I started talking with a guy 2 weeks ago last night. We've been on two dates. Up until the last date (Fri. night), he called and texted me several times a day. Sat. he texted me some and called me Sat. night (he didn't get up until 1:30 - hahaha late night and then he went to the grocery store and did housework). Sunday he called Sunday night (he went to church I think and then to the river). He called last night (he left his charger at work so his phone was dead, he cleaned his boat, and he went to his Mom's for supper). He's slowed down on the contact during the day but it all seems legit you know?

We talked some Fri. night about us. First thing was that I asked him how he felt about dating other people (if you remember my crush thread, that guy is still contacting me somewhat but I'm not interested any more because it's all on his terms). We had been sitting close together and he got away from me as fast as he could when I asked that question. He said if that's what you want, fine, but I thought we were exploring one another. I said we are, I just wanted to know how YOU felt about it. Then I told him about my guy friend that has been dating a girl for a year but they are still open to date other people. I told him I didn't understand that and wanted to know where he stood on it. He was OK with the situation after I explained it. We've pretty much figured out that neither of us want to date other ppl.

Then, as we were talking later on (we talk a lot but there is plenty of physical attraction ;-) ), I asked him would he be OK with dating for a long time (didn't mention marriage, just left it like that). I think he said he would be OK with it. Then later on, he brought it up again and said it scared him for me to say that because it sounded like I wasn't ready for a relationship and he was (he's been divorced 10 years). He said he was afraid I would string him along if I wasn't ready. I told him I would never do anything to hurt him. He said I just needed to be SURE I was ready for a relationship.

Then, after that talk he got ready to leave. I'm a worrier so while we were saying our goodbyes, I told him I was worried about the conversation we had. He decided not to leave right then. I asked him what changed his mind. He said me worrying about the situation increased his trust (or something like that).

But like I said, not as much contact as we had previously. He was texting me with hey beautiful, wyd. Now it's most of the time, hey you, wyd. I asked him Sat. night (on the phone) if he was backing off because of our relationship talk. He said, no. I've been communicating with you. I said, it just seems different. He told me not to read between the lines because I'd read something that wasn't there.

I really like him. I'm pretty sure he's really into me. I just don't want to get hurt or be stupid. I can't figure out why he's backed off some. One thing I really like about him is the contact he began with. I'm a worrier. I analyze everything. I thought he could be guarding his heart because of the relationship conversation. Or he could think that we are now exclusive so he knows I will be there and we don't need to communicate quite as much?

Any ideas?

Personally, I think two dates and two weeks is not enough time to get into relationship talk like that. I know that the pace quickens somewhat as we get older, but it just strikes me as way too early. I wouldn't get into a discussion like that for at least a month or two.

Keep it light and fun, and don't mention the conversation again unless he does. Try not to over-analyze his texts either.

Have you read this?
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders

I've got it marked to read.

The book is even better, but Pep put that excellent thread together.

Dr. Harley recommends it for people whom are dating.

Have you read the article where he recommends to date 30 people?

Yeah. I'm not into dating 30 people. I just can't see the sense in that. Sorry. I know a lot of ya'll believe in it. I don't know 30 people that I would consider dating. I'm picky. So far, I've only been interested in three guys (my crush, this guy that this post is about, and a guy that doesn't really know I exsist).

Besides, it's not like my door is getting knocked down. I don't plan on putting myself out there just so I can date 30 guys. A lot of ppl still don't even realize I'm divorced yet. I had a guy the other day tell me he asked someone about why my husband hadn't been around and they were like, she's divorced. He said his mouth dropped to the floor. I want God to send me the right person. My problem is knowing if it's God or not. I just can't hurt any more. I know it's a risk we all take, but I think I'd rather not have the need for a relationship if I'm going to hurt.

So what kind of things are you doing for yourself? Start any new hobbies?

Probably nothing. I enjoy piddling around the house. I have a full-time job as well as an online job that keeps me busy. I start Divorce Care classes next month. I'm hoping that helps me.

Hi Prissanna, just want to second the recommendation by Brainhurts to read the book Buyers, Renters & Freeloaders. I started reading it last week, and it's very good.

I'm also with you on the dating 30 people advice. I think it's great advice for younger people, say in their teens and 20's, but I think as you get older, you know more about yourself and what you want and don't need to date as much to figure it out.

Get BRF, you'll be happy you did.

I think the biggest reason for dating different people is that Dr. H says to get that contrast effect to find the right one. When you're older 30 is a stretch but date multiple people.

Have you thought about trying something new to get you interested in? After my divorce I started doing stuff I never would've when I was married and had tons of fun and met new people with similar interests.

The most difficult was adjusting when the kids aren't there, but I enjoyed my down time. How's your support system? Girlfriends and sisters?

Can someone give me a synopsis of the BRF to let me know how it would be useful. I read the thread and was a little confused (not even blonde. lol).

I have a great support system. At the beginning of my divorce, I shut pretty much everyone out. Then in Jan. when my first 'crush' came on me with a vengeance, I realized I needed my friends.

My personality is obsessive. No patience. (Took after my Dad) That's NOT a good thing. How do I work on this? How can I tone it down? I don't want to freak this guy. My thing is, I'd rather know that he's not interested (if he's not, than sit around wondering if he is backing off). To me, communication is vital.

We've been very up front with each other. Even though he brought up the relationship question, I'm getting the idea now that he doesn't want to 'talk' about anything like that. I haven't tried to talk about it, it's just that he doesn't so that's where I'm getting the idea from. I do have the 'need' to talk about it but I'm letting him lead the way. We generally talk about what happened during the day, and stuff like that. He'll ask how my day was, I'll ask how his was. I take it most guys don't want to talk relationship stuff?

Oh, and I ordered the book. ;-) Figured if ya'll recommended it, it had to be good. Ya'll have been SO helpful to me since January.

I don't know, prissanna, texting "hey you wyd" doesn't really sound like that much fun. I think as you spend more time together in person instead of mostly texting it will get really obvious how you two feel about one another. Have fun

Hi Prissanna, glad you ordered the book. I was going to try to give you a synopsis of what I've read so far, but since you ordered it, no need. I can say at this point though, I wish I had read stuff like this a long time ago.

I've been perplexed by POJA ever since I first read about it. BRF has given me glimpses of how it works and has promised more explanation to come, later in the book, which I'm anxiously waiting to get to. My problem is I usually read at night when I go to bed, and most nights it's a struggle to keep my eyeballs open after a couple of pages.

It's funny (not haha) that you think most guys don't like to talk relationship stuff. You might be right, but I love it! I've come to the conclusion recently that romantic relationships are the most complicated things in the universe; even compared to nuclear physics, brain surgery, black holes, you name it. I happen to like complexity, however, and learning about relationships is fascinating. I think Dr. Harley wrote in BRF that having a fulfilling lifetime relationship is one of life's greatest achievements, and I agree.

I read a Psychology Today article on marriage within the last year that said something like (don't quote me on this, this is from memory) "marriage is not about finding the right person, it's about becoming the right person." I'm looking at relationship books such as BRF to learn how to be a better relationship partner. When I hopefully meet "the one," I want to already know how to be a good relationship partner; I don't want to be learning it on the fly.

The 30 people advice is not 30 people at ONCE, its 30 people you have dated in total before you settle on one to marry.

Though Dr H says if you date 30 people in a year, you will find your ideal match. However if you're older and have dated some, you can scale down the number as long as you still have contrast effect.

I don't think anyone should be behaving like a buyer, and talking exclusivity and long term commitment after two weeks.

This prevents you from comparing and contrasting with other dates. You wouldn't buy a house after seeing just one, would you?

Dr Hs B,R and FL approach encourages you to be a freeloader early on and choose someone easy to be around, shopping around fully for that right someone. Then you upgrade to a renter and a buyer mentality only comes in when you are ready to discuss marriage.

A lot of people try to be a buyer first, focusing all that attention on just one candidate. Which makes them obssess, naturally. They of course plan to bail on the relationship later if it doesn't work out. Which involves downgrading from buyer, renter to freeloader.

Downgrading is bad. Upgrading is better. You should start with freeloader and let the relationship work its way up to buyer.

You have the choice of the relationship being casual now - or casual later.

Its best to start casual and build up - rather than start serious and break it down.

And then a lot of time has been wasted with no other candidates or lovebanks worked on if it was exclusive the entire time.

Using MB terms, you should freeload in the dating phase.
However Dr Harley does recommend several months before dating after divorce.

Thanks ya'll! The BRF is now making more sense to me! I know I've still got a good bit of healing to do and that will take time. I'm learning and growing daily.

That depends actually. If I had owned homes in the past, if I got an inspection, if I was in a super hot market, and the price was right I might very well not need to see any others.

I've been thinking about the comparison between shopping for an important item, such as a home, and shopping for a relationship partner. I think the need to shop around differs from person to person. Those who want the contrast effect support the position that you should have plenty (30 per Dr. Harley) of dating experiences so that you can compare and know that you're getting the best relationship partner. I think one reason some people need this is, they don't know exactly what they want, and seeing lots of options helps them define what they want.

Other people can shop very little and make a decision quickly. For instance, in the house example, when my xW and I were house hunting, we met with a realtor, give her our price range and a rough idea of what we were looking for, and she showed us around. After the first half a day, I was ready to make a decision; the best of the houses we had seen was perfectly fine with me. My xW on the other hand, wanted to continue shopping, and we spent 5 more days looking for a house. We ended up choosing one that we had found during the first day of shopping, but she needed the assurance that we had shopped around sufficiently.

I think the reason some people don't need to shop as much for a relationship partner (or a home) is because they know what they want, and they may find it well before dating 30 or so people.

HDW pointed out the advice to wait several months after divorce before dating, and I think I've seen recommendations as much as 2 years after. The point is that too soon after divorce, and your perception of what you want may be skewed by neediness. I think one of the benefits of allowing divorce recovery to occur before dating is so that "what you believe you want" is what you really want.

To know this you would have had to shop and investigate. Either online, in the newspapers etc. If you've been out of the market for a while,and ignoring what else is out there you can only discover the prices and state of the market one way - by shopping in some form.

Now you don't necessarily have to do viewings (dates). You COULD just windowshop and see what you like for sale as you drive around (windowshopping for men is the same as any other kind!)

But obviously actual viewings AND windowshopping is the most efficient plan.

I think the important thing is the freeloader 'shop around' attitude.

As long as the person isn't diving headfirst after divorce into an exclusive 'let's pretend to be a buyer but bail later' relationship.

Not really. If this were the case Dr H would simply get them to define what they want. He would recommend people list their top ENS like a shopping list and marry the person who satisfies that shopping list.

I know exactly what I want. But I couldn't possibly know what is out there and in which varied and wonderful forms!

Using the 'be exclusive' approach, Person A with a high need for RC could decide to marry the first person who meets the other nine needs in an effective way and for RC they DO have fun. Fun more than once on a date doing something they kind of like, which the date agreed to because it was suggested.

That would be more than enough to cross the threshold of romantic love. Particularly without the contrast effect.

But the next date in line could have all the same needs attributes but additionally they are passionate about Person As most favourite type of RC.

The second date is by far the better candidate for marriage. They would find it far easier to enthusiastically make larger LB deposits throughout the marriage.

The contrast effect is not for people who don't know what they want.

It is to prevent feelings of love developing at an early stage.

We shouldn't be falling in love with people while still getting to know them. To know their problems.

The contrast effect is terrible in marriages because it prevents us feeling in love.

But it is excellent while making a level headed, logical choice about who is a good person for marriage.

The love bank mounts up more slowly, we make a wiser choice than we would if already in love with the first dating choice. We then choose to fall deeper by moving on to the next stage.

That's why he recommends it for everybody. If he didn't he wouldnt say it is for everybody.

This can happen while dating too. Dr H and Joyce dated each other first. They dated others then returned to each other. With the assurance they were far better matched than anything else out there.

Like you, I don't really need that assurance. I'm a confident, laid back person who is happy with whatever makes me happy. I'm great at making quick decisions. I married my first love and was very happy pre-A.

But I'm going with Dr H on this one. I don't need the assurance of most types of insurance either. I'm not an anxious person and I don't worry about 'what if'. That's my weakness. I should start doing what's logical, instead of only doing just what I feel like.

Hi Indiegirl, you bring up some interesting points.

This is interesting because I previously thought the reason for the contrast effect was the comparison of dating partners to choose the best one. Can you please explain a bit more why the contrast effect is to prevent feelings of love developing?

If you're on a date with someone, having a good time, enjoying conversation, it's pretty hard to prevent deposits from being made. Are you suggesting that you purposely close your Love Bank while dating? That seems to go against human nature because who doesn't enjoy Love Bank deposits?

I must be missing your point. It seems that the contrast effect would be good in marriages. If I've done my homework and dated 30 people prior to marriage, then in contrast to everyone else, I chose my wife because she was the best. Maybe your explanation of why the contrast effect prevents feelings of love will help me understand what you mean.

I don't know whether I'm the normal case or not, but I like the feeling of a growing Love Bank account. I see your point, however, in the benefit of slowing the growth. This is a new concept for me, and I imagine trying it will be difficult. It seems that there will be inner tension between my heart, desiring a full Love Bank, and my head, wanting to make a wise decision.

Thanks for your words, Indiegirl. Very thought provoking!

Oh yes, a full lovebank is VERY enjoyable!!!

But it isn't smart. We have to do the workout before sitting down to the feast. Jumping straight into the intimacy of a relationship without doing the work is initially satisfying and wonderful, but it is short term.

The contrast effect takes our attention away from singlemindedly falling in love with one person. A married man who sees strippers every weekend will be less thrilled by the sight of his wife in lingerie, than if that was a special, exclusive thing.

It will still deposit LB units, but not as many.


As well as preventing us falling deeply in love, it offers us a choice and wide spectrum. Again terrible for marriages but good for dating.

It IS hard. But its also fun to date around. I would say, right now KL you are in withdrawal from your relationship and want another sugar hit somewhere else.

I would say to all post-D daters, wait it out, heal on your own and only try dating when you feel secure and happy, and you'll do fine, if you begin as a freeloader and with the contrast effect.

Hi Indiegirl, thanks again for your thoughts. Your suggestion to date when I feel secure and happy reminds me of a related question I asked on another thread, which might have been overlooked amidst other posts.

How do you know that you're healed and don't feel needy at all?

The reason I ask that is, when I first started dating my xGF, I didn't feel needy at all. Now, almost 3 years later, I can look back and see that I was indeed needy, but at the time, I didn't feel needy; in other words, my feelings deceived me. I don't feel needy now, but maybe 3 years from now, I'll look back and see that I was.

What indicators do you rely on to know with confidence that you are truly healed and not needy? Or, in the context of your most recent reply, how do you know that your feeling secure and happy is true and that your feelings are not deceiving you?

BTW, Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders is on Amazon and you can read random pages to get an idea what the book is about. I did and then ordered it.