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I just want to thank MB for another success story. Here is a quick recap for those who do not know my story:

5/5/06 - W meets OM at a work Cinco de Mayo party. They hit it off.

6/2/06 - W and I have a huge knock-down-drag-out fight, I withdraw and LB.

6/22/06 - W and OM hang out for first time by themselves.

7/8/06 - OM tells W he loves her at house party AT MY HOUSE!

7/28/06 - WW doesn't come home, says she got drunk and slept in her car (actually stayed at OM's apartment)

8/13/06 - Last time we had SF.

8/16/06 - OM leaves job and moves out of town, starts recruiting my W to come with him.

8/25/06 - D-Day, I find email that she is meeting OM in NYC. I get ILYBINILWY speech. I start modified plan A the next day even though I hadn't found MB as of yet.

9/6/06 - I relunctantly agree to move out and live with my parents so she can get the "space" she needs to make a decision.

9/23/06 - She goes on a 5 day vacation to NYC with OM.

10/3/06 - I move back in after I figure out the "space" I've given her has only made things worse.

10/29/06 - W tells me she wants a D, I find that she's been looking at job and apartment websites in OM's city, I find MB the next day and start reading.

11/3/06 - I post my story on MB, do a little more digging, and find my WW's EA is a PA. I expose to EVERYONE. WW tells me I ruined any chance of us reconciling. She starts calling up lawyers.

11/8/06 - I overhear a conversation of my WW telling OM, that she's just going to sponge off me until she saves up enough money to move and D. I immediately go to plan B, separate my finances, leave her a letter that tells her she needs to get new insurance and find a place to stay by the following week. She leaves me a message (crying) saying that she can't commit to M, but that she agrees to NC with OM and will not D at this time. I weigh my options and decide to go back to plan A.

11/28/06 - NC is broken the first time. WW buys calling card and calls from payphone, but I catch her.

12/16/06 - NC broken again by same method. I don't find card, but I do find purchase on her online bank statement.

1/18/07 - NC broken again, but WW does it from her cell phone and tells me before I find out. She says that she called him to end it for good and say goodbye.

1/26/07 - NC broken again. WW says she asked him back for some of her stuff.

1/27/07 - Last breach of NC (TMs). WW says it is about arguing over the items.

2/07-3/07 - Things finally start to improve. Starting with Valentine's Day, WW agrees to hang out with me, and I plan about 1 fun activity per week including murder mystery dinner theater, meeting the St. Louis Blues after a game, Mardi Gras, touring the Missouri wine country, her sister's birthday, dancing at a club downtown, trivia night, etc.

4/07 - WW finally agrees to go on vacation with me. She starts saying ILY again, and wants to hang out with me all the time. She purchase new furniture for the house and starts acting committed to our marriage again.

5/23/07 - WW and I go on a vacation to the Pacific Northwest. It is a HUGE success. WW starts wearing her ring again. Keeps saying ILY.

6/3/07 - After 43 weeks of sexual frustration, Jim FINALLY gets SF again. Hooray! She also starts talking having children together in the future which was one of things she was adamant about not having before and during the A.

I just want all you people who are struggling through similar situations to understand that things can turn around, it just takes a VERY long time and A LOT of patience. I wouldn't be her if I didn't keep believing and sacrificed my own needs while I worked on meeting hers and avoiding LBs.

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My dad had lots o' patience, and he was always one to work on behalf of the underdog...in his quiet, behind-the-scenes way. And he ususally was pretty successful at it, too....never gave up.

So I guess you are right. Maybe he is storming heaven....in his quiet, behind the scenes way. Getting all the ducks in a row, making sure all the bases are covered, considering it from every angle, reading Consumers Reports.

So when he acts, it's with determination and certainty.

Helping make things right for me. Did I ever share the ten things I learned from my Dad? (I wrote it the day after he died for the woman who did his eulogy; my sisters insisted that I be the one to write something on behalf of us girls)

• Things that are old and worn out are the most comfortable.

• Don’t start eating until you say grace.

• Work is hard, and can make you tired, but when you believe in what you do, it’s worth it.

• A sense of humor will get you through the most difficult times, such as when all the hot water is gone.

• Never bring home an Irish setter (or anything else) that doesn’t belong to you.

• Making others happy can be the key to your own happiness.

• Sometimes “good enough” really is good enough.

• Never make a major purchase without consulting Consumer Reports.

• A rose is often found between two thorns.

• Sometimes it’s just a raccoon outside the camper, so don’t be afraid to face what scares you.

• Guilt is an extremely effective parenting tool.

• Sometimes you get the twirly plate, or the bay leaf on your piece of pizza, or chocolate cake when you’d rather have lemon, but enjoy your food—and life—anyway.

Right after d-day, I printed this out and stuck it on my fridge. I should probably pay more attention to it, instead of glancing at it as I reach in for the ice cream.

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posted July 29, 2000 11:30 AM
Oh cerebral me...
I rarely get a chance to post a question or thought of my own...
...but here it goes anyway...

Most of you know that I advocate Dr. Harley's principles with a great deal of fidelity especially in the application of Plan A and Plan B...
...whether they be procedures or processes or otherwise...
...and it might seem strange that as I continue my long distance Plan A, I now propose a discussion of Plan B.

Yes... this should be on the Plan A/Plan B forum...
...but there are few responses there... so I continue here...

The thrust of the question/thought is:
Many who have not yet made it to RECOVERY have wondered... "When do I quit?"...
With this in mind... I asked myself...
"since we consider Plan B as a final step... and we deliberately leave off a time limit in the Plan B letter... when does Plan B really end?...and how is it to end?"

My thoughts...
...take them as just mine...
...in humbleness... I force nothing on anyone...

The issue of a truly abusive situation...
...one that "breaks" the relationship... it is then, unquestionably, over...
...but when one can apply Plan A and perhaps Plan B... I explore these further.

Plan A ends usually by entering into the perils of what many expect to be the joyfulness of recovery...
...All too often we hear the stories of how it would have been better to not enter into this stage at all
...tribulations continue
...change by the spouse not accepting Plan A efforts is slow
...learning the 4 rules of a successful marriage never takes place at the pace we'd like
...struggles in working out a personal POJA hampers all efforts
...growing pains are hard
...triggers remain
...and even here... success isn't guaranteed...
...but through all its difficulties
...recovery is the best goal to strive for
...and its continuation is one of a healthier marriage.

Plan A can also end...
...by starting Plan B...

...but what about the ending of Plan B?...
(I can't rule out Plan A ending this way too...
...for those who continue in Plan A and... never quite make it to Plan B... {Chris... you and I are included here and... I did read your post the other day... what timing for your "update"})

So what about the end of Plan B?...

Obviously... if one of the goals of Plan B (forcing our S's ENs to be met by the OP) reaches its desired result... the WS will return...
...and the normal push toward recovery starts...

But for some in Plan B (and a few in Plan A)... this travel into recovery does not occur.
We are told... and I plug this as much as anyone... (K included)...
...we are to reach a state of ("near Nirvana") where we can move on...

...but there comes a point (or several points) along this roller coaster ride... a conflicting scenario...

Plan B (in the standard letter) says... "we are saving what little love (in our Love Banks) we have for our spouses"...
...but then... in time... we're expected to ...move on...

...clearly to do this... that now infamous "no contact"... (or extended long distance Plan A)... itself leads to a slow drain of that precious love... and periodically we reach anxiety points when we sense the loss... (like a buoy riding on top of small waves in an ocean searching for the sight of the shoreline) ...the shoreline of "the state of lost love"... and the start of a new journey.

How do we know that we've reached that shore line?...
Are the waves crashing on our backs the sign?....
Is it the rough shells our feet walk upon among those signs?...
Is it the water running off of our backs?...
Might all of these be just temporary reprieves before we really reach that shore line?
Once we reach the dry land... are we rejoining the "tree dwellers"?...
...or the "wind walkers"?...
...(see my post Inspire (13))
Signs are often misleading...
Listening with the "inner" EAR... found only in our hEARt...
...will direct us to this truth.

All through Plan B (and Plan A as well) we all say...
....this is a time of growth...
....it gives you time to better learn the skills of marital success...
....it let's you re-find your direction
...... thrown off stride by your unrepentant and/or unforgiving spouse...

But even though we can never reach the fullness of these skills alone
...and work at the skills without human interaction (maybe a partner)....
...through which we practice and hone those skills...
...is there merit to the learning of these skills?

Those marital skills...
...after all...
...are skills of all human relationships...

The rule of protection... after all... is to protect anyone from our inevitable failings
The rule of care... after all... is to care for... to love our neighbor as ourselves... even our enemies
The rule of honesty... after all... is a desire to have honesty shown us... by everyone... to not bear false witness
The rule of time... after all... is to give of ourselves the most valuable of all human resources...
...since in the end... that is what we really lose out on...
...see my post Inspire (35)
...are these "rules" procedures?... or processes?...
...to that... all I can say is... does it matter?!

So back to... "when/how does Plan B end?"...

There comes a time.... sometimes when you're close enough to the shoreline...
...and you're enlightened... in the reality that your spouse has left...
...left in a way deeper than not being physically close...
...left in a way deeper than losing their own faith/mind/spirit...
...left in a way deeper than just a filing or completing of a divorce.

A divorce is not the end of Plan B.
The signed document isn't a testimony... just a decree of entering a transition!

The end comes in knowing... both...
1. You have learned all of the 4 rules of "human" relationships
...and...
2. You have an "acceptance"... of a new journey in your life.

Both must happen... not just one... or the other.

We, most likely, know if we learned those rules...
...like everything we learn in life... it is made better only by practice...
...our learning will be imperfect... and that is OK...
...as long as we can persevere...
...and it is under our control!
...failure leads us to hurtful(rebound) relationships
...success leads us to wisdom... and healthy relationships

But... that "acceptance"... it is the more difficult and less absolute aspect...
...this comes to us as a presence of mind...
...it is not something to be worked at...
...it just happens...
...whether we are aided by waves crashing, our feet on the shells, or water off our backs...
...when we can accept this presence of mind
...... to close out what we've lost...
...we will then begin a renewal!...
...the suffering of the past can then be fully put behind you.

What is decided as a new journey is up to us...
...it could be a new relationship leading to marriage
...it could be as a life as a single
both are valid vocations...
...aided mostly by how we have learned in "building good relationships"...

In my mind...
...when you know your on that new journey...
...that is... when the Plan B ends.

I pray for all to heal...



Jim

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A Native American legend:

A young boy was walking in the mountains, high up, near the tree line. The weather was cold and winter was about to begin.

As he walked along, he found a rattle snake. It was coiled up tightly, braced against the cold wind.

“Please help me!” the snake said to the boy, “If I don’t get down to lower elevations and warm up, I’ll surely die.”

“Help you?” asked the boy, “why would I help someone who could harm me?”

“If you don’t help me, Ill die!” said the snake. “But if you’ll just pick me up and take me down the mountain with you, I’ll have a chance to live.”

“But you’ll bite me if I touch you, and then I will die,” said the boy.

“No,” said the snake, “I promise, that if you’ll help me, I’ll let you live, for I will owe you my life.”

So the boy, after contemplating his course of action, picked up the snake, placed him inside his coat and began his long climb down the mountain.

The snake began to warm up inside the boy’s coat, and as his strength returned. He began to move around, and then he bit the boy on his side.

The boy tore the snake out of his coat and shouted, “You said you wouldn’t bite me if I helped you and now you’ve done just that! I am going to die here on the mountain and my family will be devastated. No one will even know what happened to me. My people may even blame the neighboring people and think that they have done something to me. There could be a great war and many will die. You promised! How could you do such a thing?”

“You knew “said the snake, “what I was when you picked me up.”


In the story of David and Bathsheba, 2Sam 11:1 says "at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king's men and the whole Israelite army."

David was where he should not have been, and fell to the temptation.

If you go where you shouldn’t go and seek out that which can harm you, you will be bitten by the snake! Only one Man has ever been successful at resisting all temptation!

It isn’t about resisting, it is about boundaries.

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There once was a little boy who had a bad

temper. His Father gave him a bag of nails

and told him that every time he lost his

temper, he must hammer a nail into the back

of the fence. The first day the boy had

driven 37 nails into the fence Over the next

next few weeks, as he learned to control his


anger, the number of nails hammered daily

gradually dwindled down. He discovered

it was easier to hold his temper than to

drive those nails into the fence.

Finally the day came when the boy didn't

lose his temper at all. He told his father

about it and the father suggested that the

boy now pull out one nail for each day that

he was able to hold his temper.


The days passed and the young boy was finally

able to tell his father that all the nails

were gone. The father took his son by the

hand and led him to the fence He said, "You

have done well, my son, but look at the

holes in the fence. The fence will never be

the same. When you say things in anger,

they leave a scar just like this one. You

can put a knife in a man and draw it out.

It won't matter how many times you say I'm

sorry, the wound is still there. " A verbal

wound is as bad as a physical one.

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DO's

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

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Pep,

I am honored by inclusion... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

It's good to know someone actually reads this stuff occasionally. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,

Mark

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thank YOU Mark

Pepperband #1836847 06/11/07 05:32 PM
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Marriage is a closed contract. When you open it....the contract has been broken. There are some people who argue that the contract is about "honesty" rather than "exclusivity", but opening a marriage invariable dilutes it's value as a covenant and opens it to RISK. Promiscuity waters down honor and marriage vows until they mean NOTHING.

I truly believe that there is a sanctity in the exclusive (emotional AND sexual) union of TWO people that provides the strongest bond, the most opportunity for depth and growth, the most stable environment for children, families and communities. It weakens us as a society when marriage models are flawed or fail.

If you "want it all"....don't get married or have children. I could care less if people want a hundred sex partners....but don't marry....and don't bring innocent children into the nightmare you're creating for yourself and bring them into the risk and drama that open marriage INVITES into your life.

Every time you add another person, another couple, fuzzy boundaries and wishful thinking....you increase RISK exponentially.

You think marriage with two people is hard??? Lord in Heaven....just start adding sex partners if you want a crash course for self destruct, shame and pain.

Can it be done successfully? Some say yes....but *I* don't believe it...I say....it's just another fantasy like the rest of affairs. I was hippie, and we grocked like the rest of the "Strangers in a Strange Land". What a delusion. This stuff was tried and failed. The only thing that differentiates swinging from affairs is the *honesty*.....and most of the time....that breaks down anyway!! It starts out honest until real feelings get in the way.....and they always get in the way, because we're WIRED that way.

But even if it didn't. Let's say two people agree to share their bodies but not their emotions and do it all above board....this is not a recipe for marriage...it's a recipe for tragedy, shame, denial and divorce. The essential problem with swinging is that it takes energy away from the primary relationship with spouse, family and children. It waters it down. It strains it. It undermines the intimacy.

It's next to impossible to share something as intimate as sex, and not develope affair-style biochemistry that acts on the marriage like ANY OTHER AFFAIR. You're kidding yourself if you think your biochemistry won't betray you.

I've spoken to many many people in this situation....and sadly....the results are as predictable as any other kind of affair. Somebody wants it....somebody gets talked into it. There is an agreement. It goes okay for a while....sometimes even a good long while. Then someone crosses the line....they start to hide their emotional involvement with one of their sex partners, or they get that "in love" biochemistry and there's no difference at all in the script....bla bla bla.

I honestly can't understand why people who want an open marriage, get married at all. Polyamory, open marriages, swinging....they are finally nothing but a selfish illusion that eventually blows up and creates shame and the destruction of families....JUST LIKE ANY OTHER kind of infidelity.

I've done extensive research on this subject. I have found absolutely NO evidence whatsoever that these models are sustainable long enough to raise children. In fact, the only research available says quite the opposite. The only place you get a real rosy picture of this lifestyle....is on the sites that promote it! Duh

It's a trap, a Brigadoon,....an insidious cancer like any other adultery that promises Utopia and delivers drama and heartbreak. There are probably a few die hard swingers who follow through....but for the majority of us....don't try this at home!! There are people who try to jump the Grand Canyon on a motorcycle....but that doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I agree with people who say that humans are probably not naturally monogamous. No siree....it takes strength of character to avoid temptation. It takes pain and forgiveness to move past the pitfalls and failures. But to me, that's precisely what makes marriage so special and unique...that we can rise above our primal roots and make a commitment that transcends even nature. That we care enough about one person to be MORE than our sexual yearnings for change. How cool is that?

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I have found the following good article on the Internet and thought it might be good to share it here. Maybe it will be of some insight, help or understanding to new people on this board who currently find or previously have found themselves in similar situations.

INFIDELITY REACHES BEYOND HAVING SEX:

EMOTIONAL INTIMACY, VIRTUAL AFFAIRS TAKE HOLD IN THE WORKPLACE

Cybersex and so-called virtual affairs on the Internet are all the buzz among professionals who study spouses who stray. But the truly fertile ground for dangerous emotional attachments outside marriages is much more conventional: the workplace.

As more employees labor longer hours together, close friendships increasingly are taken for granted. And as more women move into professions once dominated by men, there are greater temptations for both sexes.

There is a new ''crisis of infidelity'' breeding in the workplace, says Baltimore psychologist and marital researcher Shirley Glass. Often it does not involve sexual thrill seekers, but ''good people,'' peers who are in good marriages.

''The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love,'' Glass says.

Glass' 25 years of research on ''extramarital attachments'' adds to a growing understanding of just what constitutes infidelity and why it happens.

She believes affairs do not have to include sex. ''In the new infidelity, affairs do not have to be sexual. Sometimes the greatest betrayals happen without touching. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust.''

This revised concept of an affair is embraced by increasing numbers of Glass' colleagues. People are ''incredibly devastated by their partner's emotional affair,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has researched infidelity for 20 years. ''They separate over it, divorce over it, this breaking of a trust, a bond.'' The third edition of Vaughan's The Monogamy Myth will be released this month.

A platonic friendship, such as those that grow at work, edges into an emotional affair when three elements are present, Glass says:

* Emotional intimacy. Transgressors share more of their ''inner self, frustrations and triumphs than with their spouses. They are on a slippery slope when they begin sharing the dissatisfaction with their marriage with a co-worker.''

* Secrecy and deception. ''They neglect to say, 'We meet every morning for coffee.' Once the lying starts, the intimacy shifts farther away from the marriage.''

* Sexual chemistry. Even though the two may not act on the chemistry, there is at least an unacknowledged sexual attraction.

Glass sums up her research and that of others in Not ''Just Friends'': Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal (Free Press, $24), now arriving in bookstores.

''This is the essence of the new crisis of infidelity: friendships, work relationships and Internet liaisons have become the latest threat to marriages,'' Glass says.

Affairs that take place in chat rooms on the Internet are classic examples of emotional infidelity. How many have affairs, either emotional or sexual, is difficult to gauge. After reviewing 25 studies, Glass believes 25% of wives and 44% of husbands have had extramarital intercourse.

About two-thirds of the 350 couples she has treated include one or both partners who have had some type of intense affair, sexual or emotional. The most threatening to marriages combine both, she says. Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46% of the women met their illicit partner through work.

Researchers identify many factors contributing to infidelity. Proximity at the office is key for Glass. ''My research and the research of others point to opportunity as a primary factor. . . . Attractions are a fact of life when men and women work side by side.''

Many other risk factors may be in play. They include:

* Family patterns. Unfaithful parents tend to produce sons who betray their wives and daughters who either accept affairs as normal or are unfaithful themselves, Glass says.

* Biochemical cravings. Changes in brain chemicals during an affair can create a ''high that becomes almost addictive,'' says Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman, author of Private Lies: Infidelity and the Betrayal of Intimacy.

Bonnie Eaker-Weil, author of Adultery: The Forgivable Sin, says the biological need for connection can result from ''severe stress, loss or separation'' that often can be traced back to childhood.

* Internet temptations. Increasing numbers of cyber-affairs are breaking up stable marriages, says psychologist Kimberly Young, author of Tangled in the Web: Understanding Cybersex From Fantasy to Addiction. She cites the anonymity and convenience of the Internet, as well as the escape it provides from the stresses of everyday life.

* Increasing premarital sex. The more premarital sexual activity, the greater the chance of an extramarital affair, Glass says. ''Because girls are more sexually active at younger ages than they used to be, married women are not nearly as inhibited about crossing the line.''

* Child-centered marriages. Parents with dual careers and limited time ''often collude to give what time they have to the children. Their bond is built on co-parenting, and they don't make time for themselves,'' Glass says.

Stereotypically, the husband finds somebody at work to share his adult interests.

Some affairs happen, Glass says, ''because people have certain beliefs they think will protect them. They believe if they love their spouse and have a good marriage, they don't have to worry. They don't exert the caution that might be necessary or create the boundaries to make their marriages safe.''

Basically monogamous partners drawn to interesting colleagues at work find themselves in ''great internal conflict.'' Her best advice: ''The more attractive we find somebody, the more careful we have to be.''

HOW TO KEEP TEMPTATION AT ARM'S LENGTH

There is no such thing as an affair-proof marriage. But couples who want to protect their unions from infidelity can be mindful of the dangers. To keep a marriage healthy:

* Stay honest with your partner. ''Honesty is the trump card for preventing affairs,'' says Peggy Vaughan, who has studied affairs for more than two decades. Her Web site is dearpeggy.com. ''Make a commitment to sharing your attractions and temptations.'' That helps to avoid acting on them. Dishonesty and deception cause affairs to flourish, Vaughan says.

* Monitor your marriage. ''Realize if there is something missing,'' says psychologist Kimberly Young of St. Bonaventure University in southwest New York state. ''Be willing to try to fix it.'' Assess whether needs are being met.

* Stay alert for temptations. ''Be very careful of getting involved in the first place,'' Young says. ''Know the dangers. You can be drawn to an affair as to a drug. And once you are past a certain point of emotional connection, it is very hard to go into reverse.''

* Don't flirt. ''That is how affairs start,'' says Bonnie Eaker Weil, whose Web site, www.makeupdontbreakup .com, features tips for preventing infidelity. ''Flirting is not part of an innocent friendship. If you think there might be a problem with someone you flirt with, there probably is a problem.''

* Recognize that work can be a danger zone. ''Don't lunch or take private coffee breaks with the same person all the time,'' psychologist Shirley Glass says.

* Beware of the lure of the Internet. ''Emotional affairs develop quickly, in maybe a few days or weeks online, where it might take a year at the office,'' Young says. ''There is safety behind the computer screen.''

* Keep old flames from reigniting. ''If you value your marriage, think twice about having lunch with one,'' Glass says. Invite your partner along.

* Value the intimacy of your marriage. ''Reveal as much of yourself to one another as possible,'' Atlanta psychiatrist Frank Pittman says. ''You will find it less necessary to form an intimate friendship with someone else.''

* Make sure your social network supports marriage. ''Surround yourself with happily married friends who don't believe in fooling around,'' Glass says.

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Hi Everyone.
I know there are a lot of new people here who do not know my story. A year ago, I ended a 6 month EA/PA, and really didn’t know what I wanted out of life, out of my marriage - or even out of myself. At the time, I confessed the A to my H, I really wasn’t sure what I was doing. I didn’t know how the A started, I didn’t know what I was doing, I didn’t even know who I was anymore. When I told my H about the EA/PA, I told him that I wanted to try and work things out - that I loved him and I didn’t know how this could have happened to us. In my mind, I was so confused, that I kind of told myself that I would “give it a year” to see what would happen. That if “things” didn’t get better, work out, whatever - then my H and I both would have to decide what to do.

Anyway, in April, it will have been 1 year since the EA/PA ended for good. My H and I are going to the Outer Banks for vacation, but I am planning several surprises for my H - to thank him for his love, kindness, compassion and patience over the past year. He really is the love of my life.

The following, I thought might be kind of interesting for some, but mainly, it was kind of a cleansing experience for myself - to see where I started and how far my H and I have come in recovery. It's a collection of some of my posts at various points in recovery.

I know we still have a long life/marriage ahead of us, but I thought I’d share the following. . .so, that BS and WS both can see that there is hope under the worst of situations. Again, THIS IS LONG, and I pretty much gathered all of this for my own development, but. . .If you find yourself needing something to read, to give you hope whatever your situation, here it is, the SKM CHRONICLES.

"Low-Life Slug Days(3 Months After DDay)

Right now, every day, I feel like this huge failure. Even though I know I've been forgiven by God and my H, I still feel pretty worthless. It's like I view everyone else on this higher level, an even level where no one has cheated, lied or gotten into trouble - and by the choices I made, I'm living on this sub-human level. I not only hurt the one person that I truly love, but I've completely blown any self-respect I may have had for myself.”

I've have asked my husband Why do you love me? Why do you stay with me when all I do is cry? Maybe it would be easier for me to leave? Each time, my H answers those questions lovingly, honestly and patiently. He loves me, he wants to spend the rest of his life with me. I guess he sees some good in me that I just can't right now.”

Panic & Stupid Questions (4 Months After DDay)

Today he (OM) calls. Just a few minutes ago. I'm in such a panic, my heart is in my throat. I truly don't know what to do. I know that I don't love this person, but can you ever be friends? In my mind, I think I crossed that line a long time ago, and it's too late to be friends. I really feel up-rooted right now. I don't want to hurt my H, I don't want to hurt my marriage, I just really need some to tell me what to do. If your reading, please respond.

My H is aware of the contact, but I didn't tell him about the first phone call until a week had past. Why? I don't know - even though there are probably a lot of theories out there. But for that one week, I felt absolutely miserable - not that I was starting anything up or wanted to, but I felt like I didn't say stop calling me strong enough. I'm a whimp. I have trouble saying no (and that's quite obvious).
I'll tell my H tonight, see what he thinks, get his help. I just hate unloading all of this stuff on him. I feel so darn selfish, it's all "me, me, me." Will it ever end? In my heart, I know it will eventually, and I know he stands with me. I don't want to be mean to the OM, but my H is more important to me than anyone else in this world. So, I just have to fix my focus again. When I posted earlier, I physically felt like I was going to vomit.

“I Don’t Know” - 4 ½ Months After DDay

As a betrayer, I give a lot of "I don't know" answers to my H - even now that we're almost 5 months into recovery. I don't use the "I don't know" response to get out of answering a tough question or to spare my H's feelings, I honestly don't know.

I don't know why the A happened, I don't know why I was attracted to this person, I don't know why I still think about the OM (occasionally), and I don't know why I cry sometimes, I don't know why I look distant, I don't know why I don't feel "happy" right now. I think they're genuine answers to difficult questions.

Well, everyday I'm with my H, I see how wonderful, caring and loving he is. He truly loves me - even after all I've put him through. He knows when something is wrong, and he cares enough to find out what it is. He's my best friend and an awesome H.

The love I have for my H may not be the same as when we first got married, but I think we will eventually have a stronger love.

High Expectations and “The Vacation” - 5 Months After DDay

I guess I expected the clouds to disappear and the skies to open - that the magic wand would have been waved and everything would be perfect - everything would go back to normal. Well, I guess my lesson learned is to be careful for what you wish for - because everything DID go back to normal. We were bickering over small things, I was irritable, I was moody, I was having doubts once again, I was thinking about the OM - again - I was thinking way too much.

Anyway, when we got home, I asked my H how he thought our vacation was - he said he had a great time. I asked him to rank it among other vacations that we had taken, and he gave it a B+. He asked me what I thought, and I said (excuse my verbiage) I thought it sucked. And he asked why, so I told him how I was feeling - what I had expected - that it wasn't anybody's fault (maybe even more my fault than his), I just wished it would have been different - more loving than bickering. And it wasn't all bickering, but I guess that's what I focused on - I guess it was my perception, I don't know if it was warped or what - but my H thought things went great. But I gave the vacation a C - average, nothing spectacular.

I then asked my H to name five things that were good about the trip - his number one answer was that he got to spend it with me. I melted.

I guess I finally realized that we may not have a perfect marriage - but we're trying.

Remorse, Again - 5 ½ Months After DDay

But, I'm having those feelings all over again - that I'm worthless, that I don't know why my H still loves me - even after the affair, even after I told him that our vacation sucked.

When you're younger, you always try to think about who you will be when you grow up, what you'll be doing . . .Well, I don't really like the person I've become, or the type of person I represent.

Now, I realize that I don't really like who I am, what I did. I cry most of the time - instead of laugh. I'm irritable and moody - not loving or lovable. I make no positive contributions to my life or anyone else's. My H deserves better than me, the world could do without me. (Have you noticed that the pity party has started?)

The Freakin’ Plates - 6 Months After DDay

Lately, I've been trying to do nice things for my H - buying him little things, calling him, e-mailing him. . .trying to do my share of rebuilding our marriage. But he can get into bad moods, too, and the other night he wanted me to move so that he could get some plates out for dinner. . .And I said that the plates in the dishwasher are clean, let me get two out of there. . .I figured, hey no sense getting out new plates then putting away more plates. . .They were all clean, right. . .call me lazy. . .but he just looked at me with this disgusted look. . .Mind you, I have been trying really hard to change and not be so selfish. . .and I was in a really good mood - for once, those seem hard to come by, at least in the early stages. . .But anyway, no thank you for getting the plates out, nothing. . .that didn't bother me, but I could tell he wasn't happy . . .because if you don't do it his way, well, you just aren't doing it right. . .I don't want to sound mean, but we got into a little tiff - about freakin plates!

That led to me thinking, what did I do wrong, do you still love me, are you always going to love me. . .For a WS, I think we, in the back of our minds are still worried that our Hs haven't really forgiven us - that if it were so easy for us to have an affair (especially since I wasn't looking for one) then when I'm a monster, or get cranky. . .will he say "that's it, that's enough." It scares me to think that he would leave me. . .but it's a very real fear. . .I think mainly because I haven't actually forgiven myself and that maybe - even though he's always been faithful to me - I could stand to lose him. . .That I did this horrible thing and a plate or a look could send him over the edge and packing. . .

Coming To My Senses? - 7 Months After DDay

I guess for me. . .it has been 3 months since absolute no contact, it's been over 6 months since I ended the affair. . .and in all honesty, I finally see and realize that I never loved the OM - it was an infatuation - it was someone making me feel special, making me feel attractive, making me feel happy. . .Yeah, I guess he was meeting some of my needs, whatever they were at the time. . .but now, after three months of no contact, I really can see the relationship for what it was - it wasn't love.

Sometimes, I feel like we take each other for granted, but you know I would rather be working on my marriage (to the greatest guy in the world) than maintaining contact with the OM. . .My H really is my best friend and I cannot imagine my life without him in it. . .Sometimes, it takes that realization for the WS to break out of the fog. . .For me, I finally decided that I could not hurt my H anymore, that I had to give 100% to my marriage, and after 6 months, things have gotten better.

The affair is nothing but an illusion of happiness and that true happiness comes from within.

I myself am a WS spouse, and sometimes I lash out at my H, and at times it seems like I am one huge blob of irritableness, insensitivity, selfishness, and negativity. I feel like a walking nightmare sometimes. . .

There are days I just want to quit my job and sell coconuts on the beach - but deep down I know that will never happen.

More Revelations - 8 Months After DDay

At the time, I knew my H was a loving and patient person. But, now, after 7 months, I am finally starting to really appreciate what he has gone through, for "us." And we're finally starting to meet each others' needs -instead of my H just trying to meet my needs.

I'm learning and growing too. I cannot change the past - I'm just learning to live with it. But, if a Genie came along and granted me one wish - it would be that this whole thing never would have happened. So, I consider the affair a mistake - cause if I had to do it over again, I would have chosen not to have one.

But for me, the affair brought out everything that was "ugly" in me as far as my character was concerned. I lied more and cheated more than I ever thought possible. I hurt and caused pain beyond what I thought humanly possible. Yes, I am a better person today than I was during the affair. But the credit doesn't go to the OM, to my H, or even to me. For me, the fact that I am a "better" person today - well, the credit belongs to God.

Remorse, Again and June Cleaver - 8 Months After DDay

I'm doing okay I guess. I have days were I feel really upbeat and then there are days I just feel blah. The past few days I've been pretty blah. Lately, I guess I've just been thinking too much.

I guess I've just been thinking a lot about how much time I have wasted in this whole affair mess - I don't know. I think it's a whole new level of remorse - not as severe, but different. And I know, I can't change the past, I need to rejoice in today - but today, I just regret the time that I have missed out on.

I KNOW it's stupid so don't get mad at me - I just feel like "what kind of mother would I make anyway?" I'm not exactly June Cleaver. . .And I think about how children are a blessing from God, and maybe, well, maybe I just don't deserve that kind of blessing now.

Tis the Season To Be Jolly - 9 Months After DDay

This past weekend, my H and I went to two Christmas Parties - one was being held by a mutual friend and one was being held primarily by one of my friends. We went to both, but on both nights of the parties, it took all I had to get myself together and to get myself into a "social" mood.

No one knows about my A - except for me, my H and the OM So, whenever I go into a social situation with friends, I always feel like I'm keeping this dark, nasty secret - that on top of all the bad feelings I've been having lately, well, throw alcohol into the mix - and I'm just a disaster waiting to happen.

In fact, last night I sat in the living room and just cried my eyes out while my H put up our Christmas tree. I didn't even have the energy this year to get a tree, and I always have a tree - even make a big event out of decorating it.

All WSs have their crosses to bear - mine is learning to forgive myself, and it's been very very hard. If I don't watch it or shake out of those "remorseful" periods, I am no better of a recovered WS than someone who is still involved in an affair.

I think the one thing that has helped my H and I get through this is open and honest communication. And I guess, for me at least, that my H would just sit in silence with me if I didn't feel like talking, he would ask questions, he would ask follow-up, probing questions to get at how I was feeling, but the most important thing was that he was willing to listen to what I had to say and at least try to understand where I was coming from.

I mean, he doesn't know what I'm going through - or what I went through - or why it happened, but he listens with an open mind. It's kind of like putting antiseptic on a wound, at first all this honest communication stings, but I think it has helped us to heal. My H has never once berrated me - even though I know I have hurt him and I know I can be frustrating at times. He never gave up on me - and I guess that's what really mattered in the end.

The Idealist - Where Were You a Year Ago? - 10 Months After DDay

I'm a Christian, and while I haven't been a good example of Christian fortitude in the past, I guess my relationship with God has become stronger. So, now, when I read the posts about what people wish for the OP (and I think it should also be said about the WS, too) - no matter how horrible the OP/WS has been, I guess I just get "sad" to hear all this anger and bitterness. I'm a very introspective person - like you probably couldn't tell- but I think a lot about everything. I'm not saying that people shouldn't come here and vent. In fact I think everyone has a right to be angry, sad, hurt, whatever by what is happening to them. But, at this point in my recovery, it's just sad that there has to be so much anger and bitterness. Again, perfectly normal and probably okay to feel that way - but when that anger or bitterness makes people say ugly things - I don't know - I am in no way judging people at all - but it just makes me sad.

It does feel good to know that I'm not just shooting blanks - that maybe something I have said has touched someone - anyone. You all have been a blessing to me as well.

What I've Learned - 11 Months(totally plagiarized from a response given to me by Just Learning)

In one year [i] have taken [my] marriage down to its bedrock and found that it was firmly set on bedrock not sifting sand.

In one year [i] have learned that [my] H loves [me] more than he can say or show.

In one year [i] have learned that despite temptation [i] do love [my] H.

In one year [i] have learned to appreciate the good qualities of [my] H.

In one year your H has learned to appreciate the good qualities in you.

In one year [we] both have learned something that many people never learn. That people love and are good to one another not because they are perfect but in spite of their imperfections.

In one year [we] both have learned how to take a marriage to a new depth.

In one year [we] have learned that the future is not that predictable so do the best with the present that you can.

In one year [we] have learned not to forget. So [we won’t] ever forget what [we] have learned.

The reason this year was a success is because [my H and I] refused to let it be a failure."

To all my friends at Marriagebuilders, especially Just Learning, I thank God every day for guiding me to this site. All of the caring people, all of the sharing of ideas, all of the warmth that has come through to me through your responses, well, it’s made life in my little corner of the world a little easier and a little sweeter than when I started.

I will never be able to put into words how much all of you mean to me, and I cannot adequately express my sincere appreciation for the words of encouragement, words of honesty, and words of understanding. There were a thousand times I was ready to give up or give in - but you all wouldn’t let me, my H wouldn't let me. And, all I can say to everyone here is “thank you from the bottom of my heart.” I think my H and I are going to be just fine.

In April, I plan to do the offical one-year post. My H also agreed to post with me - only the second time he has done so.

Anyway - to anyone who read through this - congratulations - this was my LONGEST post, but not my last

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*LINK HERE* [color:"red"] see Dr Harley deliver his message about marriage [/color]

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Thanks, Dr Harley from the bottom of my mended heart


Dear Dr. Harley

I arrived at this website a broken man, almost three years to the day. I was loveless, hopeless, Godless. My every assumption about God and man were smashed. It was d-day. My baby was in an affair.

By some miracle I found this site. While many other sites provided summary info - trailers for the meat of the book or course that the site was intended to help sell, the MB basic concepts provided me with a thorough resource to give me a shred of hope that I might just be able to effect the situation positively.

I read those basic concepts and many caring folks here who knew MB well helped me to apply them in my situation.

I bought "surviving an affair " ( £7.99 GBP from Amazon for anyone interested) and found it shed a little light on the details of the basic principles I had learned so very well.

Within two months I was in a rigorous plan A, I had exposed to OMs GF and the affair was being shot to pieces like tin can at a BB shoot.

By the end of 2004 my family was together and on a fairly loving vacation. God Knows we still had far to go, but the transformation was enormous. OM had become a hateful irrelevance as opposed to my Squid's "soul mate". Squid had become a frightened , regretful FWW, not a raving WS.

My kids were becoming more stable once more.

I was stronger and more confidant than in years.

My total revenue to your organization so far, Sir, I am sorry to say was only £7.99 - the price of "surviving...". * blush *

Since then, my family's life has transformed. Our home is now a box filled with people who love each other very much and who have tools to handle issues.

We are happy, yet hopeful of even more yield from our application of MB in our marriage in future.

In the last 3 years I bought "buyers, renters and freeloaders", "lovebusters" and " his needs / her needs" also from Amazon. The extra cost of these was approximately £30. Once again they shed more light on principles already generously explained on your website in basic principles and Q&A.

I sit here a few days short of the three year anniversary of D-day with an enviable marriage, great self confidence and a toolkit of life skills that cost me, in total £37.99 to MB.

I could cry in gratitude sir. My studies have led me to be asked by my pastor to offer a marrigebuilding course for our community via our little church. What a turnaround for that broken man who first came to you three years ago !

I wanted to tell you my most heartfelt "thank you" for your care in sharing so much with hurting people free of charge. I thank you for rescuing my marriage and my life by proxy.

And I offer up a prayer of thanks for you, and Marriagebuilders in the hope that you may long continue to support us all.

And I apologize for my contributing only £37.99 in return for all this wonderful blessing !

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The following passages are from the book “Pulling your own strings” by Dr Wayne W. Dyer. My hope is that new BS’s on these boards who feel unwilling, unsure and/or afraid to apply effective MB principles (like exposure) to help bust up their WS’s A’s, will find this thread helpful and will give them the necessary courage to apply and take these steps. On different occasions, I’ve already posted this to two BS’s, but I thought it would be a good idea to put it on a new thread where more people can read it. Here it is:

A NEW LOOK AT STRENGTH

Being strong in no way implies being powerful, manipulative, or even forceful. By operating from strength, I mean leading your life from the twin positions of worth and effectiveness.

You are always a worthy, important human being, and there is never any reason to conduct yourself, or allow others to pull or push you, in any direction in which your basic merit as a human being is challenged. Moreover, in any situation you have a choice between (1) being effective and reaching your goals, or (2) being effective and, ultimately, being restricted from doing what you desire. In most cases – not all, but most – you can be effective, and in all cased, you can operate from the position of your own intrinsic worth as a person.

In dealing with your self-worth, remind yourself that by definition it must come from yourself. You are worthy not because others say so, or because of what you accomplish, or because of your achievements. Rather, you are precious and you say so, because you believe it, and most importantly, because you ACT as if you are worthy.

Being a non-victim starts with the principle of saying and believing that you are valuable, but it is put into practice when you begin behaving as if you are worthwhile. This is the essence of strength, and of course, of not being a victim. You can’t act out of needs to be powerful or intimidating, but you must act from strength which guarantees you will be treated as a worthy person simply because you believe down to your very soul that you do count.

Being effective is not an universal given, as is your own self-esteem. At times you will not attain your goals. Occasionally you will find people irrationally impossible to deal with, or encounter situations where you’ll have to back off or compromise to avoid being further victimized. You can, however, cut these “losses” down to an unavoidable minimum, and more important, you can eliminate totally the emotional upsets of being thwarted now and then.

Being effective simply means you apply all your personal resources and use all available strategies, short of stepping on others, to achieve your objectives. Your own worth and personal effectiveness are the cornerstones of operating from strength.

Keep in mind that a breakdown of the word invalid, meaning a physically weak person, comes out in valid. By living your life from a position of emotional weakness you are not only a loser most of the time, but you virtually invalidate yourself as a person. “But”, “you must ask, “why would I ever do a thing like that to myself?”

FEAR: SOMETHING THAT RESIDES IN YOU

Most of the reasons you’d give yourself for not operating from strength involve some kind of fear of “what will happen if…”. You may even admit that you are often “paralyzed by fear.” But what is it that you think comes from somewhere out of the blue and immobilizes you? If you started on a scavenger hunt today and you were told to bring back a bucket full of fear, you could look forever, but you’d always come home empty-handed. Fear simply does not exist out there in the world. It is something that you do to yourself by thinking fearful thoughts and having fearsome expectations. No one in this world can hurt you unless you allow it, and then of course you are hurting yourself.

You may be victimized because you’ve convinced yourself that some person won’t like you, or that some disaster will befall you, or that there are any of thousands of other excuses, if you do things your way. But the fear is internal, and is supported by a neat little system of thoughts which you cleverly use to avoid dealing directly with your self-imposed dread. You may express these thoughts to yourself in sentences like the following:

I’ll fail
I’ll look stupid
I’m unattractive
I’m not sure
They might hurt me
They might not like me
I’d feel too guilty
I’ll lose everything
They might get mad at me
U might lose my job
God won’t let me into heaven
Something bad will probably happen if I do
I know I’ll feel awful if I say that
I won’t be able to live with myself.

Thoughts like these betray and internal support system and maintain a fear-based personality which keeps you from operating from strength. Every time you reach inward and come up with one of these fear sentences, you’ve consulted your weakness mentality, and the victim stamp will soon be evident on your forehead.

If you have to have a guarantee that everything will be all right before you take a risk, you will never get off first base, because the future is promised to no one. There are no guarantees on life’s services to you, so you’ll have to toss away your panicky thoughts if you want to get what you want out of life. Moreover, almost all your fearful thoughts are purely head trips. The disasters you envision will rarely surface. Remember the ancient sage who said, “I’m an old man, and I’ve had many troubles, most of which have never happened.”

The brilliant English author and lexicographer Samuel Johnson once wrote,

All fear is painful, and when it conduces not to safety, is painful without use – Every consideration, therefore, by which groundless terrors may be removed, adds something to human happiness.

Johnosn’s words are still vital some two hundered years after he wrote them. If your fears are groundless, they are useless, and removing them is indispensable for you happiness.

EXPERIENCE AS AN ANTIDOTE TO FEAR

You cannot learn anything, undermine any fear, unless you are willing to DO something. Doing, the antidote to fear and most self-defeating behavior, is shunned by most victims who operate from weakness. But the maximum of education that makes the most sense to me is:

I hear: I forget
I see: I remember
I Do: I understand

You will never know what it feels like to get rid of a fear until you risk behavior that confronts it. Just as no one can teach you fear, no one can teach you not to be afraid. Your fears are your own unique sensations, and you alone are going to have to challenge them. You just have to get out there, grovel around, fail a lot, try this, change that – in a word, experiment. But can you really imagine that experimenting and experiencing, will decrease your wisdom and chances for success? If you refuse to give yourself the necessary experiences, you are saying to yourself, “I refuse to know”. And refusing to know will make you weak and assure your victimization by others.

You can’t know strengths unless you are willing to test yourself - and if all tests always succeeded, there would be no need for them, so you can’t stop testing whenever you fail. When you get to the point where you are willing to attempt anything that seems worthwhile to YOU (not them, you), then you will understand experience as the antidote to fear. Benjamin Disraeli, the witty nineteenth-century English statesman and author, said it quite succinctly in his earlier writings:

Experience is the child of Thought, and Thought is the child of Action. We cannot learn men from books.

First you think, and then you do, and only thirdly do you know. And that is how you challenge all the timidity that keeps you a victim.

COURAGE: A NECESSARY COMMODITY FOR NON-VICTIMS

Willingness to confront fear is called courage. You will find it very hard to overcome your fears unless you are willing to muster up some valor, even though you will find that you already posses it if you are willing to realize it.

Courage means flying in the face of criticism, relying on yourself, being willing to accept and learn from the consequences of all your choices. It means believing enough in yourself and in living your life as you choose so that you cut the strings whose ends other people hold and use to pull you in contrary directions.

You can make your mental leaps toward courage by repeatedly asking yourself: ”What is the worst thing that could happen to me if…?” When you consider the possibilities realistically, you will almost always find that nothing damaging or painful can happen when you take the necessary steps away from being a knee-jerk victim. Usually you will find that, like a child afraid of the dark, you are afraid of nothing, because nothing is the worst thing that could happen to you. Failing generally means ending up where you started, and while it may not be utopia, it is certainly a situation you can handle. Cora Harris, the American author, said it this say:

The bravest thing you can do when you are not brave is to profess courage and act accordingly.

I like the idea of professing courage, because the important thing to do is act, rather than to try to convince yourself of how brave you are or aren’t at any given moment.

UNDERSTANDING YOUR OPERATING-FROM-WEAKNESS DIVIDENDS

Any time you catch yourself paralyzed by fear – in a world, victimized – ask yourself: “What am I getting out of this?” Your first temptation will be to answer, “Nothing”. But go a little deeper and you’ll ask why people find it easier to be victims than to take strong stances of their own, to pull their own strings.

You can seemingly avoid a lot of risks, avoid ever “putting yourself on the spot”, by simply giving up and letting others take control. If things go badly you can blame whoever is pulling your strings, call them bad names, and neatly avoid your own greater responsibility. At the same time you can conveniently avoid having to change; you are “free” to remain a “good little victim”, getting regular dividends of phony approval from the victimizers of the world.

The payoff of weakness almost all come out of your avoidance of risks. Keep in mind that it is crucial for you to always be appraised of your own reward system, self-defeating though it may be, as you work toward improving the quality of your life in every behavioral and mental dimension.

NEVER PLACE ANYONE’S HEAD ABOVE YOUR OWN

If you are ready to give “operating form strength” a serious go, you will have to stop placing other people above yourself in value and worth. Whenever you give another person more prestige than you give yourself, you have set yourself yup to be victimized.

Strength is a word I used with a great amount of pre-thought. I’ve been careful to define it in explicit terms. Being cantankerous, unruly, obnoxious, deceitful, and the like is not advocated, since it will almost always turn away the very people you want to have help you. I am, of course, supportive of being able to be obnoxious if it is called for on extreme occasions. You just don’t have to be passive or weak as you walk through your life steps, and that is really the fundamental lesson of this chapter. Be a worthy, effective, self-important you, rather than a sniveling permission-seeking victim who believes that everyone is more important than you are.

ISN’T IT IRONIC – PEOPLE RESPECT STRENGTH

If you really want to be respected, take a hard look at those who are so expert at getting respect. You will quickly deduce that you will not gain anyone’s respect, including your own, by operating from weakness. You must set aside the idea that people will not like you if you behave assertively.

Whenever you find yourself standing up for what you believe and wondering what everyone else is thinking, rest assured that if you took a private poll, you would find almost everyone secretly pulling for you, and admiring your attitude of toughness. So not setting your goals according to which ones will win the immediate approval of others may, paradoxically, help you get their approval in the long run – and no one is denying that if feels better to receive approval than to be rejected. It might just be comforting to know that the people whose approval you are most concerned about are much more prone to respect you when you behave from your own convictions than when you simply tag along and do what is expected of you.

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Re: Fishing lessons:A little maintenance helps a lot



Maintaining What We Have

A few years ago my pickup truck was broken into. It was parked in the lot at work, less than 25 feet from the front door. The street out front is a US highway, but is within the city, so is only about 50 feet from where I was parked.

In broad daylight, between 8:00 and 10:00 in the morning, someone popped the door of my truck cap and removed most of what was in the truck. This included over $3000 worth of tools and nearly as much in fishing tackle. Interestingly, they left the fishing rods which were packed into rod tubes to protect them.

The insurance covered the tackle, but not the tools since they were personal tools but used primarily for work. If I did not use them for my job, they all would have been covered. I eventually replaced what I wanted to replace and forgot about the stuff I never really used in the first place, but I had to replace tools first, so spent most of the insurance check on staying gainfully employed.

The crisis for me was that this happened on a Wednesday and I was scheduled to leave on a week long fishing trip on that Friday night. Can’t very well go fishing without any tackle.

The insurance company asked me if I had receipts for all of my stuff. I never even considered keeping them. I bought a Rapala floating minnow lure in Bemidji, MN, a few bags of soft plastic baits in Morris, IL, some flies in Blakeslee, PA and a reel in Thayer, MO. My tackle bag came from Bass Pro Shops in Springfield, MO via mail order and many of the storage boxes from Walmart in Kankakee.

BTW, I do now keep every receipt for every tool and tackle item that I purchase.

But I needed some gear and I needed it now!

I bought a few things at Walmart. Not the kind of stuff I’d usually buy, but enough to get me by for the week. Since it was fall, I didn’t need any of my normal spring pattern stuff and since I wasn’t taking the fly rods, could let that go till later as well.

Then I began calling friends…

I borrowed a couple of reels from one guy and picked them up after work. When I got them home, I found them to be a mess. They had last been used in June while he was in Canada and this was October. They had gotten wet on his trip and now were almost unusable.

I took them apart carefully, cleaned each and every piece, replaced some damaged parts that I happened to have on hand and lubricated everything with high quality materials. I respooled each with brand new fishing line and continued preparation for my trip.

When I returned the reels after my trip had ended, the guy actually complained that I had used Berkley line instead of his usual Stren. I thanked him for the loan, and took him a spool of Stren on the following Monday at work.

Each winter I spend hours working on preparing my gear for the coming fishing season. I clean the rods, replacing damaged eyes and marginal thread-wraps that hold the components together. I dismantle, clean, lube and respool every reel. I take everything out of its bag, box or hiding place, clean it, fix it or replace it. Rust inhibitor is used on anything that might corrode. I rebuild lures, replacing hooks and split rings. I sometimes even repaint lures if they need it.

I next take inventory, check to see what I used the most of the previous season and make a list so I don’t get surprised by missing something and not having what I need when I hit the water in the spring.

But this winter, things were different. Because of my health issues, I couldn’t work on all that stuff. I made a minimal effort to get things in order and the reels cleaned and repaired, but left much of the work I normally do undone.

The first time I got to go fishing this year, I paid for not having maintained my tackle during the winter months. I was missing things I would have liked to have had. I missed the hookset more than once on fish I should have landed, but lost because of old rusty hooks. One of my reels gave me fits to the point that I nearly threw it in the lake.

I broke off on three fish in the first day because I had a small nick in the eye on my favorite spinnerbait rod. I also lost three spinnerbaits in the process. I can never replace the missed fish and can do nothing about my choices now, but I have since spent more time fixing and less time fishing than might have been had I done my maintenance during the off-season.

While out fishing I often see people that have equipment that is in worse shape than things I have replaced because they were worn out. I see people lose fish after fish because the line hasn’t been replaced since the reel was new ten years ago. I see people fumbling in tackle boxes, filled with a jumble of rusted hooks and lures. I see people with broken rods, trying to tape them back together with duct tape while out fishing. Of course if they do hook a large fish, the duct tape is the first thing to fail and they end up with a fist full of tangled line on a still broken fishing rod.

And these are not your usual bank anglers with $15.00 Kmart specials. I’m referring to people with $200.00 rods, $250.00 reels and sate of the art equipment that nearly any serious fisherman would trade his soul to own. If they just took care of what they already have, they wouldn’t have to try to replace things and fix what’s broken in a make do fashion when they should be enjoying their time fishing.

Our relationships too require maintenance and each one of us is responsible for our own things. We tend to let things go until they can no longer serve their intended purpose and then try to make do with less than we want.

Both marriage partners are responsible for the condition of the relationship. If something needs attention, it is up to us to see that it gets fixed. When we see a problem, it should be our goal to solve it in a timely and adequate manner. We should take care of each other and not let the marriage deteriorate to the point where it can no longer make us happy.

The tools we can use to prevent our marriage from becoming worthless are found in Dr Harley’s Basic Concepts and include Extraordinary Care, Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement. We need to also avoid damage to the relationship by stopping Love Busters while making sure nothing is missing by meeting each other’s primary Emotional Needs.
Extraordinary Care keeps us focused on the things that really matter. Radical Honesty requires us to share our thoughts and feelings with our spouse and the Policy of Joint Agreement ensures that neither one can selfishly take from the relationship at the other’s expense.

If we take care of what we have, we can then enjoy it by a quiet stream or a beautiful beach as the sun sets and the day nears it’s end.

And if someone steals what we have, we quickly discover that there are some things that simply cannot be replaced.

Tight Lines!

Mark

Edited to add: Dedicated to my Dad, who not only taught me to fish, but also what a committed marriage was all about.

I miss him!

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Musings From Mark1952.
AKA: Mark's Rant


When a BS first comes here, they usually begin by explaining their situation and telling how they found out about their WS’s A.

Then they usually ask something like this:

“What should I do?”

Being Marriage Builders, first responses are normally geared toward helping them recover their marriage and rebuild trust. That is after all, what MB principals are geared toward.

The problem is, that isn’t usually what the BS is seeking. What they are really looking for is a magic bullet, something that will bring the A to a screaming halt, blow away all of the fog, cause their WS to fall at their feet and beg for forgiveness.

Subsequent posts usually refer to how to MAKE the WS stop seeing OP or MAKE OP leave the WS alone or MAKE everything OK.



TO ALL BETRAYED SPOUSES:

You can’t MAKE anything happen.
There is NO magic bullet.
Recovery will NOT be instant gratification.

The fog does NOT usually go away until NC has been established and has gone on for quite a while, sometimes it may take as long as the A itself lasted.

ALL YOU CAN DO IS:

Make changes to yourself that show the WS what you can be and what is possible.
Make the home, with the BS, a safe place for the WS to be and a better place than the A.
Request, not demand that the A end.
Exhibit care, compassion and concern for WS’s well being.
Protect the rest of the family from WS’s actions as much as within your power.
Protect your and family finances as much as is legally possible.
Expose the A to anyone within the circle of influence of WS and OP, including OP’s BS.

YOU SHOULD NOT: (as much as is within your power)

Finance the A in any way. (This includes rent at another place, car payments or paying for babysitting so the WS can meet with OP)
Allow the children to have any contact with OP.
Discuss the state of the relationship and expect a commitment from the WS.
Attend MC as long as there is contact between WS and OP. (WS often considers this as a “good faith” offer that absolves them of responsibility for the break-up of the M since they can say “I tried MC and it still didn’t work)
Trust the WS to tell the truth about anything.
Attempt to use the threat of exposure as leverage. Exposure is a good thing but it should not be used as a threat and must happen without warning to be of any real value.
Leave the marital home or ask the WS to leave before the beginning of Plan B.
Threaten divorce or file for divorce unless you wish to end the M. (except in the case of having to file as a means of protecting marital assets from an actively WS.)
Make threats, attempt to coerce or belittle the WS.
Attempt to implement any MB practice or principal other than unilaterally. (You can’t make him/her do what is right while they are wayward.)
Simply sit around, worry about the A and wallow in pity for yourself. (Do something with the kids and ask WS to join you or go out with friends)
Beg, plead or cry to the WS.

IF THE AFFAIR ENDS AND WS BEGINS TO RETURN TO THE MARRIAGE:

Avoid spending all of your time together trying to force recovery or fixing relationship issues.
Do NOT bring up the A repeatedly in an attempt at revenge for anything the WS does that is not related to the A or even the A itself.
Do NOT belittle the WS to anyone for any reason.
Do NOT exhibit trust of the WS except where trustworthiness has been shown.
Do NOT reward the WS merely for ending the A.
Do NOT agree to simply “move forward and forget the past.” (The issue must be addressed, though not to the exclusion of daily life)

DO spend more time together doing fun things than working on the relationship.
DO show compassion and care for the S and support them through withdrawal from OP.
DO continue to avoid all Love Busters, especially DJs and AOs.
DO continue to monitor WS’s activities to ensure NC is ongoing and the A has not just gone underground. (Talking about snooping here)
DO continue to implement MB principals unilaterally until such time as the WS begins to participate actively in recovery.
DO seek professional help in order to approach the issues surrounding the A and its aftermath in an environment that is safe for both you and WS. Even simply having a witness to discussions can help to prevent heated arguments from ensuing.

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[color:"red"]A successful marriage isn't finding the right person-it's being the right person.

Sometimes we must let go of the GOOD to reach out and take hold of the BEST.

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"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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SCHOOLBUS' LIST SEEMS APPROPRO FOR THIS 3300th view:

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Re: [color:"blue"] If you've been MARRIED for 30 Plus Years, what's your MAGIC? [/color]
#3259619 - Thu Jun 14 2007 05:41 PM


Short answer: I resisted the urge to kill him when he sorely needed it.......JK!!!!!!!

Real answer:

1-We worked as a team toward common goals most of the time. We share a vision of where we want to be in the future, a common idea of what and where we want to go together, and we work together to get there. (We POJA'd when POJA wasn't cool.)

2-We have always accepted who the other person was and never tried to change one another.

3-We do not, ever, make disparaging remarks about one another to other people. We also do not call one another bad names, even during arguments.

4-We tell each other that we love each other, frequently, and do things so that the other person knows of our love.

5-We have mutual respect for each other's minds and bodies, as well as emotions and needs.

6-We take care of each other when one of us is sick. This includes bringing medicine, helping with dr. visits, and all the rest - including cleaning up messes if needed! You can never know how much you can feel loved until you are really sick, and someone takes good care of you when you really need to be taken care of.

7-We admit it when we are wrong. And apologize when we are stupid. Which, seems to occur frequently.

8-We make sure we laugh together.

9-We are gentle when we need to be, rough when it's called for, and silly the rest of the time. Most of the time, it's not hard to be silly, given the vast amount of stupid things we seem to get ourselves involved in doing - or that just OCCUR around here. For example, right now, the dog is snoring, so any number of puns could just explode momentarily from that!

10-We try always to come from a place of love. This allows us to remember to allow for forgiveness, gentleness, tranquility, smiles, tenderness, intimacy, and friendship.

There's probably more.

But the formula basically has worked for 32 years.

Despite his affair, I love him. It has been difficult to work back to a place to believing and understanding that even during his affair he never stopped loving me. He lost his way, caught up in his own fears of aging, a sense of distance from me, and loss of closeness to me that our own errors in maintaining vigilance over our love resulted in. We both can see what havoc is wrought when our guard is let down, and we fail to invest our time and attention in our relationship with one another.

Never again will that mistake be made. We are now much more aware of the "magic", which is really

hard work
attention to one another
vigilance
love
dedication
focus



So, no magic. Remember - there ain't no fantasy, a marriage is what YOU make it.

SB

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Re: [color:"blue"] I'm signing off (Thread by rlt)[/color] [Re: Ace_in_bucket]
#3264458 - 06/23/07 09:49 AM


Quote
When/if David or other men-friends contact you, try to picture in your mind your marriage as a helium filled balloon. Every contact might have the potential to be a tiny pin-hole. If they contact on a day you are vulnerable and 'trigger' back accidently, you could allow the pin to pierce a teeeeny hole in the balloon's fiber.



Will it deflate immediately? Not necessarily....but if the contact blossoms because of your vulnerability and the pin hole grows, it could over time.



Our MC said that continuously exposing one's self to factors of risk (knowing that such affects could be devastating) is foolish.



By picturing these innocent contacts as potential risks to your progress in your recovery, you might be able to view them in such a way that helps change your mindset regarding how innocent such contact actually might be.



BRILLIANT

-------- [color:"red"]
I smile <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> because I am your friend!

I laugh <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> because there is nothing you can do about it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> [/color]




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Quote
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Here's one of my old favorites:
2ofakind's:WS who needs to find themselves

BWHAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OMGosh, I am ROTFLMAO at this post, Trix....freaking hilarious!!!


I cannot thank you enough for posting this link. I sooooooooo needed a thoroughly deep belly laugh and this did it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Happily married to HerPapaBear



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