Hello,

I will try to make this as succinct as possible and I apologize for not knowing all of the acronyms and shorthand around here.

I wish I wasn't posting this, but here goes - my wife and I have been together for 10 years and married for 7. We are both in our mid-30's and have one daughter (4).

We had rocky periods in our relationship, as everyone does, but I never thought it would come down to what happened. She had been growing distant from me and it especially got worse at the beginning of this year. She worked late, went to a lot of work functions and parties - but I never suspected anything and I trusted her implicitly. She began to talk about one of her co-workers a lot and although I was uncomfortable with it, I didn't suspect anything. He was having his own marital issues and would tell my wife about them.

Alledgedly in January he attempted to kiss her and she rebuked it, but the next month he did the same thing and she didn't fight. This led to a full-on PA and I discovered it in April, when she requested a separation based on "I don't love you anymore" and I checked her email and discovered the typical "I love you and can we wait for each other to figure our lives out" stuff.

I confronted her and she denied three times, until I finally confrotned her with the evidence (emails) plus I found hotel receipts and condoms in her purse.

Within a week of discovery, I was enrolled in psychotherapy and on anti-depressants. I want to work on becoming a better person first before I can fix my marriage, which I hope isn't too far gone.

At the beginning of this month (May) the PA apparently ended with the OM wanted to patch things up with his wife. My wife insists it was her doing as she wants to make "the universe right" again and feels guilty for the affair. She claims that they remain friends but he still tries to kiss her - but I found an email from last week that said he was "110% of what she wanted in life" and was having a hard time with the end of their PA. So I don't know who or what to believe anymore.

The thing is, she still has complete contact with this OM, works with him daily, goes out after work in groups with him, plays soccer together - she even spoke with the OM's wife to wish her a happy mother's day (they are FB friends). How messed up is that?

I'm optimistic but I'm no moron - I know this is still an EA and possibly a PA - but our home life is relatively normal with me fulfilling the loyal husband role while she has her cake and eats it too.

She has hinted about us staying together but not explicitly saying it. She flip-flops and puts me through an emotional roller-coaster of uncertainty. Now she says she's worried the universe won't work out and she refused to elaborate. I know she wants the OM's marriage to fail after he makes a token attempt to fix it, and they can be together.

She has also lied to the OM, claiming that I am a terrible person (which I'm not) and a bunch of other things that are outright lies, which I don't get. Why would she lie to him?

In terms of disclosure, my family knows(mom, dad, sister) my best friend knows and my co-workers. Her family knows that we are "separated" but living toether but they don't know what she did. She told one of her friends about the PA and told her cousin that we separated because I am a "great dad but terrible husband." Really? Last time I checked I didn't cheat! The OM's wife knows something happened but I question if she knows the extent of it. I don't even know how to contact her if I wanted to disclose it.

I want to make my marriage work again - even if she doesn't want to and is still in the fog right now, but I don't know my next steps.

I'm confused about what to do...what does everyone think?

Thanks.

Forgot to mention that I've read the basic concepts, have been trying despite everything to fulfill my wife's EN's and have avoided any Love Busters as best I can...but I'm starting to feel a little empty and frustrated.

OK BBNB, get ready and listen up. As long as your WW (wayward Wife) Has anything to do with this OM (other Man) your fighting a losing battle. The first and foremost thing to do is EXPOSURE IN NUCLEAR FASHION to everyone. Especially her workplace.But it takes a few days planning to do it correctly.You have just been unwillingly dragged into a WAR. I hope you understand this is now a WAR. Wars are won with plans. Much of what is going to be told to you here is counter intuitive, but FEAR of doing these things will probably result in a D (divorce)
Are you sure you want your M to recover firstly?

Welcome to MB, BBNB.

Isn't OMW on Facebook? Send her a private message there.

Welcome to MB. You need to get the book "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley right away! Second, your WW needs to quit her job. NC is the ONLY way you will recover your M. Sorry you need to be here.

Thanks - I do think my M can work again even if it's rough right now, I still love things about her but she's completely off of her rocker.

I've read here about exposure and how this is war and I'm prepared to fight, but don't know the steps to take and put in place to get through it.

I really want to talk to the OM's wife, truth be told but don't know how to contact her other than on FB. Should I create a dummy account and act as a "concerned citizen" or be myself when exposing?

The OM's wife knows something happened but I question if she knows the extent of it. I don't even know how to contact her if I wanted to disclose it. Hold off till the plan is formulated, you dont just start randomly exposing.

OK, this is all good advice.

It sucks because she CAN'T quit her job because of finances, but I know that NC needs to happen, it's really a rock and a hard place...

Yes, contact OMW asap. You need to tell her who you are and give her a way to contact you. She is your greatest ally to end this affair. If your WW has a FB account does she have OM listed as a friend? You need to do a fast and broad exposure to his family/friends and hers. Just tell the truth. There is a thread around here about FB exposure.

BBNB, your WW MUST quit her job. How you D affect your finances? Is your M not worth more than the income she brings in?

Welcome to Marriage Builders, BBNB. I am very sorry you are in this mess. But if you can follow these suggestions, you can probably save your marriage. The basic issue is that she is in her affair and the longer this goes on the more entrenched it becomes. That means that the solution is to kill her affair. And that is not that hard to do if you will expose it.

Affairs thrive on secrecy and that is how hers has been allowed to thrive and grow. Affairs are fantasy addictions so exposing them is like bringing in a crowd of people to watch the crackheads get high. It ruins the high! It is no fun to get high when people are watching you with disgust on their face.

Dr Harley, who has saved thousands of marriages over the years, calls exposure:


In your case, the OM is married so that would be a great exposure target. I would plan a very strategic exposure mission and expose the affair wide and far in one fell swoop. It is better to do in one day so that it has the maximum effect. Trickle exposures do not work. In your case, I would expose like this:

1. the OM's wife
2. your wife's parents and close family [ask them all to speak to her and use their influence to persuade her to end her affair]
3. the HR director, key VP and your wife and the OM's supervisor at the workplace [we have a letter you can use]
4. close friends
5. The OM's parents and close family from his facebook page

Additionally, I would explain to your wife that she will have to quit that job in order to stay in the marriage and END ALL CONTACT WITH THE OM. It needs to end NOW. And I don't get this nonsense about "separated." Separated means "separated;" if you live together you are obviously not separated. That is wayward foolishness that is used to get away with living like an alley cat in heat.

And lastly, I would plan on having a face to face with this loser and informing him that hell is coming his way if he doesn't buzz off. Let him know that if he doesn't stay away and this goes to divorce that you will have him dragged into court when you file on grounds of adultery.

That is how you kill an affair. You drive a great big knife in its heart!

BBNB, read this thread carrot and stick of plan A You are working on the carrot without the stick of plan A

I dont agree about contacting his wife ASAP. But others may chime in soon too. EXPOSURE should never be trickled. It goes off like a surprise attack. Planned.
She or He must go from the Job. Its your finances or your M. It has to be chosen unfortunately.

Look up her phone # and address and try calling her. Use *67 so the OM doesn't see your # on the caller ID. If you can't reach her, drive to her house and tell her in person.

The letter that should go to her workplace is this one:

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

Order the book today, either from the bookstore here or from an online service like Amazon, or you might find it in a large bookstore. I found a copy in Borders in California, and I was only there for two days. I live in the UK!.

Meanwhile, there are a number of Dr Harley's articles available free on this site. Start with How to Survive an Affair, and note the steps that it requires.

The first step is that the affair must be ended with complete no contact (NC) between the affair partners. If you expose your wife's affair at work, her employers might bring a swift end to contact between them by moving or firing one of the affair partners, especially if one works in a supervisory position over the other.

If your wife is willing to end the affair, however, she will leave the job anyway. Once she has done that, she will write a letter of no contact to the other man (OM), and you will ensure that this is posted to him.

Your first step is to expose to OMW and your wife's employers, TODAY. You know this man's name and who he woks for. It cannot be that hard to find a contact address or email for his wife. Try googling her name and see what comes up. I found my H's OW within 5 minutes on Google, even though she lives in another country and all I had was her first name and surname. Her name is very common throughout the world, and yet only one person with her name coud have been at a meeting my husband attended, whose minutes were posted on the Internet. I found her home address, home telephone number and husband's email address within seconds of finding that document.

Look for this woman. It won't be that hard. Don't make excuses.

You have a good chance at saving this M if you
--expose early
--expose to OM's wife

I firmly believe that if the AP is married then the spouse (and you) can put the extra pressure from both sides and that kills the A pretty fast!!!
blessing

Counter intuitive yet? Fear yet? MelodyLane is giving you rock solid advice.
As long as your WW is IN the A you have 0 chance of making your M work.

WHAT???

Please don't come to the thread of a new poster in a desperate crisis and contradict the advice that experienced, regular posters are giving.

Nobody is suggesting that exposure be trickled, but there is no reason to withhold this information from the wife for one second. She can be told today, as can any family members and friends who do not already know. The employers can be told today as well.

Nobody has suggested telling only the wife and not the employers or family. As it is, this exposure has ALREADY been trickled because some family members know, but not the wife, nor the employers.

He needs to track the wife down and expose to her TODAY.

Go to the OM's facebook page today and copy and paste his friends and family into a word doc for safekeeping. Pick out his parents and family members and put them on your exposure list. Here is a sample exposure letter for facebook:

Facebook exposure suggestions. First thing: go to the OP�s facebook page and copy and paste all their contacts into a word doc. This is real important because when you start exposure, you can expect the target to shut down the page.

When you expose on facebook, you should select key targets and send them a private message. Do not write this on a wall because it will be buried and ignored. Space your private messages out 60 seconds so fb does not shut you down for flooding. Make sure your full name shows up on facebook. Change your picture to one of you and your spouse and make sure there are several pictures of your children that are visible to the public.



Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW

Yes lets send them off half cocked to call OMW without a plan first. When I made that comment he had little info to go on. What if he had picked up the phone and just called her then without a FULL understanding of the exposure process.
no reason to withhold this information from the wife for one second Again I dont agree. It should be his first call AFTER he has all targets aligned. Or its just a continuation of trickling the E.

Okay, here's "NeverGuessed's BH Survival Kit".

You've partially exposed her affair, but you're going to need proof to counter her crap ("good father, poor husband"), with evidence of the truth ("poor mother, %@&()?@%% wife"). Some of this also is protection for your situation when she goes ballistic after full exposure. Being publically outed as a skank affects many women that way.

1 - Put a keylogger on any computer she uses that you can access.
2 - Put Flexispy on her cell-phone.
3 - Put a VAR in her car, or any room she would use to take private calls.
4 - Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it with you, and "on" at all times in her presence (preventing bogus "domestic violence" complaints).
5 - Assemble an extensive and complete e-address list of all people with leverage on your WW - parents, siblings (sisters are very good), friends, clergy, co-workers, sorority sisters, everybody. This will be the distribution list for nuclear exposure.
6 - Make a list of all joint financial accounts. Anticipate moving half the funds from all of them into pre-established private accounts at exposure.
7 - Inventory all assets and the title to each - home, cars, etc.
8 - Research the divorce laws of your jurisdiction, and the relevance of proof of adultery thereon.
9 - Take care of yourself physically - eat right, drink water, exercise.
10 - Take solace that you're in contact with a lot of folks who have been through where you are now.

But if you can't commit to having her leave her job (unless he does), you should simply resign yourself to being second-fiddle in your WW's romantic life. Right now she loves him; she does NOT love you. That CANNOT change without removal from his presence.

And this is why you expose to the OM's wife AND the OM's parents. You will not only destroy the current affair but by telling the OM's parents you will destroy any future hope of this affair. If his parents know she is just a married woman who is committing adultery, they will NEVER welcome her into the family. If the OM's mother is decent, she would never dream of allowing your wife to darken her doorstep.

This exposure will dash your wife's hopes of a future with the OM. You need to run this vermin off. He is attacking your marriage and your child's family. Here is the message you need to send to that scumbag:

But no one is suggesting a trickle exposure. Telling him to expose to the OMW today does not mean he can't do this strategically. I gave him a strategic PLAN along with a list of targets and even exposure letters. It doesn't take a week to put that together.

I fully expect him to do this TODAY unless there is a compelling he can't.

You�re going to get universal advice for what you must do versus what you will want to do. I also get a feeling that you�re the type of man that will be afraid to follow the advice of what you must do to save your marriage. I hope I�m wrong, but here goes:

Stop enabling your wife�s affair. There are some very simple steps to recovery and saving your marriage. They�re all requirements. None of the things I�m about to say are optional things that you can choose to do to save or not save your marriage.

Number one, above all things, is to expose the affair to your family and anyone who can put pressure on the affair. The biggest ally you can have is the OM�s wife, who will probably do more to singlehandedly kill the affair than anyone else.

You must then target all family that can target this behavior and have an influence. You do all exposure without warning. You don�t threaten your wife with exposure. You simply do it and do so in a nuclear fashion. Exposure is shock and awe to an affair since it brings out what has been done in secret into the open and family and friend then render their opinions on it.

Your wife must then quit her job and agree to no contact for life with OM. That means no more working side by side and no more soccer or anything that puts her in any kind of contact with OM.

You must snoop. Look at phone records, emails, receipts, etc. You have a good start on this. Keep it up.

Don�t tell your WW about MB (this website). Keep this place secret and let us do the thinking for you.

You must kill any and all ideas your WW has about you and her having an amicable and friendly divorce. There is no such thing. I speak from experience here.

This means that you will let her know in a very calm manner that you will not simply let her walk away, take your daughter from you, and destroy your family without a fight. This means you make it very clear to her that if she chooses the path of divorce that you will fight tooth and nail down for everything in the house down to the last fork and that you will file on the grounds of adultery. You will put OM on the stand to testify about their affair and you will seek sole physical and legal custody.

This sounds harsh, and the reality is that you won�t get it, but the threat of it is huge to a WW living a fantasy. You are in charge of destroying the fantasy world your WW is living in and consequences to divorce are a harsh and cold reality that most WW�s believe don�t apply to them.

My gut tells me you�re going to be the indecisive betrayed husband who is afraid of upsetting his WW because her anger is more terrifying than the affair. I really hope I�m wrong.

But the reality is that her continuing contact and the continuation of the affair are the greatest threat to your marriage. The only things that will kill the affair are things which are hard to do, require courage, and are counter intuitive.

But know this if you dismiss my advice: I speak to you as a man who didn�t listen to the advice given and paid the price for it.

The people on these boards know what it takes to save marriages.

I said it, hills and for the record I killed my H's first A without the help of MB simply by exposing it to OWH. Of course I also directed him to get SAA today and YES he needs to expose to OMW today because she will be his greatest ally in killing this A.

Sheesh!

OK everyone, this all sounds great but I'm sure you know how tough it is.

What steps do I need to take to prepare for the fallout from exposure? It's unfortunate that some people already know...

BTW...

Exposure will make your wife MAD.

Expect it.

Many BH's initially regret exposure as their WW's will wholeheartedly act like exposure was the final straw and no matter what they will never reconcile (btw...crack addicts behave the same way when you flush their crack down the toilet...as in "NOW...I will never forgive you").

Do not fret.....Your marriage can survive her anger but it can not survive an ongoing, never ending, further entrenching affair.

Absent ending it and removing the third party from your marriage you've got no chance.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - and NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS and NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAYS or HOW MAD SHE GETS...
DO
NOT
LEAVE
YOUR
HOME.

If she wants space to "think" offer to clear a "space" for her in the garage or basement. Do not voluntarily leave your own home. The cage door is open, you are not her keeper...SHE is free to leave but you stay put no matter what and STAY CALM (such that you don't give her a legal reason to call the cops and have you removed from the home)

Please be prepared for her to be spitting nails angry. That means exposure worked its magic. When I exposed to OWH she call ME screaming at me and I knew right then it worked. Unfortunately for my M, I did not know about MB so even though the A ended we never recovered hence the second A and OC.

Please work this plan exactly as advised. Do NOT be afraid. Keep in mind that a WW will not respect a wimpy BH you really need to be strong and calm.

Since she has already hinted that you are the "bad guy" in the M, I 2nd the mini recorder and keep it on you at all times that you are interacting with her.

We are all behind you and wish you were not having to go through this but we understand and really hope everything works out and will be with you every step of the way.

This is one reason why we advise you to do exposure in ONE SWOOP and without any forewarning...because the fallout CAN BE significant.

If you successfully expose to everyone...she'll be mad...but you can ACT a bit contrite as though you had no idea she would be THAT mad and even say "I'm sorry you feel that way". She'll be mad but since the cat is out of the bag it's not like she needs to put on a full show in order to manipulate you further to maintain her secret. What I mean by that last sentence. An incomplete exposure will likely result in her being/acting MORE mad in order to get you to "SHUT UP". If you remove the need to manipulate you...you've perhaps overcome a little of her motivation to punish you.

Trust me...it's ALL 100% about the affair. Anything you do to threaten her affair will be met with hostility. She most likely will go through the roof when she finds out. Some WW's will go the other way and give the silent treatment (which is still anger). Some may even file for divorce. But as Dr. Harley states in his materials and as I experienced in my marriage...EXPOSURE is the beginning of the end. 98% of all affairs end within 2 years of exposure...MOST end within the first month as OM, in your case, will most likely return to his marriage and dump your wife.

Sure she'll blame you at first...but in time, IF she gets it (which is the only way you'll eventually reconcile with her and want to stay with her yourself)...she'll THANK YOU for man'ing up and saving her from herself.

Mr. Wondering

One of the things to expect immediately after exposure is the infidels will go off somewhere together to talk.
Before you expose, put a GPS on her car. Find out where they go to talk.
Usually a nearby park or parking lot.

So how will you handle the financial details of divorce? Will you be able to afford the house on your own? Will you have to sell it? Think this through, because you sound as though you're placing the priority on your financial situation, and if that's the case you've got a real wake-up call coming when you see what your financial state is after a divorce.

You brace yourself. Your wife will be furious. Just expect it. She will make all sorts of threats "I was going to work on it, now I'm not," "I am filing for divorce." blah, blah, blah, blah,........ all exposed WSs say the same thing. You just smile and say "So sorry you are upset dear! Can I get you a drink?"

Don't fight, don't grovel, don't justify, don't cry like a gurl, and DON'T TRY AND REASON WITH HER. You can't reason with her anymore than you can reason with a falling down drunk. Just hang on and her anger will blow over.

p.s. if she gets fired from her job, she will collect unemployment and will likely get a package.

If she stays there you won't get benefit from that job anyway because you will be divorced. And divorces are very expensive!

You need to put the brakes on this affair NOW before this gets more entrenched. She might even be trying to get pregnant since it is her goal to destroy the OMW's marriage.

Ditto !
The #1 mistake made by BH/BW is thinking they can reason with the foggy.
It's like trying to reason & talk some sense into a crabby 3 year old ...

Just stick to your plan regardless of her response.

Not everywhere.
It's not cut & dry.
Sometimes there is a hearing.
If a person in Calif gets fired "for cause" (they violate their contract or code of ethics) they could be ineligible for unemployment.
It depends on the circumstances.

Anyway, if she is not fired, she needs to quit.

I will simply quote for you what DR H has to say about this as I have done in another thread here.


The greatest skill DR H has regarding affairs is his ability to break things down and put it in simple layman terms that leaves NO ROOM for misunderstanding. If you disregard his very explicit advise, you are not following the MB method of saving your M and will you are relying instead on Plan Hope.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Yes, it's unfortunate that they know if the adulterers know that they know. Because the adulterers will spin the story in a version that makes you out to be an insecure, whack-job husband who thinks every man in the world is after his wife.

No matter. Set up your exposure list and jump on this. The fact that OM's wife knows 'something but not what' means she's heard a little of the trickle, or more than likely has already been spun to by WW and OM. You've still got time to right the ship. Get on this today.

It would be helpful if you keep the following principles in mind, as you execute the exposure, and live through the aftermath:

- If WW and OM were so "blessed" and "meant to be together" they should welcome the fact that your action will inform their friends and families of their good fortune!

- You knowing better, must believe that the best weapon against the secrecy that facilitates affairs is tearing off the covers, and letting the light in.

Their affair is an internal infection in the bodies of both families. The only way to save the patients is to operate to excise the infection. This entails blood and pain; the alternatives are slow, agonizing deaths.

We will be here as the emotional "blood and pain" comes your way.