When the time came that my W and I could open up and talk - and not hold feelings back, and not worry if the other would blow up - This is when I knew we would be OK. We just both learned not to LB when we talked, it made so much difference. Even if we don't agree, we can work on it without the other getting hurt. It looks like your improvement continues. <p>My wife has said many times that I don't need to show her affection so often, and in the ways I do.( I use a lot of MRs Dreamlands stuff) But I know she likes it, I keep doing it, and she keeps responding anyway. All the while saying " you don't need to do that." It would be nice if she would say," thank you, you are so sweet to do that." But she really doesn't. However, since I can step back now, and see that it is working, I will keep doing it. Do whatever you can get away with on the sly. It will work anyway. <p>When I know she is hurting or upset about something, I offer her a hug, with no strings attatached. I tell her she is smart, and hardworking ( insert nice things about your wife here) and she will be OK. I say, " just hold on to me and I will take care of you." She likes that, even though we are a team, and are pretty equal, she likes to hear it. <p>She and I like different styles of music. I put hers on whenever she is around, she knows I do it on purpose. She knows it is because I care for her, love her. She is responding to all these things. Examine the time you spend together - you can find ways to get to her and meet her needs. Turn off your favorite TV show and pay attention to her, or turn the channle to her show. She may be hopeing you will do stuff, even though she fights it. Be careful but do it anyway. <p>You are really looking good, and you give good advice too. Keep it up. <p>SS<p>[ June 26, 2002: Message edited by: still seeking ]</p>

Onwardandup,<p>I am glad to here you are making progress with her sharing her feelings with you. My WW shares everything with me, and it really hurts. I know she does not mean to hurt me, but her words are piercing.<p>Is the A still going on? Is she willing to discuss this with you? I hope what you said in my post is correct. I hope she is in a fog and what she says has to be taken with a grain of salt.<p>Keep up the good work. I am happy to see that you are doing well now. I have not been feeling good for the last two or three weeks. Felt much better in the past. I was only able to eat a couple of pieces of pizza all day yesterday. I have no desire to eat and the funny thing is, I am not even hungry. Fortunately for me, I am starving today (even after lunch). Time to get a coke.<p>I will talk to you later. I am dying to tell someone about the recent events, but it is just to soon to say.

Dreamland - <p>Yes, you have to take things with a grain of salt. A few weeks ago my WW told my sister that if I didn't leave school our marriage is over. Now she is saying that the financial support is lower on the EN list than affection and admiration. I still don't know if this is the correct order but I hope it is. It also shows that maybe she is becoming more willing to let me try to meet the more important needs. She also has given me the "I'll never be close to you again" line but hey what can I do but keep with the plan. Even last night she said she not interested in what I am doing in my life, but at the same time she now is encouraging me to complete the class that is left over from the last semester.<p>As for her A, we still have not talked about it. She did make it a point to suggest it was not going on when he came to our daughters birthday party last Nov. (of course she may not recognize an EA as an A, but I believe it realy didn't cross the line untill early this year). I know that since I am around all the time this summer that is little or no opportunity for much PA (unless they do it at work when everyone else is around). She still talks to him at work most days (that is when they are both there). She calls him occasionally but not anywhere near what it was before. He seems to call her more than she calls him and he leaves frequent voice mail messages. It is interesting that she doesn't check her phone for messages too often, so they may sit for a couple of days.<p>In all I would say that EA is still going on but it is not that strong and may be dying. I also realize that one big or small LB by me could put the A back on the front burner. So on with my Plan A and the good advice of STILL SEEKING.<p>
BTW...Everyone wants to know what is going on with you and Mrs. Dreamland, but we can wait. Let the situation play out and you can choose to share later if it makes sense. You are both in my thoughts...I'm hoping for the best.

Onwardandup,<p>The biggest problem about the A is not the PA, but the EA. More than likely, if she ever had a PA with the OM, she is committed mind, body, and soul until it is all over and there is no contact. My WW can not have PA with two people. She cries afterward and will not even really kiss me. So, SF is on hold for a long long time, I think.<p>Do not underestimated the power of the feelings. I guess that is all I have learned through all of this. <p>I need to shake my current funk, but I think this all has to do with what is currently going on. I am only hoping that what I am seeing and what is happening is real, and is going to stick. I am a nervous wreck, that is why I think I was not eating. I am on the edge of my chair hoping and waiting patiently like a spectator at a football game in a close 4th quarter. Only time will tell.

Dreamland - <p>You are right about the EA being the bigger problem than any PA. At least in my case I have not figured out my WW's stance on having PA in more than one place at a time. I can cretainly relate to the kissing thing. I think for my WW a kiss is a bigger part of attachment. She does kiss me from time to time, but there is no spark and it is certainly not a passionate kiss...kind of like friends or family (BTW - this realy sucks because there is nothting better than a passionate kiss).<p>It is all very confusing to me, so in some respects I have stopped trying to analyZe everything too much. One thing I did not mention is that the marriage counselor suggested that next week he wanted to get into some of the bigger issues we have left alone. I'm not sure I am ready for him to fail at this like I have.

Hello, O.

Who's it going to be - Brazil or Germany?

I know how you feel about not being prepared to address the A issue in your next counseling session. I wasn't prepared to deal with it when my H and I started counselling, and my H wasn't telling the truth about it anyway. Not surprisingly, counseling didn't work for us. The A needs to be addressed and it needs to end, otherwise, counseling isn't going to help.

I agree that affection and admiration are important, but they're best when given genuinely, and when they're deserved. Take care - H.

HJL -

I thought you left my ramblings (too boring to read, or just too much as you prepare to move on).

Anyways, I was glad to see Germany get rid of S. Korea in the World Cup. As for the finals I have to root for Brazil all the way.

Its not that I don't want to address the A, I just don't want it to be brought up and have WW try to sweep it under the rug. So while I know it has to be addressed, I'm not sure if the time is right yet. I think the counseling may provide an avenue where things can be worked out but if the A is swept under the rug it certainly is a waste of time. So I do think the counseling is valuable right now becasue it has kept a dialog open and we'll have to see what happens.

AS for affection and admiration you are right about when they are good. On the other hand it serves me no purpose to withdraw from giving these things to my WW. It is how I feel towards her, so it is OK with me.

BTW - she got a dress for the wedding at the end of July. At least she is planning on going.

Hey there O',

I hope you are O.K. I am not so good. So much so fast. Crying on myself.

You are right about the affection and needs part. I would say the division factor right now for you is way up there. It is good to do the things you would like to do from the heart, but it hurts sooo much. It is much more painful and much more difficult then simply divorcing your feelings and yourself from the situation. It seems like you are a much stronger person than I. I have a real hard time with all of this.

My WW's A is now professed to be over. It suddenly imploded/exploded and I am left with the remains, a sour putrid mess ignited by their own selfishness. (Details in other post) That is the root of all the evil that lurks in these A's. A complete self-absorbed mess with our spouses concerned only about themselves. I have such a bad taste in my mouth right now, mainly rotten eggs and old fish.

I still deeply love her, but it is so painful to see her hurting. She tried to leave last night, but I told her to wait till morning and think about it, (after we purchased a $1,200 Kirby vacuum cleaner this morning :eek) she left. She said she will be gone for the night. I asked her if she was going to see OM. She responded with an emphatic "NO"! "The OM and I are over," she said. She just left a few minutes ago and will be gone till tomorrow. I hope not much longer than that. I asked her but could not get a definite answer. She said she only brought clothes for one day. I am woried about her. I told her it was not good to be alone now. She promised to call me to tell me where she is staying and tell me how she is doing.

This is real tough now. She has no desire to try and fix us. I hope this all turns around.

Sorry for crying on your thread.

Dream, I wish I had great words of advice for you but nothing comes right now. Just this,

Don't give up, and don't do anything.

Before you do or say anything other than the standard plan A, come and check it with Onward.

OK? Please?

Granted we don't know what will happen really, but you will feel much better in a few weeks. She's still on the roller coaster and that won't change for a while. Do whatever it is you do to keep going, and keep going.
OK?
SS

OK, so I changed the title of the thread (it now reflects where I am at).

The weekend was pretty good. Some mutal meeting of EN's (you know what that means <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

I still can't read what is in WW's mind. Every week our marriage counsleor gives us "homework" and for the most part WW blows it off. Tommorow is the next session and she has not made any attempt yet, I don't expect it either. I guess I get a little frustrated with this and I will see what the counselor does with this. I think he will address it, if not I guess I will.

WW came home from work today in a less than nice mood. I try not to get hung-up on this but she was working with OM today. I left and went to swim at my fathers house to get some space insure there were no LBs. Later we watched her favorite show together but nothing more. I did make it a point to let her know I counsciously had made an effort to change one of my behaviors over the weekend that bothered her. She said she had noticed, but no other acknowledgement.

I guess tonight I am just frustrated that what she calls "working on the marriage" is not meeting my expectations. In reality I don't think she has really made the decision to work on things. If she had what I saw on the first post in this thread "she plans to keep OM as a friend" would still not be a major issue for me.

I almost forgot to add this. WW started reading "The Divorce Remedy" last night. I saw that she was just getting to the 'walkaway wife syndrone' tonight (I hope she enjoys the reading). She said she did enjoy SAA, but the concepts about ending the A and 'no-contact' obviously did not sink in too deep. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: onwardandup ]</small>

Onwardandup,

One thing I needed to hold on through all of this is truths. Lets see if these truths are correct:

1)Your wife is still engaged in an least an EA.
2)Marital recovery is impossible if the EA is continuing.
3)If the EA is continuing, she is stringing you along until the EA turns into M regardless of what she may tell you.
4)Do not look for signs of recovery in her or the way she treats you. These will not occur until she is done with OM.
5)It may be a good sign that she is reading these books. However, my WW read these books only to feel less guilty about her A. She wanted vindication. As soon as she discovered that she could not get it from the books, she stopped reading them. Understand that she may only be reading these books for that reason.

How is your conversation going with WW? Are you able to get more information from her without LB'ing? Have you asked her recently about the A? I would try to do this once every two weeks or so just to keep tabs on everything and to let her know you are concerned about this.

Do not let MC become a free venting source for you. Even in MC this will be LB'ing.

I am glad to see that she is making progress. I hope that she can decide on what she wants to do before you lose all of your love bank for her. Monitor this closely. Even if you still unconditionally love her, you may all of sudden one day look at your WW and think to yourself, "this is not worth it. Why am I trying."

Dreamland -

I'll try to answer your questions....

"1)Your wife is still engaged in an least an EA."

I believe this to be the case, but I have no way of knowing. She does not see him outside of work but contact continues at work and via cell phone. She has still resisted talking about it and at this point I don't even know how to bring it up.

"2)Marital recovery is impossible if the EA is continuing."

It certainly is for me, and from everything I have seen and read it takes two for recovery.

"3)If the EA is continuing, she is stringing you along until the EA turns into M regardless of what she may tell you."

I guess I don't know about this one. Only she knows what she has in mind. She may foolishly think she can keep him as a friend (unacceptable to me).

"4)Do not look for signs of recovery in her or the way she treats you. These will not occur until she is done with OM."

This makes sense to me. Before I can worry about or even consider recovery the A needs to be addressed. I don't think we are in any form of recovery right now. I think she is still just playing the situation out in her own way (whatever that may be). As a matter of fact I don't know how you can be in recovery untill two people are working on the marriage.

"5)It may be a good sign that she is reading these books. However, my WW read these books only to feel less guilty about her A. She wanted vindication. As soon as she discovered that she could not get it from the books, she stopped reading them. Understand that she may only be reading these books for that reason."

I don't think she is looking for vindication. I'm not really sure what she is looking for. I guess the positive thing I take from it is that at least we can talk some of the same language.

"How is your conversation going with WW? Are you able to get more information from her without LB'ing? Have you asked her recently about the A? I would try to do this once every two weeks or so just to keep tabs on everything and to let her know you are concerned about this."

Conversation is difficult. We don't ever talk about our R and I have not broached the subject of the A for two weeks. Our last conversation, after the bad counseling seesion, I tried to explain that the A was still bothering me and "inappropriate" (yes this was a LB). She cut the converrsation off and stated that she felt she was working on the marriage.

"Do not let MC become a free venting source for you. Even in MC this will be LB'ing."

I don't necessarily look at it a free venting opportunity. It is just the only time when I can initiate any kind of talk about our R (good or bad). I think tonight I should approach it as "what is your plan to getting us to recovery?". In reality since she says she is working on us, but there is limited action I just don't see it. I want to know why this gap exisits. I'm just at a real loss in how to get her either try for real, or tell me what is going on. In some respects I don't want to rock the boat just yet since there have been minor signs of inprovement.

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet. But it is frustrating that counseling is not having any effect (at least in my oppinion). I realize this takes time, but I hate wasting the money if nothing is going to come of it. Maybe tonight will be different, I do think the counselor is going to be more agressive towards her.

I am sorry if I sounded harsh. I read back through me post and I think I came across a little harsh. I am a little jaded right now. I feel hopeless even though the A is over, I do not think my WW wants to work on us. She has never tried and always said she was not going to. Her ring still sits in the jewelry case.

I think it is important for you to bring up the conversation about the OM and WW. For her to open up with you about anything she is feeling, you need to show her you can talk with her about this without showing any signs of distress, anger, judgement, etc.

You may want to try something like this: Start off telling her you love her regardless of what she has done or what she is doing now. Explain to her why you love her going into specific detail. Tell her that you think you have a good idea that the A is still going on and that you love her anyway. Tell her that everyone makes mistakes and that God and you look at her in the same way. Sin is Sin and no one is better or worse for what they have done. Tell her that God views that if a man has lusted after a woman in his heart he is no better than someone who has had an affair and you feel the same way (Do you?). Do not say anything negative or demanding or say anything that would suggest that you are judgeing her. Then pop the big question. Do you still have feelings for the OM? When she tells you yes, do not get sad or mad just keep your poker face. Tell her that it makes you feel good that she shares these things with you. Then start talking about other things. A few days later do the same thing and inquire about additional information. Baby steps are required here. Rehearse all of this first before you do anything and believe what you say in your heart before you say it.

About your responses to my very blunt and insensitive questions (sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )
1) Try not to guess here. Deal with absolutes. Own your situation so that you can deal with in in the heart. If she has not gone through withdrawal (believe me you would know) she is still having an EA. Do not kid yourself. Follow your mind not your heart. Use reason because one of you two need to.
2) I still think that recovery is impossible until the OM is gone. You will not be able to win her over. I thought that I could compete with the OM. This is impossible. She is comitted to him if she had SF with him (period). My wife wrote to you telling you to try to fill certain needs. While she was writing this she was telling me that if the WW is committed, he has no hope of winning her over. The A needs to die for any hope of filling her needs. She was very gentle with you in her posts and harsh with me. She was actually telling me (through you) that I had no hope regardless of what I did because she was comitted to the OM.
3)This is an absoulte truth if the A is going on and if she had a PA she is committed. She is biding her time in the most comfortable state until the OM commits to marriage to her (ring and a date as Dr. Laura would say). A woman cannot be commited to two people at once. So where does that leave you?
5)Yes the lingo is good and she can relate to how you are feeling more importantly. Try asking her why she is reading the books.

What is it the most you want out of the MC when you go there? What I read from some of your posts is that you do quite a bit of LB'ing there. I think that you feel safe talking openely about your feelings with the MC. It is still LB's. You even said you hoped that the MC would be tough on her. I could be reading too much into your posts. It just seems like it is a nice place to vent for you by the way you described it.

I think tonight I should approach it as "what is your plan to getting us to recovery?". In reality since she says she is working on us, but there is limited action I just don't see it. I want to know why this gap exisits. I'm just at a real loss in how to get her either try for real, or tell me what is going on. In some respects I don't want to rock the boat just yet since there have been minor signs of inprovement.

IMHO: There is no action because there is no motivation or desire to work on the marriage. The OM exists in her mind and heart and she probably is commited to him. Give up on the recovery and work on Plan A. Recovery is what comes after the A is over and Plan A was successful.

Do not give up on the marriage. I am not suggesting that you "throw in the towel." I know that the A will end eventually. Almost all A's end because they were created in a vacume. Wait for the A to implode. Concentrate on Plan A. You are getting hung up on looking and working toward her giving you your desired response. This will not come until the A is completely over. The catch 22 of this, is that you need to become friends with her before she will tell you about the A. (Yes, I said friends.) As long as she is hiding things from you and being the way she is, you are just aquaintences not friends. The whole relationship process needs to start all the way at square one all over again. You have to nurture a friendship before it will become anything else. Just be there as a friend, and own your situation and deal with the fact that your WW may not be yours anymore, but someone elses.

Tonight at your MC, try just being yourself and a good friend to your WW. This will speak volumes to her.

Dreamland -

As for your situation, try not to be too jaded. All things take time and how your situation will turn out is far from certain. At this poit just try to continue your plan A, but in a more subtle way. Only she has the power to decide what she will work on, but at least without the OM that option is fading.

BTW I did not find your post harsh, don't be too hard on yourself. As for me, I guess I'm just having a few down days. I'm still not sure my WW was or is commited to to OM. OK, so she probably is/was but it is too hard to think about it that way. I do keep thoughts that this is the case in my head, but they make me want to LB so I put them aside to work my plan A (yes, they do seem to come out at counseling). Maybe part of my problem is that I am not dealing with reality. She is saying she is working on us, but I don't see it.

I guess I need to think more about how this will play out and what I am going to do or say. I still don't want my marriage to end, but I am not going to live a lie or have an incomplete marriage. I think I need to reasses my plan A and what I want out of life in general.

Please try to face reality here. It is the only way you will be able to deal with what is going on. You will actually lesson the LB'ing because you will not expect things from her. It is very tough to face that your WW is having a physical and emotional affair with the OM (my WW is almost 100% sure your WW is having a PA or had a very passionate PA). This is very hard to face, but you can do it. Do not depend upon her for anything including your hapiness. Move on with your life, because she has. Focus more on yourself and your degree. Forget about working hard to meet her EN's. This is nearly impossible now.

If you live in a dream, you will be unable to deal with reality when it comes striking in on you when you talk about the A or OM or even meeting your EN's. When faced with a big stroke of reality, you will lash out to protect your dream. This is why people LB. They have not accepted the reality and live in the dream. That is why I have been able to talk with my WW and not LB. Like my signature line says dreamland (was mine now hers). I took hold of reality with both fists and let it beat me to a pulp and got depressed for a while, but I dealt with it and was able to move on. The only time I felt real bad is when I faded into the dreamland again and was shocked back into reality. Stay in reality. Do not be in a fog like your WW. Come out and look at the sunshine again. Rationalize everything, it helps to eliminate your emotions from the situation. Remember that your WW's A will end. They are incompatible so it is an imposible venture that she is beginning just now to see and is trying to rationalize. Do not fuel the fire between you two. The more understanding you are the more terrible she sees the OM. The most important part of Plan A is not to fill EN's but to avoid LB's and to do this you need to come out of your dreamland.

Well I had faced reality for a long time, I guess I just have let myself slip into your "dreamland".

I don't know...she has told me for several weeks (maybee a month) that she wants to work on our marriage and has stated that "she doesn't want a divorce" These words have gotten into my head, while her actions have lagged behind. I guess I am coming back out of my fog (or denial) and starting to see what the facts are (but I only have the usual BS suspicions...which are generally correct).

I think I just need to sit back and think. I know I can accept the A and all of its baggage, I was and still am prepared to do this. I don't know what else to say right now...too much running through my head.

Well counseling was interesting. Like always we started with how we would assess the week. WW gave it an 8, while i gave it a 6. She stated that we got along well and things were smooth. I stated that I agreed that things were smooth, but only from an efficiency point of view and that our R was still lacking.

I talked about how I felt WW was still not really involved in making things work. She stated again that she is trying.

I brought up OM and I think I did it in non-LB manner. WW stated that she still had feelings for him but that she was not seeing him outside of work. She admitted to still talking to him outside of work and trading messages. I stated that this made me sad but that I was glad she was being honest. I told her it was more important to me that she told me things versus keeping them from me. We talked about the fact that she still had very little feelings for me. I told her that I didn't know how we could begin to work on us if she maintained the relationship with OM.

Our counsleor told her that at some point she would have to make a decision. He stated that short of ending it he did not see how our M could work. She stated that she had told OM that she was working on her M. Counselor pointed out that this was not enough. OM might hear her words but the contact continues. He then asked me if I was comfortable with her still working there. I said no since OM had been attracted to WW from the start. WW denied this at first but then agreed when I pointed out things she had said. WW siad she didn't feel she could leave her job becasue of the financial security. I stated that this was hard to believe since she almost accepted another job in January. Counselor told her she was still confused and her circumstances were making it impossible to figure things out.

After counseling WW cried on the way home. I told her again that I was happy she was being honest and talking about things. I told her they did not make me mad just sad. I told her I wanted her to feel OK talking to me and assured her I would listen and be honest with her about how I feel. I told her I loved her and lots of things about her (you don't need the list). I also told her that where we are today is no better than the past (the roles and feelings have changed...I didn't have an A, but was withdrawn). I let her know I wanted so much more out of our marriage and that is what I am trying to accomplish.

I don't know how to feel about all of this. I think I did a good job of bringing up the A and didn't LB (I hope). I guess we will just have to see where this goes from here.

Hi Onward,

It still looks positive to me. True, she is still in the throes of an addiction. But she is going to C and getting help.

Lets look at some things.

1. She talks to you about it now. She used to hide it and lie about it, deny everthing.

2. She spends time with you. She used to stay away, brush you off.

3. She used to say she wanted D, then she said she didn't know. Now she claims she wants to work on it, that looks like improvement.

4. You were able to explain your point of view in counceling. I believe she used to blow up and refuse to discuss things, even in counseling.

I see progress here. You can see more than we see, and we don't get the whole story from reading here, what do you see?

She is slow. She has problems but I still see progress. On good days, how do you feel? We always feel rotten on bad says, that's a given.
Are the good days now better than they were - say even a month ago?

Sorry to make you work some more, you could use a rest, but that's the way it goes sometimes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
You' just have to put up with it.

Smile some, get some sleep, let us know what you think. We do care.

SS

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I am clapping. We all need to stand and give you cheer for being strong. You have made a GIANT step in your relationship with your wife. You inquired and she revealed and you inquired and she revealed and you held on strong and gave positive feedback. GREAT JOB. I am so happy for you. I know you do not feel happy now because as she begins to open up more and more, you will find out more about her true feelings, and they will be hurtful. Be prepared guard your feelings. Grasp reality.

You are starting to become friends again. This is step one in a relationship starting from scratch. Keep in mind that your relationship needs to start out as friends all over again. Then from friends to best friends, then from best friends to lovers. You see know what it takes to be intimate with someone (not just your wife). It is not just what you say but how you truly feel when someone is sharing intimate things with you. You are rebuilding intimacy by her sharing her feelings with you and you showing her (not just telling) how important her feelings are to you.

As we suspected, she has very very strong feelings for the OM still. She is holding on to her job because she is holding on to hope with the OM. Do not make any demands on her to quit her job or put pressure on her to do so. She will do this when she is ready. Use this as a sign that she really wants to work on the marriage (my sign is my WW's ring). This sign will help you from slipping into dreamland again. Unfortunately, unlike my WW, she can not go without contact with the OM and still be at work. My WW can make arrangements while working at home, not to have to support the OM anymore. The only sign that you need that she is comitted to you again is that she finds another job. This will be your sign that she wants to save your marriage and you need for her to make this decision on her own without pressure from you to do this.

I know how you feel now. I have been there. The truth is painful, but it WILL set you free.

<small>[ July 03, 2002, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>

OK, if anyone remembers that I got sprayed by a skunk a couple of months ago, I have an update. It seems the skunk that got me had a good reason. Last night I saw the skunk again, but this time she had four baby skunks with her. I guess I can't blame her anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Now on to more important things. WW today started a conversation about our marriage. She said that she is concerned about the school work I have to get done this summer. She stated that she feels like I need to make progress on it for her to feel comfortable with me. At first I was rather taken aback by this. I felt like she was putting conditions on me without giving anything herself. As I thought about it without LBing or saying anything I considered that at least this was her "taker" talking so she was at least engaging me. I told her that I would put more effort into getting things done and give her a timeline so she could assess my progress.

She then stated that she had talked about this in her individual counsleing (she has never talked about her counseling before). I asked her if she talked about the A also and she said yes. She then proceded to say that she felt the A and her feelings for OM had developed over a long time as she felt I had withdrawn. She also stated that she did not like the way I had talked to her in the past and that a major attraction of the OM was that he is so laid back and never says anything negative. She acknowledged that I have made great progress and cited examples as to how I am doing better.

I told her I was happy we were talking about this and let her know that the fact the A continues hurts me. I told her I was not angry but that it was difficult to make progress on my work with this on my mind. I also let her know that I did not view OM as a bad person, but that I could never accept him in our lives again. She stated that the A was totally initiated by her and OM wasn't the issue. I told her again that I did not view OM as a bad person, but that in retrospect I could see that he had always been attracted to her. She acknowledged this, but said she hadn't thought about it or asked him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . She did end the conversation by saying that she knew how to deal with the OM and the A, but was not ready yet. I didn't pursue this since I didn't want to make a demand.

In general I see more progress here (I guess). If nothing else I now have more information to refine my plan A.