To keep this short, I am a recovering WW who got pregnant from OM. After exposing everything to my BH and establishing NC with OM, my BH wanted to stay together and raise OC together, although we are currently dealing with OM trying to get rights. We're still in the middle of all that.
My issue at large is my recovering M. Despite efforts to work on our M, my BH seems to have nothing but anger toward me. I understand that I have destroyed his trust and broken his heart, but we are not building any love back, and I'm worried that it will never come back. How long does it take before he can tell me he loves me? How long before he'll touch me? How long before we can have a normal conversation? I know I've wronged him beyond measure, but if we are all so miserable, what are we gaining in staying together? Anyone who has lived through this and can offer some hope, please help!
Some questions...
how old are you guys?
do you have any other kids together?
where did you meet this OM?
does he live close?
How long did the affair last?
is the om married? or g/f?
who knows about the affair?
And WHY ON EARTH DID YOU NOT USE PROTECTION??
Ty
We are in our 30s, no other kids, and the OM is a long-time friend from college. OM lives mere minutes away, and it lasted the duration of my pregnancy then ended swiftly. OM is divorced and no one but my BH knows about the A (at BH's request). Had I planned the A, I would have used protection. But it was a heat of the moment thing, and my OC resulted.
Btw, my BH ADORES the OC, loves her more than life itself. But if he's only staying with me because of OC, well, our M is doomed, because one day OC will move out and it'll be just us two. I want our M to be out of love for each other, not obligation. And I don't want to be punished for the rest of my life, even though I deserve that. I just can't listen to the cussing, the anger, the blame, the insults day after day after day. I'm going nuts.
OK if you really want to help your marriage do the following things...
Read everything you can on this site, get the book surviving and affair and do the questionnaire with your BH.
Expose the affair to everyone you know family,friends and apolagize to his family on what you have done to your DH. If this affair has not been exposed to so does everyone think the baby is his?? If so that is WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG!! Everyone needs to know about this OC and your affair, if not then there is no recovery.
Put your house up for sale and move to another state. This will eliminate all the triggers your husband is having from the affair.
Call the harleys and schedule and appt with him.
Write a NC letter to the OM and have your BH send it.
Answer all the questions your husband ask concerning the affair making sure he has EVERY detail!
I want to leave you with this quote my MIL told me after I cheated....
"You can always choose your actions, but you can NEVER NEVER choose the consequences."
wanthealing, there is a chance that there is too much resentment for him to overcome. That is something he needs to consider. This might be beyond his ability to endure.
Is the OM trying to get shared custody? That is something that could be keeping your husband triggered.
Would he come here and speak to us?
We've gotten the books, but my BH has no desire to read them. So I'm reading them myself for now, hoping he'll eventually want to join me in that effort.
My BH does not want to expose the A. I've begged him to do so, but he does not want to. So, POJA would mean that I can't do it unless BH agrees, right?
We've talked about moving, but legally we can't until we settle our court issues with OC. But it's something I've encouraged we do so that we can get a fresh start and get away from OM.
Letter of NC has been done.
All my BH's questions have been answered in full.
And your MIL sure is right about that!
Have you asked your BH to read MB articles or materials?
What has been going on with the legal issues?
17 pages is too much to read so I'm sorry to have to ask again.
Maybe you can use a post script as others do here.
What was the time line of your BH finding out you had an affair, the day NC started, when you were pregnant with OM child, to now?
Many a BH go through an anger phase after the affair has been over for six months.
Why not leave the computer on at MB. This way your BH curiosity may get the best of him and he can fine some Harley articles?
Or as you read an article say to BH there's this story here that is what were going through.
Being the OM lives so close has your BH seen OM?
As to the legal wrangling this can definitly be triggering your BH. There he is sitting and stewing of whether the OM is going to be in or out of your lives forever.
ML, yes OM is trying to get joint custody, which is a huge trigger. But that's out of my control, unfortunately. We are duking it out in court. I'm even working a second job so that the legal fees don't hurt us financially. I've asked BH to join the forum but he has no desire to. I think he's shut down all emotions but hatred and anger.
Tell your BH that there are those of us on the site that understand what hes going through, and there is help here.
Everything hes feeling we can relate to. We are all strangers, but this place is a huge help. Even if he just wants to read for a bit.
I've asked BH to join the forum but he has no desire to. I think he's shut down all emotions but hatred and anger.
wanthealing, go over and read wolfpackgurls thread on InRecovery. She had an affair and her H is in complete withdrawal. She called Dr Harley and he told her that this will take time and she needs to bide her time and ride this out.
I think that advise applies somewhat. The difference is that your H is actually being abusive. That has to stop. If he doesn't stop the abuse, then you might need to consider separating first.
I am very sympathetic to him and wonder if the damage done to him is just too much. If that is the case, he needs to consider his future with you. That is why I was hoping he would come here.
And you know you can always talk to Dr Harley again. That might be your best bet. He might have some good ideas and might even be able to speak to your husband.
I agree he should get on here
Does your family and friends think the kid is his?
Are you going to lie to this child for the rest of your life?
This is a very tragic situation in all respects.
The victim here is the BH and the child.
First, paternity needs to be established.
If your H came on here and explained he was a BH with no kids and might have a wife pregnant with OC, I would advise him to run in the other direction and find himself a woman who wouldn't cheat and let the OM and you deal with the consequences of the affair.
That's the blunt truth.
However, your H wants to stay and raise OC. I don't know if that's commendable or not. All I know is that I couldn't do it myself.
Paternity needs to be established with DNA unless it's a situation that is blatantly obvious, such as a child of mixed race when the parents are both of one race.
I think that there are few good answers to your situation. I know I would fight for custody if I was the OM and knew that was my child.
I'm a champion of father's rights. I think any man who wishes to be a father to his child should have that right. How the child was conceived truly is irrelevant. The child has a right to his parents.
Several OC posted to you and they all seem to have some degree of desire to know their true father.
How do you help your H? There needs to be an end to the custody situation. Odds are high that the child will be considered a child of the marriage and that might end everything.
There is also a good chance that he might be given rights to visitation.
At that point I would suggest that unless he's a drug addict or a bad father that you settle in some way because it will end the conflict. Dragging out a custody fight will keep your H triggered.
Ending the conflict will bring peace to everyone.
Once custody is established, it becomes a situation similar to marrying someone who had kids already (from your H's standpoint).
You and him will have your time together while the child is with her father and you guys will have time with the child when it is your time with her.
If the court comes back and says that he has rights, then you will only be hurting your chances at recovery if you drag out the court battle. Offer him a weeknight and every other weekend arrangement with him paying CS and be done with the litigation.
Your H will be stuck in his healing so long as you are in litigation.
The sad reality is that he may never heal at all.
But if you wish to save your marriage you need to end the litigation ASAP if he is given rights to custody in his appeal.
If I had a woman come to me and tell me to shirk my rights as a father in order to have the OC raised without me in my life I'd tell her to go to he11. By your logic, you should just give him the child and surrender your rights as a mother.
Pretty preposterous a suggestion, no? That's what he feels when you tell him to give up his rights as a father.
I am a recovering WW who got pregnant from OM
What are you recovering from?
I know I've wronged him beyond measure, but if we are all so miserable, what are we gaining in staying together?
Good question. I would advise your husband to leave and find someone that won�t cheat and give him another man�s child as his firstborn.
It�s always a pain, isn�t it, when a betrayed spouse just can�t get over it quickly enough to suit the WS? Why can�t they just get with the program?!!
Want, you should stick to one thread. If you want to stay over here, click notify and ask the mods to merge your threads. So everyone else will be up to speed, I've linked your other thread.
Other Thread First off, you are WAYYYY early into this. In your other thread you talk about still thinking about and wanting the OM.
Your BH probably IS angry and probably KNOWS that this is how you feel.
You're a new mom dealing with a very serious issue in your marriage.
If you could convince your BH to come here and post we may be able to help him. But give the guy a break, you were involved in your A during your ENTIRE pregnancy and now, just as recently as November, you're still thinking about and wanting OM.
You allude to abuse in your other thread. If there is abuse going on, then you need to protect yourself.
I'm a champion of father's rights. I think any man who wishes to be a father to his child should have that right. How the child was conceived truly is irrelevant. The child has a right to his parents.
I'm a champion of father's rights. I think any man who wishes to be a father to his child should have that right. How the child was conceived truly is irrelevant. The child has a right to his parents.
Wrong, courts are still ruling that an OM has no rights when his OW is married.
Several OC posted to you and they all seem to have some degree of desire to know their true father.
More have posted that they have no desire to meet their bio dad. Those that did many have regretted and let the relationship die.
How do you help your H? There needs to be an end to the custody situation. Odds are high that the child will be considered a child of the marriage and that might end everything.
This is a legal matter that can not be rushed for convenience to prevent triggers.
There is also a good chance that he might be given rights to visitation.
Duh, this is why their still in court.
At that point I would suggest that unless he's a drug addict or a bad father that you settle in some way because it will end the conflict. Dragging out a custody fight will keep your H triggered.
Ending the conflict will bring peace to everyone.
If this is a legal matter, and the best thing is for NC with the OM for everyone else there is no point to give up and allow OM to stay in their lives. Their marriage will not recover.
And Dr H believes that there must be NC when there is an OC.
Once custody is established, it becomes a situation similar to marrying someone who had kids already (from your H's standpoint).
What are you smoking? An OC is no way the same or similar to a step child.
You and him will have your time together while the child is with her father and you guys will have time with the child when it is your time with her.
Put down that blunt.
If the court comes back and says that he has rights, then you will only be hurting your chances at recovery if you drag out the court battle. Offer him a weeknight and every other weekend arrangement with him paying CS and be done with the litigation.
Never tell a person to not exhaust all legal means to defend their family.
Your H will be stuck in his healing so long as you are in litigation.
Picked up that blunt again because your just repeating your bad advice.
The sad reality is that he may never heal at all.
True his WW�s first child will never be the BH�s.
But if you wish to save your marriage you need to end the litigation ASAP if he is given rights to custody in his appeal.
Sure you smoke some but never inhale.
If I had a woman come to me and tell me to shirk my rights as a father in order to have the OC raised without me in my life I'd tell her to go to he11. By your logic, you should just give him the child and surrender your rights as a mother.
This is your opinion and valid to feel that way. Feelings and legal are not the same. As an OM his intrusion in a marriage has no legal standing. The laws of presumption clearly state that a child conceived with a married woman will be considered her BH�s under the law.
So as if you were willing to be an OM , knowing such, you would have no legal right to have any contact and or level of custody, or parenting, you can�t complain legally that the WW, BH, and the courts will not recognize you as the dad and not grant you any rights.
Pretty preposterous a suggestion, no? That's what he feels when you tell him to give up his rights as a father.
Very preposterous that a OM knowing he has know legal standing if he gets a WW pregnant and then complains that the courts will keep him out of the OC�s life, but the OM knocks her up anyway.
Road,
All valid points. This is a situation where there are no easy answers. You�re also right that raising an OC isn�t the same as raising a step child.
But putting the entire blame for this on OM is wrong. Setting aside the circumstances of the conception, the father has a right to the child as much as the mother does.
There�s another side to all of this. If OM disappears, then the BH is stuck with raising a kid that isn�t his and is forced to pay CS if there is a divorce (I give it a 95% chance of that).
How is that fair to the BH? Why should he pay to raise a child that isn�t his?
Again, there are no easy resolutions to any of this.
She could give OC to OM. That would end it, but then a child doesn�t have his/her mother.
She could keep fighting the legal fight, but odds are high OM won�t just be shut out, nor should he.
She could free her husband. That would be very noble, in my opinion.
It�s easy to bash the OM for getting involved with a WW. Let�s not forget the WW. They are equally at fault. If anything, SHE is more at fault since she should have known better and stuck to her vows.
But all of that is moot.
There is a child, who is caught in the crossfire. That child has a right to a relationship with her parents. BH is not her father. He may be a great step dad. But in the end, he�s not her father and has zero obligation to her, unless, of course, he decides he doesn�t want to stay married. At that point, he�s stuck paying for a child that isn�t his.
It�s a nightmare and there are no easy solutions.
So to stay married, I think that the litigation needs to be settled ASAP. OM doesn�t have to communicate all that much with WW in raising this child. He can do all his pickups and drop offs with a third party, such as a school or daycare.
I concede that NC for life is the best option to save the marriage, but that�s not really an option here since there is a child involved.
I don�t agree that OM should disappear. He is a father who wants to be a part of his child�s life. They both have that right. If you think he should disappear, then you can also advocate that she simply give him OC so he can leave forever.
Neither option is palatable. But that�s the worst consequence of adultery.
I think that advise applies somewhat. The difference is that your H is actually being abusive. That has to stop. If he doesn't stop the abuse, then you might need to consider separating first.
I think we need to know what she means by he's angry and full of hate before we call him abusive. Or is there another thread where his abuse is cataloged?
If this is all you are going on to say he's abusive, I contend he may be the only sane and logical person in the marriage at this point. Someone who has suffered the emotional abuse of an affair is going to be RIGHTLY angry and possibly hate his abuser.
Scripture tells us we are to be angry, but do not sin. Therefore, anger itself is not sin. We are also told to hate sin, and infidelity is certainly a sin, so anger is justified as well.
Seems like he's having a pretty natural reaction to the abuse he's experienced. I respectfully request you choose your words more carefully. Remember, her husband is the victim and she's the abuser from what I'm reading in this thread.
PS I liked what Joyce and Dr H reportedly said in response to her complaint about a controlling husband. That it was likely a good thing since she had poor boundaries and made bad decisions.
So while many would call controlling a bad thing, it seems there are cases where someone who "appears" controlling is actually doing the marriage a favor. Now the spouse who thinks she's being controlled has a choice to make. How will she view those "controlling" tendencies? Will she see the good, or just use them to justify her bad behavior?
Ditto for the angry spouse. If he's angry, that's good, it means he cares about what has happened. If he wasn't angry, I'd be worried.
Has a paternity test been done?
Perhaps I should clarify a few things. Some of you are arguing that I'm being unreasonable to expect my BH to suddenly be okay, but even Dr. Harley advised my BH to stop the angry outbursts so that we can start healing our M. I'm not saying that I've earned my BH's favor and trust yet; that may take years. I can live under BH's rules and happily meet any demand he makes of me. What I am having a hard time accepting is punching and kicking inanimate objects, hitting the dog because he's upset, screaming and cussing around the baby...things like that. My BH is not a person to take things lying down, and he plans to fight this until the end to keep OM away. But I don't want the battle to be waged in our M as well. I want to support each other and unite as we go through this. Maybe my expectations are unrealistic to hope that he could heal faster, but he gets so full of rage I'm actually afraid. And I don't know how to stop the triggers.
We do not plan to lie to our OC. But BH isn't ready for exposure yet; he wants to wait until all the court stuff is done.
And someone suggested not running around the house doing stuff, which I will take that advice, since maybe spending more time relaxing with BH will help things. Good advice!
I don't want to sound like a whiny WW lacking humility or empathy for BH. Trust me, I am far too aware of my sin and the pain I've caused. Every day I try to do something to show love, adoration, and romance to my BH. But living with the angry outbursts gets harder each day.
But all of that is moot.
There is a child, who is caught in the crossfire. That child has a right to a relationship with her parents. BH is not her father. He may be a great step dad. But in the end, he�s not her father and has zero obligation to her, unless, of course, he decides he doesn�t want to stay married. At that point, he�s stuck paying for a child that isn�t his.
It�s a nightmare and there are no easy solutions.
So to stay married, I think that the litigation needs to be settled ASAP. OM doesn�t have to communicate all that much with WW in raising this child. He can do all his pickups and drop offs with a third party, such as a school or daycare.
I concede that NC for life is the best option to save the marriage, but that�s not really an option here since there is a child involved.
I don�t agree that OM should disappear. He is a father who wants to be a part of his child�s life. They both have that right. If you think he should disappear, then you can also advocate that she simply give him OC so he can leave forever.
Neither option is palatable. But that�s the worst consequence of adultery.
This poster should follow Dr Harley's advice, htld, and not yours. You have made your views clear, but you are not a marriage expert with vast experience of helping couples with OCs.
Dr Harley gives advice for couples who want to rebuild their marriages. He is not concerned with the rights of OMs. His experience of working with a large number of couples has shown that the best way to rebuild the marriage in a FWW with OC situation is for there to be NC between OC and OM. If the BH wants to rebuild his marriage, then the most successful way for him to do this is for him to treat OC as his own, and forgo CS.
This BH has made it clear that this is what he wishes to do. He has told FWW that he wants exclusive fatherhood over the child. He does not want CS from OM because that would make him permanently resentful. He loves the child and feels he can be her father if OM is cut out completely.
As I understand it, most states in the USA give him up to two years from the birth to change his mind and challenge paternity, so he has about another 18 months to see whether his feelings change. He is not yet stuck with a child that has been forced on him, and in contrast to another of your statements, he does not want his wife to "free him". He has been very clear that he does not want her to go.
OM is not the father of this child; the law says that the H is. The bio-father and the bio-mother do not have the same rights to parenting.
Biological motherhood is established by the fact of the child growing in the woman's body. It is born with the umbilical cord attached. Motherhood can be witnessed. We have given women rights over their children because, for as long as our species has existed, and long before DNA tests existed, motherhood could be established as a material fact.
Biological fatherhood could not be witnessed or established in the same way. Societies have therefore come to an agreement that the father is the man who is married to the mother; on marrying her, he agrees that he will be the father to her children.
If a MM feels that he is NOT the father to his wife's children, then he has to make a case for why he isn't. DNA tests make this easy these days. However, society has not yet agreed that a man who is not the married woman's husband can force society to recognise him as the father. He cannot impose a DNA test on a married couple, where the husband has not rejected that child as his.
This OM has already lost a case to force a DNA test. He is now appealing. There is no reason that this couple should give him what he wants without a court ruling - especially when it is likely that the higher court will endorse the lower court's decision and reject OM's claim.
You argue that the litigation "needs to be settled" as soon as possible for the marriage to begin recovery, as if it is the married couple's interest that you are concerned with. What you seem to mean is that the couple should agree OM's claim and end the litigation themselves, without a judge's ruling. What you are proposing is that they give up on their very good chance of winning the case and give OM what you believe is rightfully his. You seem to be defending his interests and not theirs.
Litigation cannot go on forever, so there is no need for them to give up their fight. If OM loses this case then there will be a limit to how many times he can keep challenging the decision of courts. At some point, he will not be allowed to appeal any more, and this couple will be able to bring up their child with NC and no involvement with him, as Dr Harley recommends for an OC marriage to survive.
According to Dr Harley, the chances of divorce actually INCREASE if OM is given visitation, because in that way, he will be in their lives on a weekly basis. Using an IM for visits does not remove the fact that every week, this child will be taken from its family and made to spend time with the BH's enemy - OM. This BH has already told his wife that he cannot cope with visitation. He wants complete fatherhood.
Your suggestion that they should give in, IN ADVANCE of a court's ruling, and arrange visits will increase their chance of divorce. Your suggestion is great for OM's rights, but disastrous for the marriage.
The OM does not have "father's rights" in this case. If he wanted to be a father, then the mother of the child that he sees as his should not have been married to someone else. He is not the father in the eyes of the law, and until a court decides otherwise, he
has no rights.
I hope the FWW follows Dr Harley's advice and not yours. You seem to be giving advice based on how you would feel if you were an OM. Most people here want to benefit from Dr Harley's advice for protecting and rebuilding marriages.
If this poster is forced to put the child through a DNA test, then CS and visitation will be out of her hands, but until and unless that happens, this couple should not give in to OM's demands and should forgo CS and visitation. There is no place on MB for the recognition of the rights of OMs.
Perhaps I should clarify a few things. Some of you are arguing that I'm being unreasonable to expect my BH to suddenly be okay, but even Dr. Harley advised my BH to stop the angry outbursts so that we can start healing our M. I'm not saying that I've earned my BH's favor and trust yet; that may take years. I can live under BH's rules and happily meet any demand he makes of me. What I am having a hard time accepting is punching and kicking inanimate objects, hitting the dog because he's upset, screaming and cussing around the baby...things like that. My BH is not a person to take things lying down, and he plans to fight this until the end to keep OM away. But I don't want the battle to be waged in our M as well. I want to support each other and unite as we go through this. Maybe my expectations are unrealistic to hope that he could heal faster, but he gets so full of rage I'm actually afraid. And I don't know how to stop the triggers.
We do not plan to lie to our OC. But BH isn't ready for exposure yet; he wants to wait until all the court stuff is done.
And someone suggested not running around the house doing stuff, which I will take that advice, since maybe spending more time relaxing with BH will help things. Good advice!
I don't want to sound like a whiny WW lacking humility or empathy for BH. Trust me, I am far too aware of my sin and the pain I've caused. Every day I try to do something to show love, adoration, and romance to my BH. But living with the angry outbursts gets harder each day.
Dr Harley also advises not to have affairs, and yet you persisted for quite a while in an affair. So cut your husband the same amount of slack you gave yourself when you allowed yourself to remain in your affair for months.
I would argue that one aspect of the affair is on-going since the OM is still pursuing a form of contact via the OC channel.
As long as that's on-going, it's going to have a very similar if not the same effect as if there were continued affair contact.
I don't know how to stop the triggers either, since the OM actions are likely a significant barrier to allowing the healing to begin.
I think your unrealistic expectation is that healing hasn't even begun and likely will not until OM is out of the picture, period.
I agree with the advice above, don't take any short-cuts in the legal fight. Work to ensure the OM is completely out of your lives. Then and only then does the affair time clock and and only then can healing for your BH even begin.
As long as this is on-going, he hasn't even begun to heal, and needs to given the benefit of the doubt as result of the circumstance.
With that said, be sure that you and the child are safe.
I also agree he needs to come here and talk to some folks who've gone through this before. He likely also needs a local mentor (male) who can shepherd him through this. Someone he can trust to keep this in strict confidence, but who will also give him good advice and hold him accountable for his actions.
Thank you, Sugarcane.
You are correct that no DNA test has been done yet. My BH doesn't care about bio; he wants OC for life, no matter what happens between us. But even after I gave him an "out" and offered to walk away and let him have everything, BH still wants to stay M. We really do love each other. (I know, I know...my A did not demonstrate that, but I messed up big-time and am trying to be a better W; that's why vows have "for better or worse." We're in the "worse" part, but my BH is willing to stick through it, God bless him.) He truly has forgiven me; I know that. His angry outbursts are not because of the PA; they are directed at the OM. Let me explain:
BH will see OC smile and coo and suddenly BH gets angry that OM will "take OC away." Then he punches a hole in the wall (we're running out of plaster!) and cusses and gets angry and rants about killing OM right then and there. I try to soothe him, he gets angry at me for letting this happen, then I cry and apologize and say I wish I could fix it. Eventually I have to go back to focusing on the baby while BH broods. This is the daily routine, while the baby is watching this and the dog is cowering under the table.
I want to survive this A. My BH wants to survive it. But his fear of our lives--our family dynamic--changing takes over and creates a monster within him.
And btw, if OM ends up getting anything, there will absolutely be NC ever--for life--between me and OM. Dr. Harley is 100% right about keeping OM away, and it works.
Then you know that you can't soothe him, and perhaps you are making things worse by reminding him you too are a party to the affair.
If he's mad at the OM, let him be mad at the OM. Seems the way you describe how this plays out, your "soothing" does the opposite.
I agree, he needs a better coping mechanism.
See if he will come here and ask for some suggestions from some BH's to see if he'll listen to what others have to offer. He's not in a state to listen to you and as you've described, at this point in time, it's unlikely you can soothe him or make things better for him, and perhaps you make things worse with your attempts.
I realize that's not your goal, but it is your current reality.
Well said, Enlightened. I need to let him vent and just keep supporting him through this. I never expected BH to forgive me for what I've done, and I owe him my life for that forgiveness. The least I can do is let him have his rage until the smoke clears.
Hello Dads,
The problem with the OM wanting to CONTINUE to interfere in their M is that he is an interloper that has no more right to the OC than a shoplifter has to demand a warranty on an item he has stolen form a store...
If the WW had not TOLD him that she was pregnant he would have ZERO chance of visitation to the OC because all children of the M are presumed to be the H's.
To say he should have ANY rights to the OC based simply on the fact that because she TOLD him she might be pregnant when he would NOT have if she had not is ridiculous.
He was not included in their contract of marriage and should not be entitled to be involved in their M in any way, shape or form.
The OM broke into the BH's LEGAL CONTRACT OF MARRIAGE and assisted the WW in becoming pregnant without his permission or consent VIOLATING THE LEGAL CONTRACT OF MARRIAGE the BH had with his W for exclusive rights of paternity in the M.
When two people have signed a contract and an interloper attempts to gain control of anything already contracted for by the contract whether present or in the future they have no rights.
One question for you...
If the OM had donated semen as a sperm donor and the WW had broken into the storage facility and STOLEN the semen and had impregnated herself without his permission or consent...
Would you think that the sperm donor should be forced to pay child support and be forced to be a father as it was an act without his permission or consent just as much as the WW getting pregnant without the BH's consent by the OM was?
The OM was a sperm donor...
that's all...
NOT a father.
God bless.
Jim
Thank you, Sugarcane.
You are correct that no DNA test has been done yet. My BH doesn't care about bio; he wants OC for life, no matter what happens between us. But even after I gave him an "out" and offered to walk away and let him have everything, BH still wants to stay M. We really do love each other. (I know, I know...my A did not demonstrate that, but I messed up big-time and am trying to be a better W; that's why vows have "for better or worse." We're in the "worse" part, but my BH is willing to stick through it, God bless him.) He truly has forgiven me; I know that. His angry outbursts are not because of the PA; they are directed at the OM. Let me explain:
BH will see OC smile and coo and suddenly BH gets angry that OM will "take OC away." Then he punches a hole in the wall (we're running out of plaster!) and cusses and gets angry and rants about killing OM right then and there. I try to soothe him, he gets angry at me for letting this happen, then I cry and apologize and say I wish I could fix it. Eventually I have to go back to focusing on the baby while BH broods. This is the daily routine, while the baby is watching this and the dog is cowering under the table.
I want to survive this A. My BH wants to survive it. But his fear of our lives--our family dynamic--changing takes over and creates a monster within him.
And btw, if OM ends up getting anything, there will absolutely be NC ever--for life--between me and OM. Dr. Harley is 100% right about keeping OM away, and it works.
I think this is the best reason to cut OM out of OC and BH life. If he is the trigger for his AO, then get rid of him. There is no reason for OM to be part of your families life period. He is still causing strife in your marriage. Your life is not a sitcom where there are three parents.
Did you tell Dr. Harley that your husband was punching holes in walls? That is an AO on steroids. You have hurt your husband, no doubt, but be prepared to separate from him if this escalates.
My first husband hit walls, cursed, and threw things.... then one day he decided to pick me up and throw me into a wall. Dr. Harley doesn't advocate staying in abusive situations, wayward or not.
My first husband hit walls, cursed, and threw things.... then one day he decided to pick me up and throw me into a wall. Dr. Harley doesn't advocate staying in abusive situations, wayward or not.
Amen to this. If he is doing this, then it is separation time, wanthealing. I fully sympathize with your husband, but like I said before, this trauma may be too great for him for overcome. And that is ok, I know I could not deal with the ongoing reminders of the OP myself.
And I wanted to post Dr Harley's opinion about contact in these situations. He is adamant that all contact end for life:
I am revising SAA and it should be in print sometime in 2011, and the problem you raise will be included in it. But it's particularly difficult to address because of our no-contact-with-the-ex-lover rule on the one hand, and the need of a child to have contact with their natural parents on the other. Our radio archives have more on this subject than anything I've written so far, because we've had several listeners call in with this problem, and I describe the approach I take.
As you probably already know by now, I tilt toward keeping the marriage healthy at the possible expense of the child not having adequate contact with the OM. I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. That makes your husband the legal parent of the child. If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.
In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.
Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation.
Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
Thanks for finding this letter, Mel. I didn't have time to look it up after my time-consuming post above!
i would highlight another passage as well, that seems pertinent to this couple's situation:
I am revising SAA and it should be in print sometime in 2011, and the problem you raise will be included in it. But it's particularly difficult to address because of our no-contact-with-the-ex-lover rule on the one hand, and the need of a child to have contact with their natural parents on the other. Our radio archives have more on this subject than anything I've written so far, because we've had several listeners call in with this problem, and I describe the approach I take.
As you probably already know by now, I tilt toward keeping the marriage healthy at the possible expense of the child not having adequate contact with the OM. I recommend that at the time of birth, the other man not be mentioned on the birth certificate unless he demands it. That makes your husband the legal parent of the child. If he does demand being on the birth certificate, I recommend that he pay child support until the child is 19. If the OM wants visitation, I recommend that it be done with transparency, so his own family knows what's going on. A mediator, paid by him, is to pick up and deliver the child so that you and your husband never have to have any contact with him.
In almost all cases that I've witnessed, the OM isn't willing to be named on the birth certificate, pay the child support, or make the situation known to his family. Under those conditions, I highly suggest that he not be able to visit his child until he or she is an adult. If an attempt is made, I suggest getting a restraining order. While that policy seems very rigid and uncaring toward the child, the alternatives are usually disastrous. Having an old lover around, the cause of your husband's greatest sadness, has such an devastating effect on the marriage that few survive.
Having heard from some of the couples who have followed this way of thinking, and others who have done the opposite, I am confident that it is the best approach to your situation.
Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
The OM in this case is "demanding" contact, but this should not be granted simply because he "demands" it. He is going through the courts; let them decide. Given the law on the marriage and paternity, and ESPECIALLY given that OM has already lost a case in a lower court, the odds are strongly in favour of his demand being rejected by the court.
Dr Harley works to restore and protect marriages. The best interest of this child is for her to be brought up in a strong, loving marriage that is protected from interlopers. The BH is offering her that future.
OM might also say that he can offer this too, but the FWW knows that he is not husband material. He didn't respect her marriage when he had an affair with her - and neither did she - and he still does not respect it now. If he regretted his adultery he would leave them alone and wish the child well. He doesn't regret it, and he wants to continue to interfere in his victim's (the BH's) life. He is a terrible choice for marriage, and while FWW has recently struggled with feelings for him, she doesn't want to marry him. She wants to stay with her H and he with her. They can restore their marriage by cutting out OM altogether.
Does your Atty have any idea how long this case should go on? weeks? months?
I hope you can get rid of him.
I too hope you can get rid of the OM. And for the record....the "true father" is the father who loves and raises a child....otherwise I had no "true parents" growing up since I am adopted. Sorry, but that is one of my big pet peeves. DNA is NOT everything. Period.
Want, I am also a FWW. We had no OC, but my DH also was very angry and very hurt, which is to be expected. He never hit our dog or put holes in the wall, but he did have outbursts....which is something that never happened at any other time during our M. Definitely if you are in danger, you should take action. However, I do think that learning of a spouse's A awakes emotions in people that are very raw.
The things that helped us were time, humility on my part, establishing EP's - which will be hard with the OM and all the legal stuff. But I would not have one iota of contact with OM unless it cannot be legally avoided. And when it does all get resolved, I would get as far away from OM as possible.
As far as exposing, I may be speaking out of school here, and Mel can help with this, but I think that as the BS your DH should set the timetable on that. If he is dead against it right now, I wouldn't go nilly willy telling people anyway.
Read Surviving an Affair and his Needs Her Needs, and apply them religiously. Call the Harley's if need be. And learn to discern advice that is coming from the perspective of a trained and successful marriage saving psychologist from advice that is coming from a place of tunnel vision or bitterness. Cling to the former; throw out the latter.
As far as exposing, I may be speaking out of school here, and Mel can help with this, but I think that as the BS your DH should set the timetable on that. If he is dead against it right now, I wouldn't go nilly willy telling people anyway.
Absolutely!! Her BH does not want this information out at this time. Dr Harley talked to wanthealing about this. Her BH is too distraught right now to add to the drama.
His angry outbursts are not because of the PA; they are directed at the OM.
BH will see OC smile and coo and suddenly BH gets angry that OM will "take OC away." Then he punches a hole in the wall (we're running out of plaster!) and cusses and gets angry and rants about killing OM right then and there.
Your H must feel like he is fighting a war with 2 fronts.
A legal battlefront with OM over the beloved child your H adores.
An emotional battlefront to restore the M after adultery.
Men are problem solvers.
I can only imagine H's frustration at being handed serious life altering problems he did not cause, and then feeling he HAS TO come up with the correct solution, all the while trying to achieve personal recovery from adultery.
BEFORE the next angry outburst, speak soothingly to H.
Assure him that the solutions will come in time.
You will be by his side to fight for the child.
Tell H you do not expect H to be an unemotional robot.
Tell him that because it is so frightening, the next attack of inanimate objects (plaster-blaster) will
require that you temporarily leave the home with your child in order to avoid causing unintended fear and anxiety for yourself and the child.
All said calmly.
Not in the heat of the moment.
Not during a crisis.
An announcement.
Not a demand.
Not an expectation that he won't punch the wall, but letting him know your plans for when he does punch the wall.
And, when it (the plaster blasting) happens, you leave. No announcements.
The outbursts will cease if you are consistent doing that.
Take care.
By all of your arguments, the fathers of children should abandon their rights as fathers once a marriage ends because it is best for the children to be with whomever she shacks up with next than to go back and forth between homes.
My point is that the real victim in all of this is the child, who didn�t ask for any of this.
But your arguments are all the ones I heard when my WXW left me. She felt I should just let her have everything so that the kids could have a �stable� upbringing, yet none of this was considered when she was in the midst of her adultery.
Also, by your arguments, I could say that she�s merely an egg donor, and should relinquish her rights as a mother. In fact, by your arguments, she�s nothing more than an incubator and should surrender the child to the OM.
If OM wanted to nothing to do with the baby, then I agree 100% with Dr. H. In fact, what you posted about his thoughts on the matter I still agree 100% with him on everything he said.
By your arguments, I should just walk away, consider myself an egg donor, pay money out of my nose forever, and let my kids settle in and accept the new man in their lives as the interchangeable father.
Sorry, my attitude on fatherhood doesn�t reduce me or other men to the status of sperm donors.
The idea of settling the litigation is based on the OM getting any kind of merit to his DNA claim. If he is granted the right to some degree of recognition as a father, then fighting a long legal battle will not do anyone any favors. Settling would end that conflict and allow the healing to begin. So my advice to settle is contingent on OM getting granted recognition by the court. Dragging out a legal fight will likely not lead to the outcome she desires, since the courts are becoming increasingly friendly to fathers.
I agree with Dr. Harley 100% on what he said. He acknowledged that OM sometimes get visitation rights. So if this OM is fighting for custody, then it is to everyone�s benefit to settle if he�s granted the right to contest.
Spare me the bashing of the OM. He and the WW are equally at fault and should equally deal with the consequences.
BH is out of line in his behavior and is certainly posing a threat. It�s also idiotic to destroy property when he, not the OM, will be the one to have to pay for repairs. I empathize with how he feels, but not with his actions.
The one thing that troubles me is that the question of whether or not this really is the OM�s child has never been addressed. Have you performed a DNA test on the child? The whole thing is rendered moot if the child is not OM�s.
Finally, everyone, don�t get me wrong. I�m by no means either defending the adultery or the OM�s actions with the WW. I do defend his rights as a father. Despite what some of you think, I as a man, will not allow myself or other fathers to be reduced to being �sperm donors� who simply exist in this world to let women have children.
If a man wants to be a part of his child�s life, and there is no reason to deny him that (abuse, drugs, etc), then I believe he has that right as much as a woman does, regardless of her marital status.
These are the consequences of adultery.
I too hope you can get rid of the OM. And for the record....the "true father" is the father who loves and raises a child....otherwise I had no "true parents" growing up since I am adopted. Sorry, but that is one of my big pet peeves. DNA is NOT everything. Period.
By this argument, then I'm not a father since the court didn't grant me primary custody and I only get my kids 40% of the time. My WXW left me and shacked up with someone else she met after our D. Since he treats my kids well and sees them more than I do, does that make him the father?
Sorry, you're dead wrong on that.
I will support any father's right to be a father and find the very notion that men should be the ones to surrender their parental rights as downright sexist.
Wanthealing...This is MARRIAGE BUILDERS.
If you want your thread to be a discussion about MB methods to help your M and NOT become a discussion about "father's rights", you may ask posters to cease and desist and to take their "side bar father's rights" discussion to another thread.
It is UP TO YOU to ask them to stop, if it bothers you.
If they fail to stop after YOU request they stop, hit the "notify" button and report your problem to the mods.
If it does not bother you that your thread is hi-jacked , then there is no problem.
WELCOME TO
MARRIAGE BUILDERS 
Seriously, I think you should move away from the XOM and disappear. I can't imagine how your poor DH feels having to not only see a child you produced in the A, but see the XOM all the time also. I swear that is just too much form a person to take. I know this a MB site but where is the justice and honor in your DH having to look into the eyes of the XOM via the baby every day. The XOW in our case tried to get pg and thank God she didn't because there is no way that I could have stayed M to my FWH if he had an OC during our M. That would be a harsh reminder of the tragedy that he caused in our M.
If you aren't willing to move away and forget about the XOM, I don't hink you deserve to be M to your DH.
I need to let him vent and just keep supporting him through this. I never expected BH to forgive me for what I've done, and I owe him my life for that forgiveness. The least I can do is let him have his rage until the smoke clears.
Your comment above gives me GREAT hope that you have what it takes to make your marriage something really great!
Yes, this is indeed Marriage Builders. But ignoring the consequences of adultery is not doing anyone any favors nor is ignoring the reality that the OM might be the father of this child and has rights if he wishes to pursue them.
Whitewashing the reality not addressing the issues at stake does nothing for anyone.
All of this is the result of adultery and its consequences. Again, please tell me why no one advocates that she relinquish her rights as a mother and give OC to OM?
After all, that would free the BH from having to raise the OC and would allow the WW to go to permanent NC with OM, therefore saving her marriage.
I don�t suggest that because I find it as ridiculous as the argument that the other man should give up his rights as a father.
It�s downright sexist.
There are no easy solutions to this problem at all unless you go to the extreme of advocating that one of the two parents give up their rights as a parent.
That�s simply not the reality and it is the child that pays the price. Please spare me the sexist inputs that men should step aside and give up their rights because a woman decided to go outside of her marriage.
Thank You!!
PLEASE stick to the original topic---
Helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage using MarriageBuilders Concepts & Principles!!
I am a traditional family man myself. I think that by saving the M they can help the OC. The best bet is to work on the marriage first, then the child can know and understand through example what a healthy marriage is so he/she does not make the same mistakes in the future.
We are giving advice to save the marriage. The fathering aspect may have to be left in the courts, but for now, the best way to save the marriage is by cutting out OM. I understand that OM wants to be the father, and the BH wants to be the father too. In my opinion I do not think OM is going through the right channels to be a father, and is already being a bad example of what a father is, and is ruining a family. Why should BH feel any consequences of the affair by letting the OM have custody of a child he is willing to raise as his own?
I would die if only had 50/50 time with my boys. I would fight to the ends of this earth for them, and my FWW knows this.
and he has no regrets for staying with me.
but it's tough to want to stay in a M where you feel despised by your spouse. My BH has never been the emotional type to show affection or say "I love you," but this is just getting borderline abusive. We are all miserable, and for what?
Somewhat contradictory, don�t you think?
Because this really isn't about the OC anymore, rather it's about surviving the A
Wanthealing, I have to say that you are one of the most self deluded women I have ever read here if you actually believe this. Of course, it�s about the OC, it�s going to be about the OC for a very long time, if not permanently.
I'm not going to T/J here about men's rights, but I will give you a different perspective from the viewpoint as a man. Hopefully, that will perhaps let you see what your husband may be thinking and what you are up against, and perhaps gain an insight to determine if you CAN recover your marriage. As one poster mentioned already, for a guy facing a WW with an OC and no COM, even Dr Harley admits it may be best to just cut bait and start over (although he does say recovery is possible). I think you will find that most men agree with this and I will tell you upfront that that is what I would counsel your husband to do. If parts of this come across as being harsh, I will say sorry in advance, but I think you need to know how a lot of men would think.
Let�s summarize your threads. You had an affair and had another man�s child as a result. You strung along both guys, maintaining contact with the OM until November, which is only two months ago, and after you had supposedly decided to stay in your marriage. For most of your original thread you told people how wonderful your husband is and how you don�t deserve him, yada, yada, yada, until it was time to talk with the Harleys whereupon your husband became controlling. According to you, your husband is just hunky-dory with you and the OC, but has this distressing tendency to vocalize and act out in angry outbursts, which of course would lead one to wonder just how ok he really is with what has happened to his life.
Your problem? You�re thinking like a woman, and a very guilty and scared one at that. Perhaps you ought to start thinking like a man. Walk around in your husband�s shoes for a while. You and your husband have been trying to have a child for a while, and have even discussed adoption, but you never mention if you had any medical help with why you were having difficulty conceiving with your husband. Then you have an affair and get pregnant. Your husband goes to your appointments with you and is a very pleased Dad during the pregnancy because he thinks the child is his - because you lied to him.
And then POOF it�s all gone, and what makes it even better is that you had the test done with OM instead of your husband because that�s where your priorities lied. What you don�t understand is that for a man having your first child is one of the greatest moments in life, and you took that away from him. You say you want to have children with your husband, but there won�t be joy involved because he will ALWAYS remember that his firstborn is actually another man�s child. You gave him no CHOICE. He had already made the choice to have his child with you; if you would have adopted a child, he would have had a choice and input into the decision. But once you did this incredibly selfish act you stole that choice forever, now the only choice he has is if to accept your perfidy or not.
Right now, no one knows and he�s already having problems coming to terms with what has happened � how bad do you think it will be when his family finds out and wonders why he wants to stay with you? When he has to face the fact that he�s been cuckolded by you and it is now public knowledge? Maybe even feeling a bit inadequate because you had difficulty having a child together only to have it rubbed in his face? Facing his parents is going to involve a great deal of shame. Justified or not, he will feel ashamed that he has accepted this in both their eyes and his own, that he is not being seen as a man but rather as a patsy. Imagine trying to deal with that and then coming here and finding his wife still attempt to justify what she�s done by saying he�s controlling. Still in the fog we are, yes? If you had a son and his wife did this to him, would you be very accommodating?
The folks on the other thread who had OC experiences can provide personal perspectives but they don�t really match your situation. One poster was a woman, whose husband had an OC, but unlike you the child does not live with them and they don�t have any contact. Pops� situation is also different in that his family was already well established and the OC was his last child. I have a lot of respect for Pops, a very centered and decent man who tries to help people in a bad situation, and who answers questions, even about himself, with equanimity and a desire to help. Does what he has been able to do in his situation make him a better man than someone who couldn�t go through that? I can�t answer that; I can only know that I wouldn�t have been able to follow his path. If I wanted to stay in his marriage, and that would be a very big IF, one of the conditions for recovery would have been that the child was offered for adoption. In your situation, I must say that I would have left the minute I found out that you had lied to me all along about what was supposed to be my first child. There could be no forgiveness.
I disagree with the people who say that you are remorseful, I don�t think you are. I do think you�re sorry you�ve gotten yourself into this situation. I don�t think you really do acknowledge what your husband is going through, because you don�t seem to have the empathy to do so. Otherwise you wouldn�t be complaining that he is not playing along with your game plan and your timeline. It takes a long time for a BS to recover from plain old vanilla infidelity, want to take a guesstimate how long it may take when you throw in a firstborn OC? You were selfish in your affair, you were selfish when you didn�t tell your husband the child you were carrying may not be his, you were selfish in maintaining contact after D-Day and you�re being selfish now.
I will wish you luck because I believe that the task ahead of you may prove to be insurmountable, and I would say that it would be in your best interests for your husband to be able to come here and have his own thread.
WH,
Part of the problem here is that with the OC being a secret your H is able to terrorize you. Your and H lie to his family grows with every day your maintain this fiction.
Another problem is that with the OC being a secret your H is under such tremendous stress to protect that secret, and this will never go away.
I can tell you that as an OC the lies that were told to me were very painful once the truth came out. I don't think you could imagine looking at the OC everyday and feeling the truth at the tip of your tongue.
In my case I think my first legal father lasted about a year or two after I was adopted out of the family, before it broke up the marriage.
And OM is not just a "sperm donor" he represents a large part of who the OC will become, DNA is not destiny but it is important, otherwise we could train a chimp to be human.
God Bless
Gamma.
I will wish you luck because I believe that the task ahead of you may prove to be insurmountable, and I would say that it would be in your best interests for your husband to be able to come here and have his own thread.
americajin, that was an outstanding post and I think you made several excellent points. My feeling about this is that her BH may not be able to overcome this. For many people it would be too much to overcome. And like you said, he will be facing some tough times when he tells his mother and his family.
If my son came to me I would tell him to cut his losses and move on. I would counsel him that he has 2 paths: short term pain with the possibility of great future or long term pain. I would have a very hard time accepting her as my DIL.
It may be that her H cannot get over the resentment and I fear that he has no one to talk to about this. He doesn't want to tell his family so he has no one.
I really wish he would come here. I think we could help him with the situation. If he really wants to stay, we can help him with his anger.
Wanthealing,
One other thing to consider is that YOU and YOUR husband give up the child to the OM and let him raise the child. That's assuming he's a fit parent, and chances are, he no more or less fit than you.
Just because you are here, or you are the mother doesn't make you a more fit parent.
You MAY have to decide what is most important, your marriage, or a fight over the child.
I'm sure I'll hear all sorts of criticism, but really, what makes one infidel a better parent than another? Nothing.
Neither does the fact that she's married make her a better parent than her affair partner...
So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
I hesitate to enter this beehive
but can I say:
The OM isn't married. Would it not make more sense for this child to be raised in a two-parent home?
Excellent post, bettergullet.
What is the current status of the custody case? Has the OM won the appeal?
Your H should come here and get his own advice. I understand you wish to save your marriage. No one better to advise him than those of us here who understand his emotions and have walked that path.
But if OM gets granted a right to pursue custody, you will find it very difficult to shut him out of the child�s life. Courts don�t normally do that short of the OM being a convict. If he�s an average guy with average issues, he will be given some form of visitation and you�re not likely to get sole physical and legal custody if he�s a fairly normal person.
That is why I advocate a settlement. Litigation is horrendously stressful for everyone involved. Conflict is kept alive when it happens.
If he�s denied the appeal, then it will be effectively over and OM will be stripped of his rights. But I sure hope that if your H decides not to stay in the marriage that you won�t then hose him with CS payments for a child that isn�t his. That�s when you need to step up and get whatever jobs you need to get to take care of YOUR child.
Assuming it remains a two-parent home. If the OC blows up the marriage, then it's certainly a draw.
The cold, hard calculus is as follows:
Dr H indicates an OC with continued contact with the affair partner is deadly to a marriage. To preserve the marriage, and that's clearly the goal surrounding my suggestion, one may be faced with not having contact with either the OC or the affair partner.
One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.
Many are not willing to accept this, but your spouse ALWAYS comes before your child when you are making decisions. If you decide otherwise, you are not honoring your vows.
So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
I hesitate to enter this beehive
but can I say:
The OM isn't married. Would it not make more sense for this child to be raised in a two-parent home?
That�s the very heart of the argument. By that thought process, all men who don�t have primary custody should drop out of the equation so that the kids can be raised by the ex wife and her new man, whomever that may be.
No. The ideal scenario is to not get into this situation in the first place. The answer is NOT to strip someone of their parental rights or to deny the child the right to know their biological parents.
One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.
I believe Dr. H advocates using an IM to pick up and drop off the OC for visitation, to make sure NC remains in place. You can save the M AND have the child that way.
One may only get to pick one goal. Either save the marriage, or have the child. It may not be possible to do both. Since one vows to be with their spouse for life and put their spouse before all other humans, including parents and children, the only choice consistent with honoring the vow may be to let the child go with the other bio parent.
I believe Dr. H advocates using an IM to pick up and drop off the OC for visitation, to make sure NC remains in place. You can save the M AND have the child that way.
But why have that daily reminder of what happened?
If he wants the child, then let him raise the child. She has enough to do to help her husband heal.
He comes first. The spouse ALWAYS comes first before the child. I suggest the order of priorties when she is making a decision is:
1. What is the best for my husband and my marriage.
2. What is best for the child.
If having the OC and the drama surrounding the OC is destroying the marriage, then one way to resolve the drama is to give him 100% custody.
This is the Marriage Builders site, so we focus on what is best for the marriage. Perhaps NOT having the child around is the best for the marriage.
The MB rules for recovery still apply.
Let us know if you need help with the following ....
Extraordinary Precautions to Avoid A Former Lover
To help you totally separate from your lover, and avoid the temptation to see him when you crave him the most, I suggest the following extraordinary precautions:
1. Honesty
The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.
Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.
You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.
Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.
Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.
If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.
2. Account for Your Time.
Once you have established a willingness to be completely honest with your husband, then continue to be honest with him about all of your activities. Make sure he knows about everything you do throughout the day. Give him a complete schedule of your activities, and let him know which of those activities make you most tempted to contact your former lover. Try to avoid people and places that increase your craving to be with him.
3. Spend As Much of Your Time with Your Husband as Possible.
During withdrawal, there is not much your husband can do to deposit love units into your Love Bank. But it still makes sense for you to be together as much as possible. That's because the more you are with him, the less you will be tempted to contact your lover. Try to have lunch together, talk on the telephone several times a day, and be sure to spend evenings and weekends together.
In many cases, I have suggested that a husband and wife go on a three-week vacation together during the first few weeks of withdrawal, just to help the wayward spouse avoid contacting the former lover. I tell these couples not to expect too many love units to be deposited, but by getting away from the reminders of the lover, they find that such a vacation greatly reduces the time it takes for withdrawal. Besides, the distractions of a vacation can often compensate for the depression that accompanies withdrawal, and makes the experience much less painful.
Sometimes a wayward spouse feels like getting away from everyone during withdrawal, and going on the vacation alone. But it doesn't work. It's too tempting to call the lover, and in many cases the lover ends up joining the wayward spouse.
If you go with your husband on this vacation, you will not feel like being very romantic with him. He should expect very little from you, because you will be recovering from your addiction to your lover. It's only after the craving for your lover subsides, and your depression lifts that you will be able to give your husband the opportunity to deposit all the love units it takes for you to be in love with him again.
Of course, your husband must be very careful to avoid making matters worse by saying and doing anything that would upset you. Granted, he may not be very happy about your affair, but if he wants you to love him again, he must avoid withdrawing love units at all costs. He must be with you as much as possible, yet avoid anger, disrespect and demands, which are all Love Busters. He must also be careful to take your feelings into account whenever you make decisions.
If you slip, and contact your lover in spite of the extraordinary precautions you take, tell you husband about it immediately. Then, improve your extraordinary precautions to include the condition that caused the slip. Keep improving them until it becomes virtually impossible for you to contact your lover. A slip will set you back emotionally, but it does not mean that your recovery plan has been ruined. It simply needs an upgrade.
In many cases, I have encouraged couples to relocate to a different part of the country to avoid contact with a lover. It's a good example of an extraordinary precaution upgrade, when it became apparent that contact with a lover could not be avoided when living in the same city. It goes without saying that when lovers are fellow employees, a job change is absolutely essential to marital recovery. How is total separation from a former lover possible when you work together?
You asked if you should avoid using the internet, since it reminds you of your lover, and tempts you to contact him. I'm sure you can anticipate my answer. I suggest that you stay away from the internet until you are through withdrawal, and you have restored your love to your husband again. Then, I think it would be safe for you to return to it again.
Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery
After you are through withdrawal from the addiction to your lover, your depression will have lifted and you will no longer feel a craving to talk to your lover. At that time you will be ready to put into place rules that will guide you and your husband toward a deep love for each other. After you have followed the rules for a while (six months to two years), you and your husband will be soul-mates.
These are the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery that you and your husband should follow to help you restore your love for eachother:
1. The Rule of Protection: Avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness.
If you and your husband want to be in love with each other, you must build your Love Bank accounts. But before you build them, you must be sure there are no leaks in the Love Bank. It's pointless to deposit love units into a sieve, where every deposit is promptly withdrawn by a Love Buster. So you must make a special effort to plug up those leaks by committing yourselves to avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness.
The most obvious things spouses do to ruin their love for each other is what I call Love Busters. They are angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, annoying behavior, selfish demands and dishonesty. I describe these destructive habits in my basic concepts, but if you need special help learning how to avoid them, I suggest you read, Love Busters: Overcoming Habits that Destroy Romantic Love. This book will help you identify the Love Busters that keep emptying your Love Bank accounts, and show you how to stop inflicting them on each other.
Most of the Q&A columns I've posted on the Marriage Buildersﾮ web site focuses attention on the Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). This policy protects both you and your husband from each other thoughtless decisions. Your affair was a blatant example of thoughtlessness on your part because you knew it would hurt your husband, but you went ahead and did it anyway. The Policy of Joint Agreement is a very important guide to helping you keep the Rule of Protection. That's because it helps you realize that anything you do that hurts your husband is off limits to you, regardless of how wonderful it makes you feel.
If you had followed the Policy of Joint Agreement, you would never have had an affair. But the Policy will also help you avoid hurting each other in a host of other ways, too. My book, Fall in Love, Stay in Love, can help you learn how to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement, and use it to negotiate agreements that are fair for both of you. Once you learn to negotiate with each other fairly, you will have learned how to follow the Rule of Protection.
2. The Rule of Care: Meet your spouse's most important emotional needs.
The way to deposit the most love units is to meet a person's most important emotional needs. Your lover did that when he wrote you all those e-mail letters because conversation was your most important emotional need. After one month of filling your Love Bank with thousands of love units that were e-mailed to you, you found him irresistible -- you were in love with him.
Conversation is not your only important emotional need. Affection, recreational companionship, admiration and sexual fulfillment may be some of the other important emotional needs that your lover met. Unless your husband eventually meets your must important needs as well as your lover met them, you will be frustrated and at risk for another affair.
Sometimes a spouse must learn to meet a need that he or she has never been very effective in meeting. Many of the spouses I've counseled have had to learn to be affectionate for the first time in their lives. They also have had to learn to be stimulating conversationalists and skilled lovers. They have had to learn to provide greater financial support, become more effective in their parenting skills and learn to become admiring instead of being critical. New habits that lead to need fulfillment can be learned by anyone. All it takes is a plan and willingness to follow it until expert level is achieved.
But your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs. An important reason that you had an affair was that your husband's work schedule prevented him from giving you the attention you craved from him. When you and your husband agree to follow this second Rule to Recovery, his work schedule will no longer stand between you, because meeting your needs will become your husband's highest priority. All the needs that your lover was meeting for you will be met by your husband in the future.
If you need help identifying and learning how to meet each other's important emotional needs, I suggest you read, His Needs, Her Needs: Building an Affair-proof Marriage. It describes the ten most important emotional needs for men and women, and how to become an expert at meeting those needs. When your husband has learned to meet your needs, he will be depositing so many love units that his account in your Love Bank will be overflowing. By then, you will be thoroughly convinced that leaving your lover to rebuild your marriage was the right decision to make.
3: The Rule of Time: Give your spouse your undivided attention.
You indicated in your letter that it was the lack of your spouse's attention that drove you into the arms of your lover. But it may have been more a lack of time than a lack of attention. As I already mentioned, your husband may already know how to meet your emotional needs, but unless he sets aside enough time to do it, all of his skill does you no good at all. It's the man who gives you time for undivided attention who will win your heart.
I suggest that you and your husband plan to spend at least 15 hours each week together, giving each other your undivided attention. Use that time to meet each other's emotional needs for affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. I have found that if that amount of time is taken to meet emotional needs, you can spend the rest of your 100 waking hours each week doing just about anything you please, without any risk to your love for each other. But if you do not set aside that time, your good intentions will not buy you a single love unit.
Since most everything we do must be scheduled or we don't do it, I suggest you take about a half an hour each week (say, Sunday afternoon from 3:30 to 4:00) to schedule your time together for the next week. Get out your schedules and write each other into your appointment books. Once scheduled, don't let anything interfere with your time together.
I suggest spending the same days and times together every week because it's easier to remember than a new time each week. Besides, you can be better emotionally prepared to be with each other if you always know that Tuesday evening you will be together from 7 to 10.
I also suggest that you spend time together when you have plenty of energy. Don't give each other the leftovers, give each other the best of yourselves. That's why I generally rule out time together after 11:00 pm. For one thing, you need your sleep for the challenges of the next day, and for another, there are not too many people who are at their best that late at night.
Finally, I suggest that you spread your time out every week, giving each other at least one hour of undivided attention every day. I am generally opposed to cramming all of your time together into a marathon weekend of 15 hours, because undivided attention is required, and 15 hours of anything makes undivided attention almost impossible.
4. The Rule of Honesty: Be completely honest with your spouse.
We have already discussed honesty as an extraordinary precaution to prevent you from contacting your lover, so I won't say much more about it. But what you begin as an extraordinary precaution, must become the standard way you and your husband communicate with each other -- with openness and honesty.
You have not been honest with your husband. If you had been honest, you could never have had an affair. Your honesty is your husband's greatest protection because it lets him know what you are up to. It also helps you both make adjustments to each other. Instead of having an affair, you should have told him how unhappy you were with his negligence of you, and how you were falling in love with another man who would give you his time and attention. If you had ended the budding relationship then, and focused on getting more of your husband's undivided attention, you would not have put both of you through such an ordeal.
The Basic Concepts section of this web site contains a section entitled, "the Policy of Radical Honesty." It outlines precisely what the rule of honesty is. It's complete honesty. I want you to read it over very carefully, because it explains precisely how honest you and your husband are to be with each other.
But be careful not to let Love Busters ruin the purity and value of honesty. Keep anger, disrespect and demands out of your honest expression of facts and feelings. If you can do that, you will find your honesty will not only help you find solutions to your problems, but it will also draw you closer together, and help you become the soul-mates that you can be.
If you are willing to permanently end your relationship with your lover (never see or communicate with him again), get through withdrawal, and then you and your husband follow the Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery, I guarantee you that you will have a great marriage. And I also guarantee you that neither of you will ever suffer through an affair again.
This situation won't really be resolved until the appeal is done. It will be at that point when a decisive course of action can be made.
If OM is granted a lifeline, then settlment is best so that everyone can start healing.
If he's not, then recovery needs to happen with wanthealing needing to defog (massively) and BH getting support.
So the Marriage Building advice is to wait for the appeal to play out. OM is really deflecting anger he feels towards you to the OM. If OM disappears, that anger will be directed at you.
wanthealing: Have you read Gack1's story? There is someone else here with a very similar situation. He is raising his wife's OC (also their first child) and the OM is not involved in the picture at all.
I'm not even going to argue with all the father's rights advocates on this site. BTDT, and it's pretty pointless. I will say though that wanthealing's BH is actually this baby's legal father, since they were married at the time the child was born, and he wants to raise this child with her. I'm wondering why it is that none of you father's rights advocates seem to be advocating for this poor BH's rights? He is this child's legal father and may well be allowed to remain so under the law. Remember, OM already lost one case. There's a very good chance that the OM will never be given any rights to this baby. It's happened many times before, since the husband is considered the legal father of any child born into the marriage. And yet, she's actually being told to go out and get a DNA test and pretty much prove the OM's case for him, in spite of the fact that the law seems to be on her and her BH's side so far. This is about the most horrible advice I can imagine anyone giving at this point.
Wanthealing, I think you were much better off on the pregnancy and child forum, receiving advice from others who actually have experience dealing with an OC situation.
Also, wanthealing, are there any court orders right now that state that you are not allowed to move out of state?
Excellent post, bettergullet.
What is the current status of the custody case? Has the OM won the appeal?
Your H should come here and get his own advice. I understand you wish to save your marriage. No one better to advise him than those of us here who understand his emotions and have walked that path.
But if OM gets granted a right to pursue custody, you will find it very difficult to shut him out of the child�s life. Courts don�t normally do that short of the OM being a convict. If he�s an average guy with average issues, he will be given some form of visitation and you�re not likely to get sole physical and legal custody if he�s a fairly normal person.
That is why I advocate a settlement. Litigation is horrendously stressful for everyone involved. Conflict is kept alive when it happens.
If he�s denied the appeal, then it will be effectively over and OM will be stripped of his rights. But I sure hope that if your H decides not to stay in the marriage that you won�t then hose him with CS payments for a child that isn�t his. That�s when you need to step up and get whatever jobs you need to get to take care of YOUR child.
It depends on the state. In certain states, the husband is assumed to be the father of the child, and if he does not contest paternity himself, then no one else can claim custody. The OM cannot get the paternity tested. That is the way the law should be. If a man fathers a child with a married woman, he shouldn't have any rights to the child. To he11 with him. He trampled all over the rights of the BH. If OM wants a child, he can have one with an eligible female. He shouldn't be allow to break up a marriage which could possible have other kids involved as well.
Actually, I don't think the law should indicate the husband is assumed to be the father. If there is going to be any law, it should be that if the mother is married, the child is tested to see if the husband is the father, and if not, he's given the truth and a choice right then.
If the husband has no idea he's not the bio father, then either he needs to know at birth, or he needs the right to protect himself should he learn of his wive's infidelity in the future. The worst thing is for an ex-husband to be saddled with support for a child who is not his.
In such a case, protect the child by knowing who the bio father is, and ensuring he pays support should the betrayed husband not want to support another man's child.
But in no way should a man ever be forced to support a child he did not father. EVER.
He can volunteer. But the statute of limitations should never end. If he finds out when the child is 16, then he should be given the opportunity to protect himself emotionally and financially.
Actually, I don't think the law should indicate the husband is assumed to be the father. If there is going to be any law, it should be that if the mother is married, the child is tested to see if the husband is the father, and if not, he's given the truth and a choice right then.
If the husband has no idea he's not the bio father, then either he needs to know at birth, or he needs the right to protect himself should he learn of his wive's infidelity in the future. The worst thing is for an ex-husband to be saddled with support for a child who is not his.
In such a case, protect the child by knowing who the bio father is, and ensuring he pays support should the betrayed husband not want to support another man's child.
But in no way should a man ever be forced to support a child he did not father. EVER.
He can volunteer. But the statute of limitations should never end. If he finds out when the child is 16, then he should be given the opportunity to protect himself emotionally and financially.
Well, there's a difference between what you think the law ought to be and what the law actually is. Right now, the law recognizes the husband as the legal father of any child born into the marriage. The H can challenge paternity if he wishes and ask for a DNA test, but wanthealing's H doesn't want to challenge paternity. He has accepted this child as his own and wants to raise the child, and the law supports his right to do so, as it should. He isn't being forced to support this child against his will. He is doing so willingly.
I don't understand how anything I've said shows a lack of remorse. I've offered to let my BH go and give him everything, but he wants to stay in it and continue building a family together. I do too, but I want my BH to be happy again someday. Maybe not now; maybe not for years. But someday I want him to feel like he made the best decision for himself--whether it's with or without me. I'm not forcing him to stay with me. Despite one year of horrible, we've had over a decade of really good. Maybe that's enough for him to want to stay. I can't get into his head to know the whys, but he's dead set against a D. I'm thrilled with that, but I don't want to see him self-destruct.
As for the OM, we're not concerned right now with how he's feeling. We figure the court will determine the outcome for us. Right now we don't even know the paternity for sure (no real test was ever done, but OM wants to know). My BH feels like OM has no right to demand a DNA test. And if OM gets rights, so be it, but a third party will have to handle all exchanges. I never want to hear from OM or see him again. And my BH may slip and kill him if he saw him, so that eliminates him from any C as well. We've made our decision to stick together no matter what the outcome, and my BH does not see OM in the OC. He actually still believes OC is his own. He hates the thought of finding out otherwise. I don't blame him; I can't imagine being in his shoes. I'm trying to understand so that I can do what I need to do to help him...or point him to help here on MB. I'm still working on trying to get him to post. No luck yet on that.
And I do appreciate getting the "other" perspective, because I WANT to know how to empathize with my BH. That's why I posted here in the first place. I want him to know this will never happen again, which I can't expect him to blindly trust, but I'll do my best to show him the truth of my conviction for the rest of my life. BH has full access to everything. He knows the full truth about everything, reads my posts here, has all access to my phone, and I've even told him about programs he can use to monitor everything I do on the computer. I've encouraged him to track my car mileage and will get a GPS phone if that helps. He's not even the one who wants to do all of this, but I WANT his accountability. I acted like a whore and his mercy toward me was undeserved. So now we're recovering...at least trying to.
Meloday Lane, when you said you would have trouble accepting a DIL who did this to your son, do you have any advice on how my BH and I can handle that? I am VERY close to my in-laws (we see them several times a week) and that relationship is very important to us. I don't know if there's any way to salvage that after all of this, but I want to try. My BH insists on waiting to expose it to them, since we're still waiting on the facts to all come in, but it's gonna happen eventually. Any advice for that talk? Our pastor, who knows everything, is willing to go with us as a mediator, but I don't know what's a good idea and what's not.
Thank you for the help and advice. I want to help my M and my BH. That's all I care about right now.
Thank you for the help and advice. I want to help my M and my BH. That's all I care about right now.
I wonder why you have not replied to my first post to you on this thread.
Could you do me the honor, please?
Geez, why is the morality and ethics of this being debated? We all agree that WW/OM both behaved with utter disregard for those. They were both also completely irresponsible to do so without taking simple precautions against unplanned pregnancy. Neither one of them can claim any �moral high ground� here. Before anything else, the ensuing practical and legal issues must be resolved.
With all due respect to the moderator, at this point there is no rebuilding or restoration of the marriage relationship possible right now. Why? It comes down to 2 inter-related facts:
Complete NC has not yet been established with the OM due to his paternity claim and...
The BH, due to the unresolved complexities of the OC/legal issues, has zero clarity with regard to the potential future. He is not in a position yet to even begin making a rational judgment on the question of recovery vs divorce because he lacks so much vital info.
The above 2 points are a CONSTANT & RECURRING TRIGGER for the BH here and, while I do not condone the outward physical expressions of his hurt/rage/confusion/violation, we all agree that it is perfectly understandable and normal for him to be experiencing very strong negative emotions for quite some time.
HW, I know you don't control the court calendar or the judge, but I would advise you to do all in your power to bring a speedy resolution to the OC/OM situation, whatever that may be. Your BH deserves to have some definitive factual basis upon which to envision what his/yours/OC's future life would realistically look like BEFORE he decides for sure whether you & he should work towards recovery or go your separate ways. You made this mess so you need to take the lead in bringing clarity and �tying up the loose ends� so to speak.
If there is any doubt whatsoever as to who is the actual biological father, that needs to be proven first. I�m assuming it is indeed the OM.
Will the OM voluntarily relinquish custodial/visitation claims to his OC? I gather he is holding firmly to those via legal channels.
If this remains so, then you have two choices. You can renounce your parental rights (which I doubt you even want to consider but you should if you want to save your marriage) or you can push for a court decision and roll the dice. The latter, unless the OM is somehow legally �unfit�, is�prepare yourself�very likely going to result in some sort of joint custody/visitation arrangement. In other words, Mr. OM is very likely going to be granted the legal right to see/have his daughter part-time.
Your BH, no matter how much right now he loves the OC and wants to raise her together, needs and deserves to know in advance what that is going to entail before he can make a logical decision about your marriage. Right now, he�s still in shock and fighting to hold his life together. The emotional limbo he is in currently is not fair to him one bit. He needs to know if OC is going to be legally �yours alone� (plural) or if OM is going to be involved/have access. I doubt, understandably, if he is going to feel the same way if/when he finds out that OM will be taking his daughter every other weekend for the next 18 years.
If, as I suspect, it is going to end up being a shared arrangement, then TRUE, COMPLETE, PERPETUAL NO CONTACT with the OM will be virtually impossible. MB principles teach us that such NC is absolutely vital to genuinely recover a marriage tarnished by adultery. MB also teaches us that, without it, the BS is repeatedly triggered, trust & intimacy become nearly impossible to restore, and the affair is not uncommonly renewed at some point down the road. Basically, without full NC, there exists no real recovery and divorce becomes all but inevitable.
I would advise you to do all that you can to give your BH the clarity (come what may) he needs so he can make a wise decision. If the OM can�t be �removed from the picture� in some fashion, then your BH should frankly cut his losses via divorce, take time to heal, and then find a woman who doesn�t cheat on him and get herself knocked-up.
Sorry, but adultery has consequences�
wanthealing, whatever you do, DO NOT voluntarily get a DNA test if your BH isn't asking for one. This will just give the OM leverage in his court case. His case was already denied once. There's a very good chance it will be denied again. This could be jeopardized if you voluntarily get a DNA test without a court order. If your BH really wants to raise this baby as his own regardless of who the biological father is, the worst thing you could do right now from a legal standpoint is to have the DNA test done.
Meloday Lane, when you said you would have trouble accepting a DIL who did this to your son, do you have any advice on how my BH and I can handle that? I am VERY close to my in-laws (we see them several times a week) and that relationship is very important to us. I don't know if there's any way to salvage that after all of this, but I want to try. My BH insists on waiting to expose it to them, since we're still waiting on the facts to all come in, but it's gonna happen eventually. Any advice for that talk? Our pastor, who knows everything, is willing to go with us as a mediator, but I don't know what's a good idea and what's not.
WH, my preference would be to see you and your H go alone to see his parents. [when he is ready] If you went with a pastor I would think you were hiding out and that would bother me. I would want to see you man up and face me. That would mean alot to me. That you care enough about my boy and ME to face the music. You should be the one to tell her and when you do, I would strongly emphasize your remorse and sorrow for hurting her son. Assure her that you have taken steps to prevent this from ever happening again. She will be upset that you hurt her boy, so reassuring her will be tantamount.
And be prepared to get a bad response. She will be VERY HURT about this. Just be as compassionate as possible.
And I hope she is not a Texas mama! You might get pistol whipped!
O.M.G. O.M.G. it just occurred to me that his parents know you are pregnant and believe this is HIS natural child.
And you are seeing them several times a week while decieving them.
I am VERY close to my in-laws (we see them several times a week)
O.M.G. O.M.G. it just occurred to me that his parents know you are pregnant and believe this is HIS natural child.
And you are seeing them several times a week while decieving them.
I am VERY close to my in-laws (we see them several times a week)
Actually, I think the baby is about 6 months old now, and the BH's parents do indeed believe that this is their biological grandchild.
wanthealing, is it his goal to deceive them in the hopes that this won't come out? Because I am just telling you that this will be worse the longer you wait to tell them. The longer you deceive them and allow them to think this is their son's child, the MORE resentment they will have.
As a parent, I might be able to overcome the fact that my son was not the father but boy howdy, if you compounded the crime by allowing me to oooh and aaaah over "my grandchild" for months I would be deeply resentful.
I think your H needs to rethink that strategy. If there is any chance of this coming out, he is making a big mistake by deceiving them.
I just don't even know what to say.
In this case, he is making the choice.
What of those husbands who are kept in the dark? Should the law continue to assume they want to support a child who is not theirs?
I clearly said such support should be voluntary. I agree with those who are saying he may not be in a place where he can rationally decide, but he's an adult and it's on him.
So I'm not arguing against his right to do so. However, I think the law should also protect the rights of the betrayed husband who ends up with an OC that he doesn't even realize is not his.
It's that case where I think it's unconscionable to expect the BH to continue to support a child he just learned was not his.
It's at the point where the BH has full knowledge of the paternity of the child should any clock on making a decision begin. Not at the birth of the child.
Actually, I don't think the law should indicate the husband is assumed to be the father. If there is going to be any law, it should be that if the mother is married, the child is tested to see if the husband is the father, and if not, he's given the truth and a choice right then.
If the husband has no idea he's not the bio father, then either he needs to know at birth, or he needs the right to protect himself should he learn of his wive's infidelity in the future. The worst thing is for an ex-husband to be saddled with support for a child who is not his.
In such a case, protect the child by knowing who the bio father is, and ensuring he pays support should the betrayed husband not want to support another man's child.
But in no way should a man ever be forced to support a child he did not father. EVER.
He can volunteer. But the statute of limitations should never end. If he finds out when the child is 16, then he should be given the opportunity to protect himself emotionally and financially.
Well, there's a difference between what you think the law ought to be and what the law actually is. Right now, the law recognizes the husband as the legal father of any child born into the marriage. The H can challenge paternity if he wishes and ask for a DNA test, but wanthealing's H doesn't want to challenge paternity. He has accepted this child as his own and wants to raise the child, and the law supports his right to do so, as it should. He isn't being forced to support this child against his will. He is doing so willingly.
I agree, if he's keeping this from his parents then this bad news does not get better with age.
wanthealing,
I just wanted to send my support to you and your husband, this is a tough situation for everyone, it is going to take a lot of strength and caring on your part, your husband has decided to stay in the marriage and stick it out even with this situation.........you are one lucky woman, don't worry about whether he will be happy down the road, things will all work out in time. He can walk away now he knows that, he didn't because he is where he wants to be.......
The future will take care of itself, you need to look after him today to make that happen..........
Right now I agree with the your logic, there is no answer for anyone involved, let the courts decide and live with that ruling.........The Om has already lost one court case, let it all play out and just accept the outcome......and deal with what happens together. Either way you two can love that child with or without the test, the true test of a loving parent is how much they are willing to do for a child every day.........it's the day to day life and experiences that make a great parent......If the other man ends up in the picture some way, deal with that, the child is still yours for you and your husband to love.........
Don't let the legal change any of that..............
Have faith in love in your husband and the commitment you share as a couple now and as a family
Good luck
Pepperband, if you are referring to your advice, then I appreciate that and I'm going to talk that over with my BH tonight.
If you're referring to thread discussion about the OC situation, then yes, I would like to keep the discussion about recovering our M, not about OM rights when it comes to OC. We're letting the law figure that out for us right now. And we're not doing anything to establish paternity unless required by law--thanks, writer1!
WH,
One form of contact you cannot prevent is OM/OMs children/ OMs family contacting your OC sometime later in life, or your OC searching them out. Given his need to have contact with OC this will happen in the future.
Your OC may also turn out to be like me, a scouring pad, who hunts down every detail. This is a wild card.
My Adoptive father wanted to keep all the details of my parentage locked away, and to do so he got my adoptive Mother to agree to never say anything and my adoptive brother and various in the know extended family members. But really it was just like any other lie in that you have to get others to lie along with you.
When my adoptive Mother was in her 80s she related how she wanted to tell me the truth for decades, my Brother too unloaded his stories to me along with various extended family members and associates.
One family friend unloaded her story about my babyhood just about a month ago, I was relating the details I knew, and she told me facts I had never heard before, she is in her 90's.
God Bless
Gamma
PS The OC absolutely needs the truth about his paternity, if not now then 3 years from now when the legal smoke has cleared. Should the OM take ill your OC might never forgive you for letting him die without seeing him. This happened with my biological Mother.
I just don't even know what to say.
The answer is to bring CLARITY to the situation and let the chips fall where they may. That's the only grown-up way to handle this. The involved parties need to have the TRUTH to make reasoned and honest decisions.
Right now, the whole thing is a rat's nest of deceptions, intrigue, and denials. The affair has not been exposed. The family thinks the OC is biologically of the husband/wife. The BH is burying his head in the sand by apparently not pursuing a paternity test although he has the legal right to one. The OM is attempting to enforce via court action his custodial rights as the alleged bio father. And note that HealingWanted in both threads expresses no doubt who is the bio father�she has ID�d the OM and informed both OM & BH of that suspicion. Obviously, she knows quite precisely when conception likely took place, who she was �with� then, and with whom protection may or may not have been in place.
I defer to the legal experts on who can/cannot legally request a paternity test. If it is only the BH, then that is the law, right or wrong. I sincerely hope that this BH chooses to get one and that no one, esp. HW, attempts to prevent or dissuade him from choosing to do so. He has a right to know and would be foolish, no matter how much he loves this OC, to deceive himself and leave lingering doubts in his mind. If his WW cheats again and/or they get a divorce down the road, he could easily find himself saddled with support payments for a child he did not father.
The BH is burying his head in the sand by apparently not pursuing a paternity test although he has the legal right to one.
I don't think he's burying his head in the sand. I just think he's dumbstruck and can't bring himself to make a decision. Remember the marine (DRO)and his wife that were here for a short while about three months ago? I think wanthealing should read that thread. I am waiting for DRO to come back and tell us how he is doing but I don't think he'll return.
wanthealing, I feel bad for you because I don't think that your husband is going to be able to deal with this, and the impending fallout once his family knows. You can be the best blue ribbon world class wife from this moment on and it won't matter a damn if your husband cannot get past the fact that his little bundle of joy is not his at all. Like I said, Dr Harley does say that recovery is possible but a BH would have to be really motivated, and I would have to ask you, if the situation was reversed would you be motivated to work it out with yourself and someone else's kid?
That's why I would be asking your husband to come here, he's too ashamed to go to his family and he has no one to work this through to whatever conclusion he arrives at.
I don't understand why the BH can not get a DNA test without having to share that information with OM? What if he is the biological dad? It would not be the first time a woman has been wrong. There is a talk show that seems to be doing paternity test every time I surf by where a woman is certain that someone is the father of her child and turns out he isn't.
It would be beyond tragic if they tell the child she is an OC, tell his family she is an OC, continue to go through this court mess, and then learn that she is biologically BH's.
Exodus1414, there was a DNA sample submitted for testing, albeit by the OM. Don't think the guy would be litigating for custody if the results didn't say he was the father. But you're right, no reason why they can't have the test repeated. Easy enough to do, just go on the LabCorps website and follow the instructions.
Except for the fact that if they have a DNA test and the OM finds out about it, he could use that information in court to help his case.
I don't think a DNA test has been done already has it?
I agree my first post I mentioned a few things that you need to do one of those things was exposie this affair and tell his/yours family about the OC.
The longer you wait the worse it will be.
Two things might happen
1.) They will be very angry and feel betrayed.
2.) They will understand and help you with the custody battle.
Either way you have to tell them and if you think waiting is better then good luck.
Since your not 100 percent sure it is ur husband just tell them that it might not be their sons until u do a DNA test and you can't do that until everything is settled with the courts.
Believe me, I feel awful not telling my in-laws. I want to get it out there, but BH can't handle that right now. I hope we can tell them soon. I just wish I knew how to tell them.
OM did a non-legal test behind my back the one and only time he saw the child, but no one saw him perform it. That's why we have our doubts about its credibility. My H and I had only started trying, so it's not like we were having issues getting preggie. And our plan is to get a DNA test done after all the court stuff and at that point tell everyone everything, including OC. Ideally later OC can decide if she wants to know OM. At least that's the plan. But my daily plan is more focused on supporting my BH.
He read this thread earlier and said he knows he will be okay in the end as long as we walk away with our M intact. Apparently something is getting through to him.
Thank you all for the support!
If they get a DNA sample kit, swab the child and the husband and submit it to LabCorp, how's anyone gong to know?
edited because you don't need a physician order or a court order to get a paternity test
Except for the fact that if they have a DNA test and the OM finds out about it, he could use that information in court to help his case.
I don't think a DNA test has been done already has it?
BTW, the WW in this case seems pretty convinced that the OM is the bio father of this OC. In fact, she has told both OM and her BH of that (likely) fact. Yes, she could be wrong, but I would imagine that she wouldn't have spilled all that to those 2 men and on these boards unless she had a pretty firm idea. No details necessary, but suffice it to say, that she knows the who�s and why�s quite well I�m sure.
As far as the legal repercussions of a paternity test, I only hope that the BH is fully apprised of his options and the long-range ramifications thereof. If he is and is prepared to accept them for the next 18 years no matter what, than that is his choice. [I am assuming here that what others have posted about the OM having no legal right to compel a paternity test w/o the BH requesting it is correct. We would need a lawyer to answer this for us, but it seems logical to me that the BH could get himself & OC tested for his own personal knowledge without the results being legally discoverable by the OM as long as BH & WW are still married. I could be wrong about that�maybe someone with legal expertise could clear this up.]
But, I suspect that the BH here is probably acting out of fear and shame rather than his own best self-interest. He doesn�t want the affair exposed. He is too ashamed to let his parents know that their grandchild is/may be from an OM. He apparently has bonded (understandably) with the baby. I hope these factors are not clouding his long-term judgment. If he wants to attempt recovery with his WW and to raise this OC as �their own�, its best to go into it with everyone�s eyes opened. Right now there seems to be a lot of hiding and denial going on and we all know where that leads.
If you get the DNA test done, it just may save you quite a bit in court costs if it comes back as your husband as the putative father.
Nobody does a DNA test at home, it's just a sample kit that you have to mail in to a lab.
Removed since others had already made the point.
WH,
When a few months back I called one of the internet DNA testing sites the operator I spoke with recommended using a gift credit card, not traceable, and giving a false name.
Some sites will post the results online with a special code being given over the phone to access the results, that is no name is attached to the results.
God Bless
Gamma
WH, I am just so sorry that your family is having to go through this.....all of you.
I wanted to share with you a story that hopefully will give you some hope. It's about this woman who had a "summer love" with a man she met at a University. She loved him dearly, but he broke it off at the end of the summer after his seminar class was over. It wasn't until after she found out she was pregnant that she found out this guy was married. He was willing to help her.....but he didn't want anyone to know who the father was. She gave birth to the baby....and 10 weeks later that baby was adopted. This baby grew up with two parents who loved her dearly, though they shared no DNA. 42 years later, this baby is a grown woman who loves and appreciates the very REA: parents who taught her to walk, to ride a bike, to love God, and to be her best.
That girl is me. M and M may not have any DNA in common with me, but we were/are as authentic a family as has ever been. Your DH may not share DNA or eye color or recessive genes with your baby......but that does not mean he cannot be a very real father.
It depends on the state. In certain states, the husband is assumed to be the father of the child, and if he does not contest paternity himself, then no one else can claim custody. The OM cannot get the paternity tested. That is the way the law should be. If a man fathers a child with a married woman, he shouldn't have any rights to the child. To he11 with him. He trampled all over the rights of the BH. If OM wants a child, he can have one with an eligible female. He shouldn't be allow to break up a marriage which could possible have other kids involved as well.
You may feel different if and when you have children. Sorry. Don't agree.
What? The WW has no part in this?
It depends on the state. In certain states, the husband is assumed to be the father of the child, and if he does not contest paternity himself, then no one else can claim custody. The OM cannot get the paternity tested. That is the way the law should be. If a man fathers a child with a married woman, he shouldn't have any rights to the child. To he11 with him. He trampled all over the rights of the BH. If OM wants a child, he can have one with an eligible female. He shouldn't be allow to break up a marriage which could possible have other kids involved as well.
You may feel different if and when you have children. Sorry. Don't agree.
What? The WW has no part in this?
Who is saying that the WW has no part in this? If you're thinking that there are no consequences for the WW in an OC situation, you are sorely mistaken. I've been living it for almost three years now, and I have suffered plenty of consequences for my actions.
I don't understand how anything I've said shows a lack of remorse. I've offered to let my BH go and give him everything, but he wants to stay in it and continue building a family together. I do too, but I want my BH to be happy again someday. Maybe not now; maybe not for years. But someday I want him to feel like he made the best decision for himself--whether it's with or without me. I'm not forcing him to stay with me. Despite one year of horrible, we've had over a decade of really good. Maybe that's enough for him to want to stay. I can't get into his head to know the whys, but he's dead set against a D. I'm thrilled with that, but I don't want to see him self-destruct.
As for the OM, we're not concerned right now with how he's feeling. We figure the court will determine the outcome for us. Right now we don't even know the paternity for sure (no real test was ever done, but OM wants to know). My BH feels like OM has no right to demand a DNA test. And if OM gets rights, so be it, but a third party will have to handle all exchanges. I never want to hear from OM or see him again. And my BH may slip and kill him if he saw him, so that eliminates him from any C as well. We've made our decision to stick together no matter what the outcome, and my BH does not see OM in the OC. He actually still believes OC is his own. He hates the thought of finding out otherwise. I don't blame him; I can't imagine being in his shoes. I'm trying to understand so that I can do what I need to do to help him...or point him to help here on MB. I'm still working on trying to get him to post. No luck yet on that.
And I do appreciate getting the "other" perspective, because I WANT to know how to empathize with my BH. That's why I posted here in the first place. I want him to know this will never happen again, which I can't expect him to blindly trust, but I'll do my best to show him the truth of my conviction for the rest of my life. BH has full access to everything. He knows the full truth about everything, reads my posts here, has all access to my phone, and I've even told him about programs he can use to monitor everything I do on the computer. I've encouraged him to track my car mileage and will get a GPS phone if that helps. He's not even the one who wants to do all of this, but I WANT his accountability. I acted like a whore and his mercy toward me was undeserved. So now we're recovering...at least trying to.
Meloday Lane, when you said you would have trouble accepting a DIL who did this to your son, do you have any advice on how my BH and I can handle that? I am VERY close to my in-laws (we see them several times a week) and that relationship is very important to us. I don't know if there's any way to salvage that after all of this, but I want to try. My BH insists on waiting to expose it to them, since we're still waiting on the facts to all come in, but it's gonna happen eventually. Any advice for that talk? Our pastor, who knows everything, is willing to go with us as a mediator, but I don't know what's a good idea and what's not.
Thank you for the help and advice. I want to help my M and my BH. That's all I care about right now.
This can all be ended with a DNA test. If you find out the daughter is your BH's, then this whole thing is over and you can choose or not choose to tell your MIL.
As to your question, I would say it depended on your MIL. My mother would think I was a fool to stay with a woman who got pregnant with another man's child and would never really accept that child as her own or ever truly forgive the WW.
Except for the fact that if they have a DNA test and the OM finds out about it, he could use that information in court to help his case.
I don't think a DNA test has been done already has it?
My experience with my own DNA test to confirm my birth father:
These tests can be done anonymously. When they are anonymous they can be done in the privacy of the home, but they will not stand up in court. Anonymous testers receive a certain 'code number' when they submit a sample and have to reference that number when they discuss the sample with the lab.
The only way DNA test results will withstand court scrutiny is if both subjects have their tests performed at an approved testing site while they are witnessed by a special lab employee who then signs a notarized document swearing that she/he witnessed the tester actually performing the swab sample. They do not have to have the tests done at the same time or even at the same site.
The tests will not come back showing 100% confirmation of parentage. It will confirm that there is a 99.89999% (or other high number when it's a 'positive' test) chance that the two being tested are biologically related. The testing certificate will also state that in the opinion of the testing center, the two subjects are, or are not, related.
A judge can compel a parent to have their child's DNA sample submitted to the court in a custody dispute.
A judge can compel a parent to have their child's DNA sample submitted to the court in a custody dispute.
Do you mean the DNA sample that they took themselves? This wouldn't meet the stringent conditions of a court-ordered test (the witness to the swab etc). The court would lay itself open to a fraudulent sample being used - e.g. a sibling's DNA.
Or do you mean that they could be ordered to undergo a test, under the conditions you described?
It depends on the state. In certain states, the husband is assumed to be the father of the child, and if he does not contest paternity himself, then no one else can claim custody. The OM cannot get the paternity tested. That is the way the law should be. If a man fathers a child with a married woman, he shouldn't have any rights to the child. To he11 with him. He trampled all over the rights of the BH. If OM wants a child, he can have one with an eligible female. He shouldn't be allow to break up a marriage which could possible have other kids involved as well.
You may feel different if and when you have children. Sorry. Don't agree.
What? The WW has no part in this?
Who is saying that the WW has no part in this? If you're thinking that there are no consequences for the WW in an OC situation, you are sorely mistaken. I've been living it for almost three years now, and I have suffered plenty of consequences for my actions.
I was countering the point that the OM has no rights. I could just as easily argue that the WW has no rights and should give up the OC to OM. THAT is my point.
Arguing otherwise is sexist. It puts women above men in the parenting equation. He is as much of a parent to the OC as she is. She could just as easily, as thousands of women do, keep quiet and let her BH raise this child as his own without him ever knowing any different.
Too many men have found out after a D that some or all of the children he raised aren't his and then HE is stuck with CS.
There are MASSIVE consequences for a man to raise an OC, to include the fact that he would be liable for CS if she decides to stray again or leave.
So forgive me if I disagree. You have the rare breed of man willing to raise a child that isn't his. That's good for you.
But this poor man isn't thinking clearly. There is a nasty and unhealthy situation which in reality can be put to rest with a DNA test, considering that the BH could very well be the father.
If that's the case, then this whole thing ends.
A judge can compel a parent to have their child's DNA sample submitted to the court in a custody dispute.
Do you mean the DNA sample that they took themselves? This wouldn't meet the stringent conditions of a court-ordered test (the witness to the swab etc). The court would lay itself open to a fraudulent sample being used - e.g. a sibling's DNA.
Or do you mean that they could be ordered to undergo a test, under the conditions you described?
I'm pretty confident that she means that a court would only accept court approved methods.
Do you mean the DNA sample that they took themselves? This wouldn't meet the stringent conditions of a court-ordered test (the witness to the swab etc). The court would lay itself open to a fraudulent sample being used - e.g. a sibling's DNA.
Or do you mean that they could be ordered to undergo a test, under the conditions you described?
The judge will more than likely allow a notarized test done if his court approves of the testing site. (There are quite a few.)
Tests done at home are worthless to the court. The chain of custody of the samples cannot be confirmed. So yes, you're correct - he would tell them they needed to perform the witnessed test.
I would suggest an at-home test in this case. It's equally accurate to a notarized test but isn't admissible in court.
I'm pretty confident that she means that a court would only accept court approved methods.
Yeppers.
That's why I'd suggest they do an at-home. The court will not allow that test to be admitted.
But this poor man isn't thinking clearly. There is a nasty and unhealthy situation which in reality can be put to rest with a DNA test, considering that the BH could very well be the father.
If that's the case, then this whole thing ends.
But who are you to be the judge of whether or not wanthealing's BH isn't thinking clearly? Just because he doesn't want a DNA test performed on his child (at least at this time) doesn't mean he's not thinking clearly. Just because that's what you would do, doesn't mean it is what every man would do. And I don't think wanthealing should force the issue if her BH is against the DNA test.
Approximately 60 posts ago I asked that this thread return to the original topic---helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage.
NOT the rights of the OP (who is not here posting with us) nor the BH (also not here) but helping this member!!
My request has obviously been ignored.
PLEASE help her with suggestions FOR HER MARRIAGE!! If you are unable to do so,,PLEASE REFRAIN from posting!!
If you choose to concentrate on the rights of parents, biological or not, start your own thread!!
To put the DNA test issue at rest, here are the facts from our attny:
An at-home test is not admissible in court (particularly when no witness is present, as in my case).
If we do an at-home test beforehand and the judge asks us if we know the paternity, we have to be honest. We cannot purjure ourselves. Thus the reason my BH wants to wait until all the court stuff is out of the way, then we can do a private test for ourselves so that we know what we need to tell OC and family.
As for OM's rights, we are willing to let the court determine that. Just as OM is fighting for rights, so are we. We can live with whatever the court decides, and we'll move on with life one way or another while working it out to maintain absolute NC. But ideally we would like to keep him away until OC is old enough to make a decision about what OC wants. Again, I'd like for advice about marital recovery, and how I can help in my BH's healing process (without pursuing a DNA test, since that's not an option right now), not beat the "OM rights and DNA testing dead horse." My BH is unshakeable in his decision and I support whatever he wants to do.
The other issue I'd like advice on is how to tell the in-laws about A. We already assume they will advise BH to leave me; he is prepared for that. BH is even prepared to be disowned over this, though I hope it doesn't come to that. But if anyone has been through this and has some advice on how to confess an A to in-laws and other family, we could really use it. Perhaps my BH will read something that compels him to want to tell sooner than later, since I really want to get the confession over with--but only with BH's approval, of course.
wanthealing, whatever you do, DO NOT voluntarily get a DNA test if your BH isn't asking for one. This will just give the OM leverage in his court case�
Writer1, it sounds awfully like you are advising this WW to keep her BH in this marriage/household under (likely) false or at least ambiguous conditions. Gee, that sounds like a great way to renew a marriage�start with a year-long affair and all the deceit that goes along with it, add in an OC whose father is very likely her recent ex-lover, hide ALL of that from the extended family who are led to believe otherwise, and then avoid or discourage the truth about paternity from being definitively uncovered by the BH because �he didn�t ask� and the real answer may be legally inexpedient in court.
That doesn�t sound like openness and transparency to me! It sounds a lot like WW-a$$ covering and using a man who is emotionally wrecked right now. The BH here should be respected enough to make his own decisions armed with facts. Yes, the BHs paternity can be proven or disproven without the OM knowing or the test being legally admissible. He has a right to know in advance no matter how he chooses to proceed afterward!
OM did a non-legal test behind my back the one and only time he saw the child, but no one saw him perform it. That's why we have our doubts about its credibility. My H and I had only started trying, so it's not like we were having issues getting preggie. And our plan is to get a DNA test done after all the court stuff and at that point tell everyone everything, including OC. Ideally later OC can decide if she wants to know OM�
Ahhh, hate to tell you this, WH, but if I�m hearing you right, I would have zero doubt about its (medical) credibility. Correct me if I�m wrong, but I�m gathering from what you wrote that:
--OM submitted samples from himself and OC the one time they were together behind your back. (All that�s required for DNA matching is a cheek swab�any cellular material is sufficient.)
--The results came back as a match (i.e. half of OC�s genetic material matched his).
If true, that is definitive medical proof (even if legally inadmissible due to chain of evidence concerns) that he is the bio father to the tune of 99.9999%.
The converse would not be true. If the results showed no match, that certainly wouldn�t disprove he was the bio father cuz he could have used sample(s) from random unverified sources. In other words, it would be
easy to falsify the test to a negative result but impossible to falsify it to a positive one (unless OM has another bio child to sample from).
In addition, if you �doubt the credibility� of OM�s paternity claim, why would you be planning on later telling OC about OM so she can decide �if she wants to know� him? How would that be a concern at all unless you were pretty darn sure right now that OM was OC�s father?
It�s strange. In reading your posts, you expressed little doubt at all before about who was the bio father and your actions in telling both OM & BH back that up. I believe that you personally know fully well that your daughter is genetically from the OM. You hope to save your marriage and you are vexed that your BH is acting out like he has been. But, you will never be able to truly restore your marriage as long as there is a lack of transparency, facts that go �unspoken�, or ambiguous unanswered questions. Your BH deserves better and he�s obviously too emotionally distraught right now (punching holes in walls!) to make judgments, especially given the fact that he is being withheld from the full story.
Well, I never had to tell my in-laws. My BH exposed to them during my A. So, when I got pregnant, they knew from the very beginning that the baby was an OC. But, I can say that they have been very accepting of the situation. They treat OC as their own grandchild. There have been no real issues with it so far. She calls them "grandma" and "grandpa" just like our other kids do. So, your in-laws may take this better than you think. Of course, it's going to be a shock for them, and your situation is complicated by the fact that they have been lead to believe that this baby is their biological grandchild for sometime. I think the sooner you tell them the better.
Melody had some good suggestions about how to tell them. I think you and your BH should do it together. Certainly, presenting a unified front in this is more likely to convey the fact that you and your BH are committed to this marriage and to dealing with this situation together.
wanthealing, whatever you do, DO NOT voluntarily get a DNA test if your BH isn't asking for one. This will just give the OM leverage in his court case�
Writer1, it sounds awfully like you are advising this WW to keep her BH in this marriage/household under (likely) false or at least ambiguous conditions. Gee, that sounds like a great way to renew a marriage�start with a year-long affair and all the deceit that goes along with it, add in an OC whose father is very likely her recent ex-lover, hide ALL of that from the extended family who are led to believe otherwise, and then avoid or discourage the truth about paternity from being definitively uncovered by the BH because �he didn�t ask� and the real answer may be legally inexpedient in court.
That doesn�t sound like openness and transparency to me! It sounds a lot like WW-a$$ covering and using a man who is emotionally wrecked right now. The BH here should be respected enough to make his own decisions armed with facts. Yes, the BHs paternity can be proven or disproven without the OM knowing or the test being legally admissible. He has a right to know in advance no matter how he chooses to proceed afterward!
One final time. No one is denying that her BH has a right to ask for a DNA test. He doesn't want one, not at this time at least. Why should he be forced to do something he doesn't want to do.
Wanthealing has made it very clear that she and her BH are on the same page as far as the DNA test goes and she doesn't need any further help with that. Can we stop beating the dead horse now?
To put the DNA test issue at rest, here are the facts from our attny:
An at-home test is not admissible in court (particularly when no witness is present, as in my case).
If we do an at-home test beforehand and the judge asks us if we know the paternity, we have to be honest. We cannot purjure ourselves. Thus the reason my BH wants to wait until all the court stuff is out of the way, then we can do a private test for ourselves so that we know what we need to tell OC and family.
This is as I suspected. Sadly, I was thinking about your case on my drive home and I suspect that you've been advised not to do the DNA test because if you are asked in court, you would have to answer honestly and that answer might establish the OM's paternity. Without that being established, if your state presumes the husband is the father, then the OM has no standing in court.
I certainly understand that as a legal strategy. However, it doesn't square with Marriage Builders which is about being honest and building a relationship. Not winning some sort of legal contest. Because unless you know with 100% certainty that the child is the OM's, you are keeping this information from your husband as well.
But then, if you know that with certainty because you didn't have sex with your husband, or he's been deemed sterile, or whatever, then wouldn't you have to be honest about that in court if asked?
So I'll ask again, what is your primary objective, to win sole custody of the child, or save your marriage.
You've been mostly given advice about having your way in court. I believe much of that advice will cost you in terms of saving your marriage.
So if you want to simply win your court case, continue on the path your husband has chosen. However, if you want to save your marriage, adopt a strategy that gets the affair and the paternity of the child into the open so you can work from a totally transparent situation.
Secrets only breed secrets and are not conducive to Marriage Building.
Again, what is Dr Harley's suggestion TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE?
Instead of asking us, both you and your husband buy some time with the Marriage Builders team and ask for a plan to recover your marriage while this is on-going. You would ask about the DNA test, telling your in-laws, etc from the perspective of restoring the marriage, not winning a case in court.
They can't give legal advice, but they can give advice from the perspective of saving your marriage, which I believe is your most pressing problem right now.
You have to have a sound marriage regardless how the court actions go.
According to Dr. Harley's POJA, any decision has to be agreed upon by both me and BH. Is that not BH's right to "be in denial" about DNA and exposure if he wants to be? And I must support it, even if I don't think it's best for all involved. Until we both agree to a change in action, we must follow this path. Maybe my BH isn't ready for the transparency you speak of. I've now become fully transparent with him so that he knows every detail about everything, but it's BH's choice if he wants to accept it or share it with the family, right? If I tried to force him to see differently, to him, that would be a love buster.
And if at any time BH decides he does not want any part of me, OC, or our M, he will be free and clear with no obligation (unless OC turns out to be his). He knows that, but he wants to make M work and wants OC in his life. That's where he's at now, and now is all we can deal with. We just need guidance on how to find love amidst the rough waters we're neck-deep in. The rest will just have to pan itself out one step at a time.
Enlightened, you are correct that we need to set our focus on the M. Somehow we seem to think that the court case and our M go hand-in-hand, but that's not the reality. You've given me a good reminder. Thanks.
And Tawanda, thank you for being a beacon of hope with your words several posts back. I end up pretty discouraged on this forum at times, but some sweet words now and then are good for the soul.
According to Dr. Harley's POJA, any decision has to be agreed upon by both me and BH. Is that not BH's right to "be in denial" about DNA and exposure if he wants to be? And I must support it, even if I don't think it's best for all involved.
If you don't agree, this is not a POJA, wanthealing. Click on the link on the right of your screen "The Policy of Joint Agreement" and read the article. You'll also want to read about negotiating to resolve conflict in that article, as well.
This is POJA: Never do anything without an
enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.
FWIW: As a 'love child' I can tell you that truth has a way of coming out, even when you think you've got it all 'under control.' I'm with your BH on waiting on the DNA test, though.
I understand your point, maritalbliss, but I took that to mean that I cannot expose anything unless we both enthusiastically agree. And as for negotiating, we are both okay with waiting until the court stuff is done and then we can hopefully both enthusiastically agree to get the DNA test and expose everything asap. Does that make sense?
I understand your point, maritalbliss, but I took that to mean that I cannot expose anything unless we both enthusiastically agree. And as for negotiating, we are both okay with waiting until the court stuff is done and then we can hopefully both enthusiastically agree to get the DNA test and expose everything asap. Does that make sense?
Perfect sense. Thank you, wh
WantHealing,
I feel so bad about the situation you & your h are going through. It's tough,,no doubt about it. And he's having problems,,no doubt about that either.
Because you are in close contact with his family, I think full disclosure with them will help,,not only him but your marriage. I agree going to them together, as a united front, with help for the initial disclosure. I'd allow him to talk first,,to let them know the situation, your joint decisions and your joint committment to the marriage. HE is their son, they are going to (perhaps reluctantly) accept his wishes. They are probably going to be shocked, heartbroken, but PLEASE allow for their initial responses. They may lash out at you but PLEASE try to understand their shock and anger. I have no doubt they love their son, you and that baby. They DO NOT want to lose that baby either. In six months, I have no doubt SHE IS their grandbaby,,no matter WHO her bio-father is. But give them a moment,,it might take alittle while.....
As for you & your H,, again, it's gotta be difficult, with the court case interferring, creating triggers. IF you have ceased ALL contact, confessed to your H regarding ALL prior contact, and are doing all you can to assure him HE is the ONLY one and devoted yourself to making him feel SAFE, you can only continue.
How about reminding him everyday of the goal. I DO NOT mean verbally reminding him! I mean by actions, not words. Keeping sending him those texts,,,, when he has been triggered, hug him, tell him you're sorry & what can you do TODAY to make him feeel better. That used to help me.
wanthealing,
You sound like you have the no contact thing and the transparency thing already in place and you are making all your decisions together.
I guess the next thing should be conversations other than the affair or the paternity ............and how about recreational time spent together, go to the movies, go out for supper together, just enjoy each other without all this hanging over you for an evening................and of course lots of affection, hand holding, hugging, kissing good morning and good evening..............that sort of thing.......
Nerly and Jessi, those are excellent excellent ideas. My BH knows all the dirt, thankfully, but I should probably remind him more of my devotion. Plus I think I do need to spend more time reminding him of the goal and spending more time together dating. With a young baby it gets hard to find time, but we need to make time one way or another. Maybe if we spend more time dating he won't have time to obsess about the court situation--especially since the court case is in limbo at the moment and out of our hands.
And also thank you about the preparation for confession day to my in-laws. I will not get defensive, since I have no defense anyways, and I will let them lash out and mull over things until they are ready to make a decision about keeping me in thier lives or out. My prayers is that they'll eventually forgive and that time will heal...my fingers will be crossed for however long it takes!
want I know you have tried to get your H here with no success.
with all the anger that he has and his outbursts the best thing for your marriage (IMHO) is to get him on here where he can have an outlet for his anger instead if knocking holes in the wall and kicking the dog.
not sure exactly how but you have to find a way.
from Dr Harley's words and yours, your marriage will continue to struggle until he learns to control his anger
WantHealing,
My ex-DiL ran off with another man and stayed gone for a month before she returned home to reconcile with my son. 8-1/2 months later, my granddaughter was born...a few weeks premature, and I know this because I saw the estimated due date on the nurse's blackboard at the nurses' station. Still...we knew it was a possibility that this beautiful little girl was a product of her affair.
Our son knew this, as well, but we decided, as soon as we learned of the pregnancy, that if he was willing to be this baby's daddy, then she would also be our granddaughter.
The marriage did not last, and ended in divorce a little over 2 years later. However, this little girl was entwined in our hearts and was/is the apple of our son's eye. She was a big Daddy's girl, right from the start. Her mother said that once, when she was feeding the baby, our granddaughter heard our son's voice outside on the porch and nearly jumped out of her mother's arms, trying to get to her daddy.
There were many, many times when, if he allowed himself to think about it, our son would literally cry over the thought that she wasn't really his child. He never wanted a DNA test because he didn't want to know for sure that she WASN'T his. The OM never made any claims on her, probably because he didn't want to pay child support, but he did call up a babysitter one time to see if the babysitter would bring the baby outside so he could "get a look at her". The babysitter refused.
When our granddaughter was 8 years old, her mother moved to Texas to be with the man she later married. Our son refused to allow her to leave the state with their children. Our ex-DiL tried to claim that he shouldn't have custody of our granddaughter because he was not the bio-father. The judge ordered a DNA test to be done and ordered HER to pay for it. In the meantime, our son did the home DNA test and sent it to the lab. It came back with over a 99% chance that he was the father. Ex-DiL never did come up wth the money for the DNA test, and finally agreed to relinquish custody to our son.
Oh, and in the meantime, the FOM called our son and told him that there was no need to worry about his trying to take our girl away...that he would testify on our son's behalf if needed...that as far as he was concerned, our son was her father. Our son told him, "Well, it's just as well that you never tried to be in her life, cuz she's not yours, never has been, and never will be. I have the DNA proof in hand."
The funny thing is...I was not the least bit surprised that she is our bio-grandchild. Somehow, I also "knew" she was...but it really didn't matter. We loved her even when we thought she wasn't really completely ours.
A few months ago, my ex-DiL wrote me a note to apologize for the way she treated us and to express regret for her actions during her marriage to our son. She said that she would never forget how, the first time we saw her after she returned home to our son, was how I hugged her and said, "I'm glad you're back home." She also said that she was terrified of what we would say upon learning of her pregnancy with our granddaughter, and that she was overwhelmed with gratitude...and yes, guilt...for our acceptance and love for the baby.
P.S. My daughter says that I "cloned" our granddaugher, because she has "ways" like me!
Excellent post, bettergullet.
What is the current status of the custody case? Has the OM won the appeal?
Your H should come here and get his own advice. I understand you wish to save your marriage. No one better to advise him than those of us here who understand his emotions and have walked that path.
But if OM gets granted a right to pursue custody, you will find it very difficult to shut him out of the child�s life. Courts don�t normally do that short of the OM being a convict. If he�s an average guy with average issues, he will be given some form of visitation and you�re not likely to get sole physical and legal custody if he�s a fairly normal person.
That is why I advocate a settlement. Litigation is horrendously stressful for everyone involved. Conflict is kept alive when it happens.
If he�s denied the appeal, then it will be effectively over and OM will be stripped of his rights. But I sure hope that if your H decides not to stay in the marriage that you won�t then hose him with CS payments for a child that isn�t his. That�s when you need to step up and get whatever jobs you need to get to take care of YOUR child.
I have yet to see a court allow OM visitation or any level of custody when the WW and BH are still married living as husband and wife. The law of presumptions job is to protect the original marriage contract and family.
I agree with TheRoad.
Think of the chaos that could result if just any man could challenge a husband's paternity of a child of the marriage! A man who wants a married woman (even if there had been no affair) could cause all kinds of trouble by simply claiming to the father of one of her children!
So I think it's a draw when it comes to which, the bio mother or the bio father is the better parent. So consider which is more important, your marriage or having custody of the child born from the affair.
I hesitate to enter this beehive
but can I say:
The OM isn't married. Would it not make more sense for this child to be raised in a two-parent home?
That�s the very heart of the argument. By that thought process, all men who don�t have primary custody should drop out of the equation so that the kids can be raised by the ex wife and her new man, whomever that may be.
No. The ideal scenario is to not get into this situation in the first place. The answer is NOT to strip someone of their parental rights or to deny the child the right to know their biological parents.
Your logic does not follow.
The exhusband is the bio dad and the legal dad as well and his status can never be challanged.
The OM first has to get the court to agree to a paternity test. This rarely happens. Again the law of presumption is there to deny the OM his legal standing as the dad.
The OM knows this going in.
The OM knows the law wil give his OC to the BH.
The OM knows that he will never get to see his OC until he reaches legal age, if he can find him.
Yet the OM willing knocks up the WW.
Then cries the law is now against him.
Well the law has been against the OM before he got the WW to lift up her skirt and drop her panty's.
Approximately 60 posts ago I asked that this thread return to the original topic---helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage.
NOT the rights of the OP (who is not here posting with us) nor the BH (also not here) but helping this member!!
My request has obviously been ignored.
PLEASE help her with suggestions FOR HER MARRIAGE!! If you are unable to do so,,PLEASE REFRAIN from posting!!
If you choose to concentrate on the rights of parents, biological or not, start your own thread!!
If this remains so, then you have two choices. You can renounce your parental rights (which I doubt you even want to consider but you should if you want to save your marriage) or you can push for a court decision and roll the dice. The latter, unless the OM is somehow legally �unfit�, is�prepare yourself�very likely going to result in some sort of joint custody/visitation arrangement. In other words, Mr. OM is very likely going to be granted the legal right to see/have his daughter part-time.
Highly unlikely OM will get anything.
I am no expert as I am a WW as well.
But someone wrote a useful analogy about a BS. That he is like a large donor to a library/foundation. He chooses to give it to you and you should be thankful for anything that is given. Also, from a business class you have to show the person you want the donation from admiration, show that you know that they are doing you a favor, what they get out of it from giving you a donation.
Some tips, being open and honest of course. Doing little things. Not fighting helps or expecting your BS to forgive or forget right away. Just be patient and take it one day at a time. Be there for him whenever he needs it.
Try to find things that both of you would enjoy doing together inside and outside of the house. Try having pleasant conversations besides the relationship and the affair (this pushed my BS away from talking and analyzing).
Sorry I don't have the greatest information. Good luck and make sure to take care of yourself as well. If you are not happy with yourself, then how can someone else want to be with you.
Approximately 60 posts ago I asked that this thread return to the original topic---helping this member repair & rebuild her marriage.
NOT the rights of the OP (who is not here posting with us) nor the BH (also not here) but helping this member!!
My request has obviously been ignored.
PLEASE help her with suggestions FOR HER MARRIAGE!! If you are unable to do so,,PLEASE REFRAIN from posting!!
If you choose to concentrate on the rights of parents, biological or not, start your own thread!!
Hello I read that post after I posted most of my ramblings.
LadyClueless, I pray my MIL is as forgiving as you! Right now everyone is so happy and blissfully ignorant. I wish I never would have been so selfish and caused this to happen, but even if they never want to see me again, I hope they will continue to love the OC. OC sure loves them, and I would hate for OC to be the one who loses out because of my sin.
A note to all involved again,
Please STOP the conjecture on this thread and stick to the application of MB concepts. If your judgement prevents you from sharing the clear MB concepts needed to help this poster with their marriage, then refrain from posting on this thread.
I have net read the last 6 pages.
Not worth my time.
Did you answer my questions?
#1. Did your lawyer give you any time length on this type (paternity of AP) of litigation? Did he/she think it is going to be weeks/months?
The reason I ask is that this seems to be a hot bed trigger for your M. Until this is settled you may have to go into a more protective "plan". Can you call Dr.H?
Once this pressure is over, you may be able to go into a traditional plan A. But wrecking your own house? That is not in any way appropriate-- (esp. around a baby)
New question
#2. Is there a chance that this child is your H's?
It does not matter what my personal opinion is of a bio dad's rights. MB has a system that IMHO gives you the best shot at recovery. I would follow Dr H's advice
What I mean is, you can not work on a plan a if you are not safe.
In this case, I mean physically safe. I am worried about this.
I am not making your H a villian, either. He just may be over his limit. This may not be forever, but for today, right now- he seems to be at a level of anger/fear/resentment above his capacity to control.
I have said this before, (to many 2 x 4's)
Everyone has a limit. Anyone who says otherwise is just kidding themselves.
want,
as far as your inlaws, they will probably follow and support whatever path your h chooses to do
LadyClueless, I pray my MIL is as forgiving as you! Right now everyone is so happy and blissfully ignorant. I wish I never would have been so selfish and caused this to happen, but even if they never want to see me again, I hope they will continue to love the OC. OC sure loves them, and I would hate for OC to be the one who loses out because of my sin.
I don't think you're giving your ILs enough credit. I suspect they will honor their son's request to accept what has happened.
wh, there is something really cleansing about honesty. It is refreshing. You don't have to worry that something is going to 'come up' that you'll have to deal with. You are in control of your life when you devote it to being honest and upfront with people. I hope you and your H will take care of this sooner rather than later, for the health of your family.
Just my two cents.
Want, we exposed to my IL's the day after D-Day. I remember being scared the first time we visited them after that. My MIL and FIL had the same reaction as LadyClueless. They hugged me, told me they loved me, and that I was their daughter always.
My MIL made a statement a couple of years ago that really struck me....for forgiving people, forgiveness is always possible.
For sure, you aren't giving your ILs enough credit.
My nephew's oldest daughter is not his biological daughter. He did have it confirmed via DNA testing, but it doesn't matter to him.
HE was there for the pregnancy, HE has been the one to raiser her. They pulled off some gymnastics to have the parental rights stripped.
That little girl is my sister's granddaughter, and nothing can dispute that.
It's not the child facing rejection here. And by being dishonest, you are only stacking the odds against you. The longer you wait, the worse it will get.
I think your IL's reaction depends on their background and culture.
This wouldn't fly at all with my family, especially if they were fooled for months into believing that the child was mine.
The best way to approach this right now is to let the legal matters ride. You can't control the pace or the outcome.
So the focus, at this point, is on whether or not you can save your marriage.
The real test will come when the OM is or is not given rights and that comes to a resolution.
Right now there is a bond between you and your H that is based on a very unhealthy dynamic that is rooted in conflict. The OM is the enemy, and you two are squaring off against him.
I believe this is holding your H back from confronting the reality that you cheated on him and have a child from another man.
This legal fight gives him an out to cope with his emotions by deflecting his anger at you towards OM.
You might really have your hands full when OM is out of the picture and the BH is forced to deal with the reality.
My gut tells me that the OM will likely not be given rights. He's already been denied and the odds of reversal are low. So the truth is that you could focus your efforts on starting to heal.
Focusing on OM and what happens legally with him will hold you in an artificial mode of bonding, but it's one based on conflict.
Not healthy.
It depends on the state. In certain states, the husband is assumed to be the father of the child, and if he does not contest paternity himself, then no one else can claim custody. The OM cannot get the paternity tested. That is the way the law should be. If a man fathers a child with a married woman, he shouldn't have any rights to the child. To he11 with him. He trampled all over the rights of the BH. If OM wants a child, he can have one with an eligible female. He shouldn't be allow to break up a marriage which could possible have other kids involved as well.
You may feel different if and when you have children. Sorry. Don't agree.
What? The WW has no part in this?
I wouldn't bang a married woman, so I'm not worried about it. And I know how I feel about other men, so I'm pretty sure my stance won't change.
Hello WH,
Just perusing and saw your thread. You sure have been thru a whirlwind of comments and posts the last couple of days!
I honestly don't have any business commenting on your posts because I have not been faced with anything like you and your H are. From reading, I gather that you have been on another of the forums for awhile and decided to move over here.
That being said, you and your H certainly need prayers and support more than you need controversy right now. And, you will have my prayers for your situation. As I read your posts I came to agree with what jessitaylor and a few others have said - to get back to MB basics and put the court case aside in your minds for the moment. I don't know the history of your situation since you posted elsewhere, but it sounds like you boh are at least at the beginning stages of attempting recovery of your M. I know the case has to be a distraction, especially for your H, but there are ways to temper this such as, spending lots of quality UA time everyday together and making time if necessary, reassuring your H that EP's are in place, and just simply going the extra miles at this time to reassure him of your devotion to him and the M. You two also need to assure yourselves daily that the only people who should have any sway regarding the decision to attempt to recover your M are you and your H - not the OM and his case, not a stranger on here who posts that your H should walk away, and not even the reaction of your IL's. (I have to believe that when you do receive the results of the DNA test, and if negative, reveal that to your IL's that they will be more understanding and respectful of your decision than you two may think).
I also feel that along with the reassurance you are attempting to give to your H, that you simply need to give him time. I think his outbursts are due to not fully processing all of what has happened and that he has no counsel aside from you. If his outburts continue even after the two of you attempt to resovle this on your own, then you may have to separate from him for a period, simply to give you and your child, and him for the matter, a safe haven. In the meantime you should encourage him as calmly and as factually as possible that he needs to find someone - whether MB, a priest or minister, or a close and trusted relative - to help guide him thru this time.
Well, just my three cents! Best wishes and prayers!
Tom
I really appreciate the encouragment that perhaps my ILs will forgive and accept whatever outcome we face. They love their son and I hope won't want to excommunicate him from their lives, and I'm part of that package. And I'll do whatever I have to to demonstrate the changes that have taken place in my heart.
As for the exposure, I've been really trying to encourage my BH to tell them now, not later, while we can still include them in this whole process rather than letting it all out when we're dealing with aftermath. He's seen these posts explaining why it's best to do it sooner, but he not settled in his mind that it's what's best. So...the wait continues.
As for your words, helpthelostdads, last night my BH and I talked extensively about all possible outcomes and where BH stands with each one. We discussed that he needs to be prepared for full exposure to everyone, possible joint custody, and possibly finding out OC's not his biologically. When faced with those possibilities--dare I say likelihoods--he said with no hesitation that he's in it for the long haul. He can be happy with whatever outcome. And he knows the angry outbursts have to end, but we both understand that may not happen until we're through the mess. I can wait on that. But it was good for him to recognize and acknowledge reality and lucidly state that he can live with whatever we face...as long as we face it together. So I think BH has finally made the crossover into real life and has accepted it. And on that note, yesterday was the first day of no angry outburst in 6 months! Yay for progress!
As for the exposure, I've been really trying to encourage my BH to tell them now, not later, while we can still include them in this whole process rather than letting it all out when we're dealing with aftermath. He's seen these posts explaining why it's best to do it sooner, but he not settled in his mind that it's what's best. So...the wait continues.
Keep encouraging it! You are right, they will stand and help you fight for this little angle if they love the OC, especially if they know your husbands reasons and desire to be the OC father
It will help get a lot of stress off your husband shoulders if it's out and in the open.
Tom, my BH has sought counsel from our pastor, which has been an immense help. And putting the court case aside is probably the best advice we've gotten, while applying MB principles to aid in redirecting our focus from court to our M. I have a good feeling if we keep working at demonstrating love, we'll find our "happily ever after."
That little girl is my sister's granddaughter, and nothing can dispute that.
My parents would say the same thing about my brother and me.
And he knows the angry outbursts have to end, but we both understand that may not happen until we're through the mess.
May I make a suggestion? As a veteran AO'r: I could always feel the anger welling up before I actually blew. I used to grab a pillow and slam it against things (not people
) when that happened. I found that slamming it against door frames worked quite well to defuse some of my frustration and anger.
No joke. Tell BH to try it. It might help.
Thx, marital! I will! That beats holes in walls!
As for your words, helpthelostdads, last night my BH and I talked extensively about all possible outcomes and where BH stands with each one. We discussed that he needs to be prepared for full exposure to everyone, possible joint custody, and possibly finding out OC's not his biologically. When faced with those possibilities--dare I say likelihoods--he said with no hesitation that he's in it for the long haul. He can be happy with whatever outcome. And he knows the angry outbursts have to end, but we both understand that may not happen until we're through the mess. I can wait on that. But it was good for him to recognize and acknowledge reality and lucidly state that he can live with whatever we face...as long as we face it together. So I think BH has finally made the crossover into real life and has accepted it. And on that note, yesterday was the first day of no angry outburst in 6 months! Yay for progress!
This is unquestionably excellent and definitely constitutes progress. Hat�s off to you�
Isn�t it amazing how often
unequivocal honesty & transparency produce positive results? I am very glad to hear that your BH has been made aware (especially by you personally) of ALL the possible & likely outcomes, repercussions, and future steps to be prepared for. Do you know why �yesterday was the first day of no angry outburst in 6 months�? It is simple�your BH finally is starting to feel RESPECTED. You have informed him fully and shown him the courtesy and respect he deserves in allowing him to make his own decisions in full knowledge. Encouragingly, he seems on board with recovery & OC now that he�s a fully involved realistic partner instead of a passive, confused, violated victim. Excellent work.
I really doubt �exposure to your in-laws� (even if the OC turns out to be from the OM) will go anything but WELL. Sure, it will be uncomfortable and awkward at first but there�s a high degree of likelihood that they will be understanding and supportive of both of you. Once again, people are usually very, very forgiving when presented with sincerity, contrition, and truthfulness & usually very, very unforgiving when those elements are denied.
Now, the 2 of you can face together the next hurdle�which is getting & keeping OM out of your lives completely and permanently. It sounds like the prospects for that are also good. Well done.
WH,
You said something that struck me as strange and I am not sure I understand your thoughts on it. You said
last night my BH and I talked extensively about all possible outcomes and where BH stands with each one. We discussed that he needs to be prepared for full exposure to everyone, possible joint custody, and possibly finding out OC's not his biologically. When faced with those possibilities--dare I say likelihoods--he said with no hesitation that he's in it for the long haul. He can be happy with whatever outcome. And he knows the angry outbursts have to end, but we both understand that may not happen until we're through the mess. I can wait on that. But it was good for him to recognize and acknowledge reality and lucidly state that he can live with whatever we face...as long as we face it together. So I think BH has finally made the crossover into real life and has accepted it. And on that note, yesterday was the first day of no angry outburst in 6 months!
You seem to think his anger is because he could not and did not face reality. That seems to me a HUGE disrespectful comment about your H. His problem is not that he could not face reality, it was that the reality you put on him, put him in purgatory. He had no choice in this "reality" he is in.
If anyone was not facing reality it was you and the fantasy of the OM and how life would go once you had the affair.
I agree with a few other posters, alot of your H's anger came from and will come from the "reality" that he had no say in any of this and frankly the courts have more say even now. The child will always be YOURS so your folks will accept it. The child is not biologically his or his families, that requires a series of decisions that are not automatic, but require some serious soul searching. They won't blame the child, but how you handle it will help or hurt how they react.
Your H has decided that he is going to hang in there. That is not "facing reality", that is taking reality (one he does not like) and deciding to deal with it in a positive way.
I worry that you seem to think he has been hiding from "reality" with his anger, when in fact it is likely that the "reality" is what made him angry. He had no control, no respect given (your affair and the child not to mention the OM), and no say. He is presented with a "take it or leave it" situation and most folks don't react kindly to being forced into a corner.
It sounds as if he is working his way out of the corner, but his decision is still "binary" (yes/no).
Please note and you can pass this on to him that anger is a secondary emotion driven by primary ones such as: pain, fear, frustration, anxiety, etc. Do you think he felt any of those? I'm guessing he felt them all and does now. You two might discuss which ones he feels and how to address the primary ones so that the anger can be short curcuited.
I look forward to your response.
God Bless,
JL
I worry that you seem to think he has been hiding from "reality" with his anger, when in fact it is likely that the "reality" is what made him angry. He had no control, no respect given (your affair and the child not to mention the OM), and no say. He is presented with a "take it or leave it" situation and most folks don't react kindly to being forced into a corner.
Yes, exactly. That's why I think the last 8 pages of this thread are just wishful thinking. Now that the OP has confessed, given all of her passwords and daily whereabouts to her husband, and instructed him thoroughly in how their recovery should go, she (and quite a few people here) seems to think they will live happily ever after.
Wanthealing, it seems as if you think that if you keep your husband's thinking focused on the direction that YOU want things to take, and reinforce that through continual dialogue, that he will just play along. Your husband's refusal to do a simple DNA test and inability to tell his parents should tell you where his mind is REALLY at. Your husband isn't focused on your marriage right now, he's focused on damage control. Right now he doesn't have to make a decision, but he will have to soon.
I am very glad to hear that your BH has been made aware (especially by you personally) of ALL the possible & likely outcomes, repercussions, and future steps to be prepared for
Yes, great isn't it when a WS spells out what they see should happen to recover. Now that he's aware I'm sure he'll be more than happy to follow the game plan, meeting all milestones.
You have informed him fully and shown him the courtesy and respect he deserves in allowing him to make his own decisions in full knowledge.
And he should be very happy that he's getting to make a decision on his own, seeing that everything else has been decided for him. What a great set of options he gets to choose from.
Once again, people are usually very, very forgiving when presented with sincerity, contrition, and truthfulness & usually very, very unforgiving when those elements are denied.
SDWC man, I'm not trying to call you out but I couldn't resist when I read this. I know you're trying to encourage wanthealing, but this is a remarkably naive view.
These are all definitely good points, because it's clear to both my BH and me that he's stuck in damage control mode. His primary emotion that he said he feels is fear--fear of losing me to OM in the end. But when I tell him I'm not giving up on our marriage, he really embraces those words. That constant reassurance that I'm not leaving him seems to make a huge difference in how he reacts.
Essentially "reality" can be whatever choice my BH makes, and he knows that. In the past few days I think him reading the postings and tiring of the "defensive actions" have helped redirect his focus, and he does want it to be the M recovery. The angry outbursts have pretty much stopped since I've started this thread, and we're focusing on fun time together. We are both making tons of effort to really put each other first, and it's working.
As for the DNA issue, his basis for refusing to take the test is to keep OM away. My BH doesn't think the crime of adultery should warrant an OM to simply get what he wants without resistance. And really it's the victim (my BH) who should get to determine who he wants to forgive and who he doesn't want to forgive. So it's not about denial, really. But my BH has expressed a major change of heart that this case will not demand his attention anymore and he'll let the attnys deal with the details. So at least it's not on the forefront anymore.
And as for exposure to the fam, I think he's starting to agree that we need to get it over with. Baby steps. I think once it's out there the burden of secrecy will be lifted and we'll all breathe a sigh of relief. But I know he's concerned about his fam telling him to divorce me, and he doesn't want to fight with them about his choice to stay with me. Which is another reason I think he should tell sooner than later...so that at least he can hear what they have to say. All in all, I want my BH to have what he deserves--a happy life and a faithful wife and loving family. While I would rather die than hurt him again and I would swear on my life that I'd never do this to him again, if a fresh start is what is best for him, I'd rather him take it than stay with me and risk heartache. But I truly do hope he decides he wants to stay with me, because we've been through so much together over the course of our M (not relating to my A) and have something amazing and special that we both really cherish that only we can give each other.
Yes, great isn't it when a WS spells out what they see should happen to recover. Now that he's aware I'm sure he'll be more than happy to follow the game plan, meeting all milestones.
Actually, I did not tell him how to recover. Dr. Harley gave him counsel on this, and his other counselor has been reiterating similar principles about recovery. I simply am trying to remind him of what we're hearing in our counseling sessions, since ultimately it's for our M's good. He doesn't want our M to fail. He wants it to thrive. But he also needs to be reminded of what are love busters so that we can start eliminating them. And we're seeing a lot of improvement ever since we've vocalized the love busters and are talking through our hopes for our M.
WH,
You certainly like to use the "royal WE" don't you? Do you realize you make your H sound as if he is an idiot and that only with your guidance and reminders will he be able to reach the "right" decision? Man, talk about disrespectful judgements.
You speak of your H as if he is your child and you have no respect for his reasoning ability. You also agree he is "stuck in damage" control, but really that is a major factor right now. His family probably won't approve of his decision to remain with you. The OM is trying to insert himself into your life via the courts. YOu have proven to be a liar and a cheat. And he has to adjust to rearing another man's child when in fact he had no say in that other than to believe you took your vows seriously. What keeps rattling around in my head is the famous line
Other than that Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?
I'm not trying to beat you down, but I am trying to get you to see what your approach indicates to me. The seeds of the destruction of this marriage still remain in how you view, treat, and talk about your H.
He should be in damage control right now, because a lot of damage remains to be addressed his life. He needs more than your reassurance, he needs you to truely see him far differently than you have in the past. I understand that he takes heart in your commitment to the marriage, but what you don't understand is that this commitment of yours offers him options beyond simply divorcing you. That is good, but whether he wants to remain married or not, he must evaluate his comfort in this marriage, his sense of failure in this marriage, and whether he feels he is good enough to keep you from deciding to do this again.
What you have not factored in is the damage you have done to him. He is NOT confident of his abilities as a husband, a lover, and certainly as a father right now. You using the "royal WE" isn't really going to help. You meeting his needs, you changing your perspective on life, commitment, vows, and honor will help him.
I know you see the current problems as HIS problems with anger, but it is much deeper than that, and they start with you.
I would really like to hear YOUR plan for making the marriage better, and I mean things you are actually going to do, rather than the "I'll never do that again." type of statements. The articles on this site offer some great guidance toward making a plan that protects your spouse, your love, his love, and most of all making the marriage a good one. How are you using this information?
I look forward to your answers.
God Bless,
JL
The "we" I use in my postings is more or less representative of both of us, since my BH aids in my postings. Kind of like a passenger-seat poster. But if I do make him sound like an idiot, that is not my intention. Our real-life conversations are a lot more of me listening than talking, but ultimately my H and I--"we"--tend to be in agreement about all of this stuff.
I've asked my BH what I can do to make our M better, but he really doesn't give much feedback. He says he's happy with our relationship. He's stated what the love busters I do are, so I make intentional effort not to do love busters. Heck, we can even joke when I get close to a love buster and he calls me on it beforehand.
I'm also trying to communicate better, telling him how much I appreciate how hard he works, when he looks exceptionally handsome, reminding him how amazing a husband he is--none of which are flattery but sincere words from my heart. We've talked about what makes him feel "loved"--such as words of affirmation--so I make effort to give that to him regularly. I am making more effort to do the things with him that he enjoys and surprise him with trips or treats. Just trying to be more thoughtful. I'm taking more interest in his work, in his interests, in what's on his mind. He's never felt so loved, and I really enjoy lavishing him this way.
Those are the immediate things I've worked on, but I do need to re-read the articles to get a refresher on things that Dr. Harley suggests to accompany these efforts. Any suggestions?
My perspective has certainly changed, where before I felt "entitled" to feel "appreciated" and "loved," so when my H didn't show it the way I wanted it I looked to OM to fill in that void. I cared only about myself, and that had to change. I see my H and I as one now, where fulfilling my H inevitably fulfills me. Strange how not being a self-serving, thoughtless person can make such a difference in a M. That sense of entitlement has been demolished and in its place I'm working more on showing and expressing what I want to receive so that we're both getting what we want out of the relationship.
That's just the tip of the iceberg, but I'm daily trying to gain more knowledge and try new things to protect my H and our love. I truly appreciate your time, JL, and your care to bring this out, since I'm still fumbling through this and have so much to learn.
WH,
I hope you understand that I am responding to the language and feelings your language engenders.
Here is something that is very complicated to explain especially to someone who felt entitled and was not very interested in how her H was doing. What your H will need over time, we are talking years and decades now, is to feel and have a chance to be your hero. I know, I know, we just got done talking about how you are not feeling "entitled" and "selfish" and that is a good thing. So you see a fine line here don't you. If he is to be your hero, he must be able to do things for you that you truly appreciate and honor. Not just like or want. The reason it is a fine line is that often an entilted person wants their spouse to do everything for them, and then "rewards" them with something they should have had all along.
Two terms come to mind when talking to you. One is GRACE. I believe that if you live your life in GRACE, act with GRACE, and handle people with GRACE you will be a woman that your H will be proud to say he married.
The second term I have already use...HERO. In your mind and in your H's mind he needs to be your hero. It validates him, it guides him, it motivates him, and it benefits YOU, if he starts to see himself as your HERO. Now I am not talking about a swelled headed dictator, no I am talking about a man that you respect, that does what needs to be done, that when things gets hard hangs in there, and does this while letting you know he loves you.
Are you getting the sense that I am picky about words? I believe that things can be said in many ways, but some ways are more effective and lead to better actions and reactions than others, hence my comments to you.
It is sort of like a man/woman that refers to a child of their marriage as MY CHILD, rather than our CHILD. Technically, they are correct it is that individuals child, but in reality this child is being reared, supported and love by two people.
Do you see where I am going with this? Think about it and discuss how you and your H can lead your lives and your marriage with GRACE and heroism. What would that look like to each of you?
God Bless,
JL
I can see why you are picky about words, since ultimately it's such words that will either build up my M or destroy it.
I will definitely need to think about this--what grace and heroism look like in my own individual life, and also as reflected toward my H. To me grace is having mercy when mercy is not deserved, and sadly I admit that I had grace toward everyone BUT my H. Both friends and family thought I was the most loving person, quick to forgive and help anyone at any time, even those who treated me like crap. But the reality was that I didn't show grace to the one person that mattered most--my H. Even in the little things, I didn't "put up" with his bad moods or show a sweet spirit when he didn't meet my demands. Yes--demands. I was a nit-picky nag, and yet for some reason he had the grace to love me despite those qualities. So he's had grace long in the bag, but I'm working on that.
I guess grace could start with being kind to him always. "Kindness"--it's a simple word, but it means a lot to me. Being more considerate of his feelings, making home a place he can't wait to come to from work, giving him my full attention when I'm with him, dropping my pride when we disagree, when he does have an AO letting him vent and showing empathy...I'm sure there are tons more that will come up in a day, but those are ones that come to mind.
As for the heroism part, he truly is my hero. I want all of our COM to be like him. He's humble, strong, faithful, hardworking, funny, smart, honest...and obviously a lot more forgiving than I ever gave him credit for. I truly admire him. I brag to everyone about him, but again, sadly, I'm sure I don't show him that. I don't know how to show him he's my hero without making him feel like I'm just flattering him, but I do tell him the qualities that I hope our COM learn from him.
Since the A, my H has worked on the heroism part. He tells me how good a mother I am, how good a wife I am (laughable, I know), and compliments me with sincerity that I can almost taste. It makes me want to be even better for him when I hear those affirmations.
So, in a nutshell, I think I may understand what you're getting at. Tho I'm not sure if the execution is on the right page.
WH,
I have forgotten how many children do you all have?
Let's start this discussion with something I think you should strongly consider. It is a quote that deals with maturity and immaturity.
A child NEEDS what they want. An adult wants what they NEED.
What I worry about is telling someone who has the tendency to feel "entitled", that they need to make sure their spouse meets their needs. Do you see the issue? But if you look at that quote you will see how to do it. The things you truly NEED in your life your H should do his best to provide. The things you just want, cannot become needs or you are back in the "entitled" mindset.
You have children and if you have not already seen that quote in action you will as they get older.
Now let's talk about GRACE. It is NOT forgiving everyone. It is not tolerating everything people do. It is not being a person with no boundaries. It is a person that can handle people with the minimum of damage while maintaining their boundaries. It is a person that has standards for themself and others, and when those standards are not met, they make this known with a minimum of pain all the while expecting and working to attain those standards. It is a person that KNOWS what is important in their life, and focuses on those things. It is a person who has compassion and shows it to those needing it.
To be a woman of GRACE you have to know your boundaries. You have to develop plans/strategies to deal with any situation. You have to develop the ability to determine where forgiveness is warrented and where expectations of better behavior are required.
You said
To me grace is having mercy when mercy is not deserved, and sadly I admit that I had grace toward everyone BUT my H. Both friends and family thought I was the most loving person, quick to forgive and help anyone at any time, even those who treated me like crap. But the reality was that I didn't show grace to the one person that mattered most--my H. Even in the little things,
Look at this quote and tell me why you did this? Why do you think you felt it was alright to treat others that may not have deserved your GRACE with forgiveness, but the man who loved you was treated as he has been. To me your affair, you having an OC, you expecting your H to forgive you and rear another man's child are all extensions of how you have preceived your H and how you have treated him.
For him to be your HERO, he doesn't have to grow his hair or go to the weight room to look like Fabio. He doesn't have to leap tall buildings or even pull you from a burning building. What he has to have is a place in your heart and your mind where you keep the most important person in your life. I doubt that he is there yet, but you seem to be working on it.
But, to truly understand what you have put him through you need to understand how you have seen him, devalued him, demeaned him, and put him below all of your friends and family. You need to know why you felt it necessary to do that to him and why you felt it was OK.
I will tell you this. I get angry, and most angry when I am hurt/frustrated. It is a normal fight or flight reaction. I really don't think women understand what testosterone does, but it allows anger, surges of adrenilin, and with it comes strength, power, and an absence of pain. Men are built this way much more than women. When you see anger in your H, you must understand it is coming from frustration or pain most often. He can control some of it, but if the pain is too much he won't be able to control all of it. You can help. Be calm, talk to him and ask him how you can help him, and often just leave him alone until the surge of hormones passes.
I am not giving him a free pass about AO's. He needs to address these things, but to expect he will never get angry is not realistic either. Sort of like expecting little boys full of energy to sit quietly in a classroom and color neatly between the lines. You can expect it, but it is not going to happen.
Your H does need to become your hero and you need to become a woman that acts with GRACE. Please think about these things carefully.
God Bless,
JL
I had my H read these recent postings from you and we went to counseling together tonight and brought this conversation up. It was actually quite enlightening.
In answer to the question of why I put my BH waaay down the priority list, in talking through this tonight I discovered I have had a lot of resentment towards my BH. It's a long story, but early in our M he was controlling and abusive. Over time he mended his ways with the help of a counselor, but I never got over it. I resented the lack of love from early on in our M, which made it easy for me to excuse my infidelity. Certainly that logic is screwed up, I know, but that was partly why he was so quick to forgive me. We both hurt each other deeply, which my husband joked "cancel each other out" now that we've started to move forward. Neither of us wants to ever hurt each other again, and with GRACE I think we can reach that goal.
As for the testosterone, that does help me to understand him better. He definitely has a lot of it; he's always placed a lot of his identity in his toughness, so being dishonored like this is a real kick in the gut. But he's confessed to me that it's humbled him, which I've noticed as well, since he always thought he could control everyone and now he suddenly realizes he can't...and doesn't want to anymore. It's exhausting. But we both came up with a workable game plan for how I can respond to any AOs in a helpful way instead of escalating them. It pretty much reiterates what you suggest, except that he likes a "sounding board," not to be left alone. But I also don't want him to slip back into abusive patterns, so we've agreed he can contact our pastor if it gets too much.
As for the hero part, I think that will take time for me to see him differently from the man he used to be. But every day I want more of him, I need him more, I love him more, and he's seeing that change in how I act toward him. I think when our M is more fully healed he'll be that hero to me that I know he is.
WH,
So are you having a harder time forgiving him than he is forgiving you? If you act with GRACE, you will already have reached the goal WH. Seriously, it seems you two are closer to making this marriage a great one than you realize.
I hope I didn't offend your H with my posts, but what I said is what I felt to be the case given what you have said. Testosterone is good stuff, if it is used properly.
And it is what drives us men to do what we normally could not do.
As for the hero part, I think that will take time for me to see him differently from the man he used to be. But every day I want more of him, I need him more, I love him more, and he's seeing that change in how I act toward him. I think when our M is more fully healed he'll be that hero to me that I know he is.
Do you realize how much power you have in this relationship. With power comes responsibility and you need to realize that as well. Are you also seeing that he is changing as you change? Bet on it WH.
Must go. Take care.
JL
WH,
How are you doing these days?
JL
Well, let me just say, JL, that your advice has been a godsend. NC with OM is still going well--I don't even think about the SOB--and all of my focus is on loving my BH better. The AOs are pretty much nonexistant, and my BH has been caught laughing, smiling, and joking around. (I even got it on camera to prove it!) I've been really paying attention to how I act--focusing on living with grace and loving on my BH, and he's noticed. I've been working on eliminating any love busters I do, and my BH has reciprocated, which is bringing us closer to that hero goal.
The other night I felt like I was on my honeymoon again!
So, our marriage is better now than it's been in years. Sad that it took an A to get to this point, but my BH told me the other night that he has no regrets about any of this--that was shocking to hear. I think we both came to terms with what our M had become over the past few years--a series of unfulfilling dark days. Neither of us wants to ever go back to that. I'm definitely seeing how my attitude needed to change if we were going to have a healthy, thriving marriage, and BH is feeling like the head of the house again. We're in a good place.
I am still trying to prepare for if things in court don't go as hoped for, since I don't know how BH will work through that and I want to be everything he needs during that time. But he says he'll be okay with whatever happens. He just wanted to put up a good fight and "let go let God."
So...still taking it a day at a time, but definitely transitioning from wantshealing to healing.
Thanks for checking in, JL, and thanks for the helpful honesty. Some people just like to do the bashing, but it's the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism that make a difference. I think you're well beyond "just learning"...
Well, let me just say, JL, that your advice has been a godsend. NC with OM is still going well--I don't even think about the SOB--and all of my focus is on loving my BH better. The AOs are pretty much nonexistant, and my BH has been caught laughing, smiling, and joking around. (I even got it on camera to prove it!) I've been really paying attention to how I act--focusing on living with grace and loving on my BH, and he's noticed.
That's priceless. Keep loving him to death.
WH,
To paraphrase an over used statement. Your H will be your hero IF he has a good woman loving and supporting him.
He needs and has needed more emotional support than you realize, and you have opened the door for him to support you more as well. Funny how that nonlinear stuff works.
It was good to hear from you and I hope you keep the updates coming. I am not sure you realize how important your story is to this board and the many people who read but do not post.
Please keep updating and consider reaching out to others. You and your H have a message that is very important for others to hear.
Godo Bless,
JL
I skipped to the end so forgive me if I missed it.
My state has laws that block OM from any rights to OC, does yours not?
If OM wins some form of custody, or visitation, how will you handle that knowing that you can not have any contact with OM at all.
Does OM still live minutes away?
I just think that your husband has far to much to deal with. First you have another mans baby instead of his. Then the man that you brought into your marriage might be connected to your marriage for the rest of your lives. If he gets his way, he'll be at your daughters weddings, births, graduation. Exactly how is your husband expected to have the reminder of your infidelity thrown in his face every day. I don't agree with his anger and certainly not violence, but I also don't know how he could resign himself to a three parent family with the man you betrayed him with. Can you understand that side of his anger?
Ouch, I do understand that side of his anger, and I'm no longer asking that he not be angry. Instead I must ask what I can do to support him as he needs me to support him. To him that seems to be enough. While many men would not stick around in this situation, my BH wants to. And I am trying to give him a reason to.
Gack, we are concerned about the OM being around. Unfortunately our state doesn't really have any laws about interlopers, so that's what we're going back and forth in court over. And if we have to deal with shared custody at some point, we will probably have to have a mediator handle all arrangments (though my BH is leaning toward dealing with OM himself, since BH doesn't trust OC with a stranger). Unfortunately I may have to miss big events in OC's life if OM is there, but I can deal with that as it comes. We've talked about moving if dealing with OM gets to be too much for BH to handle. We're still working through those issues, and we really don't have any answers yet. We probably won't have answers until we get to that point. Though, we are interested in how others have dealt with this, since it's uncharted territory for us.
I'm glad things are getting better in your home.
Please keep us informed how this legal case progresses to the end.
Will do. I hope that our story can one day help other couples who go through this. My BH actually got a chance to share what he is going through with a friend contemplating D and after their talk his friend wants to save his M! My BH is an inspiration, that's for sure.
WH,
Pops over on the pregnancy board can help you guys. He has been through all of this. AutumnDay has been in your shows as well.
Have you looked at all of the people who have viewed your thread? You and your H are helping more than you realize.
God Bless,
JL
Gack, we are concerned about the OM being around. Unfortunately our state doesn't really have any laws about interlopers, so that's what we're going back and forth in court over.
How is that going?
And if we have to deal with shared custody at some point, we will probably have to have a mediator handle all arrangments (though my BH is leaning toward dealing with OM himself, since BH doesn't trust OC with a stranger).
I would highly recommend a mediator.
Has it been brought up to OM by your legal team that if he is awarded any parental rights, that he will also "win" the right to pay you child support? That makes some OM rethink there wish for rights.
Hi again, Gack. I actually just "thread-jacked" you on the pregnancy forum.
Here's where we are at the moment. The court outcome looks dismal. OM is pretty much guaranteed rights. BH is devestated to have to share OC with OM, and we haven't told anyone of the affair or OC's biology yet, so we have that to "look forward to" as well.
OM is fine with paying child support, though he's pushing for 50/50 custody to avoid paying. That thought sickens me and BH, because OC is still so young (mere months old) and OM is an alcoholic without a license and divorced/single and a womanizer. I don't see how any court could take a baby from a stable family environment (believe it or not, my BH and I are more stable and loving than ever before, thanks to MB) and a stay-at-home mom to toss her back and forth between daycares and living arrangments. Poor BH not only has to find out his firstborn isn't his, but now he may have to share her 50/50. My heart breaks daily over what I've done to him.
How did you get through this, Gack?
The court outcome looks dismal. OM is pretty much guaranteed rights.
What makes you say this, wh? Has the court ordered a DNA test?
The court outcome looks dismal. OM is pretty much guaranteed rights.
What makes you say this, wh? Has the court ordered a DNA test?
One would have to assume that they are close to ALLOWING the DNA test to proceed.
How did you get through this, Gack?
Well, first off. Our family and most close friends know the true genetic origin of OC, and that's the way they look at it. This was not my decision, my WW told them before she returned home as justification to stay with OM. It has not affected my relationship with anyone in any way. And if it did, I would not want that person in my life anyway.
My state has laws that protect both the marriage and OC from OM, and the BS from OM and WW. OM has no rights unless one of us legally gives them to him. So once WW started clearing the fog, it was decided that OM would be excluded from OC's life for our and her own good.
This is a good thing, I would not be able to handle OM's continued interference in our lives, resentment would build, and our recovery would fail.
Poor BH not only has to find out his firstborn isn't his, but now he may have to share her 50/50. My heart breaks daily over what I've done to him.
OC is also "My" first and only child.
The court outcome looks dismal. OM is pretty much guaranteed rights.
Why?
What evidence does OM have that OC is his?
Has there been a DNA test ordered?
How much confidence do you have in your lawyer?
One would have to assume that they are close to ALLOWING the DNA test to proceed.
faithy,
That puzzles me still. How can anybody know what a court is close to allowing?
I know I'm foreign
but surely it's the same with you. The two sides make their case while the judge listens. He or she then goes away and comes back with a judgement. Until that judgement is issued, nobody knows what the outcome will be.
OM's counsel might have made a stinger of a case. He might have made want and her H feel completely defeated and that there was no hope, yet until a judgement is issued they do not know the outcome.
No legal test has been administered, but the courts are most likely going to order one. We're so tired of fighting--and spending money--that my BH and I feel like it's about time to throw in the towel. My confidence in my attny has dwindled as the exhaustion has set in.
I wish I lived in your state, Gack!
Sugar, previous case law gives a pretty good idea of how the outcome will be determined. And the laws in my state are set up to support biology more than marriage. Of course, we could spend thousands upon thousands more dollars and potentially win our case in a supreme court, but we're so burned out and our financial demise won't be any better of an outcome for us or our marriage.
I appreciate the sentiment, though.
So anyone in your state can just go to the courthouse and file a claim of being someone else's father, with no proof, and they will start a court case over it?
Wow!
I think it is time to have a stern talk with your lawyer. If he doesn't sound positive about the outcome, I'd start interviewing other lawyers.
That's exactly how my state does things. Ridiculous, isn't it, that any Joe Shmoe can decide to file a paternity suit for no reason and they'll hear the case...even without a mutual ack of sex!
I'm on lawyer number 3, and this last lawyer actually has previously been responsible for changing laws. He seems passionate about my case and wants to use this to change laws, but it will end up being a media circus and cost me everything and then some, and most likely take years. While it's tempting, we would need major financial support. We're at the point where we have no fight left in us.
First of all, your husband is a remarkable person. Not many men, including myself would EVER raise another persons child through infidelity. Consider yourself very lucky. Now he has to deal with not only sharing YOU with this OM, but the child also. I'm not a religious person, but this poor guy is the epitome of a true Christian.
wanthealing,
is there any way we could talk privately about our OC situations?
as a father of 3 kids the 2 youngest are not mine (result of my wifes affair) i do know that me personally just cant turn my feelings off about my kids had i known before the 2 youngest were born i cant say for sure what my feelings would be,
all i know is that i love them and dont want to be without them.
if the kids werent involved and my wife had the affair more than likely i would have filed for D and ran for the hills.
hang in there your child needs you to be strong they cant stand up or defend themselves thats what us parents are for.