Hi everyone,

I am new here and also a BS. I need some advice about my WW's EA (not PA yet I think). Here is my story.

I am in a country where divorce is not common. Many stayed married for the kids without much love. Anyway, my wife and I started dating about 18 years ago when we were university students. We argued frequently though in the first few years but very much in love. I however do not know how to love and did not express much emotion. When we had a fight, she usually did not saying anything and I could not find out what was on her mind. I tried to talk to her but usually I ended up not speaking to her for a while too. I think I pick up this LB and did it quite a lot after that. Later even after we were married, I sometime don't talk to her for a day or two, even when spoken to first. I regret this now.

We were together for about five years. I was happy (with SF) but I guess we did not have the intimacy and passion (compared to what she have with OM now). She likes to go shopping a lot. I walked along but eventually stopped and just read a book in the car or do something. But we were separated after that for about 2 and a half year. We emailed and met about twice a year. But somehow, during this time, she fell out of love (I think). I can no longer persuade her to have sex with me. When she came to visit me, I want to feel her love but she would not do it with me. We usually went on a trip when she came. She looked happy. But I guess I should make some large love bank deposit first before trying to do it with her since we were separated for so long. But I thought she did not love me so I was moody then, even when we went on trips. After that time we get married. We did not have sex on the wedding day and no honeymoon. I think we only have sex a few times for like 5 years. Anyway, I persuaded her to have a baby with me. An now the boy is 8 years old.

We stayed at my family's place. She resented this. She told me many times but I kept arguing that being here is better. We can get help raising the boy. During this time I was happy but have almost no SF. She don't like me touching her. I said the D word 2 or 3 times because of this. I think at least she need to perform this duty as a wife. Huge LB, I think. I did not think about it at the time but I am sure she were very hurt by my words because she has no job and cannot go anywhere. I think she start thinking about not loving me and EA started.

Anyway, about two and a half year ago, my wife told me that she could not love me the way she used to. And she had decided to move out when the boy grow up enough. She simply don't want to stayed married without love. She said she might not marry me if someone asked if she really wanted to marry me. She said she loved someone else now (for about 6 months when I found out). I was devastated. She would not tell me who he is but said that she don't know if he likes her or not. I think she said he was not available. I though the guy was married so I asked her to try to work on us. We had sex about once a month after that for about 6 months. I was very happy. I thought we were back on track so I asked her to have another baby. I always want two. I don't argue with her much after this and usually we get along quite well. We had another boy who is one years old now.

Here is the bomb. About a month ago (beginning of December 09), she said that she is now in love with the guy (same guy). [This part my wife tell me.] They were seeing each other for about one year now. He was a trainer at my boy's school. She did not work so she would just hang around the boy's school. I think she was bored with her life. They did not talk much but I can see that they might be interested in each other. But I trusted my wife. My wife was a quiet girl and very beautiful. My wife said that she knew right away that this guy is �the one� when she first saw him. She did not feel the same way with me. He is 8 years younger then us. We are 38 now. He had a girlfriend back then but broke up just to be available for my W. I think he can also tell from the way my wife look at him. He also see that we were not happy couple. About a year ago, he called. They start talking and dating. I think they are much in love now and they may be quite sincere about living together when they are ready.

It has been a month now. So far she said that there is no PA. And, since the D-day, she went to see him many times (told me once). On D-day, she said that she wanted to stay until the second boy start going to school. She wanted to take care of the second boy first. She has no where to go especially because she wants to take at least the second boy with her. He is still too young to be separated from his mother. She wanted to be with the OM but he is not ready financially. She said he understands that the two boys might come along with her. She can move out now if she want. She can live comfortably for 3-4 years with half of our money and actually much longer cuz I have to send money for the boys. On D-Day, I told her that we will find a place for her and she can be off in 6 month � divorce amicably. I also think that my sons would be better off with her if we divorce. So, I actually trying to buy a good place for them to stay. Then, OM will slowly come in... I just want her to be happy. It will be too easy for OM since he will not actually have to support her for a long time. I am not sure why she would not just go now. She might be afraid of breaking her mother's heart for divorcing and she might still not sure if OM is really sincere. I think I deserve a loving wife too and the sooner she leaves the better chance for me.

I am not sure what to do. So far I want to save my M. I am very much still in love with WW. Please advice. So far I am waiting to see if the OM will go away. Hoping for her to stay for a few more year. I might move out to a new place with her too in a few months just to please her. But this could make their A easier. The problem is that WW always say that doing good things for her can't make she love me. I am not the one, OM is. I am a nice husband but love cannot be forced on her. She don't want to force her feeling trying to love me. The situation is quite hopeless I think. I am not sure if she is in the FOG. In hind sight, I think her coldness toward me for 10 years+ make sense now. I thought she just tired of taking care of the baby. Even if OM go away he might be back any time. Even if OM go away, she might still leave and will not love me no matter what I do. These days, she is quite pleasant to talk to but quite annoyed if I pushed too much. I thought we were happy all this time. We talked and laugh. But she still has EA and want to leave me eventually (may be I asked about this too frequently).

Is there hope saving my M?

ME 38
WW 38
OM 30
Two sons 8 and 1

Dated 91
In love 91-96
Separate (but still a couple) 97-99
Married 00
EA start 06/06
First D-Day 06/07
WW + OM dating 10/ 08
Second D-day 12/09

Hello Hola!
Welcome to Marriagebuilders. You�ve come to right place if you want to save your marriage.

I think that first you should read everything you can on this website about marriages, what they should be like, because yours doesn�t seem the typical marriage. I think you would like a good marriage but you don�t seem to know what it looks like.
A wife with a boyfriend doesn�t make a good marriage....
And you seem to be OK with that thinking that it�s the best for her, for you and for the children, but IT�S NOT!

Read about needs and love busters and then read about infidelity. You have to become a man your wife can admire!

You must not tolerate the affair, you must never, ever, agree to it. You must always tell her how much it hurts you without aggression or anger. Everytime you get a chance. While she�s having an affair your marriage doesn�t have a chance.

Read a lot of the stuff on the website and if you can get the book Surviving an Affair, buy it and if you can His Needs her needs by the same author Dr. Harley.

others will be by to give you more advice soon although it wll be quieter on the weekend.

What a horrible marriage that you have. You are both unhappy. You do not meet her emotional needs and you seem undecided about scooting OM off the picture.

Please read here about marriage building. It is a job. We have to work at it.

You need to expose the relationship with OM now and work towards making your wife love you.

I am curious to know which country you live in.

Your situation is like most here, and there is lots of hope. First, the boyfriend has to go. Expose the affair to her family and his family. Ask for their support in protecting your family and marriage. Don't do anything to make it easy for them to carry on an affair.

And yes, your wife will be furious. She will get over her anger, but an active affair is very dangerous to your marriage.

Hola, y bienvenidos.
Your English is excellent.

For now, read about Plan A.

Read about Emotional Needs and meet hers to the very best of your ability. Do not ask her to meet your needs right now; if you ask her to meet your needs (have sex, whatever) she will feel pressured and will want to leave. Also when you meet her needs make sure you are meeting HER needs, and not "being nice" or doing what YOU would like someone to do for you. It has to be all about her and what she prefers.

Try to think about OM and what he does that she likes so much. Does he listen to her talk about her feelings, her dreams, and her hopes? Do they take walks or have picnic lunches?

Also read about Love Busters and eliminate all of them NOW. One love buster can undo a lot of hard work meeting her emotional needs. Love Busters will kill a marriage, and when a marriage is in a critical state Love Busters are fatal. Get rid of all of them, right now.

Finally, if you are in a country where divorce is uncommon, I suspect that infidelity is also taboo? Regardless, you need to expose this affair. It will make your wife very angry and she may threaten to leave or divorce you. She may tell you that she had decided to work on the marriage and leave OM but that now you have driven her away, she hates you, and there is no way she would ever want to be married to you. Expect her anger and do not be afraid. When you expose the affair you bring it to the light of day. Your wife's anger shows that she is embarrassed and she knows she is doing wrong. Exposure hurts the affair and this will make her angry -- which is a good thing!! So remember, the more anger she shows, the happier you should be.

About exposure:

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

Thanks for all the comments!

May be I am overstated that many people here stayed married without love. May be people here just don't show much affections.

Divorce here is not taboo or anything.

About the exposure, I am not sure if exposure will be good. I am thinking about it and about when. I think exposure is definitly good if the WS is undecided of what to do. That is when you want to add more cost to the A. My wife seems to decide already that she wants to leave and probably has plan for a future with OM.

Also exposure should be good if my wife want the A to be hidden. Although my wife tried to hide the A from me but she just told me when I asked. May be she is hiding it from her parents? Also, I am afraid that exposure will simply make it public. Their relation is supposed to be public eventually.

Then there are problems with targets. She don't have any friend except me. She only have constant contact with her mother. Her mother would be heart broken but I am not sure if she will help me. She loves my wife and probably would not want to break their relationship. I think my wife also doesn't care much since their A is supposed to become a real relationship. Eventually her mother would cave in. People here are not very confrontational or opinionated. Currently, I have no info on target on OM side too.

On the D-day, she said it is up to me. She would like to stay for 2 years but if I want her to go she will, whenever I want. Giving up OM is not an option. So, I am leanning toward Plan A with no exposure. At least for a while...try to see if she warms up to me first. May be OM will go away but this is unlikely. I don't think I can out last him. My love bank is draining fast! I also think that we should move out of my parent's place first so I can get do plan B effectively. But again since I think my wife can take care of our sons better. I will get her a comfortable place to stay. So, this could be a really looong plan B. I think I will just get a divorce first. Free myself to see other women while I wait for her.

One weak spot that I want to exploit is that OM is not ready financially. But my wife say she can support herself.

May be it is I that is in the FOG? Is this the case where the A is supposed to become a real relationship?

Hola, I don�t think you get it.

If you came here hoping that people would just sympathize with you and sit around having a pity party you are wrong. This forum is to discuss using Dr. Harley�s plan to fight infidelity, to survive an affair and hopefully to save a marriage. That�s why it�s called MARRIAGEBUILDING. His methods are solidly based on scientific studies and personal experience.

If you don�t intend to use these methods, don�t bother staying here. it is just frustrating for you and for us.

I infer that you haven�t read the steps to break up an affair or you have simply decided on your own that it is not possible. While the affair exists you won�t have a marriage and since you seem to be resigned to tolerating the affair the only choices left are to go on as you are without ever finding out what marriage really is or getting a divorce, and hopefully starting again with some foreknowledge so that you don�t get into this kind of relationship again.

Maybe you don�t realize it but your wife does not respect or admire you and she never will as long as you tolerate all her abuse and seem to accept it.

Expoure is the first step to breaking up an affair. If she doesn�t care, it won�t matter to her but I bet she will care if you start telling EVERYONE including the OM�s family and friends that they are having an affair.

read Patriot 45�s thread, he�s in a similar situation to yours and the advice he is given is the same as you would get.

Good luck!

If you will not expose you will not have much success.

I'm sorry to hear you talking like that Hola.
Good luck with that.

Hola - I think what you are not understanding is that all affairs are the same. All affair partners think that they are soul mates and are moving on to a better relationship.

I don't know what country you come from, but there are not many where a husband will tolerate his wife having a lover. You need to think carefully, and EXPOSE the affair. And most likely, her mother will NOT side with you. It doesn't matter.

On MB we believe that since the affair is "meant to be", then it is important to expose it to the light, and let everyone know. Affairs thrive in secrecy.

Don't tell your wife, just expose the affair to anyone who might be able to support the marriage. And don't worry, because often relatives will not support the marriage. But the exposure of the affair often ends it.

Hi,
I am not giving up yet! About exposure, I am composing a list. So far, I only have the name of the boss of OM, a name of a possible sibling. I looking to get a private eye to find out about his parents. Should I just expose now with whatever I have or should I wait to get more complete list? Should I plan A for a while and then the expose?

I just receive the book "surviving an affair" No much info on exposure there. On the notable post here, there are two posts for the newly betrayed. One advocate the exposure but the other said A will die by natural cause so don't interfere with it??? I am also reading the thread by Patriot45 as suggested.

Please advice...

Expose as soon as possible and DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE that you are going to do it. On Patriot�s thread you have a lot of advice about how to go about it and how to react to your wife whn she hears about it.

OK, an update...

So far I told a few people that I think matter most. Her mom and her Aunt. My mom. OM's brother via email asking for their parent's phone no. OM's boss. OM's boss said she will talk to OM since the relationship with parents are not appropriate. She actually told me that she see OM with a girlfriend. WW told me they broke up earlier! I got his home phone from the boss hoping to talk to OM's parents but somehow the phone line is temporary not working????

So far no reaction from my wife. Her mom and her Aunt did not do anything, I think. May be they thought this suppose to be kept secret??? Is it suppose to be like this? I only have a few more target left!!!! I don't want to tell ALL...

What to do with OM's gf? I think I should not tell her so that their relationship will be more desirable????

Expose OMGF.

Of course you must tell the GF! She deserves to know.
It doesn't matter what your wife says. YOU get a plan and stick to it.
Read Ladylonglegs thread. She's getting great advice and is sort of at the same stage as you.

Why do you think that?

I do believe and my personal experience supports that usually the last thing OMs plan is to have a real relationship with their lover.

Are you really afraid that the only thing that keeps WW and OM from getting together is OM GF?

Believe me, once the affair is exposed, it will be much much less desirable for both parties in it.

By definition, the affairs feed from secrets.

OK. I will find out OMGF's number first. Not really sure how though. I need it from one of OM's friend...May be OM's parents will know. I have their address now. I know I am being selfish here but I will need to talk to OMGF first.

Now, more about exposure, What if every one just keep silence? They don't want the exposure I think. I don't want to tell my son at least not now. I would be unpopular with every one. I am reading more about exposure as suggested.

When you exposed, did you ask for their advice? Did you tell them you would appreciate any support they could give for your marriage?

Do not worry if you don't see any effects right away. This is a big thing. It might take the mother and the aunt some time to think about what to say to WW and how to say it. They may decide not to say anything. They might only hint that WW should spend more time at home, or they might only ask her some questions. You cannot control any of that.

Exposure is still helpful because you can be sure that the Mom and the Aunt will look at WW a little differently and treat her a little differently, even if they don't explicitly say or do anything obvious.

When you say "I don't want to tell ALL..." do you mean all the people you can think of, or that you don't want to tell everything about the affair?


DEFINITELY TELL OM's GF!! She will probably try to break up the affair herself. It will be hard for OM to spend time with your WW if there is a jealous GF watching him all the time. She might break up with him. If she does this, OM will probably quit talking to your WW and run after his GF and try to fix things with her.

You MUST expose to OM's GF. This is your strongest exposure target.

OK. an update.

I told a few more today. Basically all that I think will matter. I don't want to tell everyone. It is not appropriate here I think. I will hold on my WW side first and see what happen. I don't want to tell my son yet. Still not much reaction from my wife. But she did stop giving me time to talk to her alone while the kids were away. I though I was putting in a few love units for a few days earlier.

I did went to see OM's mom at her house. Lucky OM was not home. OM actually just called me saying he will try to go away. He said he is still seeing the his GF. Do I try to tell her now or just hold it on his side of the fence? Well on his side, I only have his GF on my list and there is no leads on her now.