Marriage Builders
Posted By: Suzet* Discussion on Biblical Divorce & Remarriage - 10/20/05 09:00 AM
The following posts are moved from another thread for the purpose of starting a separate thread on the topic of Biblical Divorce & Remarriage. Everyone who want to join in and add to this discussion are welcome to do so:

[color:"brown"]ORIGINALLY POSTED BY FOREVERHERS: [/color]

I also know of Pastors who HAVE refused to perform a marriage ceremony(1st, 2nd, etc.) after meeting with the prospective bride and groom because they don't, or haven't, accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior and refuse God as LORD of their lives. I, myself, was in that category because I did not receive Christ until two months before we were scheduled to be married, and I knew that Pastor Ron would NOT marry an "unevenly yoked" couple.

I think in the area of a divorced person, especially one who may have been the "unfaithful spouse," if they have subsequently surrendered to God and repented of the sin, they should be allowed to marry. But I would advise them to NOT take the step of a "2nd Marriage" lightly. They need to know and understand that their "repentance" can't be for "just show." They have to mean it and they have to be committed to living their lives and their impending marriage FOR God from this day forward and leaving the "past wrong choices" in the past.

Peter denied Christ three times, and Jesus "held Peter's feet to the fire" when He asked him three times..."Peter, do you love me?" Jesus "impressed upon Peter" the seriousness and totality of that commitment to God in LOVE, and then restored him fully. I'd call that a "pretty good model for second chances after willful, and serious, sin.

God bless.
[color:"brown"]ORIGINALLY POSTED BY SUZET*: [/color]

Quote
To add to the conversation, the Bible did allow someone to remarry, although it was not God's desire as Jesus pointed out, but it was an exception mediated with God by Moses.
True. God only allowe divorce and remarriage because of the hardness of people’s hearts, but it's still outside His will.

Askme, I once had many questions on divorce and remarriage and many things in the Script just didn’t made sense to me. In my search for answers I have found the following website:

Biblical Divorce and Remarriage:

]http://www.frankcaw.com/divorce.html[/b]

The above link provided all the answers and explanations I was looking for and helped to put everything in perspective ‘logically’ and from a Biblical point of view. The above link has also shown me that it’s important to look at the whole Bible and ALL its contents (Old and New Testament) in the search for answers and interpretations on a certain topic and not to take a certain verse or part in the Bible out of it's context and try to form a viewpoint/interpretation based on that alone.

I’ve just noticed the above link is currently unavailable. It gave the message “The requested URL could not be retrieved”, so I’m not sure whether the link don’t exist anymore or is just temporarily unavailable. A few months ago I have stored all the information on that link on my hard drive, so here it is:
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[b]Biblical Divorce And Re-Marriage


During Bible times, the Jewish Law recognized several basic moral justifications for divorce or nullification of a marriage covenant or contract between a man and his wife.

Those Old Testament justifications were ordained by God Himself because they were based on the scriptural passages quoted below, and they generally involved the moral failure of either spouse to perform their duty in the provision of food, clothing, reasonable marital obligations and sexual fidelity. (See Biblical Divorce And Remarriage by Rev. Dr. David Instone Brewer.)

Moreover, common sense logic and other biblical scriptures obviously require us to add violence and health-or-life-threatening abuse to our list of moral justifications because such evil activities are always prohibited for everyone, regardless of their marital status in life.

[color:"blue"] ]Exodus 21:10-11
10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money. (KJV)

Deuteronomy 24:1-2
1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

2 And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's wife. (KJV)

Exodus 20:14, 17
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.

17 Thou shalt not covet.... thy neighbour's wife.... (KJV) [/color]

The first scriptural passage, quoted above, addresses an archaic social situation that does not even apply to our society today, but we can derive general moral principles from its text because God is a God of logical consistency.

However, to understand Exodus 21:10-11 properly, we must view this passage in its immediate scriptural context, i.e., Exodus 21:7-11.

Accordingly, if a Jewish man sold his daughter to be a servant, she did not become a free person even if she became the wife of her new owner.

But, if the owner/husband decided he did not care for her, then she could be redeemed by her family; otherwise, she remained his wife. Nor under any circumstances could she be sold to Gentiles. (Ex. 21:7-8).

Likewise, if she was betrothed to her master's son, she was to be dealt with as if she was his own daughter; and she could not be sold. (Ex. 21:9).

Furthermore, if the owner/husband took another wife, he remained obligated to his slave-wife in terms of material support and marriage duties. (Ex. 21:10). But, if he refused to honor such obligations, then she was to be set free immediately without any need for her family to redeem her with money. (Ex. 21:11).

Thus, even slave wives, in ancient Jewish society, were protected in their marriages against extreme spousal neglect so far as their material and sexual needs were concerned.

Therefore, God's Moral Law permits divorce if either the husband or the wife fails to honor the marriage covenant in matters pertaining to food, clothing (and shelter), reasonable sexual relations, marital faithfulness and non-violent treatment.

Unfortunately, by the time in which Jesus lived, two major schools of thought among the teachers of the religious law, i.e., the Pharisees, had developed and coalesced around differing interpretations for the word "uncleanness" in Deuteronomy 24:1.

One line of thought maintained that the scriptural passage pertained strictly to matters of sexual impurity, whereas the opposing school of thought insisted on expanding the meaning of impurity to include virtually anything a man might find displeasing about his wife in any aspect of their lives together.

However, the word translated as "uncleanness" in Deuteronomy 24:1 comes from the Hebrew word `ervah (er-vaw'), which means "nudity, literally (especially the pudenda) or figuratively (disgrace, blemish)."

It is translated as "nakedness" or "shame" or "unclean(ness)" in the King James Version of the Bible.

Furthermore, it is based on the Hebrew word 'arah, which means "to make bare; empty; destitute; discover; make naked; uncover."

So, apparently the thought behind this passage involves discovering or uncovering something about the wife that previously was not known by the husband.

But, exactly what kind of "uncleanness" is meant here is not known — although judging from the Hebrew dictionary definitions given above, it would allude to something discovered that was shameful, and disappointing, and extremely dislikeable.

We do know, however, that if the word "uncleanness" is a reference to the moral sin of adultery, as in Deuteronomy 22:13-24, then the Law demanded the death penalty.

Evidently, Moses realized that if the letter of the Law was always enforced in such matters, there would be excessive numbers of executions due to the extremely lax moral standards which prevailed among the Israelites at that time.

For that reason, he may have decided to modify the Law by permitting a wife to clear herself with a solemn oath in some cases (Num. 5:11-31), and in other instances, by allowing the husband to divorce his wife, privately, without subjecting her to a trial. (Deut. 24:1-4; Matt. 1:19).

Nevertheless, as noted previously, many of the Pharisees in ancient Jewish society taught that the only necessary requirement for obtaining a divorce, according to Mosaic Law, was a legal certificate of divorce; otherwise, they believed a man could divorce his wife for any reason whatsoever.

In actuality, Moses permitted (not commanded) such lax rules regarding divorce because although God hates divorce, God was forced to choose between the lesser of two evils in a sinful society in order to maximize the amount of good possible under the circumstances when no other viable option was available.

That is the real reason He instructed Moses to issue such a decree. Thus, by allowing this decree to exist, God accomplished two very important objectives.

First, sinful men were discouraged from leading illicit lifestyles in an attempt to avoid marriages from which they could not escape legally.

Likewise, it also protected women against retribution, or even murder, from resentful and dissatisfied husbands who might want a divorce for any number of flimsy reasons.

So, it was not surprising that, early in His ministry, Jesus expressed His opinion regarding this one particular aspect of the divorce laws, i.e., the controversy that surrounded the word "uncleanness." Thus, His New Covenant proclamation decreed that only fornication, i.e., spiritual and/or sexual immorality, was justification for a divorce, thereby implying that mere displeasure over trivial matters of life were not.

However, please note in the following scriptural passage that Jesus never questioned or challenged the continued validity of other Old Testament moral justifications for divorce. Instead, He simply addressed the singular issue of what the word "uncleanness" in Deuteronomy 24:1 truly meant in its application.

[color:"blue"] Matthew 5:31-32
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. (KJV) [/color]

Since Jesus did not take issue with the other moral grounds for divorce which God previously had decreed, we may conclude they remain in force today because they are moral laws which reflect God's eternal, unchanging moral character, not mere ceremonial laws lacking innate moral value in and of themselves.

That is why the New Covenant, personified in Christ Jesus, reaffirmed and sometimes even expanded on the moral commandments that had been given in the Old Covenant, but did not include any of its ceremonial and symbolic laws.

As confirmation, the apostle Paul later affirmed this entire matter in a more positive manner when he elaborated on the duties and obligations that are inherent within all Christian marriages. (I Corinthians 7) (Ephesians 5:23-33).

As even further confirmation, later we will analyze how the biblical principle of Objective Moral Relativism sheds additional insight on why there are moral justifications for obtaining a biblical divorce, in extreme situations, that go beyond any specific scriptural instruction.

Naturally, the religious critics and hypocrites did not wait very long before asking Jesus to clarify and defend His proclamation in Matthew 5:32 regarding the true meaning for "uncleanness" or "impurity."

[color:"blue"] Matthew 19:3-9
3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. (KJV) [/color]

Compare the following parallel passages:

[color:"blue"]Mark 10:2-12
2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.

3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?

4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.

5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.

6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;

8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.

9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.

11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (KJV)

Luke 16:18
18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. (KJV)

Malachi 2:14-16
14 Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.

15 And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

16 For the LORD, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away: for one covereth violence with his garment, saith the LORD of hosts: therefore take heed to your spirit, that ye deal not treacherously. (KJV)[/color]

Now the question arises as to how the word "fornication" should be defined. According to the Christian Bible, fornication means:

(1) Any sexually-intimate relationship or activity except for those which occur between a man and his wife. (Matt. 5:32; Matt. 19:9; Luke 16:18; Mark 10:2-12; I Cor. 7:2; I Cor. 10:8; I Thess. 4:3; Rev. 9:21; Deut. 27:20-23; Lev. 20:10-21; Lev. 18:6-23; Exodus 22:16.)

(2) Incest. (I Cor. 5:1; I Cor. 10:8; Lev. 18:6-23.)

(3) Idolatry and adultery in honor of idol gods. (II Chron. 21:11; Isa. 23:17; Ezek. 16:15, 26, 29; Acts 15:20, 29; Acts 21:25; Rev. 2:14-21; Rev. 14:8; Rev. 17:2-4; Rev. 18:3-9; Rev. 19:2.)

(4) Natural harlotry. (John 8:41; I Cor. 6:13-18.)

(5) Spiritual harlotry or unfaithfulness. (Ezek. 16:15, 26, 29; Rev. 17:2-4; Rev. 18:3-9; Rev. 19:2.)

(6) Sodomy, homosexuality, bestiality and male prostitution. (I Cor. 6:9-11; Heb. 12:16; Jude 6-7; Romans 1:24-29; II Cor. 12:21; Gal. 5:19; Eph. 5:3; Col. 3:5. See also: Gen. 19:5-8; Exodus 22:19; Lev. 18:22-23; Lev. 20:13-16; Deut. 23:17; Deut. 27:21; Judges 19:22; I Kings 14:24; I Kings 15:12; I Kings 22:46; II Kings 23:7.)

Therefore, fornication can be defined as any type of sexual or spiritual unlawfulness or unfaithfulness. This means, according to Matthew 5:31-32, that any such behavior is biblical grounds for divorce.

Sometimes Matthew 5:31-32 is taken out of context and interpreted to mean that if a man arbitrarily divorces his wife without just biblical cause, i.e., fornication, then she — the innocent victim — is guilty of committing adultery (if she marries again, according to a parallel scripture in Matthew 19:9).

However, we should analyze this passage more carefully by balancing it against everything else the Bible teaches regarding God's moral laws because, quite often, one scriptural passage will clarify the meaning of another passage by giving us additional insight.

Accordingly, in this instance, we should note that the Bible teaches we will reap what we sow, and that we will be rewarded or punished according to what we have done in this lifetime.

Therefore, God never condemns a person (male or female; Galatians 3:28) for the sins and wrongdoing of another person; each of us is responsible solely for our own deeds and misdeeds.

Moreover, words often can be a cumbersome tool for expressing ideas with complete accuracy and precision — especially if contextual and cultural and language translation issues are not accounted for properly.

Thus, a plausible explanation for the passage in Matthew 5:31-32 could be that women who do not object to an unjust divorce by their husbands would be willing participants in the divorce action, so they would be equally guilty of adultery under the Moral Law of God if they ever remarried.

Conversely, however, if a woman objects to an unbiblical divorce action by her husband, then she must be held blameless for something her husband does against her will. Under such circumstances, then, she would be free to remarry because divorce by its very nature, i.e., termination of the marriage covenant or contract, makes that marriage contract null and void.

Please bear in mind that the word "contract" is just another name for the word "covenant," and for a contract or covenant to be valid and morally-enforceable, it must willingly be agreed to by both parties to the contract.

If either party to the contract or covenant violates any of the terms contained within the contract, or even outright abolishes the contract, then, of course, the other party is no longer obligated to the contract, either, because the contract no longer exists.

For example, the Old Covenant was superseded and replaced by the New Covenant personified in Christ Jesus. God's eternal covenant with Abraham was conditioned on his continued obedience to God during his lifetime.

God's covenant with the nation of Israel was conditioned on their continued obedience — which helps to explain God's complex dealings with Israel during these "last days." Moreover, God's covenant with the nation of Israel will be superseded by a new and better covenant during the future Millennial Reign of Christ on the earth, etc., etc..

Likewise, sometimes it is argued that both Luke 16:18 and Matthew 5:31-32 do not condemn a man if he divorces his wife for just cause and then marries again, but that nothing is said about a woman having the same equal right.

Or they might argue that the "rules" are different for men and women because the man is the "head" of the wife.

But, such arguments are refuted by the following scriptural passage:

[color:"blue"] Galatians 3:28
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (KJV) [/color]

In other words, there is no distinction made between men and women in matters involving God's moral laws because everyone is judged on an absolutely equal basis!

Therefore, moral instructions in the Bible generally apply equally to both men and women except for those which define the different, respective roles or functions of men and women within the family structure.

That concept explains why Jesus appeared to repeat Himself in the following passage; He wanted to make it perfectly clear that His teaching concerning divorce and remarriage applied equally to both genders:

[color:"blue"]Mark 10:11-12
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery. (KJV) [/color]

Sometimes it is said that a marriage covenant can never be terminated because of the following passage:

[color:"blue"] Matthew 19:6
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. (KJV)[/color]

But, it is possible for someone to tear apart whom God has joined together. Otherwise, it would have been pointless for God to say "let no man tear them apart." (Compare Matt. 19:6-8.) In actuality, the above scriptural passage simply declares the moral ideal which God intended for all marriages; unfortunately, the sinful reality can be different.

So, if the reality is that a married couple have been torn apart, i.e., divorced, then the marriage covenant, by definition, is null and void. Therefore, the victim, i.e., the offended party, is single and free to remarry because how could God hold the unwilling victim of an unjust divorce action responsible for what has happened?

It would make far more sense for God to hold the offending party responsible for the sin that occurred, rather than punishing or blaming the offended party by condemning that innocent person to a lifetime of loneliness and incompleteness as a single person.

[color:"blue"] Luke 16:18
18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery. (KJV) [/color]

At first glance, this passage might seem to indicate that if a man divorces his wife for any reason at all and then remarries, he is automatically guilty of adultery.

But in order to achieve a proper perspective, we must consider other parallel scriptural passages which deal with this same issue, and then balance them against the above scripture to achieve a complete and balanced viewpoint. By doing so, it becomes apparent that fornication by a person's spouse is sufficient biblical justification for divorce and remarriage.

However, we should observe that Scripture does not insist on a person divorcing their unfaithful spouse; only that they are justified, morally, if they wish to do so.

Although we should forgive the marital betrayal by releasing any feelings of hatred or anger or resentment or revenge for both scriptural and health reasons, continuation of the marriage union is not commanded in the Bible under such circumstances. Instead, it is a matter for free-will individuals to decide for themselves.

Sometimes people will ask if "mental adultery" by their spouses provides them with sufficient grounds for a biblical divorce, so here is what Jesus had to say about the matter:

[color:"blue"] Matthew 5:27-28
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (KJV) [/color]

Because God is logically consistent, His moral laws encompass the entirety of human experience in both the material and spiritual realms of existence. Therefore, we are guilty of adultery whether it is an accomplished physical act of infidelity or an adulterous fantasy indulged in for sexual pleasure.

Of course, the consequences resulting from physical acts of adultery generally are more severe and noticeable than immoral sexual fantasies, but nevertheless, both are wrong to one degree or another.

However, one very important point to keep in mind is that we are not guilty of sin merely because Satan tempts us with evil thoughts. The sin occurs if, and when, we give in to the temptation by dwelling on the evil thought and deriving pleasure from it.

The right thing to do in such moments is quickly to dismiss the evil thoughts when they occur and to have nothing to do with them. As Christians, we must not forget that Satan truly is our adversary, walking about as a lion seeking to devour its prey:

[color:"blue"] 1 Peter 5:8
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (KJV) [/color]

So, is mental adultery or immoral sexual fantasy sufficient biblical grounds for a divorce?

In my view, this is something which must be considered very carefully and judiciously. It is not always so easy to ascertain beyond a reasonable doubt that a mental transgression of this type really has occurred.

Besides, we all know that the physical act of adultery requires a greater willingness to sin than does an indulgence in adulterous sexual fantasy — and that has to count for something in the balance scales of justice.

Furthermore, we always have the option of reconciliation after we forgive the betrayal by releasing any feelings of hatred or anger or resentment or revenge. It is always an option because the Bible does not command or mandate divorce necessarily in cases of adultery.

On the other hand, it can be quite devastating to learn that a beloved spouse is harboring thoughts of infidelity and sexual fantasies about someone else. Especially if they are ongoing and habitual in nature.

In fact, marital betrayal and infidelity can be so heart-breaking and psychologically shattering that it is one of the reasons why God will permit a divorce in such instances even though, generally, He hates divorce.

Accordingly, each case has to be judged on its own individual merits and unique set of circumstances. People will have to decide for themselves the truth of the matter on a number of issues relevant to this question.

For instance, did your spouse really betray you sexually in their thoughts? Is your mate truly repentant for what they have done, and can they be deemed trustworthy in the future? How much moral character and integrity does your spouse exhibit? Can you put the hurt and pang behind you, and focus on healing your marriage?

I do not believe God necessarily wants us to look at divorce as a first response to marital problems like this. But, if the mental betrayal by your spouse is sufficiently severe or habitual, and they are not repentant, and your feelings of hurt and pang over this matter are substantial, then perhaps divorce is a viable biblical solution.

[color:"blue"] 1 Corinthians 7:2
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. (KJV)

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (KJV) [/color]

According to this passage, if both husband and wife are true Christian believers, and one of them leaves the other, then both of them are commanded to remain in a "separated" condition unless they decide to reconcile and reunite. Under such circumstances, neither believer has the biblical right to seek a divorce from the other believer unless extreme conditions such as fornication or abuse are involved.

Instead, they should try their very best to heal their marital relationship through Godly prayer, love, tolerance, kindness, marriage counseling and marital negotiations between the two of them in an attempt to find good solutions or compromises to problems in their relationship.

Obviously the above scriptural admonition emphasizes the truth that God wants true Christians to avoid the appearance of immoral lifestyles which merely mimic that of non-believers. If Christian couples were always getting divorces from each other for flimsy reasons, that would reflect very badly on the Christian faith in the eyes of many non-believers.

For that reason, God generally forbids divorce for married Christian couples, and that prohibition should not be violated unless extreme conditions such as fornication or abuse are involved.

Furthermore, the above scriptural admonition clearly corroborates the statements made by Jesus that only an extreme situation such as fornication provides a sufficient moral basis for divorce; trivial and flimsy reasons do not.

However, if a Christian believer decides to disobey God anyway by getting a divorce that is not morally justified, then the marriage covenant would no longer be in effect.

Accordingly, the offended marriage partner who has been divorced against their will, without just biblical cause, would not be under any further obligation to their now-defunct marriage contract, and they would be single and free to remarry.

So as to make the meaning of the above passage even more clear, we should note that the word "reconciled" in 1 Corinthians 7:11 is derived from the Greek word "katallassw," and it was utilized in Greek marriage contracts to indicate reconciliation between separated couples who were still married.

Thus, the apostle Paul was saying that even though ancient Roman Law considered married couples to be divorced as soon as they separated for any reason, as far as God's Moral Law was concerned, Christian couples who separated were still married, and should reconcile and reunite with each other if at all possible unless extreme conditions such as fornication or abuse were involved.

Likewise, sometimes it is argued that Christian marriage partners who separate should always forgive and reconcile and reunite with each other, regardless of the circumstances involved.

But, "forgiveness" and "reconciliation" and "reunion" are three different things. It is very possible for a person to forgive their spouse and feel no ill will or anger towards them, but still not wish to reconcile or reunite with them for a variety of valid reasons.

If that is the case, then generally the scriptural passage above commands them to remain separated until if and when they reconcile and reunite — unless, of course, extreme circumstances we will discuss later are involved.

[color:"blue"]1 Corinthians 7:12-15
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. (KJV) [/color]

In this passage, Paul teaches that if an unbelieving spouse is content to remain in the marriage with the believing spouse, then the believing spouse should not leave the unbelieving spouse.

However, if the unbelieving spouse leaves the Christian believer, then the Christian believer no longer is under bondage to the marriage vows. Hence, the marriage covenant under such circumstances is broken, and the believer is free to remarry whenever the divorce is finalized.

Of course, under Roman Law, as we saw earlier, divorce went into effect immediately upon the mere act of desertion; in our modern society, however, desertion is only grounds for a divorce, so a legal divorce would still have to be obtained.

As for situations where the unbeliever does leave the believer, I should hasten to add that the unbeliever should be leaving the believer because of the believer's Christian faith, not because of sin and wrongdoing in the life of the believer.

If the believer is guilty of any misbehavior that is threatening to destroy the marriage, then every reasonable attempt at forgiveness and reconciliation should be tried in order to save the marriage if at all possible.

Someone might argue that 1 Corinthians 7:12 clearly states that this passage of Scripture reflects the apostle Paul's opinion, and not God's.

But Paul, generally, was speaking under the authority and inspiration and guidance of the Holy Spirit while writing his letter to the Corinthians, even though, in this instance, he was not expressing a direct commandment from God Himself.

However, he was exercising the personal judgment and knowledge and insight with which God had blessed him on a specific issue of great interest.

So, in fact, this passage is not a false representation of God's Will as some might claim, but a valid part of Scripture as confirmed by Christian councils and translators down through the centuries of time since the inception of Christianity.

Sometimes it is said that 1 Corinthians 7:12-15 does not say that a Christian believer may remarry if they are deserted or divorced by their unbelieving spouse. But, in 1 Corinthians 7:15, Paul said that, "if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases..."

Obviously the phrase, "not under bondage," can only mean that the believing spouse no longer is under bondage to the marriage covenant because it is invalidated by the unbelieving spouse when they leave the believing marriage partner.

Therefore, in such instances, a believer no longer is bound to the marriage covenant, and is free to remarry once the divorce has been finalized.

The author of the book of Romans also briefly addresses the issue of marriage and remarriage:

[color:"blue"] Romans 7:1-3
1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. (KJV) [/color]

Compare the following parallel passage:

[color:"blue"] 1 Corinthians 7:39
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord. (KJV) [/color]

In other words, if the spouse of the Christian believer dies, then the Christian is free to remarry. This is all the preceding scriptural passages are saying; nothing more.

So, they do not mean that if a person is victimized by their spouse through an unjust divorce, they can never remarry so long as their spouse who divorced them, without cause, remains alive.

Instead, we must apply everything the Bible teaches about divorce and remarriage to the above scriptural passages in order to ascertain the highest level of understanding possible regarding God's truth on this matter.

Then finally, one major ongoing issue we have encountered throughout our analysis centers on the biblical right of believers to get a divorce in extreme circumstances involving things such as fornication, abuse, violence, life-threatening neglect, permanent desertion by a believing spouse, permanent and malicious denial of reasonable sexual duties, and so on.

For instance, in the matter concerning Old Testament justifications for divorce, Jesus actually addressed only one aspect of those divorce laws: the controversy that surrounded the word "uncleanness." Thus, His New Covenant proclamation decreed that only fornication, i.e., spiritual and/or sexual immorality, justified divorce, thereby implying that trivial reasons did not.

However, the apostle Paul later affirmed the validity of the other Old Testament justifications for divorce in a more positive manner when he elaborated on the duties and obligations that are inherent within all Christian marriages. (I Corinthians 7) (Ephesians 5:23-33).

But, in the final analysis, the biblical principle of Objective Moral Relativism provides absolute, iron-clad justification for a biblical divorce, in extreme circumstances, that go beyond any specific scriptural instructions.

Because the Bible clearly demonstrates the truth that a hierarchy of Divine moral values exist which should govern all of our moral decisions in life.

Thus, no moral principle is completely autonomous to itself. That is why God is a God of love and mercy, but also a God of justice and judgment. Therefore, complexity, not contradiction, is involved in such instances.

Accordingly, whenever moral laws and principles come into direct and unavoidable conflict with each other, and due to circumstances, it is impossible to comply with both of them or all of them, then it is our moral duty and obligation to choose the highest level of good possible.

For example, if telling a lie was the only way possible to save an innocent life from death, then obviously you should do so because the higher law (preservation of innocent life) should take precedence over the lower law (truth), as the following biblical scripture demonstrates:

[color:"blue"] Joshua 2:3-4
3 And the king of Jericho sent unto Rahab, saying, Bring forth the men that are come to thee, which are entered into thine house: for they be come to search out all the country.

4 And the woman took the two men, and hid them, and said thus, There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were: (KJV)

Hebrews 11:31
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. (KJV)

James 2:25-26
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (KJV) [[/color]

The preceding scriptures portray an instance whereby God accounted an individual as righteous when they were forced to tell a lie in order to save the lives of innocent human beings. Now compare this example with the following one:

[color:"blue"] Exodus 1:15-21
15 And the king of Egypt spake to the Hebrew midwives, of which the name of the one was Shiphrah, and the name of the other Puah:

16 And he said, When ye do the office of a midwife to the Hebrew women, and see them upon the stools; if it be a son, then ye shall kill him: but if it be a daughter, then she shall live.

17 But the midwives feared God, and did not as the king of Egypt commanded them, but saved the men children alive.

18 And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men children alive?

19 And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them.

20 Therefore God dealt well with the midwives: and the people multiplied, and waxed very mighty.

21 And it came to pass, because the midwives feared God, that he made them houses. (KJV) [/color]

Here is yet another situation where God looked very favorably upon individuals who lied in order to save innocent human life. The midwives, in this instance, very courageously lied to the Pharaoh because it was the only practical way of saving the innocent Hebrew babies from being slaughtered.

Likewise, the following scripture illustrates the morality of being forced to kill a thief who is in the process of robbing you and possibly even threatening your life:

[color:"blue"] Exodus 22:1-2
1 If a man shall steal an ox, or a sheep, and kill it, or sell it; he shall restore five oxen for an ox, and four sheep for a sheep.

2 If a thief be found breaking up, and be smitten that he die, there shall no blood be shed for him. (KJV) [/color]

The following passage actually portrays God instructing an innocent individual to lie so he would not be killed unfairly and unjustly.

Some people might argue that God did not really tell Samuel to lie because when Samuel told anyone that he was there to make a sacrifice to the Lord (as God instructed him to do if anyone should inquire as to why he was going to Bethlehem), he was telling the truth.

But truth-telling, in its fullest, complete sense of the meaning, is not necessarily limited to the strict semantic sense of the words employed by a person, but rather, it is the impression or message which a person intends for his audience to receive when he or she is communicating ideas through words and gestures and overall demeanor.

That is why in our judicial system, a person promises to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

A seemingly redundant pledge of this type is necessary because it is very possible to deceive people by giving only completely truthful statements while still withholding vital information which prevents the audience from understanding the entire situation correctly.

But, sometimes, making truthful statements in order to deceive someone about the whole truth of a matter, as in the following example, is morally justifiable because they involve situations where one is forced by circumstances to choose between two evil actions or consequences in an effort to choose the highest level of good possible when no completely good options exist:

[color:"blue"] 1 Samuel 16:1-5
1 And the LORD said unto Samuel, How long wilt thou mourn for Saul, seeing I have rejected him from reigning over Israel? fill thine horn with oil, and go, I will send thee to Jesse the Bethlehemite: for I have provided me a king among his sons.

2 And Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the LORD said, Take an heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the LORD.

3 And call Jesse to the sacrifice, and I will shew thee what thou shalt do: and thou shalt anoint unto me him whom I name unto thee.

4 And Samuel did that which the LORD spake, and came to Bethlehem. And the elders of the town trembled at his coming, and said, Comest thou peaceably?

5 And he said, Peaceably: I am come to sacrifice unto the LORD: sanctify yourselves, and come with me to the sacrifice. And he sanctified Jesse and his sons, and called them to the sacrifice. (KJV) [/color]

The following scriptures illustrate the truth that there is a hierarchy of moral values because some moral laws are more important than other moral laws:

[color:"blue"] John 19:11
11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin. (KJV)

Matthew 5:19
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (KJV)

Matthew 23:23
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. (KJV)

Genesis 9:6
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. (KJV)

Acts 5:29
29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. (KJV)

James 4:17
17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. (KJV)

Hebrews 11:17
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, (KJV) [/color]

Compare the following scriptures which state that Jesus was sinless and without blemish:

[color:"blue"] Hebrews 4:15
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (KJV)

I John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. (KJV)

2 Corinthians 5:21
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (KJV)

1 Peter 1:19
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (KJV) [/color]

Now compare the preceding scriptures, which say that Jesus was sinless, with the following passage which portrays Jesus as disobedient and unresponsive to His parents' wishes when they conflicted with God's wishes:

[color:"blue"] Luke 2:44-49
44 But they, supposing him to have been in the company, went a day's journey; and they sought him among their kinsfolk and acquaintance.

45 And when they found him not, they turned back again to Jerusalem, seeking him.

46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.

47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.

48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? (KJV) [/color]

So, I think we have established beyond any reasonable doubt that there does exist a hierarchy of Divine moral values which should govern all of our moral decisions in life.

Accordingly, in those instances where our health or life truly is threatened by physical or psychological violence from our spouse, the moral laws of self-preservation and self-defense — rights which are derived from the very right to life itself — supersede the moral law of marriage, and we should get a divorce from our abusive and violent spouse as quickly as possible. (Compare: Matthew 10:23; Exodus 21:26-27; etc.)

This very same moral principle also explains why Old Testament Law permitted divorce in extreme marital situations which involved neglect by a spouse in matters pertaining to food, clothing, shelter, and reasonable sexual obligations.

Therefore, even though God places a very high value on the institution of marriage, it is possible for extreme circumstances involving fornication, adultery, violence, abuse, life-threatening neglect, and permanent spousal desertion to justify a biblical divorce action.

However, the Bible does not always say precisely what we should do in a wide variety of extreme situations because it would be almost impossible to write a book that would give such detailed, explicit moral instructions for every possible contingency in life.

Instead, the Bible gives us basic moral principles to weigh and balance against each other, carefully and honestly, in order to determine what we should do in a given situation.

In other words, biblical moral principles are intended simply to serve as general guidelines, only; it is up to us to apply them properly and diligently in a rational and honest and ethical manner.

For that reason, here are some of the moral laws we should consider when making our decision about whether or not a divorce is biblically justified:

(1) God hates divorce, i.e., the violation or breaking of one's wedding vows;

(2) The Bible specifically states that adultery, fornication, desertion by a non-believer, non-support, and a lack of reasonable spousal sexual rights all are legitimate reasons for divorce;

(3) The Bible clearly teaches we should violate a lower moral law if that is the only way possible (within reason) to comply with a higher moral law because no good options are available to us. In other words, for example, we are obligated morally to tell a lie if that is the only way possible to save an innocent person from being killed.

(4) We have the God-given right to life, and that precious gift from God obviously includes the right to protect and defend our lives against danger and harm. Naturally, we always should utilize the lowest level of force or flight necessary to eliminate any threat which might be arrayed against us.

Accordingly, in situations that involve physical or mental abuse, or the threat thereof, an absolutely honest and realistic assessment of all relevant circumstances is necessary in order to determine if we truly are confronted with a realistic threat to our health or life.

This means, for instance, that angry disagreements between marriage partners, and other such things, are not sufficient reason for seeking a divorce. God does not want Christians getting divorces for trivial reasons.

Instead, both parties should strive sincerely and honestly to work out their differences through negotiations with each other, and perhaps through Christian marriage counseling with an experienced minister, and through Godly prayer, love, tolerance, kindness, and so on.

Because most marriages encounter problems, sooner or later, but since everyone promises to marry "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health," divorce should not be viewed as a first option as soon as there is any sign of unhappiness or discontent in the marriage.

Therefore, hurt feelings or feelings of frustration are not sufficient grounds for a biblical divorce.

But, on the other hand, realistic threats to our health or life, such as physical beatings or systematic patterns of mental torture designed to destroy or incapacitate us, are legitimate reasons for leaving a spouse and subsequently seeking a divorce from them.

Of course, only the victims of psychological abuse can decide, honestly, if the constant barrage of invective and hatred by their spouse rises to a level of mental cruelty that seriously jeopardizes their emotional and physical health.

Because it is one thing to engage in heated arguments or disputes with your spouse occasionally, but quite another matter if your spouse attacks you verbally — unmercifully, continually — so that you always are near your breaking point.

In such instances, a divorce is biblically justified because the higher moral/biblical values of survival and self-defense take priority over the lower moral/biblical value that prohibits divorce.

Hence, biblical divorces are not limited to just cases of spousal fornication, including adultery; they also are justified in clear, obvious cases involving a dangerous level of psychological and/or physical abuse!

However, the victim of such abuse may also want to consult with two or three reputable, experienced Christian counselors or ministers who can advise them regarding their situation.

For as the Bible says, there is safety in a multitude of counselors or advisors:

[color:"blue"] Proverbs 11:14
14 Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the multitude of counsellors there is safety. (KJV)

Proverbs 15:22
22 Without counsel purposes are disappointed: but in the multitude of counsellors they are established. (KJV)

Proverbs 24:6
6 For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war: and in multitude of counsellors there is safety. (KJV) [/color]

Furthermore, after the victim of the abuse has obtained their biblically-justified divorce, they become a single person once again in God's eyes, so they are free to remarry if they wish to do so.

But, please keep in mind that God knows our every thought and emotion; nothing is hidden from Him.

So, if you decide that divorce is a biblically permissible solution in a given marital situation, especially in highly-subjective situations involving alleged mental torture, you should make certain, in your own mind, that you truly believe your life or health, physically or emotionally, is seriously and realistically threatened by your spouse.

Sometimes people say in such instances that the offended party simply should get a separation, not a divorce.

However, aside from the fact the Bible does not teach such a thing, the stark reality in life is that violent, abusive people seldom, if ever, suddenly reform their behavior unless they receive a miraculous transformation through the saving grace of Christ Jesus, our Lord God and Saviour.

Therefore, it is not fair to condemn the victim of abuse to a lifetime of constant fear, threats, danger, loneliness, and frustration simply because they had the misfortune or poor judgment to marry such an evil, violent person.

For God has not called us to be pitiful, abused doormats, but to life, and life abundantly. (John 10:10).

This scriptural point is completely harmonious with the teaching in the epistles that just as Christ is head of the church, so likewise should the husband be the head (i.e., spiritual leader) of his wife (Eph. 5:23) while respecting her right to free will and equal value and dignity as a human being (Gal. 3:28).

Moreover, the husband should love and cherish his wife and family just as Christ loves and cherishes the church body of believers. (Ephesians 5:23).

Accordingly, a proper biblical view of marriage precludes the violent, abusive relationship that so many modern marriages endure. (Compare: Matthew 10:23; Exodus 21:26-27; etc.)

Although God hates divorce (Jeremiah 3:1; Malachi 2:14-16; Mark 10:2-12), it is morally and scripturally justified under certain adverse conditions because a higher moral law always supersedes a lower moral law whenever it is impossible to comply with both of them.

Earlier, we observed in 1 Corinthians 7:2, 10-11 that if a husband and his wife are true Christian believers, and one of them leaves the other, then both of them are commanded to remain in a "separated" condition unless they decide to reconcile and reunite. Moreover, that under such circumstances, neither one of them has the biblical right to seek a divorce from the other.

But this scriptural passage, like all other passages in the Bible, must be balanced against everything else the Bible teaches concerning God's moral laws.

Consequently, even in the above situation where both parties to the marriage are true believers, other biblical scriptures state that divorce is still justified if fornication or neglect are involved.

However, the biblical principle of Objective Moral Relativism not only provides additional scriptural justification for divorce in such marriages if fornication or neglect are involved, but it also justifies divorce in many other harmful and extreme circumstances as well.

On that basis then, we can say that divorce is morally justifiable for a number of extreme situations, including fornication, adultery, violence, dangerous levels of abuse, life-threatening neglect, long-term and malicious denial of reasonable sexual obligations, desertion by a non-believing spouse, and even permanent desertion by a believing spouse if numerous attempts at reconciliation and reunion have failed over a very long period of time.

In every such instance, the higher moral law of survival and self-defense supersedes the lower moral value that prohibits divorce.

This is true even when a believing spouse makes it quite clear that they are separating from you, permanently, despite numerous and honest and sincere attempts on your part at reconciliation and reunion over a very long period of time. Otherwise, an innocent believer would be condemned very unfairly to a lifetime of loneliness and frustration and incompleteness and involuntary celibacy.

Thus, married Christian couples can be divorced whenever extreme conditions are involved, but not when only trivial and flimsy reasons are.

Before closing, sometimes it is said that a newly-converted Christian or a re-converted Christian should divorce their current spouse if they ever committed adultery or fornication before they married, presumably either to live the remainder of their life as a single person or to remarry a former spouse they divorced without just biblical cause.

However, even if someone committed terrible sins, including adultery, sometime in their past, they always get a new start in life through the forgiving power and grace of Christ Jesus.

That is what Christian salvation is all about.

Therefore, once you have repented of your sins, and have accepted Christ Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, you should begin to live your life everyday in compliance with His commandments to the very best of your ability.

On the practical level, this means that whatever your life circumstances are at the moment of your conversion or reconversion to Christ Jesus, that is the point from which you begin to conform your activities and thoughts and lifestyle to His commandments.

That is why the apostle Paul wrote the following passage of scripture:

[color:"blue"]I Corinthians 7:20
20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. (KJV)] [/color]

Accordingly, in matters pertaining to adultery and divorce and remarriage, whatever your marital status happens to be at the time of your conversion or reconversion to Christ Jesus, that marks the point in time during which you begin to conform your thoughts and actions to His commandments.

So, if you are single when you begin a new life in Christ, you are free to marry or remarry if you wish to do so.

Nor is it scripturally necessary for you to remarry a former spouse if you have ever been divorced, regardless of the reason for the divorce.

There is no biblical reason to atone for past mistakes such as adultery or unjustified divorces; atonement was accomplished by the substitutionary, propitiatory finished-work of the Lord Jesus Christ Who paid the penalty of sin for all by His death on the cross at Calvary.

Consequently, I do not believe God demands that divorced people who have been forgiven for their sin of adultery must remain single and alone for the rest of their natural lives.

Instead, if they truly have repented of their past failures, and are determined and resolute about not committing that type of sin again, I believe they are free to remarry as forgiven sinners under the grace of God.

However, as the book of Romans argues, God's grace and forgiveness is not something we should take advantage of just because God always stands ready to forgive us if we sincerely repent of our moral failures.

Rather, we always should strive to do our very best not to repeat any sinful mistake; most certainly we should not act in a cavalier manner, committing the same sin over and over again, knowing full-well we can always take refuge in God's willingness to forgive us.

Therefore, even though we live under God's grace and forgiveness, we do have a moral obligation to do our very best not to commit the same horrendous sin again.

In like manner, if you are remarried at the time of your conversion or reconversion, then you should remain married to your current spouse. You should not divorce your current spouse to remarry a former spouse in a misguided attempt to achieve atonement or "restitution."

That is one of the reasons why the apostle Paul also said we should put our past sins and mistakes behind us, and press on toward the future in Christ Jesus:

[color:"blue"] Philippians 3:13-14
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (KJV) [/color]

Moreover, here is what Jesus had to say when confronted with a person who had just committed adultery:

[color:"blue"] John 8:3-11
3 And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,

4 They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.

5 Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?

6 This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.

7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.

9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?

11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. (KJV) [/color]

Thus, whenever a person sincerely accepts Christ Jesus as their personal Lord and Saviour, they become a new creature in Christ with a clean moral slate (since they have been forgiven).

But after that person has been forgiven, God expects them to make a "good-faith" effort, through the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit, to obey the commandments of Jesus to the best of their ability. That is why Jesus said: "Go, and sin no more."

So, it is clear that a new Christian or a reconverted Christian should remain married to their current spouse if they are married at the time of their conversion or reconversion, but that they are free to marry or remarry if they are single at the moment of their conversion or reconversion.

Moreover, all of this is true regardless of any previous moral failures.

Therefore, in conclusion, the Bible teaches that divorce is biblically permissible whenever one or more of the following extreme and dangerous conditions apply to your marriage:

(1) Your spouse is guilty of any type of fornication, including adultery;

(2) Your spouse is guilty of life-threatening neglect by not providing reasonable and essential necessities such as food, clothing and shelter;

(3) Your spouse is guilty of long-term and malicious denial of reasonable sexual obligations;

(4) Your spouse is guilty of physical or mental abuse and violence that truly threatens your life or health;

(5) Your non-believing spouse leaves you because of your Christian faith and value-system;

(6) Your believing spouse makes it quite clear that they are separating from you, permanently, despite numerous and honest and sincere attempts on your part at reconciliation and reunion over a very long period of time.
_______________________________________

NOTE: God hates divorce. Nevertheless, sometimes there are extreme circumstances involved in a marital situation for which the Bible permits divorce.
[color:"brown"]ORIGINALLY POSTED BY MORTARMAN: [/color]

I am going thru your post Suzet. We might want to move this to its own thread for a better discussion. But for now, as I go thru what you posted, I did remember this excerpt I found on the web some time ago.

Quote
In Matthew 19, Jesus states that God ordained the institution of marriage, and He has decreed that in every marriage, the husband and wife are to become one for life. Divorce destroys the marriage and thus breaks asunder a union God Himself has established (Mark 10:9). "I hate divorce," says the Lord (Mal. 2:16).

Jesus' teaching on divorce is clear. He restricted divorce under most circumstances, and He forbade the remarriage of those who divorce on improper grounds, calling such remarriage adultery: "But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the cause of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery" (Matt. 5:32). The word "unchastity" in that verse is the Greek word porneia, "fornication"—which includes all kinds of gross sexual immorality.

The Old Testament contained a few provisions governing the remarriage of divorced people (Lev. 21:11, 14; Deut. 24:1-4). The rabbis had taken these laws and broadened them to permit divorce for virtually any reason. Under the rabbinical laws, if a wife displeased her husband in any way, he was entitled to divorce her. Jesus stated that this was never the purpose of Moses' Law. In fact, Jesus teaching on divorce was given specifically to refute the rabbinical loopholes. Furthermore, He so rigidly opposed divorce, that when He had completed His teaching, His disciples concluded that it would be better never to get married (Matt. 19:10)!

So God's utter hatred of divorce is very clear in Scripture.

Nonetheless, there are two extraordinary cases in which Scripture teaches that God does permit divorced people to remarry.

First, note that Jesus Himself included this exception clause: "Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery" (Matt. 19:9, King James Version, emphasis added). He allows an exception in this one case, only "because of the hardness of your hearts" (Matt. 19:8). Clearly, Jesus is treating divorce as a last resort, only to be sought in the case of hard-hearted adultery.

The apostle Paul allows one more reason for divorce: if an unbelieving spouse abandons a believer, the believer is under no obligation in such a case (1 Cor. 7:14). This would free the abandoned spouse to remarry.

But we must emphasize that apart from those two specific, exceptional cases, divorce is not sanctioned in Scripture.

Just throwing it out there for discussion!!
In His arms.
Thanks for getting this started, Suzet. I am getting my stuff together and we can maybe have a great discussion on this!

In His arms.
Seems like a good place to ask an opinion. I am baptized and was a church goer. I came to Hong Kong in 1989 engaged to my WH and after a very short time, we decided to marry. I went to the church and saw an elderly italian priest and told him we wanted to get married. He said, "Do I know you". Well, of course he didn't as we'd only just arrived but I didn't like him and didn't understand his attitude (I do now). But, feeling aggrieved, I decided we'd get married at the registry office and have a church blessing back in England at a later date with our folks.

We have never moved back to England. From the moment I married WH I felt very united and bonded but have wondered whether God considers me married. What about all the Vegas weddings. Do they count? We were blessed with 3 beautiful daughters, all are baptized.
Suzet -

Thanks for posting this. It is so long that I am going to print it and leisurely read it.

This is a subject that is of interest to me and I would like to share in these thoughts with others.

Georgia
Quote
Seems like a good place to ask an opinion. I am baptized and was a church goer. I came to Hong Kong in 1989 engaged to my WH and after a very short time, we decided to marry. I went to the church and saw an elderly italian priest and told him we wanted to get married. He said, "Do I know you". Well, of course he didn't as we'd only just arrived but I didn't like him and didn't understand his attitude (I do now). But, feeling aggrieved, I decided we'd get married at the registry office and have a church blessing back in England at a later date with our folks.

We have never moved back to England. From the moment I married WH I felt very united and bonded but have wondered whether God considers me married. What about all the Vegas weddings. Do they count? We were blessed with 3 beautiful daughters, all are baptized.

Good questions. The Bible says ALL marriages are made one-flesh by God...even two atheists to each other. Even though God says that He does not want unevenly yoked marriages, He will thus bond the two as one flesh should they marry.

Yes, you are married.

In His arms.
Thank you Mortarman. I did wonder at times if I was being punished for not following through my original plan. Looks like I killed this thread! TT
Interesting read. Just a quick note:

The family Bible I have does not use the word fornicate in Mat 32. It says immorality.

I asked our priest about divorce due to adultery shortly after DDay2. He told me this immorality option is given to Christians so they can protect their own soul.

Adultery is not an out all by itself. Christ gives us a means to protect our soul from an immoral spouse if we are in danger from that immorality – as in drag us down with them.

I have seen this same interpretation several times here on MB, too.

I was also told that remarrying after D for any reason, including adultery, is not automatic. There needs to be a determination that the earlier M was invalid in the first place, in which case the M may be annulled.

These days, annulments are not all that hard to get, though.

With prayers,
Tummytuck - MM has it right, you are married. There ARE churches that might try to tell you are not if you didn't have a "church wedding," but that's not true. Someone may not have a "Christian" marriage, but they are nonetheless married in the eyes of the State and God.
Quote
Interesting read. Just a quick note:

The family Bible I have does not use the word fornicate in Mat 32. It says immorality.

I asked our priest about divorce due to adultery shortly after DDay2. He told me this immorality option is given to Christians so they can protect their own soul.

Adultery is not an out all by itself. Christ gives us a means to protect our soul from an immoral spouse if we are in danger from that immorality – as in drag us down with them.

I have seen this same interpretation several times here on MB, too.

I was also told that remarrying after D for any reason, including adultery, is not automatic. There needs to be a determination that the earlier M was invalid in the first place, in which case the M may be annulled.

These days, annulments are not all that hard to get, though.

With prayers,

Apehlion - The family Bible I have does not use the word fornicate in Mat 32. It says immorality.

Probably the "closest" translation of the original word, Porneia, that conveys the "thought and meaning" is what the NIV uses..."marital unfaithfulness." It is more encompassing that "just" adultery and includes actions that are essentially "idolatry."

He told me this immorality option is given to Christians so they can protect their own soul. Only partly. It is primarily for a response to an unrepentant spouse and if the Faithful Spouse cannot "get past" the hardness of their own hearts in forgiveness of their spouse.

There needs to be a determination that the earlier M was invalid in the first place, in which case the M may be annulled.

There is no "invalidation" of a marriage because it is defined as a "one flesh" situation by God. It can be "forgiven" and "committed to God in Christ," but it isn't "invalidated." God "allows" divorce, but it stands as a "prior marriage," not as "never existed."

God bless.
Suzet - I've been reading through your post of that book section. No real problems with anything in there other than I'm not clear about some of his theological thoughts on terms like "conversion" and "reconversion." It almost appears as though he believes that one can lose their salvation, and then "regain it," perhaps time after time after time. But with respect to "marital unfaithfulness" (i.e. fornication and adultery), I don't see any real argument with his position at this point.

btw, I've also been unsuccessful in accessing anything on his website.

God bless.
I am currenty in this process of Biblical divorce etc.

There are several threads here explaining my current situation and I really don't want to rehash them here but basically, my wife and I were both believers when we were married some 23 years ago. Both of us have extensive Biblical teaching, so the Scriptures are not foreign to us in this matter.

My situation is that my wife is currently involved with an EA and refuses to end it. She has fallen in love with this OM and wants to end our marriage.

Fast forward: We are currently involved with a MC who also happens to be our pastor. W knows all the verses, knows all the teachings and warnings, but is saying that as an adult, has the right to maker her own choices, good or bad. The focus with her is her happiness and she cannot understand why God would want her to be unhappy for the rest of her life in our current marriage.

Of course my wife is currently off in her relationship with God and her spirit is under incredible attack so we really don't have to get into the issue of my W being off or not in God's will etc. She is in a constant battle and KNOWS what the RIGHT thing to do is, and has stated it repeatedly. She just cannot break her current addiction, and really doesn't want to which is more the issue than the acutal EA.

Now, to the topic at hand. Divorce is not the problem for the Christian/believer, but instead it is remarriage. Anyone can get divorced, but the problem for the believer comes when they want to remarry.

Yes, God hates divorce and wishes reconciliation, but does not prevent anyone from getting a divorce. Remarrige on the other hand presents the real problem.

As others have stated here, there are only a couple of valid areas in which a believer can be remarried. Now, they can remarry and God will still love them, but at some point, they will be disciplined.

Now, another issue within the Christian community and adultery is the principle behind Matthew 18:15,16,17 which deals specifically with Church discipline. This is hardly ever discussed, but in my case, we are somewhere between verses 15 and 16. Elders have been contacted and if her EA continues, she will be brought into them and asked to repent. If she refuses, the church will move to verse 17 which involves congregational discipline where her EA is exposed to the entire congreation and if she again refuses to repent, she will be excommunicated from the church.

Now, the vast majority of churches her in the U.S. do not practice this type of Biblical discipline or it never gets that far, but that does not make it any less valid. It is there for a reason and it should be used, but with extreme caution. Remember, a Pastor is responsible for his entire flock, just not a few people. If knowingly lets sin go unrepented in his church, then it can spread like a cancer. My pastor has also stated that when he finds out what church she is attending after being excommunicated, it is his duty as a pastor to contact the other pastor and let him know what is walking through his door. W has also threatened to resign her church membership, but pastor said to me that they will not allow her to run from her sin and that it is not that easy. So, this is turning into some pretty serious stuff.

Another avenue within the Christian community is Church discipline. BTW, my wife knows this is a very real possibility and she does not want to go down that path, but is still reluctant to break her addiction to the OM.

Lastly, I believe it is in II Cor. where legal matters are discussed. Possibly chapter 6. If not, then it is I Cor. chapter 6. In these verses, Paul states that a believer should not take another believer to court. It should be handled within the church. This would, and does include divorce, since it is a legal matter. This does not include issues such as murder, theft, etc. They should be taken to court. In other words, if someone is stealing funds from the church, they need to repent, but also need to come under generic law.

Now, these verses in Cor. are never discussed when it comes to to believers going through divorce, but they need to be. We were made aware of this just last week at our weekly Bible study! And yes, my wife attends that in full glory (that's being sarcastic). She sits there quietly while listening to all the ramifications of sinful behavior, yet is has not been able to clear the fog.

john
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Now, the vast majority of churches her in the U.S. do not practice this type of Biblical discipline or it never gets that far, but that does not make it any less valid. It is there for a reason and it should be used, but with extreme caution. Remember, a Pastor is responsible for his entire flock, just not a few people. If knowingly lets sin go unrepented in his church, then it can spread like a cancer. My pastor has also stated that when he finds out what church she is attending after being excommunicated, it is his duty as a pastor to contact the other pastor and let him know what is walking through his door. W has also threatened to resign her church membership, but pastor said to me that they will not allow her to run from her sin and that it is not that easy. So, this is turning into some pretty serious stuff.

I am thankful to know that some churches do handle sitches like your WW in the right way. As I have seen so many "loose" churches it's sickening, and the main reason I don't go. But I love ladies bible studies. Most pastors, (this applies especially to large churches) don't even know the people in thier congregation or what is going on in thier lives, let alone to correct them in the biblical sense. A little leaven does leaven the whole lump.
It's a cancerous thing to let sin run rampant in a church.

My H was brought before the pastor that married us, and H is acting repentant, he had a substance abuse relapse and ONS.

I hope you WW comes to her senses and escapes the snare of the devil.

Lady
Johng,

All that you have stated is correct. I did the same thing with my wife, as in church discipline.

Now that we are in recovery, she has told me recently that one of the biggest things that hurt (besides losing our kids in a custody hearing) was that 4 days before that hearing, I took her to the church and the church declared her "spiritually dead." Which is what Matthew is talking about. She hasnt lost her salvation...but the church has decided that her rebellion allows her to be treated as if she has. And then, Scripture goes on to say that God binds in Heaven what the church binds here on Earth. Which means, that the decision by the church is ratified by God. It really is God's court. My wife said she could sense all of a sudden feeling very alone, and very unprotected. A scary place to be, when you have had Jesus by your side up to that point.

So, the path you have taken is the Biblically correct one. And it is the ONLY Scripturally correct way to end a marriage and be eligible for remarriage without God having to discipline us for committing adultery. Churches are failing most believers because they dont do this stuff, and they tell their flock that its okay to do it another way. it is NOT okay!

So, when a Christian believer as a spouse who is in unrepentent adultery...goes to court and gets a divorce...and then that BS remarries, they are actually committing adultery themselves and bringing their new spouse into adultery also.

Satan has pulled the wool over many eyes. God has made things very clear, but the church has forgotten. And not only will we be judged, but most especially His church and His pastors and elders. They are leading people into sin!

That is why I am glad we have started this thread. As The Bible says...the road is narrow. There is only ONE right way. Take the wide road at your own peril.

In His arms.
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... she has told me recently that one of the biggest things that hurt (besides losing our kids in a custody hearing) was that 4 days before that hearing, I took her to the church and the church declared her "spiritually dead."

Oh my goodness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Since when does any institution or person have the authority to proclaim any believer as "spiritually dead"? Wouldn't that be God's responsibility?

Does anyone know your wife's heart but God?

I am not condoning your wife's actions. I don't know why she would (or would want to) sit in church, be churched, and live her life as she does. But to say that she is spirtually dead seems to go beyond what Matthew is saying when discussing church discipline.
Mortarman,

Glad to hear of your outcome.

I "know" that I am doing the right thing. My wife believes that I am pushing for the church discipline. She also believes that the pastor is in cahoots with me and are beating her over the head with this.

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Our pastor has shown incredible restraint in this matter. Remember, he is also or MC and has endured my wife sitting in church for these last 3 months basically unrepentant. I have said to my wife, at what point will he continue to let this go on? His hands are tied! She wants me to try and stop the discipline and I keep telling her, that she is the only one with that power. You see, she feels I should be protecting her, i.e. covering her sins as a husband, but I told her I wasn't going to enable her A any longer. It's like covering for an addicted person and their behavior.

I am willing to cover if indeed she is repentant and we are working on restoration. But when you tell me that you are still calling OM and that you don't care what God says etc., that is hardly repentant.

She again follows with it's only been a short while and she needs more time to sort things out! We've been sitting in a leadership class that is dealing with conflict resolution and she has heard plenty about adultery over the last 6 weeks and it's Biblical consequences, but fails to make amends.

Then, a couple we know back home who are also believers believe that I am moving to quickly and should not incourage church discipline. I have yet to get back to themm and ask them why, but again, the main issue here is that she is still unrepentant, and what is our Pastor supposed to do?

Of course, in her fog, she says that all these verses are very convienient for me. Hey, I did not write them! She IS nervous about the situation because she knows something like this will follow her where ever she goes.

I am glad to hear that other churches are holding up to the Word of God. Our church has only gone this route 2 times, but as I said, things are in the works but on hold at the moment.

johng
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... she has told me recently that one of the biggest things that hurt (besides losing our kids in a custody hearing) was that 4 days before that hearing, I took her to the church and the church declared her "spiritually dead."

Oh my goodness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Since when does any institution or person have the authority to proclaim any believer as "spiritually dead"? Wouldn't that be God's responsibility?

Does anyone know your wife's heart but God?

I am not condoning your wife's actions. I don't know why she would (or would want to) sit in church, be churched, and live her life as she does. But to say that she is spirtually dead seems to go beyond what Matthew is saying when discussing church discipline.

Actually, it is exactly what Matthew, 1st Corinthians and Hebrews is saying. Scripture states that it is the church which is God's agent here on Earth. It says that when two or more believers gather, He will be there. But be there for what? For prayer, for fellowship? Sure. But that isnt what the passage is talking about. It is saying that Jesus will be there in helping the church make judgments on His behalf and discipline. God gives authority to His church to discipline believers. That is VERY clear.

How can a church know a person's heart? Very easy!! If you go thru the process that Matthew is stating, then it is very easy to see if the person is willing to follow God, or to continue to rebel against God. This is how all believers should handle things with each other. If another believer owes me money, I shouldnt go down to the local courthouse and sue. I should take him before the church. Actually, I should first come to him and give hi mthe chance to make right. if that doesnt happen, then two or three witnesses come to see what the situation is. If the believer still will not repent, then that believer is brought before the church. If standing before the church (and you dont have to be there...if you refuse to come, you can still be disciplined in abstentia), and you will not repent, then the church is authorized to put you out and treat you as a heathen or tax collector.

Now what was a heathen or tax collector in the time of the writing of Matthew. They were people who were spiritually dead! They had not been saved. What Matthew is saying is the church judges the believer's rebellion and if the believer does not repent, then the believer should be treated as a tax gatherer...to be treated as if they are spiritually dead.

Then it goes on to say that if the church follows the Lord in what He has commanded, then He will be there and be a part of the process. And once the "verdict" is made, God says that He will bind in Heaven what the church has bound on Earth, and loose in Heaven what the church as "loosed" on Earth. It means, in legal parlance, that God is legally ratifying the decision of the church.

How do we know the heart of a believer in this situation? As I said, it is VERY easy! When I took my wife before the church, I had evidence and I had witnesses. I had gone to her and tried to get her to stop her immoral behavior and to return to where God commands. She would not. The witnesses testified to that fact. When I went to the church, she refused to come, even though she knew about it and knew what was happening. That is an admission of guilt. But if she had come, and the pastor and elders would have asked if she was ready to follow the Lord and give up her rebellion. If she said "yes," then no discipline would be needed. If she said "no," then she is clearly rebelling against God and her heart is known. Thus, the church is MANDATED by God to put her out and treat her as spiritually dead...that is until she comes to repentence.

It is in there! And it is real. The church used to do this. Many do not do so today. And many believers are gettign divorced, or suing other believers, etc...in direct violation of the Lord...and they dont even know it!

In His arms.
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Mortarman,

Glad to hear of your outcome.

I "know" that I am doing the right thing. My wife believes that I am pushing for the church discipline. She also believes that the pastor is in cahoots with me and are beating her over the head with this.

And who do you think is telling her this? Could it be Satan? You and I both know that it is.

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Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. Our pastor has shown incredible restraint in this matter. Remember, he is also or MC and has endured my wife sitting in church for these last 3 months basically unrepentant. I have said to my wife, at what point will he continue to let this go on? His hands are tied!

Indeed his hands are tied. So are yours. To not discipline her would be willfull disobedience on your part, your pastor's part, and the church. It is good that you have a church and a pastor that does know the Scriptures and is willing to live by them...ALL OF THEM!

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She wants me to try and stop the discipline and I keep telling her, that she is the only one with that power. You see, she feels I should be protecting her, i.e. covering her sins as a husband, but I told her I wasn't going to enable her A any longer. It's like covering for an addicted person and their behavior.

It is called enabling...and you are exactly right. Added to that, who are you protecting her from? She wants you to protect her from God! Number one, you arent big enough to do that!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Number two, if you tried, God would "spank" you. And number three...the BEST place for her to be is in the Hands of God...even if she is being disciplined by Him! His discipline is always true, always correct...and always loving! Even if it doesnt feel like it at the time.

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I am willing to cover if indeed she is repentant and we are working on restoration. But when you tell me that you are still calling OM and that you don't care what God says etc., that is hardly repentant.

If she is repentent and following the Lord, you arent "covering" for her. it is called her being restored to the body.

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She again follows with it's only been a short while and she needs more time to sort things out! We've been sitting in a leadership class that is dealing with conflict resolution and she has heard plenty about adultery over the last 6 weeks and it's Biblical consequences, but fails to make amends.

Rebellion!! You see, our kids know the difference between sin and rebellion. And there is a difference. If my kids throws a ball i nthe house and breaks a lamp, he has sinned. And he will be punished somehow. He knew better. But, if I am sitting in the room, and I tell him not to throw the ball, and he does anyway...that is rebellion. And the "discipline" that comes his way will be severe! Rebellion is different than sin. Hebrews 10 outlines what happens to the rebelling believer when it says that a believer, after hearing the truth as outlined in Scripture, still goes on sinning...that there are no sacrifices for sins!

Now have they lost their salvation? No. But, God is saying that He doesnt punish us a lot of times for the sins we commit because he loves us. Or they become less severe. Or, after the punishment, we are restored. But in this case, the believer that refuses to obey and keeps on sinning...God says "I am not going to help you...I am not going to protect you any longer. Yo uare on your own and you will meet the consequences of your sin on your own!"

Your wife keeps saying she deserves happiness. First off, God never promises happiness. As a matter of fact, he promises the opposite for the believer. What he promises is joy. Secondly, she had better not ask for what she deserves. None of us should. Because what we all deserve is eternal damnation.

Your wife is in a very bad place. That is bad...but it is good. It is good because she has a husband and church that love her enough to do what is necessary to save her.

As my pastor always prays..."WHATEVER it takes, Lord."

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Then, a couple we know back home who are also believers believe that I am moving to quickly and should not incourage church discipline. I have yet to get back to themm and ask them why, but again, the main issue here is that she is still unrepentant, and what is our Pastor supposed to do?

What is God telling you to do, Johng? You are the head of your house. You are your wife's head. You are the pastor of your home. Your wife is rebelling against God and against your rightful position as the head of her. What is God telling you to do? He might tell me to wait a little longer. He might tell you to do it now. You are the husband...you have the direct link to Him concerning matters of your family. Ask Him...then follow what He says. Your pastor is doing the same thing. As you said, the Lord has tied his hands.

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Of course, in her fog, she says that all these verses are very convienient for me. Hey, I did not write them! She IS nervous about the situation because she knows something like this will follow her where ever she goes.

They dont call the Holy Spirit the "hound dog of Heaven" for nothing. She will be surrounded by Satan and his demons. She will nto be able to find peace. She will cry out to God, and He will not hear her. Not until there is repentence! Again, as hebrews 10 says, it is a "terrible thing to fall into the hands of the Living God." She should be nervous. Unlike many luke-warm Christians, I fear the Lord. I love Him and I follow Him. But I also fear Him with respect and awe. She is rebelling against the God that made the Universe. Who does she think she is?

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I am glad to hear that other churches are holding up to the Word of God. Our church has only gone this route 2 times, but as I said, things are in the works but on hold at the moment.

johng

As I said above, the pastor of a wife is her husband...her secondary pastor is her church pastor. It is the husband's responsibility for the spiritual growth of his household. His wife is NOT held responsible for this. But with responsibility comes power and authority. Johng, you have the authority of Jesus Christ Himself in what you are doing. No way I am going to step in the way of that. Nor should anyone else, if they dont want to get "run over."

In His arms.
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Thus, the church is MANDATED by God to put her out and treat her as spiritually dead...that is until she comes to repentence.
I've read the verses and understand the concept of spiritual discipline. I do not see 'putting out' meaning the same thing as 'spiritually dead'. Maybe it's semantics. Maybe it's just me.

What concerns me about this is that if a person is considered spiritually dead after being saved -- it stands to reason that you can lose your salvation, which I don't believe.

Nothing that I need get myself tied up in a knot about, but it's an interesting conversation, that's all.
In our case, my WH was told by our pastors not to attend church, until he came in to talk to them. He has refused to do so. It makes me very sad, as we have been members of this church for 20 years.

But one thing that bothers me is that my WH says he is saved, and it doesn't matter that he is still living with OW, who is not a believer.

It's almost like once you are saved you can do whatever you want, and sin as much as like.

I am exremely grateful that my church stepped up to the plate. WH's family support his behavior, and our friends don't say anything to him. It made me feel good that the church took a stand.
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Thus, the church is MANDATED by God to put her out and treat her as spiritually dead...that is until she comes to repentence.
I've read the verses and understand the concept of spiritual discipline. I do not see 'putting out' meaning the same thing as 'spiritually dead'. Maybe it's semantics. Maybe it's just me.

What concerns me about this is that if a person is considered spiritually dead after being saved -- it stands to reason that you can lose your salvation, which I don't believe.

Nothing that I need get myself tied up in a knot about, but it's an interesting conversation, that's all.

As I said, you do not lose your salvation. It says that the church should treat them as a heathen or tax collector. Treat them AS IF they are spiritually dead. Treat them AS IF they have not been saved. That is until they come to repentence.

In His arms.
believer,

I understand your wonderings about salvation and people sinning and continuing to sin knowingly and still being saved. I belonged (for many years) to The Church of Christ, which believes you can lose your salvation. I had to be baptized twice because I'd "lost" my salvation once when I turned away from the church in my 20's.

Although "faith without works is dead"... works alone do not save. It's kind of confusing to me and I know God is not the author of confusion.

I truly believe that whatever *is*, well, just IS. God is one of those issues. No matter what we argue here on earth... God is. If we all decided that God is purple, still doesn't make it so if God is not purple. I can't change God.
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Treat them AS IF they are spiritually dead. Treat them AS IF they have not been saved. That is until they come to repentence.

Like shunning, then?

And yes, I understand the difference now. Thank you for explaining.
I like Mortarman belive that there is no loss of salvation.

First of all, once bought with a price, you are a child of God. Adopted into His family. If there was nothing you could do to gain salvation, there is certainly nothing you can do to preserve it nor lose it. If there were, then salvation would be by works, which is a direct contradiction to what Scripture teaches.

I liken it to many of us who are born into a family. Over the years, we may do something or a family member does something that causes a separation from the family or breaks ties with the family. A good example is a child that runs away or a family member that breaks off all communication.

In these cases we do not cease to part of the family. We are part of the family becasue we were born into it. Just because one member decides to part or say break communication, does not mean they are no longer part of the family.

Likewise with God, once part of His family, we cannot be removed. Why? Because He said so, and denying it would go counter to God's person. He cannot break a promise and He said once you are in His hand nothing can remove you.

So, I like Mortarman believe that in these cases, we have a simple situation of rebellion, much like the prodical son. At no point did he ever cease being a son in his family and when he reached rock bottom and came home, his father ran after him and welcomed him back home. Likewise should our response be to those that turn around and come home.

I only wish in these circumstances that more churches would follow the Biblical example of Matthew 18.

As my wife continually points out as she looks around at other christians, she sees many of them divorce and then go on and lead (seemingly from the outside) happy lives, and uses that as her barometer! I know it is silly and twisted thinking, but when trying to justify sin, one thinks of all kinds of stuff to fill the void.

johng
I posted this to someone on the recovery board. They were struggling about church. I did not want to type it over hear so I cut and pasted it.

want to apologize in advace for telling my story. If I can help someone or keep someone from making the same mistakes I made I would tell all. I wanted to post to see if I could help some with your decision to leave the church.

DDay was July 6, 2004. I asked my husband what did he and OW think that I was going to do upon his leaving our home. He said they both thought that I would leave the church. I did not. My son and I continued to go there. I beleive that was one of the reasons my husband felt so guilty and confessed when he did.

After DDay we continued to go to our chruch. It was very dificult but we were encouraged by other members to stay. They all thought the OW would leave. Many thought the Pastor would ask her to leave. Well she did not leave nor did anyone ask her to.

Everytime I went to church, for whatever reason, she was there. As I said before we had been there 7 years, my husband played the drums and my son was very active in the youth group.

Seeing the OW was hard. She would flaunt herself in front of me. To be honest with you I do not know how I did it. By Feb 2005 she had joined the church and the drama team. They allowed her to particapte in a drama on marriage. I total freaked out. I had been told that I could not particapte in any ministry because I smoked and I had not forgiven the OW. She could sleep with my husband and it was overlooked. It drove me crazy.

My husband and I did not return. We met with the pastor and shared our feelings. He said they never took any action because they needed a drummer. They needed my husband to play so they allowed her to do what she wanted. I had to sit and watch as my heart was ripped out. He did apologize for the way they had handled things. He said he beleived the OW was a sexual preditor and that he was concerned because she had gotten involved with yet another man in the church.

Staying at that church really delayed our recovery. I do not think we would have recovered if we had stayed. As long as we were at that church my husband would not do a no contact letter. He said the contact had stopped but they still had to see each other. When we left he could see the damage that had been done to me, him, our son's & us as a couple and a family.

True recovery started Feb 2005 when we left the church. It has been wonderful. It is the best thing we could have done.

I guess I am begging you not to stay. Recovery will be so hard and much more painful if you stay. I stayed until I almost had a nervous breakdown. Don't do that to yourself.

Biblically what does this mean? I gues what I am asking is since IMO the pastor did not handle this like it should have been handle so what happens with him?
Mortarman:

I have tried to use umpteen analogies with my W, but of course when the fog is thick, it clouds the mind.

She wonders why I would persue church disciple and I gave her the analogy of our daughter.

I said if our daughter ran away and became a cocaine addict and prostitue, would we no go and GET her? Would we not try and break this life pattern up? Would we not try and get her help? Of course we would. We would do everything in our power to "rescue" her. So, what is the difference? I am only trying to save you from yourself and a future of misery. Should I not try?

What person would let a drowning man drown? Would we not swim out or throw a life perserver to them? Or would we walk by and simply say, good luck, or whatever you want is best for me too!

I also liken this to people who are stuck in a cult. But in those cases, family members physically remove them and take them to deprogrammers! All of this is done to break that dependency!

I know that I am the spiritual head, and I know in the end, I will be held accountable. Therefore, I will err on the side of Scripture. Maybe my motive is off, but I want my wife back and am prepared to do the hard thing here. I will not tolerate her affair!

It is time for some tough love. She says she does not care what others say or think, well we will see how much she doesn't care when our kids find out the real reason for their mother not coming home.

What is God telling me to do? Part of me wants to believe that He is telling me to press forward and then at times I feel He is telling me to extend an arm in grace and love. It's a tough decision, but if needed, I'm willing to proceed because I have to align with Scripture and leave my emotions behind.

Thanks again.

john
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As my wife continually points out as she looks around at other christians, she sees many of them divorce and then go on and lead (seemingly from the outside) happy lives, and uses that as her barometer! I know it is silly and twisted thinking, but when trying to justify sin, one thinks of all kinds of stuff to fill the void.

johng

Yes they do. My wife did this also. Used their sins to justify hers. But what she didnt see and didnt know was what really had happened in their lives. how the divorce was passed down to their children, and now all of their children were having affairs, or failed marriages (which is what happened with my in-laws...they met thru adultery...and their kids fro mtheir previous marriage...plus my wife...have all been involved in adultery and in divorce). That legacy of pain and destruction goes down 4 generations according to the Bible.

Or other consequences...like loss of joy, emotional problems such as depression, etc. David in the Bible lost his child!! We never know for sure when or wha tthe discipline and consequences will be. But we can know that they WILL come because God has said so. Which makes your wife's rebellion, as mine did, a very dangerous place to be in.

In His arms.
LiftedUp,

There are several passages in Scripture of how God will handle pastors and church leaders that lead people astray. They are people in authority and will be held accountable.

Can you imagine the conversation your pastor will have with jesus upon his death, when he has to explain the lost souls and stunted believers that were the cause of his ministry? And he will say "But Lord...I needed a drummer." It is almost comical, if it werent so deadly serious.

Your pastor is in trouble with the Lord. And he should know that. That he doesnt means he is not in communion with God, and is leading the entire flock in a direction that God does not want him to go. And unless someone holds him accountable and tells him he is wrong and that he needs to repent, then that church will see discipline fro mthe Lord.

If you have tried to do this, and he still will not repent, then it is best that you move to a church that is interested in God's Word.

In His arms.
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Mortarman:

I have tried to use umpteen analogies with my W, but of course when the fog is thick, it clouds the mind.

But the seed is laid. Do not underestimate that!! Deep down in that fog, that seed is germinating. Trust God in that.

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She wonders why I would persue church disciple and I gave her the analogy of our daughter.

I said if our daughter ran away and became a cocaine addict and prostitue, would we no go and GET her? Would we not try and break this life pattern up? Would we not try and get her help? Of course we would. We would do everything in our power to "rescue" her. So, what is the difference? I am only trying to save you from yourself and a future of misery. Should I not try?

What person would let a drowning man drown? Would we not swim out or throw a life perserver to them? Or would we walk by and simply say, good luck, or whatever you want is best for me too!

I also liken this to people who are stuck in a cult. But in those cases, family members physically remove them and take them to deprogrammers! All of this is done to break that dependency!

These are all good analogies. And again, they are seeds you have left in your wife's mind. They will sit there. And try as she might, she cant make false what is the truth. That is what will continually cause her anguish and pain.

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I know that I am the spiritual head, and I know in the end, I will be held accountable. Therefore, I will err on the side of Scripture. Maybe my motive is off, but I want my wife back and am prepared to do the hard thing here. I will not tolerate her affair!

Your motive is fine. it is God's will that your wife gets back to being your wife. So, nothing wrong with wanting the same thing God wants.

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It is time for some tough love. She says she does not care what others say or think, well we will see how much she doesn't care when our kids find out the real reason for their mother not coming home.

Careful. I know what you mean by this, but be careful. That is their mother. I am not saying that you shouldnt tell them, and I am not saying that you dont tell them it is wrong. Just please be careful in how you say it. if it appears like an attack by you, kids will, no matter what their parent did...come to their defense. There is a fine line here. Just please be careful. And on her caring what other people say...that's fine. But she had better care what Jesus has to say. Because she wont be able to ignore Him soon!

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What is God telling me to do? Part of me wants to believe that He is telling me to press forward and then at times I feel He is telling me to extend an arm in grace and love. It's a tough decision, but if needed, I'm willing to proceed because I have to align with Scripture and leave my emotions behind.

Thanks again.

john

John, then here's what you pray..."Lord, I am not quite sure which way you want me to go. So, I am stepping forward on faith that the church discipline way is what you want me to do. If it is not what you want me to do, then please put up walls so that I will be stopped and so that I can discern Your will. But if it is Your will, please open doors for me." That's it. Then you do not have to worry. You know why? Because yo uare stepping forward on faith, as outlined in Scripture, and asked God to do His will and to show you His will.

You are NEVER wrong in doing this. And you WILL find out the right answer!!

In His arms.
Mortarman:

<But what she didnt see and didnt know was what really had happened in their lives. how the divorce was passed down to their children, and now all of their children were having affairs, or failed marriages

Funny you should mention this. I said this to my wife and my MC even said this to my wife. He said what will you do when your daughter comes to you and wants to end her marriage say after 6 years instead of 23. What will you tell her? Will she see you as hypocritical?

Her answer to the MC and to me as well was, "go talk to your father and ask him what he did to cause me to fall into this situation!"

Yep, continually blame me for the whole situation. She still does blame me TOTALLY. She says she has no blame in it and that if it weren't for "me" and the way I treated her, this would never have happened! No truer words could have been spoken from the addicted! The addicted always find blame in someone else for their addiction or problems and never look at themselves, that is until they reach rock bottom.

I also know that she is headed for destruction of some sort if she does not turn around. Our MC also explained to her that she will lead a life of misery, not happiness as she believes. Eventually, when this relationship fails, she will see herself as a failure and this will only lead to further problems with her selfworth. She will continue to withdraw from God and lead a Godless life, without her children and without her Prince Chraming.

All of us know that it IS inevitable and will eventually make itself manifest in her life. I'm just hoping and praying that it is sooner than later.

You/we can run from God as David tried to do, but you cannot hide from God. Just as with Adam, God knows where we are at. Hopefully, my W finds God before He has to come looking for her!

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That legacy of pain and destruction goes down 4 generations according to the Bible.

Mortarman,

If my husband has repented of his adultery, can our children still be affected generationally. This has been a question I have been thinking about so I'm thankful you brought it into this conversation.

Lady
Lady,

Not Mortarman, and don't presume to speak for him, but my answer to you would be know in a spiritual sense.

What we are talking about here is UN-repented sin. At some point, the Bible does say, "your sin will find you out."

Again, you can run but you cannot hide. Now, there are consequences to sin and even sin that has been repented. I am remined of Aiken in the book of Joshua. He committed a sin and the penalty was death. He repented, but he was still stoned to death! Think of the murderer, bank robber etc. Even if they repent, they still suffer the consequences of their behavior.

As in the case of repented Adultery, the consequences might be lack of trust, children that have a hard time accepting the fact that a spouse cheated on the other parent, etc. Most of all, just as with accidents that leave scars to remind us of what happened, there are those emotional scars that remain a lifetime.

Yes, there is forgiveness and healing, but many scars will remain for a lifetime. Remember though that God will bury any sin in the deepest depths and never remember it again. Problem is, we are not God and the scars from an affair will probably last forever.

just my 2 cents.

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That legacy of pain and destruction goes down 4 generations according to the Bible.

Mortarman,

If my husband has repented of his adultery, can our children still be affected generationally. This has been a question I have been thinking about so I'm thankful you brought it into this conversation.

Lady

Can he be? Of course! God can do ANYTHING. He heals the blind.

Will He take it away? I do not know that. Sometimes He leaves the consequences for reasons that are not readily apparent to us.

You see, the consequences are there no matter what. We CHOSE to sin. Thus we CHOSE the consequences. But when God gave out free will, He didnt give up his own freewill. So, even though we are responsible for the consequences, he might CHOOSE to take away some or all of the consequences. And He would be right in doing it or not doing it. And whether He did it or not take it away, the consequences still rest with us.

The easy thing to have done is to not have done it. And when we screw up, we hope that it wont be passed on to our kids. But even in repentence, sometimes it is. just ask the crack baby or the woman that passed on a disease to her baby because of adultery.

So, the short answer is "Yes" he can take it away. but He might not. And if He doesnt, you will have to trust that the reason is for His glory and probably to help those involved.

In His arms.
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Lady,

Not Mortarman, and don't presume to speak for him, but my answer to you would be know in a spiritual sense.

What we are talking about here is UN-repented sin. At some point, the Bible does say, "your sin will find you out."

Again, you can run but you cannot hide. Now, there are consequences to sin and even sin that has been repented. I am remined of Aiken in the book of Joshua. He committed a sin and the penalty was death. He repented, but he was still stoned to death! Think of the murderer, bank robber etc. Even if they repent, they still suffer the consequences of their behavior.

As in the case of repented Adultery, the consequences might be lack of trust, children that have a hard time accepting the fact that a spouse cheated on the other parent, etc. Most of all, just as with accidents that leave scars to remind us of what happened, there are those emotional scars that remain a lifetime.

Yes, there is forgiveness and healing, but many scars will remain for a lifetime. Remember though that God will bury any sin in the deepest depths and never remember it again. Problem is, we are not God and the scars from an affair will probably last forever.

just my 2 cents.

john

Good stuff John. But one thing I will say...they wont last forever. When we get to Heaven, all of our sins will be gone. We will have new, perfect bodies. There will only be one person in Heaven with scars...you will know Him!

In His arms.
Mortarman:

Forever? I guess I should have been more accurate in my term forever. I did mean only in this world. I realize that once in heaven will will have glorified bodies and all the wood, hay and stubble will be burned up.

Clearly, the scars of our sins are ever present in this world whether visible or not. Afterall, Adam and Eve needed fig leaves to cover themselves after they fell into sin whereas before the fall, they were naked and not ashamed. Likewise, we are constantly trying to cover the scars from our sins with those figurative fig leaves!
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But one thing that bothers me is that my WH says he is saved, and it doesn't matter that he is still living with OW, who is not a believer.

It's almost like once you are saved you can do whatever you want, and sin as much as like.


Believer, I wanted to respond to your post because it seems like something you said has "gotten lost" in all the posting, but it's a very important thing to consider.

This is something that Paul addressed extensively regarding "Christian liberty" and "Sinning so that Grace might abound." I won't rehash all of that now, as you can look it up easier than I can type it all, but I want to talk about it and opine about it, perhaps as something you could discuss with your husband.

There is that "pesky" little Parable about the soils and the sower. There is that "pesky" little stuff that James wrote about "faith without works." There is that "pesky" little thing that Christ said about sin and "church discipline." And there are other "pesky" little things that touch on reality according to God (and not what we conjure up in our own "fallen" minds to justify sinning).

Believer, a true conversion experience results in a "new creation" spiritually. The Holy Spirit indwells(becomes a permanent part of) ourselves, convicting, teaching, revealing to us God's will and guiding us on the pathway of Sanctification. According to Christ (who is "pretty good" authority on exactly WHAT God means and says), "NO ONE" can snatch a "saved one" out of His hand. In short, it is impossible. Yes, a "saved one" can fall into sin and "get lost" for a while, but, like the Prodigal Son, they never stop being a "child of God." In those cases, Jesus goes looking for them to help lead them back to the "fold." It's really not hard for Jesus to "find them," as the Holy Spirit is "along for the ride wherever they might try to hide or whatever "excuse" they might try to hide behind.

So, let's look at the "logic" of your husband to justify his sinning in adultery.

1. He is saved, so he can do whatever he wants to do. Christ did NOT die on the cross so that he could have a "get out of firey jail free" card, but have NO change in his behavior to become more "Christ-like." What he is saying is the same thing that Satan said to Eve, "God didn't really mean what He said, you will NOT die."

In the parable of the soils, believers are cautioned to "examine thyself" to know that your belief is not merely an emotional reaction to "the moment." When trials come, it is to Christ we are to cling, not to Satan's lies.

I would submit that NO ONE who is living in UNrepentant adultery CAN be "saved" if they die in that state. The Scripture is QUITE CLEAR that among those who will NOT be in heaven are Adulterers. Since adultery is NOT the "one unforgiveable sin," those who have repented of their sin and "returned" to God will be forgiven and will be in heaven. This is the idea behind "you can run but you can't hide from God" and "your sin will find you out." Sin, in the lives of believers, WILL be confronted so that the Holy Spirit can cause "conviction" of the sin in the believer SO THAT they will repent and "get right with God."

IF they steadfastly refuse to repent, and still claim to be a believer, Christ tells the church to "get involved" in the process. We are NOT islands, as believers. We are all part of "One Body, Many Parts." What your husband is saying is essentially that since he is a part of Christ's body (the bridegroom and the bride become "one flesh") it is "OKAY" for Christ to sin and do as He pleases without ANY need to submit to the Father's will. That's precisely WHAT Jesus taught us in the Garden of Gethsemene, right? Jesus chose to "obey His own will" instead of submitting His will to the Father's will, right? Therefore, Christ DID NOT die on the cross FOR US because HE was saved and didn't "have to" be obedient to the Father's will, right?

2. Your husband is NOT saved. There will be many, at the last day, who Christ will tell "away from me, I never knew you." They believed SATAN and not God. They chose to believe a lie and not the truth, in order to satisfy their selfish desires. They, like Lot's wife, "looked back" in disobedience and did not "obey God." After all, what harm can come from "one little look?"

"THOU SHALT NOT"...is no mere suggestion. It is a command of God that allow NO "wiggle room," no "justification" for indulging willful sin, no "trampling underfoot" the tremendous price that Jesus paid for us to rescue us from the penalty of sin.

Does your husband honestly believe that because you are married, it's for LIFE, regardless of what he chooses to do? Don't be ridiculous or that blind. We ARE all "children of God" in the sense that all humans are the created creatures of God the Father. But that will NOT guarantee us the "inheritance" of eternal life with God. Jesus the "bridegroom" brings with Him the "dowry" of forgiveness, restoration, reconciliation, and a "re-creation" of our souls when we "marry Him." It "changes" from an "unevenly yoked" marriage situation to an "evenly yoked in Christ" marriage.

Your husband is playing with his faith as if he were an "unbeliever" married to Christ. IF an unbelieving spouse chooses to "leave" (that is, to take up in adultery with some "other" spouse or chooses to abandon YOU (you being yourself or Christ)), Christ the bridegroom will LET him/her go, just as Paul advises believers caught up in that same situation. Adulterers WILL NOT be in heaven (and therefore are NOT saved)...IF they continue in unrepentant sin. The "works" of the flesh are EVIDENT and EVIDENCE against their self-serving claim to be "saved."

believer - sin, temptations, trials, etc. WILL happen to all Christians. We are admonished to put on the "full armor of God" so that when those things do happen we will be able to withstand, and be able to STAND for God and not be overwhelmed.

Your husband is "playing with fire" in more ways than one. Does he really think that he can "presume upon God" to say "it's okay, you go right on willfully sinning one of the worst sins, and it'll be alright, I won't do or say anything against you." Like God won't say, "Away from me, I NEVER knew you." What awful words awaits many who are caught up in self-delusion by Pride and Selfishness.

Your husband seems to be hiding behind the misuse of the phrase "judge not." Christians ARE commanded to "judge" other Christians, and to use their outward "works," and the statements that proceed out of their mouths(reflecting where their heart is) as evidence of where their soul is...in concert with or enmity with God. The intent is NOT "punishment," the intent is "I AM my brother's keeper." We are to come alongside of struggling Christians to help them to repent and reconcile with God concerning known and willful sin that leads down the WIDE path to destruction. To warn them. To cry out, "Beware, the bridge is OUT if you continue in that direction no matter how "safe" you think you are."

believer, if there is any way that you could print this post out and give it to your husband, I'd urge you to do that. If there is any way to involve the church in "church discipline," I would urge that. IF your husband is saved (and only God knows for certain), then it is incumbent upon us as fellow believers to CONFRONT sin and "call it, and his actions" for what it is.....anathema to God and NOT a part of an Christian's life....regardless of personal feelings. "Thou shalt NOT..." leaves NO room for human argumentation...God HAS spoken and given His decree and judgment. "....nevertheless, not MY will but your will be done, Father."

God bless.
Hey Nyneve,

I blame in all on that old Martin Luther...

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there is no loss of salvation

One could claim the "prodigal son" approach, but it seems more like a legalistic excuse the Pharisees would use.

Our relationship with God isn't a legal one---we aren't going to win our argument to enter the kingdom with Perry Mason at our side doing an excellent job of advocating all our good points, while minimizing our failures. It's a familial relationship (father:son/daughter). But I think it's a grave misreading of scripture to believe that one's salvation is simply based on "acceptance of Jesus as your savior", with complete disregard to your efforts to follow Jesus's teachings.

Be safe. Believe. Do good. Do not do ill. Pray for forgiveness. Seems to be pretty simple, at least in theory...
Hi K <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />,

You know, what you say makes perfect sense...

We must take responsibility for our actions. I totally believe this. And there are consequences - always - for our actions.

...and yet...

I spend my life asking forgiveness... for each and every time I mis-step... sin...

Underlying it all is a fear I'll lose my place in the 'family of God'...

I don't have to ask my mom and dad to let me back in the family when I go against what they have taught... have said... have shown me though example... because I am *always* their daughter... whether I ask forgiveness or not. Am I always God's daughter? I thought so. I think so.

Faith without works is dead... I see that in the Bible. I believe it, too. I can say I am loving, but if I don't act in a loving and compassionate way... who would know it? Who would believe it?

Reminds me of a saying I used to hear: If you were on trial for being a Christian, would they find enough evidence to convict you?

I find this discussion interesting, although it has nothing much to do with divorce and remarriage. Or does it?

Hmmm...

Oh, and the 'shunning' aspect to some people's belief system seems especially cruel to me. Even Jesus went to those we would consider less-than-desireable and drew them into the fold.

I'm in complete agreement with your "rules" and do live by them. Sometimes it concerns me that it isn't enough, that's all.
K - not at all sure what you were referring to, or whose comments you were talking about. But you said something that prompted me to think a follow-up question or two, to you, was in order.

To refresh what it is you said, you said the following:
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But I think it's a grave misreading of scripture to believe that one's salvation is simply based on "acceptance of Jesus as your savior", with complete disregard to your efforts to follow Jesus's teachings.


So, K, are you advocating that salvation is NOT a free gift of Grace and that it must be earned by some modicum of "good works?" If that is so, was the thief on the cross lied to by Jesus when he was told that he would be saved and in heaven THAT day? If not, what "Following of Jesus' teaching's did the thief do other than to believe on Him and accept Him as his Savior?

The "grave misreading" of Scripture you refer to....would that be "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast."? (Eph.2:8-9)

Looking forward to your response, to better understand what you might have been trying to say.

btw, K, how did you get a registration date of 1969? I didn't know that MB even existed in 1969!

God bless.
FH,

Of course, I won't be addressing your Biblical/Spiritual questions to K, but I can address this:

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K - not at all sure what you were referring to, or whose comments you were talking about.


He was referring to me and to my post above. I am/was Nyneve. Long story about my name, which I won't bore you with... but his remarks were regarding what I said.

Carry on...
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fornication, i.e., spiritual and/or sexual immorality


Edited to retract...I see that this was addressed...
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by AskMe
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I look at the sins Paul describes and I see myself in all of them.
Our hearts truly are desperately wicked and only by the grace of God are we saved.

AskMe, what is your opinion of divorce (based on Scripture)?
If a man divorces his wife because she commits sexual adultery is divorce justified?
Can the man remarry?
When you get a chance can you read this commentary and let me know your thoughts?
I am recently divorced and would appreciate your views.

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/joined/joined_contents.html


Let's see if I can make this into a devotion about marriage and divorce.

Genesis 2:22-24
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

We know from the point of God that He intended for a man and woman to unite together. They were to be an independent unit away from the homes of their parents. They were to create a family and care for that family.

Matthew 19:4-6
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Jesus reiterated this message that man and woman would join together as one couple, as one body and as one of thoughts. Jesus tells us this is a covenant under God made between man and woman and they should not to break this covenant.

Marriage was not to be taken lightly and neither was divorce. Jesus said that God didn't intend for divorce, but allowed it under Mosaic law. The intent was marry, stay married and stay faithful to one another.

Matthew 18:7-9
�Then why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away?� they asked. Jesus replied, �Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery�unless his wife has been unfaithful.

So again we see Jesus reaffirming the covenant of marriage. Hard hearts is why Moses mediated with God for divorce. Divorce was not in God's plan, neither were multiple marriages or multiple spouses. I know there are a few others in The Bible, but Job always comes to mind as the one faithful person who had one spouse and remained faithful to her even through all the pain and suffering he endured.

Hebrews 13:4-7
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

God intended marriage and sex to go together. Couples should be able to enjoy each other freely without sin. It bothers me when people try to make sex something dirty because it should be a lovely experience shared between two people who mutually agree on what they are doing. The reason I believe some families try to make it dirty is to prevent promiscuous behavior in their children, which is wrong. Honesty about subjects at a level appropriate for a child's age is always the best answer.

1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Again we see that sex within marriage is a good thing. For those who have a strong desire for sex that need can be fulfilled within marriage. I want to emphasize the part about mutual consent. Sex should be treated respectfully between each other, never making the other person an object to be used. We also find there are some who can be happy as a single person. There is nothing wrong with being single and is an honorable thing if one remains so. We also see the problems unlike beliefs can create between husband and wife and for their children. It is why it is so important a Christian person desires a Christian spouse. It's not that two people cannot be married and have different beliefs, but there will be issues that have to be resolved. The verse also reminds us of the importance of marriage to one another and that through one's faith in Christ an unbelieving spouse may also find Christ.

There was a question about remarrying when divorce occurs. I knew a couple that divorced over matters related to sex. They had two children and this is where I think a verse from Malachi is important. Malachi 2:16 from the NLT translation says, "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." The wife was left with the children and the children also suffered because the father was not always there. Well several years passed and neither remarried. The wife became ill and needed help with the children. The husband who had been working on his issues moved back in to help with their kids. The husband slept separately from the wife for over a year, helping, caring and providing. The wife saw the change in her husband and decided she wanted to reconcile. They worked together through counseling and found the hope they looked for. They are happily remarried at this time. Praise God.

So I think as long as there is a possibility for reconciliation a Christian should hold out to see if remarrying might be a possibility. But once the other spouse has remarried that hope is gone and I see no issue with remarrying.

There are other reasons for divorce such as safety of the family. My mother divorced my father because he was an abusive alcoholic. His ways never changed. Had she remained married to him I believe the results could have been terrible. He tried to shoot her, tried to run her over with a car, tried to stab her, but fortunately he was always too drunk to succeed. For the safety of the family there are times when divorce is necessary. My father remained an alcoholic the rest of his life. I only saw him for 5 minutes when I was 10 years old and he was drunk and my mom told him to leave and that was the last time I saw him until I attended his funeral. My mom's mistake was in marrying someone who was not a Christian and who she did not know much about.

One final word on all of this. Divorce impacts live, especially if children are evolved. Divorce should never be taken lightly and marriage should be done with a thought of commitment. However,we should remember there is no sin that cannot be forgiven by God except for the rejection of the Holy Spirit, which means a person rejects God's salvation through Christ. So no matter what has taken place there is always forgiveness from God. God would like us all to live perfect and holy lives, but He knows we can't do it. So God gave us Jesus so that when we fail there is mercy and grace.

I'm sure others may want to comment and I always welcome another's opinion.
Here is commentary from the Orthodox Church on Mathew 5 concerning divorce:

Divorce

31. It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement. Moses commanded that if a man hated his wife, he should be separated from her lest anything worse occur." For if he hated her, he might kill her. Moses also commanded that the husband give the divorced woman a writing of divorcement. By this writing she could no longer return to him, thus preventing the confusion that would result if she did so and he was now living with another woman.

32. But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Christ does not abolish the Mosaic decrees but corrects them by making the husband fearful of hating his wife without cause. If he divorces her with good cause, that is, if she has committed adultery, he is not condemned. But if there has been no fornication, he is condemned, for by divorcing her he compels her to commit adultery. And he that takes her is also an adulterer, for if he had not taken her she would have returned and submitted to her husband. For a Christian must be a peacemaker, both towards others and even more so towards his own wife.
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