I have been 'faithfully' married to my husband for 28 yrs. + 3 mos. We married young (25). "I" wasn't his "first pick" (Can we say 3rd time is a charm?). I recently caught him in numerous lies about siphoning money, from a 'secret' account, to his family (to the tune of nearly 100K in the last 7 years). I asked him to leave on New Year's Day and filed for divorce (he was served on 1/15/2013). After being served, he did what he does best, he used our children (27 & 24) as a weapon. During the 'weapon' stage, he read "Love Busters" and realized that he was more to blame for our 'marital problems' than I was and he decided to "come clean". He texted our sister-in-law (my BFF for the last year+ and my husband's, brother's wife) and told her things that he had kept from me for 3 decades (lying by omission). My Sister-in-Law told me that he texted her about an affair AND SOMETHING WORSE!. She said that he told her that there was something that happened 'before we met' that could be a lot worse than the affair. What can be worse than an affair? (You know I found out). Apparently, in addition to having "un-protected" sex with an old girlfriend while he was married to me, he had "un-protected" sex with "MY SISTER" before we dated (EEEWWWWWW!!!!!!!). I don't have any claim to his life before we met, other than "HISTORICAL HONESTY", and I accept that. However, in the interest of 'Radical Honesty', does anyone (other than me) think that he should have given me the option to "DATE" a man who had slept with my (2 years older, married, with a kid, sister)? Should I Stay or Should I Go? I'm conflicted!!!

Hi crazyaunt, welcome to Marriage Builders. Whether or not you decide to stay married is up to you, but you can have a great marriage if you implement this program. You can't change the past but you can have a great present and future.

I agree. If you want to save your marriage you've come to the best place.

Have you read Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts?

CrazyAunt,

If you had found out this information 1 month you likely would have had your Marriage annulled, now that you know I think you have to have your WH submit to a polygraph or divorce him.

God Bless
Gamma

I have read, "Love Busters", "His Needs, Her Needs", and "Surviving An Affair", all by Dr. Harley. I've read each of them multiple times. My (soon-to-be-ex)husband has read the first two and is having a difficult time finishing "Surviving An Affair". I don't think he can relate (he HAD the affair, he doesn't need to survive it!)

My WH says, "It was one time 25 years ago! Get over it!!!" I JUST found out about the affair, and my sister, 5 months ago. My wounds are fresh. I realize that my ENTIRE adult life was a lie (WOW, that was hard to write).

I'm sorry that I was off-line for so long. I was getting my hair done before I volunteer, tomorrow, to help feed the homeless, and hopefully meet some 'like minded' people. I'm really tired of being lied to, verbally, mentally, emotionally, and psychologically abused, and completely taken advantage of (and I hate ending a sentence with a preposition).

I'm in lots of pain (and I'm seeing a councilor, which is more than my WH is doing). I feel like I'm the only one that is working on this marriage (if you can call it that) because I know it will affect our children, even though they are grown and out of the house.

Speaking of the children, they should be told.

The kids have been told and are "no longer" on my side. Once again, he has used my children as weapons and taken them from me "once and for all" (and I'm the one that was BETRAYED). I raised my children, nurtured them (like he NEVER knew) and supported them, as long as I could. I am, alone, with no support system, therefore, I am pathetic.

You are not pathetic. Have you been into your doctor?

Do you want to save your marriage?

I'm not getting this. You told your children that their father was a hound dog who cheated on you, and they are on HIS side?? How did THAT happen?

Crazy Aunt,

I agree,You are not pathetic!

From what you wrote her, limited evidence I know, your WH sounds like a chronic liar and manipulator, a narissistic type who blames and vilifies others for his failures and uses people without remorse. Who then is pathetic.

God Bless
Gamma

My WH was also the "Disneyland Dad". He travelled a lot and was "the good guy" when he was home. He also made sure that the kids "heard" that he had NEVER cheated on Mom, which made Mom look like a raving lunatic, because I knew but could not prove that he was cheating on me. WHAT I KNOW AND WHAT I CAN PROVE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS!

"Gamma": You are right!!, He is a narcissist and a misogynist. I didn't know this until just now. I'm leaning toward, "I Should Go.", but I love him and have invested 3 decades of my life. I also hate him for what he has done to me and turned me into.

Hi, CA, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the circumstances that bring you here.

It is not exactly the same situation, but you might take a look at this very long thread about a situation where a husband was discovered to have had a long ago affair with his wife's sister. Everybody knew but the wife, and nobody ever told her!

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2350318#Post2350318

Thanks for the link.

So, this last week I decided to mirror his behavior. I've been treating him with the same indifference that I've experienced for the last 29 years. And, guess what? He doesn't like it! Ya think? It may be the only way to get him to realize that people need to be treated with respect and care.

I still love him, but I have so much pain from all the lying, cheating, and stealing, that I'm afraid I'll never be able to get beyond the hurt.

Crazy Aunt,

He is a narcissist and a misogynist.

Interesting that you make the point of his being a misogynist, I've often noticed that a sub-group of the serial cheating men do so out of a hatred of women and a need to cause them pain and humiliation. There's a sadistic aspect to their psychology as well.

God Bless
Gamma

I mentioned earlier that, we both read Dr. Harley's books. After I served him with the divorce papers in January, he read "Love Busters" (on the advice of our sister-in-law). He got so excited over the principles in the book because they made sense to him, that he begged for a chance at reconciliation. Since I had read "Love Busters" and "Surviving An Affair", I decided to give it a chance. After all, Dr. Harley says you can survive an affair and have the marriage you always wanted.

Well, February was fantastic! We worked the principles in the books. We devoted 'undivided attention' to each other, we had 'radically honest intimate conversations', he was affectionate (for the first time in 28 years!), and the marriage was great! That was one month out of 28.5 years!!!!! I did the math, it equals 0.29%. That is really pitiful!!! Less than one third of one percent of my marriage was worth "writing home about." It makes me lean toward, "I should go."

He's no longer "working" Dr. Harley's principles. He hasn't finished reading "Surviving An Affair" (which is at my request). And, he is back to treating me with the disrespect that I let him get away with for 29 years.

I feel a need to vent.

One of the BIGGEST sources of our marital discord is, my mother-in-law (MIL). I know, what a cliche. But hear me out.

The day after we took his parents out to dinner to make the announcement that we were getting married, my MIL called my WH on the phone and tried to convince him "NOT" to marry me (it lasted an hour!!!!). I know this, because I WAS THERE! We were on our way to a bike ride. We were 'almost' out the door, when the phone rang. I begged him NOT to answer it. He said, "It'll bug me all day, if I don't know who called." (1985 not everyone had an answering machine). So, back inside we went, and I sat in his living room, listening to him DEFEND his decision to marry "me" (remember: I wasn't the first, I wasn't the second, "I" was 'throw away thirds'! (Self deprecating, I know, and I need to work on that!)) MIL's issue: I wasn't the same religion as her, so how were we going to raise our children?

WOW! Can you say, "With Love and Affection, Nurturing and Understanding, and LET THEM DECIDE!!!!!!"? Apparently NOT, so, she set out to make me an "OUT-LAW", not an in-law.

After about 13-14 years of marriage, my MIL (who liked to send a letter in her Christmas card) decided to "rewrite" history and make me "disappear". My MIL sent a letter in her Christmas card (to all relatives country-wide) that made my WH sound like a single parent. She took it a step further, she made it sound like he had been a single parent "all of my children's natural lives". She made me disappear, in the eyes of my WH's world. It was after this 'letter' that I pulled away from his family and decided that, "you cannot waste any of your life on people that DO NOT TREAT YOU WITH RESPECT!!!!! (It' all over FB)

As an FYI side note: my MIL is a cheater!!!! She cheated on her husband while he was terminally ill for 14 years and fighting for his life (WHO DOES THAT?) She probably cheated on him since she said, "I Do."

My husband cannot cut the umbilical cord. Even though his mother is a narcissist (on a scale of 1-10, she's a 14), he cannot understand that EVERYTHING she does is for her own benefit! We had an "enthusiastic agreement" about how to handle her (MIL), but he is now trying to "re-negotiate" that agreement. UMMMMMMM, I don't think so. There is so much more (about MIL) that you don't know yet (like: she sets my WH up with old girlfriends when he visits and I'm not there, she encourages infidelity, she insights fights in the marriage, and, the most basic: she hates me.)

So, one person working on a relationship does NOT A MARRIAGE MAKE! That answers the question, doesn't it? Does the pain ever end?????? I need to know.

CrazyAunt,

About the MIL, do you know who she was cheating with? Expose her butt to high heaven, let her hate you even more, shine a light on her.

God Bless
Gamma

Was he satisfied with the way you met his emotional needs during that time? Sounds like he did a great job of meeting yours. Maybe you should sign up for the online program so that you can both be held accountable. Then stick to it once you're through the program.

Study up on plan B. It is a plan to help you recover from this betrayal. It requires separation and no contact.

I find it strange that the kids are swayed by your husband? All I can think is that the stress of being in a chronically unhappy marriage has made you seem 'crazy' to your children. It sounds like they don't find you and your laments credible.

This also suggests to me that your husband is skilled at gaslighting (look it up) which indeed over time will drive you crazy!

Take action to cut him out of your life until he shows remorse and willingness to work on this. Prepare for the possibility that he might not. You have a lot of life left. You get to decide how you want to live it but it's going to require you to act and to make protecting yourself your TOP priority.

Staying in this and suffering isn't going to win you any prizes. Sometimes the resentment is too great to be overcome and divorce is the best solution.

One way your husband can show just compensation is to sit down with the kids and apologize to them and you for making them believe that you were the crazy one for being so unhappy.

Being mean to him and the tit for tat isn't going to get you anywhere. I get the feeling in your case, you might be better off just cutting loose from this. Too much rage and seemingly no way to work through it.

CA, I am very sorry for what has brought you hear and I empathize with your overall situation.

Other than the cheating, I would think we have the same MIL and I am certain that our husbands are blood relations.

Best of luck and you will find that the vets on this forum have extremely knowledgeable advice. Head it if you want to try to salvage your marriage. If it is not salvageable, you will know before long.

Apparently, my MIL cheated on her husband through the entire marriage with multiple partners. My brother-in-law thinks that's the reason he and all of his siblings are cheaters.

BetrayedP:

In February, when we were working the principles of the books, we made a conscious effort to meet each others needs. He got caught up in "work mode" in March and we both slipped into our familiar behavior and we haven't tried to get it back. He keeps saying that I'm not meeting HIS needs, but he hasn't even attempted to meet mine. I'm the only one working on the marriage. It can't survive without 2 people working on it.

What values does he have that you love so much?

I suggest you contact the Marriage Builders coaching center for advice on how to proceed.
Would your husband he willing to speak with Steve Harley?

I have suggested phone counseling with the Harley's and his response was, "You go ahead, I don't want to." I think he's afraid of being called out on his behavior since he read the books, believes in the principles, but cannot (or will not) follow them.

Is this what you want for the next 3 decades of your life?

Good question, Jedi_Knight. I've been wondering the same thing, lately. My #1 emotional need is: Honesty and Openness. He cannot meet this emotional need, for me. He started our relationship with a lie, he lied about the EA for 25 years, he keeps secrets (and therefore a "secret second life" that he doesn't want me to know about) and all he can say when we talk about the marriage is: "You're not meeting my needs!" It's a two-way street and takes 2 people to be in a relationship.

I don't have 3 more decades to spend this unhappy.

Are you calling the coaching center?

I just signed up for coaching, alone. My WH will be out of town for a couple days next week. I'd like to give them the background w/o his interruptions.

No, you should not be this unhappy for three more decades. Keep posting and listen to the advise of the vets and coaching center.

I think this is a step in the right direction. Even if your WH shows stubborness in getting on board. Dr. Harley has stated on his radio show (which you can download to your smartphone for free and listen to daily) it takes two to fix a marriage but only takes one spouse to get the ball rolling.

Did you ever get into your doctor for some ADs?

Are you considering Plan B?

I'm glad you called to MB coaching center.

I had a wonderful, 1 hour phone coaching session yesterday. We are trying to get my WH to join in the coaching (as recovery cannot occur unless both parties "do the work"). I was told that it is NOT a DIY process and we both need to be involved. I agree. I invited my WH to join in the coaching and while I had him on the phone, he agreed. I saw this as progress toward recovery. Less than four hours later, he sent me an e-mail recanting his agreement to seek coaching.

I think there's another affair. The way he has been behaving the last couple of weeks, and his reluctance to work on the marriage are sending up some 'red flags' for me. This may explain the reluctance. I am going to continue with the coaching, but, as I stated earlier, 1 person working does not a relationship make.

So will you be going into Plan B?

BrainHurts:

The coaching center and I have a plan of action which I am comfortable with (no matter which way the "recovery" takes.)

To answer your previous question about AD's: I have a debilitating, chronic, autoimmune disease, and I am not comfortable taking "pharmaceutical" drugs that could possibly mask the systems to which I must be acutely in-tuned, for my own safety. I didn't want to reveal this information (because I despise being viewed as 'handicapped') I have had this disorder for over 14 years (A lot less than the amount of time since the EA). I'm not looking for sympathy (if I were, I would have disclosed this, sooner). I'm just trying to explain why: I don't do pharmaceuticals!

Are you coaching with Steve or Dr. Jennifer Chalmers?

Steve.

I have had this 'disease' for almost 15 years, and I know my body. The problem is: I haven't been under this much stress, before, and one day can make a "world" of difference. I can go from, managing just fine, to being confined to a wheelchair not being able to feed myself, or blind and all of the above, in a heart beat. I need to 'keep my finger on the pulse' of what my body is telling me.

Steve is good. Does Steve know yet, that your WH recanted his session?

I'm glad you know what you need for your health. We are pulling for you.

I think Steve knows, but I can't be sure until I speak to him, again.

I took a "BIG" step this morning. I'm implementing Plan B! I asked my WH to move out of the house. I took his key, so he can't get back into the house without my permission (unless he 'breaks in.') He didn't pack any clothes. Does that mean that he has clothes at his "girlfriend's" house? Or, is he expecting to get let back into my house?

Send strength!

Has he contacted you today?

Did you complete all the Plan B steps.

No, he has not contacted me.

I know about too much hurt and pain! I had 30 years of lies (WH slept with my 'married' sister and didn't say anything to me about it, before we met) and then had "unprotected" sex with an old girlfriend when I was pregnant with our second child. I can't get over the "hurt and pain". I'm in therapy and talking to Steve Harley. My WH won't talk to anyone (I think he's afraid to face his demons, since he was not raised by "good" people).

CA good for you for getting into plan B. How are things?

Plan B is going well. It's not a "no contact" but a 'minimal contact' because of his dog. He recently convinced my daughter to "unfriend" me on FB, so he has effectively turned both of my kids against me. All that means is that they will take longer to realize what kind of person he really is. Again, he is using my kids as weapons against me, they will get it, eventually.

My attorney is getting things done, now that the 'recovery' isn't on the table. I'll be talking to Steve, in the morning. I'll update after the session.