We will have been married 7 years this Dec. Together almost 10.
2nd marriage for both us. He has two grown boys. I never had children. I'm 47, He's 50
I follow and practice Dr. Harley's principles.I work the program as best I can. I love MB! Hub does know of MB but doesn't cognitively work the program.
We love each other deeply. We spend all of our time with each other when not at work. He's my best friend and I am his. We rarely fight.I'm outgoing, he's more reserved and introverted. I just found out that he was sexually abused twice. His Jealousy, mistrust, obsessiveness and inability to rationalize are starting to break me down. I have kept a mental log. These episodes happen 4 to 6 times a year. I say to myself "he's having a spell". This behavior began to manifest in 08. Although looking back in courtship, he is quite insecure (admittedly so) I'm real close to checking out, but would rather fight for our marriage and work through this.
I need some confirmation...my self doubt has crept in...there is something wrong with my precious husband. It's sick to me, it's a deep rooted issue...sigh. I will post more on this when I have more time. Thanks for reading. I'll be back as soon as I can.
Hi, JU2,
Can you elaborate on what his "spells" are like? What specific behavior do you see during these times?
Who is he jealous of? The first solution would be to follow Dr. Harley's Policy of Joint Agreement, which would be that if there is anyone in your life that you have contact with that he is not ENTHUSIASTIC about, you eliminate it. That would include specific people, as well as specific types of contact (for example, going to lunch alone with a male coworker).
Dr. Harley's position is that if you carve out any area of life that is an exception to this policy, then that area has the potential to doom your marriage.
Jealousy, mistrust and obsessiveness (I am assuming with jealousy and mistrust, correct me if I'm wrong) are fairly simple to alleviate by being open and accessible, honest and caring.
How did his marriage with his ex end? Did you know each other while married to your former spouses? How did yours end? Was there any infidelity involved in the demise of those marriages?
The "Inability to rationalize" comment is what concerns me the most in your post, along with "I need some confirmation...my self doubt has crept in...there is something wrong with my precious husband." What do you mean by inability to rationalize? He is unable to explain or justify his behavior? Or unable to accept your explanations and justifications?
As for the second sentence quoted, no, we will not confirm that there is something wrong with your husband.
I can tell you this, most people who come here complaining of their spouse's jealousy and mistrust are actively cheating on and/or lying to their spouse. Are you doing that? Do you have a friend at work who he is concerned about or jealous of?
thanks for the replies.
Firstly, I have never had anything to hide, he's always had access to my emails, facebook, phone. There has been no infidelity on either side. His accounts are also available to me anytime.
When we were dating...he'd had just extricated himself from his girlfriend of 7 years...or so he told me. I cut off all contact with my guy friends which he'd asked me to and I have remained cut off. If we we're out in a social setting and if we are out in social setting he gets upset if I have a conversation with or talk to any male. I keep photo albums...free for anyone to look through. There was a picture of a male friend in my album (h and I had been seeing each other 5 months)I went and played golf with this male friend and others. He came across the photos in 08 and relentlessly accused me of stepping out on him when we were dating. For a month, he grilled me...he was obsessed and irrational with the pics. This last episode was a home porn flick. He accused me of being the girl in the video being taken by two black men. I have never in my life. He found a longer version and the chick had a tatoo and a belly button ring. He just gets things in his head and they just spiral out of control with his imagination. I gotta run...I'd like to keep my thread to myself...and he's just home.
So he watches porn? Or was this in your collection?
I gotta run...I'd like to keep my thread to myself...and he's just home.
So...
Firstly, I have never had anything to hide
isn't exactly true, eh?
If we we're out in a social setting and if we are out in social setting he gets upset if I have a conversation with or talk to any male.
What specifically does he want you to change about the way you talk to other males? Like if you are at a restaurant, does he get upset if you talk to a male waiter?
I don't look at porn. H has admitted that he has a porn problem/addiction. He told me he was looking for videos where the female looks like me. It makes him in an uproar to think of me as being the person in video, but excites him just the same. My thoughts were that it takes a lot of surfing to find this one where the woman looked very much like me. Too work himself up so bad as to accuse me of being that person and to think I was lieing about the video. How can I lie about something that never happened. He found a longer video that proved it was NOT me.
This is my place CWMI for now. He knows about this website. But I don't want him on my thread right now...if he chose to come here, I'd gladly steer him over here to start his own thread. But for now, I need this place for my eyes only.
Markos, example: when we were first dating, we were in a eatery/bar having a couple burgers during the day...we were at the bar eating and there were other people around. There was a fella at the bar who was foreign and I'd asked him where he was from. Just small talk. I didn't know that I'd upset my man until we got home. He said I disrespected him and that he didn't want his girlfriend talking to another guy. I have seriously altered my outgoing personality in social settings. He has to have my undivided attention. He had a couple coworkers at the house a few evening ago. I cooked steaks, boys played pool inside, I played a couple games. I went outside and one of the coworkers came out to have a smoke and we sat outside and talked for a good 45 minutes. This infuriated my husband. I did nothing wrong. But my H has a insecurity issue that is taking it's toll on our marriage. I walk on eggshells I feel. I don't know what will make him go "spelly" on me. I do know...it's having any kind of conversation with another man...MINUS a Waiter
I'm going to start my individual therapy...I need this to know that I'm not the cause of his insecurities. I meet no strangers, I told my husband when we were first dating that it took a secure man to be with me. I talk to women, children,animals. I was in outside sales all my life. I like people! He's not social. But we complimented each other...I draw him out and he pulls me in. If that makes any sense.
I'm very perplexed
Markos,
To attempt to explain "spells". His ability to rationalize are none existent when he goes into a manic episode. I use manic episode for lack of better terminology. When accusing me of making a porn video he said that he could just move on with me if I would tell him the truth. I told him, in knowing that we could move on in my telling him the truth...why would I continue to deny this video...I can't be dishonest if something never happened. ughhhh, the worst part is that I did look at the video for a few minutes and the woman did look like me. I'm now scratching my head thinking that looks like me. What if I was given some drug in my drink and this happened and I have no recall. But I know...I would have knowledge of some things that lead up to this video. It would also been a horrible defining moment in my life that I don't think I would ever be able to put out of my memory. Does this make sense?
CWMI, to answer your questions. My H had been divorced 8 years before we met. His ex cheated on him. I don't talk to her nor does he. I divorced my ex husband for his inability to keep his zipper up. He cheated on me. I was married to him for 4 years together 7.
He is not capable of accepting my explanations or justification as the truth
okay, I think i've stuffed down a lot of pain that he has caused my heart. I know he'd never ever want to hurt me emotionally and Never would he physically touch me....but I've been in an emotionally abusive marriage. His deep seated insecurities are wearing me out.
How much of MB are you familiar with? If you've read much, then you know that attempting to straighten out your spouse is a DJ. If you know the truth (and that is kind of weird that you would wonder if you were drugged??? Where have you been that it would have been possible?) then all you need to do is tell it, and tell him to knock it off if he AO's.
If he doesn't like you leaving the party to have 45 minute private conversations with men, knock it off. If he doesn't like you chatting up men at bars...knock it off! Is that so hard? I like to talk to my husband. Try that!
Wow, Justustwo!
I really identify with what you are saying (I think ) My H has occasional bouts of insecurity. We are going through this now in fact. I look forward to reading all the advice! I don't have any male friends, myself, and am unsure of how to handle it too, I just try to be patient until it passes.
Hmmm that is strange that this female in this porn looks like you and that you agree too! I just read through your post's more carefully, and I am confused that you would say that you almost wonder if you could have been drugged? What? Do you get yourself into situations where this could ever happen?
Are you thinking your H could have drugged you and had you make a porn? Do you and your H "party" a lot?
My H does have bouts of insecurity, but does not accuse me of making porn or anything like you have described.
CWMI, I'm not attempting to straighten my H out. I'm merely at a point that I don't know if I can continue the marriage the way it is. I'm exhausted defending myself on such absurdity. When I saw the video...I said to him, I can see how you could think that is me...it does look like me, but I've never done this. My logic was "If that is me, which it's not, would mean that I must have been drugged to not have any recollection of this act. I would have been able to remember things leading up to the video. The girl in the video was cognitive of what she was doing" The point here is that is wasnt me, but he worked himself up into a frenzy for 4 days with accusing me.
Tisme, No we don't party, swing or have much of a social life here at all. I like to entertain at my house (very few and far between) as we don't have any close friends here.
My husbands deep insecurity is pushing me away. That's it in a nutshell. He has admitted that he's got a huge problem. He needs to take the steps to get some help.
As far as my going to bars. We don't belly up, that was 10 years ago. I don't have any male friends. I don't have but a few girlfriends from the neighborhood. We moved to a very small town from a big city. The coworkers that were over we're here for a class that my H taught. I just met them. I don't think I did anything wrong by sitting on my back patio enjoying the last of the evening. It wasn't a party either.
I'll admit I might have wondered if my H spent 45 mins talking to someone. But context is important and entertaining at your own home is a bit different. If he doesn't want you talking to men at all then he shouldn't be inviting them to your house when you're there. Then you can talk to him all he wants You're not a caterer who's expected to be seen but not to interact with your guests.
Thing is, though, that none of this matters. MB principles are that you should stop doing things that upset him. Period. The question for you is whether there is enough in the marriage to keep you engaged with that ground rule.
How long has your H had this porn issue? How do you feel about this? Did he have these jealousy issues before he started viewing porn?
It is very strange that he seeks out porn with women that look like you. I just don't know what to make of that. Have you asked him the reason he is doing this?
It almost seems like this may be some sort of strange fantasy for him, but at the same time makes him insanely jealous! Have you asked him to stop with the porn? Dr. Harley says SF should not be met outside of the marriage.
Yeah, if we had people over and my H spent 45 minutes chatting up some woman away from the rest of us, I would complain about it, and if he called me insecure, I would be very angry about that. But I would go looking for my H before 45 minutes passed anyway.
She is calling his feelings "insecurity" so that she doesn't have to deal with them. Getting him to deal with his "insecurities" is not going to help. She needs to start taking his feelings into account.
He doesn't want her having a one on one conversation with another man for 45 minutes. That doesn't make him insecure, and it is very disrespectful of her to call him that.
I don't think I did anything wrong by sitting on my back patio enjoying the last of the evening.
Hi Justustwo! Welcome to MB!
This phrase caught my attention because it's a conversation my H and I have had as well. I will tell him how I feel about something (i.e. "I felt insecure when you talked to that girl") and his answer is that he "didn't do anything wrong."
This isn't an issue of "right" v. "wrong." It's an issue of consideration for the feelings of your spouse. In successful marriages, spouses consider the feelings of their spouse and make adjustments. They do not judge one another's sensitivities.
In unsuccessful marriages, spouses continue doing what they want to do, even if it upsets their spouse. Dr. Harley calls this "gaining at the others' expense."
It all depends upon your goal. At MB the goal of "preserving one another's love bank balances in order to maintain romantic love" is #1. If your H feels insecure, this means you are losing love units in his account - putting him at risk of falling out of love with you.
It would be easier if it didn't bother him. But it does bother him.
You are married - which is a partnership of extraordinary care and consideration, beyond any other. Accommodating the sensitivities of your spouse is one way to show extraordinary care.
But there's no "have to" about any of this. You can choose whether you are going to care for him - or not.
I did go in during the outside conversation. I went in and gave him a kiss and I went back outside. My husband has admitted to having some demons that rear their ugly heads. My husband has admitted that his perceptions are skewed. He has told me so many times how "insecure" he is. I'm not labeling, he's labeling himself. He admits, he sees, that his behavior isn't normal and it's putting alot of weight on our marriage. None it matters...the dynamics of our marriage are not known by you good folks here nor understood because you don't know the history and have not observed our interactions.
Brainhurts, thanks for that link. To everyone else who has responded on this thread. I thank you for insight and your time in posting. I'm going to go seek my own therapist, H told me he won't go and he'll work on his issues himself. I do see him trying so that's a start. Again, thanks for the feedback.
justustwo, can you write an email to Dr Harley on his radio show and tell him what you told us? He might have some good ideas for your husband. IT is free and he often offers to speak to you personally to get a good understanding of the situation and offer suggestions. He has a radio show and you don't have to go on the show if you don't want to, but he will still help you.
Hey MelodyLane, Yes I'm very familiar with Dr. Harley's radio show. And yes, I think I will email him! I love and Cherish my precious husband. Having a great marriage and relationship with my husband is top priority. FWIW MelodyLane, you are an amazing contributor on this website. A Godsend, like so many others here...and you Rock. I found this site in 1999 and I get MB, I make a concerted effort to apply MB principles to my marriage. I have given this website to a many of my friends to better their marriage. The information here is bar none!
justustwo, I thought I would chime in because I can relate to your husband a bit and mine would probably relate to you (that is, if I felt comfortable with him speaking to you - just thought I'd throw a little joke in there).
Anyway, since you are on board with MB you understand that the big picture of meeting ENs overall and avoiding LBs overall is important. I find that I tend to be more jealous when my ENs and LBs are not being met than I am when they are being met. That being said, I would still feel uncomfortable, no matter what the situation, if my H spent 45 minutes speaking to another women privately while people were over. Everyone has their line and even though his is more rigid than yours, it doesn't make his wrong.
Also, my H has pushed the boundaries with acceptable relationships in the past and has told white lies. Those things have permanently kept my ears perked and made me feel very insecure when I catch even a whiff of a potential lie. My H wouldn't admit that those things were worthy of concern and it is exactly that attitude that makes me continue to be concerned. I don't know if you have ever violated his trust to even a minor degree, but it sounds like he might believe you are capable of risky behaviors.
Also, my H is not really a believer in the POJA and that makes it difficult for me to believe that he won't do things that would hurt my feelings when I am not watching him.
In an ideal world, my H could do the following things if he never wanted me to act insecure again:
1. Stop doing the things I ask him to stop doing
2. Be able to notice cues in the moment or be willing to come up with a cue for me to tell him when he is making me uncomfortable so he will stop.
3. Get on board with POJA and follow it
4. Be totally transparent about what he is doing and when and also with phone and email.
I notice that the more my H considers my feelings, shows me love and respect, and makes me feel like I am his world, the less I worry. The opposite is true, too. Still, there will always be things that will bother me and make me feel insecure regardless of how in love we feel.
I see 3 problems here:
1. Your husband is abusive to you during his 'insane spells'. Even if he does not touch you physically, he is controlling you if he goes on and on for an entire month about some minor thing.
2. Your husband is looking at porn. YOU should be the one bugging HIM about that instead of the other way around. That he is looking for women who look like you, you may want to take that as a compliment. It is not unusual to be a bit aroused on the thought of someone else hitting on your spouse (or more), but he should cut the porn alltogether, because it is causing problems as you have experienced already.
3. Your husband was sexually abused.
Now his behaviour may or may not be linked to his bad experiences, but bottom line: it has to stop. It is not acceptable that he is accusing you of these idiotic things.
If he teaches other people, he is probably intelligent enough to realize that it is time to get some behavioural therapy (the kind that helps you change your behaviour and deal with the past, without trying to have you wallow in problems of years gone by).
Goals:
- no porn
- normal behaviour towards you (you should condone this no more)
- to be able to live his life with problems from the past interfering as little as possible.
I am not saying you should not POJA here. But if it goes so far that you should put on a burka and not speak with any man ever, lest your husband thinks you hit on him, then it crosses the line of what is healthy. In that case your husband can go live in Afganistan, where they will happily agree with him.
God bless,
Happyheart
Happyheart,
Your post was very much appreciated. I'm in full agreement. I'm getting my head wrapped around the whole situation. My H and I have talked and he is in agreement that our marriage does NOT have room for porn addiction. Again, I do see him opening up and being more vulnerable and trying...so this is awesome. We POJA without realizing as this comes very natural to both of us on most decisions.
We meet each others needs. We show and tell each other how much we love each other daily through actions, hugs, kisses. We spend all of our time together when we are not working. We love to dance on the back patio, He loves to talk to me while I'm watering the veg garden and flowers. He and I are a great team and work well on home projects. We enjoy spending our down time at home or on the boat or playing pool on our table.
I rarely deny him SF and we have relations 4 to 6 times a week. He has a V E R Y high sex drive and masterbates even though we have a good sex life. We make light of his being like a dog humping on my leg. He and I both enjoyed documenting our lives with pictures. Now here is where I have possibly gone wrong: In knowing that he had a need for "visual" stimulation, I have always played with him and his camera. I have allowed him to take risque pictures of me for HIM. My thinking was I'd rather him look at me than other women.FWIW, I have never had any other man take nude pics of me. I'm that comfortable with my Husband. The issue for me goes back to his being insatiable...he wants more and more and more. I'm happy to play, But I want my boundaries respected when I say NO I'm not in the mood. He is finally "getting" this. It's taken this whole absurd accusation to shed some light into some of his idiosyncrasies.
He and I talk about our dreams for the future, growing old together in retirement. I do know that we will work through this rather large bump in the road. He apologizes for the pain he has caused me every day since this has happened. If we can just get this porn issue out of our marriage, I could say that we have a ROCK SOLID marriage. I am going to email the Harleys. I've not done this to date, but I will soon.
Well I don't know how to put this differently, but his high sex drive might be somewhat of a habit. Like some women eat chocolate all day, although they can't be hungry half an hour after dinner, but it tastes so good, that you want to eat it anyway.
This may very well be why he masturbates so often: because it feels so good. Not because he cannot do without, because I imagine, that if he is in a meeting, he can control himself. It feels good, it is fun, it is uncomplicated and fast.
From my own experience, I can tell that if you stop masturbating and focus ALL of your sexual energy at your partner, your sex life will get ever so more intense. This means to redirect every sexual or sensual thought to your spouse and not to touch yourself, but only have yourself touched by your spouse.
It is really difficult in the beginning, because you are used to have instant gratification at your own hand. It means you sometimes have to postpone the pleasure, when your partner is not at hand. After a few months, it gets easier and easier, because you get used to only having sex when your spouse is involved. The sex becomes more electrifying, because you have been thinking about it and longing for it throughout the day and every touch sets you on fire.
I would never have thought that it would matter so much, because you always read to masturbate to stimulate your sex life. I would say that the opposite is true.
Well, I hope that counseling with Dr. H will solve your problems.
God bless,
Happyheart
oops, I think I must stop posting about these subjects, makes me blush...
here is a link that goes to a talk in peps thread about porn use and the contrast effect.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2567688&page=9MNG