Hi everyone,

I am new here and also a BS. I need some advice about my WW's EA (not PA yet I think). Here is my story.

I am in a country where divorce is not common. Many stayed married for the kids without much love. Anyway, my wife and I started dating about 18 years ago when we were university students. We argued frequently though in the first few years but very much in love. I however do not know how to love and did not express much emotion. When we had a fight, she usually did not saying anything and I could not find out what was on her mind. I tried to talk to her but usually I ended up not speaking to her for a while too. I think I pick up this LB and did it quite a lot after that. Later even after we were married, I sometime don't talk to her for a day or two, even when spoken to first. I regret this now.

We were together for about five years. I was happy (with SF) but I guess we did not have the intimacy and passion (compared to what she have with OM now). She likes to go shopping a lot. I walked along but eventually stopped and just read a book in the car or do something. But we were separated after that for about 2 and a half year. We emailed and met about twice a year. But somehow, during this time, she fell out of love (I think). I can no longer persuade her to have sex with me. When she came to visit me, I want to feel her love but she would not do it with me. We usually went on a trip when she came. She looked happy. But I guess I should make some large love bank deposit first before trying to do it with her since we were separated for so long. But I thought she did not love me so I was moody then, even when we went on trips. After that time we get married. We did not have sex on the wedding day and no honeymoon. I think we only have sex a few times for like 5 years. Anyway, I persuaded her to have a baby with me. An now the boy is 8 years old.

We stayed at my family's place. She resented this. She told me many times but I kept arguing that being here is better. We can get help raising the boy. During this time I was happy but have almost no SF. She don't like me touching her. I said the D word 2 or 3 times because of this. I think at least she need to perform this duty as a wife. Huge LB, I think. I did not think about it at the time but I am sure she were very hurt by my words because she has no job and cannot go anywhere. I think she start thinking about not loving me and EA started.

Anyway, about two and a half year ago, my wife told me that she could not love me the way she used to. And she had decided to move out when the boy grow up enough. She simply don't want to stayed married without love. She said she might not marry me if someone asked if she really wanted to marry me. She said she loved someone else now (for about 6 months when I found out). I was devastated. She would not tell me who he is but said that she don't know if he likes her or not. I think she said he was not available. I though the guy was married so I asked her to try to work on us. We had sex about once a month after that for about 6 months. I was very happy. I thought we were back on track so I asked her to have another baby. I always want two. I don't argue with her much after this and usually we get along quite well. We had another boy who is one years old now.

Here is the bomb. About a month ago (beginning of December 09), she said that she is now in love with the guy (same guy). [This part my wife tell me.] They were seeing each other for about one year now. He was a trainer at my boy's school. She did not work so she would just hang around the boy's school. I think she was bored with her life. They did not talk much but I can see that they might be interested in each other. But I trusted my wife. My wife was a quiet girl and very beautiful. My wife said that she knew right away that this guy is �the one� when she first saw him. She did not feel the same way with me. He is 8 years younger then us. We are 38 now. He had a girlfriend back then but broke up just to be available for my W. I think he can also tell from the way my wife look at him. He also see that we were not happy couple. About a year ago, he called. They start talking and dating. I think they are much in love now and they may be quite sincere about living together when they are ready.

It has been a month now. So far she said that there is no PA. And, since the D-day, she went to see him many times (told me once). On D-day, she said that she wanted to stay until the second boy start going to school. She wanted to take care of the second boy first. She has no where to go especially because she wants to take at least the second boy with her. He is still too young to be separated from his mother. She wanted to be with the OM but he is not ready financially. She said he understands that the two boys might come along with her. She can move out now if she want. She can live comfortably for 3-4 years with half of our money and actually much longer cuz I have to send money for the boys. On D-Day, I told her that we will find a place for her and she can be off in 6 month � divorce amicably. I also think that my sons would be better off with her if we divorce. So, I actually trying to buy a good place for them to stay. Then, OM will slowly come in... I just want her to be happy. It will be too easy for OM since he will not actually have to support her for a long time. I am not sure why she would not just go now. She might be afraid of breaking her mother's heart for divorcing and she might still not sure if OM is really sincere. I think I deserve a loving wife too and the sooner she leaves the better chance for me.

I am not sure what to do. So far I want to save my M. I am very much still in love with WW. Please advice. So far I am waiting to see if the OM will go away. Hoping for her to stay for a few more year. I might move out to a new place with her too in a few months just to please her. But this could make their A easier. The problem is that WW always say that doing good things for her can't make she love me. I am not the one, OM is. I am a nice husband but love cannot be forced on her. She don't want to force her feeling trying to love me. The situation is quite hopeless I think. I am not sure if she is in the FOG. In hind sight, I think her coldness toward me for 10 years+ make sense now. I thought she just tired of taking care of the baby. Even if OM go away he might be back any time. Even if OM go away, she might still leave and will not love me no matter what I do. These days, she is quite pleasant to talk to but quite annoyed if I pushed too much. I thought we were happy all this time. We talked and laugh. But she still has EA and want to leave me eventually (may be I asked about this too frequently).

Is there hope saving my M?

ME 38
WW 38
OM 30
Two sons 8 and 1

Dated 91
In love 91-96
Separate (but still a couple) 97-99
Married 00
EA start 06/06
First D-Day 06/07
WW + OM dating 10/ 08
Second D-day 12/09

Hello Hola!
Welcome to Marriagebuilders. You�ve come to right place if you want to save your marriage.

I think that first you should read everything you can on this website about marriages, what they should be like, because yours doesn�t seem the typical marriage. I think you would like a good marriage but you don�t seem to know what it looks like.
A wife with a boyfriend doesn�t make a good marriage....
And you seem to be OK with that thinking that it�s the best for her, for you and for the children, but IT�S NOT!

Read about needs and love busters and then read about infidelity. You have to become a man your wife can admire!

You must not tolerate the affair, you must never, ever, agree to it. You must always tell her how much it hurts you without aggression or anger. Everytime you get a chance. While she�s having an affair your marriage doesn�t have a chance.

Read a lot of the stuff on the website and if you can get the book Surviving an Affair, buy it and if you can His Needs her needs by the same author Dr. Harley.

others will be by to give you more advice soon although it wll be quieter on the weekend.

What a horrible marriage that you have. You are both unhappy. You do not meet her emotional needs and you seem undecided about scooting OM off the picture.

Please read here about marriage building. It is a job. We have to work at it.

You need to expose the relationship with OM now and work towards making your wife love you.

I am curious to know which country you live in.

Your situation is like most here, and there is lots of hope. First, the boyfriend has to go. Expose the affair to her family and his family. Ask for their support in protecting your family and marriage. Don't do anything to make it easy for them to carry on an affair.

And yes, your wife will be furious. She will get over her anger, but an active affair is very dangerous to your marriage.

Hola, y bienvenidos.
Your English is excellent.

For now, read about Plan A.

Read about Emotional Needs and meet hers to the very best of your ability. Do not ask her to meet your needs right now; if you ask her to meet your needs (have sex, whatever) she will feel pressured and will want to leave. Also when you meet her needs make sure you are meeting HER needs, and not "being nice" or doing what YOU would like someone to do for you. It has to be all about her and what she prefers.

Try to think about OM and what he does that she likes so much. Does he listen to her talk about her feelings, her dreams, and her hopes? Do they take walks or have picnic lunches?

Also read about Love Busters and eliminate all of them NOW. One love buster can undo a lot of hard work meeting her emotional needs. Love Busters will kill a marriage, and when a marriage is in a critical state Love Busters are fatal. Get rid of all of them, right now.

Finally, if you are in a country where divorce is uncommon, I suspect that infidelity is also taboo? Regardless, you need to expose this affair. It will make your wife very angry and she may threaten to leave or divorce you. She may tell you that she had decided to work on the marriage and leave OM but that now you have driven her away, she hates you, and there is no way she would ever want to be married to you. Expect her anger and do not be afraid. When you expose the affair you bring it to the light of day. Your wife's anger shows that she is embarrassed and she knows she is doing wrong. Exposure hurts the affair and this will make her angry -- which is a good thing!! So remember, the more anger she shows, the happier you should be.

About exposure:

--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.

--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.

--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?

--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.

Thanks for all the comments!

May be I am overstated that many people here stayed married without love. May be people here just don't show much affections.

Divorce here is not taboo or anything.

About the exposure, I am not sure if exposure will be good. I am thinking about it and about when. I think exposure is definitly good if the WS is undecided of what to do. That is when you want to add more cost to the A. My wife seems to decide already that she wants to leave and probably has plan for a future with OM.

Also exposure should be good if my wife want the A to be hidden. Although my wife tried to hide the A from me but she just told me when I asked. May be she is hiding it from her parents? Also, I am afraid that exposure will simply make it public. Their relation is supposed to be public eventually.

Then there are problems with targets. She don't have any friend except me. She only have constant contact with her mother. Her mother would be heart broken but I am not sure if she will help me. She loves my wife and probably would not want to break their relationship. I think my wife also doesn't care much since their A is supposed to become a real relationship. Eventually her mother would cave in. People here are not very confrontational or opinionated. Currently, I have no info on target on OM side too.

On the D-day, she said it is up to me. She would like to stay for 2 years but if I want her to go she will, whenever I want. Giving up OM is not an option. So, I am leanning toward Plan A with no exposure. At least for a while...try to see if she warms up to me first. May be OM will go away but this is unlikely. I don't think I can out last him. My love bank is draining fast! I also think that we should move out of my parent's place first so I can get do plan B effectively. But again since I think my wife can take care of our sons better. I will get her a comfortable place to stay. So, this could be a really looong plan B. I think I will just get a divorce first. Free myself to see other women while I wait for her.

One weak spot that I want to exploit is that OM is not ready financially. But my wife say she can support herself.

May be it is I that is in the FOG? Is this the case where the A is supposed to become a real relationship?

Hola, I don�t think you get it.

If you came here hoping that people would just sympathize with you and sit around having a pity party you are wrong. This forum is to discuss using Dr. Harley�s plan to fight infidelity, to survive an affair and hopefully to save a marriage. That�s why it�s called MARRIAGEBUILDING. His methods are solidly based on scientific studies and personal experience.

If you don�t intend to use these methods, don�t bother staying here. it is just frustrating for you and for us.

I infer that you haven�t read the steps to break up an affair or you have simply decided on your own that it is not possible. While the affair exists you won�t have a marriage and since you seem to be resigned to tolerating the affair the only choices left are to go on as you are without ever finding out what marriage really is or getting a divorce, and hopefully starting again with some foreknowledge so that you don�t get into this kind of relationship again.

Maybe you don�t realize it but your wife does not respect or admire you and she never will as long as you tolerate all her abuse and seem to accept it.

Expoure is the first step to breaking up an affair. If she doesn�t care, it won�t matter to her but I bet she will care if you start telling EVERYONE including the OM�s family and friends that they are having an affair.

read Patriot 45�s thread, he�s in a similar situation to yours and the advice he is given is the same as you would get.

Good luck!

If you will not expose you will not have much success.

I'm sorry to hear you talking like that Hola.
Good luck with that.

Hola - I think what you are not understanding is that all affairs are the same. All affair partners think that they are soul mates and are moving on to a better relationship.

I don't know what country you come from, but there are not many where a husband will tolerate his wife having a lover. You need to think carefully, and EXPOSE the affair. And most likely, her mother will NOT side with you. It doesn't matter.

On MB we believe that since the affair is "meant to be", then it is important to expose it to the light, and let everyone know. Affairs thrive in secrecy.

Don't tell your wife, just expose the affair to anyone who might be able to support the marriage. And don't worry, because often relatives will not support the marriage. But the exposure of the affair often ends it.

Hi,
I am not giving up yet! About exposure, I am composing a list. So far, I only have the name of the boss of OM, a name of a possible sibling. I looking to get a private eye to find out about his parents. Should I just expose now with whatever I have or should I wait to get more complete list? Should I plan A for a while and then the expose?

I just receive the book "surviving an affair" No much info on exposure there. On the notable post here, there are two posts for the newly betrayed. One advocate the exposure but the other said A will die by natural cause so don't interfere with it??? I am also reading the thread by Patriot45 as suggested.

Please advice...

Expose as soon as possible and DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE that you are going to do it. On Patriot�s thread you have a lot of advice about how to go about it and how to react to your wife whn she hears about it.

OK, an update...

So far I told a few people that I think matter most. Her mom and her Aunt. My mom. OM's brother via email asking for their parent's phone no. OM's boss. OM's boss said she will talk to OM since the relationship with parents are not appropriate. She actually told me that she see OM with a girlfriend. WW told me they broke up earlier! I got his home phone from the boss hoping to talk to OM's parents but somehow the phone line is temporary not working????

So far no reaction from my wife. Her mom and her Aunt did not do anything, I think. May be they thought this suppose to be kept secret??? Is it suppose to be like this? I only have a few more target left!!!! I don't want to tell ALL...

What to do with OM's gf? I think I should not tell her so that their relationship will be more desirable????

Expose OMGF.

Of course you must tell the GF! She deserves to know.
It doesn't matter what your wife says. YOU get a plan and stick to it.
Read Ladylonglegs thread. She's getting great advice and is sort of at the same stage as you.

Why do you think that?

I do believe and my personal experience supports that usually the last thing OMs plan is to have a real relationship with their lover.

Are you really afraid that the only thing that keeps WW and OM from getting together is OM GF?

Believe me, once the affair is exposed, it will be much much less desirable for both parties in it.

By definition, the affairs feed from secrets.

OK. I will find out OMGF's number first. Not really sure how though. I need it from one of OM's friend...May be OM's parents will know. I have their address now. I know I am being selfish here but I will need to talk to OMGF first.

Now, more about exposure, What if every one just keep silence? They don't want the exposure I think. I don't want to tell my son at least not now. I would be unpopular with every one. I am reading more about exposure as suggested.

When you exposed, did you ask for their advice? Did you tell them you would appreciate any support they could give for your marriage?

Do not worry if you don't see any effects right away. This is a big thing. It might take the mother and the aunt some time to think about what to say to WW and how to say it. They may decide not to say anything. They might only hint that WW should spend more time at home, or they might only ask her some questions. You cannot control any of that.

Exposure is still helpful because you can be sure that the Mom and the Aunt will look at WW a little differently and treat her a little differently, even if they don't explicitly say or do anything obvious.

When you say "I don't want to tell ALL..." do you mean all the people you can think of, or that you don't want to tell everything about the affair?


DEFINITELY TELL OM's GF!! She will probably try to break up the affair herself. It will be hard for OM to spend time with your WW if there is a jealous GF watching him all the time. She might break up with him. If she does this, OM will probably quit talking to your WW and run after his GF and try to fix things with her.

You MUST expose to OM's GF. This is your strongest exposure target.

OK. an update.

I told a few more today. Basically all that I think will matter. I don't want to tell everyone. It is not appropriate here I think. I will hold on my WW side first and see what happen. I don't want to tell my son yet. Still not much reaction from my wife. But she did stop giving me time to talk to her alone while the kids were away. I though I was putting in a few love units for a few days earlier.

I did went to see OM's mom at her house. Lucky OM was not home. OM actually just called me saying he will try to go away. He said he is still seeing the his GF. Do I try to tell her now or just hold it on his side of the fence? Well on his side, I only have his GF on my list and there is no leads on her now.

Tell the girlfriend as soon as possible.

meanwhile be nice to your wife.

wait and see what happens...
Do you mean that the OM called you and said he would go away?

What news? how are things going?

have you been reading what a marriage should look like? have you thought about what YOU need to do?

You can still meet her EN for conversation by sending her texts, emails, leaving notes once in a while, and so on. Whatever you do, do NOT talk relationship talk with her right now. You are supposed to be in Plan A - meeting her ENs to the best of your ability.

Talking about how to fix the marriage is, right now, a disrespectful judgment. Right now she is not interested in fixing the marriage and so she will just hear you preaching at her and trying to teach her things. She will just hear you saying you are smart, she is stupid, you have all the answers, she must do things your way. So do not talk about the marriage right now. There will be lots of time for that later.


Bravo!!! Well done.

If you can find out who his GF is I would tell her. She might leave OM, which means OM would have more time to pursue your WW, but OM's GF deserves to know that he is doing these things. What if OM's GF marries OM and one day discovers he has had several affairs? If you tell OM's GF now then maybe they will work on things and learn how to treat each other properly. Or maybe you will spare her from immense pain later. Either way, telling OM's GF is the right thing to do.

Again thanks for all the help. Some Update.

to ccbis,
OM called me. He was upset that I told (his boss and his mom). I told him that my marriage can be saved only if he go away. He said he will try to go away. But I don't think he is. I think they will simply hide their contacts better this time. My wife called him a day after that and she did not show any sign of withdrawal.

My wife was upset that I tell her mom. She said we should get a divorce since everyone know. But eventually, I caved and told her that only a few know (on her side). She seems to brighten up and did not talk more about leaving. I called her mom again saying that my wife will stay for two more years and may change her mind. So now my wife and her mom are talking again. I think because of this my wife warm up to me a little.

Still, she did not seems upset that the other guy has a GF. She told me that they broke up. But now she said that she did not really asked what happened. Now the OM's GF is moving out of town and OM said to my wife that they will eventually drift apart. He told my wife that he don't want to break the GF's heart. He is trying to be a bad BF and try to get GF to dump him.

OK, now my "current" plan is to stop all exposure (except may be OMGF). I will try to meet EN of my wife for about 2 years if I can last that long. She said that she will be with me for 2 years. I think WW and OM might have promised each other that they will be together after these 2 years. I will see what happen as we go along. I think this will be quite difficult since she did not love me for a long time (10+ years). And, I don't think I met her EN when she loved me.

I told my mom that we might eventually get a divorce. She was concerned about her grandsons. She offered to buy a condo in my name for me so my family can go to stay (we are now living with my parents). If we get a divorce, I will let my wife stay as long as she wants. I need to be sure that my sons will be well taken care of. We might move to a new place in half a year.

I think 2 years is not that long if I can regain my wife's love. Even if she decides to stay with me without love, I think I will take it. I don't know. I think my wife is warming up to me a little. I am not sure if she is trying to misled me or not.

I think you are setting up yourself for a slow self-destruction.

Follow the real plan A instead.

I though I am doing plan A. Can you please tell me what a real plan A should look like? More exposure? Less time limits?

Have you read this:

Plan A by Pepperband

And yes, exposure to the OMGF is a must (I see that your WW and OM have scared you and you did stop exposure?).

And yes, two years for plan A is way too long.

Hi,
I need more advice.........I can't think clearly.....HELP!!!

An update, most of this are told by my wife. So far the contact between OM and WW continues. I don't know how to break this up!!! I think my wife's concern about leaving me is how to tell the kids and her family (I told her mom already) and possible separation from the kids. I am afraid that if I tell more she will leave giving me less chance to meet her ENs. And, everyone asked me not to tell the kids!

Should I wait a little more (2-3 months) until I am ready for plan B to do more exposure?

Can I do plan B when we are staying in my parent's home? If I leave my own home. She will want to leave too since she does not like to be here. Should I get a new place first or should I try to make her leave?

Hola,

have you read the material on this site?

You need a plan and that plan will keep you on track and make you feel better.
your plan now is plan A. Read on that. Someone just bumped a thread called the carrot and stick of plan A. Read it.

You must expose to everyone, including the children. Yes the children must be told that their mother has a boyfriend and that when you are married it is not right to have a boyfriend. That�s all. They know something is wrong and if you don�t tell them what it is and stand up for yourself, and show them that you are in charge of the situation, they will be confused and probably feel that somehow it is their fault.

YOU DO NOT LEAVE your house, you do not give up your children. You tell your wife that you would like the marriage to be successful and to raise the children with her but if she doesn�t want to be a family then it�s up to her . YOU ARE STAYING WITH YOUR CHILDREN IN YOUR HOUSE.

And you also tell her that you do not accept that she has a boyfriend.

get some of these sentences in your head, and repeat them over and over and that�s what you tell her. Don�t talk of divorce, don�t make plans with her to continue her affair while you are paying for everything! that�s crazy!


read!
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...at&Number=2296184&gonew=1#UNREAD

Dear Hola,

What kind of advice do you need that is not given here already?


We told you, the most potent weapon to bust up affair is exposure but you stopped doing it.


MB advice is to tell everyone incl kids and be not afraid of WS anger for doing it.


If you are waiting with exposure, you are giving your WW the chance to spin the story and lie about true reasons about your marriage breakup.


Do not leave your marital home and keep your kids with you.


Hola, all the advice and examples you should use are already given in your thread or similar threads.
If you are thinking that your case is different or special you are badly mistaken.
Start with real plan A especially with stick part in it - exposure.

OK...I think I have a few more targets. Her dad, my son, and may be her younger brother. I emailed OMGF's roommate but no reply yet. I still undecided about my son. Everyone I told always said to me "please keep this secret"......I guess I will have to stay on the plan.....

OK...Can you help me prepare for what to come?

Suppose, I expose more and she want a divorce. I know that I should not discuss it. But then, what if she openly contact OM? What if she tried to get me to divorce her? What to do next?

One more, in plan A, I should make this home a comfortable place for her. But she hates it here. That is why I am trying to move first....I guess there is no time to do that.....right?

You do not leave your home.

I should tell you guys that all my financial stuffs are managed by my wife. She can move all my money freely. I must somehow get a hold of these first. She does not work. What should I do? Currently only about 10-20% are controlled by me. New income can be secured (but she will know)....

Hola, that has to change, NOW. Don�t tell her what you are going to do and get the finances under YOUR control. You realize that you are paying for her affair? If she says anything you just tell her that you are looking out for the family, for your children.

You must make a plan and give it a time frame, 1 month, 2 months whatever you think is feasible. then make a list of the conditions you are going to live under during this plan A phase based on the information you already have. For example, No relationship talk, calm and cheerful, no talk of divorce, doing housework or whatever other activity fulfills your wife�s emotional needs, taking care of your kids,etc.

The point of plan A is to show your wife the best man you can be, as a husband and father. It doesn�t mean being a doormat and it doesn�t mean pleasing her to the point of allowing her to have a lover! That is not acceptable to a real husband.

Read Patriot�s thread, where you will find lots of help about how to answer your wife when she questions you. write down what is useful.

Hi....I screwed up again....I just installed a keylogger and now she found out. A rookie mistake. She is mad now.I did not use it that much really it was on a different computer that she sometimes uses.

I also did a LOT of relationship talk...I just know I should not have. I talked about it like almost everyday at the beginning.

Lots of stuff to do and I am so tired. I lost more than 20 lbs already.


OK I will work on what you told me. I am thinking 4 months at most now. Finance first, I think she will only agree to hand over half of our money.

And, thank for being very patient with me....

Hola, calm down. Take your time to think things through.

NOW you will become a NEW PERSON, the husband and father that you WANT to be.

You can do it, and the way to start is to make the plan of how you are going to behave and act from now on and why you are doing it.

If you are convinced that you want your marriage and your family you will understand that it doesn�t matter if she gets angry because she found the keylogger because a WIFE SHOULDN�T HAVE SECRET RELATIONSHIPS WITH OTHER MEN so you are justified in snooping on her. See what I mean?

You are right. I need to be a man.

Well, I just send an email to her saying I am sorry for installing the logger. What a wimp! Normally, I am not really. Just to my wife. I am just powerless against her. I need to change that somehow.

OK, at least you realized that it was a mistake.

Now make the PLAN.

No more excuses for making her affair impossible, no more excuses for defending your family and your marriage, no more excuses for protecting your children, OK?

BTW, what country are you in?

I am a Chinese-blood living in southeast Asian country. Would this be enough?

yes that�s fine.

Some of us are NOT american or canadian or european... I am southamerican

What bother me is this...When I did my first round of exposure. My wife found out a day after when her mom did not talk to her and just cry. She send me an email saying that why should I involve other people...(I have seen this)...No one knew what happens between us. She love her mom but her mom can't change her mind. Her mom is not the person she is going to spend the rest of her life with. What she does make her happy so she is willing to chose it. At most, she will be a bad daughter and bad person in other people's eye. I could make her loss everyone and if that make me happy she cannot stop me. I think she sent the day OM called.

I saw it the next morning. Then I came running back home just to see her smiling talking to OM. I said what next. ANd, she just calmly said I guess a divorce. I told her I don't want a divorce and just trying to get help from the people I told. She said it does not matter since everyone know we should get a divorce. But, then I said that her father does not known and that seems to stop her wanting a divorce. And then she ask me to call her mom to try to give her hope which I said to her that my wife is upset but she will be here for a while and she might change her mind. And that seems to stop her mom from attempting to do more. BTW, her mom has a history of depression...That is why I reluctant to tell her at first.

What bother me was her calmness...I have not seen this in other posts.

Look, exposure doesn�t always produce immediate results although sometimes it�s really surprising. Did you see what happened to Patriot? he had given up on his marriage when he got here and he was told to expose. He stalled and stalled until he finally did it. All together and the next thing he knew, the M had dropped his wife!

Get it all done with. Expose to everyone that matters. After all you are only protecting your marriage by telling the truth.

Don�t discuss divorce. If she asks you say you are not interested in divorcing, you are interested in marriage, and marriage does not include boyfriends.

Don�t have discussions with her.

You should try o think of her as an alian who has taken over your wife�s body. This is NOT the person you married is it?

Tell her father, respectfully. Tell him that you are struggling trying to save your marriage because your wife is seeing other men and you would be grateful for any help he could give you.

Be calm, detached and insistant on the fact that you want your family to be a family, no strangers messing with your wife and your children.

BTW, you do not move out. If she doesn�t like the situation then she can go, but YOU DO NOT give her money to finance her affairs!

so get your finances straightened out ASAP.

Do you realize you are exposing your children to these other immoral men?

She mostly gave me the silence treatment this morning. I guess it is because she thinks I know more that she thought previously because of the keylogger.

Somehow I asked her about giving me some info and control about our finance. She said she will give all my money back and asked how much I will give her to spend monthly. I haven't though that through so I did not answer. Any suggestion? How many % of my income? This just happened today so I am going to read more on the net what other people do...

I saw a few tear dropped after that.

Hola,

YOU DON'T ASK HER TO GIVE YOU YOUR MONEY, YOU JUST TAKE OVER.

Act as if your wife is delusional, has been taken over by some evil spirit, so YOU have to take control.

where is your plan? have you written it out?

it doesn�t matter if she gives you the silent treatment, you continue acting calm, serene, positive, being a good husband and father.

DO NOT discuss affairs or divorce. DO NOT get into arguments. if you don�t know how to answer just say, let me think about that.....


ACT DETACHED

Hi, here is my plan

1) Do more exposure, all in one day. Only a few left: Her father, her brothers, one of her cousin, my son, OM's brother (emailed, he did not reply but have number now), OMGF (still no contact), may be called her mom and her aunt again.

2) Get my money back from her and give her allowance. I think this will take too long so exposure first. The money will still be there.

3) Do plan A for 3 months. Lots of travels to keep her from seeing the OM. Go places with no mobile signal.

4) Get her to leave (separate)....somehow without the children....


5) NC ...Should I allow her to see the children?


6) D after 6 months of separation. NC

About exposing my son, the thing is I live in a big family with my dad, mom, a brother and his wife and a few servants under the same roof. My son is quite innocent and may tell others. If all of these people know, then my wife would hate it here. She hates my mom already. I am trying to make it comfortable here for my wife....Should I just tell and hope for the best? I did not tell many of my family since they don't interact with my wife anyway...I only need support from my mom.

Is it looking OK?

Your plan is NOT to get her to leave without the children, your plan is to get her to believe in your marriage again.

But if exposure makes her too uncomfortable, as it SHOULD if she is a decent person, she may want to leave and that�s where YOU have to be prepared to keep your children in the family home. Do you understand the difference? You don�t want her to leave but you can�t control what she does and she may want to leave. NO WAY are you to let her take the children and the reason is that she is seeing strange men and you don�t want your children exposed to those men.

About teling your son, he needs to know that you are having problems and that it�s because his mother has a boyfriend which is not a correct thing when you are married. Keep it simple because he�s young, but he needs to know that he can talk to YOU about what he feels because otherwise who knows what his imagination is telling him about what he perceives. You have to be his confidant and reassure im that no matter what happens you will be there for him and that his mother also loves him very much.

Hola, do the people you live with not know yet?

My mom and one of my brother (just moved out last week) know.
My dad and the other brother and his wife do not know.
My "long-served, trusted, but may gossip" servant did not know.
The other servants and workers did not know.

My mom don't want near by family to know. My family will lose "face".

I know that "saving face" might be important in some cultures.

Only you can decide what is more important, your marriage or saving face.

If your mother and your wife don�t get along, your mother knowing won�t have much effect on her. The best people to expose to are those your wife respects and admires. Focus on them.

Pepperband posted the whole of the description of how to do plan A here: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2296184

You can also read all Gary44�s thread because his experience is similar to yours

I am have been thinking about more exposure. I think only the strongest target left is her father and my son. I don't know about the father. Everyone said he is weird and I don't see him talk to my wife much. But WW and OM are still in contact by phone/email. I can't detect if the meet now.

Anyway, I think I will do it on Monday. Just need to think about who to tell. I am struggling to include her siblings and more relatives. I don't want to do too much. But if too little, there will be no effect and I don't want another round of non-important target.

I talked to her about handing over the finance. She said if I want all. I said yes. She was angry after that saying that she want a divorce and she might not be with OM in the future but certainly not with me. She said that I am trying to use money as a bait. She want a divorce and want to know how much she will get. I said I don't want a divorce and walk away. Now, nothing change but I just give her a love buster with no gain....

Which love buster?

Exposure will not work without doing it. Thinking about exposing just doesn't have the same effect.

OK, can people here help me with the exposure list?

Exposed (Jan 17-20)
WW side: mom, aunt, a cousin
OM side: mom, boss, brother (email-no reply), two of OM's friends (turn out they are not close friend)
OMGF side: her roommate (2 email-no reply)
My side: my mom, a brother

Next Round (Feb 1)
WW side: father, all siblings, one more cousin
OM side: father (I only found his mom at home. I think she may not tell him. His mom might be helping her son. Not sure how to reach him), two more of his friends (trying to get OMGF's contacts),
My side: my son

Actually there are lots of target on my wife side since I know them well just don't have the numbers. But I don't want to include them and think they will not matter much anyway.

I would like to concentrated on the OM but it is so difficult to get more target. Weak spots are on the OM side which I can't reach much. On OM's side I will keep on searching for more exposure.

Should I called the person I told again to say that they are still in contact?


About, my plan

I think after this either my wife will file for D or, if she did not, they will continue their contacts anyway after this.

So, I will continue with my plan A. Her EN should be communication and affection. However, without her love, she simply wont open up...

If OM did not brake off in about 3 months...I will go plan B...

About the plan, let�s be more specific:


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.
which are they? you will have to guess. What are you doing to fulfill them?
Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.
What are you doing about this?

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.
What did she like when you were dating?

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.
What are the areas YOU need to improve and what are you doing about it?

Stop lovebusting behaviors.
What are your lovebusting behaviours and what are you doing about them?

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.
Write down the answers that you may need so that when she talks to you about divorce, or moving out or the OM you will know how to answer.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.
get the exposure donw with once and for all! Tell her father and anyone wlse who may have an influence on her.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.
write down the answers to possible accusations from her because of exposure. Many good ones have been suggested on Patriot�s thread

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.
Write down convenient phrases to express the hurt and devastation she is causing you so that you are prepared to say them when the moment is right

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.
This is something you have to work on but since you are now a NEW man, I hope you will be able to make it clear to her

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.
Do not protect her from the consequences of her infidelity

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.
Remember that telling your child is to protect him, and to let him know that you are available to him. Keep him away from the OM. He is YOUR child.
What are you doing about the financial aspects?

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.
remember you are doing this for your family. DO NOT accept a third person in the marriage, that does not make a family

hola, are your exposure targets talking to your wife and using their influence to try and persuade her to end her affair? Hopefully they are, because in order for exposure to be effective, she MUST KNOW THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE KNOW.

I would get these other exposures done NOW. Ideally it should all be done at the same time. Dragging it out weakens its effect. Tell as many people as possible. Exposure is a good thing, not a harmful thing. And when you call her father ask him to call her and use his influence with her.

Hi, Thanks so much. I think your list will be very useful.


I think it is communication and affection. I am getting about 0.5-1 hours of talking time (alone) a day. I found it easiest to talk about our relationship but that will have to change. I also think she likes my complements but this will have to be delivered at a good moment. Now after I talk to her about our finance, she stop giving me time now...


2)

Not sure now. At fist, I thought I will move our family to a condo. But people here are against this and there is no time now.
I will try to clean the house. But my house is a mess. My wife bought lots of books and have a room filled with cloth. She gets mad at me if I try to tidy up the room. I guess I should start somewhere. I also bought flowers and dessert for her once or twice a week now. I help take care of the baby which I always do.

3)

I have to think about this. Dining, walk around shopping, talk...


4)

I stop watching TV now. No more angry outburst, silence treatment, disrespectful judgment (this is hard to recognize), call her names (I was just trying to be funny).



I think I will say "I only want to save our marriage" and walk away. Other than that I will have to read now.







I will tell the father and my son. Her mom and her aunt are the only ones that she talks to. I will tell her siblings too but they will probably say nothing.....

To MelodyLane

Her mom cried once when she came to help take care of our toddler and write a letter. Her aunt also send an email to my wife.

I think if when I tell more, my son would talk to my wife and my wife would then know that more people know. Her siblings will probably do nothing. They hardly talk to my wife.

Yes, I am going to ask her father to call my WW. I am not sure though what will happen. He rarely speaks to my wife. Everyone said he is the weird one...

To ccbis


This is complicated. My wife have most of our money in stock and bonds on her brokerage account. I don't know if I can do anything but I will divert all new money to a new account. BTW, she also manages renting money from my property. This can be easily diverted.

About, your question on love buster when I try to ask for financial control. I think it is disrespectful judgment = saying that I don't trust her....

Hola , I have to g out now but I�ll be back in a little while and will write more.

You don�t say you don't trust her, it�s only that you have to protect your family and if she�s having a relationship with an OM she�s using your family�s funds to do that.

You think of it as her leaving the family and she doesn�t get to take with her what belongs to the family, so your prepare for that.

Hi,

I did not say to her that I did not trust her. She think that half of money is hers. I am not sure how to do this now but I think she will agree to hand over half first. Need to worry about exposure first, I think. I am not worry too much about losing money but concern that she will be too comfortable in Plan B or able of taking my sons away.

BTW, what if my wife ask whom I told? I have been reading posts but could not find answer to these. Should I said I don't want to tell and let her think that everyone know?

Sorry, have to go to bed now. So tired.

You tell her who knows.

No need to lie, but don�t make it sound as if it�s revenge. Remember you are doing this to save your marriage and your family.

OK going to expose now. Just to make sure WW's mom is out of the house and call her dad...
...
...
OK mostly done...

Still reluctant about my son this afternoon. Also, I feels strange to call back the same house and ask for another member of the family to tell. So I still did not call WW's younger brother. But, I did call WW's bigger brother. So only two targets left now.

Now I can contact OM's brother. Still no leads to the OMGF! I am contacting a PI to do this.

OK, I am done exposing on my wife side now - her father, two brothers, one cousin, and one uncle.

I can only reach OM's brother. Only a friend of his won't answer my call. I called him once already but trying to get more OM's friend out of him. Hoping to reach OMGF....Will keep trying here...

I also told my son. He seems not quite understand. He seems a bit sad, did not cry or want to talk to WW. But I think he will will not tell the servants. I guess kids here grow up slower than elsewhere. I feel sorry for telling him now thought. Somehow, I feel that I should not include him. I am quite worry about his academic performance. He is a math genius really.

So far there is no reaction from my wife this evening. Her father told me he will talk to her mother first this evening.

Again, she did not came out of her room and keep surfing the web. Now, I learned to check her mood before trying to get in and talk. Anyway, I am not sure if there is something wrong with her mentally. She bought lots of children's cloth, her cloth, toys, children's book. We have a room filled with her cloth. She share her room with the two sons. Her room is filled with books, and stacks of cloth, and toys fill a play pen. But again, she was like this from the beginning. I have been sleeping in another room since long time ago.

I will need to read and be prepared for my wife's response now.
Thanks for all the encouragement on exposure.

Hi Hola,

You did good on the exposure. Now have patience and wait for the effects. It�s not necessarily an instantaneous reaction. Just be calm and determined. Continue with plan A.

Last night I read a whole thread on MB, a man with 5 children whose wife had had an A 10 years previously but had never admitted it. His eldest son was 10 at the time. When he started posting and finally got his wife to admit that she had had an affair (10 years previously) he also found out that his son had witnessed it, and hated his mother for it. He had also carried it around with him for 10 years thinking he was protecting his father. Can you imagine how painful that must have been for the child?

So you have to show your son that you are willing to listen to him, and reassure him that you will always love him and be there for him. That�s the main point of telling the child.

Thanks, it was difficult for me just with this short list of exposure targets. I spend like 30 min thinking if I should tell for each person I told.

Again, thanks for your support. I really needed it. I wish I posted earlier here. I kept trying to find posts with similar situation but I can't seem find any. Vets here would not agree with me, I guess. Lots of wasted time for me. I was also afraid of exposure so I kept trying to find posts with no exposure but also a success. I only found one by "K". I was trying to follow his steps. Anyway, I will keep reading and posting.

Calm down Hola. Just plan A, detached, no LBs and wait.

Time is simportant and you can�t hurry it.

Exposure is not only important when the A is detected but also long term in the sense that if the A iss not brought out into the open now, it will continue to be a huge elephant in the middle of any relationship you might have with your wife.
it�s a life changing event for everyone, and if it�s out in the open, you can deal with it, get the help you need. At the very least you have the CHOICE to deal with it, and so do your children and families.

If it�s not exposed it will continue to fester.

Helpthelostdads posted this on another thread. I think it could be useful for you:

Thanks! It was an interesting read. I have done lots of don't in the list. But I think some of these are not really in line with Plan A? In plan A, I need to meet her EN. So, like, buying gifts and dates should be good, right? I also needed to compete with OM on her EN of conversation.

However, I agree that I should try to move on now (not just giving appearance of moving on) and become a new person. Find what I want to do with myself. I really needed to stop feeling hurt and tired all day long. I think I am in a withdrawal myself and loving my wife less and less. I think, in a way, this is a good thing. I will be able to sleep better and deal with her treatment of me better.

BTW, may I ask why my signature does not show?

Update... Now my wife know that I did something. She does not talk to me now and seems angry. She wrote me an email saying that she still insists on her decision [to divorce me], what I did only make things more difficult [to solve], this matter will end soon, and I did not do what I told her I will. [I ask her on D-day to stay (2 months ago) and I would get a place for her to stay with my kids after divorce. Said that her feeling is the most important thing to me. Said that she can stay as long as she likes and decide on her own time. I may have told her that I will not tell more. Not sure what else]

Should I reply to her email? What should I write?

I am thinking this:

I am only trying to save our family. What I did, I only did it because I love you.

Any advice are disparately needed. Should I add some remarks on how hurt and devastate her A has caused me?

BTW, should I email all OM's Facebook friend? and keep exposing on the OM side? Not many important target with contact info on my list now, though. OMGF can't still be contacted. Actually, today, I found another brother of OM (younger). I called and he said he will talk to OM. He said that it might be our marriage that is the problem. But, then, I said that it may be so but we should not look outside marriage to solve it. After this, he seems to be eager to help. I wish I told other with this line!

How about these?

I only tried to save our family. Do you know that your constant contact with OM also hurt me deeply. But I did not do all of this out of revenge. I did everything because I love you. I hope you will see it someday.

Hi Hola,

sorry I haven�t answered before but I don�t have access to MB while at work.
I think the second option better.

She is sure to get angry, but that is something that they all do, every wayward gets angry when they are exposed. You just stick to plan A and ignore it. You see, exposure works.

All this takes time. Be patient. She�s reacting.

Thanks for your encouragement. I am sending the mail. Hoping she will not move out soon.

Somehow this thread is not very popular, isn't it?

Again, thanks.

send the mail. make it short. Don�t worry if she leaves, that would not be unexpected. I also suspect she would soon be back...

You must be the strong one through all this and in spite of the hurt.

some threads are too popular and others are not... I don�t know why.

If you think you need more help, start a new thread with a specific question and you may get more replies.

Oh, please don't start a new thread, that makes things too confusing.

ccbis is right though, some threads are popular and some are not. I think the more popular ones are the ones where the person posts about what they are doing and thinking, and trying hard to grow. The less popular ones are the ones where the poster has a lot of reasons that all the advice will not work for them.

Hola hola,

Her angry reaction is expected. You are bursting the bubble of her fantasy world. Avoid arguing or trying to educate her. At this stage, she is not going to be able to reason anything you tell her. She sees you in such a negative way that any explanation of what you're doing to save your family is going to be completely pointless to her.

Just be there for her but avoid any emotionally loaded conversations. Don't talk about D. Whenever she tries to bait you into arguments you just change topic - say something like: "I'm thirsty, I am going to the kitchen to get something to drink. Do you want me to get you something? If she starts yelling or says anything abusive tell her that her behavior is unacceptable and you're not talking to her while she's angry and walk out of the room.

Be prepared for her behavior to be really nasty for a couple of weeks. Be strong for you marriage and your children. You can do it.

Te deseo lo mejor.

--ElCamino72

Hi, thanks all the support, I really needed it.

When my wife is angry, she will just give me the silence treatment or say do not bother her. This morning she also stayed in her room with the door locked. She usually remembers all my mistakes and probably repeating it in her head over and over, making it a big deal. I think I will need to somehow make her vent her anger and not keeping it in. Otherwise, she will be angry for a long time...Don't know what to do though...

Hola, you don�t do anything to make her vent her anger. You just continue making yourself a better person, a better father and act as though you are ready and prepared to take over the family if she is not going to be a part of it.

She has to face her own demons. You cannot do it for her. remember, act detached.

After all she engaged in the affair without asking you for your opinion, didn�t she?

Thanks, I will do that.

Today, she is not talking to me again. She does not look that upset though. She did went out and come back looking happy. I think she went to see OM again, every WED at least. I know I am suppose to try to stop their meeting but I have works to do and if I ask her she will just deny it. In notable post, one of them say don't interfere with A, it will die of natural death. Is this the time to do that (not interfering) since A was exposed? However, given the length of time they were dating (1year), and how long WW tried to get him notice (2-3years), this A would be called entrenched, right? So, I guess the question is what to do with on-going A? I will have to compete with OM but do I interfere too?

Anyway, she just send me an email with an article about letting go of loved one. Depressing, isn't it. She seems determine to leave.

Is there something I can do to stop feeling hurt, anxious, and tired all day long?
At least posting her make me feel a little bit better.

That is interfering with the A. As long as you tell her that the A is hurting you and the children and the family you are interfering. Of course you interfere always, in the sense that you do not facilitate the A. You will never be able to stop her from seeing OM by just telling her not to or locking her up, but you ALWAYS insist that the A is hurting your family.

According to Harley you follow a plan:
1st plan A in an effort to break up the affair and give your marriage a chance and also to prepare for plan B. From what you�ve said you were not the perfect husband before. your objective in plan A is also to become the best husband you can so that if you do go to plan B she will have that image of you as her last one. If you do not go to plan B then you will be in much better conditions to remake your marriage, a new one with better chances of happiness.

Plan A only works to break up the affair in 15% of cases.

2nd you go to plan B. When you find you can no longer tolerate plan A you give her a plan B letter and YOU HAVE NO CONTACT AT ALL with her while the affair is on going. You have to prepare for this.

So where are you in these plans? How long do you think you will keep up plan A? Are you preparing for plan B? In your case it means having someone to help you ith the children, you also need an intermediary so that your wife can visit them, etc.

Hola check out this excellent post about loving detachment made by Bob Pure:
loving detachment

OK, I sometime say it but she always said then we should be divorced. Then I just let it go.

I am still writing Plan A with the outline you gave me. I wrote down earlier that I will do it for 4 months (6 after D-day, but 1 months was wasted without MB). But I think I might do it longer.

But I think I should be prepared for her quick escape. From what I read, I can still do plan A but not very effective, right? Do I go to plan B directly? Anyway, I think her Aunt can be the IM. I still have to think about how to keep the kids with me though...and the financial thing... I just want her out of being angry with me first.

Hola, she will be angry with you as long as you are her perceived problem to not getting her way with the affair, so forget it.

you can�t have her happiness (affair, OM,) and YOUR marriage. It won�t work will it?

Always interfere and never finace a WW's affair.

Time for a real time GPS hidden in WW's car so you will know where WW goes on Wednesday.

Hi, she wrote me an email again. This is depressing. I guess I should not have reply to the first one she wrote to me. The one with the article.

She said that I am still living in the past. I should accept the current situation. To her, it is clear she do not want to be with me. She never love me and we don't have the same thinking.

She said that her love cannot be created because all the time she try she never loved me. The real problem is that we should not have married. Everything in the past of our relationship means nothing to her.

She does not want to stay with me anymore. The problem is not the other man. The only problem is that she never loved me and don't think she will. She only stayed for the kid in the past and will leave one day anyway. She want freedom.

She never loved me.

This looks bad. Same stuffs she said on D-Day but more hurtful. This does not look like she is in the FOG. I am quite sure that she fell out of love before the A. What should I do? At least, I would like to ask her to stay for a few more months. I am also worry about the kids.

She is in the fog, hola. Trust us.

Fred, it is definitely time for a drive-by-pie-ing. You choose the flavor.
You pay my airfare to Va., and I will pie her( maybe two pies,one for each fake boob).

I just called her. She said that it is good that I told her father. Now she does not have to tell him herself. She don't want to talk to me since I just try to get info and use it for my own gain. I did not do what I promised. (I might have promised her that I will not tell more.) She said nothing change except she does not want to talk to me now and hang up.

....

OOPs. I meant to post that on Fred's thread. hola, we can drop a pie on your wife, as well.

Will try. But she only walks, taking taxi, or train.

OK. I have been reading Fred's thread too.

And Hola,

They ALL say they don't love you or never loved you....it is part of the script (the lines all of them say).

Yes, I have seen it here many times. But what if it is true? Looking back, I am sure my wife fell out of love with me even before we get married! I am just too stupid to fix it then (10+ years).

What if it is true? Should I change my plan? I have read some post/article here about wife check out of marriage. Should I try to include solution to that problem too? But again, the Vets here would say that there no change with OM in the picture right?.

Hola, what if the moon is made of green cheese? What if pigs could fly? What if a politician told the truth?

Do not waste your time worrying about "what ifs." Your job right now is to focus on "what is."

Hola,

Stick to your plan.

Stop the "what ifs".

Be consistent in your plan. Whatever happens YOU need to know what YOU want to be as the head of your family.

You have not been the head of your family uptil now. It�s time you become that. Think of your children. What kind of example are you for them?

ccbis, you are right!

I will need to start to be the head of the family. I will need to remember that. I have been relying too much on my wife. I need to make sure we can go on living even without my wife. I have to keep that in mind!

That�s right Hola.

Your wife is not leading the familyin a good direction. You have to take over.

and if she leaves, well, you�ll have to deal with that for your kids sake.

But wouldn�t you be a better father than the OM your wife is into?

Yes, I think I would! I really appreciate your constant support.

Update: My wife starts talking to me a little today. I was hoping she will be upset longer than this. I think the next step would be trying to slip in some boundary issues: A is not acceptable, family fund should not be used for her A, etc. Then I will try to get control of our finance without too much stress on her. Things will probably go slow from now for a while....I am going to plan the plan A some more.

Remember: Detachment. patience.

Hi, some updates...

My wife talked to me a little to day but still upset sometimes. Today, her cousin told me that she has arranged a counseling session with a doctor and my wife agreed to it yesterday. It will be more than 1 month away. Vets here will say that this MC will be a waste of time with A, right? But I guess I will have to go.

This cousin and her younger brother seem to be persuaded by my wife that the problem is not the OM but our relationship. This is exactly what my wife tried to tell me. I tried to tell that they are right, but now with A, I cannot make any progress with her. Although A is not the root cause of the problem, we will have to start with stopping A. Still, they seems to urge me to fix our relationship first???? I guess my wife was very persuasive.

Anyway, I am planing to do plan A for a while. I know some people here advised against it, but I might move our family to a new place away from my parents. I might score big here. I will have to talk to my wife first. I told her earlier that I will find a place for our family, move there, and if she still decide to brake up with me, I will simply leave. I will make sure she understand that I don't intend to do that anymore - that I will not leave the new place.....What do you guys think? My wife really hates it here and she feels isolated, alone in stranger's house....I should have done this long time ago. But right now, I am not sure.

Actually Hola, I think it�s a good idea to get your own place and move there.

BUT you have to be convinced yourself that if the A continues, you will stay there with your children and she can move out.

You don�t need to tell her that now, you can always say that that is a home for your family and if she ever says something about YOU leaving, tell her that you will stay to protect your children from the people she gets together with and therefore you will stay and she can go. She �s free to leave whenever she wants after all.

Hi, thanks coming from you it means a lot to me.

It has been depressing in the pass few days. My wife was upset with me from time to time, sometime with angry outburst. I think I was too meek at the receiving end. I think it makes her even more upset. I should be more cheerful but it is really hard to do. I can't start any conversation with her. I managed to slip in a compliment today though. This is hard...I think I will write to her too (email/sms/card). She used to send me a card every week for the 2-3 years when we were apart. So, I think that might be important to her somehow.

She did not went to see her family this weekend. I used to take her to do that once a week. I think her father contacted her and that is the reason of the hurtful email earlier. We did went to her Aunt's home. That is the other family that I told about her A. Her cousin was enthusiastic about helping us and arrange an MC for us. Somehow my wife agreed to it. She did not on the D-day when I suggested it.

However, I just found out about my MC session. Actually, it will be with a doctor (psychiatrist). I am not sure how "pro-marriage" the doctor will be. My wife may just want to show that she "tried". I don't know. There will be a relationship talk and I will have to be honest with my answer without the LB...somehow....It will be tough for me.

Hola, thesenext few weeks and probably months are called a rollercoaster, and that�s because there will be mainly bad days at first a eventually there will be good and bad days...

It is still too soon to know what will happen.

MC is good, that�s a step in the right direction. Since you have time you should re read all Dr. Harley�s advice. Read about his plan so that when you go to the MC you can tell him that you are pro marriage and ask him what his plan is to recover your marriage.
How is your plan A coming along?

Hi,

About my plan A, I wrote down goals and objectives (mostly from what you gave me). Now, I am trying to write down concrete actions. Since, I have not met my wife's EN for a long time, I guess I don't have many idea. I have been reading posts by HopeThisWork. The situation is similar but his wife love him more than mine love me. He posted with lots of details. I can get some advise there and try to write it down. It is hard to do at this point though. Here is what I have for meeting my wife's EN:

Affection
Ask her what she would like to get today, before leaving in the morning.
Send sms/email to her during the day while I work.
Buy flowers for her once a week.
Give her a card every 2 weeks?
Buy lunch and have it delivered to her.
Ask about her day, when arrived at home

I did most of these already...

Conversation:
Use open end questions.
Try to keep the our talk as long as possible. (I used to end all conversation quickly after several exchange.)
Look at her eye. (I always look away when talk to people.)

Admiration:
Compliment her. I think this is easiest to do whenever she is in a good mood. Mostly she took it with a smile.

What do you think?

Good Hope.

make sure the changes you make are ones that you plan to keep. The whole point is o make yourself a bettr person, whatever happens.

What about teh children, do you spend time with them?
what activities do you do as a family?

I have to go to work and I don�t have access to MB while there so I�ll check on you later on when I get home.

Do you know if she still has contact with the OM?

Exactly, I cannot tell now that she is still in contact. She used to tell me that they are. But after I told her father, she no longer tell me. It is going to be hard. Can I tell somehow from her emotion? WW was a friend on OM's facebook but no longer there but this is just my wife blocking public access I think. She might have remove her account. Those are stuffs I used to gather info. for the exposure.

About the kids, I plays with them before they go to bed for about half an hour. They and my wife all go to bed at 8pm so I have very little time with them. But I think this is why my wife and my sons are quite intelligent.

On weekend, I took them to my wife's parent on Sat. I just sat around or sleep. We usually come home late. On Sunday, we go out for lunch, shopping and buy grocery. She went to shopping by herself. But sometime met with OM (from my snooping). But she started to let me join her buying grocery. Not much conversation there since my wife keep calculating in her head. We stay home in the evening. My plan is to do some cooking or other thing with my elder son during that time and hope my wife will join. We made sushi last Sunday and my wife stayed around and tasted it.

I though last Sunday was bad. It was actually OK compared to today. She did not even look at me most of the time. She said that I am stupid trying to change the diaper or something along that line. She is very upset today but still hold it in.

What does this mean?

Hola, are you seeing yourself as the head of the family now?

Are you understanding better now what your role as husband and father should be?

Keep up the good work. remember to be cheerful, act sure of yourself even if you are not quite convinced yet, be the man of the house.

you should try to do some spying to find out if you wife is still involved with anyone.

the family activities are great. that�s what you should try for... anything that brings you togetner as a family.

Thanks, I will try to be the head of the family. Anyway, I think I should start doing things that needs to be done if my wife is not here. Learn what she does now for the family. However, I am not sure what should I do. Most family I know, my parents', her parents', and our family, mostly the mother does all the family related stuffs and the father only works to feed the family. However, my mom and her mom also have a job but my wife doesn't.

I also located most of my money. It is in my name anyway so hold it will be easy. But I will not do anything now. I am going to wait until my wife is less upset and see.

About spying, it has been difficult. I heard that I can get a phone record from PI. I will need to look into that. I am trying to set up someway to determine her going out pattern. I think there is a post here about spying, I will study it.

About that sentence you ask, I am trying to say that since my wife and my sons sleep a lot (10 hours) each night. They are very smart (at least academically).

I am seeing another doctor tomorrow, IC first. Her cousin found me this one because this one is available now.

Hi,

This does not look good. My wife did not talk to me for two days now. This morning too. I think she is still in contact with OM. She showed no sign of withdrawal. The way I know about my wife, I think her A will not be broken easily. At least, it will take more time. She just angry with me for exposure, I think. Now, I can't meet her EN too.

I am not sure why she was warmer toward me last weekend. May be OM is trying to break off this week?

Hola you don't really know what�s going on. Just keep being cheerful, consistent, friendly and detached.

You have to be consistent or she won�t believe you!

Have patience. It might take time. It could mean she has contact or she�s in withdrawal....

Hi,

I just checked my bond account. Most of the money is gone now. Don't know where my wife took it. I am not sure what will happen next. My wife might just move it around or trying to give it back to my like she said. Or, she might plan an escape soon.

I am not sure if I should confront her now or wait to see first. The money is gone any way. This is not a good sign.

ccbis, can I send you a private message?

Private messages are not allowed here but you can e mail me at xxxxx
dosn�t look good about the money. You have to take control

Sorry, false alarm. The money was moved long time ago. So, now, looks like I can't get control of my money again...

I tried to get PM to you because I though my wife might found out about this site. Since, I saw her doing some Internet banking around the time I posted that I found the money. I will need to be more careful about posting in the future. I also should be more careful when talking to the doctors too. I usually don't have to have so many secrets!

Anyway, this would be the fifth day that my wife stop talking to me (mostly). I just getting tired of this whole thing.

Anyway thanks for giving me your email. I will try not to use it.

You can use it Hola, if you need to.

I won�t be posting much here because I don�t have much time anymore. Holidays are over.

You really have to take control of your family, especially for your sons� sake. Get control of the money and of your household. Be the man and husband your wife will admire and respect, be the father our sons will adore. Whatever happens, be a better father because your children will always be yours.

I don�t think you need to keep many secrets, after all the affair should be public knowledge, right? And most of the other stuff is you preparing to be a single father if your wife decides not to be part of the family.

It�s not convenient that your wife read your posts at this moment, but if she should find marriagebuilders and is interested it�s not a bad idea for her. If you are worried that she may identify you take out some of the info on your sig line.

or you can change your screename.

Hi,

About the our money, it is not much compared to what I own (given to me by my parents) or will get later. From what I know, those are mine alone unless I die before we divorce. I guess I will need to talk to a lawyer soon. I can support my kids easily but probably will not get custody of them. This is sad. Is it a good idea to try to negotiate with her and ask her to leave without the kids in Plan B?

I just found out that she did not talk to me for the last four days because she saw on her mom mobile that I called. She is angry that her mom is on my side and trying to impede the A. So, I guess A is still on-going.

Today she came out with me. She talked to me OK today. Athought this makes me feel better, I know this means nothing now (with on-going A). I have a chance to ask her out just the two of us and she said no....

I think I will prepare for another round of assault on OM. That is where the weak spot is. But I will wait for a while first - gathering info. Any idea here?

Hey Hola,

how was the weekend?

Hi, glad to hear from you again.

The weekend was OK. We went to a local kid's museum. Then, my wife took my son to his music lesson. Again, I suspected that she met OM again for about an hour. After that, I bought a heart-shaped USB necklace for her saying that it should be used for my stuffs not others. She smiled strangely. I think she smiles like that when speaking of OM. So, I guessing she would not be using it as I request. She might even gave it to OM already...

Anyway, yesterday was the valentine day. I bought her a card and a few hair clips (which she knows about). She just let it sit on the table and only took it after we came back from shopping. Anyway, we went to BIL house in the morning. Her father used to come but did not. I guess it is a way to tell her that he did not approve of her action. Then we went to lunch. She did not even let me sit next to her...

After that she went shopping alone. I told her I wanted to come along but she refused. I said that I think she might see OM and she just said that is not her concern. I said that it is not good to let me take care of the kids while she see OM and she started to walk away. So, I told her to take my younger son with her but she simply walked away. So I went with my two sons to a book store. About 2.5 hours after that she finished her shopping and asked me if I want to buy cloths (I told her last week). So, we went to buy my cloths..

I really not that hurt about all these. I guess my love for her is running low now. I started to thinking about divorcing her and go to plan B. But my mom wanted me to wait a few more months first. She is against any action at this point (more exposure or others). I think I might be able to hold out. I think I have not had my EN meet much by my wife all these years. So a few more month would not hurt me much.

Anyway, my concern is that OM just got his Master degree. Waiting longer and he could be ready financially. But, I guess I will have to take my chances.

I started to feel detached like you said. I guess I will just used this time to improve myself and figure out what I want to do in the future.

Good morning Hola,

I think you may have some confusion about the plans Dr. H proposes. You are in plan A trying to break up the affair while at the same time working on yourself to correct those things that YOU acknowledge have contributed to making your marriage less than ideal.

Plan A should last at the most a few months. One of the reasons for ending plan A is that you are losing your love for your wife. If that happens and you still want to give the marriage a chance, you separate , that is you go to plan B.

Plan B is about working on yourself to be prepared for whatever happens and to PROTECT yourself from the hurt of your wife�s actions, words etc. if you go to plan B you are not yet planning on divorce but if it is inevitable you will be better prepared.

It�s up to you. Remember you cannot control her, you cannot make her stop the affair, but what you can do is work on yourself to make yourself the person she fell in love with and out of your compassion, give her a chance to repent. But thsi canot go on forever...

Hi,

I am going to try for 6 months at least. It has been 2.5 months from D-day. I think HopeThisWork tried for about 6 months with 6 more trying to get his wife to leave. "K" did it for 1 year without exposure until his wife leave him.

I think that since divorce is not common around here. There might be a lot of pressure for my wife to make it work with OM after divorcing from me. She also might want to "prove" to her family that her decision is a good one.

I actually talked to my MIL about separation in hope of getting her back later. However, my MIL does not think it is possible for my wife to come back at that point. I will have to talk to her more about her point of views and reasons. But my mom is more open to the idea. My mom is concerned more about the children. She wants me to hold on a long as possible but it is up to me.

I think separation but still married is better than D. I will try that first. Is my understanding correct that separation is almost the same as D but we will still be legally married and we can put in any condition we agreed upon in the agreement? Since, we are still married, it will be easier to get back together, right? I will need to talk to a lawyer. I still did not do that.

Hi, I just finished HopeThisWork threads. I thought he reconciled with his wife but I guess he did not! This is disappointing for me since his situation is similar to mine....

Edited: Just found out that HopeThisWorks and his wife are recovering....Happy for him

Hi, an update here,...

It is now 3 weeks after the second round of exposure. I am more positive now that A is still on-going. She never said that she will stop contacting OM. My wife also stayed in her room most of the time and did not talk to me on weekdays. On weekend, however, she talked to me better.

I can't seems to stop the A. I think it will be hard. OM is the only friend of my wife. She has no one else to talk to now....

The question is if A is still on-going, should I still do plan A as planed (for 6 month after D-day) or should I cut it short? It is realistic to expect A to die by itself in 6 months (that being the average). I planned a trip for our family, which my wife want to go in the end of April. I think that will be the time to start plan B if A is still on-going.

I am now trying to say something when I suspect she is sending text message to OM or going to see him. MIL also tried to help babysit less but my wife just take the boy to their meetings. I could also try to follow her and confront OM at their meeting...Is this a good idea?
Or should I just hire PI to take pictures?

For her own selfish reasons, she is destroying a family that includes her two sons. I would tell her exactly that with no flowery words, just be blunt.

She is on an affair "High," that is similar to what people have when they are taking meth or crack cocaine. I would tell her that in those exact words.

Eventually, the affair high will just. . . stop. It is the way brain chemicals work. This is why very, very few affairs work long term: about 5%. BUT of course, from almost a hundred percent of them, you hear all this gag me stuff like.

1. My best friend for life.
2. My soul mate.
3. He/She is perfect.
4. We will be so happy forever.

And other garbage. It is if those in an affair get a brain injection (or lower down) that makes them say and do the same stupid things. People who are in an affair should carry a sign that says, "I'm stupid."

Then one day, the PEA (chemical) will stop being produced and the only thing that will hold them together is pride and ego cause the romance has stopped. It ALWAYS does.

And your wife will ride the Karma Bus. And she will then understand the sign.

Unless you can stop her now. And stopping her will depend on how much pressure you can put on her. Like total exposure.

Larry

Hi Hola,

Has your wife admitted to the affair?

I don�t think it is a good idea to confront the OM. Better get the PI and document it.

Plan A is a plan when the affair is ongoing so yes, that is the plan you are in. But if you don�t think you can continue you go to plan B. In your case plan B includes taking the baby away from her so you need to plan for that.

I think you should tell your wife that she is not to take the child with her to meet her lover. You have to stop that!It is very damaging for the child.

Hi Larry, thanks for your comments.

That is exactly what my wife said. After I read a number of posts here, I starts to see it too. She said things like: OM is the one, The kids will be OK if we divorce amicably, I am selfish for exposing, She never loved me, OM has nothing to do with our situation (actually, a few of her relatives believe her on this one). But, have your heard of this one: This is what made her happy, so she has the right to do it. At most, she will only be seen as a bad woman.

The only thing that bug me that we actually had a bad marriage from the beginning. She will have to reach back 10+ years to see her love for me. I am sure this will be a deal breaker if we ever get to recovery.

About the chemical high, I actually told her that. From what read, it usually last for about 2 years, right? So, hers would be over due by now. She was fixated with OM for about 3 years already (but has constant contact for about 1 year)

About exposure, I think I did pretty good job on her. I included all relatives that have regular contact with her. I did not tell her friends since she does not have any close friend. Only after I told her father that she got upset! About OM, I could try to reach his father and his GF. But seems like his brothers and his friend don't have any contact and she is moving away too. However, if I can get evidence of PA, I might be able to get OM fired. I am not sure about this since he is not permanently on payroll. But so far, from my snooping, there is no PA.???

About the pressure of exposure, her father wrote a letter, her mom cry once and try to come to baby sit late, her aunt wrote an email, her cousin set up MC for us. That is about it!!! There is not much constant pressure... I guess I will have to do better job interfering....But I think I will go to see a lawyer first then hire a PI. I must try keep most of the family together.

My schedule will starts to free up soon. So I will be able to deal with A better.

To ccbis,

My wife admitted to me on D-day. Most of the stuff I know are from her. Since, in the beginning I was her enabler!!! I did not interfere, promised to buy a place for her, promise to let her have the kids, etc...So she told me a lot.

I think she did not deny it to her Aunt and her cousin when they contacted her. MIL told me she kept silence when MIL asked her. I also talked to OM twice. He also did not deny it.

I am going to see a lawyer soon. Probably, next week. See what I need to do if I want to keep the baby. The law here would be difference from what I have read here. Since, my wife takes care of the baby full time, it would be hard...

About Plan A, I think I can do it for a long time! (But I will not.) Think about it, I had about 6 SF for the whole 10 years and I still love her. Sure, there are times when I thought about divorcing her myself but eventually found my way back and OK with it. It was actually MIL that tell me to take care of her daughter at that time that bring me back to my senses (7-8 years ago). I thought some marriages are like this so I did not try to fix it. In the last 3 years, I think I did only 2-3 angry outburst, come home early every day, took the family out every weekend. But I did not talk to her much and probably did a lot of DJ. I thought being around was enough....Anyway, I going to try to stick with the plan (6 months)

About the baby, you are exactly right... I am starting to think about the same thing....After you said that OM is immoral. MIL is also using the same word...I am using him to my advantage which I should not. The thought of OM picking him up is depressing. But what can I do? I don't think I should have a baby sitter so she can go see OM, right??? I will have to think about this!!!! My baby is starting to speak and understand things now. I can tell her not to take the baby, but who will baby sit him???

One thing, I am thinking about is trying to get her a friend (woman) that she can talk to. So she does not have to call or texting OM all the time. I have not seen she have had any since 18 years ago....She must be really lonely. This could be hard to find.....It should be me really....

Hola, ultimately the decision is yours.

You have to know whether your wife is having an affair and what that means. Because that is how you will determine what your boundaries are. YOU have to decide what you will tolerate.

Before you do that, in your case it is necessary that you read what a good marriage ought to look like and if you understand what it is and decide that is what you want you will need to be able to explain it to your wife or to another woman in the future.

And you also have to work on yourself so that you can be a good husband, either to your wife or to another woman in the future.

and finally, YOU decide how long you will do plan A, if you are going to do plan B or if you are going to divorce your wife.

Hi,

To ccbis,

I think I know what a marriage should be like now and I will not accept anything less after her A.

An Update, I think now I am at a critical stage!

Today, I talked to my wife. The reason she did not talk to me for the last 4 days was her dad. He told her (through MIL, I think) that he will die with regrets and will not consider my wife as his daughter anymore and don't want her to come to his funeral. But, she still wants to divorce me. It has been decided and cannot be changed. She will not give up OM. My wife and her dad are very similar in their stubbornness and determination. Do you think I should talk to him? But, I did asked MIL to tell him that I will keep trying to save my marriage....

So we start talking about divorcing....At first, she said she will just go if I don't give her the divorce leaving the children with me. I then suggest a legal separation with a condition that she can see any one she likes and have an option to divorce in 6-12 months. She asked where will she stays. I said it will be like divorce so it is up to her. Now, she starts to want the kids now and might fight me for them in court. This might be because she know that my mom want the kids to live comfortably. And, I used to say that my mom will buy a place for her (in my name) if she keeps the kids.

We stopped the conversation there and we will need continue soon....Any suggestion about what I should do...

BTW, I stood my ground through out the conversation. I said it is her who destroying our family, OM is immoral, I only told the truth,..etc....

So, now I think plan B is approaching. My mom want to keep her here for at least 3-4 months which is the same as my original plan. So I am thinking about starting to negotiate the terms in LS. These could take a while. And, also setting the date for separation could make things more relax around here.

I also might move to a new place. Since I am living with my parents with lots of people in the house, if she leave everyone will know. This will make it very difficult to return for her. But, if we move together first, if she leave me, I will stay and do plan B at the new place. I also think this could be good for me too. Running a family by myself. And, returning home will be more pleasant for my wife. I could throw this in to keep her with me a little longer.

A quick question,

My wife wants a divorce. If legal separation is like divorce, except we will still be married. Why would she want it? What is the advantage for her????

Will need to read plan B now....

Can she get the divorce? If you are in plan A you should have just said that you are not yet planning on it and changed the subject. But I think that it is a subject you�ve already talked quite a bit about.

I really don�t know what advice I can give you....

Why don�t you make a summary of the situation and start another thread asking for help at this particular moment? Maybe you will get more ideas.

Hope you will tell your wife that you don't want a divorce and will do everything possible to protect your family. You are in an excellent position and very blessed that the family is supporting your marriage. That usually doesn't happen.

I would expose the OM at his work. Talk to his work and tell them that the OM is trying to break up your family and ask them what they can do about it. Often the OM will give up and pursue someone else if the husband makes it uncomfortable enough.

You also need to expose the affair to his family. Let him know that you won't give up protecting your family. And don't worry about your wife getting angry - they all get angry, but get over it in time.

To ccbis,


You mean if she has a ground for divorce, right? I am not sure. I will have to talk to a lawyer soon.

I am in plan A. But, there are no opportunity to do much after the exposure. She won't talk to me now. If I am home, she usually locked herself up in her room and surf the net all the time. I send email (no love you stuffs), buy flower, food, take the family out. But a few relatives I talked to want me to hold out a bit more. And, that is what I will do.

About a new thread, I will think about it.

To believer


I think I said that or something in that order. But I will keep saying it.

About exposure at OM's work, I told his boss. But she did not do much except saying that she will "talk" to him. Actually, she did not even talk to him herself but ask another employee to do. I called and talked to this employee once but now he does not return my call. The boss said it is personal matter but I think there is a rule for regular employer against any affair. He is not permanent employer but I think the same rule should apply. However, I doubt that OM will stay there for long since he just got his MS degree. But to do this, I need concrete evidence not just my wife confession. I will try to get the evidence first.

About OM's family, I told her mom (drove to her house, phone line disconnected). Told two of his brothers. One of them sound exactly like OM on the phone, so I am not sure if I actually talked to OM thinking it is his brother. Do you know that I found all of this on the internet using only OM's name!

I have two more strong targets though: OM's dad and OM's GF. I think I will have to hire someone soon to get all these data.

Just be like a broken record - keep telling her that you don't do divorce and will do whatever it takes to save your marriage and protect your family.

Absolutely hire a PI. Get all the evidence you can.

Larry

To believer,

OK, I will do just that.

To Larry,

Definitely, I will. I will talk to a lawyer first. I was actually looking for a PI before my exposure but was afraid of getting a crooked one. May be the lawyer can refer me to one.

Hi all, this is my attempt to get more response here. But, I don't want to start a new thread.

So, a short summary of my situation and an update...

Me and WW 39, together 18 years married 10 years, two sons 8 and 1. My wife fell out of love a year before we were married. WW won't let me have intimacy or SF after she fell out of love. I tried but many time withdrew away and she thought I am neglecting her. She hates that we live with my parents.

She told me she was not in love with me 3 years ago and in love with someone else. I asked her to work on our marriage. I think I did not meet her EN's back then but I thought we were back on track when we had some SF leading to the second son.

D-day was the last December (2009). As she told me, she gave up on our M a few years before meeting OM. She showed him her interest for 2 years and now they are in love for 1 years. I asked for a chance to try to fix our M. She refused to give up OM but slowly giving me more time.

I tired to meet her EN for about a month and started exposing around the end of Jan (2010). Now she on longer give me time to meet her EN of conversation. She won't go out with me. Now, she mostly locked herself in her room playing Facebook. The exposure had little effects up to this point, she still meets OM and talks to OM on the phone regularly. Any R talk or my interference with their contact results in her pushing for a divorce. She said that now that everyone know, she will not consider working on our M or dropping OM.

My plan was to hold out for a few more months. But, I am getting very tired of her A. At least, I am trying to see if I can keep the sons but so far she also wants them. She said she will go if she has a place to stay. OM may be trying to provide one or she could find one herself.

Currently I have no idea what to do with the A. I am trying to keep my Plan A but really have had no meaningful contact with my wife. I think I am suppose to push for LS but so far my wife only wants divorce. She only concern now is a place to stay. She and OM might be finding one. She also asked me to find one for the sake of our sons.

Only comfort I have now is reading posts here....any advise is welcome...

Let your WW leave, then plan B her. Then stay with your kids, your psrents can help you with them.

However since she has cut you off from SF. "My wife fell out of love a year before we were married. WW won't let me have intimacy or SF after she fell out of love" I would doubt the kids are yours.

I bet she has been in a long term affair. Putting out for you every time the OM knocked her up just so you would think the kids were yours.

Time for a DNA test.

Hi,

To TheRoad,

Thanks for your constant advises for me. I think the first son should be mine. He was born 8 years ago and when we were abroad while I was studying. I don't think she have another OM back then. And from my snooping, the second is also mine since they starts dating while my wife was pregnant (7-8 months).


That is what I want. But currently, she wants to D first and to take the younger son (at least for 1-2 years) and want the older one to choose. I think she also expect me to find her a place close to school. I could resist helping but if we get a divorce, she would have enough money and get child supports. Also I don't want our kids be in any uncomfortable situation and I don't think I can stop other relatives form helping out.

She might try to run with the younger son. This is what worried me. She said something about OM is preparing... But she probably give him back when he starts going to school. That is what she said on D-day. She just want to rise the baby for a while and go.

I am trying to do PlanA. But eventually, I need PlanB but not sure how to go there. I am thinking about really interfering with her A big time. Try to get her to want to leave so much she agrees to my terms. The problem is I don't want her to run away and I am not sure I can do it. Right now I am just trying to avoid confronting her contact, it is just too tiring now. Every time, I tried, she won't talk to me for days... From I read here, setting boundary is not LB, but it sure looks like one for my wife!

Who pays for her internet access? If you do, block facebook so she cannot use it at home. Put a key logger on your PC and see what other methods she uses to communicate with OM and block them, too. Or cancel all internet service to your home.

Does she call and text the OM? If so, have texting removed from that phone's service plan and block OM's number so he cannot call her.

You mentioned a few things you are doing to fill her need for affection. Things like buying her lunch, or flowers, or sending her a card. To me those are not affection at all. To me, affection is holding the door open for me and then touching me lightly on the back as I pass through. Putting your hand on my arm or knee when you lean in to talk to me. Play with my hair. Look at me in the eye for just a little too long when we talk. Rub my feet. To me, affection is very physical but it is NOT sexual. Now your wife may see flowers and cards as signs of affection and if she does then you are doing great. If your wife is like me, though, you are working very hard and missing the mark.

Hi turtlehead, thanks for coming here!

About the internet and phone, I pay for everything except WW manages all my finances. I know I should try to get control of my finances but WW is resisting. Last time I talk about it, she was upset with me for a long time. I can just seize it but some are in her name so I can't touch those. What can I do???

Turtlehead, I think you are right about her EN for affection. But, after the exposure, she constantly upset with me. She mostly won't talk to me, won't let me near her, etc. I think I meet some EN before the exposure. But, now, I am starting to think that exposure may not be good in my case (the exposure was 1 month ago).

I am in PlanA so I am trying not to do anything with the finances or interfering with her contacting OM. I am waiting to see if she will let me meet her EN. Is this a good idea? I don't know....Is is a general consensus here that BS should always interfere with A? Should I do this now or wait until I want her to think about moving out or separation?

I still did not talk to a lawyer. I think I will think more clearly once I do.

Hola - You need to interfere with the affair. Trying to meet her EN's while she is in contact with the OM is useless. Protect your finances!

Hi, just a quick update here...

It has been about a month since my last post. So far, the situation here is getting worse. Contact between my wife and OM seems to be intensified. I have seen them together twice now. My love for my wife is running really low.

I really think I should just D her and move on soon. Only problem now is the kids.... On Plan B, I guess... but I really am doubtful if she would come back or if I would take her back if she ever going to come back now.

Just venting really...

Update and help request,

My wife and I now divorced for about a month. I did plan B for about 2 now. She is still living with me. Last week she went on a trip with OM and my two kids. After the trip she has second thought and now want to save our family. She asked OM to leave. What troubled me is that they did not actually have a fight or a break up first.

A few days ago she learned that she is pregnant with OM (for about a month, she said). So she told OM and me. She just asking me yesterday if I still "want" her back if she is pregnant.

So, I said that she will need to committed to rebuilding our love. This could be hard since she did not love me for a long time (even before we were married). I asked for no-contact. She said is could be hard since they now have a child together. She refuse to have an abortion.

My question is about no-contact with OM in this case. Can anyone give me advise or pointer on this. What is acceptable and will allow withdrawal....

wait let me get this straight....

You are divorced
and yet your Xwife still lives with you
she cheated on you
and Pregnant with the OM baby???

KICK HER OUT!!!!!!

Yes, I am in a sad situation. It has always been.

She is in the process of moving out to a place I bought (in my name). I need to make sure my kids have comfortable place to stay. They will go back and forth.

I would like to keep our family together as she also wants. But then OC will not be in a complete family instead!

Anyway, I am waiting for her final decision. And, see her action from there. I can always walk away since we are divorced already. I plan not to find anyone until next year anyway.....I just can't seem to let go.

Hola,

Can you ever trust this woman again?

Suggest that she give up the baby for an open adoption where both W and OM have visitation. This would keep OM out of your childrens lives.

She takes a vacation with OM while you are paying her bills? My GOD, I agree with the other posters KICK HER OUT.

God Bless
Gamma

hola, I posted to you in your thread in recovery but now I see you are actually divorced. My question then is does OM want contact with this future OC? Are you willing to raise this child as your own? Would OM be willing to let you adopt the OC? I would run in the opposite direction if their "plan" is for OM to have contact. Having the OP in your life forever will make your M recovery even more difficult.

I understand that you want to provide and protect for your children. At the same time you are providing and protecting your wife. You are fulfilling her EN for Financial Support and Family Commitment (they may not be in her top 5, but they are still an EN). Sorry but that is not your job anymore, that is the OMs. You have no responsibility to provide her with a house, or the OC, that is up to her and the OM. However, you must provide for your kids.

I have no idea how you can provide and support your kids without your XWW taking some of that support. If there is a way to provide a comfortable life for your kids without your XWW having a part would be the best goal. What you are doing now is the same thing as if she were married to you and cheating. Why do you want to put yourself through this agony again and again, longer and longer!

Can I be the bad guy on this thread?

STOP PAYING FOR HER!!!

YOU ARE DIVORCES!!

GET YOUR BALLS BACK FROM HER, AND FIND SOMEONE WHO WILL TREAT YOU RIGHT!!

Yes make sure that your children is taking care of, but ONLY YOUR CHILDREN!!

NOT YOUR X CHEATING WIFE! WHO IS PREGNANT WITH ANOTHER MANS CHILD!!



Sorry to be harsh, but when I see someone who is divorced who is providing for his wife still...just makes me ill.

Good luck you can ignore my posts if I am being too mean

To Shapphire,
No it is OK. I like it. I am only paying child support. We are staying in my parents home and my parents want to keep her here so they can play with the kids. (We split custody of the two kids actually) but she is moving out in a week or two. Unless she decide to work on us again and have NC with OM. She is deciding on this.

I need to make sure my kids are in comfortable home. I can't just provide only for the kids. Anyway, If I am not giving her the place to stay someone else in our family will. So, it might as well be me.

To faithful,
I can see my self raising OC. OC is not the problem if XW agree to NC with OM. However, OM want to see OC. He asked to for OC. This is the problem. I will not take my X back if NC is not established. I am ready to walk away.

To Wheels,
I know exactly what you are saying. At the beginning I asked her to find her own place. But in the end, I just need to find a good one for my kids. If I am not hoping about getting her back, would not this be OK? My kids are more valuable, I think. And, I am ready to move on.

Do I wait for her to decide about NC or do I try to convince XW and OM to let me raise OC and OM to stay away. I think I will break Plan B and go talk to her.

I think writing make me feel better!

To Gamma,

Trust is the key issue, along with NC. I don't know. I will just have to see what she does.

The baby is hers by law. So I can't tell her what to do. What ever she wants, I will let her back only with good NC.

I have a question. How do you consider yourself to be in Plan B with a woman that you still live with? How is that even possible? Plan B means that you have absolutely no direct contact with the other person. Unless that's a pretty big house, I don't think you've been doing an actual Plan B.

This is such a mess!!

I'm OUT!

Good luck!

Gunna let the vet's help ya,

To writer1,
Plan B or not, I have about one contact a day when I wake up. But I give her a ride with me on Friday in the morning and evenging (I know I know)... I mostly stay away from her. I only play with my kids in the morning and in the evening. My mom shuffle them around for me. It was the first trip XW took with OM that make she realized she miss our family together. This is about 2 months after I started to withdraw from her (1 after divorce).

I might be jumping the gun here. She is still thinking anyway.....Waiting time.

They said I should wait one or two years for WW to come around before moving on. With OC, I am really eager to move on now. I am quite a catch, I think (owner's bias aside). I am just not sure if I can feel the same way I did with my WW with someone else again.