Thank you so much for your time answering my post. He knows that when we have those conversations it triggers me. We’ve discussed it many times. That upsets him too, because he says it shouldn’t still trigger me the way it does. He feels that he is believing in me but I’m not believing in him since I still fear that he hasn’t changed. I tell him it’s these conversations that cause me to fear he hasn’t changed because in them he is that same animated, frustrated, angry, hurt guy, telling me how unfair it is; trying to convince me I shouldn’t feel the way I do any more. This sounds to me like the same guy that badgered for sex. But he says that’s unfair too. He says he’s done a lot of changing but I don’t want to change (I have changed a lot but know I need to continue to grow, always). The conversations feel very judgemental. He says he has tried to just keep his mouth shut and not defend himself but again doesn’t see why I should get to voice my feelings and he can’t. He says my feelings hurt him and then he wants to share his feelings with me in turn. I explain to him that I want him to share his feelings, but it’s the way he does it that hurts. It comes across very accusatory, blaming and critical. He says that’s just the way he talks; he says he’s very passionate and very vocal. I have said many times that maybe I should not tell him how I am still feeling because of how it hurts him. I don’t want to hurt him and upset him. If I ever share my feelings, it’s because he asks me how I’m doing. Most times, I say maybe we shouldn’t talk about it but he pushes and says he wants to know. But then he wants to be able to defend himself when I do. Then as soon as I do, and he gets upset, I back off of my feelings and the conversation turns to how I have made him feel because of my feelings. He doesn’t think that he is being judgemental when he voices his defense; he’s just trying to help me see it a different way. He’s definitely not validating my feelings. He says he doesn’t think it will ever change; that he’ll never be able to voice his defense because of how I take things incorrectly. It also always takes the turn of him telling me that I am being judgemental too. So I always tell him I’m sorry he feels that way and I’m sorry I came across that way and that I don’t want him to feel like I’m judging him; that that’s not my intention. So, at this point we are both taking each other the wrong way. We both think we are not being judgemental but are being taken that way.
We had one such conversation yesterday. It started out good. We were driving and he told me he was very encouraged about us; that it seemed that I was opening up. He asked how I was doing; how I was feeling about us; how I was doing with my aversion to physical touch. I told him I was absolutely feeling myself open up more and more. I told him I wished it was going faster and I’m sorry it isn’t. He asked again how the aversion was going. I suggested maybe it would be best not to talk about that. I don’t want to hurt him. I know it hurts him ta I am not there yet. But he pushed and said he’d be alright. We talked about the things that were helping me; that the longer he went without getting frustrated and voicing his frustration in the way he did, that I was beginning to believe more and more that he really had changed and wasn’t going to do that again.. (We have a cycle of him being fine for a while but then he gets frustrated again eventually and lashes out). He said he actually wasn’t even getting frustrated at all any more. I told him that if he really has changed, my belief will continue to grow because of the absence of him eventually getting frustrated and lashing out. Then it went bad. The fact that I said “I he really has changed”, set him off. He said he believes in me and I should believe in him, and so it went from there. I apologized for how that made him feel and we spent the rest of the conversation with him telling me how hurt he was, etc.
Again, it sounded like the same guy, hence hurting the trust in him that I had been building.
Pummy, the more important issue here is how you feel. You will never ever recover if he bullies and punishes you when you tell him how he is doing. How else is to gauge his progress if you don't tell him? He is making strategic mistakes that are ruining your progress. When he gets angry at you for being honest, he just undoes all the progress he made. Does he want to do that? The main concern is how you feel. You need to be a broken record about this. It might be helpful to communicate your feelings via email versus in person.
If I ever share my feelings, it’s because he asks me how I’m doing. Most times, I say maybe we shouldn’t talk about it but he pushes and says he wants to know. But then he wants to be able to defend himself when I do. Then as soon as I do, and he gets upset, I back off of my feelings and the conversation turns to how I have made him feel because of my feelings. He doesn’t think that he is being judgemental when he voices his defense; he’s just trying to help me see it a different way.
I would stop these conversations completely until he agrees to STOP trying to "help you see it a different way." That is a huge lovebuster. He should accept your perspective if wants progress and if he wants you to continue to be honest. If you are going to be judged and badgered, you will want to avoid these conversations. Denying he is judging you does not make it better.
Write him an email and tell him: In order to make progress, you have to be able to tell him honestly how you feel. He cannot get mad or reject your feelings. Your feelings are the barometer of his progress. When he gets mad or rejects your feelings, he just undoes all the progress he made and makes you want to give up.
As far as dates, we have talked about it and he feels that because we spend at least 15 hours together throughout the week (going to the store, one date per week that lasts 3 hours, running errands together, going out to eat, eating dinner together, sometimes cooking dinner together, etc; an hour here and there, sometimes 2 hours at a time),
You know the old saying that "feelings are not truth?" Well, feelings are not truth. He makes alot of "he feels" statements that are not true. You need to get out on AT LEAST 4 - 4 hour dates a week if you want to create desire. Otherwise this is a waste of time.
that we don’t need to do the 4 4 hr dates. I will think about bringing it up to him, but I don’t feel I have a right to ask him for that since his needs are not being met. I figured I shouldn’t push that until I get over my aversion to physical touch and sex. Can you tell me why the 4 hr dates are better that 15 hours throughout the week?
Actually it should be 20-25 hours per week! His needs will
NEVER be met if he doesn't create desire. You are putting the cart before the horse. If he WANTS you to get over the aversion, you have to fall in love again. In order to fall in love again, you need to spend 20-25 hours per week meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs. YOU ARE NOT DOING THAT.
Can you tell me why the 4 hr dates are better that 15 hours throughout the week?
Yes, because the UA time is supposed to emulate dating, just like Dr Harley has instructed. Just adding up the time you are together in the house, doing the same things, IS NOT UA TIME.
If you won't do this step, your marriage will never improve. Nothing you do in your marriage will compensate for the lack of UA time. NOTHING.
"But fifteen hours a week is usually not nearly enough time for couples that are not yet in love. To help them jump-start their relationship, I usually suggest twenty-five or thirty hours a week of undivided attention until they are both in love with each other again."
"As I have observed the quality and quantity of undivided attention given in romantic relationships, I find that while some time is given almost daily, significant "dates" are scheduled several times a week. These dates usually take about three or four hours, the time that it would take to meet all four of the intimate emotional needs to the satisfaction of both spouses. So while some form of emotional connection should be made throughout the week, if the four intimate emotional needs are to be met effectively, a four-hour date is usually required."
THE POLICY OF UNDIVIDED ATTENTION