As so many good people have noted here, how I wish I'd found this place sooner!!!
I finally was able to discover the identity of the OW last year, and that it was a LTA spanning 6 years. Somehow by God's grace I was able to get WH to move my 3 older kids and I far from where WH and OW planned their future.
Tech is the bane of my existence; I try so hard but it's like a learning disability. Fear and terror have held me hostage for years. The brilliant guidance I've studied here has me motivated to try to fix the series of mistakes I've made and to kill the affair once and for all.
We are trying to settle in but WH is miserable and there are red flags galore. Distance is no barrier to the type of "intimacy" OW offers my WH; in fact their cheating seems to have been long distance often through the years.
I have noticed odd things with his phone, and a few very suspicious calls at absolutely suspicious times and places. I "know" something's up, and if I'm wrong it would only be a matter of time before they resume or someone else comes along. He had a CSAT evaluation and is definitely an addict.
The OW is younger, WH was her counselor. He would have gotten in serious trouble WH gaslighting (and my own lack of self respect) had me terrified of being left homeless and destitute. We had a total FR before moving; WH is a brilliant liar, and draws on the corrupt expertise of OW who was an HR Investigator. I had to place everything on hold in order to move. I love where we are, but my marriage has no safety at all.
But I have managed a few exposures so far and will spend tonight working on writing more. It gives me awful panic attacks, but I understand the importance of exposure and am just going keep trying and suck it up. I am so very grateful to have been able to learn about it FINALLY.
For anybody trapped in fear and confusion like myself, writing drafts, etc. -- just the first attempts, persevering through the initial terror is magnificent!
I got SSA, have listened to the radio, and am trying to correct my numerous tactical and behavioral mistakes.
At this point, I have zero reason to believe anything WH says or does regarding infidelity. But I did manage to get his phone, but it is so, so hard for me to snoop properly due to tech ignorance. I called a computer guy today, and am trying to line up a polygraph examiner. I found that he never blocked OW on his phone, and a number of glaring red flags.
I wish everyone a happy and stress-free Thanksgiving!
Welcome to MB and so sorry for what you�re going through.
Could you please clarify a few things?
How long have you been married? Is the OW married? Was the affair exposed? If so, who have you exposed to? Do your kids know? Does he still work at the same job? What spyware do you have in place?
Thanks for the kind words Mr. Hurts; they actually have me tearing up.
We have been married 26 years. The OW is single, and the affair would be considered highly unethical even by die-hard cheaters, I suspect.
I am working on exposure just recently as a result of studying MB. DD about 19 months ago, took me AGES to snoop the old-fashioned way, techno-phobe that I am.
Oh yes I told my kids, although the Internet seemed to say, "That's Abusive". I simply could not bear any more lies and falsity, and I was in a sort of protracted nervous breakdown. I felt so guilty, two of them are adopted and one was already in therapy for assorted issues. (guilty because I was acutely aware of the numerous high-functioning couples out there more deserving) The eldest was struggling with substance abuse and ODed during one of the times WH left to stay at parents for weeks at a time.
WH convinced me he was involved with a young lady at his night classes for at least 6 months; I texted her to tell her to back off and was blasted with the most vile hatred. (tempted to expose to her, come to think about it.) Long story short, WH supposedly transferred her case to a female BFF co-worker (whom I only discovered through phone records was a friend with my primitive spying skills) I sent a letter to her at the office last week asking for her help if she has any influence. But she is also blind, and I have no reply nor do I know if she received my letter.
I exposed to his parents which was useless. ( WH called to follow up, God bless him, and I heard the whole weird conversation on speaker phone.)
WH never officially ended it with OW. My then-therapist urged me absolutely not to expose for fear of lawsuits and getting WH fired or worse.
I'm trying to finish a letter to some key people in OW's career path, as she purports to be a voice for the disabled, and this has me bogged down so far.
WH got another job far away and we moved. He is horribly over-qualified; it's a big step down, BUT this is the same Fed agency they had planned on working together at. It would not surprise me if she is here, I think it's safe to say this one is of the most unpleasant variety of Mate Poachers. She has allegedly attempted to blackmail WH twice, but offered to put him up in her luxury apartment and pay for restaurants, etc. if he will divorce me.
For a number of reasons, especially the witchcraft practices and the creepy plots allegedly planned for my demise or mental breakdown, she really scared me. I was scared anyway, but am working on it.
Spyware!!!! No, but I called an IT guy today. OW is super tech savvy (relies heavily on it for daily life) and I have pretty good and rational reasons to suspect she has spooked me for ages before I ever knew about her.
Today I found that WH had never even blocked her on his phone. I'm praying to find someone who can fix me up with the necessary surveillance. I've put away a little stash of money to cover. Am going to have one of the kids set me up a secret email account. Although it wouldn't surprise me if she and WH already have the goods on me and are 10 steps ahead.
Hi materdei, welcome to Marriage Builders. It doesn't really sound like your husband has done anything towards recovery other than moving. And even then, you suspect the OW might have moved to your area. Has he complied with all of the items on the checklist from SAA?
From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67
The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.
These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.
Checklist for How Affairs Should End
_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.
_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.
_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:
_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).
_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).
_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).
_____Spend leisure time together.
_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.
_____Avoid overnight separation.
_____Allow technical accountability.
_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.
When was his last contact with the OW? Has he sent her no contact letter? And are you aware that he can lose his license for having an affair with a client? He SHOULD lose his license because he is unethical.
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent.
[from SAA, pg 58]
OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely, XXXXX
WH got another job far away and we moved. He is horribly over-qualified; it's a big step down, BUT this is the same Fed agency they had planned on working together at. It would not surprise me if she is here, I think it's safe to say this one is of the most unpleasant variety of Mate Poachers. She has allegedly attempted to blackmail WH twice, but offered to put him up in her luxury apartment and pay for restaurants, etc. if he will divorce me.
Seems like he has to find another job if you want to recover.
Hi materdei, welcome to Marriage Builders. It doesn't really sound like your husband has done anything towards recovery other than moving. And even then, you suspect the OW might have moved to your area. Has he complied with all of the items on the checklist from SAA?
No, he has not complied with the checklist, but he has looked at it. Last April (pre MB awareness) I asked him to write a mere symbolic letter to OW and it got really ugly. If I recall, this would have led to him getting to the clinical therapist, but they were just starting where we lived and their recovery program only started when we were moving, so that was left hanging.
WH thinks he has made the ultimate gesture of fidelity by moving (and he hates it here, and says he hates his new job, and that we forfeited in-state pre=paid college, no future for the kids, etc.)
I realize how paranoid I appear, but if even half of the Machiavellian schemes reported are true, OW coming out here would be logical. Also, I was using Find My Friends, and according to it, WH has been leaving during breaks to a close by residential address. I've no idea about the accuracy in this geographical area, except this app was extremely helpful in uncovering some very important information in the past. So, despite his taking offense at my suspicions, I am not dismissing the possibility at this time.
Without these extraordinary precautions in place it is only a matter of time=FACT.
WH got another job far away and we moved. He is horribly over-qualified; it's a big step down, BUT this is the same Fed agency they had planned on working together at. It would not surprise me if she is here, I think it's safe to say this one is of the most unpleasant variety of Mate Poachers. She has allegedly attempted to blackmail WH twice, but offered to put him up in her luxury apartment and pay for restaurants, etc. if he will divorce me.
Seems like he has to find another job if you want to recover.
Yep. He looks every day but so far nothing to apply for. Also, it is already bad for the Love Bank because he has to work at night, 45 minutes away. That would be stressful even if we were not in a marriage crisis.
[
Without these extraordinary precautions in place it is only a matter of time=FACT.
The time is now, though. If he doesn't adhere to every one of those EP's you should separate and go into Plan B. You don't wait around for it happen again, you separate. The checklist is not negotiable because it is the only way your marriage can recover. Unless he is sincere about protecting you, this is hopeless. And it doesn't sound like he is serious in the least.
When was his last contact with the OW?
WH has been leaving during breaks to a close by residential address.
Who lives there?
[
Yep. He looks every day but so far nothing to apply for. Also, it is already bad for the Love Bank because he has to work at night, 45 minutes away. That would be stressful even if we were not in a marriage crisis.
What does he do for a living? This is a set up for disaster.
Also, I was using Find My Friends, and according to it, WH has been leaving during breaks to a close by residential address.
BUT this is the same Fed agency they had planned on working together at. It would not surprise me if she is here,
What are you doing to find out who lives there?
Materdei, this sounds nothing like a real recovery, rather it is a twisted game of cat and mouse. This will never lead to recovery.
When was his last contact with the OW? Has he sent her no contact letter? And are you aware that he can lose his license for having an affair with a client? He SHOULD lose his license because he is unethical.
He is not licensed, but a marriage counselor we visited informed us he would have been obligated to report had there been a license.
I think he's lucky to have a job, period. The ethics violations for he and OW are substantial and wrong.
When was his last contact with the OW? Has he sent her no contact letter? And are you aware that he can lose his license for having an affair with a client? He SHOULD lose his license because he is unethical.
He is not licensed, but a marriage counselor we visited informed us he would have been obligated to report had there been a license.
I think he's lucky to have a job, period. The ethics violations for he and OW are substantial and wrong.
What is his career?
His career was Vocational Rehabilitation for particular disability. One thorn in my side is that when he gets angry, he tells me that I ruined his career. He still protects OW's career, which he was instrumental in forming and authorizing generous sums to facilitate.
Wow, I hadn't noticed your other posts, Melody! Let me get to your comments and questions
*he says last contact was end of Aug. 2017, a phone call.
*no clue how to find out who lives there--maybe get White Pages again for reverse addresses and phone numbers? But I didn't even consider this so THANK YOU
*Yes, a twisted game of cat and mouse, a very intuitive comment. This is nothing like a real recovery. It is a ticking time bomb with two people who also love intrigue and deception.
His career was Vocational Rehabilitation for particular disability. One thorn in my side is that when he gets angry, he tells me that I ruined his career. He still protects OW's career, which he was instrumental in forming and authorizing generous sums to facilitate.
The fact that he blames you for his unprofessional behavior is another huge red flag. If he is blaming you, he is obviously not taking accountability which is what is necessary for radical changes.
*no clue how to find out who lives there--maybe get White Pages again for reverse addresses and phone numbers? But I didn't even consider this so THANK YOU
Go to white pages and do a reverse look up. If that doesn't give you any real answers you can drive there when you know he is there and knock on the door. Which you should probably do anyway.
*Yes, a twisted game of cat and mouse, a very intuitive comment. This is nothing like a real recovery. It is a ticking time bomb with two people who also love intrigue and deception.
When does he go to work again?
[quote]Also, I was using Find My Friends, and according to it, WH has been leaving during breaks to a close by residential address.
I would also get spyware on his phone. Webwatcher is a good one.
https://www.webwatcher.com/
Tomorrow at 2:00 he leaves. I have a visual impairment which prevents me from driving highways or at night, otherwise I'd go check the area out, and specific addresses.
They had a plan for our former city in which they would lure me to her place (WH gets me insanely angry, and I guess they figured I'd take an Uber?) Then I would be acused of
He has just told me he will write her a letter today. I'm going to check the basic format. I must say, Dr. Harley is much more gentle than I would be in tone!!!
Tomorrow at 2:00 he leaves. I have a visual impairment which prevents me from driving highways or at night, otherwise I'd go check the area out, and specific addresses.
They had a plan for our former city in which they would lure me to her place (WH gets me insanely angry, and I guess they figured I'd take an Uber?) Then I would be acused of
So you can take an uber, right? Did you run a reverse look up?
He has just told me he will write her a letter today. I'm going to check the basic format. I must say, Dr. Harley is much more gentle than I would be in tone!!!
What about the other things on the list?
Where we live now is remote and there are no Ubers or public transportation.
I bought the webwatcher package, but installation is not supported because my Mac is not the right type.
Denture-Gnashing!!!
The good news is that I was able to actually get that far.
Can old macbook pros be updated to accommodate this spyware?
I pray its ok if WH knows I did this -it's his credit card...
Now I can go buy Whitepages, I know how to do that.
I don't even know how to thank you for the support. May God bless you.
Where we live now is remote and there are no Ubers or public transportation.
I bought the webwatcher package, but installation is not supported because my Mac is not the right type.
Denture-Gnashing!!!
The good news is that I was able to actually get that far.
What do you mean your MAC? It goes on his cell phone and then you track it via a website.
I pray its ok if WH knows I did this -it's his credit card...
Nononono, do not let him know! That completely defeats the purpose.
Where we live now is remote and there are no Ubers or public transportation.
So what are your options?
You said your adult children moved with you. Can one of them drive you?
Nononono, do not let him know! That completely defeats the purpose.
[/quote]
I am so ignorant and backward, must figure out a way to cancel this before he checks the crdit card online
I have never had a separate email
minor panic attack
I will have to start over again with surveillance, and continue with the exposure. I had to much going on all at once for Thanksgiving and was so eager to do get this done that I messed this up. Beating myself up any longer won't help; I need to sleep and eat so that I do not make such tactical and costly mistakes. I will continue with the exposure letters, which I write by hand, and get my own credit card from my account.
This cat-and-mouse business is a pathetic way to live. Trying to outsmart such cunning people with so little sleep will not work.
II will continue with the exposure letters, which I write by hand, and get my own credit card from my account.
MD, I would get this done today; it is best to get it done all in a 48 hour window otherwise it has the effect of a trickle exposure. You don't need to hand write them. Send them via email, facebook or text.
What are you saying in your exposure letters?
My cover completely blown re: webwatchers, but they should give me a refund. My laptop too old to support it. He's been watching me like a hawk for awhile now.
I think I need to create a private internet identity for myself. Make a private email account, learn how to cover my tracks. I've never had Facebook or anything like that.
The few letters I've sent were long, because I have no actual proof except written statements (which I at least took photos of on my phone and secured my phone) I described the situation and the grave for both parties professionally and said I love my husband - - asked if they have any influence to please help save my H going down the dark path. Sent photo of mugshot of OW's father to fancy status-conscious in-laws as proof. WH called his dad in front of me, and FIL praised him. MIL is a shrink; thought she'd be concerned but nope.
WH sullied my reputation far and wide, which is why I took such care in writing
he interrupted
cannot do anything when he's home
II will continue with the exposure letters, which I write by hand, and get my own credit card from my account.
MD, I would get this done today; it is best to get it done all in a 48 hour window otherwise it has the effect of a trickle exposure. You don't need to hand write them. Send them via email, facebook or text.
What are you saying in your exposure letters?
I describe the situation, tell the person that WH respects him and so do I. I ask for help not allowing WH to go down such a dark path and mention how my kids all need therapy now. I say how I love my husband and will work very hard repairing my side of the fence so that we can move past this and keep the family intact.
Or I describe the situation in which public resources were mis-used and my husband lost his career while OW gets to move upward into a situation requiring very strict ethics and boundaries. I describe the affair recovery therapy and meetings he has attended and work done to prevent this thus far. That I am eager to help him recover and not make the worst mistake of his life.
Can someone help with setting up a FB account so I don't do some stupid blunder again? (never had FB)
[quote=materdei]
Go to white pages and do a reverse look up. If that doesn't give you any real answers you can drive there when you know he is there and knock on the door. Which you should probably do anyway.
This is close to the ruse OW concocted to lure me to her other place. She would have WH hide before I got there. A rehearsed situation in which I would be accused of harassing and scaring a blind person (her [sighted] friend would say she saw me threatening the poor dear) cops would be called and I would be (hopefully) hysterical and thoroughly discredited, working in her favor in the divorce she wants to happen.
So for something like this, I mean to avoid something like this, would a PI be better?
RE: White Pages-- I got a new account and OW has scrubbed herself right off of there.
Just found out more lies. Found an email to craigslist for a one bedroom apartment (somewhere in our former city) sandwiched in between emails to realtor here in our new place. The explanation was, something about we weren't getting along and it was just in case. No clue how to find out if he rented something for those months before moving.
Have left two messages to the most accredited polygraph examiner who is somewhat local.
There are so many lies and odd coincidences (which I do not believe in). Need to think long and hard about a careful Plan B. I only have a small amount of money to spend on safety and security measures so I need to choose my battles wisely. I am dealing with an extremely motivated and polished secret life person.
Can you hire a PI to get all the goods? Are you getting ready for Plan B?
Hi BrainHurts! (First my apologies for mistaking your name upthread.)
Good question about a PI, which I'd do in a heartbeat if money were no object. But do I want to pay extra, when I will need some financial autonomy for a careful Plan B.
Undecided as yet.
I was set to drop $500 on a poly but I already *know* that I am being lied to and gaslighted by my husband. I thanked him for saving me the money which can be used for Christmas, because he is desperate to keep his nice iphone.
WH cannot explain the endless anomalies, says he does not know how to even use the phone's built-in features, or about deletions which require 3 steps to perform, cannot remember received [sketchy as you-know-what] phone calls, doesn't know how he dialed a google voice call, etc. etc. He really over-did it with the fake tech ignorance. Not to mention the AP has advanced surveillance/tech abilities and resources far beyond the average person, due to special circumstances.
Why would one be so desperate to keep a phone which is just too sophisticated to use, has applications that when accessed cannot be explained, records calls that did not happen, I asked. Why pay so much for a smartphone that reveals so much, but when it is used cannot be explained? What's the point if Find Friends is inaccurate? (which it's not; that's how I discovered some very important facts)
So, yes I am very very interested in Plan B.