"One of the things my W did admit to was that our sex life was never the same after OM2. I have a difficult time with the fact that for 20+ years my W had a much diminished attraction for me. Perhaps your W regrets that she was not sexually comfortable with you for 20 years. I'm not sure how to give years back to your spouse.
God Bless
Gamma"

This response got me thinking. I wish gamma and others would response.

Maybe a little more context?

What is the question?

I'm confused as well.

The question is in this threads title: SF post A, how long post A it was not right & why?

Gamma raised this point in his post on another thread. That his WW said SF was never the same after OM2.

I would like to know the why's of gamma's story and to know what others that have experienced this can add.

You've experienced it, I believe. How was it for you?

My experience: My FWW and I enjoyed quite a bit of "hysterical bonding" after disclosure of her A. It ended one night when she told me that she was doing it, not because she wanted to, but because she thought it was something I needed. That put me off sex for a bit. Then I remembered that she was all too willing to engage in sex with the OM at her office, in our bed, etc., basically any time they actually had the opportunity. Now we hardly engage in sex at all. I hardly have the desire for it anymore.

I actually think that's a great reason to have sex. I just think that it needs to be done in a way that the lower drive partner enjoys so that they will start to want to keep coming back for more. And of course it also has to be done in an environment where the lower-drive partner's other needs are met; otherwise they will feel resentful that the relationship is not reciprocal.

The aftermath of an affair is a bit different from a lower-drive higher-drive issue.

This is a situation where the BS finds out that they have been unattractive and repulsive to the WS during the time that they found a new infatuation. The BS can think back and remember how the WS seemed to be reluctant to have anything to do with them during the weeks or months of the affair. To be told after that rejection that the WS doesn't want to have sex with the BS is then not a question of drive; after all, the WS had no problem with her drive when it came to OM, as MiM's experience shows.

To be told after the affair that the WS doesn't want to have sex with you is to have it confirmed that the WS is not attracted to you and possible even less so now than before, having experienced something "better".

No, that is not conducive to sexually enjoemnt thereafter, speaking as a BS.

Just an underqualified shot in the dark, but -

I would say that either a BS or a WS that is not engaging in SF, or is having difficulty engaging in SF, or is allowing their difficulties to stop them from engaging in SF is...

NOT WORKING THE PROGRAM.

Not reading the books.

Not. recovering.


20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.


Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

Withholding SF can be the end of a Marriage even when infidelity is not involved. It doesn't get a free pass with infidelity thrown into the mix.

If this was directed at my post, then I wish to be clear that I wasn't advocating anything.

Is it possible that the FWW is depressed? Or still in withdrawal? She may not want SF with anyone, meaning the BS really has nothing to do with it.

It could also be that SF with her AP was exciting just because of the situation, not who she was with, so 'normal' sex is not as exciting now.

It wasn't, Sug. But, now I HAVE to read your post!

He hasn't experienced it - it's just another voyeristic thread he starts.

Not voyeristic. I look for answers. I don't talk much about what happened mainly it happened so long ago. I seek insight.

I'd readily admit that we are not spending 20+ hours of UA time together. However, it seems like we tried to get involved in common activities, but when I expressed more than passing interest (e.g. hiking), she would start making excuses for no longer participating (e.g. "it's too strenuous for her" - this from a person who has no problem spending 6+ hours mall-shopping, leaving her poor H with aching knees trying to keep up). She spends most of her spare time now playing FB games, and most of the time she engages me, it's usually because she wants something from me, not because she wants to spend time with me.

She also has no interest in MB stuff, except to point out where I'm failing the MB approach.



My FWW isn't *actively* refusing to engage in SF. She's a lot more subtle than that. She's told me that "whenever I want to, just let her know and she's willing to take part". However, if I make any overture to her that appears slightly sexual in nature, I usually get a negative comment in response, e.g. "not the best time", "not the best place", "let's wait until later", etc. She's become an expert in turning me off. to the point now that I'm hardly ever turned on at the thought of engaging in sex with her.

However, knowing that she pursued the OM for SF whenever I was not around and was apparently willing to do it anywhere of course makes matters worse.

At this point, I've stopped trying, and basically let things happen when they happen, which is very rarely these days. After a while, it becomes exhausting, irritating and very unappealing, having to dodge an emotional mindfield every time the subject of sex comes up.

Well, brother, I could trade war stories on you with this type of stuff (ie, what our FWW's did for the OM that they wouldn't do for us)... but, I don't really care what she did for him. Really. I don't. As far as I'm concerned, he's a scummy dirtbag that was blessed with a name that sounds like an 8 year old talking about a passing Mustang. He ain't me, never could be.

I prefer to think of things in what I actually bring to the table, and what that s**tball could never hope to.


What you are explaining, MiM, is our marriage Pre-A. I dealt with the absolute minimum from NGB for approximately 8 years. I then entered withdrawal for 2, and then she had an A.

Now, because of her choice, I will never again accept that type of treatment from my wife. Period.

I flatly refuse to ever again be the only one holding this marriage up.

HOWEVER, this doesn't free me from the tenants provided here; I will provide Radical Honesty, and specifically emotional honesty, on a regular basis on my emotional state within the marriage. Brainstorming, PoJA, and action are acceptable - blameshifting and inaction are not.

I supplement this with something I picked up in the Men's thread, I am holding on to my N.U.T.s. Non-negotiable, unalterable terms; I will not live in a loveless, sexless marriage.

All that being said; if SF is lacking now, it is my fault. I cannot say that I am particularly turned off, but I'm definitely not... craving(?) as much as I used to. To the point that 2 weeks can pass before my drive kicks in for me to initiate - and that only happens if there are continuous life circumstances that get in the way.

I would say that the "F" is really in SF. To the point, NGB is usually the one requesting, not me.


However, for her this creates an issue because she feels that I have a lack of desire. Being totally honest, it's probably true. I just don't use that as an excuse to withhold, and once engaged, I certainly don't dwell on any resentments.


Aaaaaaaaaaanyway... enough brain puke.

TR,

One of the things my W did admit to was that our sex life was never the same after OM2. I have a difficult time with the fact that for 20+ years my W had a much diminished attraction for me.

You asked about the hows and whys of my comment,

My W is extremely reluctant to discuss anything about OM2 and the answers I've gotten over the years tend to conflict with each other and are filled with huge gaps. My W also has a difficult time admitting to fault and sees herself as a moral and upright person. To her cheating is a major sin because she was always disgusted by her Fathers serial cheating on her Mother. As a result I believe she has felt guilt for our entire marriage because she hid the truth from me.

I think a second factor is that the comments she has made were often about how good looking and in shape OM2 was, and in truth he was more in her league of attractiveness.

From a physical standpoint my W stopped kissing me passionately after OM2, and nearly all sex was initiated by me from that time. I would almost say that our sex life was 95% sustained by my attraction to my W.

The affair with OM2 lasted from before we were married and I think ended when my OM2 stopped working with her about 1 years or so into our marriage. She wanted to divorce me around that time, but after some consideration she realized OM2 had nothing to offer her and really didn't want her.

I think because our Marriage began that way it has cast a long shadow.

Now after my finding MB, my W is very happy with our marriage, and is even more reluctant to come forth with details. So for the time being I'm just tracking down OM2 and a friend of hers she confessed to.

It's not what I want to do to get to the truth but it is the only path that will lead me there.

God Bless
Gamma

I don't think you will get the truth from the OM. Contacting OM may not only get you lies but break NC between OM and WW because the OM may call to ask WW what facts she told you so their stories match.

I understand you wanting questions answered. I have been left over thirty years wondering. Now I tell myself what's the point. Sometimes telling myself that works.

Been about 8 months and not right here.

TR,

Contacting OM may not only get you lies

That's fine get enough lies and the truth is the only thing NOT said, more data is better data.

but break NC between OM and WW

Already broke, think about 5 or so years age, when we saw him and his W and kid. He exhibited very protective body language around his child.

One downside I do see to contacting OM is that I will likely have to agree not to retaliate,and I will honor that agreement.

OM may call to ask WW what facts she told you so their stories match.

Good, that's an important piece of evidence in itself. Besides which the chaos of trying to get their stories straight will creat more confusion.

I understand you wanting questions answered. I have been left over thirty years wondering. Now I tell myself what's the point. Sometimes telling myself that works.

Are you still with your W?

God Bless
Gamma

yes

TheRoad,

And how do you feel about your W now? Are you temped to D? How does your W feel about her A?

Did you ever speak with the OM or OMW?

God Bless
Gamma

Never got his identity.

So never had contact with OM.

Great wife. She's not happy she did it. Maybe she's more wished it never happened from my view. Refuses to talk about it. Conversations that took place were so brief that never got into what she felt, thought, then, afterwards.

No reason to D.

Wife minimized story. Every four or five years for twenty five years something would cause that time to be recalled and W would throw out a few answers then not talk anymore.

So each time I learnt that the extent of what took place was more then I had been told before. If you did the calculations you concluded this happend about five times.

Pre MB days.

TheRoad,

Never got his identity. So never had contact with OM.

How on earth do you live with that? Do you even know if OM was married at the time, how do you live with these implicit lies.

God Bless
Gamma

Maybe this is why the questions never have gone away. Tired off to sleep.

Oh. Road. This tells me volumes about your posts. (I'm not saying that's totally a bad thing, don't get me wrong.)

What's the chance your wife would come here?

No Chance.

TheRoad,

I kinda get that your W would never come here, I showed my W this site and she just didn't get it. She does mention this site every so often in her prayers however, so go figure.

With my W she is very much about protecting OM2, perhaps even more so because he is younger than her, she even still sees him as a good person. Generally too she is VERY concerned about being in the wrong and has a difficult time admitting to fault. Do you think your W is working along these lines?

I think because I ignored/was stupid about what was going on back then, and for years later buried my feelings, it fixed my W's view of that time period. It become ideal an unrealized chance for perfection, but a very happy time at the least. I also think the fact that the A seemed to have no effect on me reinforced those feelings.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, why WWs won't disclose the what why who where when and how.

They can feel bad about what happened and don't want to remember, face it, admit to it.

They are protecting them self.

They are protecting the OM.

They think they are protecting the BH.

Maybe remembering recalling telling about the affair is a form of breaking NC. Their memories trigger the addictive feelings for the OM. So another reason for the WW to surpress their memories.

So the WW surpresses these memories till they are blocked. Easy for them to do because the matter was closd by them. They have no unanwsered questions always probing their minds to find probale answers.

They stayed with the BH, their needs are being met, the don't need a OM any more, meeting their BH needs, why can't their BH just be quiet and be happy is what goes through their mind.

WWs I think feel that their not leaving why does the BH insist on rocking the boat?

I guess it comes down to what is easier. Tell or not tell.

TheRoad,

They stayed with the BH, their needs are being met, the don't need a OM any more, meeting their BH needs, why can't their BH just be quiet and be happy is what goes through their mind.

Nice compact summary, I think it's the lack of empathy or understanding that keeps me in the game. One thing she has never done is apologize. If truth is like food then our W's keep trying to feed us by giving us clothing.

WWs I think feel that their not leaving why does the BH insist on rocking the boat?

Lol my W's version of that is, "but I stayed with you", talk about getting punched in the gut.

God Bless
Gamma

Respect to the two of you. If my FWW didn't divulge who the OM was at the time of D-Day, we would have likely ended up separated or divorced.

Nothing to respect. Wife is a great wife and mom. Just that her refusing to tell me about that time is what she thinks is the best way to go.

I think she senses a partial wall. But her need to not talk is the same as mine to hear.

Thing is if she was able to provide me with all that I wanted to know I don't know how it would affect me. Then what if she told me more then I wanted to know? Can't un ask, can't un tell, can't un hear.

I would hate to find out everything when I hit 80 and kick the bucket at 81 without having enough life left to process the information.

Is it not knowing how I would react keeping me from pushing from what happened, most likely.

MIM,

Sorry to confuse, but I "know" with my estimates on probability..

WHO(OM2) 95%, could also be a 2nd OM2.2 at the same workplace strong WW body language about that one, but was only a one time thing so she uses a special rule to erase that one.

WHAT 5%, won't admit to anything it wasn't an emotional affair it wasn't a physical affair, umm so what was it?!

WHERE 65%, I think it was mostly at work, but I know she was at OMs place too, not sure they would have bothered to drive to our place.

WHEN 75%, I remember the key dates with reasonable accuracy.

WHY 45%, she gives me contradictory reasons every time she speaks of why.

HOW 25%. Since she never speaks about WHAT this one is mostly unknown too.

Funny thing too, on Monday I figured out where OM2 lives for the longest while I had an address, but could NEVER see any life there. On Monday though I noticed signs of one of his hobbies that had slipped my mind, this was the key to finding him on the internet, hobby related sites, which allowed me to confirm his address. I still have to figure out which vehicle is his.

Best to visit when his W is home or not?

God Bless
Gamma