him how hurt you are. Also, expose. He may find that others don't seem to understand how harmless this relationship is.

Finally, this was a very hard truth I had to face myself: the other woman is irrelevant. Your husband made a vow of fidelity to you. Whether the other woman is trustworthy or not is irrelevant. If she is trustworthy, some other woman wouldn't be.

Cherished

Lots of people get too wrapped up whether the contact is "physical" and if so, "How physical was it?" and "who initiated it?" I think your husband shouldn't get too much credit for admitting the kiss. The problem is, what led up to the kiss was all the phone calls -- the emotional connection. THAT's what created an atmosphere, a relationship, a sufficient intimacy where this woman actually thought it would be OK for her to kiss another woman's husband. That's an atmosphere your husband made choices to allow to exist & to continue. Because he IS in an affair. Period, full stop, no ifs, ands or buts, regardless of whether or not HE realizes & admits it.

My FWH said his OW initiated the first kiss. You know what that means to me? Nothing. She just leaned in first, that's all. Because it DOES mean that by then the flirting had been rolling in hot & heavy from my H to her.

You think she runs around, kissing every male she talks to? No.That kiss is a response to a stimulus. Your H's flirting.

Do you have children? Ask your husband how he would describe this relationship to a child of, say, 10 years old.

When I told our kids about FWHs EA, I told my youngest that Daddy had a girlfriend. He knew he couldn't describe her as anything else, and he knew how wrong that was, however he had been justifying it to himself previously.

i agree something more is going on here, you won't let yourself believe it, that gut feeling is usually right.
you need to snoop some more but don't let him knoe what you are up to, if the ow is married have a talk with her husband.
he will say whatever he has to keep you off the trail.

If you say/feel it is an emotional affair, it is. It is a friendship/interaction you feel is inappropriate, and invades on your interaction with your husband.

She has intentions for him. She will try again, and he may eventually give because he's hanging on to the fish hook.

Maybe the ladies can speak up better, but if another woman who interacts with your husband snubs or retreats from you, it should be a signal of their view and/or intentions toward your husband.

I remember a girl I worked with at the grocery store that ran away one day when W came in to see me. At the time I thought it was weird...

Thanks to all of you for the response. I'll try to answer your questions. I asked him point blank if they had ever kissed-the response was yes and that it happened awhile ago and he informed her that the relationship could not go in that direction. Supposedly she was full of apologies.
She is not married but is living with a guy for the last 6 yrs. Also has an older married man as a sugar daddy, she has 2 young adult sons and a 15 year old son whom my husband hired to clean the church. This was another red flag for me because he kept that quiet for a long time. We've been married for almost 16 yrs with 3 children ages 23,21, and 10. This is his first marriage and my second. I made some really bad choices andhave really been the Taker in our relationship.
I have been snooping and this is how I know they still communicate. I've come to some conclusions - he probably won't stop communicating with her and because of our past issues I think he's bitter. I did expose him to his brother and he was not to thrilled. He says that he's friends with her live in man as well. I'm getting exhausted and don't know how much more I can mentally take. I've read the material suggested and wonder if I can do this when I feel as if I'm the only one trying.

You need to explode the exposure, you need to tell EVERYONE!

c411,

Don't get so hung up on the idea that he isn't helping you right now. That isn't unusual.

The fog of his infatuation with her keeps him from wanting to help you with the marriage.

You need to understand that he has decided that he feels "justified" in his behavior. He is thinking wrongly - for sure - and this keeps him headed in the affair direction and not in the marriage direction.

You CAN change his thinking, but only if you have a plan, and work that plan.

That's where Marriage Builders comes in. He may say things to you like, "I love you but I'm not 'in love' with you". Or, "I'm just friends with OW". These are very typical of things people say in affairs! Don't listen to it.

You need to follow an action plan:

1. EXPOSE THE AFFAIR TO EVERYONE! This means that you call your husband's parents, your parents, the OW's boyfriend, even her SUGAR DADDY! Everyone needs to know - and that includes your kids. Tell your kids according to their ages - the older ones will understand the story. The 10 year old, you can tell him that Daddy has a girlfriend, and that this should not happen in a marriage, but that you love him and you are trying to make him stop seeing her and stop talking to her.

2. Be a broken record about how you will NOT talk about divorce, only about repairing the state of the marriage. Talk about how you understand that the marriage was not the place he wanted to be, how you both felt that needs went unmet, but that you know you can work for changes that will result in the marriage being the place for both of you to be happy and fulfilled, and for both of you to fall in love again - with one another. That you know this is possible, and that permanent changes are not only possible, they are a commitment you have made and he will see.

3. Make changes - now. You have seen that you have had your Taker hat on? TAKE IT OFF. Go into Plan A now, and meet your husband's Emotional Needs - and start now. Do it daily, make this your focus.

4. While you are on Plan A, it doesn't mean you allow the affair to continue without comment! When he has contact with her, call him out on it. Tell him that it hurts you, hurts the marriage, and hurts the future for both of you as a couple. Then, RE-EXPOSE when he does this to the OW's boyfriend, and to the family. Tell them that his contact continues, despite your desire for him to stop and repair the damage he is doing to your marriage.

5. Keep reading and posting here. As things progress, there is a rather predictable pattern to what he will say and do. We have the experience to get you through it. First, he will be ANGRY as all get-out that you have exposed the affair. He will call you ridiculous. He will say, "I was going to stop, but now that you told everyone, I am going to keep seeing her just to prove you wrong," or something along those lines. He will say, "Now you've done it, we could have worked on the marriage, but because you exposed the affair and told everyone, I am not going to give YOU that chance," or something like this. He will tell you it is over because you exposed. WAIT HIM OUT, because most wayward spouses say these things, then they begin talking to the betrayed spouse again. He will get over being angry. YOUR MARRIAGE WILL NOT SURVIVE IF THIS OW STAYS IN THE MIDDLE OF IT.


Stick around. Work your plan. Be good, do not commit any lovebusters (no matter how mad you get), and work your Plan A.


Also, read the thread "the carrot and the stick of plan A" for more information.


Keep spying.


SB

well I did expose them both. I called her and then her boyfriend called me back. He had suspicions but tried to give them the benefit of doubt. She was not too happy about the fact that I knew about the sugar daddy. He's trying to make me feel guilty but I want this marriage and will fight. Is it possible for them both to be in denial? They kept saying the same thing that nothing is going on. I found a second cell phone that mainly had her number on it and 3 messages from her. I'm exhausted!

I have become the ultimate pest to them both. When he calls her I expose when she calls him I called her. she went ballistic on me and threaten to kick my a$$. When I told me WH he said this has gone too far. I was upset with myself because I called her a [censored]. Not my style. She even used the if you were taking care of business at home line as well as telling my how insecure I am. Was startled at first but now find it comical that she threaten to kick her good friend's spouse's butt! I feel like I called her and him out on the carpet hence I get the all the screaming and belittling from her. I don't know what I should do next cause I feel like if I retreat now then they will continue. What next?

To whom did you expose?

His brother and her live in boyfriend who was not happy at all. My children,sister and 2 best friends(to us both) know. I just discovered they talked via cell yesterday for about an hour. Last week she threatened to kick my a$$ and I thought maybe that would be the breaking point for him. My biggest dilema is that he's a leader in a church here and I don't want to deal with the fall out if it goes out in the gossip circles. Although according to him it"s already out there. We have our first therapy/counseling session on Dec. 14th and I'm trying not to commit lovebusters but I'm so angry/hurt and in general defeated about now. Time to get ready for church and be the good wife! All of this is so against how I desire to be treated. It's just like I'm the only one really making an effort to make stuff work. I feel like I should just leave.

Waitaminute... what is this guy still doing in leadership position in a church? Is this a church that practices & encourages polygamous behavior & attitudes among its leaders? Most Christian churches take the one husband / one wife thing pretty seriously, since it's in both the Old & New testaments.

Ma'am, your husband does not "get it," and your exposure work is not yet finished. With no advance warning, you should write to the elders or congregational lay leaders at your husband's church (out of love for him) and inform them of this struggle that he has been having, with a relative of someone in the church's employ, and that you believe it would be prudent for your husband to be granted a leave of absence in order to help his marriage survive, and that you expect that they will take appropriate action out of respect for your marriage as well as out of respect for the congregation's right to have leaders who are conducting their lives in a manner consistent with the teachings that their institutions profess. Why do you go to church and knowingly abet him in maintaining a coverup? He's not just a regular Joe, he's in a leadership position, for crying out loud! If you don't want to be treated this way, why do you stand for it? It is not a LoveBuster to make clear what you will not stand for. Instead, you are fuzzing the line, being the "good wife." You've already bent over backwards for him by not marching up to the pulpit and telling the truth.

He is the pastor and yes the one wife concept is believed. What I want most of all is just the acknowledgement from him that there is/was an emotional affair. I believe that we can"t really rebuild without addressing this. He believes that because we had issues before this all erupted the "friendship" is not relevant. So I guess I'm just stuck right now. I need to be able to feel like we're on the same page. They give me the impression that they're both in denial about their "friendship". By the way my supscipions about her intentions have been confirmed. I'm trying to keep the faith but sometimes feel as if a seperation may be best. Tuesday will really let me know how to further proceed. This should be an interesting therapy/counselling session.

c411, if you continue with 'exposure-lite' this affair will continue, and they'll figure out crafty ways to go so far underground with it that you'll simply look foolish.

This guy is a PASTOR???? Does your church have a Church Board, and Oversight Board, anything like that? You've got to get this info to them. Do you realize that your H has placed them in a position of HUGE liability? As well as himself??

In addition, this exposure to the church is easily the best weapon you'll get to end this A. I would not delay. But remember: when you expose to your local-level Board, you need to go to your 'main church office/mother church" and expose there as well. I'm sorry, I don't know your faith so I can't tell you a specific office. The main office. Synod, someone help me with this one, please.

c411, since this is a pastor, you have a higher obligation to go to his head pastor or to the board. A pastor who has affairs with his flock is unfit to be a pastor. He is a fox in the henhouse. He is abusing his position of authority to exploit female parisioners and will not stop unless you help him.

Secondly, either the OW or him has to leave that church or the affair will continue.

You have a short window of opportunity here to kill this affair and I hope you take it. To do nothing ensures the affair will become more and more entrenched. Sitting in a counseling office is waste of time.

We are baptist and there's really not any type of accountability when it comes to this stuff. She is not a member of the church so he's not the fox in the henhouse. These 2 work for the same employer. I am spent with this whole drama and have decided that seperation at this point will be best. You can't make an adult do the right thing so I must do what's best for my mental and physical health. There are so many layers to all of this and I'm exhausted trying to do this on my own. Thanks for all the tips and advice I now must take the time to heal and restore my dignity.

How do I survive during the holiday season? I really want to just be alone but we're both off from work until Jan. 4th. I have so many mixed or just emotions in general going on. I did buy gifts to give but feel like I'm the only one making an effort. The therapist did say that I have to at least acknowledge his efforts. What if I don't feel like there are any? I guess I want some sort of sign besides mere words that he wants to be here. Maybe I'm just a dreamer. Merry Christmas to everyone!

So are you still living together in the same house? No separation?

And she is not a member of the church but works there? What is her job?

Does he say he wants to be there with you & the kids? He thinks he's trying and you can't see it? Ask him in ways does he feel he's trying, showing you he cares? Have you let him know what YOU need?

c411, in most Baptist churches there is a church board that can hold him accountable. Since he is a pastor, the board needs to know he is unfit for leadership. Can you speak to the church deacons? A pastor who is fallen IS a fox in the henhouse and other church members need to know it too.

Another thing you can do is expose to the affair to his employer, his family, her family and your close friends. There is much you can do to kill this affair. That is the best thing you can do for your healing: kill the affair by exposing it wide and far!

What efforts? That might be good if you see some efforts, but more importantly you should be exposing this affair wide and far. Everyone should know. Your children, everyone. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting it out there will ruin the fantasy.

The Baptist churches that I am familiar with would run him out of the pulpit. However, I also know that there can be a good ol' boy hierarchy, so you'll want to tell as many people in authority as you can, not just the head pastor.

@nerlycrzy- They both work at the same place of employment. She has shown up at a couple church functions. Yes we still live in the same house.
As far as exposing I have done damage and can't afford to stay in that frame of mind. It's not worth putting my physical health in jeopardy. What I did lesrn from the therapy session is that he has many issues going on. Per the therapist before even trying to address our marriage she has to desl with him first. I still speak my mind about how I'm feeling and how he's made me feel. I sm cordial which for me is quite the feat. I have to go away to see about our oldest child and totally looking forward to this.

c411, what does this mean exactly? Unless the issue is alcoholism or addiction or insanity, there is nothing to deal with and this is just a distraction. Most therapists don't have the slightest idea how to save a marriage, much less understand the dynamics of adultery.

Exposure is the most effective tool in breaking up an affair, c411. Many of us here have saved our marriages doing this. It is only damaging to the affair, not to you or your marriage.

I'm so very sorry you find yourself here.


I want to share a few things about myself that I hope may help you in your battle.

First, I'm a Born Again Christian. When this occured in my life I willingly agreed to wear a brightly lit target on my entire body that the enemy would easily see.

Second, I'm a former cheating spouse.

My adultery was a choice I made. Though tempted, I willingly chose the path that led to my own destruction. My wife didn't get to vote! She became the victim of my adultery.

When my affair was discovered by my wife, she hesitated exposing the affair, knowing how nasty I might be as a result. She was allowing her fear to rule.

When she finally did expose, I was furious! I lashed out in any way I could to make her look bad..... BUT...

MY sin was no longer in the dark....
MY sin was no longer being hidden from those that could minister to her and our children....
MY sin was no longer a dirty little secret....
MY sin no longer available for satan to freely run with....

The Lords people could now openly & specifically pray for me....

Exposure will make a wayward angry, but without exposure a wayward remains in the free reigning grasp of darkness.

Shed a bit of light on sin and it runs for a place to hide.


Now for the most important point I'd like to share about myself...

I've been to many counselors through the years.... They were great in allowing me to remain self centered, selfish, and a poor victim of all my past.... Just the excuses I needed to remain a wayward. I was encouraged to be a prodigal son by all these therapists and counselors...

The only hope I had was the prayers of God's people!

Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy... He thrives on darkness and retreats from the light.

I will pray for you and yours. I will pray that a little light exposes it's way into your world.

It took months before the scales fell from mine own eyes...
It's been over three years now and we are recovering our marriage one day at a time...

God Bless

Whhoo, boy. They work together? And you're leaving him here alone with her to go see your oldest child??

c411, I'm convinced that most therapists are in that job because they flunked out of whatever they really wanted to do. You are obviously not working with a pro-MB therapist. Can you call Dr. Harley? Therapists who encourage their clients to gaze into the fuzzy past and work on childhood issues are wasting time when the real problem is the affair.

Actually the therapist's approach is that he will stop blaming others for choices he's made and take responsibility for them. What I've learned is that I can't live wondering if they are talking. I went to see about our first grandchild who was born with congenital heart disease. My physical health is a priority- I have lupus and had brain surgery 2 years ago. Thankfully the lupus has been dormant since diagnosis. I wish this hadn't happen but it did so I deal with it. All I can do is take one day at a time.