Hi all, <p>haven't posted a long time. Anyway, not many news here, just wanted to share and ask you for opinion. <p>Short recap: H (38)has A with co-worker (32), he is her first boss, offices door-to door. To my knowledge EA started Nov/Dec 99, turned to PA Apr 00. D-day May 00, I confronted both H and OW. H stayed home, but told me he loves OW, begged me for patience and asked me to find him C (realised he had a number of issues, and told me OW is just a consequence, not a cause). <p>Started both IC and joint C, H waffled for 2 monhts, and then attempted suicide July 00, ended in mental hospital for 30 days, then moved out in BIL's apartment after released. Intensive EA/PA took place - OW lives only 1/4 mile away from BIL's. <p>Due to A, OW was transferred to another job in the same company Nov 00, but never actually worked there - left on long sick leave. It turned out she was diagnosed Stage 3c ovarian cancer, had radical surgery Dec 00, 6 chemos and second check surgery. Now she's in remission, and to my surprise CEO transferred her back to old job, even promoted her and assigns her to be H's closest assistant and team member [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]
Someone's really crazy there, they ALL know what happened, even talked with me about that!!<p>H moved back Feb/01, said it's over, he wants me and D, and our home. <p>Now, I've been through pure hell in last 2+ years, and seems I'm going to be put again for another round - I just don't know do I have will and strenght to take it, and why should I, after all?? <p>Our communication is better now. He had a number of angry outbursts when he first came back home, blamed me for suicide attempt, and everything he ever considered wrong in his life, but now it's slowly getting better, at least he is willing to talk and listen. I even get I love you's, but only if I ask. I guess it's a progress too, since we started from open rejection, and came to this point via "I don't know", "I care for you" and "Happy Valentine". I don't get much of affection, certainly much less than I need, not to mention reassurances I don't get at all. However, I get more than before. <p>More or less, the atmosphere at home is civil and sometimes even pleasant. He comes home from work usually on time, sometimes later, but not more than 30 min, spends weekends at home, do some housework, repairments, do things for me (makes coffee, serves dinner, helps me with my job ...) D is happy having her F around. <p>Problem is, I don't believe him, I can't make myself to with a good reason - I caught him lie unbelievably (and VERY clumsy), he keeps contact with her AND HER FAMILY after working hours, he defends his right of privacy, probably spends time with her when I'm on business trips (quite often), alhough I can't confirm ... <p>And most of all: they work together on daily basis, she spends big part of the time in his office, they go on every single business trip, dinner and company or work related social event together (I'm never invited - not the case with my business dinners and events!) [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img]
The business is rapidly growing now, and this means trips out of the country almost every 4 weeks. Two months ago they even went on 4-week training in the beautiful castles of France - true, he was sending me text messages and kisses daily, but I also found e-mails to OW (she was on the other training site for one week), and to her S. <p>H says PA ended some time before her surgery, and there is nothing between them now, EA or PA, that he is home and wants to be home, has no intention to leave, and that I should stop thinking of her and just leave her behind where she is to live the time she has on earht. <p>But he also refuses to cease contact with OW other than strictly business related, refuses to stop spending lunch time and coffee breaks with her, refuses to stop going from work with her (they go same direction although they don't have to)... he doesn't protect me from hurt, basically he only does his best to keep those two worlds separate. I'm not even allowed to wait for him in front of his company building after working hours, God forbid I climb the stairs to his office! I could go on numbering ... <p>I don't think I can take it any more. I can't believe him even if he says the ordinar truth - I have to check myself. That upsets him, but when I told him flat out what I need to regain trust, he refuses to give it. Our sex life is seriously affected too - I can't get rid of pictures in my head, not to mention this what we share now is far from what we used to have. <p>I stopped snooping, asking him where he goes, anything, I'm basically living my own life and very seldom think of him during the day. He never calls too, but he used to, at least once a day prior to A started. I think I don't care any more where this leads. Only here and there I find myself thinking of good moments. <p>It seems to me H is waiting something to happen which will solve this situation one way or the other. Either she dies, or I leave, or maybe she leaves, which I doubt - she's single, never married, always involved only with MM, and now very ill. I' sorry to say that but it's a fact - even if she survives, she is now sterile and under constant life threat. Why should she bother now finding somebody else, when she already has someone who cares for her? <p>What would you do if you were in my shoes? <p>Love,
Adrian

Adrian,<p>I honestly don't know what I would do if I were in
your shoes..<p>One part of me would have compassion and want to reach out to this woman who is suffering w/ this
illness (my mom died of cancer) <p>And that would require a great amount of swollowing my pride..and putting aside my own hurts..<p>It may be that your h thinks if you see OW you may
say something hurtful to her out of your own hurt..and cause her more stress..and doesn't want to take that chance..<p>I realize this may be very difficult to find compassion for this woman who along with your husband hurt you so deeply..it sounds like your h has a lot of compassion for her and what she is going through..(probably one of the reasons YOU fell in love with him) <p>I know when my mom fought w/ cancer she pushed others away from her..I think the only man she didn't push away was my father..and they had been divorced for about 15 years..he was remarried
with two more children..she even pushed away the man she dated for 10 years..I know my step mom was frustrated by this after all they were divorced..
(I know this isn't the case in your relationship)
but my step mom, decided to set her own pride aside and began reaching out to my mother..(they literally despised each other for years- she was one of the many OW in their marriage) when she reached out to my mother, my mom was able to forgive both of them..she died within a couple years but, they had become friends..and when my step mothers father was diagonosed w/ cancer my mom was able to comfort my step mother..and help her understand some of the things her father would be going through..and it made it easier for her to be strong for her own mother..during that time..
it was very hard for all involved..even us as grown children..but it brought some peace to our family..<p>Like I said, I know this is difficult, but if you can find some compassion for this woman..it may change some things in your relationship with your husband..my step mom and dad have a stronger marriage now..it's actually better than my parents marriage ever was..because my dad changed also, he no longer drinks, is no longer the abusive jerk he'd always been..he also seen a side of his wife that he wouldn't have other wise seen..(we all did) <p>You don't have to be her best friend..but maybe show some compassion..even past your own hurt..

Wow Adrian. I was hoping things were going better with you.<p>I need to think about this. Of course you know I never made it this far into "recovery" - if he's really there, which, thinking about it some more as I type, perhaps he's not there at all.<p>I'm not sure what I'd do. Clearly, you cannot overcome her "sympathy" clout with him or the company.<p>Are you in counseling?<p>Dave

ThornedRose, <p>in normal circumstances, trying to help would be my first reaction. In fact, it was, I mean, when I first learned about it I felt urged to call her and ask how she's doing. I didn't after all, because this woman hurt me to the very bone of my being, and she's still doing it, VERY intentionally. I'm not talking about her A with my H, but about her acts against me and our D. <p>Few examples: when H was in hospital, she introduced herself as his W and demanded from guards not to let anybody to visit him - H's familiy blamed me, of course. <p>She turned the world upside down to become my friend - unashamedly used me when I was vulnerable, used my good will, tolerance ... anything what takes to enter my house and my life - and than attacked me when I felt safe, the she revealed her true intentions. She openly told me "I don't give a s*** how you feel, how you D feels ... I will be here two months or two years, as long as it takes for him to decide. <p>She violated my home, came to my FIL's funeral and had a nerve to give me and D a hand and condolences, talked to MIL and kissed her AFTER funeral, and the next day she cried to my H that I expelled her from funeral, because neither me or D wanted her kiss! Mind this was almost a year after H came back home! H freaked out, said unbelievable things to ME and D, slamed the door, took my driving license and cell phone, screamed and cursed, orderded D to apologize to that slut ... D never forgot him, and she won't ever, I think.

I'm never unpleasant, I never lose my temper, never raise my voice regardless of how difficult situation might be. So, that's not an issue, my H knows that very well. <p>I only reacted once, when I found her cell # at home's caller ID - sent her text message (they were on their way to France then) and said "If you ever call my home again, I'll smash you ugly face!" She replied "Go to hell, where you belong!" My H never even attempted to protect me and our M from those violations. I resent it a great deal. <p>If you bother to read some of my old posts, you will see how bad it was. When H came home, I even offered him to go visit her together with him, I offered help but he refused. Explanation? I don't want to take you there with me, just because. <p>Than I decided to drop it and never offer help again. Frankly, after all this, I can't even make myself to offer help. I just want to erase her from my life, from my mind ... <p>I truly belive it should be my H who has to set the boundaries and protect his family - if M is what he decided he wanted. I offered him number of times just to pack his things and go if that's what he wants. He always says no, I want to be here, I want this - dont you see? <p>Unfortunately - no. His acts are not where his words are. <p>WAT,
thanks for reading and replying. I think often of you and Rick37 (haven't seen him posting for ages). I miss some of us analytical minds. So sorry thigs didn't work for you. If you wish to e-mail me some time, please do. (adrian_faith@yahoo.co.uk)<p>
Love,
Adrian

It sounds like you two were separated from 7/2000 - 2/2001. Is that right? If not what was the longest amount of time you have ever been separated and how did you act during separation?<p>My questions are to find out what your life (and D life) was like without him (if you ever had that). I ask this because from your post it sounds like you are ready emotionally for divorce. I do not think you should file for divorce until you see what 4 months or so feels like acting as if divorced. In other words, no contact with H except for D and visitation. There is no doubt your H wants the marriage on his terms. He is selfish and not thinking of you. A separation (acting as if divorced) gives you both the opportunity to see what it would be like. It will either motivate him to make a change and break all contact with OW OR it will give you peace that life without him will be just grand. BUT I do not think you can make that assumption without real facts of what it will be like through a trial of actually living it. <p>Your story is HUGELY different from ThornedRose in that they were divorced for 15 years. It was a beautiful story of real life people experiencing forgiveness and perserverance. BUT it is NOT anything like your story. I am so sorry OW has cancer BUT she is NOT your problem or your H problem. Your H needs to make a choice you or her. There are no demands here - just a choice. He needs to pick one and stick to it (IMHO).

Hi again, Adrian - I LuvNprotect ME has some valid thoughts, IMHO. But, hard to implement.<p>You didn't answer my question about counseling.<p>Do you know what a reasonable expectation there is for this woman to live a lot longer? Let's say she's currently terminal. She dies. Your H is instantly relieved of anything keeping him committed to her and very likely may "return" to you. Could you accept him in this scenario?<p>If the answer is "no," then I submit to you that you have your answer you need in deciding whether to seek an end to your marriage.<p>If the answer is "yes," then I suggest you need to get yourself into Plan B somehow if you feel like you're really at the end of your rope. This requires a separation. This is the only way, IMHO, to force your H to choose between you and your D and the leech sucking on his brain and your family.<p>Dave

Adrian,<p>I guess the only question is if YOU want to be in this marriage. If you do, then stay. If you don't then move on. It doesn't seem as if this situation is going to improve. I doubt even her death will make a difference.<p>Your H appears to do the minimum. He HAS to work with her, but he doesn't HAVE to protect her.<p>My advice is this. You gave it a good shot, the marriage is recovered to some degree, IS THIS ENOUGH? If not, then perhaps it is time to move on.<p>I am strongly for building/rebuilding marriages, but I don't think it means a life sentence with a spouse that doesn't respect you or really love you. Interestingly, I am talking about YOU, not your H. <p>As is the case for everyone that comes here, the decision to attempt to rebuild rests with the person that wants to leave least. That would be you.<p>Think about it.<p>God Bless,<p>JL

I don't buy the showing OW forgiveness routine. She knows exactly what she is doing.
Anyway, her illness is besides the point. As is she.<p>Focus on the relationship between you and your H. Are you willing to accept his shabby treatment of you? It seems to me that he has placed you as second best.<p>You should be welcome in his office. He should be caring and considerate of you- but isn't. He should break off contact with the OW, or at the very least make it clear their R is professional only. <p>My fear is that by accepting this treatment, you give him the message that it's OK. Like he will "settle" for you in the event that his "true love" dies. The fact is, based on what you've described, the affair is not over. It seems to me that he is cakeeating. <p>If she dies, who's to say he won't take up with a new, healthier OW? He's learned that he doesn't need to make an effort to meet your needs, that he doesn't need to show respect for you, that he can move back in without a recovery plan. <p>You know you can stand on your own two feet. You know you can survive, you've already survived a seven month separation. Do you deserve this shabby treatment?<p>Do your in laws know of the truth of the situation?<p>I don't know what the ultimate solution is. You don't say if your separation was a Plan B, or whether you continued to meet his needs during that time. <p>Hoping your H's head comes out of the clouds....

Adrian,<p>okay..that being the case..start looking at his actions..do they match his words?? NOOOOOO<p>YOU do have a choice here..2 years..BAH on that with all the other BS-- there comes a time when YOU NEED to protect yourself and your children tell him YOU Have had enough..start taking control of your own life..<p>He can choose to stay married to you, and give a list of terms..No Contact w/ OW and counseling..or
he can find someplace else to live..and pack his
bags for him..You've stayed to long not doing anything other than talking..it's time to take action..by giving him two choices..and let HIM CHOOSE ONE OF THEM..(If he can't transfer to another area in the company then ask him to find
another job..or have her transfered, if those options aren't open..and they aren't always..say
no contact w/ OW after work hours doesn't matter what it's about) and if he can't give this to you
then it's time to say enough is enough..NO MORE!!<p>And start realizing your worth more than this..