[color:"green"]I'm sure many of you have had experience with guests. I just finished visiting my sister for two days which coincidentally followed the visit of another sister with this sister.

Apparently my host sister had fed 20 people for a week AND cleaned up after them since they never offered to do dishes or help prepare a meal. Something she accepted because my other sister lives far away and visits so rarely.

I visited host sister with my BF, had a very enjoyable time, and tried to show my appreciation by buying host sister & family lunch at a very nice restaurant. Something which I usually do for anyone that hosts me.

I've talked in this forum before about BFs very strange habit of hosting his ex wife (BS) and her (OM) husband and most recently their children.

Last time they were here they actually invited people over to his house to visit with them after a funeral and then ordered food, had a meal, and escorted them to the door to wave them off as if it were their own home.

I had been asked by BF to come over and play hostess for this little soiree but felt as if I sat there with people talking around me rather than to me. (KWIM?) BF was actually on the periphery as well - it was certainly not an event that included either of us other than that it was at what BF calls "our" home.

He has asked me to consider his home "our" home at least when I'm there.

Now a mutual long time friend of BF and ex is getting married and ex is coming back to town. To stay at BFs house almost two weeks.

Additionally there was mention of a bachelor/bachelorette party being held at BFs house on the same day but a little early of his annual memorial day party.

Then there was talk by his ex of a bridal shower that could be at his house just a little earlier. (He said no way to that)

I suggested that we just change MDP to stbm couple's party and that we could host a party to celebrate their wedding. They met at BFs house and it would be really sweet and nostalgic.

He likes that idea but doesn't like the thought of paying for it all, even though he would normally pay for beer and snacks anyway.

But getting back to the reason for this post (whew!), I'm really tired of feeling uncomfortable because his ex is staying at his house.

He may have forgiven her, but I don't think I would ever be close to someone that I knew had hurt my BF or anyone I loved. I told him this. He said he considers her like a sister. I said she is not your relative and coming here puts strain on both of us. He thinks I would come over and act like a buffer, but I was honest with him and told him I would probably be more likely to be avoiding his house for her stay.

He said then he would get away from them at my house. I said no way - why would you possibly invite people over that you need to "get away" from? If you don't want them there then why invite them???? Or let them invite themselves.

He said that she has other relations in the area - she could stay with her mom or sisters. I said exactly. But she feels comfortable just moving in on you and you are nice and let her take advantage of you even if you would be miserable.

I then asked him if he would ever do that to someone else - drop in a couple of times a year to stay over a week and borrow vehicles and invite others over to socialize.

He said no of course not.

I said well then what do you think then of people that would do that to you?

I said let's plan a visit this year to california and we'll stay at ex's new house and borrow their cars and entertain at their house. There is lots to do there and the kids would love it!!!

I think I made my point he is going to tell her to stay with her other relatives.

Does anyone think I am wrong for nudging him to consider putting boundaries there?

V.[/color]

are you kidding me? that whole sitch is just wierd to me! mlhb

My thoughts, FWIW, is that it is not your job or even your right to tell him what his boundaries should be. That is slightly disrespectful.

However, I think he is not being thoughtful or sensitive to your feelings, and that is certainly cause for concern and discussion. I can see and understand your discomfort with him being so close with an exW. I don't care if he views her as a sister or a third cousin thrice removed - that is not the point.

The point is that he shared a life with her, and, more importantly, that house with her. So, no matter how you slice it, when she comes over and stays there for weeks, it naturally makes you feel like it is still her turf, and that you are the outsider. That no doubt feels icky, and I would hope that he can empathize with your feelings of discomfort.

So, overall, I think he can be chummy with his exW if you both agree to that (POJA, remember?), but I think he would be wise to understand why she should not be staying at his house. I find that highly disrespectful to you, his GF.

AGG

I like this; if (IF!) you cannot beat the 'enemy', join them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"]Well AGG, obviously I didn't really think I was trying to force him to have boundaries - only to prevent mine from being crossed (my discomfort with the ex being there).

I guess that I know that he just has too much difficulty saying no to almost anything.

And yes, he does say no to me - I hope that means he is more honest with me than with strangers.

My sister the host actually said almost the same thing that you did - that I need to ask him how he thinks that I feel when something like this goes down or to ask him to respect my feelings, or to explain how it makes me feel.

So I did.

Although we actually kind of hammered it out the night before, I told him that it was really hurtful to me to have to "visit" with him in the house that he shared previously with her while she was there making herself at home. That I hurt in a big way too because we miss each other so much now and I can't be at his house much and it's like she gets to take the spot I want.

I figure I'll never be friends with his ex, so I told to him to go ahead and tell her that I was uncomfortable.

He does admit that being so close to it all that he really never thought about it - but once he did think about it he could see how odd it all seems.

I personally don't find the idea of my man being so close to another woman to be a comfortable thing either. Isn't that how affairs start?

I read some survey online that said that 80% of folks that met an old flame ended up having an affair with the old flame.

Anyway - thanks to all that replied.

V. [/color]

sunny, uhh v., can i ask that you change the color of your type? my eyesight is bad and i am pretty sure i went from declining eyesight to needing lasik surgery after reading your posts over the past two days.

thx. plx

that being said i have enjoyed reading your stuff.

[color:"red"] Y [/color] [color:"green"] o [/color] [color:"purple"] u[/color] [color:"blue"] m [/color] [color:"orange"] e [/color] [color:"yellow"]a [/color] [color:"black"] n [/color] [color:"purple"] l [/color] [color:"pink"] i[/color] [color:"#666666"] k[/color] [color:"brown"] e [/color] [color:"red"] t [/color] [color:"blue"] h [/color] [color:"orange"] i[/color] [color:"purple"] s [/color] ?

the black is good, the orange isn't bad, the yellow i can live with, everything is hurts.

thx

[color:"orange"]OK, so what, time has passed. Apparently he composed but has not sent an email to the ex informing her that she cannot stay at his house for 2 weeks with her entourage.

I am thinking of sending him a reply:

BF, I hope you understand that if you get stuck with them that I will not be coming around your house until their visit is over. I will be protecting myself from stress.

I guess I am afraid that he is stalling and will send the email too late for her to find other accomodations.

I am used an ex who was very passive aggressive and would stall hoping that a delay would cause me to fold or forget or turn things more in his favor.

Not that BF would do this - it is more likely that he is afraid of any conflict that may arise because of him saying "no". [/color]

Please stay with black, orange is hard.

"BF, I hope you understand that if you get stuck with them that I will not be coming around your house until their visit is over. I will be protecting myself from stress. "

Too wishywashy to me.

BF, I understand that you have not yet sent the email we discussed regarding the housing arrangements for your X.
As we discussed, I am uncomfortable with the proposed arrangement, and to protect myself, I will not be visiting you should the current arrangements remain. I believed we had come to agreement that this arrangement was not in the best interest of either of us, and I feel you are not willing to honor our agreement.

If you choose to allow X to use your home, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would be more than happy to have you stay with me during this time period. (worth a try)

[color:"purple"]Newly,

If he wants to let that woman stay there then he deserves to have to put up with her being there.

Natural consequences are the best of all consequences.

He is quite willing to stay with me while ex is there.

Question to me is why would you let someone invade your home that unsettles you so that you have to leave and go somewhere else?

I would bet that if I lived there she would never ask him this. She is just taking advantage of him.

V.[/color]

We dont' know all the details. Perhaps he wants to play nice guy to her, or to her family. He may be doing her family a favor by letting her stay at his place, rather than theirs (is he friends with her family).
I dated someone who let their X & H/OM stay in his house, but she moved away, and that was the best way mom could see the kids since kids lived with him. (no kids in your BF's case though).

Life gets complicated. I have no time to date. Softball season may kill me.

[color:"purple"]Newly,

He hates being alone and has in the past done much to have people over his house.

He is not friends with most of her family. He minded less when it was her and OM/H but she has small children now and the visits are chaotic.

V. [/color]

Hmmm, I wouldn't send this. It sounds controlling, and you are treating him like a child by reminding him.

Assuming you have already made your feelings known to him, and assuming that you do not want to get into the pattern of nagging, then I think nothing more needs to be said to him.

He knows your feelings - let him show you how much your feelings mean to him. And if you say that this would be a hidden test, I would disagree - it's not like you are saying "if you love me you'll know what I want without me having to tell you"... You have told him what you want, the ball is now in his court. Don't remind him, or shove it down his throat. He's a man, not a child.

AGG

<shrug> Maybe he doesn't really mind it so much. Have you posed this question to him?

and it's up to HIM to put his foot down and enforce his own boundary.

Does he generally have issues enforcing boundaries? Does he always have to be the nice guy?

I personally think that it's very nice of him to be so open and accomodating (especially w/ the OM <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) and to remain friendly w/ his ex, but there should be reasonable limits. Do you find yourself losing a little respect for him Sunny b/c he allows this? Honestly?

As usual, I agree with AGG. You already told him you would avoid his house if he has those guests. It is still his decision to make, and he might not take your suggestion.

Last month you mentioned you weren't getting enough rest and weren't able to get things done at your house because you were spending so much time at BF's house. This would be a perfect opportunity to do those things if he does have these houseguests, in addition to showing that you meant what you said about avoiding his house if they are there.

[color:"purple"]BF felt so bad - ex started crying and carrying on because she would have to get a hotel room and there were ANIMALS at her sister's house.

BF was very very upset by the whole trauma of dealing with her upset. He tried to appease her by telling her that he couldn't handle the stress and it was different with her larger family than before when it was just her. She immediately said that she knew that he would never do this - it was completely out of character for him and that it had to be me. (Which is what I suggested he should have said in the first place - GF can't deal with exW being in "her" house.)

I'm upset.

I "caved" and opened the whole matter to POJA. Honestly, I don't even know if this should be a POJA situation. I feel like the woman has invaded "our" home.

Final negotion made me happier - he would open his house to her and he would come and stay with me. Then he said with the exception of the weekends when there is a party and wedding. (reason for her visit)

He tried to create for her an example with this elaborate scenario where she was in his situation, how would she feel. Situation involved real circumstance when they were dating. She said that she was a different person then.

Seems like she cannot comprehend how anyone else would feel, and if she ever did anything like this in the past she has changed now...

He admits that she is too comfy in that home. She goes into the master bedroom to leave cute things on his pillow or to grab (and not return) his hair dryer. He thinks that I should mark my territory by being there to greet them.

I said I already tried to mark my territory by outing them and he didn't let me do it.

I'm at a loss. It's either watch him be miserable with guilt or make myself miserable with resentment.

V.

AFS - BF is spending more time with me helping me with my children - it's better now. And I did reinforce with BF that there was no way that I was going to hang out at his house. I don't think he believes me. Every time we have a party I leave to go home and go to bed because his parties last too late for me. Every time I leave he is astounded when I go.

I told him his ex wasn't a guest - guests were people that you hung out with, entertained, fed, and enjoyed. He wanted to then have me treat them as guests. I said if I had invited them then I would treat them as my guests. If he wanted to invite folks without talking to me first, then don't expect me to cooperate and pretend I liked people when I don't. [/color]

Sunny, I think I can somewhat relate to what your BF is going through. I occasionally go through it with B. B used to ask me to do something or other unreasonable, given our non-relationship. I would agree even though I hated the idea because I was afraid of the battle that would ensue if I said no.

Because you are not a harridan, your BF is not afraid of causing you discomfort. At the same time, he is afraid of causing his X discomfort because she gets so nasty.

I’ve been forcing myself to step up to the plate and be more honest with my X. I now say “no” and even have refused to change my plans for X if my plans involve other people, especially my sweetie.

I think this is a great opportunity to see if your BF is developing the wisdom and strength that come from painful experiences. See if he maintains good boundaries during the stay, see if he stays at your house and keeps to his schedule. Creating and maintaining good boundaries doesn’t happen overnight, so I cut him a little slack. HOWEVER, I fully understand and value your reaction. I personally think it’s wacky he’s letting his ex-wife move into his home for two weeks.

I wonder if she knows he’s no longer her husband?

[color:"purple"]I think she is the sort of person who manipulates things to her advantage.

And that it has been a long time since BF was subject to her tantrums and whims but that he was "conditioned" to let her get her way.

If his mode is to choose the path of least resistence then I'm sorry. I said to him that I wanted this visit to be the last time and he looked surprised.

He said that he's sure she understands. I said I'm sure that I want it spelled out clearly and said out loud so that we know there is no question.

He thinks that her feelings are all hurt because she recently was rejected in the same exact way by an old friend who clearly had had enough of her visits. She probably felt doubly rejected said BF.

Ya think that there might be a REASON why people are telling her to take her vacations like most folks in a hotel??? She worked for an airline and gets really cheap tickets to fly and then would just stay with someone and take vacation for weeks and months since she only worked part-time.

V.[/color]

[color:"purple"]So I'm not getting many replies. I'm thinking that the opinion may be that I should stomp on BF and tell him the way the world runs in the REAL world.

Or I should take this down to the infidelity board and see if they think BF is still in some kind of fog when it comes to exWW...

Am I being schtoopid somehow?

See it's really hard to just dump a really nice guy for being nice to everyone.

V. [/color]

I was married to a woman like that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Master manipulator, the world revolved around her - and if I said "no" to any of her selfish demands, I was labeled (drumroll) - "selfish". So, I got used to going along with her demands and wants, and we all know where that led.

Still, the one thing I learned in my post-divorce alone time was that I was no longer subject to her whims and demands. The beauty of divorce (perhaps the only upside of it) is that you are no longer bound to the ex's demands. So, I learned to say "no". And it has been hugely liberating.

The reason I am telling you all this is because I am wondering if your BF has done the "homework" to get over the marriage and divorce, and to become a whole and independent person. If he has, the ex should not have any power over him, and no whining or b****ing should get to him - especially because they have no kids together. IMO, she should be way in the past for him, and not a regular presence in his life - especially when it comes at such a cost to him and his GF. I can definitely see why this bothers you so much, and I am somewhat concerned that he cannot get rid of this woman's presence - and "conflict avoidance" is not a good enough excuse, IMO.

What do you think?

AGG

Sorry, I don't buy the "he's so nice to everyone" rationale. "Nice", when used in this context, is a euphemism for "conflict avoider", "spineless", "boundary-less" (I made that one up), "putting ex-W's wishes above his GF's feelings" kind of guy.

Moreover, if he is nice to "everyone", does that mean that you fit in behind "everyone"? After all, you are not happy with him hosting his ex, he knows that, and he still does it. What does it tell you? I would think that a GF of 2 years should be a much higher priority to him than his ex, but it seems to me that he cares more about her feelings (wrath) than yours. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't see any other way to put this.

So, if you two were married, would he always be nice to "everyone" while putting you second? I am not asking rhetorically, because I was married to a woman who was nice to "everyone" - putting her family well behind friends, coworkers, volunteering, etc. I hated being "second" to all her other things that made her feel good but made me feel unimportant - so I am skeptical of "nice to everyone" people, especially when they put those who should be first behind "everyone".

AGG

I agree with AGG. He perhaps said it better than me. I’m not suggesting you break up with him. I’m just suggesting this is a good opportunity to see if he’s able to stop her manipulation. How has he grown? Will he be able to protect you against the effects of his being manipulated?

As far as him being nice, don’t let him get away with that. I used that as an excuse myself. I wanted to be nice. Outcome, I stressed myself out and often cheated those most dear to me by trying to be nice. Being nice also allowed me to stay in a destructive relationship much longer than was healthy.

I sometimes still feel guilty when I’m not nice, but it’s fleeting. The payoffs are great. And, my BF isn’t driven away by X’s maneuvers.

[color:"purple"]Yes, my ex was like this and I walked around on eggshells. Isn't that funny how they usually think that you are the one (and they are serious) doing something selfish because they are not getting their way?[/color]



[color:"purple"]Amen, brother. [/color]



[color:"purple"]I agree. [/color]



[color:"purple"]It is one of those slow burning things that builds.

I'm getting more angry instead of less angry.

I think for some odd reason he values this woman as a long time friend. He is very unusual when it comes to long time friends - he has friends going back 20+ years.

It still is no excuse though for how he is treating me. That is why I'm getting more angry - the more I think about it the more I realize that he values that relationship with her and doesn't want to give it up. That is what seems like fog-speak.

I think it is destructive to our relationship and he should let go of it for that reason. It was pretty clear to me that he was WAY surprised when I said never again that he never thought it would come to that.

V.[/color]

[color:"purple"]Yeah, that is kind of the way I'm feeling more and more. I'm so slow to react sometimes it takes me days to get really angry. [/color]



[color:"purple"]Tells me that he is so afraid of her having a fit that he will do anything to avoid it. Even though if he let her blow and just ducked it would blow by him - she should have no power over him now. [/color]


[color:"purple"] I think you are right. I think I was becoming motivated to try and ignore it because I didn't want to spoil the wedding for the bride and groom by having her have a fit and telling the bride. [/color]



[color:"purple"]I don't think he is like that although he does need a "push" now and again.

He just emailed me. I was busy today and didn't reply to some emails he sent more than a couple of words. He asked me if I was busy or upset. I told him both - and I was probably going to be unsettled for a while. He replied that he was going to call ex and tell her to stay somewhere else.

Goody. Now what do I do. I really hoped he cared this much about my feelings, but I also would feel bad if this spoils the wedding.

I think everyone knows what the ex is like and wouldn't say it was my fault for booting her out of BFs house.

V.[/color]

If he does follow through with telling her to stay somewhere else, thank him for putting your feelings above hers and tell him how much it means to you (make a big deal about it).

In your first post, the ideas of a bachelor/bachelorette parties and bridal shower seemed to be just ideas that were being tossed around - nothing concrete. Even if you and your BF want to host any or all of these parties, that has nothing to do with the Ex and her new family staying at his house - she can still be a guest at the parties, but with a hotel to go home to when the party is over.

How soon is the wedding? You won't be cause of "spoiling" the wedding! If it's soon, it's not your fault that they didn't make plans in advance. If it's some time from now, they still have plenty of time to find an alternate location for the parties (if you choose not to host them).

I agree with AFS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - acknowledge your BF's efforts to take your feelings into consideration, and let him know how much you appreciate it. But do not make the mistake of saying "but, if it's going to spoil the wedding, then don't do it", because that will send mixed messages.

Now, the ex-W may try to twist it into something like that, but don't buy that manipulation. It is normal and acceptable for a man to not let his ex-W live at his house (that's what the "ex" in the "ex-W" stands for), so there is nothing wrong with enforcing that boundary. It won't spoil the wedding - if anything will spoil the wedding, it will be the ex-W, if she chooses to throw a hissy fit. But, it sounds like she could use a dose of growing up, so maybe this is the right time to have her start.

More importantly, do you think your BF "gets" it, or is he feeling that you have now become a bigger nuisance than the ex-W, so he will pacify you this time around? I sure hope it's the former, but I suspect the latter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. What do you think?

AGG

[color:"purple"]Well I did tell him that I didn't want to spoil the wedding and that I hoped his ex wouldn't complain to the bride about her difficulties. [/color]


[color:"purple"]Yes - even BF admits the situation is odd and without my saying anything admits that any woman would feel the same as I do and that I'm not alone in feeling that way and also that I can't help what I feel. [/color]


[color:"purple"]I think he gets it and while I suspect that his first instinct is to pacify everyone, he knows that I'm struggling with the guilt of me also trying to play pacifist and swallowing my feelings.

I think the look on his face (surprise) when I suggested that this time would be the last time told me that he was initially trying to pacify me and that it would not change how he might fold under her pressure in the future. He's a guy that thinks on things, however, and after mulling it over I think he realized that it was causing us both a lot of agony and stress. Every time she comes into town she causes me stress and I think he is realizing that this is not going to change - that I'm not going to just suddenly start to feel like she is my best friend and look forward to her coming. I wonder if that is what he hoped would happen - that we would really hit it off?

Like I would really trust someone who cheated on her old fiance and then cheated on her new fiance and husband repeatedly. (One reason folks not to disregard a history of a WS - not that someone can't change, but that unless some personal growth has occurred, history repeats itself.)

There is also the "issue" of her kids being at the house during a party that might last until the wee hours. Personally I wouldn't want my kids to be subjected for hours to loud music and the (occasional) drunken adult stumbling around.

Thanks to all that replied. I'm trying to put this out of my mind and find some balance regardless of what he does.

V.[/color]

[color:"purple"]Thank you - he is really big on the EN for admiration and this is on target for what he would need. [/color]


[color:"purple"]We decided to host the party since many of the folks are complaining about the expense and we have the cash and it wouldn't be that much more money to make the party we were going to have anyway a little "more".

Since he is in the wedding party, hosting the B/B party is somewhat appropriate, but the shower? Someone who is up on Miss Manners step in - I thought wedding showers were more for the family of the bride to arrange or the gals in the wedding party. What is it all for, anyway? If the bride and groom live together and will be getting wedding gifts, what is the purpose of the shower? [/color]



[color:"purple"] I agree that it would be the ex that would spoil it for the bride if she chooses to complain. She might say that BF has changed - that he would never have closed his door to anyone for any reason and that I must have "forced" him to do this. In her world, I'm sure that putting pressure on someone until you get your way is standard. We all do that to some degree.

We did decide together to host the b/b party. Having her and her family at the house during the party is just additional stress. Most parties I like to cook things and the last time she was here her son was a whirlwind, running back and forth through the small kitchen without stopping. It would be more challenging to be working in the kitchen and worrying about burning or stepping on her son.

Maybe someone has a suggestion for giving a three year old something to entertain himself with for a few hours. :P

V.[/color]