Good Morning,
First i want to say, this is the first time i have visited this forum, and i am so sorry there are so many here compared to other forums, both in post and currently viewing. It is very sad, and i am sorry for all.

I currently have a thread in the marriage 101:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2529752#Post2529752

I just posted there, but here is the quick sitch and i am wondering what i should do given where i am at now.


We have been seperated for almost 15 months now. About a month ago, my wife expressed her desire to reconconcile. Then a week later became distant again. This was when her parents returned from a trip. She has stayed with them the whole time.

I have montitored her email and phone records to see if there was any posssible affair going on.

nothing.

Then on Dec 20th i found email with her lawyer that she has in fact filed for divorce.

Then wednesay night i seen alot of text activity and a phone call yesterday, and it is in fact an older man.

My guess is she feels since she has filed it is ok?

Do i start the exposure porcess? What would be my next step.

She has also decided to send my stepson off to a military school 5 hours away. He is a straight A student now and has no business going to that place. We also have a 2 year old son together.

I have been trying and i have been faithful the whole time not missing any parenting time with my son nor child support.

Any thoughts please?

Ruikee

Could you please give us a quick run down on how you have followed the MB's plan since coming here.

That would be helpful since your other thread is quite lengthy.

nESRE

Basically i have been in Plan A for 14 months. I have been on the show 3 times now. I have been covertly verbally abusive at times before the seperation. I have been in therapy for that weekly for 13 months and am also part of a group called MEVAC for the same amount of time. I have not had an angry outburts in about 11 months and it feels great that i have control over that. Even when provoked by my WW.

Ruikee

14 month plan A with her living elswhere.

Is that right?

With your stepson and 2 year old right?

nESRE

14 month plan A, her living with her parents that is correct.

14 year old stepson, whom i raised since he was 5, and a two year old son together.

Correct.

Ruikee

There is another poster on here who is familiar with the group you referenced MEVAC.

Not sure of the name though because I did not follow his sitch closely.

Maybe someone else knows him. It was something ...Turkey

Hope that helps

nESRE

Yep i know him very well. I am very familiar, but that doesnt answer my question.

Basically, if my wife has in fact filed for divorce, and i am trying to save my marriage, and have been in plan A, and just recently found out she may be starting an affair. what do i do? Do i expose it?

Ruikee, I would not expose it. She has apparently moved on. She has not left your marriage for an affair, she has left because she is done. Since you have been separated over a year you might even get into big legal trouble for spying on her and end up with a stalking charge.

Thanks Melody Lane, it is very sad to hear that but you are probably right.

Thanks for all your help.

Why do you think your Plan A was effective?

Ruikee,
You can always pray to God

You said about a month ago there might have been a "thawing" in her view of your potential future together. Can you give us some details on what was said/done at that time?

Are you still in regular/cooperative communication with her?

I would NOT (obviously) let on that you know about the dissolution action, or the potential OM, for the present. I would suggest you find a way to discuss that recent rapprochement period, and work around to expressing hope that it could be continued/expanded.

At best, it might incent her to reciprocate. At worst, she'll feel empowered enough to reveal her D plans, or even hit you with both that, and the situation with OM. Seriously, fourteen months of Plan A (even Plan A at a distance) has got to lead to a conclusion one way or the other fairly soon.

If the only "recovery" to your situation is going to be dissolution, then waiting another XX months (for ?) would serve no purpose.

I am not sure what you mean, obviously it was not effective if she has filed for divorce. Strange part is she has been telling me that she has all along.....

Thanks, i am in prayer twice a day. Every day, even fasting 2-3 days sometimes. I know he hears my prayer. Unfortunately God does give us all free will.

Thank you

Well it all started when our son was ill, she called to check on him. I told her i was taking him to the doctor in the am. She started talking about being obedient to God. She is tired of living with regrets. Both our boys need a father in their lives. She hates living with her mother.
Then she asked if she could go with me to the doctor, i said of course and we agreed i would pick her up. She shared all kinds of stuff, my heart has really softened for you in the last few weeks. How mean my stepsons father has been to her and him. Her mother suggesting my stepson be sent to military school.


Are you still in regular/cooperative communication with her.

Yes, but only about our son. As soon as her parents came back in town, she became distant again. Always lashing out in anger when i ask about our son. Blaming me for things i can not control. IE sitter being closed for a week, why didnt i tell her. even though the sitter sent out a notice. and had it posted on the sign in sheet.

I would NOT (obviously) let on that you know about the dissolution action, or the potential OM, for the present. I would suggest you find a way to discuss that recent rapprochement period, and work around to expressing hope that it could be continued/expanded.

I did at one point a few weeks ago, and she was very bitter, she said she said some things she shouldnt have and believes there is no way to solve our issues.

At best, it might incent her to reciprocate. At worst, she'll feel empowered enough to reveal her D plans, or even hit you with both that, and the situation with OM. Seriously, fourteen months of Plan A (even Plan A at a distance) has got to lead to a conclusion one way or the other fairly soon.

If the only "recovery" to your situation is going to be dissolution, then waiting another XX months (for ?) would serve no purpose.

I assume you are suggesting i give up? not sure where you are going. I do beleive in a covenant marriage. and I am at peace with remaining faithful and standing. Pouring out my love to my son and setting an example for him.

Please elaborate, i am strong, and can handle anything that may be said.

Please forgive me for not knowing how to do multiple quotes.

Could you maybe put the things that others said in quotes? It's a bit confusing to figure out what lines are your words and which are others when reading a longer post such as this. It could just be me.

Okay, just because your WW filed for a D, doesn't mean that your Plan A wasn't effective. If I am remembering correctly, Plan A ALONE works about 15% of the time. And Plan B is less effective if done after a poor Plan A.

Do you need any help in implementing a good Plan A?

I assume you are suggesting i give up?

No, far from it. But she has some freedom of actions that you should be prepared for. You live in a culture that does not enforce the lifetime commitment that you would personally want to follow in your own marriage. It's not you giving up that I'm recommending; it's recognizing the possibility that she has given up that would be important now. Your actions would be dependent on hers, initially, and you should plan accordingly.

Yes i could use all the help i can get.

Have you already identified her top 5 ENs?

Have you read the thread about the carrot and stick of Plan A by Pepperband?

How long do you Plan on being in Plan A before entering Plan B?

Ruikee,

I am sorry for all you have been going through. If I understand you correctly, you and your W have been physically separated/living apart for over a year and you have been (somehow) monitoring her cellphone records and email for evidence of an affair. Until recently, you found nothing suspicious but lately have uncovered evidence that she's involved/communicating with an OM and has contacted a lawyer to file for divorce. You have been doing a long-distance Plan A throughout and want/wanted to recover your marriage. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming not there's a few points to make here.

1) It may not matter much at this point, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume that her affair (and that is what it is, no excuses about being separated or "in the process of divorce" are tolerated here) is new. With living apart it would be extremely easy for your WW to open new email accounts or get another cell line, etc. It would also be extremely easy for her to physically see someone else too. Simply, it is tough enough to verify NC (or no affair) with an uncooperative spouse from the same home. There is just no way that you could verify it for certain long-distance w/o access to other communocation venues she could easily obtain w/o your knowledge. So, you could be right but you could also very easily be wrong and she could have been having an affair (or a previous one) all along.

2) Could you tell us something about how the two of you came to be separated? You admit that you had a problem with anger and verbal abuse (and to your credit have worked on that), but was there anything else going on? What were the reasons she gave for leaving? How did it come about? And why was your stepson (HER bio son) left with YOU? Seems strange for a woman to leave her son with an estranged H she feels is abusive and has an anger problem...

3) I ask the above because it isn't uncommon for a WW to physically leave, use the "bad husband/bad marriage" justification, and give the "I just need some space/need to clear my head" excuse, all while she is having a clandestine affair she desperately doesn't want known or revealed. It is also not uncommon for a WW to cake-eat, be ambivalent, and do the "warm-up/cool-down" cycle with her unknowing-BH while she is waiting for her OM to declare himself. In other words, waiting to see if her OM is going to stay with her, leave his wife, offer her some sort of long-term commitment, etc.

4) I agree than Plan A alone--especially w/o exposure--is rarely effective in ending a WW's affair if the OM is reciprocating (and why wouldn't he? He's getting no-strings-attached sex). It's also really, really hard to effectively Plan A--affair or no affair--when a couple is separated. You aren't seeing or talking to each other much so the departed-spouse allows very little opportunity for the left-behind-spouse to deposit love units or demonstrate anti-lovebuster changes. If your W truly left for over a year w/o an OM in the picture to be exposed, I think you did the very best you could with a very bad deal of cards you had to play. She didn't give you much to work with sadly.

If she was indeed having an affair all along, it's probably too late for exposure to do much good. She's already covered her tracks and got all her ducks in a row with her "new relationship" by now. And if she has actually filed for divorce, new affair or old one, she's enacting her plan to move on with OM. I'm sorry but I would lawyer up, fight very hard for your best financial/child settlement, and go dark. Maybe you will get lucky (WWs tend to be VERY stubborn) and she will change her mind to give your marriage another chance if confronted with the prospect of a long and difficult legal battle.

I am very sorry and wish you the best.

yes i have identified her top 5 EN, we did the questionaiire a while back and i still had it.

I have read that thread but its been some time, i will read again.

Well Plan B is difficult with having a 2 year old son. Please give me some advice here.

Blessings and Love,

thank you and please accept my apologies for not knowing how to multiple quote, i will do my best.

I am sorry for all you have been going through. If I understand you correctly, you and your W have been physically separated/living apart for over a year and you have been (somehow) monitoring her cellphone records and email for evidence of an affair. Until recently, you found nothing suspicious but lately have uncovered evidence that she's involved/communicating with an OM and has contacted a lawyer to file for divorce. You have been doing a long-distance Plan A throughout and want/wanted to recover your marriage. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming not there's a few points to make here.

This is all true, yes long distance plan a wanting to recover my marriage.



1) It may not matter much at this point, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume that her affair (and that is what it is, no excuses about being separated or "in the process of divorce" are tolerated here) is new. With living apart it would be extremely easy for your WW to open new email accounts or get another cell line, etc. It would also be extremely easy for her to physically see someone else too. Simply, it is tough enough to verify NC (or no affair) with an uncooperative spouse from the same home. There is just no way that you could verify it for certain long-distance w/o access to other communocation venues she could easily obtain w/o your knowledge. So, you could be right but you could also very easily be wrong and she could have been having an affair (or a previous one) all along.

I agree totally, however my wife is not technically savy. she calls me occassionally to ask questions about her computer etc. I am a network engineer for the Govt, and i have access to many tools. Not disagreeing but odds are against it.

2) Could you tell us something about how the two of you came to be separated? You admit that you had a problem with anger and verbal abuse (and to your credit have worked on that), but was there anything else going on? What were the reasons she gave for leaving? How did it come about? And why was your stepson (HER bio son) left with YOU? Seems strange for a woman to leave her son with an estranged H she feels is abusive and has an anger problem...

We had an arguement about a dirty baby bottle when i got up to feed the baby one morning. She did not leave her son with me but we have spent time together on several occasions. We had alot of stress at the time, new puppy for the boys, moved my mother down from Cleveland, she was about to be homeless. And she was just getting back to work after being home for a year with the baby.

3) I ask the above because it isn't uncommon for a WW to physically leave, use the "bad husband/bad marriage" justification, and give the "I just need some space/need to clear my head" excuse, all while she is having a clandestine affair she desperately doesn't want known or revealed. It is also not uncommon for a WW to cake-eat, be ambivalent, and do the "warm-up/cool-down" cycle with her unknowing-BH while she is waiting for her OM to declare himself. In other words, waiting to see if her OM is going to stay with her, leave his wife, offer her some sort of long-term commitment, etc.

yes I agree with it all, but there was no sign of it at all. Her parents confirmed there was no one else not too long ago, but they could cover her as well.

4) I agree than Plan A alone--especially w/o exposure--is rarely effective in ending a WW's affair if the OM is reciprocating (and why wouldn't he? He's getting no-strings-attached sex). It's also really, really hard to effectively Plan A--affair or no affair--when a couple is separated. You aren't seeing or talking to each other much so the departed-spouse allows very little opportunity for the left-behind-spouse to deposit love units or demonstrate anti-lovebuster changes. If your W truly left for over a year w/o an OM in the picture to be exposed, I think you did the very best you could with a very bad deal of cards you had to play. She didn't give you much to work with sadly.

If she was indeed having an affair all along, it's probably too late for exposure to do much good. She's already covered her tracks and got all her ducks in a row with her "new relationship" by now. And if she has actually filed for divorce, new affair or old one, she's enacting her plan to move on with OM. I'm sorry but I would lawyer up, fight very hard for your best financial/child settlement, and go dark. Maybe you will get lucky (WWs tend to be VERY stubborn) and she will change her mind to give your marriage another chance if confronted with the prospect of a long and difficult legal battle.

Thanks for this advice. I have recently filed for custody due to neglect in giving our son his meds, sending her son off to a military school based on her mothers advice. And some other decisions she is making that are off the wall.



I am very sorry and wish you the best.

R,

Don't worry about the quoting...I could understand you well by the paragraph and color changes you made. BTW, you make multiple quotes by placing "quote" at the start and "/quote" at the end, each in [brackets], of every body of text you want to separately quote. As to your responses...

1) Your W may not be very "technically savvy" but virtually anyone has the intellectual capacity to go to yahoo, hotmail, or gmail and create a new email account. Anyone with basic computer experience can easily do it. Likewise, virtually anyone with $50 can go buy a prepaid, disposable cellphone. All the more easy if she is not living with you for you to see/discover it. You may very well be correct about your past no-affair assumptions, but I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time a BH here was surprised and shocked to later learn the extent and mechanisms his WW went to stay in contact with her affair-partner. Cheaters tend to be very resourceful when they want/need to be.

2) No offense, but I seriously doubt that your W left her marital home and moved away from her H for over a year because of an arguement over a baby bottle and "stress" over family, job, and a puppy. Those sound like typical life events that affect everyone at various points. WSs often point to and even provoke arguements, confrontations, and stresses as a pretext and cover for leaving to pursue an affair-already-underway. Very few wives leave their husband and move out of their home purely because of financial strain or a verbal dispute. If they leave and/or threaten divorce, most often they have an OM on the side they're running to. Shelters and counselors' offices are full of women with violent/very abusive husbands/boyfriends (with have every legitimate reason to leave the relationship) who go back in short order. Even Dr. H wrote that he has had trouble getting wives to leave dangerous/unsafe husbands. Bottom line--and no offense--for your W to move out and stay out for a year+ probably means that she had an OM or something much more serious was going on between you.

3) I wouldn't place any stock in what your in-laws say. You can bet the farm that your W scapegoated and villified you to them as explanation for why she left her marraige to move back in with her folks. Most family members are going to take their relative's side at face value. If she had been having an affair all along (maybe, maybe not), do you really think they would tell you? Do you think that she (your W) would even admit it to them right away? Again, could be right but just as easily could be wrong.

The above issues are admittedly just academic at this point unfortunately. I think you are doing the right thing--all you can do really if she's hired an attorney--by lawyering up and defending yourself. I don't know what you can do about your stepson since he isn't legally yours (unless you adopted him), but you can fight for your bio son and parental rights. Please don't play the vindictive game (often done by WWs vs BHs) of falsely claiming "neglect" or "abuse" in an attempt to tear a child away from a divorcing parent. Those are pretty serious charges (the unfit-parent thing) so don't make them to get even with someone; only if they truly are necessary for the well-being of a minor.

Very sorry again...wish there was a better outcome here.

SDC,
Thanks, i agree with all you have said. Funny thing happened yesterday. The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days. We figured out how they came into contact. Another teacher she works with, her husband, also very abusive, is good friends with this guy.

She feels so sorry because when she left, she told him to never get involved with someone with children. He abused her children as well. She highly recommend that i do whatever i can to keep my son out of the situation as much as possible. She wanted to call my wife and tell her that this man has no business being around a woman with children, and she is not angry about her seperation from him.

I appreciate all the wisdom on not taking action in revenge. I do check my heart for my motives before. I have been concerned for sometime about the neglect.

When i pick up my son, his finger nails are always very long and dirty. When he needs a hair cut, i always take him for it. And of course the medication, which is serious. A few times he was sent over with an overdue diaper. She counts on my 74 year old father in law who has had 2 heart attacks, one within the past 6 months, to drive him and pick him up from the sitter. So you can see my concern for our son.

Thanks again for your help, wisdom and insight.


R

I agree. The colour changes are a great help. Thank you.

This guy is a real loser. WEll, no surprise there. WS's ALWAYS AFFAIR DOWN.

Do what you need to to protect your son. When OMW wanted to contact your WW, did you give her the number? I would have. Your WW will take it as a woman scorned, but it will put some daggers in their affair, and you didn't do it.

She said if there was anything she could do to help she would. She told me in her eyes, my wife still does love me. She said she almost feels committed to helping us get back together. I know a woman scorned would not say these things.

It looks like you are telling me to expose the affair? I sense that somehow it would push her away from me now, maybe not if the OMW did it?

Ruikee. Your W has been living apart (long distance) from you for over a year. She has filed for divorce. She is involved with violent abusive OM which has been verified by OMW. If your WW gets her divorce, she will be free to set up house with OM AND your baby.


Why is this even a question? Why would you hesitate to expose this for even one second? You are gambling with your baby's safety. Tell her parents. Invite them to talk with OMW. Stop worrying about pushing her away...protect your kid from her.

So i am receiving conflicting wisdom at least to me.

I agree an affair is an affair. We are still married "legally" and the OM is still "legally" married.

So exposure is warranted to protect my son even though she has filed for divorce? How do you go about it, Emails? I read on when to expose but i do not see one on the procedure.

Don't you think it would be in your son's best interest to have people know that she is involved with OM who has a domestic violence history? Do you think that at least her parents would be alarmed enough to help stop this?

Ruikee. If my H had been separated long distance from me for over a year, I would not be worried about pushing him away further if he was involved with a violent person who might also harm my child since he had custody.

What is your priority here? Is the M more important than a baby's welfare?

Her mother sounds quite wise to me. At least one son will be protected from the lack of sound judgement.

Ruikee

My advice to you is you better lawyer up before making any moves.


nESRE

Hey Nes,
I did lawyer up a long time ago, really havent spoke to her much lately though, thanks for the advice.

Good stuff, Her mother is the CEO of a small company, but i dwarf her income. However she likes to try and live the lifestyle of a "real" CEO. My father in law just doesnt know how to say no to her.

I totally understand, i am going to contact her Father, he is very passive, but at least i can show my concern and maybe force him to finally stand up for what is right.

Be prepared for him not to believe you. Tell him that OMW is so concerned about your kids and WW that she is willing to talk to him herself. ETA: This exposure is about protecting your family from an OM with an abusive history.

Good job Ruikee. Call your lawyers and inform them of the current events and seek their advice.

R,

I agree with Scotty. If your son is truly being neglected (or worse abused), then you have to act and should. You are going to need EVIDENCE o/w it's going to look like you are just a jilted H who's jealous and seeking revenge out of spite. Sorry to say this, but family courts tend to be quite biased in favor of women/mothers at the expense of men/fathers. Many BHs here have experienced this in various situations and many WWs inherently know how to play it up, crocodile tears and all, in front of lawyers and judges.

I'm not surprised and believe you when you relate how much of a scumbag the OM is. Affair-partners are people, whether single or married themselves (often the latter), who obviously show no respect for others or the honor and values that make marriage sacred. It is no shock to anyone except the WS themselves (who of course ignore all the red flags at first) to later discover that his/her affair partner is indeed a low-class loser and a fraud who just did and said whatever was necessary to manipulate someone into bed. It is very common for WWs to "affair down"...way, way down. I know of where I speak personally.

If the OMW wants to call your WW, LET HER. It may accomplish nothing at first as your WW will probably defend the affair with the usual rationalizations and gaslight the OMW as "a jealous ex who is just bitter". But it will have an effect down the road and it never hurts to plant the seed. Give OMW your WW's number and let her handle it.

Does OMW have photos of her injuries when she was admitted to the hospital? Usually photos are taken in these cases.

Is there a police report or something on that when she went to the hospital?

Ruikee

Might be wise to speak to your lawyer if this is going to jeopardize custody. Your W may be gone but your children will be forever. Protect them carefully...You can't do that easily if your in jail...Or fighting stalking charges Thats all I am saying.

nESRE

I do not know, that did not come up. I recall her saying it wasnt physical but mental/verbal abuse. She said there was some kind of report. She also said the OM is trying to get pay her not to say anything to OM company becasue his security clearance is up for review and could be affected.

Ruikee. This is turning into a finger pointing match full of he said and she said. I got the impression that your W and son could be in immediate physical danger when you stated that OMW ended up in the hospital for 3 days. Although, I have no doubt that OM is very abusive, mental abuse is very hard to prove. Sadly, I have to say that others will most likely view this as bitter and spiteful.

I agree with nESRE. The legal system is your best bet here. Fight wisely and effectively to protect your son.

Thanks guys, i did call my father in law today to express my concern, he said he appreciated it and would talk to her. I did in fact get served today. I little sad but i know it will all be ok.

BLessings

Ruikee

Sorry to hear that. DO what you can WITHIN the law to be there for your kids. Kids will definately need you if she is going down a slippery slope. Be there all you can for them.

nESRE

Got served, for what?

My apologies as i havent been through this. I was served with divorce papers yesterday.

Blessings

Hi, Ruikee, I'm sorry to hear all of this. I'm sorry I haven't weighed in before now, but the holidays have made my posting very scattershot, and I haven't been able to follow everything.

I am still hoping and praying that you will be able to turn things around, and protect your children (and maybe your wife). As a man who has worked hard on eliminating anger and control in your own life, you are obviously a better choice for your wife than this man she's got going now.

Its ok Markos, i understand. Thank you, i have came a long way. Some people are saying that the reason she is so angry and lashing out at me now, is because i am a person she doesnt like anymore. Meaning, she may like the abusive type, which i am not anymore.
All i know is alot of people that use to not like me, love me now, and i am proud of my progress.

At this point Markos, i dont know what i can do to turn her around. I just dont know. I thought there was an article somewhere about becoming irresistable.

She does seem to have picked an abuser, but the truth is that you have a massive advantage over him with her.

Thanks for the encouragement Markos, i also am the father of our son. Joyce has asked me on the show again, i think this thursday, we will have to see what Bill has to say. You are an inspiration on here and many are blessed by your presence.....

I will look forward to hearing you again, Ruikee. At some point I need to listen to all your shows straight through.

It looks like they have the email issues worked out as Joyce and I are communication beautifully. They have moved me to Monday now. Again thanks for supporting everyone Markos. Blessings to you and your family.

Bill

Ruikee, I heard this old radio show this morning, and thought it might be helpful for you:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=39

Getting a wife who has checked out of the marriage involved again involves figuring out how to get the chance to deposit those love units. I'm concerned that the last chance you had was spent trying to get her to a retreat with you that would involve education about what both of you "should" be doing in the marriage. Do you see how that was a disrespectful judgment on your part? Since your wife's feeling is she doesn't want to be trapped with a controlling husband, eliminating anything that leads to that feeling is going to be key.

Thank goodness! I've referred so many people to the show only to hear them say they never heard back. And I had the same problem myself. For awhile they would only get my messages when I was sending a comment or compliment, never when I had an actual question.

EDIT: Found it - March 9, 2007

Yes Markos, i understand totally where you are coming from. What i do want to know, in the same situation, what should i have done?

W calls me up saying she wanted to reconcile, be obedient to God, boys need a father, miserable living with mother, tired of living with regrets. But i dont like you right now. I dont know what to do, do we see your pastor or mine?

That is where i was at. I said God is working there is a retreat next weekend. it could be a place to start.

I do see how that would be taken as a DR.

What should i have done?

Blessings

Hey Pray, what were you looking for?

You should have asked for the chance to start taking her out on regular dates. On dates, you can start depositing love units, which is what you have to do to turn this marriage around.

Ahhh, so back to what you said before, to occasionally ask, and if she says no, just say ok thanks and keep at it occasionally?

Thanks again Markos, Blessings.

Yes. Keep asking. Be persistent, but not annoying. Stay calm if she says no.

Markos,
I have an opportunity soon. Its not much but it is an opportunity.

I made an appointment for our sons first dental appt. Unfortunately he is also showing signs of autism, and i made an appointment for tests as well.

First she was angry and lashed out at me saying i never do anything right etc. Then a few days later she texted me thanking me for making the appointments and she would be able to attend, but next time check with me.

So Tuesday, as of today, she is going to our sons dental appointment with us.

Strategies?

My strategy would be: avoid overt signs of affection, and concentrate on making conversation. Ask her how she is doing. Find out about the problems she is facing in life. If she is worried about your son, definitely talk about that.

Study and memorize the friends and enemies of good conversation.

(Invest the time in finding that page on this website. Read it frequently.)

At the end of the appointment, when you guys are about to separate, casually extend an invitation for her to do something with you some time. Be gracious if she says no.

On another note, take seriously her complaint that you should have made this decision about your son in conjunction with her. You guys are still married, and your son is her son, too. Tell her, "I'm sorry; you are right; I should not have done that without consulting you." And in the future, consult with her.

I will do that Markos, i am a little surprised that you have not addressed the possible affair i think she may be having now. What are your thoughts on that?

Hey Markos, i was on the show today. Dr. Harley told me just to wait until the affair died a natural death. I meant to ask him about exposure at this point. What do you think, i believe it would speed up the process....

I may have missed it on another thread, but what happened with this opportunity?

Have you read the pebble/stream analogy? Making love bank deposits is like tossing pebbles into a stream: you cannot see any difference in the stream for a long time. And then, suddenly, you have a bridge you can cross.

It is really like this. You have to train yourself to keep making love bank deposits (big, or little), no matter what. The only time you refrain is when she indicates that a deposit you have in mind would actually be a withdrawal.

The opportunities will keep presenting themselves, if you keep looking and looking and looking for them. You need some super creativity to make this happen.

Focus on the typical woman's top emotional needs. Affection, conversation. Don't be so affectionate that she can't believe it, but do let her know that you are thinking about her and want to reconcile with her, and show her that if she does reconcile with you, she will be cared for. Use conversation to investigate, inform, and understand her; don't interrupt her, but let the conversation be balanced; encourage her to talk about herself and her feelings; TATTOO those friends and enemies of good conversation on the back of your eyelids!

What ENs is this other guy meeting for her? Meet those!

Not so occasionally that she does not hear from you. Absence does not make the heart grow fonder!

You need to be doing something every DAY to make a love bank deposit, if at all possible. Just a "thinking of you" text or email may work sometimes. A sentimental card and small sentimental gift for any occasions, DEFINITELY (Mother's Day, birthday, anniversary). A small, understated rose once in a while. An occasional "how are you doing?" phone call, where you just let her talk, if she wants.

Doing that kind of thing will hopefully lay the ground work for her to date you again.

When you see ANY indication that she is thinking about you again, you DATE! Just date! And you make it fantastic, to deposit as many love bank units as possible.

Since you guys have been separated for so long, I have been uncertain what to say about that.

I know that Dr. Harley seems to think that you can outcompete this guy.

My thinking is that you will get more effectiveness out of increasing your love bank deposit performance than out of any attempt to break up the affair. More carrot, less stick. I wouldn't say no stick, but I would say that I think you are capable of a lot more carrot.

If you write Dr. Harley a follow up letter maybe he can give his answer. I'm a little worried what to say, because this is a little bit different, in that you guys have been separate for so long.

The fact that the guy is abusive would definitely seem to recommend exposure, as well as a big boundary that you do not want your son around this guy!

However, she already thinks you are controlling. It's tricky. Very tricky.

It seems like Dr. Harley would have mentioned exposure and focused on it if he thought that was an important step. The fact that he didn't seems very unusual to me, which makes me hesitate to recommend it, for once!