Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 6 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
FOR THOSE WHO WONDER WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE OW EVER DECIDED TO MAKE AN 'APOLOGY' - THIS IS THE LEVEL OF SINCERITY AN OW PROVIDES - NOT MUCH!

The following was written by Bugsmom:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Well, I think I've bombed everyone's threads so I guess it's time to give some details on my own.

Chai - I am fairly certain that the 'trigger' for the Ho was finding out that I was on jury duty last week with a friend of hers. I'm sure he told her about Drac's latest conquest who works where Drac & I work. The Ho used to work with her, too! They were supposedly 'friends' at one time so the true trigger is that she is probably finally experiencing a bit of her own medicine & found out how bad it is.

I think she was hoping to get me to join with her in a joint Drac bashing bonding moment. Yeah,,, like that would EVER happen! I have all of you fine folks to help me out when I feel like bashing him! ha! As if she thinks that she doesn't deserve to be right there beside him in it ALL.

So, here's a bit more detail. It's kind of jumbled up but it's so hard to remember the order in which anything was said. She said a lot of it over and over again, as if she was going to convince me she was 'right'.

I'll try to put 'her' stuff in RED

My cell phone rang a little after 8 but I missed the call. The caller i.d. said "private". I didn't think anything of it, because sometimes V's # comes up that way, depending on where he is traveling. It rang again about 8:40 and I answered.

She told me who she was & I asked her WHY she was calling me

She just went off talking non-stop -= said she had never thought in a million years that she would ever be calling me. She'd 'learned' things over the last few months since "we broke up" and then just recently and she just HAD to call.

She said, "I'm sorry,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but you need to understand how terribly I was lied to!!"
And so it went for the bulk of the conversation. She was "Sorry, but,,,,,,,,,,"

I finally told her that any apology followed by the word 'but' is not an apology, it is a self-justification. That by saying that, she is not taking full responsibility for HER actions and that her supposed apology means nothing to me.

Here's some of the things I recall her saying -

I never dreamed I'd ever call you

I've found out so much over these last few months and recently,,,,I felt I needed to do this

I'm not the kind of person who would EVER EVER EVER do something like this BUT I was lied to!!
(this was said over & over again)

He came into X Place of Work telling everyone that he was in the middle of a divorce

I asked around and I was told you guys were OVER
- I told her this was a bunch of crap and that she CHOSE to acknowledge what she wanted to acknowledge and to ignore everything else. She was only justifying her actions AGAIN

I am a good person, ask anyone who knows me - - again, she said that over and over

I'm a CHRISTIAN

I've been in your shoes - - I told her she could NEVER have done what she did if that were true

If you had only confronted me, this never would have gone on - She said that several times until I finally told her that was enough of that because she isn't going to put ANY of HER actions on ME.

I 'wish' that you guys had worked things out - that he would have stayed with you but he kept telling me how it was over
I thought that by calling you this might bring you some healing, too - - I told her I don't need anything from her in order to 'heal'.

I needed to do this to heal myself - I'm pretty sure I told her I didn't really care anything about what she needed

You don't 'know' me

I don't want to 'open old wounds'

You can hate me if you want, you can say whatever you want, but I'm not a bad person

I'm not one of "those" women

I was vulnerable

I was lied to!!

I thought you would be more "open" with me

I am sorry,,,,,,,,,,, BUT

You have no idea the lies that I was told

One of the reasons I left him was that I'd found a letter that you'd written to him at the end,,,,and I figured out how much I'd been lied to
- - I asked her, "let me guess, you also found out that you weren't the 'only one' didn't you?" She would not answer. I'm pretty sure this had to be my Plan B letter. Intersting that he kept it??


I "know" you sent me 2 letters,, it HAD to be from you because the first one in Feb 2007 said that he was still sleeping with his wife - - - now this is after saying she had NO idea that we were still together at all - - I don't know what letters she is referring to, but I have a feeling a close friend of mine may have done that without telling me but I don't know yet for sure.

"Looking back, going thru this did turn out to be a 'good thing' for me" - to which I replied, well forgive me if I don't give a [censored]

"Aren't you better off now? Aren't you???" - - I told her that was none of her business. She didn't care anything about me or my kids or my life before, the last thing I was going to do is share with her now

I want you to know that one of the reasons I had to do this is because I care for Ladybugs SO MUCH - -at this point I was ready to go through the phone and rip out her throat. If she cared so much for Ladybugs, she wouldn't have helped break up her parents. There's a lot of things she could have said (and did say) that hurt me personally, but when she wanted to bring my kids into the conversation she overstepped. It was right after this that I put an end to the call - - I didn't hang up on her but made it clear I was not going to discuss anything further with her.

She said she's wasn't surprised to learn about him & the latest Ho,,,but of course she doesn't care at all & thinks they are both messed up. It cracked me up when she said that she is not friends with Ho2,,,hasn't talked to her since she left X Place of Work but "it's not that I dislike her or anything". GEEZ, what a 2 faced bee-atch. Can't even admit to her me, her new best friend, that she doesn't like Ho2.

I laughed out loud when she told me she was a 'Christian', to which she took great offense. I told her several times, "Your actions speak for the kind of person you are".

I told her that I do not require anything from her to 'heal' and that I'd put her out of my life/thoughts a long time ago. When she said she didn't want to open old wounds, I replied, "Well it's to f'ing late now".

I mentioned at one point about not knowing what would have happened if I hadn't finally cut him off last August. The silence was deafening,,,,,,,,,,,so I continued and said, "Oh, I guess you didn't know that it was ME that cut him off? And you probably had no idea that it went on until August of last year did you? Hmmm, HURTS doesn't it?" Of course she denied that it hurt, but I didn't let her off the hook - - - I told her that I KNOW that it hurts "take it from someone who knows first hand".


She just kept going on and on. I finally asked, "Are you done yet? Have you said what you needed to say? Do you FEEL better? Because this is doing nothing for me"

I told her she will ALWAYS be one of 'those' women in my mind. She wanted me to talk to her about the 'lies' he'd told me. I told her that it is in the past and not something I was going to discuss with her. Yes I was lied to, but I've dealt with that. She made/chose her own path and she was going to have to live with it.

I did tell her that they BOTH bear responsibility in this. Drac did fact lie to BOTH of us. I've dealt with that. She chose her path and she has to deal with her own choices.

I said, "What do you expect from me? You participated in the utter destruction of my life and are responsible in the tearing apart of my family and the damage it has done to my kids. How can you possibly expect me to do any more than I have already? I've listened to you and I have been gracious. More gracious than what you deserve."

That's as much as I can recall right now. I don't know if it's really done me any good to put it into words or not. There's tons more things she said, all of which was pretty incredible to believe she was saying to me.

I'm just so PISSED. How DARE she? Talk about being blind sided. Last month I get called by her name, then I find out that he's seeing Ho2 - - and no one had the decency to give me a heads up so I wouldn't be blind sided at work, and now this?! Plus, it goes back to how DARE he in the first place? He pulls this [censored] and here I am STILL bearing the brunt of his actions and he doesn't have a clue or give a [censored]. HE should be the one having to deal with this crap, not me.

Yesterday I hadn't felt so horrible in a long, long time. I've felt sick to my stomach, I had a horrific headache, and my neck/shoulders feel like the are made of steel. I didn't sleep much, and when I did, I had nightmares.

The only reason for her call is that she wanted me to tell her she is not a bad person. She didn't and doesn't and never has cared about me or how I feel/felt. It was all about her. Not surprising,,,it took a pure selfish [censored] to do what she did and she sure hasn't changed.

So,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,that's the story for what it's worth.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
link to original thread

Last edited by Pepperband; 11/26/08 01:53 PM.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Pio nails one

Quote
There are three solutions to problems in a marriage:
1) live with it
2) fix it
3) divorce from it

Affairs are not an option.

Pithy and true!

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Original by Chrisner
link to original post


Maybe they could just make a template of the wayward script for newbies where you just strike through the parts that don't apply.


Hi. I am the BW BH who just recently had my D-Day last week month Thanksgiving Christmas Valentines Day Hanukkah Easter St Patrick’s Day.

For a little background we have been married for 7 14 21 years and have 1 2 3 4 5 6 wonderful children.

The marriage has been great good rocky stale lacked passion near sexless for the past couple years but I never could have believed he she could commit adultery.

One night after working late he she came home and said “I love you but I am not in love with you” “I have never been in love with you” "We never should have gotten married” “I need space” “You’re never there for me” “We have grown apart” “You’re too controlling” “We got married too young”

I got suspicious that night and checked his her cell phone. On it I found 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1,000 text messages and 100 200 300 400 500 600 700 800 900 1,000 calls all to the same number. When I called the number, the OM OW answered and I recognized him her as my best friend our next door neighbor his her coworker

When I confronted him her in the morning with this he she replied, “I can’t believe you invaded my privacy” “You’re crazy, he she is just a friend!” "I can’t ever trust you again”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
rotflmao



Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
I've been cooking on this thread for a few days. 2Much2Lose, Tully, Bestfriend, and many more of you are dealing with the same issue.

A number of you have been called on the carpet by well-meaning folks here and in your family for stepping into the Plan B process. They don't understand the purpose of Plan B.

I've been reading "As A Man Thinketh" by James Allen. Google this title and you can actually download the book free from asamanthinketh.net

In particular, I love this quote for betrayed spouses:

Quote
A person cannot directly choose his circumstances, but he can choose his thoughts, and so indirectly, yet surely, shape his circumstances.

This is the greatest gift of Plan B.

Before you removed yourself from the drama equation you were in what we call on the farm "a manure pit". Everywhere, the stench of cheating filled your nostrils - your thoughts and breath were consumed by getting the smell to stop!

Well, that doesn't lead you to think of how to better yourself, your life, and it's difficult to think of anything but the past - back when the marriage didn't stink!

Your wayward spouse accuses you of being the cause of the stinky marriage. But there's only one thing that causes this kind of stench - a wayward heart. And wayward hearts attract stenchy affair partners because they can't tell that they are the source of the stench.

But here's the big truth....

It's not the wayward spouse who is your primary problem.

....

...

..

.


Yes - you read that right. It's yourself. The lacking of any sense of self-worth... by degrees. You believe their blame that you harmed the marriage and they were on their way out well before affair person came around... Yeah right. When it's their own SBDs (silent but deadlies) sabotaging the sanctity of their vows.

If you are to become all that you were meant to be in a marriage, you must be whole, all by yourself.

Plan B is a breath of fresh air. You can think of how to better your life a lot easier when it doesn't stink so bad your eyes water. However, a partial Plan B doesn't accomplish this.

The most impressive moments in the lives of those who share their Plan B progress here – Mimi stands out when she put her dream house up for sale. Rinn stands out when she moved to the shelter. Charlotte when she hired Shiny. And most recently, Tully - yes - you - though you've been battered by your mother in law (a vicarious beating from your husband, actually) you took the Mimi approach and left the dream house.

How would you respond to people if you absolutely knew that you were worth the fidelity requirement?

How would you respond to your wayward trying to break down your Plan B?

Mimi got to that point - she absolutely knew her worth and she would no longer tolerate life with a double-minded man. Her knowledge of her own value is the reason she is such an inspiration here.

Rinn - you know what you thought of yourself before you left the marital home - you left, trusting in the words and knowledge of others, as well as that finality knowledge - you couldn't go on one more day under the threat of verbal, sexual, physical and emotional abuse.

So Plan Bs in progress and Plan B Wanna-B-B-ers, listen up!

Share on this thread who you are - ideal - without your WS defining you. And then read it every day like an affirmation. Remember who you are - sons and daughters of a heavenly father who loves you; find that perfection and let your thoughts lead you to live in the solution instead of the problem.

Bob Proctor wrote a book I've had on my shelf for years. He says:

Quote
You're either living in the problem or you're living in the solution.

Plan B is the way to live in the solution. Let the wayward clean up the stench!

by KaylaAndy link to original thread

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996

link to original thread

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ***** ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Today I was cleaning the shed.. well one of them .. out to get out our Christmas lights and the old tree and stockings. I came across my little boys stocking .. my dead sons stocking. Little Peter.

And the memories came flooding back. Oh God it still hurts. And pinned in it is a little loyalty pin... the regimental pin his dad had given him so long ago it seems. Loyalty. I remember.

What do you mean, 'Pack for a trip? We're going to go somewhere?" I asked my new H. "no" he said "just me."

We'd just returned from our honeymoon when it began: the tug-of-war over my loyalties between wife and the Army.

Over the next 18 months, he'd driven the eight-hour round trip every weekend in order to learn and push himself to join the SAS. It was a demanding schedule--but one my H, the Army and his direct boss, expected. And he'd always complied.

Now that I was married, my H expected me to get with the drill, while all I wanted was to enjoy our first weekends together as a couple, setting up house, and delighting in the newness of it all. It was our first fight, and I lost.

As we neared each weekend, I'd withdraw and quietly endure his absence. Instead of opening a place for me in our new 'family', he had defaulted to his shared history with Army mates, often leaving me out of conversations in our own home.

One evening during dinner at our house, I spoke up to be part of the discussion and asked his Sgt a question. He answered--to my H! As if I wasn't there. After all I was only 'the little woman'.

The evaluation testing lasted weeks... all of that time he was on the other side of the country. After graduation he was "promoted" to a full-time position on the Regiments staff. As his commitments grew and the Army demanded more of his time, I began to see the Army as my enemy and the cause of our growing separateness. The gulf between us hardened into predictable patterns of isolation. A polite hug. A few pleasantries. And then a quick dismissal.
It wasn't done for a wife to question the Army.

Tug-of-War

We moved . Often. Until we finally ended up in our home town.. the Regiments home. A number of years into our marriage, my H pulled a doozy. He volunteered for a 'overseas operation'! While he was excited, I was having "issues" with the whole thing.

"Hi, honey," he beamed as he walked into the kitchen. JJ and Liz, my four- and three-year-olds... boy & a girl ... made a mad rush for his kneecaps. Meanwhile, I was juggling our two-month-old boy, Peter, on one hip while I stirred the bubbling pasta sauce. Believe me when I tell you that if we didn't shop on the base we couldn't afford it. Those days the money was poor for a military family.

I forced a weary smile..... been doing that a lot lately "Hi. Can you hand me the colander?"

It was two baths and a nursing later that evening before he broached the topic of his intended trip. Fire flashed in my eyes I swear "Are you crazy? You're going to leave me for F*** knows how long with three small children while you gallivant across the world? I don't think so."

But he wouldn't budge this time. HAH!! name me the time he ever did!! And I dreaded this seemingly continuous tug of war over his duty to his family and his duty to the Army. I told him 'it's too long for me to deal with the kids alone."

With a surprised, hard look on his face, he pressed me to reconsider, "If you were being a strong and supportive partner, you would recognize how this business requires personal sacrifice!" When I replied to say I was his wife not a troop leader and that I had sacrificed a lot it went down like a lead balloon.

Knowing he wouldn't back down, I decided to hold the line as the supportive wife. I loved the bloody SOB you know. Still do for that matter. While I'd finally caved, there was no tangible victory for my marriage. And the tension between us grew as I seethed inwardly toward him for making me take sides in the Marriage Vs Army tug. Well he did go do whatever they did and he got back safe & sound if not a bit quieter and remote. After 9-11 the deployments seemed to meld one into the other it was just the icing on the cake.

Ten years into our marriage, the conflict came to a head. Peter was ill and my H was deployed and 'out of contact'. Then... my beautiful wonderful little boy died. And so did our family for a while. I did go right off the rails... inconsolable... broken in so many ways. When Aussie finally was brought back it was too late to help me or Peter. Too little too late was my thought.

That night we had a no-holds-barred fight.

"You weren't there for me... for Peter" I screamed. "Just like every other time I need you."

I didn't give him a chance... I was gunning for him.

"You're never there. You're not on my side. And it makes me feel completely alone. I feel as if I'm a single mum! ! Why do you always choose the F***ing Army over me? YOU KILLED OUR SON."

He was, stunned. The weight of that attack slowly overwhelmed him with a mixture of horror and unfounded guilt. He didn't really deserve that.

We both grew quiet as we let my words hang in the air. Right then and for some months I hated him more than life itself. I started to make bad.. very bad choices. He was sent back can you believe it? Couldn't even let him grieve properly for our son... or to help me... though to be honest I wouldn't have let him. While he was gone I had the affair... I wanted him to know about it at the time.. I wanted him to hurt as I was hurt.

The final act I had planned was to end all my pain and join my little boy. I had it all planned the pills and everything. Didn't think of anyone but me.. not my other kids... not anyone. And then my daughter and my sister ... a doctor... went and spoiled the whole thing ... well its what I thought then .... I told you I was a not a full quid back then ... so I got to spend 10 days in the crazy bin. because in some ways I was.

And of course the affair and associated behaviours came spewing out into the wide open world. Oh joy.

My daughter the poor dear was so so very angry and said I was a sl*t . I guess I was. My son was angry and then sad. And then of course I was told Aussie was hurt. God it seems has a way of teaching you a lesson when you need one. I got it.

To cut a long story short the rest of it was a lot of time with MB.... reluctant confessions to Aussie...and counsellors and doctors for a while as I fought to save my family.. myself .... I didn't deserve to you know.. I think I was a sh*t wife for those pre affair years. Well for some of the last anyway.

It took time and work and more love than I thought people could ever give ... but we are together still.. all of us. We are and were blessed with a new baby.. another boy ... he was conceived the night before my H was sent back to that hellhole in Afghanistan. Yes he is Army.. always will be.. I have accepted it with pride and humility that he choose to share his life with me again ..even after all l did.
But the big difference is this .... from that point, it felt as though we were starting our marriage afresh. We began to dream together, to laugh, to be honest, and to grow together intimately and spiritually. We became friends all over again. Don't ever discount the power of friendship in a marriage between man and wife. And no NOT other men or women... just us.

We spend more time in listening than in planning and doing. Intimacy is our priority. And at the heart of it all ... an unshakable pursuit of becoming "one flesh." Neither of us will make a decision until we reach agreement. We have finally become a true team.

We still have bumps in the road. At times I catch myself drifting toward old patterns with my Aussie, but the corrections are easier. But because we're together, it's not so bad any more.
After deployments he drinks too much .... he is restless dislikes being indoors for too long ... I'd like to accidentally break his leg so he can't go back ... I would like him to have God in his life but he thinks God doesn't comes to the places he goes. And sometimes I very afraid.

I'm not sure my relationship with my H will ever be what it was before; in truth, I'm determined that it won't be. Instead, he and I will more than just better together.

In the meantime, he now knows my loyalty belongs securely to him, TOTALLY and that's like a comforting, warm blanket over us both.

Yes divided loyalties are hard to manage.. hard to work with .... people have asked me whether he can get out of going on this mission or that .......particularly because he already has been there a number of times.

But now I for one never even suggests he try to avoid going, oh don't think I don't want to or that I don't feel that way because I do. I want him home and SAFE in my arms. I will not undermine his commitment to his mates .... our nation... and yes to the both of us. Man it SUCKS big time.

"My wife has never asked me that," he said to my dad one day. "I didn't sign on to be the bloke that runs."

And he won't. Neither shall I.

So remember to look at your divided loyalties .... discuss and set the boundaries you have with your work... your friends.. even your family members. Your wife or husband and the family you created need to know you can be counted on. Did my H fail in that? yes but not totally his fault in the middle of a war .... did it give me an excuse to cheat .. NO BLOODY WAY.

Today is special .... my oldest son... Lt in the Para's arrived back from Afghanistan. My God he's grown so tall. His financee hasn't let go of him all day. I am so proud ... so RELIEVED..I looked across the room at my daughter with her new husband.... another trooper in her dads Regiment ... we smiled at each other as I hung up Peters sock on the tree .. the first time since his death ... Divided loyalties ... she knows the pitfalls and she will need to make her own choices ... hopefully learning from my mistakes.

Then Mikey came running in on those little stubby legs of his yelling "Mummy mummy looks what He gives me" pointing at his big brother ... he was wearing the Paras maroon beret ...the little soldier .... GROAN .. not another one ......... I'm getting too old for this.

All I can say is know your own Divided loyalties ... and know your priorities

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
The following was written by TogetherAlone.
It's an accurate account of how most marriage recovery starts.... just beautifully stated!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I think an awful lot of things about recovering from infidelity are almost impossibly hard to do. It takes a huge amount of personal growth on the part of both spouses, but if both of you can manage it, the recovered marriage is not the real reward - the true prize is the strength, stamina and maturity you've had to acquire to get there.

If there are young children involved, then making the supreme effort to build up the muscle and climb the mountain is well worth the trying.

The trouble is that, in most cases, only one of you is motivated to start the climb IN THE BEGINNING. The BS has to set out on his/her own, in the hope that the WS will wake up and start putting in the effort at some point. You're working on yourself while the WS is sulking, whining, feeling sorry for themselves and acting like a martyr. That's a really tough time.

You know, I think that's the turning point in most marriages here that get through - when the BS sets out on the journey on their own. Setting boundaries, refusing to be gaslighted, being clear about what they want, taking their own audit of personal weaknesses and dependencies, becoming a strong, clear-thinking person. When the WS 'gets' that this is happening, they either start shaping up, or they run away.

Either way, the BS emerges a bigger human being.

Not one of us would have asked to be hit by infidelity, any more than we want cancer or the death of a child. But the big crises that hit us are the best opportunities we have to grow in character and integrity."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
SMB explains WHY PEOPLE CHEAT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



The reason is very simple and is the same no matter who the WS is.

You did not have boundaries in place to protect your marriage from intruders. Or you moved your boundaries because the attention you were getting from OM felt good and you didn't want it to stop.

It really is THAT simple.

Boundaries are what keep us where we belong. Once they are removed, we tread in dangerous waters, often drown, and drown those who love us.

There isn't some deep, dark childhood issue or personality disorder that caused you to have an affair.

Affairs happen because one spouse becomes selfish and self-centered enough to want what feels good at the moment MORE THAN they want to protect their spouse from pain.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



link to original thread

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
I think that the ONLY time someone writes

"don't judge me"

is when they KNOW their actions will be judged because they KNOW they have acted badly!

A person never says:

"I educate my child .... please don't judge me."
"I've been faithful to my vows ... please don't judge me."
"I got an A on my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I exercised and watched my diet and lost 35 pounds ... please don't judge me."

They might say:

"I don't make my child attend school ... please don't judge me."
"I've cheated on my spouse ... please don't judge me."
"I failed my book report ... please don't judge me."
"I ate 12 donuts and sat around on my butt all day and now I am fat ... please don't judge me."

It is a redflag that your conscience bothers you when you say:

"Please don't judge me"

You know your actions deserve scrutiny - but you reject that very same scrutiny.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996

This one-liner gem is courtesy of JoJO422


If you're really friends with someone and nothing more, then you shouldn't have to put JUST in front of that.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996

link to original thread

Quote
Well, it's official.. everything signed, the judge is happy, the attorneys are happy.. everyone else is pretty much coping.. pretty standard outcome I suppose.

I should be elated, but honestly when I received the letter in the mail I knew immediately what it was, sat down and read it and my general feeling was 'Eh.. well that's that.'.. and proceeded about my evening. Didn't even have a celebratory drink or anything.

Might be because I know it's not fully over.. there's still the matter of a couple grand that's been overpayed on things due to her and the attorneys holding things up since December.. which is probably going to result in me filing a few things in the near future.. all concerned have been given 60 days by me to make it right.. we'll see.

But it is the final nail in the coffin of what was once my marriage and my family as I knew it.. so with that, strangely comes some closure where there really wasn't any before.

So I've spent a fair bit (but not an unhealthy amount) of time since December basically trying to sort out my feelings on all that has transpired.. it's been a little eye opening.

DDay for me really happened the day after we had a talk, and I couldn't get any really straight answers from my exW.. her strange behavior the previous couple of weeks had already aroused an uneasy feeling, but the conversation really is what put it over the top. Just a quick glance at her cellphone told me what I didn't want to believe... from that point, my entire life started to change.

We, here on MB talk a lot about addiction in reference to our waywards and it helps many here use that analogy to at least gain some feeling of having insight into their behavior, but what isn't often discussed here is the BS's addiction.. most often to their spouse.. which under normal circumstances is an honestly good thing, but like with many other things concerning infidelity.. it tends to turn everything on it's head.

There's really two distinct phases here, and that is the first where the conflict and betrayal, hurt, anger.. everything serves only to strengthen the desire of the betrayed for the infidel.. It really makes no sense when you look back on it, but this is why many BS's become instant doormats.. clinging, crying, desperate creatures.. which often only serves to solidify the waywards thinking and creates many a self fulfilling prophesy... The 'doom and gloom' of a world picture coming crashing down in tatters just seems to amplify everything and the BS gets the 'feeling' that life is spinning out of control. So the betrayed obsesses.. reading into even the slightest little thing.. coming here and posting, what does this mean, what does that mean? Endless speculation ensues.. assumption based on assumption, based on a shred of something that -could- mean something else.. but it does serve to occupy the mind which is racing to find meaning in anything.. something solid to stand on..

Now anyone who has followed this thread from the beginning knows, I stayed in this first stage for a really long time.. and probably an unhealthy amount of time, and my appeasement and despair/desperation in the beginning is the one thing about this whole ordeal I truly regret having not handled better. Eventually though, life starts to settle down.. one day you find yourself remarkably not thinking about her for an hour. Sure it comes back to drag you down, but then you have a good day.. maybe a couple in a row, and it starts to get better. Folks hate to hear that things just take time.. but eventually you get to a point where you don't crave the interaction with the wayward.. you're finally beyond the horrible withdrawl phase and can truly look forward to the next day and realize that YOU are the one holding the reigns in your own life.. each day truly is what you make it. You don't -need- someone who hurts you in your life. All you -need- to do is the dishes and the laundry and make it to work on time so you can come home, pick up the kids, and do it all agian tomorrow.

Now obviously I didn't recover my marriage, and TBH I didn't really follow Harley's plans for marriage recovery.. but I did pay enough attention to my personal recovery along the way to have gleaned a lot of what I hope to use in a future relationship.

I've finally gotten to a point where I don't have any anxiety in dealing with the exW, because all of our dealings now are very infrequent, and are only about DS. There's a part of me that still cares enough to not want to see her hurt, that still sighs and shakes his head and can be dissapointed with the choices she's making for her life.. but I no longer feel the need to reach out to her. I'm content with letting her fall or float on her own, and in all honesty.. I hope she really is happy, mostly for DS's sake.. I lived with an unhappy parent growing up, and it really is no fun.

I think a lot of the ability to stop reaching out came when I finally forgave her. I don't think forgiveness entails forgetting about the wrongs someone has done to you, and being cautious or guarded with them in the future.. I think, as I've said many times before that forgiveness is simply giving up my right to hurt her, for hurting me.. and honestly, once you lay that burden down, is when the true process of healing begins... or at least it did for me.

I don't spend my days angry anymore. I'm honestly very happy and content with my life, and who I am these days. I understand where my flaws are, and some of them I actually kind of like... others I'm still working on.. and that will be an ongoing process.

It takes time, but you become stronger.. the wound isn't open anymore, but the scar is there.. the tissue is tougher now, and at times can be a little unsightly.. but we can wear scars as prizes, badges of accomplishment.. scars are healed and stronger.. the wound is in the past and the tissue beneath is healthy again.

And so am I.. Jim is cool.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Quote
Two things you should be very careful praying for:

1) That God would allow our faith to be tested.
2) That God would teach us patience.

He’s only too happy to bring about both…

And yet, it is by having our faith tested that our faith grows and by God making us wait for what He has for us that we become patient.

The most dangerous time in our lives is right after we have had a victory. We lose our focus on what God has done for us and refocus on what we have accomplished. It’s what happened after the victory at Jericho. One man tried to call what God said was His “spoils of war” and claimed a right to them. For that he paid with his life.

But all of Israel sinned when they went against Ai, and 3 dozen paid with their lives for that sin. Instead of focusing on what God had done, they began to believe that THEY had won the battle. “We don’t need everyone” they said. “WE can win this battle with but a few men” & “Look what WE did to Jericho.”

And once they had been defeated, they all lamented their own suffering. “Woe is me...” They began to blame God for the loss. “Why did you ever bring this people across the Jordan to deliver us into the hands of the Amorites to destroy us? If only we had been content to stay on the other side of the Jordan!” They begged God to remove the consequences of their sin. They did what repentant sinners do, (threw themselves down before God, sprinkled dust on their heads, cried out to God) but had not owned the sin they had committed. They blamed it on God. They tried to take credit for the victory at Jericho and yet did not accept the consequences for their own sin.

And this is how you will know for certain when your WH is really ready to return and is truly repentant, Queenie. He will say “I have sinned.” He will not blame or even try to blame you, or God, or Crack-Ho, or his job, or his life, or booze, or drugs…He will OWN the choices he has made and show sorrow for them. He will be sorry and not “sorry, but…”

He might never be at that place since most never reach it. But remember that it was God that brought you this far and it was God that has taken care of you so far and it was God that has given YOU the victories you have enjoyed. Let Him finish what He started. Don’t make the mistake of trying to take ownership of what He has done in your life. You didn’t do it without Him and in fact it was really Him who did it all.

Let Him complete His work and stay out of His way...

Stand back, watch and be amazed.

Mark
LINK to original thread



Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 799
D
Member
Offline
Member
D
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 799
Quote
I think a lot of the ability to stop reaching out came when I finally forgave her. I don't think forgiveness entails forgetting about the wrongs someone has done to you, and being cautious or guarded with them in the future.. I think, as I've said many times before that forgiveness is simply giving up my right to hurt her, for hurting me.. and honestly, once you lay that burden down, is when the true process of healing begins... or at least it did for me.

wow


BW-me-56
FWH-GreenMile-62
Married 1982
2 wonderful grown sons

D Day #1 4/1985
D Day #2 10/03/08
D Days continued for a while.

Started real recovery 07/15/10
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 248
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 248
This is spot-on! From all that my FWH has told me over the last 3.5 months, I see parallels between your analysis and his situation. Thank you so much for taking the time two years ago to post this. It helps me understand to some degree how a man who says he always loved me could have been so deeply involved with OW for three years. I am sending this link to my FWH, as I think it will be a help to him as he tries to sort out how he became a WH.


D-Day EA 11/29/08
D-Day PA 12/12/08

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 184
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 184
reading all of these posts has been great.

So much insight, I have never spent so much time copying and saving some of my favorites to review later.

A great deal of wisdom here.


Me BS (41)
DD 10
DD 8
WW - The big D
"Don't say sorry, just don't do it again"
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,698
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,698
bump


Recovered marriage, recovering self, life gets better everyday laugh
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 74
R
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 74
Bump

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.

............... from her sig line !

Awesome hurray

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Written by GloveOil:

Quote
tsmith,

Sorry for you & your husband that you're in this situation.

Answers to TheRoad's Q's wil give us a better sense of where you stand.

There may be a good chance you can save your marriage, but it isn't going to be all-better & forgotten quickly or without lots of tought emotional digging by both of you.

Some things that helped me with my OWN self-inflicted marital train-wreck:

--Complete honesty on your part is essential. "Trickle-truth" will set you back. Trying to "protect" his feelings by hiding secrets from him will set you back & make your marital recovery that much harder. Tell him what he asks.

--Resist the urge to try to explain your actions. While there are explanations, please keep in mind that explanations are NOT the same as excuses (and there ARE no excuses for what folks like you & I did when we cheated). Unfortunately for you, a betrayed spouse is most likely not in any position to be a able to distinguish between explanations & attempted excuses. Don't let yourself come off sounding in his ears like you're trying to minimze what happened.

--Let him be angry & vent. (Remember, you -- the one person who swore to protect him -- have just taken his heart & dashed it to the ground. He's got a right to be upset.)

--No contact with the other man is essential. Any contact will set you back. This is non-negotiable. Non-negotiable.

--If you don't want to lose your husband, tell him so, unequivocally. This is the time to check any pride at the door. You want to be trusted again by him someday, so you're going to have to be willing to commit an act of trust, by placing your heart entirely in his hands, to see if he rejects it or (with time) accepts it.

--Patience on your part is essential. You probably want to forget this ever happened. But you won't; neither will your husband. You can make your relationship with him beter than it was before your affair, and you can get it back to a place where it won't seem like work; but it will take lots of work & patience to get to that place. Think in terms of months & maybe years, not days/weeks.

Are you up for it?



Link to original thread

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
OP Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
This is an excellent exchange written by BARNBOY


Barnboy: "Steven Harley had some words about spending time trying to define what an affair is:"

Quote
Discussions (or arguments) about what to include or exclude from the definition of marital infidelity is an effective way to get lost down a path where "Left Brainers" typically dwell and where "Right Brainers" typically get offended. The bottom line to the question is, "Specifically, what was it about the inappropriate relationship' that caused the damage in the marriage?" Was it the sex ([insert definition here]), the emotional bond, the amount of time spent together, the physical attraction? What was it? Talk about it. Get a clear understanding. If you don't understand how or why it happened and why it hurt the spouse, the probability of it happening again is very high.

Asking others to define the term for you is not the answer. If you boil it all down, you are left with the fact that you both need to work together in developing a plan to prevent this "beast" from ever attacking your marriage again. If you don't know what it looks like, if you don't know where it hides, if you don't know what its touch feels like, then how will you ever protect your marriage from its venom again?


Barnboy:"Independent behavior + dishonesty about it with a member of the opposite sex is, to me, infidelity. I don't really consider it "adultery" unless it involves sex, but a partner doing things with a member of the opposite sex and lying about it qualifies as infidelity and an affair in my book."


Original poster:"I very recently found out about an EA my spouse was having..."


Barnboy: "Correction: Unless you have evidence that it is over, and extraordinary precautions in place to prevent its recurrence, your husband is involved in an ACTIVE and CURRENT affair, and it should be treated that way."

Original poster:"What is bothering me now is that he refuses to admit anything...........and he knows I have proof. Instead, he has chosen to try and figure out just how much I DO know versus coming clean and getting over it."

Barnboy: "This is the behavior of an active wayward spouse, straight out of the playbook. Their goal is to try to misdirect you in several ways with each piece of evidence:
1. "Gaslight" you, make it your fault, make you question your judgment.
2. Claim these are the actions of people who are "just friends", no matter how inappropriate.
3. Establish how you learned of their actions in order to remove those methods of communication and drive their relationship deeper underground to avoid detection. DO NOT inform him of how you learned each piece of evidence. That will only be used to make sure that snooping method won't work again!

No member of the opposite sex should be allowed to fill a spouse's need for intimate conversation, affection, sexual fulfillment, or recreational companionship. That is how affairs start.

Advice:
1. Buy a copy of Dr. Harley's "Surviving An Affair". Right now. Drop what you're doing, order it, call around to bookstores, whatever, get a copy in your hands.
2. Once you've read the book, implement Plan A immediately.
3. Plan to expose this affair in a very directed fashion. For instance, I collected names, telephone numbers, and email addresses of every friend and relative of my wife's who I knew was a friend of our marriage. Then in a two-day span, I called them all. My script started the same way each time: "Dear friend, I called you for some advice. My wife is having an affair with (other person). I recently discovered it's been going on for the past (length of time). It has not yet become sexual as far as I know, but I don't know what to do about it. You know her so well, I could really use your advice."
Expect to receive a mystifying array of responses, but don't plan to act on them; plan to act on Dr. Harley's Plan A from Surviving An Affair.
4. Learn to share the truth of the hurt of the affair with your husband without disrespectful judgments, angry outbursts, or selfish demands.

Your goal here in Plan A is to show your husband what a loving, warm, supportive, and wonderful spouse you can be, and exactly how much he stands to lose if he continues to pursue this affair. If after some time period you set during which you can continue to meet his needs expecting nothing in return he does not abandon his affair partner, you'll move to Plan B.

And we'll cover that in another discussion. Learn the plan to work through Surviving An Affair right now."


Link to original post

Last edited by Pepperband; 11/06/09 11:33 AM.
Page 6 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,027 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5