Hi, I'm in need of help.

2 years ago my wife came home and told me she wanted to separate, I knew what it was, but she wouldn't admit it. A month in I got her to admit to an EA with a coworker, who had made out with her at a party which had prompted the "separation" issue.

We worked through stuff and were getting back on track, but she never left her job and fell back into the affair. For the last year + it's been a pile of lies and poor choices for her and the affair has crossed a lot more boundaries. I've "known" but haven't been able to prove it or get her to admit it, despite basically knowing everything (which has since been confirmed).

A few weeks ago I "snapped" after a downward spiral of more and more "proof" followed by her denials. I went to her place of work and she half admitted things, at which I blew up and confronted him. Nothing physical and at no point directed at her, but loud and absolutely not the way I wanted to do this. It was very much in contrast to who I am and how I've been dealing with a lot of this, and I'm ashamed at my behavior on that day.

After a week on a friends couch to give her space I went home and she had found an apartment and moved out in short order.

Since then it's been a long stream of her saying "This might be the biggest mistake of my life, I'm so stupid, I'm a horrible person." and so on.

I'm certain that he's just using her to stroke his ego, and maybe set himself with a new live in girlfriend if his current one leaves. I know people tend to view blaming the OM as a copout, but there is no doubt in my mind that he's been gaming her in an attempt to push her limits (including having gotten her to start drinking back at the beginning of this mess). She's made her choices, I've accepted that, but she's hooked and no matter how far away she gets he reels her back in when he's bored.

Her family knows, and all her work friends have at least heard the rumor (although I believe it's just served to solidify my place as the countrolling abusive husband that OM has apparently been telling people I am).

We've been spending time together, although she still sees him at work every day (they work very closely) and is still continuing the affair. In the last few days she's been more "lucid" in how she is viewing him and her situation as the OW to him, and we are still extremely close.

I love her very much. We've been together 14 years next week(since we were 18), married for 7, and I want to save our marriage, but the marriage isn't as important to me as she is.

I had been trying to do plan A, but the lying and his games kept me in a state of conflict that I greatly regret. When she moved out I had planned to go to Plan B, but I quickly returned to an attempt at a more legitimate Plan A. I have been avoiding any LB to the best of my ability and have been trying my hardest to return her to the state of conflict at least.

Thanks for listening

Welcome to Marriage Builders, nowhereman. Sorry for the reasons that have brought you here.

This affair has been going on for such a long time that I don't have high hopes. Even if the affair does die a natural death at work, she has been wayward so long that she is likely to just go onto the next affair partner.

There is a small hope, but it lies only in getting her to leave the job and I don't imagine that is going to happen unless you expose it at work.

If I were you, I would conduct a very strategic, widespread exposure in order to kill the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it may have the effect of hastening its death. If that happens, you might have a real chance.

Is the OM married?

Thank you for your reply.

I believe the affair is dying, in part from the "exposure" that has occurred and the decisions she has made in the last few weeks. Unfortunately I don't know anyone to expose to on his side except his girlfriend, whom I haven't told. I should have told her 2 years ago, wanted to but was convinced not to, but now I believe the fact that she is still there and my wife can see that he's not making moves to get her out is part of what is waking her up.

As far as exposing at work, I think I missed my chance when I flipped out down there. I'm not allowed back on the property and they clearly didn't, or didn't want to, believe me.

Tell the girlfriend.

Of the things that you need to do to save your M, breaking up the affair and eliminating contact with the AP are at the top of the list.

I've thought about it a lot, and have come close a few times, but it has raised questions.

If I expose the affair to her, assuming she doesn't know, and she leaves him doesn't that make it easier for the affair to continue?
Since WW seems angry with OM for not leaving his girlfriend, is it counterproductive to do the heavy lifting for him?
How does one effectively expose to his girlfriend?

[quote=Nowheremann]Thank you for your reply.

I believe the affair is dying, in part from the "exposure" that has occurred and the decisions she has made in the last few weeks. [quote]

I don't think exposure has occurred. What did you say to your exposure targets EXACTLY? What did you say to the director of Human Resources? The Vice president? His girlfriend? His parents? Her parents?

So, you haven't even used the most potent weapon against an affair. That is really your only hope as far as I see it. I would read through my exposure thread for instructions on how to achieve this. Come back and lets talk.

But, the affair HAS continued, so I don't understand what you mean when you say "make it easier for the affair to continue?"

You already have evidence that your silence leads to a continuation of the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so your silence has enabled the affair to continue.

As I said, the "exposure" at work came when I found out and I "lost it" so to speak. Not how I wanted to do it, not something particularly normal to my personality, it just happened. I was removed from the building by the guy who runs the organization, and the HR person, who both insisted that if there was an affair it had nothing to do with work and wasn't their problem because it wasn't happening there; they know because they "have cameras everywhere". They followed up by saying they would look into it, but I'm fairly sure they were just trying to get my sorry broken self off their property. I covered everything, including timeline and such, but I was in the midst of an emotional breakdown and I'm fairly sure I'm just her "crazy husband" at this point.

WW family and friends "know", but those friends who actually believe it or know it to be true have the "do what makes you happy" response to her and have consistantly tried to get her to join them in their "single girl" party lifestyle, something that she was never into prior to this starting and has since expressed a dislike for, but she's not really demonstrating any self control at the moment. None of them seem to grasp the concepts of committed relationships and they enjoy getting her to drink more and more. Lots of FB posts about "we should get her drunk, that would be funny, build up her tolerance so she can drink more" and the like. Their solution is to take her out and drink regardless of what's actually going on, because clearly booze makes things better. They also all work with her and him and seem to think he's a great guy.

I know little about OM family or friends (aside from coworkers) and can't access his FB or his girlfriend's (I believe I was blocked when the affair went dormant the first time). I suspect this is not his first affair, or even only affair at the moment, as he seems to be pretty good at the whole "game" he's playing.

As for the question about exposing to his girlfriend, if I had done it with everything else and she had left him, I believe the affair would be going strong, but because he has not dumped his girlfriend (they live together and bought a house together in the midst of this), WW is turning on him rapidly because he's scurrying to protect his life and trying to convince her this is what she wanted, and that he's got no plans for the future with her.

Her being the OW to his life seems to be helping her recognize what's going on. I am fairly sure though that if OM's GF left, or had left, OM would try to pull WW as a replacement (he apparently wanted her to move in a ways back when his GF was mad at him). Right now WW is feeling used, abused, and in general, very unhappy with OM. She's confessed to both myself and her sister that she wants to stop because it's no good, but says she "can't" or "doesn't know how to".

The problem is that despite the emotional abuse, she's still addicted to the affair and because I can't end the job (which was the problem the first time as well) I can't completely cut him off from her.

I have read your thread and, again not in the best way, covered all of it with as many people as I have had access to, and all in a very quick order.

Again thank you for your help.

Except that's not the way it usually pans out. How it usually pans out is this. He strings your WW along, saying he's going to leave his GF. He doesn't leave GF, and your WW gets withdrawn and cools off. But she is addicted to the OM and the A, so it eventually rekindles. As it intensifies, he makes promises to leave his GF which he never does. Rinse and repeat.

Do as Melody says. break that A up.

I would follow up with a certified letter with the verbiage in the template in my exposure thread. Have you read it?


That is where I would begin. Did you read the template letters on my thread? Expose to her family members, giving them all the facts and asking them to use their influence to persuade her to end thee affair.



So that is what you need to find out. Get to his facebook account and get a copy of his contacts. Being "blocked" would not stop a 5 year old and I don't expect it to stop you. If he truly has a hidden contact list, then there are many other ways you can get the rest of his information. It does not take 2 years to do this.

Anyway, if you are serious about saving your marriage, that is your best shot. You must certainly realize that your own tactics of enabling have not served you well. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says "it is hard to save a marriage when you are an enabler." Keeping the affair a secret only serves to enable it.

Sir, your own best thinking has about destroyed your marriage. Unless you set aside your own "ideas" of recovery, you are going to end up divorced. You are talking to people who have saved their own marriages and you STILL hang onto your own failed ideas.

That is ok with me because I have already saved my marriage. You can take it or leave it. But please understand that your best ideas have not worked for you.

Your beliefs are not based in any substance and are probably fueled by conflict avoidance. Conflict avoiders tend to make up bizarre rationalizations so they can avoid confrontations. This "belief" would fall in that category.

Exposure ruins affairs and you have helped hide the affair for a very long time. Affairs thrive on secrecy and you have driven the getaway car here.

Thank you for your replies. I've been away working and haven't had time to return as of late, so I apologize for not responding sooner.

I have attempted exposure as per the thread suggestions. Her family knows, and I have some support from her close family, although she's not listening to them either.

It would seem that nobody else wants to believe it, or at the very least wants to acknowledge it, including his girlfriend (although there seems to be trouble brewing there). My wife seems to believe that GF doesn't believe it because she is dumb, but believes he is leaving GF "slowly" whatever the hell that means. She was feeling used, but I guess he talked her down from that and so I have stopped communicating with her, although it was hard with the holiday and the anniversary of the start of the relationship.

I'm not sure what's next, I'm trying to move forward but it's not easy not being able to talk to her or see her, and I (as well as her family, non work friend, and our therapist) am concerned for her well being which makes everything so much more difficult.

What exactly did you tell his girlfriend? Did you give her the evidence of the affair and tell her what your wife told you?

And have you exposed the affair at the workplace yet?

Outside of the above suggestions, I really don't see much hope. I am sorry. Dr Harley says to give it 2 years and if the affair has not ended that you should give up and move on. It sounds like you may be at that point.

I told GF everything wife told me, sent letter to workplace, but haven't heard anything from them. My outbursts have left me with credibility issues I'm sure, but I am also aware that OM had been spreading the word that I was controlling and abusive since the beginning (neither are true and it was one of the things that caused my wife to break free the first time). I wish I hadn't snapped, as my wife seems very aware at times that them working together is what keeps her stuck where she is with him.

I'm not wired to give up. Our doctor seems optimistic at our chances providing wife can survive her current self destructive path, and I can stay in the place I am.

It is strange to say, but we do love each other and care about each other very much (yes I know what she is doing doesn't show that, but what she's doing isn't about me).

At this point I suppose I'm looking for a place to vent a little, but also for any help on Plan B, or the three stages of love and how to lead from Withdrawn into Conflict.

Thank you again.

What does your doctor see that gives him optimism?

She seems to be of the opinion that my wife is going through things rooted in her less than perfect childhood, a rebelious phase that never took place in her youth because of her family situation.

She noted that it's very clear that we love and care about each other on a very deep level and mainatain a very strong connection inspite of the current situation.

It was also noted that my wife does not seem to "love" OM and continues to refer to it as "having strong feelings for", but doesn't know what the feelings are. She's desperately seeking validation from him, and while she knows it's bad and that he's bad for her, she can't stop.

Honestly I'm not going to kid myself, as long as she works with him and is trying to maintain whatever shred of secrecy is there (as I said, it would seem that people that work around them refuse to believe it) she isn't going to return, because she knows that a life with me means a change of jobs and the validation and self esteem she gets from that is something she does not want to lose.

Nowhereman, Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has specialized in infidelity for 40 years. It is his opinion that if an affair has not ended in 2 years, that it is hopeless and the betrayed spouse should move on. He doesn't say this because he is pessimistic, but because he is realistic.

The problem with enduring this kind of tragedy for this long is the horrible wear and tear on your psychological and physical well being. You are already suffering the effects of this long endurance:


Yes, men can endure this painful existence for a longer period of time than women, but even men have their breaking point. You have reached yours. Dr Harley does not believe the marriage is salvageable after a 2 year affair so more of the same on your part is going to be detrimental to your mental health. And you are already suffering the effects.

I would strongly suggest that you do into Plan B and file for divorce. You can't lose with that approach because if she has not ended her affair by the time the divorce is final you will be better off divorced. If she does leave the job and end her affair, you can drop the divorce. It is win/win. Whereas, staying in aimless limbo is the definition of loss because it only hurts, not helps.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? Are you familiar with Plan B?

Sir,
Get that poison out of your life.
Do you want to spend the rest of your life like this?

This is not a normal way to live.

Your counselor does not have the slightest idea what she is doing. This type of advice comes from counselors who are not equipped to deal with infidelity.

Your wife's childhood is not the problem and is a distraction from present day problems. We know why your wife had her affair: she has poor boundaries around men and allowed another man to meet her needs. As such, she fell in love with him.

here


Your wife may feel caring love for you but that won't keep a marriage together. As you can see for yourself. Your wife is not "in love" with you. She is "in love" with another man.

Once again, your counselor does not understand the dynamics of an affair and doesn't know what keeps a marriage together. Couples stay together when they are IN LOVE.


She is more than in love with him, she is ADDICTED to him. Asking your wife how she feels is like asking a falling down drunk how they feel about alcohol. You will get the same type of incoherent answer you got above. We can tell you EXACTLY how she feels about him. She is so deeply in love and so deeply addicted to him that she is willing to sacrifice everything good in life to be with him.

Please do yourself a favor and get your hands on the book Surviving an Affair so you can understand the dynamics of an affair. Write Dr Harley an email and get his input. If you include your phone # he will call you. Listen to people who understand infidelity. Your counselor does not. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Dr Harley defines the different types of "love" here:


here

It is romantic love that your wife feels for the OM. Dr. Harley explains why he focuses on restoring romantic love to the marriage, unlike other counselors:

here

My point is that caring love won't keep a marriage together. This is what your wife feels for you. But you already know this. Couples that are "in love" [romantic love] don't get divorced, though.

You need to listen to the advice here if you want to have any shot at saving your Marriage.

You have already seen the OM does not want to leave his GF but also want to keep his mistresss(your wife). Who wouldn't? That is some deal. You need to expose to his GF, give her any proof you have and ask her to help you end the A to save both of your relationships. This will not end on its own.

You need to tell the HR dept that if they don't step in you will take legal action against them. Also, you need to expose to all friends and family that have influence over your W and provide proof.

There is nothing else you can do at this point.

I disagree. Her issues are very much at the forefront of the situation, particularly when it comes to figuring out what needs he is actually fulfilling for her, and how.

When treating addiction, you don't simply replace one substance with another without dealing with the issues that cause a person to turn to the substance in the first place.

And yes, she is most certainly addicted, although I don't buy that addiction is nearly the same as "romantic love". If that was the case, the parrallel drawn would be that an addict would be "in love" with his dealer.

Again, I appreciate your responses and hope that my disagreements and counterpointing don't offend, it is simply how I process information.

Nope, the parallel would be that an addict would be 'in love' with his addictive substance and sometimes they actually use that terminology. I know an addict who describes his heroin as 'my best friend'.

We don't take offence to your disagreements, you are welcome to have them as its your relationship. But, the advice you are being given and state of mind come from Dr. Harley's MB program that has been developed for over 40 years.

Dr H has over 40 years of sampling data to know what works and what doesn't work. Counseling for personal issues is fine, but rationalizing your WW's behavior because of personal issues is absolutely the wrong thing to do. When treating an addict for alcohol or drugs you do not keep all the conditions in place that enabled their addiction. Most people go through detox forcefully, then go to a sober living facility to learn a lifestyle that makes it impossible to continue their addiction. Nobody is encouraged to go back into the same way of living that enabled their addictions.

If you don't take Dr. Harley's advice that is being given to you here, it will be disastrous for you and your Marriage. Its your choice and we will be here to help with the MB's program but we wont pat you on the back for not following the program. We have seen the success of those who follow the program and the failure of those who don't.

Read some of the threads and see how the program has worked for others. Read wifedivorcing's thread, his WW was an extreme case and even she is beginning to show promise because he followed the program.

Good luck, nobody here wants you to fail but its up to you.

Her "issues" are a distraction from the real problems. Examining her childhood will not help anything.


We KNOW the issue that led to her addiction and it was not her "childhood." It was her poor boundaries around men. When treating addiction, you first separate the addict from the source of his addiction. That is the first step to recovery.



You don't buy this because you have no understanding about what you are dealing with. You have defined all the elements of romantic love but since you don't understand it, you don't recognize it. I hope you have the ability to put aside your false notions and listen because you haves made dreadful mistakes all along the way.

Reposting for emphasis - this is the advice of Dr. Harley, clinical psychologist with over 40 years of experience not just in marriage counseling but also running a large chain of mental health clinics in Minnesota treating a wide variety of issues. If anybody knows counseling, it is Dr. Harley. Dr. Harley is also the creator of the Marriage Builders program, so if you are here, we presume you are interested in hearing his approach:

What is the legal action? This is something I have been searching for since they first expressed that "even if they are having an affair, it doesn't matter because it's not happening here."

----------------
Please don't take disagreeing as not accepting, listening to, or even following the advice. I appreciate every little bit I am getting, whether or not I disagree, as it allows me to better understand it all.

I am very much aware that ending the affair is what needs to happen, but again, the only thing that will likely do it is removing 1 or both from the job, which I have been unable to do because it would seem that nobody cares about it.

Her family knows, her friends know. She doesn't listen to either and again, the toxic circle she hangs out with are work friends and they seem to prefer to keep her drunk, they also seem to think Wife and OM are saints.

The feelings Wife expresses for other man have not been that of love. She feels used, has stated she hates how he makes her feel, wants him dead, to be punished because she's given up everything and he's nice and cozy in his life, and so on. He treats her like dirt and tosses a scrap every now and then, reeling her back in. I have a difficult time understanding how this meshes with "romantic love" as defined by Dr. Harley.

There seems to be very little being made as far as deposits and a great deal being withdrawn, which would lead me to believe that either the definition of romantic love is incorrect, or it doesn't always apply, which I begin to wonder about as I'm not sure how I fit into the definitions if I am still very much "in love" with my wife despite the current situation.

Again, this is not to start an argument, simply to better understand the theories and ideas from people who have been familiar with them longer.

It has been my theory that wife is much more "in love" with her job than either myself or OM, as it seems to be what actually provides her with fulfillment of her emotional needs. Unfortunately, keeping job means being "with" him and that has been a serious issue between us since her first indiscretion.

Where does it end?
At what point will you draw a line in the sand?

Does she have you shop for lingerie that he may like her to wear?
Should you buy the condoms for him?

When is it enough?

I don't see that you are trying to understand at all, but rather trying to inject your own pre-formed opinions. Lets hope that you can put aside those views and keep an open mind. Otherwise, most people won't waste much time with you. If you are here to learn, you will get lots of help. If you are here to debate the very basics, then you are wasting your time and ours.

The definition of romantic love is an incredible emotional attraction to a person of the opposite sex.[or same sex if one is so inclined] That is what your wife feels for the OM. She is very much in love with him, which explains the addiction. Just as an alocholic is "in love" with alcohol, your wife is "in love" with the OM. I understand you might not want to accept that and it really makes no difference in the larger scheme of things.

I don't believe you have a good understanding of the dynamics of an affair and believe that reading the book Surviving an Affair will help you tremendously. This lack of understanding has greatly hampered your ability to save your marriage, IMO. The book will also prepare you to go into Plan B by explaining the purpose and the tactics.


There have been some legal cases across the country where the betrayed spouse has sued the company of the wayward spouse for facilitating a workplace affair. You would need to check with an attorney in your state and find out if you have grounds.

The reason you don't understand it is because you don't understand the dynamics of an affair, which is an addiction that is fueled by romantic love. The feelings you describe above would very aptly apply to an alcoholic:


That is exactly how an alcoholic feels. It is a love/hate relationship. While alcohol is an inanimate object unlike an affair, an alcoholic feels incredible, overpowering LOVE for alcohol that supercedes everything else in life.

That is how your wife feels about the OM: an incredible romantic love that has reached the level of addiction.

You need to equate her affair to a substance addiction in order to understand it. It is an incredible, overpowering LOVE. In an affair, that love is romantic love.

You're free to think what you like, but I am learning a great deal through this process, and while I will likely continue to disagree with some things, I have an open mind about all of it.

I have also gone about this process in very much the way it has been suggested, although again I was late to this approach and the results have been shielded by the disbelief of the exposure targets.

Regardless of terminology, I am very much aware of the issues of the addiction, but am curious how one can return to a position of making love deposits and avoid making withdraws throughout exposure and the aftermath, as well as with Plan B. Ending the affair would seem to be rather destructive to the love bank if she is truly in love with OM.

You aren't understanding, her lovebank is closed to you. The point of Plan A is to make minimal deposits through change and thoughtful acts aka caring. In your Plan A you need to make permanent changes that can be sustainable. It also means you need to kill the affair and exposure is the quickest way possible. Will she be mad? For sure but in the long run it will open up more chances for LB deposits on your end. Once the affair is exposed (truth) the AP and the wayward spouse will fight. As the AP is draining lovebank $$ you will be adding. Eventually you will be higher than the AP and a more viable option for your WS. WS are selfish and only think about themselves and will go to the path of least resistance.

Plan B is for YOU! To protect your love bank from withdrawals of her affair. Because affairs are devastating. You are overthinking and making excuses instead of acting. If someone is dying and bleeding out you don't explain why direct pressure works, you just do it. Otherwise, they die. Afterwards when alll the chaos has cleared you explain it and they grasp it.

Each person has a separate account in the love bank. Your objective is to deplete and close the OM's account, and re-establish the preeminence of you own account. You can make no substantiative deposits as long as the OM's account is open. Your account will remain closed. The affair must end for his account to close and your account to reopen. This is the first step. Don't you see that?

Thank you, that is one part I'm trying to understand. How does one know if the bank is "open" so to speak? They have been fighting, but she ends up giving in to every half assed story he feeds her.

Right on TD. Your LB doesn't matter as long as the A is ongoing. Yours is closed for business and her LB is only open for the OM. You need to disrupt their fantasy and force his hand so he can love bust and deplete his LB balance.

You already said, he doesn't want to leave his wife/gf, this will cause huge problems in Affair Fantasy land when your WW implores him to do so and when the A is out for everyone to see.

Its because she is 'in love' with him. She wants to believe him because she wants to be in love because his balance in her LB is soo high, she can't help it.

You need to do everything to cause trouble and cause LB withdrawls so that she can stop caring so much. Remember she wants the fantasy, not the problems of a real relationship.

Quoted for emphasis.

The way you make deposits is to kill the affair. Until you do that her love bank is closed to you. It is just like the alcoholic, he has to FIRST sober up before he can do the steps.

You might disagree, but I would just point out that you have no basis to do so. Your own methods have not worked for you.

WS is synomous with selfish. Are you familiar with the giver and taker personas we each have? Her taker is in full control and doesn't want to give you anything, so you won't see any positive reinforcement for your actions. Only negative, just understand this is a smoke screen. Plan A without expecting anything in return. You need to expose like ML said. That is step one.

I am familiar with the concepts and have no expectations as far as getting anything in return, although it confuses me when I seem to get "positive reinforcement" as you say.

When will you be exposing the affair?

I did expose it. Nobody believed me until about 3 minutes ago, I sent GF message about them being together this morning and she has unfriended my wife on FB, changed her relationship status, and thanked me.

Now send a letter to the company President and a key VP exposing the affair.
Send an email to all family and friends of the OM and your wife. Today!

EDIT: Also, post the OM on the cheater exposure website www.cheaterville.com.

Who did you expose it to?

Who on OM's side did you expose it to?

Nowhereman,

You wrote I did expose it. Nobody believed me until about 3 minutes ago, I sent GF message about them being together this morning and she has unfriended my wife on FB, changed her relationship status, and thanked me.

Congratualations, please refer others who are hesitant to expose or incomplete when the time comes.

God Bless
Gamma

I still feel like nobody else believes me, or they just don't care. It's rather frustrating, as clearly the people at their job are either perfectly fine with them screwing around, or perfectly fine pretending it isn't happening and it makes me feel...frustrated.

Have you done this?

Yes, I did it all, but again I've heard nothing back.

Wife called this morning to accuse me of bugging her phone and reading her texts because OM's xGF apparently knew stuff about messages exchanged on Easter. Apparently OM accused me of doing it.

Is there any advice on continued contact with OM's GF/xGF as far as helping continue to kill the affair? I didn't know her before, and she's only sent the one message to me.

Has Cheaterville posted the picture of OM? If so, make sure you send him a link to it. You can go on the Cheaterville website and send they will send him a link by email!

I would stay in contact with OM Girlfriend. She can help keep you informed of what is going on, but do not reveal any spy techniques to her

These cheaters HATE internet exposure so when he finds out he is on Cheaterville he will be furious.
From the cheaterville website, send links to all of his friends and relatives.

EDIT: Also, make sure your exposure post was detailed and ideally has some PROOF attached as well.

Anybody know the inner workings of FB? He seems to have disappeared completely and I'm just wondering how complete you can be as far as hiding yourself from everyone except friends?

I'm sure he's blocked you or made it so private that only friends can see.

You can try to make a new FB with a new email. Why do you need to see his Facebook? Haven't you exposed him already?

Try signing out of your account and see if you can see him. Also, go to some of his friends and family Facebook pages to see if you can see him.

My sister-in-law was friends with him and is no longer, nor does he show up as a friend on anyone's page. It said "This page has been disabled", but I'm not FB savvy so I don't know if that actually means anything.

As far as why, I was curious when he suddenly disappeared from my wife's page; all his pictures became untagged and comments he made seem to have been deleted. Made me wonder if he was hiding or running, or a little of both.

Then that means he has disabled his account entirely.

I suppose the question now is...what's next?

It would seem that her work doesn't care, and I've heard nothing from anyone else except the GF.

I'm trying to work on me, get out and live, and all that. Is that all there is at this point?

What was your response to this? Does your wife know you are in contact with the GF?

I told her I didn't bug her phone, haven't seen anything since she moved out. She sounded like she believed me, but who knows.

OM showed her letter I sent right after it happened, as well as showing her what I sent the second time, so yes she knows. She thought GF didn't believe it first time and assumed that I had sent the additional message to try again, to which I pointed out that GF had already removed her from Instagram following on Easter; she knew or was trying to believe and I guess found evidence on her own, I just helped her become sure.

I am no longer in contact with GF though, as she requested that I not bother her again. I did wonder if maybe it's all him (i.e. he intercepted messages), but I don't think that's the case.

It probably was the OM texting you so I would plan to speak to her and just let her know that she should feel free to contact you with any new information about the affair.

I think it is a good idea that your wife and scumbag know that you will do everything to make sure people know about their affair. BE loud and proud about that without giving away your resources.

I wish I could be more optimistic, but most marriages don't come back from an affair that has gone on this long. Dr Harley recommends throwing in the towel if it does not end within 2 years. This has gone on for 2 years.

If I were in your shoes, I would go into Plan B and file for divorce for a couple of reasons. The first and most important is that I can see that you are suffering emotionally. You will suffer more when you continue your efforts in a hopeless situation. You will be spinning your wheels and it will just beat you down more.

The second reason is that you may be inadvertently propping up the affair by hanging around. The OM is a ratfink who will never take care of her. Without you around to take care of her, that will be more obvious to her. When you shut the door, the pressure will rise on the OM to step into the gap and take your place. He will never do that because he does not care about your wife. She is just some cheap side nookie to him.

You can't lose with this plan, because with the plan B letter you will give her a path back to your marriage by meeting your conditions [quit the job, end all contact for life, etc]. If she does meet those conditions, you will have a recovered marriage. If not, you will be divorced, which will be the definition of success if she doesn't change. This plan is win/win for you.

What do you think?

Have you read the book, Surviving an Affair? That explains the thinking behind Plan B.

Yes, it finally arrived in the mail last night and I have read it.

As far as time frame, the seggestions in it are 6 months of Plan A from Exposure and 2 years of Plan B, as after 2 years of separation it is unlikely the marriage will survive, are those the time frames you are referring to or is there another place where 2 years of an affair is mentioned?

Obviously we are already separated, but because of the rapid move from "discovery" to separated to exposure it feels as though there are negative feelings left (or at least she feels I've been mean to her), the disolution of which seems to be the premise of plan A.

Should I be leaving her with a more pleasant image of our relationship (the last 2 years have had some highs inspite of the lows, but the lows have been consistant because of OM) now that I am no longer trapped under a pile of lies?

Plan B is more than a separation. It is a plan that you initiate by sending her a Plan B letter and going completely dark. [letter pages 77-78 in SAA] Once you send the letter, you go completely dark and any pertinent information would be passed through a designated intermediary.

You have essentially been in a "PLan A" [trying to win your wife back] for 2 years now and the affair has not ended. Therefore, it is unlikely your marriage will recover. While Plan B is not intended to win your wife back, it does sometimes have that effect when the affair partner is expected to meet all of the WS's needs. That is what happened in the case of Sue and Jon in SAA.

I would prepare to go into Plan B in a week or 10 days. In that time, you should use every opportunity to leave a good taste in her mouth.

Here is a great primer about Plan B: How to Plan B

Well, GF is definitely in the process of leaving him, although he's apparently spent the last few days with GF talking. Wife thinks he's trying to take the heat. GF apparently tried contacting wife.

Employers apparently decided to look into affair, although a staff member in the know seems to believe there are no grounds for dismissal. Regardless wife is worried about losing job.

Wife is very stressed and seems depressed, I have some concerns about her health at this point.

That is a very typical reaction of someone who is deeply entrenched in an affair. Hopefully, she will finally decide to leave the job and end her affair if you go into Plan B. It sounds like your exposure is having a good effect, which is a good thing.

For how long have you been legally married? Is this the first marriage for both of you?

Did you live together before getting married?

You mentioned that her family knows about the affair. Do her parents know? What was their reaction when you asked for their help in ending the affair? What was your parents' reaction?

You haven't mentioned children - do you have any?

This is all very cagey. Who in her family knows what? You mention her sister quite a lot but never her parents. Do her parents know that she has abandoned you and your marriage to be with another man? What have they said to her about this?

She has two sisters, a mother, and two aunts. Her mother left her father for another man, she also suffers from some health issues, so she hasn't been quick to fight a battle with her. The family has made their dislike for OM and the situation known.

I lost my parents years ago (my father long before I met wife and mother a few years after I met wife), so they don't say much either way

Married 7 years, together 14. Lived together for 3 years prior to marriage. 1st marriage. 4 dogs, no kids.

Did you post him on Cheaterville?