Two weeks ago tonight I confronted my WS with the fact that I knew she was having an affair. I did not find this site until a day or two later (did not get to the forum until a day or two ago), so I handled things the best I knew how. First, some background. My WS and I are coming up on our 15th anniversary this year. We have three children, and have only ever had the normal difficulties in our marriage. She met the OP 4 years ago, and I never had a problem with their friendship until recently. She knows him through work, and he lives in a different state. Last summer, she started traveling a lot (monthly for 4-6 days each) with work. I always knew where she was and if he was there as well (minus one occasion). I know my WS very well, and I started picking up subtle changes in her behavior shortly after this traveling started. I discovered a few things along the way that I found suspicious, but she always had a plausible excuse for whatever it was.

Two weeks ago, she started a two-week class with work, about an hour away from our home. They put her up in a hotel because of the long days required and the long commute. The day after she left, I went to the hotel, presented my ID and got a key to my wife�s room. There, I planted a listening device. The following day, I went back and had all of the evidence I needed. Turns out, he was at the same course and they had adjoining rooms, how nice. During the day she kept the adjoining doors closed. That night, when I entered the room, they were open. I waited for them to return, and closed him in his room while I confronted her. Of course she denied all, but that only lasted until presented with the evidence. She then told me everything.

It started 5 months ago as an EA and only recently turned into a PA. A PA that, up to that point, had not been consummated due to his inability to perform (the only reason this matters to me will follow shortly). She gave me all the classic reasons for the A. She said the marriage was most important, but she was confused and she obviously had deep feelings for the OP. She came home that night, but declined to withdraw from the course. They both changed rooms the next day. Over the next few days, we talked often, I saw her once, and she told me about any contact that she had with the OP. On D-day + 3, she allowed him into her room, after saying goodnight to me on the phone, and he managed to overcome his previous �short� comings. This fact hit me harder than the initial discovery.

In the 10 days since then, WS has agreed to NC, and she has communicated this to the OP. She has contacted a counselor and set up an initial appointment for herself, with a joint appointment to follow. The OP had already been looking for a transfer before the confrontation, but until he transfers, she will have to have occasional telephone contact with him. They had their next three trips lined up over the next five months, but they have agreed to alternate who goes on which trip. We have both been reading the steps on MB on overcoming this, and I believe she is committed to working things out.

Onto exposure. I exposed to both our parents. She told some of her close friends and her sister. It gets tricky after that. They are both in the military. If it got out at their WP�s, it would put an end to both of their 20-year careers. In his case, it would most likely land him in military prison due to the fact that he exploited his position to arrange certain trips for himself, under false pretense, just to coincide with her trips. Also due to the fact that he is in a position above her and has power and influence in the direction her career goes. If it were exposed to the OP�s friends or the OPS, it would more than likely work its way into the WP and come back on my WS.

I have read that threats are no good, and it�s better just to expose, but in this case I was thinking it better to contact him and present him with the fact that I have overwhelming evidence. I�d ask him to respect her whishes and end all contact. What do you think of this idea? Also, should it not bother me so much that she slept with him 3 days after the initial confrontation? She says she was still confused at that point, tired of crying all of the time, and gave in to a moment of weakness. I almost walked away from our marriage when I found this out, and she can�t understand how that night (and next afternoon) hurt me so much more than the five-month EA/PA.

In my opinion, the last two weeks have gone just about as well as they could go. Things have been overly civil between us and she has been stricken with grief over what she has done to our family. She has never blamed me for this happening, although I know it was because her emotional needs were not being met.

Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted to get all of the facts out there. I look forward to any and all help that all of you can provide.

JohnW,

How old are your children? I have a lot of thoughts on this but I suspect your W is still lying, most likely to herself. It is not unusual for the WS to not see the damage they have done to the marriage.

I take it from your post that you are set on saving this marriage is that right? How about your W? Given her "confusion" does she really think she wants to be married to you.

I am exmilitary, my father was career. I have a very hard point of view about all of this so take what I say with the knowledge of my bias. People in the military are entrusted with weaponary, the lives of other people, and the responsibility to do hard difficult things when called upon. It takes people of great integrity to do this. Frankly, neither your W nor her OM raise to the level of trust I would expect. He has misused tax payer money for trips that were not required so that he could carry on the affair.

The military should know what sort of man they have put in a position of authority.

As for his "short comings", I have some doubts about that given the "timing" of his cure. I suspect it has been physical longer than your W has admitted.

The issue is you need openness and honesty in your marriage. If you get it, can you handle it? I am not encouraging you to run away from what you fear you might hear, heck you have already heard and seen the worst. But, do your best to get yourself on as sound an emotional footing as you can.

One way to do this is to develop a plan to recover your marriage. You will get many good ideas if you start reading Harley's four rules for a good marriage, his articles on love busters, and finally the articles on needs. You need more intel, but you need a plan for this marriage to really recover.

I am sure many others will be posting to you tomorrow so hang in there. The folks here will help you as best they can.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
Thanks for the response. The children are 11, 8 & 3. My WS does indeed see the damage she has done. From the start, her only excuse has been that it was a selfish act and she continued with it as an escape from reality. As I said, she has not yet leveled any blame on me. From our conversations, I take her confusion as this; it was an A that she thought would never be found out. She thought it would end on her terms. Her world was turned upside down when she walked into her hotel room and found me there. She had a love for the OP and she didn't know what to make out of it. All in all, it took her 4 days to dedicate herself to reconciling.

As to the "short" comings; the fact that they had not consummated the relationship prior to D-day is moot. The intent was there. The attempt was there. I believe her reconstruction of the events. She recounted every trip in the last five months, and her story of what happened each night has stayed the same. Also, the recording from two weeks ago clearly places them in bed together attempting to have sex. She never heard the recording, but from my account, she knows I know about specific conversations they had. She thinks I heard everything that was said while they were in bed. She has commented that, if I listen, I will hear them discuss his "short" comings at the end of their encounter. I cannot make that part out. Also, I did a semen test on her panties that I took the day of the confrontation. It came back negative. The panties I tested the next week were positive.

As far as openness and honesty, my WS has not given much voluntary, but when presented with a direct question, I believe she is telling the truth. She has given me a lot of information that has incriminated the two of them. Included in this info, are the facts that would land him in jail. I would have had no idea if she had not provided the information. She has also willingly given up any secret means of communication that they have used. I ask hard questions, and I have gotten a lot of dirty details. I can handle the truth. I want the truth.

I have been reading everything on MB that I can to guide me through this. I have not bought SAA because I believe we can get through this with the insight we both have gained from our readings here. I have bought Fall In Love, Stay In Love, because we both recognize the need to be the best spouse possible for each other.

I appreciate your comments on the military aspect of things, but at this point, I am not willing to throw away the 20 years she has invested in this career.

Thanks for your comments, I look forward to hearing more.

JohnW

JohnW, I don't believe that your WW may be in that much trouble regarding the military unless the OM is married. Is he? If not and he is in a position of authority over her he is in some deep doodoo if you press the issue. Also, I would strongly suggest you get a copy of SAA.

If you've been reading these boards I'm sure you've noticed how strongly the vets here feel about exposure. It needs to happen at work and if the OM is married his BS needs to be told. I can understand your position on your WWs career but really...when it comes right down to it...what's more important? Her career or you and her's marriage.

L4S

L4S, he is married. They are both at a very high rank in the military. She just received a job that gets her to the rank she wants to take into retirement. It starts in two weeks. I do believe that it would surely put an end to her career. As I've said, she has actively sought out information on how best to recover from this. She mentioned on the phone this morning that maybe she should just walk away from the job, because it will be difficult to maintain strict NC. In addition to having business calls to each other, they also need to contact each other to deconflict any trips away from home.

Yes, the marriage is definitely more important than the career. My feeling is that if I put an end to it, it will surely be a road block down our road to recovery. Don't get me wrong, I would most definitely go nuclear if I thought for a second that she would stray again.

Has she written a NC letter to OM that you reveiwed and sent yourself? What other ACTIONS has she taken to ensure NC? IMO this will be very difficult for you if NC is not verified and extraordinary precautions (EPs) are not put in place and waiting for the next time to expose will only nearly guantee a next time.

You said marriage is definitely more important. Are those her words also? Get a copy of SAA. Will you do that? There is much in there that can help your situation that these boards cannot fully cover.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, my friend. I am sorry this has happened to you and glad you are here.

What will happen if you follow through on the plan above, is the OM and your WW will go further underground and your marriage will not recover. What you are doing here is protecting them from the consequences of the affair at the expense of your marriage. The affair will not end until the OM's wife and their commanders are told about the affair.

Just think, the only way you would ever know if they have trips planned together again is if she tells you. You would be relying on the word of a liar and will live in unmitigated hell wondering each and every day.

But if you report the affair to their commanders and to the OM's wife, you will have all those extra eyes watching and can ensure they don't meet again.


You are protecting the guilty party instead of your marriage, your family and the US taxpayer? Can I ask why you protect him, the guilty party, and not the innocent parties? Can I ask whose side you are on, Sir?

This might be one solution, but still the OM's wife will have to be notified so she can protect herself from the OM and your wife.

Affairs thrive and grow on secrecy, John, and this is a new affair. It can be killed dead if you expose it now. Pass up this opportunity and you are likely facing a long term affair. If you help the lovers keep their secret and protect them from any consequences, you are increasing the risk the affair will resume and preventing recovery of your marriage.


The biggest roadblock to your recovery is her career, the affair and your protection of same. Ending her career will not be a roadblock, it IS the roadblock. So is your secrecy.

Here is a radio clip where Dr Harley explains to a BS, whose wayward wife was leaving him because her workplace affair did not end after 2 years, that it is hard to save a marriage when you become an enabler. Please listen to this clip: click here


here

In the radio clip, please note that it was Ron's [BS] failure to expose that led to his wife leaving him. Because he didn't expose the fog was never lifted and the affair RESUMED. This is why affairs don't die when they are kept secret. The fog never lifts so the affairee either resumes that affair or goes onto another affair.

The BEST thing that can happen is that the affair is exposed. This would kill the affair and inject a much needed dose of reality so this doesn't ever happen again. Protect them from the consequences of their actions and you hurt THEM. You increase the likelihood the affair will resume or another affair pursued.

Another thing to consider is that if they are held accountable for their actions by the military, would that be a bad thing or a good thing? If a criminal is forced to face legal penalties for his theft isn't that a good thing? Won't that teach him a much needed lesson that helps him become a better person in the future?

Why would you deprive the OM and your WW of one of the most valuable lessons they could ever receive? That only enables them to go out and do this all again.

If the OM and your W ruin their careers over their adultery, won't the cause be their own actions?

Agree with MelodyLane. I have yet to see a fully successful recovery here on MB where the other person's betrayed spouse was kept in the dark. She has just as much right to know the truth about her life as you do/did. We can help you with a plan that MAY provide the best chance that the OM's betrayed wife doesn't blow this up beyond her family and cause your wife to lose her position...but it's a chance you just have to take. Ideas like...have a personal meeting with the OM's Wife...give her no physical evidence of the affair (maybe you allow her to listen to the recording but don't give her a copy) that she can use to indict or charge your wife and encourage her to not take revenge against your wife's career as THAT would be hurting you and your family (not just your wife). Of course, you can't control OM's wife and that makes this a leap of faith....but fear alone is not a reason to keep the secret and deny OM's wife the right to make informed decisions about her life.

Keeping their secret makes you a co-conspirator against the OM's wife. It brings you into their yuckiness...not away from it. It makes YOU wrong...too. You've got enough problems so why add to it by enabling secrecy.

How would you like it if she did this to you?

Mr. Wondering

No one ever regrets doing the right thing.

Doing the right thing often results in better outcomes.

For example, OM's wife may make the OM retire and move far, far away.

Mr. W

The best thing that could happen to the affairees is that they lose their jobs over this. That would help them learn their lesson so they don't make this mistake again.

That being said, I can't think if a single military exposure where the affairees lost their jobs. Rather they were reprimanded, separated and ORDERED by the commander to never see the affair partner again. It effectively broke up the affair while salvaging their careers and alerted the command to their destructive behavior.

One of the biggest issues I have here is that we have such loose cannons in our military using our tax dollars to carry on like this. People like this need to be controlled and/or removed, NOT PROTECTED. They are loose cannons who should not be in charge of anything.

People like this need to have jobs such as the door greeter at Walmart where they can't harm others. They are not fit to hold military positions.

John, tell his superiors the truth with evidence. Tell his wife right now, dont delay. Tell your wife's family members. Your family members... Also tell your kids what happened... She is in the fog still john.

Its better that om get his career ruined than you get your marriage ruined.

I honestly cant say your wife is telling the truth on his inability to perform... My wife said the same thing. Its a lie! Your wife is a liar and can't be trusted. Install a keylogger and get spyware for her phone.

John,
My ex-wife had 16 years in the Navy and was a cryptology/intelligence CPO with TS/SCI clearance when she started sleeping with her coworker (who worked beneath her). I was advised to expose the affair to the chain of command but I did not for the exact same reasons that you are citing. I claimed it would end her career and she was fully committed to rebuilding the marriage. And she was fully committed to the marriage...for about 12 months until she deployed to kuwait and started sleeping with a new coworker. By not exposing the first time, I protected her from the consequences of her actions and she never really learned about protecting the marriage.

Listen to your wife's words. She didn't have any real problems with the marriage and thought you would never find out about this. If you protect her now, I can practically guarantee you that she will eventually do it again. Besides, there is also the moral issue of informing the other man's spouse about the damage inflicting on her by your wife. If she had found out, would you not have wanted her to tell you? So if you don't tell her, you are a hypocrite.

Expose the affair and let the military do what they must. I think that they will not end your wife's career over this. If she is as high ranking as you say, she likely has a congressional appointment to her rank, which are generally not taken away. And MelodyLane said it very well. To not expose, you are protecting a criminal at the expense of the victim and the taxpayers.

I hope you choose the right thing to do.

L4S, I did not see her NC demand. She told me what it said, but it's just her word. I do believe it. She has also told me that prior to her giving the NC, he offered ways for them to stay in touch (phone cards, calls at work) that would be kept secret. She declined. I will go get SAA today. If I can't find it at a bookstore, I will download it from Amazon.

Melody, I listened to the clip. I guess the problem I have is this; the advice I'm receiving seems to say that there is only one way to handle an affair and you must use 100% of that method or you're doomed. In the clip, the caller has a wife that is in an ongoing affair that she refuses to leave. The BS is enabling the A by not taking the steps necessary to end it. From the reading I've done so far, exposure, plan A and plan B are all means to get the WS to come back to the marriage. Who's to say that the exposure we've had already has not accomplished this? Maybe it's just my wishful thinking, but I do think that she was brought back to reality.

I read through the board and I see all of these stories of how hard it is to get your WS back to the marriage. All indications, thus far, say that she knows what she did was wrong, she never wants it to happen again, and our marriage and family are the most important things to her. People seem to think that a marriage can overcome anything. In some cases, that's true. We obviously had troubles in our marriage, or I would not be here today. In working on our problems, I have to ensure that we are both happy and fulfilled in life, or I might find myself back here in a couple of years explaining D-day #2. If her career is to end, I want it to be by her choice, not because I blew it out of the water. I don't feel that the A was my fault, but I do feel that it's my job to see that it doesn't happen again.


I�m sure you�ve read Harley�s opinion on affairs. That we are all wired for them, and are but a step away from having one. The fact that they are in the military makes them no different. My WS is still a human being and she struggles with the same dilemmas as everyone else. Everyone thinks the military should be held to a higher standard. It�s hard to hold over 1.5 million Americans to a higher standard.


I�ve seen several! We had one at my base, just this past year. In many cases the member is allowed to stay in the military, but they never overcome the damage done to their career. They are often sent to court martial, and the outcome of that is usually a reduction in rank and a file that follows them around and prevents them from ever recovering.

I�ll write more after I get something to eat. Thanks for all the advice.
John

It really doesn't matter. It didn't make it less hurtful to know they weren't successful. I am 100% confident that what I heard on the recording was not sex. My evidence and her story line up. I also know that they did indeed have sex twice after the confrontation. She has provided those details. That's the part that bothers me the most.

John, ask her to write a no contact letter anyway. Waywards lie and I know you don't want to think of your WW as being capable of that. I guarantee most BS felt that way during a false recovery.

What is your plan to recover your marraige while WW and OM still work together? Chances are you'll find that pretty difficult to answer.

Absolutely! And to make sure that they are held to a higher standard there is the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice), this is extra-constitutional law that is applicable to the Armed Services.

The OM and your WS took an oath to uphold the Constitution. By breaking their vows to marriage they are breaking their oaths they took.

L4S, I'll get her to do the letter. It makes sense. I know full well she is capable of still lying to me. One of my favorite sayings is "Trust, but verify". I don't yet trust her, so that'll make verification twice as important.

Some more background on her job. She is in the reserves, about ready to retire. She is about to be promoted to E-9, the highest enlisted rank. It's a part time job, but it culminates a lifetime career. Her job is a big part of who she is, and she's very good at it. As far as them working together, they are geographically separated. They would not have to see each other when she works. As I've said, there would be phone and email contact between them. He is currently looking for a job that would not necessitate them being in contact. He was already searching prior to the discovery of the A. I know because she has been friends with him for 4 years, and I've always known where he was, and what plans he had for the future.

John, why are you okay with this?

Just answer that. Why?

Exactly.

Affairs within the military are quite common. Their superiors will want to help you break the two affair partners up. Permanently.

Truthfully, it was my idea as a temporary solution until their careers diverged.

Understood. But why are you okay with it?

I'm speaking from my experiences in the military, not from any notions I have about the subject.

I'm not fully ok with it. Neither is she. We are trying to come up with a solution. She may just decide to walk away from the job and cut her losses.

JohnW,

I have not read further than this statement by you John if her career ends it WILL be by her choice. Please Oh! Please don't tell me that she does not know about the regs on having affairs. If she is high ranking, then she KNOWS about those regs and she and OM have chosen to violate them. That was HER CHOICE AND HIS CHOICE. If her career were to end over this, and I doubt that it would, then it was by HER choice.

You frankly have no say in whether her career ends or it does not. You as a citizen have the responsibility to make sure taxpayer fraud is reported. You as a human being have a responsibility to OM's W to let her know what you know. She is being exposed to the risk of STD's, if not by your W, then by some other woman he has/is or will run with in the future.

JohnW, I suspect you think this is about revenge. It is not. It is about protecting your family. I suspect that if she were to renew the affair, or have another one, the marriage is over and your family torn apart. How will you feel if you could have prevented that.

As an earlier poster mentioned, she did it because she WANTED to and figured she would NOT get caught. She will have other opportunities given her career, are you going to spend your life checking? You will until and unless some hard realities are faced. Her superiors will notify her that she must end it and not do it again. If she does it again, she is gone. Now, she is on notice, not by you, but by her superiors. She has a reason to worry when she travels and you cannot check on her. Her vows don't seem to mean much to her, perhaps her career will.

Young man, you need to protect your family. If you have better ways to do it, then please enlighten us. No matter what you decide it will only affect: you, your children, your W, OM's W, and her children. As for us here? Nope it won't affect us other than we hate to see the pattern continued, and believe me you are in a very (sadly) familiar pattern.

Keep talking and thinking but a very minimum requirement is that OM's W know of the affair, and that will probably not protect you from another affair with someone else.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

John,

Former military here. You MUST tell OM's wife. It's necessary to enforce no contact.

Look, I know you are giving your WW the benefit of the doubt because you want to believe her more than anything. But wayward wives lie. They lie in a big way and do it soooo well.

She is lying. It's what waywards do.

Do as you wish, but I predict you'll be back here in a few months telling us all we were right and that you should have exposed to their superiors AND exposed to OM's wife.

Why do I say that? Because we've seen it so often that it's predictable. A man in your situation doesn't listen, feels he knows best, feels he knows his WW better than we do, and then gets burned by not exposing.

We've seen this movie a dozen times.

At a minimum, absolute 100% minimum, you MUST expose to OM's wife.

Wow can I just say one thing? You are fogged BS.

By not telling the OMW you are doing exactly this....

Lets say you decide to stay in MB and 10 years down the road you hear a sad story where a BW comes on here to post her story, her story is this....

Her husband has been cheating on her for 11 years he is in the military, she found out that he had 6 different woman he has slept with, an now the result of that is her and her baby has HIV. Then you read her saying "I wished that someone had told me about my cheating husband, I could have saved my life and my baby."

Is that the guilt you want to live with??

IS IT!!??

You say all this stuff how your stitch is different..well guess what? IT'S NOT!!

So get your balls back form your wife and expose this affair to there employee and save that POOR woman from more pain.

P.S that story is true by the way...I did not make that up! I read it!

Is OM an officer? I believe you said earlier that she worked for him.

Your WW is about to retire and be promoted to E-9 soon? Is that right? If she's hanging on for an E-9 retirement she would need to be committed for another three years after promotion. Do you realize that? Retiring earlier than that would be at the E-8 rate.

You missed the point of the clip. The fact that the man hid his wife's affair [as you are doing] resulted in an ongoing affair. Just like you, he didn't expose the affair so it didn't end. The affair became more entrenched and the WW has now left her H. That was a result of his keeping the affair a secret just like you are doing; enabling the affair.

By helping them keep their secret from their employer and your wife's other victim, the OMW, you are enabling the affair. As Dr Harley said, "it is very hard to save a marriage when you become an enabler."

I am to say that the exposure you have done will not end the affair, thats who. And the reason? It has not been exposed to the 2 targets who have the most influence: the workplace and the OMW. Your "exposure" is meaningless and ineffective - it won't stop the affair. It is just window dressing. You even admit they will still be in touch via email and phone, so you can't claim the affair is over. It is not.

All that has happened here is the equivalence of the alcoholic changing the name of his drinks to "workplace drinks" and imagining he will sober up. He will not. Nor will your wife sober up as long as she is still in touch with her boyfriend. She will be triggered with every contact and soon enough, physical contact will resume.

You are essentially protecting them from the consequences of the affair and thereby protecting the FOG. And no, she was not brought back to reality, I assure you. That is your wishful thinking. As long as her affair is protected at work and protected from discovery by her other victim, she will remain in the fog.

You are protecting the OM and the affair with your strategy. For absolutely no other rationale than you want to protect your wife's career at all cost. That makes no sense.

It is also mean and reckless to not inform the OMW. She cannot protect herself and her children from your wife and her H if she doesn't know.


If her career ends, it will be over her adultery. She doesn't get a choice about that. That choice should be in the hands of the military, not your foggy wife. She truly forfeited her right to make a choice when she chose to commit adultery on the job. She is not qualified or able to use good judgement in this situation.


I�m sure you�ve read Harley�s opinion on affairs. That we are all wired for them, and are but a step away from having one. The fact that they are in the military makes them no different. My WS is still a human being and she struggles with the same dilemmas as everyone else. Everyone thinks the military should be held to a higher standard. It�s hard to hold over 1.5 million Americans to a higher standard.[/quote]

Yes, of course she should be held to a higher standard. She is invested with more responsibility than other Americans therefore she has a higher standard. The fact that we are "all wired for an affair" does not negate anything I said or mean she is fit for that job. Your wife is a loose cannon who is unfit for her position.

Many, many people lose their jobs as a result of affairs, your wife is no different. Pastors, teachers, managers, etc, lose their jobs. People that abuse their positions should lose their jobs. In my company, workplace affairs are grounds for automatic termination. We don't want to employ cheaters.They are loose cannons. Do you think our investors CARE if "we are all wired for an affair?" No, they don't. They want responsible people who behave professionally in the workplace.

Your wife is not entitled to her job, John and her employer, the US government is the only one qualified to determine if she is fit for employment. She is not too special to suffer the consequences of her reckless behavior. You harm HER by helping her hide this from her employers.


And that is a good thing. If your wife and the OM lose their careers over their bad behavior, that would be a blessing, not a curse. Consequences are good, not bad. Everyone would benefit if your wife and the OM lost their careers as a result of their reckless behavior. The military would benefit, your marriage would benefit, your wife would benefit personally.

What is more important? For your wife to learn to her lesson, save her marriage and become a better person or her career? I would assert it is the former..

I'm sorry but this point just makes me sick every time. Not only do they have the affair but then they rut with no protection. Adult people doing the stupidest most dangerous things. Probably the hardest thing for me to get over.

John,
I just wanted to reiterate something. After I confronted my E-7 wife about her first affair, she was beside herself with guilt, remorse, and shame. She literally spent several days running to the bathroom and throwing up. She told me that she felt like committing suicide for what she had done and thanked me daily for not giving up on her. Given the strength of her reaction and renewed dedication to the marriage, I rejected all advice to expose to her chain of command. But none of that reaction lasted once she deployed and had male servicemembers hitting on her again.

She just assumed I would never find out about the second affair or just assumed there would be no consequences in case I did find out. She was actually trying to convince me that we should adopt a child WHILE she was screwing this OM. I wondered for a long time whether I could have saved it had I exposed after the first affair.

Regardless of whether or not you expose to the chain of command, do you believe the OMW has no right to know the injustice committed against her by your WW? Or as a human being are you obligated to tell her?

I had two EA's when the first one happened and wheels found out I was doing exactly what your wife is doing, guess how long it lasted till I found another EA? TWO MONTHS!!!!

If you do not fully expose then you will be right back with 2dday.

p.s I feel that the OMW is OBLIGATED to know the truth.

So you are saying, you busted her, she admitted the affair, and then she went ahead and had sex with him anyway. The reason you didn't expose in the first place is the whole reason they were able to "consummate" their affair, and the reason the affair will be allowed to continue instead of being struck a death blow. Affairs are addictions and if she were able to end it on her own, she would have never had sex with him. Sure it may die down for a while, but unless you expose it, it will always be ready to reignite. Remember, CONSEQUENCES are what gets people to change their behavior. If there was no consequence to her affair, she is more likely to continue her behavior.

I have not heard one story on here where exposure ruined someone's marriage. WSs ALWAYS get over it. Think of it this way, if you can get over her screwing another man, she can get over you exposing it. It will blow over. The reason you won't do it is because of fear. Well, fear is what is going to keep this affair alive.

And honestly, I am usually quite disappointed with the military's handling of affairs anyway. Likely, nothing will come of it other than being given a cease and decist order. It usually comes with no further consequences to their careers. And what's more important anyway, her career, or your family?

Sack up, get over your fears, and put an end to this. Contact OM's wife and OM's and WW's COs. This will be over and you won't have to worry about it anymore.

This is precisely why your wife wouldn't lose her career. Given that she is an E9 it won't matter about promotion becaue she can't go any higher. The worst they would probably do to her is make her retire, but I doubt that given the supervisor/subordinate situation. Kinda makes me wonder how many other women of lower rank the guy is screwing.

Also makes me wonder why you are so afraid to do anything about him. This guy could have cost you a lot of money and time with your children and you do nothing? If it were me, I would ensure that he was courtmartialed for fraternization and lose his rank and hopefully be forced to retire at a lower grade.

You don't do this and your wife will see that there was practically no consequence to her affair, that you basically rolled over, perhaps you should read the carrot and the stick of Plan A. You don't take action and you'll be setting the stage for an affair in the future.

BTW, just like some of the other posters, I am former military.

I still go back to priority number one being to tell the OM's wife and put the workplace exposure on her.

That leaves room for a couple best case scenario's...

1. OM's wife makes OM retire/quit leaving John's wife free to finish out her career

2. OM's wife exposes at the workplace and some or a lot of crap hits the fan...NONE OF WHICH can be blamed on John. Exposing to OM's wife is the moral and ethical thing to do. He HAD TO expose to her, therefore any workplace exposure that results from that isn't John's "fault"...it's OM's wife's "fault".

3. Buys him some time until he's progressed to the point of doing workplace exposure himself or his wife, in recovery, decides she wants to retire/quit on her own. Their recovery will be enhanced by the fact his wife CHOOSES her consequences and takes them like a good soldier for the benefit of the marriage (just compensation) versus having consequences imposed upon her by her husband.

Just some thoughts...not necessarily right.

Mr. W

JohnW, re: your not telling the OM's CO or OM's wife,

1) Not telling the CO is a mistake. Have you not read, and do you not understand, about the addictive nature of affairs? As long as they're in contact, they're still getting their "hits" of each other's attention, and so withdrawal can't begin, and so neither can recovery of your marriage. The CO is in best position to see that they have no contact.

I know about affairs, John. See, I had one. Tried to break it off while it was still "only" an emotional affair. But I continued to see & talk with OW, and guess what? It resumed in short order, and didn't finally end until our affair got found out.

But I guess you're feeling lucky, and so you're gonna allow them to remain in contact. I hope your luck has changed from the luck that got you to where your wife has been boinking her superior officer. I guess you hope so, too. Just keep in mind that "hope" isn't much of a plan, though.

2) Not telling OM's wife is also a mistake. The OM's wife's eyes & ears are prospectively your very best ally in the whole world, bar none, in scrutinizing the affairees' actions to help make sure that the affair ends. But you don't want to tell her... why? Because you're afraid it will rebound and damage your wife's career? So, you'd rather risk the marriage to protect the career, than risk the career to protect the marriage. Isn't that kind of bassackwards?

3) Not telling OM's wife also deprives her of a chance to fix her marriage. But hey, she's no concern of yours. You're not gonna let some stranger's problems stand in the way of your wife's career, right?

Good luck, pal.

If I didn't tell my wife's lover's wife... She would probably still see him (maybe just to talk or provide him instruction to be faithful, etc--but it would of turned back into an affair).

John,

My H and I are both retired Army Colonels. My H was on track to be a general officer when I discovered his affair with an E-7 in the same unit. We are currently recovering our marriage by applying MB principles. I found out about MB after reading "Surviving an Affair" about 3 weeks post D-day.

One thing we have found out in the last nearly 3 years is that deviation from the MB basic concepts does not serve us well and slows our marital recovery. Our marriage continues to improve and is becoming the one we both want it to be.


Regarding exposure: I exposed the affair to OWH within the first 2 hours of finding out about it. He was not surprised. The OW's previous affair partner was the two star commander of the same unit. OWH found out about that affair, but did not expose because both his wife and the general begged him not to. A few months later, OW was involved with my H, first in an EA and then PA. Exposure to OWH was beneficial because it was another set of eyes on OW and my H. After many rumors in the workplace (You can bet there are rumors about your wife and her OM. People are not dumb.) and post D-day and three weeks, my H self-reported to his commander. The command initiated a 15-6 and my H gave a sworn statement admitting to the affair. Other than this statement, there was no concrete evidence to punish with H or OW. OW asked H to retract his statement. H refused. It this point, it was important for him to attempt to regain his INTEGRITY. (I do not know what service your wife is, but if she has had a long-term career in any branch, this should be a concept that she is SUPPOSED to possess). The command punished my H and OW by taking 1/2 month's pay for 2 months, letter of reprimand, and H was dis-enrolled from an advanced school. My H was not removed from his job. However, he knew he was ineffective in his job and he applied for retirement and left the work site 3 months after d-day. OW continues to work in same place. However, because the affair was exposed, I feel relieved that other people have fair warning that she is a danger to their marriage.

I commanded Army units my last seven years on active duty. During this time, I saw few instances of severe punishment for an affair. BUT, even if there is no punishment, the command can separate the affair partners and order no contact between them. Currently, your wife has a very convenient excuse to stay in contact with her affair partner. There is no way you can recover your marriage if they stay in contact. Her affair will just continue, even if they are not in physical contact.

Bottom line:
1. Expose affair to other man's wife and others who can exert pressure to end the affair.
2. Expose the affair to the command. Let the command proceed with whatever kind of action they wish to persue.
3. Ask your wife to hand-write a no contact letter that you will approve and mail. Her response to this requirement (not request) will be very telling. My H was very reluctant to do this and it should have been a monstrous red flag for me. I was, like you, convinced that he seemed dedicated to reconciling with me. What he really wanted was to have it all; me, his family and her on the side.

There was a military wife on the radio show earlier this week. Dr. Harley said something along the lines of, "...like so many of those who are unfaithful, when he (husband in this case) is not being held accountable, he strays. Nothing works as well as exposure and extraordinary precautions to make infidelity humiliating and difficult to arrange. Covering up an affair only makes another affair more likely."

If you want to read a long history my and H's marriage, look on the "Casualties of War" thread and "Recovery - Take Two".

I hope things work out for you. You have been forced to take a ticket on the rollercoaster ride that no one wants to be on.

AM

John, You asked for help and you are getting great advice from many ex military and now there is only silence.

I hope that you are at least reading this advice even if you are not responding. Many of these good people are investing their time and experience to help. No one is attacking you and everyone truly wants to give you the tools to save your M.

Please keep your mind open.

Awesome post, Armymama!

John,

How you doing buddy? Whats going on in your life? You haven't been talking to us for a bit here.

Eric

Thanks for all the words of advice and encouragement. I'm not ignoring the advice or choosing not to deal with it, I'm just trying to come up with a plan that best suites my concerns and needs. The problem I'm having is the cookie cutter approach to this. That all WSs are the same and need to be dealt with in the same exact way. My WS starts IC today. I have been reading SAA and I have an appointment with Dr. Harley on Monday.

On telling the OM wife; I know it's the right thing to do. I've known it from the start, and I intend on doing it. Mr Wondering, you hit the nail on the head with the three possible outcomes of telling her. It's pretty much what I came up with.

On workplace exposure; I'm not there, yet. My WS starts her new job on Monday. She has to go to school for the promotion shortly there after. Nothing there is guaranteed right now. Not that it will ever be. It's not just about protecting her, it's about protecting my family. I can't say that things will work out and we'll stay together. If we split, I need her to be able to provide. A weak reason? Sure, but it's something I've considered.

From the reading I've done, so far, it's pretty clear that if you rebuild the M and prevent the mistakes that lead to the A in the first place, you can squash the chance of it happening again.

I haven't been on here much because I'm traveling. This weekend we're going away for my son's birthday, so I won't be on at all (maybe a bit on Sat). I'll check back in after my appointment with Dr. Harley.

Thanks,
John

Please do, John. Let us know what he thinks.

The OM is starting a new job in a few months that will not require any contact with my WS. This was the only reason for me allowing her to stay in a job that required any contact at all. I knew a new job was right around the corner.

And that is a few months of opportunity that can make all the difference in your marriage. This misses the point about the dangers of keeping her affair a secret. Keeping it secret for her and the OM only fuels the fantasy, which keeps the feelings alive.

Exactly,

It's most likely they would be asked to retire. I can see the conversation with the general now. You messed up, you can't be trusted.

Choose one of the following, submit your retirement packet, summary judgment or a courts martial, and as your commanding officer, I strongly recommend the retirement option.

If they both have 20+ years of good service, I expect options similar to these will be placed on the table.

Uh-huh. Okay. Hang on to that Plan of Hope. We've got another poster on here right now who's hanging onto that very same Plan. The OM was supposed to be off the job at the end of December. He's still there. The poster's wife is resisting recovery attempts and is pining for OM right now. Unless they've gone ahead and resumed the affair, of course. In that case she isn't pining for him anymore, she's got him back.

We don't know for sure because the poster hasn't checked back in with us.

John,

I repeat Dr. Harley's comments from earlier this week.

There was a military wife on the radio show earlier this week. Dr. Harley said something along the lines of, "...like so many of those who are unfaithful, when he (husband in this case) is not being held accountable, he strays. Nothing works as well as exposure and extraordinary precautions to make infidelity humiliating and difficult to arrange. Covering up an affair only makes another affair more likely."

NOTHING works as well as exposure and extraordinary precautions.

It is good to hear that you have an appointment with Dr. Harley Monday. A number of military affairs have been highlighted recently. Yesterday's radio show also had a segment on military marriages.

AM

PS. The more affairs you read about here, the more recognizable that they are all pretty similar. Nothing special in any of them. And the method to kill the affair and re-build the marriage may sound like a cookie cutter approach, but really isn't. It IS a structure or framework for a couple to address their specific needs and problems.

John,

One other comment. You can tell from reading my previous posts that our family took a significant hit financially. My husband was fined, messed up an excellent opportunity at a promotion, and retired earlier than he had planned. I don't grieve any of that. Our marriage is the most important thing in our lives. We live more simply. We have more time together. And we have enough. How much is enough? It is whatever we have.

Please think long about your lifestyle. Is the current lifestyle more important than an intact family with a mother and father who love each other?

AM

Again, cookie cutter.

That should tell you something, John.

John,

I guess you are the expert with all of this. Good luck with your individual approach and special situation.

AM

So said by the least objective, least experienced person on this thread. You are speaking to folks who have saved their marriages and know how it is done. You are the falling down drunk who comes to AA meetings and tells them their advice is "cookie cutter."

ok...................

OK, I need to clarify a previous post. The steps to ending an affair are very specific and very similar for most couples. They consist of exposure, extraordinary precautions and building a romantic love for the married couple. Maybe that sounds like a cookie cutter, but it has a proven track record for working when followed.

The MB program for creating a romantic loving marriage is a framework for couples. People have different emotional needs and the MB program is a method of identifying these needs and meeting them.

AM

And I agree with it all, to a point. The problem I have is everyone saying that unless you follow what worked for them, exactly to the letter, you are doomed and she will repeat. I haven't said that I know better or am better equipped to handle this than anyone else. I haven't said that I will not consider exposing the A at the workplace. I don't make decisions out of fear and intimidation. I won't let my WS bully me into going one way or the other, and I won't let anyone here either. There are other sources of information out there, and they do not take such a hard line approach. They don't say "you must follow this advice, or she will cheat again".

Oh, and it's Steve, not Dr. Harley I have the appointment with.

Again, thank you for all of the advice. I assure you, it's not falling on deaf ears.

Yes, we know of those "other sources of information". Why don't you ask those other sources how many marriages they have helped recover from adultery? How many of those marriages can they claim are now thriving? How many of those marriages have completely healed?

Glad to hear you're going to talk to Steve. Hopefully, you'll believe him. Be sure and tell him everything you've told us and ask him specifically about exposure.

Good luck.

John,

There are some very interesting videos about Dr. Harley's approach to ending infidelity and recovering a marriage on the Marriage 101 forum. The videos tell how he got into working with couples with troubled marriages and how he came up with some of his concepts. I bumped it to the top for you.

Dr. Harley uses a behavioral approach. He has tested his theories, has decades of experience and has worked with more than 5,000 couples. I was trained as a scientist and Dr. Harley's approach immediately resonated with me as practical and well-tested.

Regarding your other sources, I agree with Meggy. Check out their experience and success. See if the advice compares. There a plenty of counselors out there flying by the seat of their pants and in troubled marriages themselves.

When you talk to Steve, ask him about how well the program works with changes to major principles. From my experience, when my H and I took short cuts, it hurt our recovery. Dr. Harley addressed this on yesterday's radio program.

AM

Um, yeah, we know that, John. We know those other sites exist. We're here for a reason. This program WORKS.

You can go to the other sites and immerse yourself in their support, because that's ALL you're going to get - support. They'll support you while you're in anguish over the A, they'll support you when you go online to post about NC, they'll support you while you go through your divorce. They're reeeeallly good at support.

Is that what you're looking for? Support?

Hey John,
First of all let me say I'm sorry you have to be going through all this, the pain of a BS is a very painful place to be......
I can see you are a careful person, thinking all your options out from every angle.
I think you understand the fact that your marriage cannot heal as long as your wife is still in contact with her OM, that relationship on any level has to stop for life.
If it doesn't every time she sees him or hears his voice, she will be right back into the emotional connection she had with him.
John then you have to work on filling each others needs and making quality time for each other. You two have to be open and honest about anything and everything.
She must be totally transparent with you, she must give you all her passwords to any kind of communication devices she has............You will need to check on her .
As far as the OM's wife is concerned do you think it's fair to let her live her life not knowing what kind of man she is married to, doesn't she have the right to have all the facts so she can make the best decision for herself and her family.
Your wife will not like it but to bad she gave up that right when she crossed the line, she will get over it.........
My guess the OM is shaking in his boots thinking you will tell her...........
I think you need to think long and hard about what your plan will be, I might even go as far as seeing a lawyer seeing what your rights are, separate finances until things are better. Your wife needs to know that you will not accept this under any circumstances.......
When they train you to be an officer they make sure you know that you have to be honest and live your life with integrity otherwise there are consequences.....
No one can tell you which path to take but I can tell you from experience that the guidelines here and the plan the vets set out here work, my husband also had an affair with a co-worker, I exposed as well.......when the affair was out in the open it wasn't as much fun for them. I life was hell for a while, they still worked together for a few months, she finally left the work place.............my recovery really didn't start until that happened

John, I'll say it again:

Failing to expose the affair because you're putting the affairees' careers & reputations before the marriage is bass-ackwards as long as your main goal is to save the marriage.

And allowing them to stay in contact is bassackwards, as long as your goal is to securely end the affair.

I'd rather be hardline than bassackwards.

Remember, I had an affair. I tried to get out of it while staying in contact. I have some firsthand knowledge about that works & what doesn't. (As do these other folks who've been mostly on the other side of the equation.)

I hate infidelity. I hate what it does to people. You're suffering & what you're suffering isn't fair. You don't deserve it. Your wife (if/when her fog clears) will suffer too, and while she'll deserve it, that doesn't make it any easier. If your marriage tanks, your children will suffer.

I'm not getting a plugged nickel for spouting off here. I have to get on a plane for overseas in 8 hours, and I've got other stuff to do. I just don't want to see your suffering drawn out.

No one's saying there aren't other options. You can pick & choose the approaches that you're comfortable with and still maybe luck into a good outcome. You can play Russian roulette with 3 or 4 bullets in the cylinder & still win, if you're lucky.

Letting the affairees remain in contact, and minimizing exposure, is putting rounds into the cylinder. But go ahead, give it a spin, and pull the trigger. Your marriage might win. I hope that happens for you. But I'm not gonna water down my advice just because you're not comfortable with it. I'll not do you that disservice.

Hi John

you have to expose!

My WH had an A 6 years ago with my 'closest friend' after the first year I found out and he begged to keep her as just a friend. Begged me not to tell her H and the following 5 years were a living h**l as he openly took her and her daughter out for days, and were having what I thought was an EA.

I hated every minute of it but when I tried to end it he would get so distressed that I gave in again and again.

In Nov I found out that it was always a PA. I was devastated and immediately exposed to all her family. Her H was also wandering and has now left. Oddly we did the NC letter before I found this site but was happy we had done it.

We are trying to put things back together, how much easier it would have been if I had found this site 5 years ago, we might be recovered by now, instead I have to go back to the devastated place and build over.

If you don't want to be in this place, tell OMH at the very least.

Blessings

Hello all. Sorry to be so late on the promised update, but here it goes.

First, on exposing to the OMW, I've have said that I think it's the right thing to do, and I do plan on telling her. I'm trying to get her contact info now. It hasn't been easy. No FB and a very common name.

I had my first session with Steve on Monday. I ran down everything I've said on here, also pointed him here, and his approach is a little different. His opinion is that limited contact for work purposes, while not ideal, is permissible for now. He says this because it should be temporary (OM will be transferring soon).

As far as exposing at work; not right now. He likened it to dealing with a drug addict. You've got a tool bag full of all sorts of ways to get that addict to kick the habit. You use the tools you need, in escalating order, to get that addict into rehab. He said that since she seems willing to work on the marriage and doing what's necessary to recover, damaging her career would not be a helpful tool. Yes, if the marriage is recoverable, she'll get over the damage done, but you don't want to make the road too rough that she doesn't want to take the trip. He did say that it might become necessary in the future.

I have read SAA (kindle), and my wife requested a hard copy to read. It arrives today.

I understand that for every hope I have, there is someone here that once had the same hope only to be disappointed. I'm not going into this blindly, and I do appreciate all of the advice. Please keep it coming. I will not let my guard down, and I am taking the necessary measures to ensure she stays on track.

Again, thanks for the continuing advice and support,
John

John,
Keep following Dr. Harley's advice and I'm sure you will be ok. As far as getting the OMW's contact info, I'm sure your wife can get it from the command emergency recall list. They will have spouse information and home phone numbers. This would also be sort of a test of your wife's contrition and commitment to your marriage. If she is defogging, she will understand why the OMW deserves to know, and will get the info for you.

Good luck.

Thanks, good idea. I'll try that avenue, but seeing as they don't work for the same office and are not stationed at the same location, I don't think he would be on a recall list that we would have access to. I'm not aware of a service wide list.

ML, I thought after a week, this post wouldn't piss me off so much. I was wrong. I came here for education and advice. Not to be dictated to and cast off if I didn't take said advice verbatim. I have never said this advice was crap, and I have always thanked you all for caring. I guess I no longer deserve that care and attention because I questioned some of the advice.

Thanks

John, then I would say we are even. It's pretty rare that folks come here and ask for advice and then rudely dismiss the freely given advice. We are all peers just like you, with families and careers and don't have to post to you. We post out of a sense of caring, after all. You won't get much help here with that kind of attitude.

I am willing to put all that behind us and start off on a new foot.. I hope you can do the same.

I didn't think I was rude, but if that's the way you took it, I apologize. Really.

Everyone took one line out of the following quote and jumped all over me for it.


I said I was appreciative for, and listening to the advice, but I wasn't going to make any rushed decisions. My thinking was that different cases call for different levels of reaction, and you don't have to go nuclear every time. I was basically called an idiot for thinking that. I had no less than 10 people tell me I had to expose at work, or she would just cheat again. Now that I have reported back that Steve doesn't think it's a good idea, everyone is silent. Is it because you are tired of me questioning the advice, or you all don't want to question Steve's advice.

I don't want to start off on a new foot. This is how I live life; I make well, thought out decisions. I am no where near being out of the woods here. I want, and need, as much advice as I can get. If I am to be cut off again for trying to tailor that advice to my individual case, then so be it. Again, not being rude, just telling you where my thinking is.

I hope there are no hard feelings. I know I don't have any.
Thanks,
John

AM, I wanted to take the time to personally thank you for all of your post. I've thought of them, and reflected back on them several times over the past week. They were thoughtful, well written post that did cause me to take some things into further consideration.

One thing I wanted to clarify was my "cookie cutter" statement. I was not saying that the MB program was a cookie cutter program. What I was attempting to convey was that you can't take steps 1, 2, 3 etc., and apply them the same to every case. Specifically, the only part of the program I had a problem with was exposing at work. I am fully on board with the rest of the program, and my WW starts reading SAA this weekend. If she thinks it's as revolutionary as I do, she will join me in my next session with Steve.

Again. Thank you for the time you took to try and help me.
John

The advice that we gave you is standard Marriage Builder's best practices. Steve is taking a different strategy and that is ok, he is a therapist and we are not. And I sure hope it works for you. But it doesn't mean posters here gave you bad advice. We gave you standard MB advice that many of us have received from DR BILL HARLEY.

And you can take it or leave it. But it is rude when posters take their time and energy out of their lives to give you help and you dismiss that advice by saying other sources are less "hard line" or we are too cookie cutter. That attitude won't get you too far around here where there are LOTS of people who need help and few people available to help.

Wow. Ok then. Well, I never said any of you were wrong. I was never only looking for advice that fit my "pre-formed" opinion. I don't believe I lashed out to others like I was lashed out on.

I came here not wanting to expose to the OMW or the workplace. I now know that I must tell the OMW and I might have to expose at work. That's advice that I took that went against my opinion. Yes, Steve took a different approach. That's all I was saying; that there might be a different approach out there. I was only trying to say that no one wanted to take the nuances of my individual case into consideration. For that, people lashed out against me.

I'm sorry I wasted so much of your time. It appears that I must follow your advice, to the letter, or I am not worthy of it. I have no hard feelings, am I'm sorry that you do.

And this was the first post that I mentioned cookie cutter. If you notice I said I know telling the OMW was the right thing to do. The only thing I had a problem with was the workplace exposure. Everything went downhill from there, but now you're saying workplace exposure is contingent upon several factors. Are we just mis-communicating on this or what? Go back and look. The only thing I stuck to was the workplace issue.

I appreciate the apology. But please don't misunderstand my position or that of others. The issue is not that you didn't follow our advice to the letter but that you dismissed the advice you didn't like. Everyone has a "different approach;" but as long as the underlying principles are the same, it is all good.

It is all good, John, hopefully we can move on..

JohnW:

******edit****


Anyway. You should expose to the OMW. Its the right thing to do, and something that helps your marriage recovery the most. That extra set of eyes makes all the difference in the world.

Exposing up the command structure is something to be done when needed. Keep working with the SH on this.

Every officer who has an inappropriate relationship with an enlisted person, is FIRST AND FOREMOST, concerned about thier career. Especially as they get close to retirement. Throwing away a girlfriend is alot easier than $30-50k a year for the rest of your life.

Exposure to h! is WIFE, will insure that in many respects, he stays away from your W.

I don't happen to agree that you riding a roller-coaster for the next three months until the OM transfers to a new unit or position, and living in fear of your W continuing to hoop up either on-line or via the phone, is a good course of action. But if your committed to it, then see what happens.

You state that your WW seems remorseful, and doing the right things. Sometimes, this is a cover for the A. "If I do these things, then JohnW will not interfere in the A anymore...." Sometimes, it IS true. She is committed to this. This A of your WW took 4 long years to develop. It may not have had ANY traction for the first thee years. Then it accelerated. It is tough to end them, when they have that type of record. It is possible, and may be happening in your case. Stay vigilant, and verify. Be careful of the "I just needed CLOSURE" type of activiy on the p! art of your spouse.

You are two-three weeks past ! D-Day. The WW starts to feel that the OM should be doing SOMETHING more right now, to "PROVE" that she mattered to him. That is the most crushing thing to the wayward. (I have been there...) That all *THIS* is for nothing. All that she risked, isn't worth anything to the OM. And she just has to get *something*, anything from the OM to show her that she wasn't just a piece of meat. The first couple weeks, WW can keep this need under wraps, then the anger, and the desire to get to "closure" starts to spill over.

I can recommend NO BETTER time than now to get in touch with the OMW. You and her can compare notes to make sure that a secret meeting isn't being planned. (OMW tells you that the WH has a meeting 3 hours away, "in the other direction" from your city, and WW states that she has local training meeting today. BINGO!, BUSTED!)

WW has all the info you need to get in touch with OMW. She has the home address of OM. She! has the home phone. She may even have the OMW's cell phone number. Ask her for it. I know it is tough for YOU to get this info. But your WW has it. Its her "precious" right now. Time to take it away. She will be terrified of what might happen if you contact OMW. Oh Well. OTOH, If she wasn't afraid, it would mean that she isn't in contact, and this is good. When you ask for this info, you get it, and CALL right then. Do NOT WAIT. This isn't to threaten her with. It is NOT to allow her to contact OM, and have him put the spin to his BW, that "a crazy guy might contact you regarding me and his WW, he's crazy!"

If you do not get OMW right away, don't worry. You have seen how your WW is reacting. And that will tell you LOTS about where she is in this recovery. You can try again later. A letter with her to contact you at your office, is a good way to start the process as well.

Sorry you have to be here. You seem to hav! e a WW on the right track. Time will tell.

LG

I can't tell whether that is a dig at the people here who show up day after day to do the hard work of helping someone through a crisis.

Posters usually give "cookie-cutter" advice because they are following the writings of Dr Willard Harley. There is nothing else they can reasonably do.They are not privy to the telephone consultations with Steve Harley and they are not trained MB marriage coaches. If they do not give the "cookie-cutter" advice which for Dr Harley has provided a template in his articles here, the result will be a cacophony of "I think you should do this" babble of the kind that characterises other forums.

If this poster is getting advice from Steve then he should of course take it. However, I hope that your post is not intended to malign the help he was given here.

JohnW:

My experience helping thousands of couples survive an affair has led me to the conclusion that exposure is one of the most effective tools in ending this tragedy once and for all. An affair is not only a very painful experience for the betrayed spouse, but it's terribly misconceived. It fails 95% of the time. When the light of day shines on it, it's more likely to be seen for what it is -- the biggest mistake a person could ever make.

At first, exposure usually seems cruel from the unfaithful spouse's perspective. It looks like vengeance. But after an unfaithful spouse clearly sees the damage the affair has done, and has come out of the "fog," that spouse is usually thankful that someone had the sense to expose it.

There's another reason that an affair should be exposed. You might ask yourself the question: If you had not known about your wife's affair, would you have wanted the wife of her affair partner to tell you about it, even after the affair was over? If you would have wanted to know, you should tell her.

Best wishes,
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

Dude... it seems you want to expose, then you don't. Stop "[censored]-footing" and decide. Personally, I think FULL exposure is the only way. What if this guy keeps doing it to others? He has to be reprimanded in some way. Their bad behavior needs to be addressed.

Hello Jim..