Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
TheRoad Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
"One of the things my W did admit to was that our sex life was never the same after OM2. I have a difficult time with the fact that for 20+ years my W had a much diminished attraction for me. Perhaps your W regrets that she was not sexually comfortable with you for 20 years. I'm not sure how to give years back to your spouse.
God Bless
Gamma"

This response got me thinking. I wish gamma and others would response.

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,495
Originally Posted by TheRoad
"One of the things my W did admit to was that our sex life was never the same after OM2. I have a difficult time with the fact that for 20+ years my W had a much diminished attraction for me. Perhaps your W regrets that she was not sexually comfortable with you for 20 years. I'm not sure how to give years back to your spouse.
God Bless
Gamma"

This response got me thinking. I wish gamma and others would response.

Maybe a little more context?


Celtic Voyager
Married 22+ years
3 young adult children


"A story of me"
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
What is the question?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
I'm confused as well.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
TheRoad Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What is the question?

The question is in this threads title: SF post A, how long post A it was not right & why?

Gamma raised this point in his post on another thread. That his WW said SF was never the same after OM2.

I would like to know the why's of gamma's story and to know what others that have experienced this can add.

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
You've experienced it, I believe. How was it for you?


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
My experience: My FWW and I enjoyed quite a bit of "hysterical bonding" after disclosure of her A. It ended one night when she told me that she was doing it, not because she wanted to, but because she thought it was something I needed. That put me off sex for a bit. Then I remembered that she was all too willing to engage in sex with the OM at her office, in our bed, etc., basically any time they actually had the opportunity. Now we hardly engage in sex at all. I hardly have the desire for it anymore.



ManInMotion
===========
(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 15,806
Likes: 7
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
It ended one night when she told me that she was doing it, not because she wanted to, but because she thought it was something I needed. That put me off sex for a bit.

I actually think that's a great reason to have sex. I just think that it needs to be done in a way that the lower drive partner enjoys so that they will start to want to keep coming back for more. And of course it also has to be done in an environment where the lower-drive partner's other needs are met; otherwise they will feel resentful that the relationship is not reciprocal.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by markos
[quote=ManInMotion]I actually think that's a great reason to have sex. I just think that it needs to be done in a way that the lower drive partner enjoys so that they will start to want to keep coming back for more. And of course it also has to be done in an environment where the lower-drive partner's other needs are met; otherwise they will feel resentful that the relationship is not reciprocal.
The aftermath of an affair is a bit different from a lower-drive higher-drive issue.

This is a situation where the BS finds out that they have been unattractive and repulsive to the WS during the time that they found a new infatuation. The BS can think back and remember how the WS seemed to be reluctant to have anything to do with them during the weeks or months of the affair. To be told after that rejection that the WS doesn't want to have sex with the BS is then not a question of drive; after all, the WS had no problem with her drive when it came to OM, as MiM's experience shows.

To be told after the affair that the WS doesn't want to have sex with you is to have it confirmed that the WS is not attracted to you and possible even less so now than before, having experienced something "better".

No, that is not conducive to sexually enjoemnt thereafter, speaking as a BS.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
Just an underqualified shot in the dark, but -

I would say that either a BS or a WS that is not engaging in SF, or is having difficulty engaging in SF, or is allowing their difficulties to stop them from engaging in SF is...

NOT WORKING THE PROGRAM.

Not reading the books.

Not. recovering.


20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.


Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

Withholding SF can be the end of a Marriage even when infidelity is not involved. It doesn't get a free pass with infidelity thrown into the mix.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,458
Likes: 9
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Just an underqualified shot in the dark, but -

I would say that either a BS or a WS that is not engaging in SF, or is having difficulty engaging in SF, or is allowing their difficulties to stop them from engaging in SF is...

NOT WORKING THE PROGRAM.

Not reading the books.

Not. recovering.


20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.


Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

Withholding SF can be the end of a Marriage even when infidelity is not involved. It doesn't get a free pass with infidelity thrown into the mix.
If this was directed at my post, then I wish to be clear that I wasn't advocating anything.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 436
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 436
Is it possible that the FWW is depressed? Or still in withdrawal? She may not want SF with anyone, meaning the BS really has nothing to do with it.

It could also be that SF with her AP was exciting just because of the situation, not who she was with, so 'normal' sex is not as exciting now.


Me = BH
DDay Dec. 2010
D filed Oct 2011 (by me)
D final 3/16/12
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Just an underqualified shot in the dark, but -

I would say that either a BS or a WS that is not engaging in SF, or is having difficulty engaging in SF, or is allowing their difficulties to stop them from engaging in SF is...

NOT WORKING THE PROGRAM.

Not reading the books.

Not. recovering.


20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.


Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

Withholding SF can be the end of a Marriage even when infidelity is not involved. It doesn't get a free pass with infidelity thrown into the mix.
If this was directed at my post, then I wish to be clear that I wasn't advocating anything.

It wasn't, Sug. But, now I HAVE to read your post!


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
B
Member
Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 7,464
Originally Posted by SugarCane
You've experienced it, I believe. How was it for you?

He hasn't experienced it - it's just another voyeristic thread he starts.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
TheRoad Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Originally Posted by bigkahuna
Originally Posted by SugarCane
You've experienced it, I believe. How was it for you?

He hasn't experienced it - it's just another voyeristic thread he starts.

Not voyeristic. I look for answers. I don't talk much about what happened mainly it happened so long ago. I seek insight.

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.

I'd readily admit that we are not spending 20+ hours of UA time together. However, it seems like we tried to get involved in common activities, but when I expressed more than passing interest (e.g. hiking), she would start making excuses for no longer participating (e.g. "it's too strenuous for her" - this from a person who has no problem spending 6+ hours mall-shopping, leaving her poor H with aching knees trying to keep up). She spends most of her spare time now playing FB games, and most of the time she engages me, it's usually because she wants something from me, not because she wants to spend time with me.

She also has no interest in MB stuff, except to point out where I'm failing the MB approach.


Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

My FWW isn't *actively* refusing to engage in SF. She's a lot more subtle than that. She's told me that "whenever I want to, just let her know and she's willing to take part". However, if I make any overture to her that appears slightly sexual in nature, I usually get a negative comment in response, e.g. "not the best time", "not the best place", "let's wait until later", etc. She's become an expert in turning me off. to the point now that I'm hardly ever turned on at the thought of engaging in sex with her.

However, knowing that she pursued the OM for SF whenever I was not around and was apparently willing to do it anywhere of course makes matters worse.

At this point, I've stopped trying, and basically let things happen when they happen, which is very rarely these days. After a while, it becomes exhausting, irritating and very unappealing, having to dodge an emotional mindfield every time the subject of sex comes up.


ManInMotion
===========
(see "MiM's Story" for more details)
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
H
Member
Offline
Member
H
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 5,121
Likes: 1
Originally Posted by ManInMotion
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
20+ hours of UA time + Meeting of ancillary EN's + avoiding LB's = rock-solid SF.

I'd readily admit that we are not spending 20+ hours of UA time together. However, it seems like we tried to get involved in common activities, but when I expressed more than passing interest (e.g. hiking), she would start making excuses for no longer participating (e.g. "it's too strenuous for her" - this from a person who has no problem spending 6+ hours mall-shopping, leaving her poor H with aching knees trying to keep up). She spends most of her spare time now playing FB games, and most of the time she engages me, it's usually because she wants something from me, not because she wants to spend time with me.

She also has no interest in MB stuff, except to point out where I'm failing the MB approach.


Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
Each side of the coin has their own individual reasons, but actively refusing to engage in one of the 4 intimate EN's is a huge misstep in marital recovery.

My FWW isn't *actively* refusing to engage in SF. She's a lot more subtle than that. She's told me that "whenever I want to, just let her know and she's willing to take part". However, if I make any overture to her that appears slightly sexual in nature, I usually get a negative comment in response, e.g. "not the best time", "not the best place", "let's wait until later", etc. She's become an expert in turning me off. to the point now that I'm hardly ever turned on at the thought of engaging in sex with her.

However, knowing that she pursued the OM for SF whenever I was not around and was apparently willing to do it anywhere of course makes matters worse.

At this point, I've stopped trying, and basically let things happen when they happen, which is very rarely these days. After a while, it becomes exhausting, irritating and very unappealing, having to dodge an emotional mindfield every time the subject of sex comes up.


Well, brother, I could trade war stories on you with this type of stuff (ie, what our FWW's did for the OM that they wouldn't do for us)... but, I don't really care what she did for him. Really. I don't. As far as I'm concerned, he's a scummy dirtbag that was blessed with a name that sounds like an 8 year old talking about a passing Mustang. He ain't me, never could be.

I prefer to think of things in what I actually bring to the table, and what that s**tball could never hope to.


What you are explaining, MiM, is our marriage Pre-A. I dealt with the absolute minimum from NGB for approximately 8 years. I then entered withdrawal for 2, and then she had an A.

Now, because of her choice, I will never again accept that type of treatment from my wife. Period.

I flatly refuse to ever again be the only one holding this marriage up.

HOWEVER, this doesn't free me from the tenants provided here; I will provide Radical Honesty, and specifically emotional honesty, on a regular basis on my emotional state within the marriage. Brainstorming, PoJA, and action are acceptable - blameshifting and inaction are not.

I supplement this with something I picked up in the Men's thread, I am holding on to my N.U.T.s. Non-negotiable, unalterable terms; I will not live in a loveless, sexless marriage.

All that being said; if SF is lacking now, it is my fault. I cannot say that I am particularly turned off, but I'm definitely not... craving(?) as much as I used to. To the point that 2 weeks can pass before my drive kicks in for me to initiate - and that only happens if there are continuous life circumstances that get in the way.

I would say that the "F" is really in SF. To the point, NGB is usually the one requesting, not me.


However, for her this creates an issue because she feels that I have a lack of desire. Being totally honest, it's probably true. I just don't use that as an excuse to withhold, and once engaged, I certainly don't dwell on any resentments.


Aaaaaaaaaaanyway... enough brain puke.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
TR,

One of the things my W did admit to was that our sex life was never the same after OM2. I have a difficult time with the fact that for 20+ years my W had a much diminished attraction for me.

You asked about the hows and whys of my comment,

My W is extremely reluctant to discuss anything about OM2 and the answers I've gotten over the years tend to conflict with each other and are filled with huge gaps. My W also has a difficult time admitting to fault and sees herself as a moral and upright person. To her cheating is a major sin because she was always disgusted by her Fathers serial cheating on her Mother. As a result I believe she has felt guilt for our entire marriage because she hid the truth from me.

I think a second factor is that the comments she has made were often about how good looking and in shape OM2 was, and in truth he was more in her league of attractiveness.

From a physical standpoint my W stopped kissing me passionately after OM2, and nearly all sex was initiated by me from that time. I would almost say that our sex life was 95% sustained by my attraction to my W.

The affair with OM2 lasted from before we were married and I think ended when my OM2 stopped working with her about 1 years or so into our marriage. She wanted to divorce me around that time, but after some consideration she realized OM2 had nothing to offer her and really didn't want her.

I think because our Marriage began that way it has cast a long shadow.

Now after my finding MB, my W is very happy with our marriage, and is even more reluctant to come forth with details. So for the time being I'm just tracking down OM2 and a friend of hers she confessed to.

It's not what I want to do to get to the truth but it is the only path that will lead me there.

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Gamma; 10/21/11 06:03 PM.
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
TheRoad Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
I don't think you will get the truth from the OM. Contacting OM may not only get you lies but break NC between OM and WW because the OM may call to ask WW what facts she told you so their stories match.

I understand you wanting questions answered. I have been left over thirty years wondering. Now I tell myself what's the point. Sometimes telling myself that works.

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
N
Member
Offline
Member
N
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 67
Been about 8 months and not right here.


BH (Me)-30
FWW (BostonLover)-29
Married 7/2004
D-Day 14&16 Feb, 2011
Starting Recovery
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 109 guests, and 51 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
cbm800, Dodo M, Kingpin, MikaylaVaux, I.P.
71,728 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,546
Posts2,322,790
Members71,729
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5