Anyone who understands the concepts of Marriage Builders. No matter how long they have been here. I know people who have been here for 12 years who have never owned a book and wouldn't know the POJA from a PITA sandwich.

On the other hand, I know people who have been here for 2 months who know as much or more than me, read almost every book, been through the course and listened to hundreds of hours of the MB radio show.

It is not an exclusive club at all. We have good folks who show up here every day who know alot about Marriage Builders. Anyone who knows the program and is willing to help others is an invaluable asset to this board, no matter how long they have been here. And I call them all "vets.."

That, and the ability to help a cow in labour...

Aw, Mel... how do you really feel?


Hey, guys! There are quite a few of you out there who "get it!"

Don't just say "wait for the vets!"

Don't be afeared (misspelled on porpoise!) to make a mistake or be wrong! That provides you with an opportunity to learn!

Learn to scan the available articles! As you become familiar with them, you will be able to recall them so that you can quote and link them!

It's not rocket science, it's Marriage Building!

It's LABOR, you silly foreigner!

Well said, HHH!

I'm impressed with the evolution of your gentle communication... and to think, I was all ready to post a "pitbull-with-lipstick" pic on your "special" thread!

Why yes, I am very gentle, thankyew!

Maybe one day I can follow... sadly, I am very gentle outside of text...

/shrug

I am no Vet, but I did homebirth baby #4. It wasn't as easy as helping my farmer father deliver cows while growing up in the midwest.

My parents didn't do discipline, nope they did - delivering animals, laying pipe in 100 degree weather, or cleaning the horse poop in the barn. Yep, step out of line and my dad has some form of animal fluid that needed cleaning. I hated him for years ...

I can see now why I am such a fighter...

I guess I can incorporate that toughness now into the sissy's who refuse to EXPOSE. Darn fools!!!!

Get outta here!

You have a well demonstrated grasp on the MB concepts.

Not a vet... pff...

FYI

The term "MB vet" was a welcome change from "MB pro". Which we universally reject.

People used to start threads saying something like:

"Call out to the pros" .....

Once I become a pro, I will demand a salary. A large one.

I'd say that I am a Plan B vet, but not an MB vet. I don't feel comfortable enough with my advice on subjects such as recovery, POJA since I don't have personal experience, and I haven't seen enough on the boards yet. I do find it funny when someone whom I would consider a "vet" talk about how the "vets" will come along soon and advise better.

I agree that it doesn't matter how long you have been here, what matters is that you advice is ALWAYS in line with MB principles. We are all still learning about MB. I have even seen Mel and Pep discuss different viewpoints, which is GREAT for us, and even better for them.

And to you MB vets, understand this, although you may not consider yourselves a "vet", we do, and that's what matters. We trust your advice, and we thank you.

Are we using 'vet' as a verb or a noun or both
verb #2. seems to be it........


vet
Also found in: Medical, Acronyms, Wikipedia 0.01 sec.
vet 1 (vt) Informal
n.
A veterinarian.
v. vet�ted, vet�ting, vets
v.tr.
1. To subject to veterinary evaluation, examination, medication, or surgery.
2. To subject to thorough examination or evaluation: vet a manuscript.
v.intr.
To engage in the practice of veterinary medicine.
vet 2 (vt)
n. Informal
A veteran.
The American Heritage� Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright �2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
vet1
n
(Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Veterinary Science) short for veterinary surgeon
vb vets, vetting, vetted
1. (tr) Chiefly Brit to make a prior examination and critical appraisal of (a person, document, scheme, etc.) the candidates were well vetted See also positive vetting
2. (Life Sciences & Allied Applications / Veterinary Science) to examine, treat, or cure (an animal)
vet2
n
(Military) US and Canadian short for veteran [2] [3]
Collins English Dictionary � Complete and Unabridged � HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003

I hope to be a vet!

I feel like a vet in some ways, even though I have not posted much here. I feel like a vet in handling infidelity (exposing) and am getting there in recovery, but still need help in that area at times.

I'm not a vet at Plan B because I didn't have to do it, thankfully, but I do get the concept and agree with it wholeheartedly.

I DO consider you a "vet" because you know the program and have alot to share with newcomers. That is my definition of a "vet."

Whoa, the power of positive thinking! Here I am, thinking about Scotty and she shows up!

I was thinking about Scotty because I consider her a "Plan B Vet". I defer to Scotty every time when someone asks about Plan B - I understand Plan B as a part of the program, but Scotty has worked that Plan. I was never in Plan B.

Now, if you want to know about the wisdom of exposure, I'm your girl and I'll throw in my two cents every time. Or why striking your remorseful husband is not considered an appropriate recovery action. Or the importance of implementing EPs.

Other posters are the go-to posters for things like having to deal with an affair where there is an OC. Or dealing with unremorseful waywards. Or being able to talk about legal aspects of affairs. Everyone here, in one way or another, is a 'vet' of some aspect of adultery.

The binding agent is understanding MB concepts and using them as the foundation for any response to posters coming here for help.

You are not alone, although I seldom speak about this.

Scotty, I do consider you a VET, because you do understand Marriage Builders and even have special experience in Plan B. You also have a good, level head on your shoulders. Common sense goes a LONG way in this business.

I will never forget reading BarnBoy's or Markos's posts when they had only been here for a couple of weeks, and learning something I did not know. The same thing with many of the folks on this thread. Reading came here knowing quite a bit and has been an invaluable help to others.

Contrast that to the occasional threads we see over the years for self proclaimed "old timers" who show up for cameo appearances. They pronounce themselves as "seasoned" "wisened" "sages" based only on the fact that they signed up 10+ years ago. Rarely do they even know anything about Marriage Builders. Often they don't even support Marriage Builders.

I'm no vet either. I consider myself a student (perpetually?).

I never home-birthed a baby, but I did deliver my middle child (on the bathroom floor)!

Also, I kind of consider my self a "jonny-come-lately" to it all. We were three years post-d-day and well into recovery and just needed a few missing pieces that MB helped provide.

...folks who show up here every day who know alot about Marriage Builders....who knows the program and is willing to help others ....all "vets."

I think there is a further element required that is deucedly hard to define - for simplicity let me define it as "knowledgeable empathy".

It is the paired abilities to be totally versed in the MB Principles and have the sixth sense to understand the difficulties that the "clients" are having in understanding and applying them to their own situation, and re-presenting the concepts back to them in terms specifically applicable to that situation.

In other words, it's not enough to state, "Mr XYZ, here is the appropriate MB citation." What makes a true vet is the skill/confidence to state, "Here is the MB citation, and here is why it works, and can be best applied in the XYZ marital issue."

This lays along Bloom's Taxonomy (Knowledge, Comprehension, Application, Analysis, Synthesis, Evaluation), btw.

Those who have my admiration of "vets" actually do not have it directly because of demonstrated knowledge, experience, or expertise alone.

Those whom I truly admire and respect here I do so because of their mistakes.

From Hagakure:


There is at least one person that I have learned - with a steady eye - has made just about every mistake there is to make.

And with that knowledge, I am a little more understanding of their stance.

Durn it, NG, you're making my head hurt with all that fancy lingo!

Far too large of words.

Assessment, diagnosis, planning, intervention, evaluation.

ADPIE.

You couldn't be a nurse with your $10 engineer words!

Durn it, NG, you're making my head hurt with all that fancy lingo!

Sorry, got carried away!

Bloom's basically classifies the depth/breadth of expertise in a given area of information. In general terms it means knowing something, knowing you know something, knowing how to use something, knowing the pieces of the something, and considering how to develop(or discover) a new something, and knowing which of several somethings are preferable.

Assuming Dr. Harley (since he developed the MB discipline) has to be at the Evaluation tier, a "vet" here would have to be easily at the Analysis tier, breaking into Synthesis.

(And "NO", there is no tier beyond Evaluation called "Texan"!)

ETA: Trip, they're not Engineering-related. They are pedagogical.

So sez the yankee devil...

I only ask that if I ever come here and proclaim myself a "seasoned" "wizened" "sage" and "old timer" worthy of respect only because of my length of time here, that you all knock the hale out of me!!

The truth is that I have been married THREE FREAKING TIMES and I only know how to screw up marriages. The only reason I have a good marriage today is because of Dr Harley and this program. The only "wizened" "sage" around here is Dr Harley.

p.s. shaddup, NG!!

Aaaaaand, there it is.

And, the lettuce incident.

And the addiction.

And one statement one time "in my wayward days..."

Yes, I guarantee this vet. And no longer question the need for a rigid nature and approach.

Thanks for contributing, sister.

Man, don't disarm my little opening to rib you!

Er, make that everybody's opening.

My my multi-syllabic vocabulary isn't in conversational English, rather in chemistry, biology, anatomy, and physiology... Which is expected to be reduced and analogized to layman's terms.

Don't know why, it makes perfect sense to me!

A vet is someone who can put up with the bulls#%* spewed by new WSs, and who feels comfortable 2x4ing a new BS. I am not in that group yet, nor do I think I ever will be.

Back atcha, brother!

The problem is when the BS/WS refuses to see the wisdom. Vets can keep hearing B-B-B-BUT MY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT IT WILL NOT WORK!!!111eleventy!111 and keep going.

Its good exercise for our 2x4's!

Will you GET OUTTA here, and spoil your H/get spoiled!

Sheesh, how can we talk about you when you aren't around when you NEVER LEAVE!

Excuse me....but.....maybe I haven't been around long enough yet?......but why would you want to 2X4 a new BS?

Was I ever on the "2x4 list"?

Melody - any chance you spewed your own fog before? If yes, love to hear some examples!!!

Most of my 2x4s have been used on BS's who are too busy crying to get up and help themselves!! I sometimes have to whomp them up side of the head to WAKE THEM UP!!! Get off the train tracks!!!

HHH, I have been out with my sweetheart all afternoon!

2x4ing a new BS means...well, let's say they do something particularly...bad.

Like you. Let's say you as a BH moved out and you had a homemaker wife with 2 young kids.

We would 2x4 you for something like that, ESPECIALLY if you had been told beforehand not to!

Also, we'd do the same thing for someone who refused to expose...

Fear, Bull. Fear.

Many a BS arrives paralyzed with fear and grief. This leads to a strange arrogance; my situation is different! My situation is special!

Exposure won't work! Plan A won't work! Plan B won't work!

Its like that scene in Airplane! where the woman starts having a breakdown, and some grabs a hold and starts smacking her "Snap out of it! Get a hold of yourself, and listen!"

And the camera pans back to a line of people willing to assist her in "snapping out of it."

ok, here is a GREAT ONE!

This is horrible to read now, but here is my post to Dr Harley back then:

Hi Dr. Harley, we are struggling with the implementation of POJA. I knew this would be a problem for me because of my penchant for independent behavior. [I scored a 20 on your test and DH scored a 5] But he seems to continually engage in angry outbursts. Over micky mouse stuff, usually related to money, even though we make a good living and are financially comfortable.

Can you look at this dialogue, which happened in the grocery store today, and tell me how this should be done? This is the 2nd week in a row he has exploded in the grocery store. You had mentioned learning POJA skills in the grocery store and it is not going well!

Mel: does a salad sound good to you for dinner?
DH: that's fine
We approach the produce section and DH picks up a head of lettuce

Mel: I had planned on getting kale, romaine or spinach because there is no nutritional value in lettuce
DH: says nothing
MEL: grabs a bag of shredded romaine lettuce
DH: I REFUSE TO PAY THAT MUCH FOR A BAG OF LETTUCE!!! [it is $2.99 whereas the head of lettuce is $.89] PUT IT BACK!!
Mel, horrified and embarrassed at this outburst, tries to ignore him because she can't believe he is acting so disrespectfully over $2.99
DH follows her and says again: "MEL, PUT THAT BACK!! I REFUSE!!"

I take the salad dressing I am carrying, slam it into the cart and say "that's it, I am done" and leave the store. He follows me out to the car with "I'm sorry, I'm sorry, you can go back in and get the groceries. I will stay out here and leave you alone."

We had a similar scene the week before where he went into a rage over tortillas. I tossed 2 packages into the cart and then decided to add another. [we had company coming] He pitched a fit and demanded I put back the 3rd package.

Dr. Harley, just so you know, I am 50 years old, have a successful career, and am financially comfortable, and can damn well afford tortillas and romaine lettuce.

Every time he has one of these meltdowns over micky mouse stuff, I can hardly stand him for a week. What do you suggest?

*Bill* not Bull... Unless, of course, you resemble Richard Moll aka Bull Shannon from Night Court...

Bingo!!

OH HECK!!!.....the day after D-Day I stood nose to nose with the OM and let him know in great detail what would happen if he went ANYWHERE near my Wife again!!
I was FULLY awake!.....and that week I exposed him to his wife, and exposed him to his own children, exposed him to his office staff......I was awake!


I understand.......I see my situation as exactly as you experienced people have told me it would be.
"WW is Foggy".......CHECK
"WW demonstrates Alien behavior"....CHECK
"WW blames everyone but themselves"....CHECK
"WW is MAD AS HE!! about exposure"....CHECK
Well.....you were right!!

I'm just Happy that I don't get the 2X4!!!!!

As a BS who received well-deserved 2x4's early on, I thank you. I have been known to hand out the occasional 2x4 to a new BS, but I tend to hand them out now to BSs in Plan B. I actually have a harder time posting to WSs so I don't seem to give them many 2x4's

to me a vet is a person that take time out of their day with full knowledge that they could be spending time with their families to impart a bit of wisdom on the rest of us that come here for the first time with no where to turn.

they guide and get frustrated, but they still keep plugging away and many of us come back to say the vet are right after not following what they say, but they dont expect that and thats not why they are here. thats what they call a vet, they are the ones, who no matter what still keep coming back for the greater good.

i thanks all those that have helped me though i may have a remorseful H - and they know who needs the special help so if you find yourself luck to hear from one of the vets , stop think and realize that they know what they are taking about, you are no different than the rest sorry, your situatition is not different. we are all in the the same boat just different winds....

be grateful for the advice no matter how hard it is to hear.

Chick,

Re: you as you're the last post.

I defer many times because I am neither a BS or WS. I arrived here for different reasons, so I defer not so much to "vets", but to those that can directly relate where I can't, or shouldn't even pretend to, I think. There are so many here that I can only "imagine" pain versus reality.

I can't post things like "I know what you are saying", because I can't. I've pi--ed off some as I defer, but it's not that I can't talk MB, but rather because I think it's offensive to come off as first-hand empathetic when I am simply not.

I just love MBs an support the concepts.

I dont think anyone wants to be a MB vet, per se.

I think someone grows into a MB vet AND then uses that power for good of fellow man. Not that taking the MB experience that saved (or help dissolve) a marriage and never coming back here is bad. A vet on this site is in the ineviable position of knowing the pain on both side of the adultery pedullum and seeks to help others by showing them a preferred path.

They slap WS/BS until the fog clears or the anger lifts enough to see the forest thru the trees. And, in most cases a vet will plow right thru the most incalcitrant poster and make them see that their way is not going to work and destined for failure. Then, they advise, suggest, implore, cajole, influence, and if that doesnt work a big piece of lumber comes your way.

You can perhaps say its a mission from God.

I say helping the helpless for no gain financially is the greatest gift someone can give.

There are a couple dozen posters I consider are must reads no matter whos thread they are on. Their words, maybe tough to the uninitiated, are always dead-on accurate, prescient, and thought provoking.

I wonder how many hours of misery someone like Melody Lane has saved a struggling couple.

Keep in mind that most of us are not posting "I know what you are saying" either, because we don't. That is not what posters come here for. Posters come here to find out about Marriage Builders concepts and how to apply them. You don't have to have been through it to do that. You can always help, though, if you just teach others about Marriage Builders when they come here.

The thing about giving a new BS a 2x4 is that you feel bad for them, but if they don't wake up quickly, they lose what little bit of leverage they may have in their situations!

By nature I am a diplomatic person. I try to post things in a way that is empathetic but gets the message across. I believe in the ole "people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care" philosophy. However, I also worry about being too soft in my diplomacy that it won't hit home.

Of course, I have not posted as much on here as other places...and I think a harder stance is appreciated here because the vets know tough love works!

ME too! I was soo deep in BS fog and needed shaking! I feel for others who still feel gaslighted - but that wont stop me doing the necessary telling off!

Mel,
It's nice that you remembered me.

SS

Vet or no vet... not sure which.

I first read the book, "Surviving an Affair" and saw this website listed in the book. Right after D-day, I read several books and Dr. Harley's writings and approach were the only ones that made sense to me. I did a poor (average?) job in applying many concepts I had read. Some of it didn't sink in right away (I was not thinking clearly and am not even certain I was feeding the DS for a few weeks). Other times I could not figure out how to apply MB during a military deployment/separation. I certainly should have gone into Plan B at some point when it was apparent that H was not being open and honest. I had never heard of "gaslighting" before, let alone be able to identify it when it was happening to me by the one person I had previously trusted with my heart.

If it weren't for the posting here on this forum, I would never had recognized the contact that occurred in Nov 2009. And I would not have had the courage to handle that situation as firmly as I did.

My H and I are MB believers and think we would have divorced had it not been for MB. It is a well-defined approach, addresses all major issues, and gives the best framework for a couple to treat each other lovingly with care and respect. Certainly, MB does not need any additions from me. I try to stick closely to Dr. Harley's writings.

AM

I am familiar with all of Dr H's writings and I feel pretty confident on most aspects of theory...

Experience is something else though.

I havent done recovery, Never got to try POJA etc...

I was walking my sis through POJA today (she is becoming an MBer, yay!) and I could do it, but knew someone with experience would do it better...

Now if you want to know about the benefits of exposure and Plan B, I'm your gal

Nice to see you, my friend!!

You know I was teasing you ........ right?

Yeah, she knows.

I come by every once in a while. I wish I had more time to post. It looks like there is no shortage of those who need a helping hand and a kind word.

It is good to see all those who are helping. I believe there is a scripture about how it's a good thing to help others.

God Bless all of you.

SS

yeah, yeah you were stopping in for your annual cameo appearance! just kidding. It is always great to see you, SS! God Bless you too, friend.

Thanks ML and CV. I've learned much more than I've given back here, to be sure. And, that and that alone drives me to respond to posters here. Thanks.

I'll not to "defer" any longer, alright?

>>>she says now<<<<

you rock!! {{{{{{{{{{{{Surfer}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

p.s. a couple of fast ways to get up to speed are to listen to the radio show [it is very entertaining - and free] and be sure and read SAA. We could sure use the help! thanks!

Right back atcha, lady. I have listened to some (the latest you or Pep posted the link to), but wouldn't you know my company's VPN blocks MBs? Jackwagons.

I bought 1 SAA and 2 HNHN and gave away as gifts this summer. I have to get my own copies and not rely on this website's cliff's notes (which are awesome). I've read the Q and As a gazillion times, and killed at least 3 Redwoods printing for my family and me. LOL.

(((back at you))), Melody. I heart you big time, my friend.

Surfer, the book that was the most eye opening for me was Effective Marriage Counseling. If you ever get a chance to read that, please do. I got some amazing insight out of that book. Harley is much more direct and cuts to the chase in that book.

In it, he guides therapists right through the whole process in a strategic, methodical way. That helped me the most in understanding where to keep the focus.

For example, I never really understood that UA time is so critical to the success of this program that he even says in there "my program won't work without that step." When he was in active practice he would not take on a couple who would not commit to that step.

But those are the kinds of things you learn from that book. So, if you are going to get more than, please pick that one up. It was so helpful to me and others!

ML, never heard of it, and will order this week.

Interesting about UA time, and not to bore with my sitch, but...

I/We have employed the UA concept with what is already a close family. Kid is deployed in 4 days...and, on top of that is these 2 kids getting married tomorrow. Ugh. 9/07.

Anywhoo, you get my point. We are using MBs terms as a family (unbeknowst to them)...and I am so grateful for that.

Can't wait to get the book!

I am all over the place tonight. Sorry. Kid going to Afghanistan on Sat and getting married tommorrow at 19 years old. Ugh.

Ya'll are a mess.....

A Vet is the guy I take my dog to visit when he's sick......

He sticks a thermometer in his hiney and then sticks a needle in his neck. And then say's, "all better now"..... My dog doesn't even have to tell the vet whats wrong to get get that kind of red carpet treatment either.....

Come to think about it, I guess there are a few vet's around here afterall...

Baahahahahah!!

Oh wow! God Bless you and your kid! And congrats on the marriage.

shaddup, Papabear!!

Ditto to everything!!

I don't consider myself a "vet" but try to open their eyes.
Some BS sometimes don't want my 2x4s seeing my own sig and knowing that my M was not saved.
I can only tell them my mistakes and how their ending could be different.

Some of those who did not succeed (BHs) like he-who-should-not be-named-because-of-his-XW-who-used-MB-against-him (even if she IS friendly now) and Pariah, are also of a great help, or PSUBIKER even.

All of the above are different examples of how on a moment's notice things can go screwy.

He-who-should-not-be-named signed away his rights, with good intentions, but he did not win. He now knows way better, and has learned the hard way. He recovered, but it took LOTS of hard work.

Pariah...well, is someone I like to call on in cases when the OM is a serious danger to the BH.

PSUBIKER...is why BHs need to carry a VAR or recorder on their persons at all times.

All of the above are vets. We need to have them around more often so that the new BHs do not make any of the mistakes that the three above did.

Forgive me, Pariah, Psu, and HWSNBN. I hope I didn't offend you.

This is probably a t/j, but the names of the members it what gets me. You can tell the names say something about their situation.

The vets seem to have names that sound like success. I was biased in the beginning. I was scared to listen to some names. I read a name like, "My life is over ..." and then wonder about their situation, or you read a name like ... "So sad mama ..." and hope they can get their situation happy for the kids.

The vets seem to not have those names anymore. They have almost plutonic or happy names.

Surfer I always vision you in my mind as a "Hang 10 Surfer dude ..." When I read what you posts I have a vision of my cousin who lives in San Diego and loves to surf. I get imagines in my mind of what the person behind the name and probably label them that way. Schoolbus reminds me of a woman who loves kids, drove a bus for them at sometime, and really enjoyed that job. I take her stuff serious because she resonates with me due to my four kids.

hope, I would consider you a vet on this board. I have seen you help many people here over the years.

Sometimes divorce is the definition of success and those of you who have been through that can be enormously helpful to others.

Good points, karmasrose.

the beauty of the vets here is they make you think of things you can't think of yourself, when you are confused and doubting everything they are like a life line.
you come here and you suddenly have hope you didn't think you had,
I'm not a vet but I try to give that hope that with a good plan their lives can have a chance as well............
jessi,
p.s. thankful for MB

Jess, your approach is a little bit different. Ok, maybe you aren't posting and explaining citations, but what you do is important as well. You lend an ear and a kind word.

Some aren't so keen on that, some are.

I know this, however; when people arrive here, and as they struggle, they need that ear, those kind words. And this is the safest place that they can receive that. It's coming from clearer heads who will guide them toward their goal.

The conversations shared between people on this board could be disastrous without limited access and anonymity, because it takes a lot of vulnerability from posters. I would never talk to any woman IRL about the things that go on here. It's inviting calamity.

I love Jessi's posts...:)

HHH, you used a "triage" analogy earlier? Jessi is like the nurse that holds your hand in all the ER noise, helps hold you down and tells you calmly "OK, look at me. This is gonna hurt...a LOT".

Plus, we both like dot dot dots.

Itistoughlove,

I read this before I left for a few days, but had to respond. Names do give a first impression, don't they? People log in for so many different reasons, but usually not for the best day in their life, right?

Some change their names, too.

Levity?

You are dead on about me and "Surfer88"...except that I'm landlocked in the freezing midwest, terrified of the ocean, drive a massive and slightly beat up SUV with a Sawzall in the back at all times, and sit of 5 acres of corn fields. Other than that, dead on! Ha ha! Oops, and I'm not a dude. Haaaa!


FYI: in 2009 I pictured ML and Pep skipping down a path lined with daisies and holding hands.

FYI: in 2009 I pictured ML and Pep skipping down a path lined with daisies and holding hands.

It's probably an accurate picture, as long as you add the detail that in their other hands, they're dragging the battered carcass of a supposed MB'er who tried to "short circuit" the full program!

With 2x4's strapped to their backs! (JOKE! DON'T SWING PLEASE!)

Realized reading this thread tho that I'll probably never be a vet. Not because I don't understand or use the material, but because my posting style and personality limit me to certain types of postings. I realize that I probably only click with a very limited group that comes along.

But that's one of the neat things about the site. You don't have to be a vet to help and everybody contributes in their own way as best they can. It's neat seeing some of these marriages work, and that, to me, is the best reward ever!

CV

I would consider you a vet because you greatly contribute to others on the board. Like you said, you click with a limited group and are able to help where others can't get through. We need posters like you who take the time and calm down others. I sure don't have the ability to do that. But there are others like you, who do have that ability and they are invaluable to this forum.

And don't forget my big hair!!

That's OK CV, you can take my spot.
I limit my postings these days .... for personal reasons.
I need a wing-man.

(((Pepperband)))

CV, you are a mjaor resource to me, at least. Everyone is, honestly.

New people join, and those that need to move on do so, but the consistency never changes here.

NG,

You make me laugh!

You're a vet, CV.

cv you are a vet.

Some of you truly amaze me the way that you have picked up everything so fast. You may not have been here as long as others but you surely get it. IMO, an MB vet is based on merit as opposed to longevity. Some of you may not have been able to save your marriages, but you sure have saved yourselves. Then there are people like me, who arrive after it's all over, and who only wish they'd gone the MB route back then.

And some of you are hilarious!

Pep,

You better not go! You know you help everyone who is along the broad spectrum of recovery, right?

Surfer88: Thank you.

Dr. Harley's article describing a good counselor can give some tips on vet-like behavior:

How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor

So a good coach may be called on to do these three things:


In other words, they are the ones who "guide you through (1) emotional minefields, (2) motivational swamps and (3) creative wildernesses."

I'm sure some of us are better at some of these items than others. I've seen some problems though when some people thought only one of these was important.

I understand this article originated as a section in Dr. Harley's workbook, and I've seen that it's been reworded and included in his book Effective Marriage Counseling, addressed to the counselor. That book would be really good for anyone aspiring to "vet" status. Or perhaps we should say anyone who aspires to be good at coaching people in their marriages.

For that matter, they could also be useful to anyone trying to decide whose advice to listen to here.

Effective Marriage Counseling, p. 44

We have here the plan that works - Dr. Harley's. We can help people by motivating them to follow the plan. Of course, they can volunteer to follow the plan or skip it, and they can give up after starting. But if they aren't following it, the best thing we can do for them is to focus on that fact.

These articles might also be insightful:

What is Marriage Coaching?
The Coach (by Steve Harley, M.S., Dr. Harley's son)

Finally, in my opinion, nobody is a "vet" if they do not hold to the foundational positions of Marriage Builders:

Romantic Love: Is it a Realistic Goal for Marriage Therapy? (by Dr. Jennifer Chalmers, Dr. Harley's daughter)

Will you be my wing-man when I am not able to be here?

You got it. (says polishing his trusty new hardwood 2x4)

Cv

Ditto ramming WH with a pickemup truck. (I did not do this. Probably no one else has, either; it just strikes me as a bad idea.)

CLICK HERE: A Real Vet

Doormat_No_More is a Marriage Builders vet because he listens to Dr. Harley's radio show frequently:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164543&Number=2543398#Post2543398

As a result, he can write posts that sound exactly like what Dr. Harley might say:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164422&Number=2543592#Post2543592
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=164422&Number=2543598#Post2543598

I'm an unabashed DoNoMo fan! When I see he has posted, I tend to read his posts FIRST before I read anything else.

Bump.

Thank you to Marriage Builders vets, both old and new.

Where is Doormat_No_More?
Does anyone know?
He's another excellent poster that I used to follow.

No I don't, but I sure wish he'd come back!

I wonder if the terms evangelist and mentor are more apt descriptions?

Folks volunteer to preach to those who will hear and mentor those who would follow.

I am a little stuck on HHH saying:

Maybe one day I can follow... sadly, I am very gentle outside of text...

/shrug

Gentle is NOT a word I would use to describe you HHH! Inside of text, at least...

And ML, I doubt you have ever seen the movie The Incredibles, since it is a cartoon. In it, Elastagirl believes her H Mr. Incredible is having an A. At the moment she discovers her H has been lying to her for months about his job/whereabouts/etc. she is in the presence of Edna E. Mode, a very wiry, sassy seamstress. Elastagirl is lying on the floor sobbing...he's cheating...he's cheating... Edna picks her up, slaps her once, backhands her once, and says something along the lines of "snap out of it!, you need to remember that you are ELASTAGIRL, and it is time you remind Mr. Incredible of that too!" (or something like that I totally misquoted it...). Have always loved that Edna. She's one spunky lady. I have Edna in my mind whenever I read a post from you.

My take on who a vet is. As a newbie, when you see a 'vet' has posted on your thread, you feel honored, nervous because you know you will probably get your a$$ handed to you for something dumb you said (especially if you are stubborn and idiotic like I tend to be), and excited to hear what they have to say because you respect and value their opinion so much. All at the same time.

ditto to that.

Me too. I had the same take you did on him " he writes like what Dr. Harley might say".

Whoah !!.... does this mean that I am considered a vet? I am not sure about that.. but my marriage was turned around with MB principals and is FAR better than any of my previous years together.

*shrugs*

ANyhow .. I just wanted to post my thanks to the vets and for this great place.

MNG

My marriage ended thanks to MB principles. I am forever thankful for the guidance that led me to the Truth about my life which led to me filing for divorce and escaping a cheating husband. ****edit****....but I keep coming back to offer encouragement for those who I think I can help. I also wonder about those whose stories are still unfolding.

I love the vets! Can any of you vets come over to my post and give me the courage to expose to the BH of OW tonight? Please??

SW - I am grateful to so many here, you among them. I listen carefully to what you have to say since you've been through a similar situation to mine. I am curious to know what turns you off?

**edit** I am proud of you estrela for your strong response to your seriel cheating husband. You deserve much better than what he has to offer. I wish you peace in your pursuit of a new life.

What I have learned/what has changed since I posted that;

I have noticed that the posters I post to tend to be at a point where the posters I most admire have walked away because a person will not listen.

How did Mel develop a more gentle style? By refusing to post to people who drive her nuts.

I don't have the time I used to have; my work is different, and when I have time away from work, I spend time with my wife, with my kids, or I continue my studies (school and independent). Because of this, I only post to 3-5 people, with occasional nudges and nods to other folks I have followed.

Professionally, I am in an entirely different setting; that "gentle outside of text" was fitting when my job required very little of me as far as motivating my people to take care of themselves.

In the setting I work in now, my attitude is actually very, very close to what you see here. I can begin gently with some finger wagging, but it progresses. I was very stern with one woman a few weeks ago, and when she finally followed through on what I was telling her, her physician told her had she not got off her duff and done something about what was going on, she would have died. I know this because she told me, and then thanked me for "saving her life."

I didn't save her life. I simply told her if she didn't get off of her wide behind and do something for herself, that she would die. SHE had to decide to act.


I can and do play nicey-nice. Once habits start to develop to stop a marriage to bleeding out on the floor, I'll be someone's best bud. But while a marriage is bleeding, I wanna patch the stump.

The affair killers do their work, and I prefer mop-up. It's where I am the most comfortable.



So, if you want some nicey-nice, Unwritten, here it is - you are one of maybe 3 people I am following right now. I am following you because it looks like a lot of people have thrown their hand sup and walked away. And I will bang my head against the wall until either a) your marriage gets better or, b) you give up. And I do that because I believe that YOU can make your marriage better, when you cut the bull and do what you have to do to stop the LB$ hemorrhage. I don't want or feel I deserve any gratitude or accolades for doing so, I do so because I can.










(side note; BH - you've thanked me several times - you did the work, sister, but you're welcome)

I love that!!

Yes I did brother.

I remember one particular day I wasn't getting any responses and I came on here and was whining about my WH.

You came on and called me out straight away. "Wow how about all those DJs you dropped about your H?" You reminded me "your H isn't here, but you are. So how about getting to work?"

You made me look in the mirror. Which I needed.

I would not be where I am today - as a person or in my marriage - if it weren't for the vets here! I don't know if I could EVER express enough gratitude for that.

I think a progression does occur when you stick around to help others. You gain confidence with time and with going through more of the meat of the MB program. You also learn to spot details easier than in the beginning - of what really is going on in a situation. This is why it doesn't take paragraphs full of details for a vet to understand a poster. (Although, I know it is cathartic for the new poster to write them.)

The biggest thing is, sometimes people look to the longer term vets because they can see the credibility that is there. Nothing wrong with that!

My personal thing is, I try to get a good feeling for a poster and respond in a way that the information is good but also so that he or she will take it to heart and can implement it. Although, I am learning to be more bold than I used to be - when needed.

HHH,

I am honored. And I'm sorry for cussing you out under my breath after reading some of your posts...

But I'm feeling a little guilty from pulling one of the vets away from more worthy posters.

In the last two days I have done both, gotten ready to work on my M in a last ditch effort to giving up. Or something like that. So, the pain (as in, me as a pain in the a$$) should be over shortly one way or another.

I always weird out getting tossed in with all those other posters that I admire.



Anyway, I'm not being pulled anywhere. I choose who I follow.

I'll never forget the feeling of BS fog that filled me when I came here over a year ago.

I quickly felt the pressure of vets who knew EXACTLY how to bust me out of my comfort zone. Out of what I wanted to believe. Out of my long held blind trust of my husband. Complete strangers persuaded me to abandon my long held belief that snooping is wrong.

How? They asked intelligent questions. That I didn't have the answers to. They were relentless! They knew how to keep me coming back for more though. And they cared.

I am so, so grateful for that. To the point that I would not erase the A from history if I could. Because it changed me. I'm a tougher person today. I trust what I know. I have things in perspective. I don't make excuses for people. I don't choose to believe in kind assumptions. When I see warning signs, I pay attention.

I suppose what I'm saying is, an education from the vets is worth having. The 2x4s you get will shape you, make you think and will make the pain of the A worth having to become smarter, tougher and stronger.

Good for you! And you've shown your spine and commitment over and over. Your help to new posters here cannot be underestimated.

There are posters who have refused to look in the mirror and work on their side of the street. Their knowledge of MB is next to non-existent. They tend, instead, to navel-gaze and debate totally irrelevant nonsense, yak about their childhood, whine about their spouse (who, by the way, has probably never even heard of Marriage Builders because there is no communication between those spouses, other than communicating about their children.)They set themselves up for failure, and then cast about, looking for someone to blame.

Your honesty is refreshing.

Thanks MB. I had very good teachers.

When I first came here, I had read every Harley book I could find at my local bookstore. I read over the basic concepts from the website and I read the discussion boards.

I think Harley's program has gone through a remarkable evolution. Phone coaching was available and the Marriage Builder weekends, but not a lot of people here had taken them.

Now there's a radio show, the online program has also evolved into a much more effective program. There's over ten years of experience individually with a number of veteran mentors who post and share here regularly. and those vets who pick up the concepts quickly are ready and wililng to stay on the primary message and content.

No one starts out fully developed in their business model. Change must be par for the course. Harley has used the discussion boards to continue advancing his program and making it more effective, as he's had many people sharing their process and progress, ability to apply the principles, troubles applying principles, and adjusting to make the program much more effective for those coming onto the boards now.

So while the unstructured boards of the past definitely look and feel different, it was probably a necessary process to make the boards more effective at communicating the process of marital recovery now. Newbies benefit tremendously from Harley's willingness to keep paying attention and continue honing the message.

I remember when I spoke with W. Harley over 15 years ago, he laughed when I told him I very nearly tossed his book out the passenger window of the car while driving full speed down the interstate because of the first emotional need he addressed in the HNHN book. But he also mentioned a willingness to change the order of how he addressed EN in the next edition, so of the chapters to not create an obstacle for women to really get his message.

He demonstrated to me then that he wanted the message to reach and benefit the reader, and had no ego attached to how that happened. But he did have clarity about what he felt was the primary attack on marriage and went after addressing it.

I think Dr. Harley is a very bright man, an excellent marriage coach, and an amazing businessman!

I think the radio show was indispensable in the transition. Those of us who've heard him every day can testify how he's worked to make his message as approachable as possible (he used to revise His Needs, Her Needs every year, and he's revised the attractive spouse chapter radically, as that one was never very popular!) and how he retains that clarity about what works to help marriages and what doesn't.

Fortunately for many of the newer people here, Dr Harley caught onto the fact that his board was not being used for Marriage Builders at all. The old "structure" didn't work for anyone because they did not benefit from the intended purpose, which was to learn his program. Once Harley caught wind of the fact that MB was not taught here, it seems he took a more proactive and hands on approach and changed the direction of the board. It wasn't an issue of an undeveloped business model, but a realization that the board was not serving his intended purpose.

That was not a necessary process. Rather, it was a wasted opportunity to help people with their marriages when they came here for help. Some of us eventually were able to figure it out on our own and start helping others with this program. How many thousands of people lost out on that because others were using Dr Harley's forum to promote everything but Marriage Builders? I wonder about that....

While I agree that Dr Harley is an amazing psychologist and a brillant man, I wouldn't call him an amazing business man. I seriously doubt he even knows the term "business model" because he doesn't think like that. Who pays thousands of dollars for an internet forum year after year that doesn't even focus on his program? His personal driver is creating great marriages. That is what drives him. He gives almost everything away for free. A person can get free articles, questionaires, advice on the radio, free books for calling in. A person could completely transform their marriage for nothing by using the resources here.

I know about 5 people right now that he counsels for free and that is not counting all the callers to the radio he gives free counsel. [off the air] Heck, I think I have recieved a full set of books free by calling and writing the radio station over the years. He sends out free books to college professors and counselors so they will know about his program.

I chuckle when I hear people make the false - and scurrilous - assumption that Harley restricts his board to Marriage Builders in order to make money. What a load! If that were true, he wouldn't be giving everything away for FREE. He wouldn't have paid thousands of dollars for years hosting people [some very ungrateful and entitled] who substituted their own "sage" advice for his and made this a chat forum on his dime. He set this forum up for people who couldn't afford counseling or weekend seminars. That is what it is used for now. Anyone who listens to the radio station can hear the passion from him and Joyce and understand that what they want MOST is for people to have great marriages. That is his personal driver. And I hope he makes a crap load of money as a result!

Fortunately for my marriage, I got here after all of that crap got weeded out. I read older posts when I first came here, and they made no sense to me. They didn't jibe with the articles I was reading on the website.

I'm sorry for the older posters who were here and weren't able to recover their marriages with the help of the forums at that time