Marriage Builders
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Sex addict? - 05/18/11 05:21 PM
Lurking until today. Sorry, this is a bit long.

My WH had sex with a POSOW after meeting her in a bar while on an annual drunken golf weekend with his brother and friends last year. Had sex both nights of trip. He spent the next month on phone (she lives 7 hours away) courting her and planning another meeting. He planned meeting her while on business trip while I stayed home watching his boys, my awesome stepsons. Nice.

DDAY morning, I call his hotel room because he didn't return calls or texts from previous night. I was suspicious by weeks of strange behavior and heavy drinking. (I work a second shift, leaving tons of time to pursue POSOW on the phone.) Later saw hours and hours of phone time; hundreds and hundreds of texts. Painful.

The next morning, we talked. He confessed to everything. Since then, he's showed deep remorse, read SAA, doing HNHN, taking EP, NC letter sent and adhered to. We are in IC and, until last month, in MC. He admitted to a porn addiction and is gaining control (a few slips, so not perfect). Until now, I had felt awesome about our recovery. He's been an open book and super positive about therapy (even the tough stuff), meeting needs, precautions. I'm still rebuilding.

WH had two undiscovered affairs in first marriage; he told me about them before we married.(I was able to "justify" them because he said EX wasn't meeting his sexual needs and WH wan't meeting her emotional ones; his EX had an affair and left the marriage, not knowing WH was in one, too.)

WH's brother also had an affair on this trip that led to a deep EA and him saying he was leaving his family. Brother has had many SAs and EAs while married 20+ years. He is being treated as a sex addict.

Brother's wife sent a note a month into our recovery, saying she had more information/lies about my WH and because WH hasn't confessed to them, she suspects he is is a sex addict, too. WH racks brain for other incidents, and says there's nothing. We chalk it up to lies from the brother (trying to make himself look better) or her concern for us because of the nightmare she's dealing with in her WH.

This week, truth comes out: While on business/affair trip (the night before POSOW arrived) WH pursued another woman (23 years old!), trying to get her number and asking to meet him later that night. She declined. WH says he was so drunk that night he doesn't remember propositioning her. Much of that night is blackout for him, but he sadly admits he could have done it, given the way he was thinking/acting back then. Out of control, no rules, all about him. Just has no memory.

WH swears that he would have confessed this incident if he'd had any inkling he'd done it. He is going to discuss it all with his therapist; says he doesn't know what to think.

My question: Is a man who has had three affairs on two wives, and pursued another woman the night before he's supposed to meet his POSOW "love," a sex addict? (And let's not forget the addiction to porn.)

Very depressed about this all today. Hoping for some wise counsel from you awesome MB vets.
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 05:39 PM
I'm sorry your husband, for whatever reason, has treated your gift of love and commitment so shabbily. I hope you (and he) find the answers you need from people qualified to provide them.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 05:43 PM
Thanks NG. In our recovery, we've considered ourselves lucky his "problem" wasn't as "bad" as his brother's.

But this incident of him pursuing a woman (in a drunken haze) on the eve of meeting his POSOW has me thrown.

Thought I had cried all the tears I was going to over this. ...
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 05:58 PM
I am not going to chalk this up to sex addiction. I am going to chalk this up as just addiction. Either alcohol, porn, or sex an addiction is an addiction. Strong boundaries must be implemented for his recovery and the recovery of your marriage.

As the vets come by they will probably repeat some of this.

1) EP's have to in place. That means no brother, trips, etc... without you always in his presence. His relationship with his family must be very guarded by you. They are dangerous to him.

2) You need him to get a counseling session with Dr. H to discuss his waywardness. They will likely say you need to implement POJA and RH immediately. YOu need severe consequences if this is broken.

He is a serial cheater and your recovery depends on some extreme boundaries with him. That may even mean moving, changing jobs, etc.

If he is willing to meet your EP's immediately you need to enforce with him the minute those are broken you will go into PlanB and his azz will be living someplace else with only the clothes on his back.

If he isn't going to meet your EP's you need to get to a lawyer to discuss finances, children, homes, assets, etc. because you will be heading into PlanB as soon as possible.

You also need to get a Post-Nup agreement immediately that states if he doesn't follow EP's you will be taken care of very well upon a separation and/or divorce.

Try and stay in Plan A for the time being until you can get EP's implemented. If not, then I recommend Plan B as quickly as possible. You cannot save a marriage if he is unwilling to take EP.

My 2cents - I know more advice will be on its way.
Posted By: Bethesda Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 05:59 PM
Sweetpea2011:
Your husband is either a sex addict or has a hard time controlling himself. I think MEN use the excuse of not being satisfied at home as a reason for cheating and I just do NOT believe that is the case because this is happening way too often and with similar signs, trends and behavior among all MEN and WOMEN who agree to
entertain MEN.

When he told you his first wife was not providing what he needed at home so he had an affair - RED FLAG in MY BOOK! I know as women we want to believe MEN but now that you are experiencing the same thing that is clearly not the case. Are you not providing what he needs at home? So now, what is his excuse. The TRUTH about this infidelity is that MEN have some ISSUES and it MUST be something within that drives them to have multiple partners. I wish someone would have told me before I signed up for MARRIAGE.LOL! I am starting to believe that they are all WIRED to do the same thing but some just are able to control themselves better than others. This is happening WAY to often and I think it is time as a country and society that we STUDY this type of behavior among MEN and WOMEN because it is not NORMAL but in other countries it is NORMAL. Some men have 5-6 wives and multiple children with each. Most know upfront of the potential to have another wife and children so all expectations are on the table from day one.

My mom divorced by dad when I was in 2nd grade for cheating and multiple failed attempts reconciling their differences. She remarried several years later
to find herself faced w/ the same thing in a new marriage. She is still married
to my stepfather but she basically told him she would NOT put up with infidelity. I am not experiencing my own set of issues with my H and I have provided everything under the SUN for my H and he still slept outside of our marriage. My mom tells me it is the same thing just a different person.

I think my H has a sexual addiction too because in the mist of all he has put me through and we are trying to heal I found him looking at C list for woman while I was out of town. He forgot to delete his sent e-mails. Really?

I'm convinced....

MEN and WOMEN that entertain MEN really have some real issues in this country or maybe this country has it all wrong on how we view marriage. Is it really for a MAN to be with one WOMAN? Are other countries right? I guess it depends on your religious beliefs. Right now, mine are in question.....

My H told me a man can have sex with a woman and have NO emotional attachment whatsoever. I guess that is why we see some people with children and say...how and why did someone sleep with that person?? Just the pleasure...That is all MEN are after in most cases.




Posted By: schtoop Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:04 PM
Just because a person has poor boundaries, lack of self control, is selfish and only thinks of themselves, and a normal sex drive, DOES NOT mean they are an "addict".

Your husband has maturity issues, not a sexual addiction.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:14 PM
Bethesda:

I can't believe I thought that because I knew of his previous affairs on EX that would protect my marriage. I *thought* we were using his experiences w/divorce/communication to affair-proof ours. We had a fantastic/active sex life.

He's not using any excuses in his affair in our marriage. He knows he was wrong, and that we weren't paying ENOUGH attention to our marraige. But he's shouldering most of the burden.

My SIL is in a support group for spouses of sex addicts. She says if she stays with her WH, she likely will be dealing with infidelity for the rest of her life as the spouses in her support group are. So few sex addicts can be "cured."

My WH thought with the "right" wife, he wouldn't cheat. And yet he did.

Now I'm just trying to figure out if he is a sex addict. And if he is, if that can't be controlled by MB techniques and therapy.

I love him with all my heart. He IS a good man. He's made a lot of progress. But will it be enough?

I don't think I can survive another affair.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
Just because a person has poor boundaries, lack of self control, is selfish and only thinks of themselves, and a normal sex drive, DOES NOT mean they are an "addict".

Your husband has maturity issues, not a sexual addiction.


Schtoop: Are you saying you don't think sexual addiction exists, or just that my WH isn't one?
Posted By: schtoop Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:29 PM
I'm sure that true sex addicts do exist.

But I'm saying to proposition younger women at bars while whooping it up with friends, pusuing another and having an affair, and a habit of looking at porn, then blaming it on sexual addiction is a cop out.

Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:29 PM
it's toughlove: thanks for the reply.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
1) EP's have to in place. That means no brother, trips, etc... without you always in his presence. His relationship with his family must be very guarded by you. They are dangerous to him.
EPs are in place and being adhered to. No overnight business trips, no alcohol not in my presence, no trips w/brother/friends. He's all on board. WE have even discussed lunches with male business acquaintances.
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
2) You need him to get a counseling session with Dr. H to discuss his waywardness. They will likely say you need to implement POJA and RH immediately. YOu need severe consequences if this is broken.
He's in individual therapy now. POJA is in place. Not familiar with RH?? Consequence is divorce.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
He is a serial cheater and your recovery depends on some extreme boundaries with him. That may even mean moving, changing jobs, etc.
This affair did not happen around work, although first two affairs in first marraige were involved with work. Solo work outtings are forbidden.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
If he is willing to meet your EP's immediately you need to enforce with him the minute those are broken you will go into PlanB and his azz will be living someplace else with only the clothes on his back.
He's willing and been doing so for six months.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
You also need to get a Post-Nup agreement immediately that states if he doesn't follow EP's you will be taken care of very well upon a separation and/or divorce.
This is interesting. I insisted on this immediately. He agreed on day 1 or two, but ever since backpedaled. We addressed it in MC, but to no avail. I will ponder this more.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Try and stay in Plan A for the time being until you can get EP's implemented. If not, then I recommend Plan B as quickly as possible. You cannot save a marriage if he is unwilling to take EP.
I'm no longer in plan A. just following protocol for UA time and no love busting. So is WH.

Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by schtoop
I'm sure that true sex addicts do exist.

But I'm saying to proposition younger women at bars while whooping it up with friends, pusuing another and having an affair, and a habit of looking at porn, then blaming it on sexual addiction is a cop out.


WH doesn't think he's a sex addict. He thinks he has boundary issues, which we have addressed.

I'm the one concerned he's an addict. His brother is one.

When does a serial cheater cross the line to sex addict?
Posted By: Bethesda Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:31 PM
I agree with you. Another affair would send me over the edge. My situation is already so messed up!

My H felt he was not a sex addict and perhaps WE do not understand what that means. I felt he was addicted to sex to have a one time encounter w/someone unprotected, seek out prostitutes, on-line porn sites and communicate online seeking women for a good time. All in the same period have a great sex life with your wife not knowing any of this is going on. Although he says he stopped he continued, therefore, to me you are either addicted and cannot stop your behavior or you have no regard for my feelings or the marriage.

I really thought I had a great marriage. I would have never imagined my situation in one million years! I was the all american wife or at least I thought I was. My H decided to seek a low life who only saw what he represented because if he had another occupation she probably would have turned the opposite way. The OW was clearly aware we were married. No regard. AT ALL!

I wish I could put my finger on this but if someone could answer WHY men really cheat it would be the MILLION $$ answer. I think we all can come up with crazy excuses an blame everything under the sun but I am starting to think, given all the stories, that MEN have a hard time staying and maintaining a monogamous sexual relationship because they are not HARD wired to be. They are aggressive human beings that require multiple partners. I know it seems crazy but why is okay in other cultures to have multiple women but not ours?? Just something I have been thinking about. I am not saying it is NOT WRONG in my eyes but I'm just looking at all the stories we hear on this site and elsewhere.

Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by Bethesda
I agree with you. Another affair would send me over the edge. My situation is already so messed up!

ughhhhh! why us?

But I'm not sure I agree that men are the sole problem. I've been reading this site for months, happily thinking my husband had boundary issues -- not a sex addict, if he is one -- and there are many, many betrayed husbands on here, too.

Wish I knew why people cheat. My dad cheated, and I KNEW my husband cheated in his first marriage. I was just stupid to think "I" was the elixir he needed for a solid/faithful marriage.

Sex addict or serial cheater. Does it really matter the label? I think a psychologist might say yes. Perhaps MB veterans might say yes, might say no. I have no idea.

sigh.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:43 PM
Sweet,

Something isn't adding up.

We cannot sit on this forum to determine whether he is a sex addict or not? It isn't are job. We are here to give you the tools needed to make sure your marriage can be saved and then thrive.

Why are you so concerned if it is a sex addiction or not? Does he need a justification?

Can't you just accept that he has horrible boundaries and very extreme precautions must be made?

Please provide us with a list of your EP's for him so we can see exactly how you are protecting your marriage.

I wouldn't try and justify this. I would stay in the present and look at what needs to be done today, which is your need for EP's and his need for boundaries.

Cheers Tough~
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 06:44 PM
Also - what are his EN's and your EN's? Can he start also posting to this forum?
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Sweet,

Something isn't adding up.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
We cannot sit on this forum to determine whether he is a sex addict or not? It isn't are job. We are here to give you the tools needed to make sure your marriage can be saved and then thrive.
Got it. Makes sense. We are using the tools (EPs, ENs, UA), but this latest revelation has me spinning. Particularly because of his brother's SA diagnosis. I can handle boundaries, have been for six months. Sex addiction? Don't know. ...

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Why are you so concerned if it is a sex addiction or not? Does he need a justification?

Am concerned because of info I'm getting from SIL about brother's sex addiction. She thinks they are very similar, even though my WH "only" had three affairs (two on EX wife, one on me) and one "attempted" affair with young woman. She thinks a man who is having sex the night before he's supposed to meet his POSOW is a sex addict.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Can't you just accept that he has horrible boundaries and very extreme precautions must be made?
Boundaries, I can fight. Not sure about sex addiction, if he's got it.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Please provide us with a list of your EP's for him so we can see exactly how you are protecting your marriage.
--I have access to phone, phone bill, computers, email, etc.
--No overnight work trips w/out me
--No socializing w/out me
--No drinking w/out me. he also just declared he is no longer drinking at all. He is very upset about the blackout/proposition night.

Those are the biggies.

Originally Posted by itistoughlove
I wouldn't try and justify this. I would stay in the present and look at what needs to be done today, which is your need for EP's and his need for boundaries.
I am taking to heart your advice to stay in the present and doing what needs to be done. WH has been SPOT ON with all requirements. He actually loves therapy. He wants to be a man without integrity. I'm the one freaking out.

Cheers Tough~
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 07:20 PM
make that: he WANTS to be a man with integrity. not without integrity.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by itistoughlove
Also - what are his EN's and your EN's? Can he start also posting to this forum?

His are:
Admiration
Healthy, hot sex
respect
spontenaity
... and healthy, hot sex

Mine are:
Truthfulness/honesty
Romance
Affection/sex
Relaxation
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 07:27 PM
Doubtful he'd post.

I've told him I've been lurking for months. I told him I just posted for the first time because of how afraid I am about his being a possible sex addict.

He likes MB concepts, but he's not been a big fan of me lurking. He thinks it keeps the A fresh; I tell him it's the misery loves company and seeing others in the same boat, and sadly, worse makes me feel more normal.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: Sex addict? - 05/18/11 10:28 PM
Sweet - I am concerned you are not fully understanding the EP's and EN's. I would encourage you to go back and redo the questionaire.

Please use SAA and HNHN as guidance. Spontenaity isn't an EN. SF can be #1, but so your husband needs one more.

Your EP's are very weak. I would encourage you to call Dr. H to find out some stronger boundaries. Your husband is a serial cheater. You need very strict EP's to prevent this from happening again.

Your husband's family is very dangerous to him at the moment. You need guidance on how to deal with his family.

Read the threads. Below are some EP's you may want on your list.

No Alcohol and enter a 12 Step Program
Never allowed to travel alone, I will always accompany you on your travels.
We sleep under the same roof every night for the rest of our lives
STD Test
Authentic repentance
Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)
Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after
Confession & apology to children
Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
IC, MC, & Family
Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose
NC Letter
Complete Open Transparency for All electronic communication: No single facebook (joint facebook only)
No nights apart
Leisure time together only
No opposite sex friends ever
Complete radical honesty about our entire history together
15+ hours together weekly
Implement Policy of radical honesty and joint agreement
Post Nup agreement that provides for me very well if we ever divorce

Cheers Tough!
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 02:17 PM
itstoughlove:

Sorry for the long delay, but I wanted to wait until posting again after a joint therapy session with my husband's therapist.

My concerns about my husband being a sex addict (like his brother) have been greatly reduced. My husband's doctor doesn't offer a sexual addiction diagnosis, not because he doesn't think it may not exist, but because there is considerable debate within the psychiatric community concerning it.

Even so, he doesn't think my husband has exhibited the two key indicators of an addiction (my fear is an addiction to sex): increased tolerance or withdrawal. Instead, the therapist said WH has used low-quality, anonymous sex (and drinking, and porn) to fill a void of insecurity but didn't display a need for more; and hasn't exhibited any symptoms of withdrawl. There's not pathological lying (outside of affair), no narcissism (outside of affair). He is working on a compulsion to view porn (not defined as addiction, he says; WH has slipped up twice in six months and deals with it right away.) Therapist says WH is not pathological and can be treated. So, no excuses for bad behavior in the future, at least from therapist's perspective.

Re: the extraordinary precautions and emotional needs lists. We do understand them fully. I mentioned only the biggest/most important EPs earlier while posting quickly. The list is signficant and gets additions/subtractions -- mutually agreed upon and adhered to -- as needed. We've been doing this for six months, so we understand some EPs are absolutely necessary; others can be modified based on my comfort level; others will likely be added as they come up. In fact, my freak out has made me insist again on a post-nuptial agreement. We're doing it. He's already done many EPs on your list: genuine remorse, full access to all electronic communications, STD test, NC letter, no travel/nights apart, complete honesty of history. 15+ hours/week of UA time is always our minimum these days.

I feel that our boundaries are solid ... it's just that time will tell if he continues to meet them. And I'm gaining more confidence every day that he will; and I now feel that his therapist is definitely equipped to give him the right guidance, too.

ENs. We have those down, too. I didn't look up WH's list when posting earlier 'cause i just wanted to finally get my concern out there. Going too fast! The "spontaneity" one really is "recreating together." My husband loves to be busy, to "do" and "go." Music, dining out, movies, theater. But always with me. So having refreshed my memory on his, they are: Admiration, healthy hot sex, respect, recreating together, and physical attraction.

I hope this explains more. I'm not making any excuses for my WH. So far, though, he's been nearly perfect at meeting all these requirements (except for the two porn slip ups). His therapy goals are to save his marriage and heal himself, and everything his therapist has him thinking about and doing dovetail nicely with the MB's philosophies.

My whole post really wasn't about his behavior since DDAY. It was about resolving this issue of his brother being diagnosed as a sex addict and the very radical treatment he's getting, and my husband NOT being diagnosed as one after finding out about him propositioning another woman in the midst of his one-month affair. But now, I'm comfortable with the apparent dichotomy in diagnoses.

I'm confident we are getting the right help and setting clear boundaries that will safeguard our marriage. I'm confident that as time goes on, we'll stick to the plan and thrive. We've got all the tools we need to be successful. If he decides to cheat again, it will be with eyes, mind and heart fully aware ... and then nothing will save him.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 03:24 PM
SP;

I would say that while he probably is NOT a sex addict, his sexual behaviors are in the category of abuse (termed like alcohol abuse or drug abuse versus addiction).

EP's will begin to eliminate the threat of sex outside of the marriage and use of pornography.

The final nail in the coffin will be building a loving, romantic marriage in which all his needs for sexual fulfillment are met.

However, due to his abuse of sexual activity, he will likely have to realign his appetite to marriage. This will make eliminating porn ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE.

As someone who at one time turned to porn to attempt to fulfill my needs (let me tell you; IT DOESN'T WORK!) - I can tell you that emotional and intimate SF with my wife makes headstands with a midget, roulette wheel, and a hammer involved pale in comparison (ridiculous illustration to signify the ridiculousness of sexuality portrayed in pornography).

It will likely take some time to rebuild that intimacy, but if you work MB, it will return faster than any other approach.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 04:02 PM
IMO the term "sex addiction" is thrown around far too often.
Really, a man such as your WH, uses inappropriate sexual activity to assuage his anxiety and his deep seeded doubts about his manhood.

This has NOTHING to do with YOU or your sex life with WH.

WH brought his anxiety and doubts into the M as left overs from his first failed M.

Follow the MB path.
Do the exercises.
Forget about "sex addiction".
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by SweetPea2011
If he decides to cheat again, it will be with eyes, mind and heart fully aware ... and then nothing will save him.

EGG ZAK LEE
Posted By: markos Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
IMO the term "sex addiction" is thrown around far too often.

...

Follow the MB path.
Do the exercises.
Forget about "sex addiction".

I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley tends to agree. He says the definition of "addiction" has changed and he uses a much more narrower definition:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=560
Posted By: MrNiceGuy Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 04:26 PM
Bethesda .. Why is it you keep refering to "MEN" only having an issues with affairs or multiple sex partners? It happens to WOMEN .. just as MUCH as MEN ... infact if you have been watching this site for some time now, you would notice that most of the stories lately have been the opposite of your opinion and popular belief that MEN have this need to cheat.

I am infact a man and had PLENTY of oppertunity to cheat on my wife when she was with holding sex from me becasue our relationship was falling apart. I never ONCE cheated on my wife. Did I think it?? YES i did! I was starving for my wifes attention for almost 12 years as my wife paid more attention to the kids and her online friends than me!

Men dont need sex JUST for pleasure as you described, it is infact an important part of who we are and how we feel loved! Have you read His Needs Her Needs? I could say the same thing about Women needing Conversation! BUT Women need intimate conversation to feel emotionally connected to their spouse as much as a man needs sex to feel emotionally connected to his wife! This of course is just a generalized rule, but it is not fair to paint a picture that men only want sex for pleasure and that we are some kind of animal and have no emotions that revolve around it. Sorry if I sound a bit harsh 2x4 me if i deserve it.. but i was a bit thrown back after reading Bethesdas replies ... they were a bit offensive to me.

To the Original poster .. I am sorry for your situation. I believe you have come to the right place and that your marriage can recover if you keep all the EP's in place and BOTH of you work on maintaining Emotional needs and avoiding Love Busters!

MNG
Posted By: Mulan Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 05:56 PM
If you want to know is somebody is an addict for *anything*, run their behaviour through the Addict Filter and see what comes up:

1). Lies. Addicts lie about what they do and go to great lengths to keep it secret - not because they're ashamed, but to keep anyone else from interfering with their drug.

2) Escalation. They build up a tolerance for the behaviour/substance and need more and stronger doses of it.

3) Selfishness. Addicts love nobody and nothing but their drug - not their families and not even themselves. They only love their drug and if necessary will give up everything else they have to keep it.

I agree with who posted that a lot of men are not wired for monogamy. But a lot of women aren't, either.

So, if you don't like the idea of monogamy, then STAY SINGLE.

Nobody is entitled to cheat on a spouse and torment that spouse and children to death. It doesn't matter if "needs weren't being met". If that's really the case, either fix it or GET OUT.

Once single, you can date all the other SINGLE people you want and have sex 20 times a day if you want.

But the idea of cheating has got to become Socially Unacceptable. It has to occur to cheaters sometime that other human beings are not pets you keep for your amusement, and that by cheating in a marriage you are destroying other people's lives.

To the Original Poster: Your husband has got to stop excusing his behaviour with "my needs weren't being met so my cheating was justified." No way. That CANNOT be an option. Either he works to create a satisfying marriage with you, or he leaves and gets a divorce so he can BE SINGLE and date all the other SINGLE people he wants.

Single or married. Pick one. The damage comes from the delusion that you can have it both ways.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 06:47 PM
HHH:
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
I would say that while he probably is NOT a sex addict, his sexual behaviors are in the category of abuse (termed like alcohol abuse or drug abuse versus addiction).
Agreed.

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
EP's will begin to eliminate the threat of sex outside of the marriage and use of pornography.
They have so far, with the exception of two slips WH has admitted to and is readdressing in therapy. He's determined, though, to end it, knows how destructive it is.

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
The final nail in the coffin will be building a loving, romantic marriage in which all his needs for sexual fulfillment are met.
We're definitely on our way

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
However, due to his abuse of sexual activity, he will likely have to realign his appetite to marriage. This will make eliminating porn ABSOLUTELY IMPERATIVE.

As someone who at one time turned to porn to attempt to fulfill my needs (let me tell you; IT DOESN'T WORK!) - I can tell you that emotional and intimate SF with my wife makes headstands with a midget, roulette wheel, and a hammer involved pale in comparison (ridiculous illustration to signify the ridiculousness of sexuality portrayed in pornography).
Agreed!

Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
It will likely take some time to rebuild that intimacy, but if you work MB, it will return faster than any other approach.
We are rebuilding. We've been recovering since probably day 2 following DDAY, in terms of putting the emphasis on the right things. I found MBs two weeks after DDAY, so we've been working the love bank philosophy ever since.

Thanks HHH!
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 06:57 PM
Pepper: I'm honored you have taken the time to look at my thread. I've admired your advice to others and smarts for a long time
Originally Posted by Pepperband
IMO the term "sex addiction" is thrown around far too often.
Agreed about sex addiction label. It's just a little more complicated in our case because his older brother has been diagnosed as such, and what i know of his behavior probably is. It's bad. My WH has had his fair share of problems, but the diagnosis doesn't fit, and since his therapist agrees, I'm actually relieved. Bad boundaries, I can handle with EPs, HNHN and time.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Really, a man such as your WH, uses inappropriate sexual activity to assuage his anxiety and his deep seeded doubts about his manhood.
Exactly. It's pretty sad that all four siblings in his family have serious issues with control, anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, depression. All but one of them are high functioning, successful people, the kind of people that others enjoy and look up to. Just goes to show you what a shiny shell of a personality can hide.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
This has NOTHING to do with YOU or your sex life with WH.
This has been difficult to accept, but then every time I think something stupid, like, I'm not attractive enough, I think of Tiger Woods cheating on his supermodel wife. If she ain't attractive enough, no one is! Ha!

Originally Posted by Pepperband
WH brought his anxiety and doubts into the M as left overs from his first failed M.
Definitely. He married young in his first marriage. The irony is that he had therapy following his divorce to deal with feelings of rejection and anger. Too bad he didn't go far enough then and deal with his own history of two affairs at that point.

Originally Posted by Pepperband
Follow the MB path.
Do the exercises.
Forget about "sex addiction".
Forgotten! And thanks, Pepper! You vets are lifesavers to so many people here. I never felt I had to post before, because WH has followed the path -- therapy and MB once I found it -- from the moment of DDAY. I'm very hopeful.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Originally Posted by SweetPea2011
If he decides to cheat again, it will be with eyes, mind and heart fully aware ... and then nothing will save him.

EGG ZAK LEE

There's simply no more excuses, and it's not that he ever really gave an excuse, other than being a selfish [censored] who hadn't ever learned to deal with his own issues.

My motto for my marriage now is: Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by markos
I'm pretty sure Dr. Harley tends to agree. He says the definition of "addiction" has changed and he uses a much more narrower definition:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb2.cfm?recno=9&sublink=560

I agree, and was only concerned because my WH's older brother has been diagnosed as a sex addict. Is his diagnosis as a sex addict appropriate? I have no idea. His behavior is despicable, and immeasurably worse than my WH's, and I feel that my WH's behavior was bad. But it's not addiction. We're both OK with that, and in fact, I'm glad. No excuses from here on out!
Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 07:13 PM
Mulan: Thanks for your thoughts. One point I'd like to clear up:

[quote] To the Original Poster: Your husband has got to stop excusing his behaviour with "my needs weren't being met so my cheating was justified." No way. That CANNOT be an option. Either he works to create a satisfying marriage with you, or he leaves and gets a divorce so he can BE SINGLE and date all the other SINGLE people he wants. [\quote] He understands fully now that he shares an equal burden in the demise of his first marriage. He knows he wasn't meeting his wife's needs, and therefore, nor she his.
Posted By: Hilsmon Re: Sex addict? - 05/26/11 08:03 PM
My question: Is a man who has had three affairs on two wives, and pursued another woman the night before he's supposed to meet his POSOW "love," a sex addict? (And let's not forget the addiction to porn.)
He keeps entitling himself and he has very, very poor boundaries. Most of your work is right on track by your last response.
I would suggest that he have NO FRIENDS OF THE OP_SEX. None. No chit chat no nothing with any female other than family. I would also make him quit indulging in alcohol unless your in POJA on the whens and wheres.
I would have him find a Job and cease all his travels too if you can.



Posted By: sweetpea2011 Re: Sex addict? - 05/27/11 02:52 PM
Hi Hils: Thanks for your insight.

Originally Posted by Hilsmonemoretime
My question: Is a man who has had three affairs on two wives, and pursued another woman the night before he's supposed to meet his POSOW "love," a sex addict? (And let's not forget the addiction to porn.)
He keeps entitling himself and he has very, very poor boundaries. Most of your work is right on track by your last response.
I would suggest that he have NO FRIENDS OF THE OP_SEX. None. No chit chat no nothing with any female other than family. I would also make him quit indulging in alcohol unless your in POJA on the whens and wheres.
I would have him find a Job and cease all his travels too if you can.


I agree on most counts. RE job: His current job is great, though, and his travel is limited, maybe once or twice a year. EPs include me traveling with him, so I'm OK with it.

The bigger EP is his abusing alcohol. His three affairs and one attempted were on nights of ridiculously heavy drinking. Not sure if you noticed, but I live in Wisconsin. Extremely heavy drinking culture here. WH has always seen himself as a happy "party" guy, and he knows now that he has used alcohol to sooth himself, to gain attention and to help him ignore his moral compass. He also knows that he doesn't NEED alcohol to be and have fun. But it's a huge mind-set change for him. I'm comfortable with EPs; and so far, so good. Time will tell, though.

When we were arguing recently, I threw a: well, if the past six months of being a "good" husband have been so difficult for you, then maybe we shouldn't be married. Later that night, he thoughtfully/sincerely told me that past five months -- after my extreme pain eased a bit -- have been incredible, and, even though he wishes he could erase the impetus for this change in our marriage (the affair), he wants our marriage to be like this for the rest of our lives.

I just want to thank everyone, again, for commenting on my post. I've read many, many stories, and have been amazed at the quality of advice and direction. So, give yourselves a pat on the back y'all for helping those of us who thought our lives were over. There's hope, there's a proven methodology, and it does work!
Posted By: inrecoverynow Re: Sex addict? - 05/27/11 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by sweetpea2011
The bigger EP is his abusing alcohol. His three affairs and one attempted were on nights of ridiculously heavy drinking. Not sure if you noticed, but I live in Wisconsin. Extremely heavy drinking culture here. WH has always seen himself as a happy "party" guy, and he knows now that he has used alcohol to sooth himself, to gain attention and to help him ignore his moral compass. He also knows that he doesn't NEED alcohol to be and have fun. But it's a huge mind-set change for him. I'm comfortable with EPs; and so far, so good. Time will tell, though.

I'm from the same state as you. Yes, there is a drinking culture, but it is escapable. Culture only influences us as much as we let it.





Posted By: KayC Re: Sex addict? - 05/27/11 08:52 PM
I agree with ToughLove, you've been given good advice.

I was married to a sex addict...he had recovered prior to our marriage and I never had any problem with him. I would not say that sex addicts cannot be reformed, I would say they rarely are because they rarely get the help they need and want to put forth the necessary effort. My husband had very strict boundaries for himself and adhered to them very strictly. He would not even watch a love scene on t.v., he'd get up and leave the room...he avoided porn or any undue situation that could be a problem. His entire outlook on sexuality had to change. (It had stemmed from things that occurred in his childhood that created a skewed sexual filter.) He received very intensive therapy and made great effort in his recovery. It is not a one time thing and then you're fine, it's a for life thing. It's not that different than alcoholism. There are groups for it, such as SAA but not every group is good, you just have to try them out and see if they have positive benefit for you.

Since his brother also has a problem it could be there is something in their background that brought this about, whether it's passed down thinking or demonstrated behavior or what. As stated already, it's not our place to assess your husband...not your place either, but to help provide you tools by which you can recover your marriage.

Do not put your brother-in-law's/sister-in-law's situation onto you and your husband, though, your circumstances are unique to each couple, even though there may be some similarities.

You are undoubtedly going to have a hard time letting your husband out of your sight after what he's done to you and your marriage. I would have some pretty strict requirements in place if I were to continue with this marriage...one being he is not to spend the night away from you and there needs to be a whole lot less un-accounted for time apart. That may mean one of you needs to get a different job so your schedules are similar, giving you more time together.

I would meet with the best and go straight to Dr. Harley on this one...

BTW, being a sex addict does not excuse one's behavior...all need to learn boundaries. I think there's a misconception here of what a sex addict truly is.
Here is a site that can answer some questions...
http://www.eugenesaa.com/whatis.html
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