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Originally Posted by Scotland
Have you already identified her top 5 ENs?

Have you read the thread about the carrot and stick of Plan A by Pepperband?

How long do you Plan on being in Plan A before entering Plan B?

yes i have identified her top 5 EN, we did the questionaiire a while back and i still had it.

I have read that thread but its been some time, i will read again.

Well Plan B is difficult with having a 2 year old son. Please give me some advice here.

Blessings and Love,


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thank you and please accept my apologies for not knowing how to multiple quote, i will do my best.

I am sorry for all you have been going through. If I understand you correctly, you and your W have been physically separated/living apart for over a year and you have been (somehow) monitoring her cellphone records and email for evidence of an affair. Until recently, you found nothing suspicious but lately have uncovered evidence that she's involved/communicating with an OM and has contacted a lawyer to file for divorce. You have been doing a long-distance Plan A throughout and want/wanted to recover your marriage. Correct me if I am wrong, but assuming not there's a few points to make here.

This is all true, yes long distance plan a wanting to recover my marriage.



1) It may not matter much at this point, but I wouldn't be so quick to assume that her affair (and that is what it is, no excuses about being separated or "in the process of divorce" are tolerated here) is new. With living apart it would be extremely easy for your WW to open new email accounts or get another cell line, etc. It would also be extremely easy for her to physically see someone else too. Simply, it is tough enough to verify NC (or no affair) with an uncooperative spouse from the same home. There is just no way that you could verify it for certain long-distance w/o access to other communocation venues she could easily obtain w/o your knowledge. So, you could be right but you could also very easily be wrong and she could have been having an affair (or a previous one) all along.

I agree totally, however my wife is not technically savy. she calls me occassionally to ask questions about her computer etc. I am a network engineer for the Govt, and i have access to many tools. Not disagreeing but odds are against it.

2) Could you tell us something about how the two of you came to be separated? You admit that you had a problem with anger and verbal abuse (and to your credit have worked on that), but was there anything else going on? What were the reasons she gave for leaving? How did it come about? And why was your stepson (HER bio son) left with YOU? Seems strange for a woman to leave her son with an estranged H she feels is abusive and has an anger problem...

We had an arguement about a dirty baby bottle when i got up to feed the baby one morning. She did not leave her son with me but we have spent time together on several occasions. We had alot of stress at the time, new puppy for the boys, moved my mother down from Cleveland, she was about to be homeless. And she was just getting back to work after being home for a year with the baby.

3) I ask the above because it isn't uncommon for a WW to physically leave, use the "bad husband/bad marriage" justification, and give the "I just need some space/need to clear my head" excuse, all while she is having a clandestine affair she desperately doesn't want known or revealed. It is also not uncommon for a WW to cake-eat, be ambivalent, and do the "warm-up/cool-down" cycle with her unknowing-BH while she is waiting for her OM to declare himself. In other words, waiting to see if her OM is going to stay with her, leave his wife, offer her some sort of long-term commitment, etc.

yes I agree with it all, but there was no sign of it at all. Her parents confirmed there was no one else not too long ago, but they could cover her as well.

4) I agree than Plan A alone--especially w/o exposure--is rarely effective in ending a WW's affair if the OM is reciprocating (and why wouldn't he? He's getting no-strings-attached sex). It's also really, really hard to effectively Plan A--affair or no affair--when a couple is separated. You aren't seeing or talking to each other much so the departed-spouse allows very little opportunity for the left-behind-spouse to deposit love units or demonstrate anti-lovebuster changes. If your W truly left for over a year w/o an OM in the picture to be exposed, I think you did the very best you could with a very bad deal of cards you had to play. She didn't give you much to work with sadly.

If she was indeed having an affair all along, it's probably too late for exposure to do much good. She's already covered her tracks and got all her ducks in a row with her "new relationship" by now. And if she has actually filed for divorce, new affair or old one, she's enacting her plan to move on with OM. I'm sorry but I would lawyer up, fight very hard for your best financial/child settlement, and go dark. Maybe you will get lucky (WWs tend to be VERY stubborn) and she will change her mind to give your marriage another chance if confronted with the prospect of a long and difficult legal battle.

Thanks for this advice. I have recently filed for custody due to neglect in giving our son his meds, sending her son off to a military school based on her mothers advice. And some other decisions she is making that are off the wall.



I am very sorry and wish you the best.


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R,

Don't worry about the quoting...I could understand you well by the paragraph and color changes you made. BTW, you make multiple quotes by placing "quote" at the start and "/quote" at the end, each in [brackets], of every body of text you want to separately quote. As to your responses...

1) Your W may not be very "technically savvy" but virtually anyone has the intellectual capacity to go to yahoo, hotmail, or gmail and create a new email account. Anyone with basic computer experience can easily do it. Likewise, virtually anyone with $50 can go buy a prepaid, disposable cellphone. All the more easy if she is not living with you for you to see/discover it. You may very well be correct about your past no-affair assumptions, but I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time a BH here was surprised and shocked to later learn the extent and mechanisms his WW went to stay in contact with her affair-partner. Cheaters tend to be very resourceful when they want/need to be.

2) No offense, but I seriously doubt that your W left her marital home and moved away from her H for over a year because of an arguement over a baby bottle and "stress" over family, job, and a puppy. Those sound like typical life events that affect everyone at various points. WSs often point to and even provoke arguements, confrontations, and stresses as a pretext and cover for leaving to pursue an affair-already-underway. Very few wives leave their husband and move out of their home purely because of financial strain or a verbal dispute. If they leave and/or threaten divorce, most often they have an OM on the side they're running to. Shelters and counselors' offices are full of women with violent/very abusive husbands/boyfriends (with have every legitimate reason to leave the relationship) who go back in short order. Even Dr. H wrote that he has had trouble getting wives to leave dangerous/unsafe husbands. Bottom line--and no offense--for your W to move out and stay out for a year+ probably means that she had an OM or something much more serious was going on between you.

3) I wouldn't place any stock in what your in-laws say. You can bet the farm that your W scapegoated and villified you to them as explanation for why she left her marraige to move back in with her folks. Most family members are going to take their relative's side at face value. If she had been having an affair all along (maybe, maybe not), do you really think they would tell you? Do you think that she (your W) would even admit it to them right away? Again, could be right but just as easily could be wrong.

The above issues are admittedly just academic at this point unfortunately. I think you are doing the right thing--all you can do really if she's hired an attorney--by lawyering up and defending yourself. I don't know what you can do about your stepson since he isn't legally yours (unless you adopted him), but you can fight for your bio son and parental rights. Please don't play the vindictive game (often done by WWs vs BHs) of falsely claiming "neglect" or "abuse" in an attempt to tear a child away from a divorcing parent. Those are pretty serious charges (the unfit-parent thing) so don't make them to get even with someone; only if they truly are necessary for the well-being of a minor.

Very sorry again...wish there was a better outcome here.

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Ruikee Offline OP
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Originally Posted by SDCW_man
R,

Don't worry about the quoting...I could understand you well by the paragraph and color changes you made. BTW, you make multiple quotes by placing "quote" at the start and "/quote" at the end, each in [brackets], of every body of text you want to separately quote. As to your responses...

1) Your W may not be very "technically savvy" but virtually anyone has the intellectual capacity to go to yahoo, hotmail, or gmail and create a new email account. Anyone with basic computer experience can easily do it. Likewise, virtually anyone with $50 can go buy a prepaid, disposable cellphone. All the more easy if she is not living with you for you to see/discover it. You may very well be correct about your past no-affair assumptions, but I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time a BH here was surprised and shocked to later learn the extent and mechanisms his WW went to stay in contact with her affair-partner. Cheaters tend to be very resourceful when they want/need to be.

2) No offense, but I seriously doubt that your W left her marital home and moved away from her H for over a year because of an arguement over a baby bottle and "stress" over family, job, and a puppy. Those sound like typical life events that affect everyone at various points. WSs often point to and even provoke arguements, confrontations, and stresses as a pretext and cover for leaving to pursue an affair-already-underway. Very few wives leave their husband and move out of their home purely because of financial strain or a verbal dispute. If they leave and/or threaten divorce, most often they have an OM on the side they're running to. Shelters and counselors' offices are full of women with violent/very abusive husbands/boyfriends (with have every legitimate reason to leave the relationship) who go back in short order. Even Dr. H wrote that he has had trouble getting wives to leave dangerous/unsafe husbands. Bottom line--and no offense--for your W to move out and stay out for a year+ probably means that she had an OM or something much more serious was going on between you.

3) I wouldn't place any stock in what your in-laws say. You can bet the farm that your W scapegoated and villified you to them as explanation for why she left her marraige to move back in with her folks. Most family members are going to take their relative's side at face value. If she had been having an affair all along (maybe, maybe not), do you really think they would tell you? Do you think that she (your W) would even admit it to them right away? Again, could be right but just as easily could be wrong.

The above issues are admittedly just academic at this point unfortunately. I think you are doing the right thing--all you can do really if she's hired an attorney--by lawyering up and defending yourself. I don't know what you can do about your stepson since he isn't legally yours (unless you adopted him), but you can fight for your bio son and parental rights. Please don't play the vindictive game (often done by WWs vs BHs) of falsely claiming "neglect" or "abuse" in an attempt to tear a child away from a divorcing parent. Those are pretty serious charges (the unfit-parent thing) so don't make them to get even with someone; only if they truly are necessary for the well-being of a minor.

Very sorry again...wish there was a better outcome here.

SDC,
Thanks, i agree with all you have said. Funny thing happened yesterday. The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days. We figured out how they came into contact. Another teacher she works with, her husband, also very abusive, is good friends with this guy.

She feels so sorry because when she left, she told him to never get involved with someone with children. He abused her children as well. She highly recommend that i do whatever i can to keep my son out of the situation as much as possible. She wanted to call my wife and tell her that this man has no business being around a woman with children, and she is not angry about her seperation from him.

I appreciate all the wisdom on not taking action in revenge. I do check my heart for my motives before. I have been concerned for sometime about the neglect.

When i pick up my son, his finger nails are always very long and dirty. When he needs a hair cut, i always take him for it. And of course the medication, which is serious. A few times he was sent over with an overdue diaper. She counts on my 74 year old father in law who has had 2 heart attacks, one within the past 6 months, to drive him and pick him up from the sitter. So you can see my concern for our son.

Thanks again for your help, wisdom and insight.


R


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Quote
Don't worry about the quoting...I could understand you well by the paragraph and color changes you made

I agree. The colour changes are a great help. Thank you.

This guy is a real loser. WEll, no surprise there. WS's ALWAYS AFFAIR DOWN.

Do what you need to to protect your son. When OMW wanted to contact your WW, did you give her the number? I would have. Your WW will take it as a woman scorned, but it will put some daggers in their affair, and you didn't do it.



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Originally Posted by Scotland
Quote
Don't worry about the quoting...I could understand you well by the paragraph and color changes you made

I agree. The colour changes are a great help. Thank you.

This guy is a real loser. WEll, no surprise there. WS's ALWAYS AFFAIR DOWN.

Do what you need to to protect your son. When OMW wanted to contact your WW, did you give her the number? I would have. Your WW will take it as a woman scorned, but it will put some daggers in their affair, and you didn't do it.

She said if there was anything she could do to help she would. She told me in her eyes, my wife still does love me. She said she almost feels committed to helping us get back together. I know a woman scorned would not say these things.

It looks like you are telling me to expose the affair? I sense that somehow it would push her away from me now, maybe not if the OMW did it?


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Originally Posted by Ruikee
Funny thing happened yesterday. The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days. We figured out how they came into contact. Another teacher she works with, her husband, also very abusive, is good friends with this guy.

She feels so sorry because when she left, she told him to never get involved with someone with children. He abused her children as well. She highly recommend that i do whatever i can to keep my son out of the situation as much as possible.

Ruikee. Your W has been living apart (long distance) from you for over a year. She has filed for divorce. She is involved with violent abusive OM which has been verified by OMW. If your WW gets her divorce, she will be free to set up house with OM AND your baby.

Originally Posted by Ruikee
It looks like you are telling me to expose the affair? I sense that somehow it would push her away from me now, maybe not if the OMW did it?

Why is this even a question? Why would you hesitate to expose this for even one second? You are gambling with your baby's safety. Tell her parents. Invite them to talk with OMW. Stop worrying about pushing her away...protect your kid from her.


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So i am receiving conflicting wisdom at least to me.

I agree an affair is an affair. We are still married "legally" and the OM is still "legally" married.

So exposure is warranted to protect my son even though she has filed for divorce? How do you go about it, Emails? I read on when to expose but i do not see one on the procedure.

Last edited by Ruikee; 01/04/12 11:01 AM.

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Originally Posted by Ruikee
So i am receiving conflicting wisdom at least to me.

I agree an affair is an affair. We are still married "legally" and the OM is still "legally" married.

So exposure is warranted to protect my son even though she has filed for divorce? How do you go about it, Emails? I read on when to expose but i do not see one on the procedure.

Don't you think it would be in your son's best interest to have people know that she is involved with OM who has a domestic violence history? Do you think that at least her parents would be alarmed enough to help stop this?

Ruikee. If my H had been separated long distance from me for over a year, I would not be worried about pushing him away further if he was involved with a violent person who might also harm my child since he had custody.

What is your priority here? Is the M more important than a baby's welfare?

Originally Posted by Ruikee
Funny thing happened yesterday. The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days. We figured out how they came into contact. Another teacher she works with, her husband, also very abusive, is good friends with this guy.

She feels so sorry because when she left, she told him to never get involved with someone with children. He abused her children as well. She highly recommend that i do whatever i can to keep my son out of the situation as much as possible.


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Originally Posted by Ruikee
I have recently filed for custody due to neglect in giving our son his meds, sending her son off to a military school based on her mothers advice.

Her mother sounds quite wise to me. At least one son will be protected from the lack of sound judgement.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Ruikee, I would not expose it. She has apparently moved on.

She has not left your marriage for an affair, she has left because she is done.

Since you have been separated over a year you might even get into big legal trouble for spying on her and end up with a stalking charge.


Ruikee

My advice to you is you better lawyer up before making any moves.


nESRE

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Originally Posted by nesre
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Ruikee, I would not expose it. She has apparently moved on.

She has not left your marriage for an affair, she has left because she is done.

Since you have been separated over a year you might even get into big legal trouble for spying on her and end up with a stalking charge.


Ruikee

My advice to you is you better lawyer up before making any moves.


nESRE

Hey Nes,
I did lawyer up a long time ago, really havent spoke to her much lately though, thanks for the advice.


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Originally Posted by pokerface
Originally Posted by Ruikee
I have recently filed for custody due to neglect in giving our son his meds, sending her son off to a military school based on her mothers advice.

Her mother sounds quite wise to me. At least one son will be protected from the lack of sound judgement.

Good stuff, Her mother is the CEO of a small company, but i dwarf her income. However she likes to try and live the lifestyle of a "real" CEO. My father in law just doesnt know how to say no to her.


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Originally Posted by pokerface
Originally Posted by Ruikee
So i am receiving conflicting wisdom at least to me.

I agree an affair is an affair. We are still married "legally" and the OM is still "legally" married.

So exposure is warranted to protect my son even though she has filed for divorce? How do you go about it, Emails? I read on when to expose but i do not see one on the procedure.

Don't you think it would be in your son's best interest to have people know that she is involved with OM who has a domestic violence history? Do you think that at least her parents would be alarmed enough to help stop this?

Ruikee. If my H had been separated long distance from me for over a year, I would not be worried about pushing him away further if he was involved with a violent person who might also harm my child since he had custody.

What is your priority here? Is the M more important than a baby's welfare?

Originally Posted by Ruikee
Funny thing happened yesterday. The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days. We figured out how they came into contact. Another teacher she works with, her husband, also very abusive, is good friends with this guy.

She feels so sorry because when she left, she told him to never get involved with someone with children. He abused her children as well. She highly recommend that i do whatever i can to keep my son out of the situation as much as possible.

I totally understand, i am going to contact her Father, he is very passive, but at least i can show my concern and maybe force him to finally stand up for what is right.


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Originally Posted by Ruikee
I totally understand, i am going to contact her Father, he is very passive, but at least i can show my concern and maybe force him to finally stand up for what is right.

Be prepared for him not to believe you. Tell him that OMW is so concerned about your kids and WW that she is willing to talk to him herself. ETA: This exposure is about protecting your family from an OM with an abusive history.

Good job Ruikee. Call your lawyers and inform them of the current events and seek their advice.

Last edited by pokerface; 01/04/12 01:43 PM.

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R,

I agree with Scotty. If your son is truly being neglected (or worse abused), then you have to act and should. You are going to need EVIDENCE o/w it's going to look like you are just a jilted H who's jealous and seeking revenge out of spite. Sorry to say this, but family courts tend to be quite biased in favor of women/mothers at the expense of men/fathers. Many BHs here have experienced this in various situations and many WWs inherently know how to play it up, crocodile tears and all, in front of lawyers and judges.

I'm not surprised and believe you when you relate how much of a scumbag the OM is. Affair-partners are people, whether single or married themselves (often the latter), who obviously show no respect for others or the honor and values that make marriage sacred. It is no shock to anyone except the WS themselves (who of course ignore all the red flags at first) to later discover that his/her affair partner is indeed a low-class loser and a fraud who just did and said whatever was necessary to manipulate someone into bed. It is very common for WWs to "affair down"...way, way down. I know of where I speak personally.

If the OMW wants to call your WW, LET HER. It may accomplish nothing at first as your WW will probably defend the affair with the usual rationalizations and gaslight the OMW as "a jealous ex who is just bitter". But it will have an effect down the road and it never hurts to plant the seed. Give OMW your WW's number and let her handle it.


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Originally Posted by Ruikee
The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days.

Originally Posted by SDCW_man
will probably defend the affair with the usual rationalizations and gaslight the OMW as "a jealous ex who is just bitter".

Does OMW have photos of her injuries when she was admitted to the hospital? Usually photos are taken in these cases.

Last edited by pokerface; 01/04/12 06:41 PM. Reason: eta: SDCW_man quote

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Is there a police report or something on that when she went to the hospital?


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Originally Posted by Ruikee
Originally Posted by nesre
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Ruikee, I would not expose it. She has apparently moved on.

She has not left your marriage for an affair, she has left because she is done.

Since you have been separated over a year you might even get into big legal trouble for spying on her and end up with a stalking charge.


Ruikee



My advice to you is you better lawyer up before making any moves.


nESRE

Hey Nes,
I did lawyer up a long time ago, really havent spoke to her much lately though, thanks for the advice.



Ruikee

Might be wise to speak to your lawyer if this is going to jeopardize custody. Your W may be gone but your children will be forever. Protect them carefully...You can't do that easily if your in jail...Or fighting stalking charges Thats all I am saying.

nESRE


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Originally Posted by pokerface
Originally Posted by Ruikee
The guys wife contacted me. She said she just recently seperated from him. He is very very abusive. He put her in the hospital for 3 days.

Originally Posted by SDCW_man
will probably defend the affair with the usual rationalizations and gaslight the OMW as "a jealous ex who is just bitter".

Does OMW have photos of her injuries when she was admitted to the hospital? Usually photos are taken in these cases.

I do not know, that did not come up. I recall her saying it wasnt physical but mental/verbal abuse. She said there was some kind of report. She also said the OM is trying to get pay her not to say anything to OM company becasue his security clearance is up for review and could be affected.


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