I was married to a woman like that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Master manipulator, the world revolved around her - and if I said "no" to any of her selfish demands, I was labeled (drumroll) - "selfish". So, I got used to going along with her demands and wants, and we all know where that led.

Still, the one thing I learned in my post-divorce alone time was that I was no longer subject to her whims and demands. The beauty of divorce (perhaps the only upside of it) is that you are no longer bound to the ex's demands. So, I learned to say "no". And it has been hugely liberating.

The reason I am telling you all this is because I am wondering if your BF has done the "homework" to get over the marriage and divorce, and to become a whole and independent person. If he has, the ex should not have any power over him, and no whining or b****ing should get to him - especially because they have no kids together. IMO, she should be way in the past for him, and not a regular presence in his life - especially when it comes at such a cost to him and his GF. I can definitely see why this bothers you so much, and I am somewhat concerned that he cannot get rid of this woman's presence - and "conflict avoidance" is not a good enough excuse, IMO.

What do you think?

AGG

Sorry, I don't buy the "he's so nice to everyone" rationale. "Nice", when used in this context, is a euphemism for "conflict avoider", "spineless", "boundary-less" (I made that one up), "putting ex-W's wishes above his GF's feelings" kind of guy.

Moreover, if he is nice to "everyone", does that mean that you fit in behind "everyone"? After all, you are not happy with him hosting his ex, he knows that, and he still does it. What does it tell you? I would think that a GF of 2 years should be a much higher priority to him than his ex, but it seems to me that he cares more about her feelings (wrath) than yours. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but I don't see any other way to put this.

So, if you two were married, would he always be nice to "everyone" while putting you second? I am not asking rhetorically, because I was married to a woman who was nice to "everyone" - putting her family well behind friends, coworkers, volunteering, etc. I hated being "second" to all her other things that made her feel good but made me feel unimportant - so I am skeptical of "nice to everyone" people, especially when they put those who should be first behind "everyone".

AGG

I agree with AGG. He perhaps said it better than me. I’m not suggesting you break up with him. I’m just suggesting this is a good opportunity to see if he’s able to stop her manipulation. How has he grown? Will he be able to protect you against the effects of his being manipulated?

As far as him being nice, don’t let him get away with that. I used that as an excuse myself. I wanted to be nice. Outcome, I stressed myself out and often cheated those most dear to me by trying to be nice. Being nice also allowed me to stay in a destructive relationship much longer than was healthy.

I sometimes still feel guilty when I’m not nice, but it’s fleeting. The payoffs are great. And, my BF isn’t driven away by X’s maneuvers.

[color:"purple"]Yes, my ex was like this and I walked around on eggshells. Isn't that funny how they usually think that you are the one (and they are serious) doing something selfish because they are not getting their way?[/color]



[color:"purple"]Amen, brother. [/color]



[color:"purple"]I agree. [/color]



[color:"purple"]It is one of those slow burning things that builds.

I'm getting more angry instead of less angry.

I think for some odd reason he values this woman as a long time friend. He is very unusual when it comes to long time friends - he has friends going back 20+ years.

It still is no excuse though for how he is treating me. That is why I'm getting more angry - the more I think about it the more I realize that he values that relationship with her and doesn't want to give it up. That is what seems like fog-speak.

I think it is destructive to our relationship and he should let go of it for that reason. It was pretty clear to me that he was WAY surprised when I said never again that he never thought it would come to that.

V.[/color]

[color:"purple"]Yeah, that is kind of the way I'm feeling more and more. I'm so slow to react sometimes it takes me days to get really angry. [/color]



[color:"purple"]Tells me that he is so afraid of her having a fit that he will do anything to avoid it. Even though if he let her blow and just ducked it would blow by him - she should have no power over him now. [/color]


[color:"purple"] I think you are right. I think I was becoming motivated to try and ignore it because I didn't want to spoil the wedding for the bride and groom by having her have a fit and telling the bride. [/color]



[color:"purple"]I don't think he is like that although he does need a "push" now and again.

He just emailed me. I was busy today and didn't reply to some emails he sent more than a couple of words. He asked me if I was busy or upset. I told him both - and I was probably going to be unsettled for a while. He replied that he was going to call ex and tell her to stay somewhere else.

Goody. Now what do I do. I really hoped he cared this much about my feelings, but I also would feel bad if this spoils the wedding.

I think everyone knows what the ex is like and wouldn't say it was my fault for booting her out of BFs house.

V.[/color]

If he does follow through with telling her to stay somewhere else, thank him for putting your feelings above hers and tell him how much it means to you (make a big deal about it).

In your first post, the ideas of a bachelor/bachelorette parties and bridal shower seemed to be just ideas that were being tossed around - nothing concrete. Even if you and your BF want to host any or all of these parties, that has nothing to do with the Ex and her new family staying at his house - she can still be a guest at the parties, but with a hotel to go home to when the party is over.

How soon is the wedding? You won't be cause of "spoiling" the wedding! If it's soon, it's not your fault that they didn't make plans in advance. If it's some time from now, they still have plenty of time to find an alternate location for the parties (if you choose not to host them).

I agree with AFS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> - acknowledge your BF's efforts to take your feelings into consideration, and let him know how much you appreciate it. But do not make the mistake of saying "but, if it's going to spoil the wedding, then don't do it", because that will send mixed messages.

Now, the ex-W may try to twist it into something like that, but don't buy that manipulation. It is normal and acceptable for a man to not let his ex-W live at his house (that's what the "ex" in the "ex-W" stands for), so there is nothing wrong with enforcing that boundary. It won't spoil the wedding - if anything will spoil the wedding, it will be the ex-W, if she chooses to throw a hissy fit. But, it sounds like she could use a dose of growing up, so maybe this is the right time to have her start.

More importantly, do you think your BF "gets" it, or is he feeling that you have now become a bigger nuisance than the ex-W, so he will pacify you this time around? I sure hope it's the former, but I suspect the latter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. What do you think?

AGG

[color:"purple"]Well I did tell him that I didn't want to spoil the wedding and that I hoped his ex wouldn't complain to the bride about her difficulties. [/color]


[color:"purple"]Yes - even BF admits the situation is odd and without my saying anything admits that any woman would feel the same as I do and that I'm not alone in feeling that way and also that I can't help what I feel. [/color]


[color:"purple"]I think he gets it and while I suspect that his first instinct is to pacify everyone, he knows that I'm struggling with the guilt of me also trying to play pacifist and swallowing my feelings.

I think the look on his face (surprise) when I suggested that this time would be the last time told me that he was initially trying to pacify me and that it would not change how he might fold under her pressure in the future. He's a guy that thinks on things, however, and after mulling it over I think he realized that it was causing us both a lot of agony and stress. Every time she comes into town she causes me stress and I think he is realizing that this is not going to change - that I'm not going to just suddenly start to feel like she is my best friend and look forward to her coming. I wonder if that is what he hoped would happen - that we would really hit it off?

Like I would really trust someone who cheated on her old fiance and then cheated on her new fiance and husband repeatedly. (One reason folks not to disregard a history of a WS - not that someone can't change, but that unless some personal growth has occurred, history repeats itself.)

There is also the "issue" of her kids being at the house during a party that might last until the wee hours. Personally I wouldn't want my kids to be subjected for hours to loud music and the (occasional) drunken adult stumbling around.

Thanks to all that replied. I'm trying to put this out of my mind and find some balance regardless of what he does.

V.[/color]

[color:"purple"]Thank you - he is really big on the EN for admiration and this is on target for what he would need. [/color]


[color:"purple"]We decided to host the party since many of the folks are complaining about the expense and we have the cash and it wouldn't be that much more money to make the party we were going to have anyway a little "more".

Since he is in the wedding party, hosting the B/B party is somewhat appropriate, but the shower? Someone who is up on Miss Manners step in - I thought wedding showers were more for the family of the bride to arrange or the gals in the wedding party. What is it all for, anyway? If the bride and groom live together and will be getting wedding gifts, what is the purpose of the shower? [/color]



[color:"purple"] I agree that it would be the ex that would spoil it for the bride if she chooses to complain. She might say that BF has changed - that he would never have closed his door to anyone for any reason and that I must have "forced" him to do this. In her world, I'm sure that putting pressure on someone until you get your way is standard. We all do that to some degree.

We did decide together to host the b/b party. Having her and her family at the house during the party is just additional stress. Most parties I like to cook things and the last time she was here her son was a whirlwind, running back and forth through the small kitchen without stopping. It would be more challenging to be working in the kitchen and worrying about burning or stepping on her son.

Maybe someone has a suggestion for giving a three year old something to entertain himself with for a few hours. :P

V.[/color]