Dreamland -

I did notice you posted on my thread when all h*** was breaking loose for you. I appreciate you thinking about me and adding your thoughs. Yes it is a long path, but you are helping me make some postive steps. Without your support and advice I may not have seen how to get her to start opening up. I hope you and Mrs. Dreamland are hanging in there (I left a comment on your poll thread).

Still Seeking -

Thank you for continuing to check in on me. I may know what I need to do, but I don't always do it. Your advice and comments are very important to me. I see you as one of the people who really understands the MB concepts and how to put them into action, with success.

The four points you make in your post are correct. As for progress you can see from my other post tonight that there are more good things going on. In some respects I think she is still testing me to see if I can make the changes she wants to see. Is this fair (with no committment to end the A), no not necessarily. But the things that she is asking will benefit me as much as her so there is no skin off my back for doing them. I guess my one concern is that she will come up with a new list once these are under control (she does have a habit of creating new things to worry about once a milestone is passed).

As for the good days...I would say they are better than a few months ago (a good day then was just to survive). On the other hand, the good days now remind me of the bad things in our R prior to D-day (just in reverse). So your could say we are better than the last few months, but as far as a marriage is concerned there is a lot of work to do.

OK...So we were having a deep conversation today. WW wanted to know what it would take to for me to trust her again. I replied that I think you already know this. She said "No". So I told her I have issues with her relationship with OM and I feel like you want to keep your realtionhsip with him. I told her I was uncomfortable with the work relationship and her need to keep things secret from me.

She then had the nerve to say "I guess this means you won't be coming to the work Christmas party". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I realy wanted to say "if you are still working there at Christmas I don't think I'll be with you so it doesn't matter". I didn't say anything but it is so hard to understand where her head is (I think it is up her A**).

We talked some more and she told me additional needs that she has (back to the admiration and telling her she looks good). In general the conversation was not all that bad, but I get so frustrated by her lack of caring for how I feel and understanding about what it will take to get to recovery. I am starting to feel like I may need to go to plan B at some point down the line because she is sucking the life out of me. I realize there is still lots more that I can improve (this is what I am going to do for now). I just don't think she realizes that her actions are making me doubt if I realy want to be with her.

Onwardandup,

I have been out on vacation, so have not checked in till this morning. We had a great holiday vacation with family at a nearby lake resort. My WW is going through withdrawal. Not as heavy and hard as the first go round. She is nearly convinced herself that the A is over, but still not quite there emotionally. I can here what is going on in her mind if I sit still enough and push out my hurt long enough to listen to her. She is making progress in her thinking. She is slowly becoming much more rational.

I almost did not want to come back here to the MB site. I really received quite a bit of negativity from my last couple posts. I can understand. Many people here are driven by the emotional aspect on things. Emotionally speaking, I am crazy. I can feel that people really do care about me here and my situation. They care enough to see that I am being taken advantage of. I know this and I am O.K. with it for a short duration.

Sorry about talking so much about myself here.

I think you are doing an excelent job. She is finally starting to open up a little. Be careful with your feelings here. You are not going to like what she is going to tell you. Once she begins to tell you all of her feelings, it will be tremendously painful. The pain will be much more difficult then if she kept her feelings to herself, but it is critical for you to move on to being friends. Her talking to you about her feelings will help you stay out of the dreamland and in reality.

I would like to address specifically some things I noticed in your posts:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She said that she is concerned about the school work I have to get done this summer......She also stated that she did not like the way I had talked to her in the past and that a major attraction of the OM was that he is so laid back and never says anything negative. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Listen very carefully to what she is telling you about you. They are trees that seeds have sown long ago. Try to look beyond the leaves and branches and trunk that time has grown, but pay attention to the seed that was planted. God has given us women as a "help meet". In other words, God has put in women an ability to polish the diamond in the rough into what God intended for us to be. Women constantly remind (nag as some men may say) us of our faults. We get so angry mainly because of our hardened hearts and pride. Shutting out what our wifes (yes even WW's) is shutting out what the Holy Spirit is saying to us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW wanted to know what it would take to for me to trust her again. I replied that I think you already know this. She said "No". So I told her I have issues with her relationship with OM and I feel like you want to keep your realtionhsip with him. I told her I was uncomfortable with the work relationship and her need to keep things secret from me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do not think your WW was talking present tense, even though you might have seen it this way. She obviously is still having an affair, you know she is still in this affair, and she has told you she is still having an affair. So what "trust" do you think she was talking about. She is talking about your future with her after OM is out of the picture. Try not to get so wrapped up in the present circumstances, it will make it difficult for you to see clearly to what the future holds. (Sounds easy, but I had a tough time with this myself).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In general the conversation was not all that bad, but I get so frustrated by her lack of caring for how I feel and understanding about what it will take to get to recovery. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO: I think she does care about how you feel, and I think she feels real guilty. That is why she is so torn up right now. She knows the OM has to leave in order for recovery to occurr. She does not want recovery now. She wants to make the M work (in her mind), but she is holding out for the OM (in her heart). She is committed to the OM heart and body, but in her mind she is committed to you. Do not forget this. She is not yours anymore, she belongs (and has given herself) to someone else. This is the current state. She will eventually give up the OM (the A is on its last leg). You are showing her what she fell in love with and it is helping her chose the right path (dump the OM). The winner in all of this is the one that is left standing, unfalted, innocent, steadfast, true love, and stronger and better than ever(YOU).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am starting to feel like I may need to go to plan B at some point down the line because she is sucking the life out of me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan B is not a good idea now. The A is dying a natural death. Let it die. Do not get sucked into dying with it. If I did not see signs that the A is dying and if I saw signs that you could not handle this, I would recommend Plan B, but you are very strong and you understand what true love is. True love you can see when all the other love is stripped from you. I see you have this love for WW. Hold on to this love.

She is not sucking the live out of you, she is sucking Love Units from your love bank. You are feeling withdrawal. Monitor this closely because you will get to a point where you will not feel any love for her anymore. When this happens, you will need to get your affairs in order. Remember you will sink into this pit several times as she deposits love units you will pull out of it. Then she will talk about OM and you will sink back into it. When you are in the pit for a week or so, it will be time to consider (Plan B) unless you can live with her without LB'ing.

I think you are closer to the seeing the end of the A then you actually know. I would give it at least a couple of months.

Work on being her friend and establish a good line of communication. Just keep in mind that you are not going to like to here her feelings and prepare for it!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just don't think she realizes that her actions are making me doubt if I realy want to be with her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Her actions have improved significantly. The "fog" is lifting. What is so hurtful to you is her opening up to you and you finding out what is truly inside. This is a very very very positive action. What you are seeing is reality and it hurts. The past actions are painful, but her present actions are very hopeful. Focus on the present, not the past.

Well I have got to go, spent too much time online already. I hope this helps you and what I said has not hurt.

Hi Onward,

I think Dreamland is right on the money here. I won't comment on each item, I don't disagree with him at all on any point.

And I think you are correct also.

You speak of continuing to improve because that's all you can do now. I agree you should continue to improve. You should talk to her about that. Ask for feedback. I wouldn't worry much about her finding lots of new things once you get the first batch done. If you get into recovery, you will be able to work that out.

Watch out for what dream says about her hurting you when she talks. She won't see that she is doing it, and it will really hurt. DON'T LB when she starts coming out with radical honesty. That's another thing you can be up front about. "W I love you and want to know what's going on, but sometimes it hurts me more than I can stand, if I walk away, please let me go until I can process the pain and come back to the conversation."

You are at the point where you can talk. Some would disagree but I always think that is the prelude to recovery. It seems to me, that when they are willing to talk, they want to recover and are looking for a way to make it happen. Like an alcoholic that finally says " I have a problem." It's the first REALLY BIG step. She doesn't know all that you know. You have put a great deal of effort into recovery, she is just starting to realize that she wants it. She doesn't' t know how to get over an A. She doesn't know how to give you back trust ( sorry, I disagree with you on that one.) She won't know half of what you have told her the last few months, she really wasn't listening.

Lets discuss her for a little bit.
A. She wasn't able to see what was happening and find this site or something like it before she went for the A. You did, that should tell you something about her state of development compared to yours. She sought for short term release of pressure, you sought for increased pressure with a long term solution.
B. You have done most of the work in saving your marriage. You could have just walked away when you found out but you didn't. She also could have walked away, but she didn't. Think about that one.
C. She doesn't spend much time learning about the dynamics of marriage and how to work on it. You spend lots of time at it.
D. She really doesn't understand herself very well, or know why she did what she did. ( she could probably give you a reason, but she really doesn't understand it.)
E. She doesn't understand you and your changes, and she doesn't know yet that it is for real.
F. She hopes it is for real, she hopes marriage is going to be saved but she doesn't know how it will work. Her ideas about it working are not very realistic, she believes that somehow everything will be fine in a short time, but she has no idea how that will come about.

My point is that you think she should be coming along but it is so slow, you are wondering if you can take it any longer. Look at Orchid, Cali, Hope4you, Lor, and many, many others. Over a year after D day for many of them and they are just now getting some results. Some are BS, some are WS. Usually, only one of them gets it. One does most of the work. There is no way in the world that she can understand it as well as you do, or come along as fast as you have come. You either have to wait for her, or leave her.

I don't think any of us would blame you if you said." I can't take it any longer, I'm done." That is reality much of the time. If you get there, don't prolong your agony. But, as long as you want to continue, we will help you work on it.

Go over it all again with her. Do it NICELY. When she asks, that's when you can teach. Ask her again if she wants to talk about trust. If yes, teach her. Tell her only as much as she can take. Preface it with your feelings so she knows where you are too. APOLOGIZE TO HER for not telling her what she asked before. Lay it all out for her.

1. W, I am love you and want our marriage to recover.
2. I realize that I was part of the problem and I am working on changing. ( how am I doing?)
3. I can only go on so long without help from you.
4. Here is what I need from you right now. ( and then tell her.) When you get to no contact, not working with OM she will resist it, you already know that. You need to find a way to make it about your feelings, not about her actions. You don't believe your feelings of trust can return, or your damaged emotions can heal if she has continued contact. Perhaps some men could do it, but you cannot. So, even if she could remain in contact and stop A, you would not be able to cope with it emotionally.
5. It is emotionally draining for me to have seen you go for someone else. It continues to drain me to wonder what is still happening.
6. I will soon get to the point where I can't take it any longer.
7. When I get to that point I will have to leave or go insane, so I will leave.
8. My state of mind has nothing to do with your good intentions, you have to show me with your actions that you want to make it work.
9. Explain how it has affected you emotionally. Had a hard time doing school work, depressed, moody ( or whatever, but let her see your hurt.) Apologize for it, but get it out.
10. Recap.
" W, I am going to demonstrate my changes to you. Prove I care, Prove I want you, Prove you and this marriage are important. Then, after you have had time to know I am for real, it will be your turn. You will need to demonstrate that you want me the same way. Show no contact, etc. If you can't do it for me, I will leave. " She needs to understand that it is not an ultimatum. It's just that there will be no reason to stay with someone that has chosen to leave you and be with someone else.

Add whatever else you want to add. Do it on a good day for both of you.

Onwardandup, these are just ideas, hope you can find something you can use in all this. Continue to improve, give her reason to believe you can become what she wants, needs. Care for her and protect her at all costs. Be the person she always dreamed you would be, could be. I still see good, but I see lots of work too. Lots of work.
All of us have pride, do things wrong. If you can cut her some slack for her weaknesses, she will respond in the right way. We hope your love can outlast her pride.

When you start to get burnt out, take a week off and just coast. Back off, don't watch her so close, or talk to her so much. If she asks, tell her why in a nice way. " The effort of trying to rebuild our marriage when I know you chose to have an A is very draining for me. Long term I think it will work, short term, I am exhausted, please give me some space." These kinds of things are not LB. But keep it nice, or it will be. Be careful of the words you use, and your tone of voice.
See you later,
SS

<small>[ July 08, 2002, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

Hi O.

Looking forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. We haven't spoken for a while, so I'll indulge myself and give you an update on what is going on with me (I know you're hanging on the edge of your seat). You and I may need to lean on each other for a change because my deadline of the end of Aug. is approaching. After over a year of separation, and not much movement one way or another in the last six months, WH and I agreed (at my suggestion) that we would give it a few more months and then I would need some closure. He would be apparently content to let the present situation continue indefinitely, probably until I was permanently replaced.

It has been really rough, and although I had been getting on with my life, seeing other people, building a life where I was just HJL and not part of a couple, the realization that the end is probably near is very scary. It's very difficult to actually and finally give up hope, when you've been carrying it around with you for a long time. I have been talking to my C about the fact that the inertia has taken a toll, and that toll is mounting. Limbo is only bearable if you have some hope that it will change, and when it doesn't change for a long while, you realize that it would be better to snuff that candle out and start over, rather than to continue to put your life on hold. This could go on forever, if I let it. I have given him fourteen months of my life to make a decision. I worked on myself and attempted to make positive changes, not just for him, but for myself, and I have benefitted from it. It's sad, but one of the things that happened along the way was I realized that he wasn't growing up; he just got smaller.

I know it is not the hope of many people posting here, God bless them, but sometimes it just doesn't happen. For those who don't know anything about me (and I don't wish to start a dialogue about myself on O's thread - he needs your support) I am in a situation where my WH does not want a divorce, talks about how great it would be if we could reconcile and have a better R, but works all the time and takes no real action to achieve these goals. When asked, he maintains, after over a year, that he still doesn't know what he wants. O, I see some similar things developing in your situation, so if you are in it for the long haul, as I was, be prepared for the possibility that your limbo could last for a long time, without you feeling as if you have any real value to your WW. It's very tough on the self-esteem, so it's good that you have IC to rely upon. Keep up with it, it was a lifesaver for me.

I have felt used because he sees me as a safety net - I'm there for him, and he can come and go as he pleases without giving me anything to sustain my faith in him, and he thinks I'll still be there for him to fall back on. I have been told by my C that once I initiate the divorce process, I will feel better because I will be doing something for myself to end the confusion and limbo and pain that I have been suffering from for over a year. I fought that for over a year and Plan A'd as much as I could. But my experience has been that you can't make any real change when only one person is committed to working it out. Causing someone to fall back in love with you is a very, very difficult process, and it works for some people here, but sadly not for me. I am at least grateful that I have made the most out of my time alone, I have done some work on myself and although I am scared about giving up, I think I will be ok.

The next six weeks for me will be about trying to have the patience to wait it out without snapping and saying "I know where we're headed, let's just cut to the chase." They will also be about gathering the strength to do what I know I have to do at the end of that time. I don't want to file; I still love him, even though he has deeply disappointed me. It's heartbreaking, but WH is not the man I married (or thought I married), and even if we were to reconcile, I have to admit I don't see myself being very happy with him, always being afraid that he would leave again. Somewhere I need to find the strentgh, when I end it, to REALLY end it, and not contact him, not respond when he contacts me, and just put him in my past. O, you've seen this unfold over the last year, and I know, even though you are committed to the principles laid out here, you would probably agree that it is over. I gave it my best shot and I wish him well. I'm sure at some point he will find someone new, but he will never find another woman like me. Cerebrally, I know I will be fine, but my innards are still afraid of closing the door and locking it behind me. Might need your help. You know the situation, so you know this is not going to come easy for me.

Sorry to go on and on and usurp your thread to talk about myself. Despite my own experience, I still hope the best for you and your W. I'm an optimist at heart, even now. Let me know if there's anything I can do. H.

HI, just wanted to touch base, mainly because we seem to have alot in common as far as A's go!!! I went on retreat to the beach (cool retreat!) without H and had a great time, lots of meditation and sun. Things are the same for me, might as well post the same thread as last month. H and I are just beginning counseling, our pastor did not think I was far enough along to start the heavy stuff last time we talked. Now, I still feel the shock and all but I can get through the day well enough.

OW remains in the picture, although she is behaving herself a bit now. She seems to find a way to work a shift with my husband whenever he is there. He doesn't see it as unusual, but a flag goes up for me every time he mentions her (he continues to tell me every time they speak or see each other).

I was looking over your thread, I had no idea what you are going through. I'm sorry that you aren't able to open her up more about everything. My husband used to play those games with me, like it was all in my mind. Thank God for whomever it was that called me four weeks ago today (can't believe that!). The part the still gets me: He would still be seeing her like always if I hadn't gotten that call.

This may take me a while (till tomorrow) to finish all of the posting I need to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry I have been absent for a few days (just needed a mental health vacation from all the good news on this forum)

First to HJL -

I'm sorry that reality is hurting so bad. Yes, it has been a long road you have been down. I want you to know that I am always there to talk and provide a shoulder of you need one.

As for the situation and upcoming deadline, I know it is tough. No matter how much we try, when the reality of an end comes into sight it is difficult. Only you know what you must do when September comes and I know you will make the right decision (for you...and that is who the decision needs to be for).

Try to remember this is not about you. You have looked at yourself and made changes. If things go the way they are looking, it is not because you did not give it the effort. You are a good person and life will treat you right in the long run.

Lastly, I would say try not to focus on the deadline, it will make you crazy. Just try to be the good person that you are and enjoy the rest of the summer. Yes this is hard, but there is no reason to drive yourself crazy for six weeks (heck, its been 14 months <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ).

You know how to reach me if you want to talk.

Tere38 -

I'm glad you are starting to feel a litle more under control. There will be good days and bad days so take it easy and take care of yourself. I know this may not be what you want to hear, but it is better to be prepared for the ups and downs versus having them sneak up and hit you over the head.

The OW will be a trigger for a whole range of emotions for you and these will not just fade away. I assume your H is telling you that she is working when he is and letting you know about any interaction they have. This is a very positive sign and I think it speaks volumes about his desire to work on your marriage.

As for the counseling be prepared to take it slow. These things need to take time, even if you and your H want to make more progress. Instead of rushing things, your time will be well spent in building a solid foundation for you re-build your marriage. (I'm not implying that you intend or want to rush things, just giving my opinion about how to procede).

Good luck and keep me updated on how things are going.

Cheers.

Wow, this is a huge thread!! I have tried multiple times to start a new thread for myself, but can't seem to compose it well enough to keep it from rambling. I hope that you are doing well, that your 'vacation' was just what you needed. I know mine was, it was hell leaving him behind, but he's been sleeping with her under my nose for two years so if he's going to do it he's going to do it. By the way, he says he didn't and we talked for hours every night while I was gone, so I worried for naught.

We are currently going through the 'How much do you actually want to know about the A?' phase, and I am struggling with this. I don't want him to have anything to think about later on that I don't know myself, but then I am left with these mental images that are sickening. He is willing to put it all out there, but is it healthy for me to want to know all the details?

On an up note, I am in better physical condition now than I have been in years. Someone on this site called it the 'infidelity diet'. I actually can see my abs and have dropped three sizes in one month. I jog five days a week, the endorphins are amazing. Also, I figure if I am in some competition with this other person, I intend to win. It's the first time in my life that I have had to fight for the guy, I usually won without trying very hard. Getting slapped in the face occasionally can do wonders for the psyche, I suppose.

Hope you have a great Sunday. We are going to H's family reunion this afternoon, what fun.

Tere38 -

Sorry for the length of my thread. I guess most of it is a lot of rambling, but I feel better just continuing on versus starting a new thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As for how much to know, it is a personal decision. There are many here who would advocate knowing everything, but that doesn't have to be the case. My individual counselor has suggested that what is more important is solving the issues going forward versus looking at the past. In some ways there is a certain amount of detail that probably doesn't help the BS. It is also possible that no matter how much the WS tells a BS, there will remain some doubt. So IMHO it is most important to talk about no-contact, the WS being honest if there is contact, how to deal with triggers, and how to A-proof your marriage in the future.

The "diet" worked for me too. At my low point I was down 24 pounds and I was skinny to start. At least I've gotten some of those pounds back so I look healthy.

OK, now that I've taken care of everything else, I can get on with what has been going on on my end.

I took the week off (as suggested by Still Seeking) to recharge the batteries and think. One of the things that had been bothering me was that I was posting a lot of things here but not communicating with my WW. In some respects this was to give her the space she requested, but I was also afraid of her reactions to my feelings (I was not sure she would care or consider them important).

I still have been having a hard time getting things done and my sleep has been very erratic. I made the decision to increase my anti-D dosage to the standard dose (I had been on a low dose). I thought this was wise because I need to get my focus back and there are still a lot of potential pitfalls ahead. My individual counsleor agreed that this was the right thing to do. She also told me that I needed to address my concerns with WW and suggested I do it in our next joint counsleing session.

WW has still been showing some improvement. She worked late one night this week and called several times to tell me what the reason was. When she got home she even told me she was afraid I would think she was with OM. I told her I appreciate this and I believe her. I told her I have my fears about her and OM and that she was helping to keep them under control.

I decided yesterday to have a conversation with WW about the OM and contact. I started by telling her that I had increased my anti-d dosage becasue I was still having concerns about us. I told her that I am having difficulty with her working with OM and that it is a big issue for me. I told her this wasn't about her as much as my ability to feel secure in a future relationship with WW. I focused on my feelings and was very calm (Yes I used your plan, STILL SEEKING - THANK YOU). At one point my WW was still hearing what she wanted to hear and said "I'm glad we talked, I though you were going to say I needed to leave my job or you would leave me". I calmly replied "You may have misinterpreted me, I am telling you that I need to feel secure in my relationship with you and I can't live in constant fear. I want OM out of our life totally and as far as I can see there is no way you can work there and we can achieve this." I also let her know that since she has admitted that she still has feelings for OM, I was not sure how she would resolve this while she was still working with him.

At first she walked away after the conversation, so I kept working outside (she wants a screen porch and deck built off the back of our house and I was working on the holes for the support posts). As an aside, on last Tuesday I went outside and found a baby skunk in one of the holes I had dug. I didn't want it to die, but I certainly didn't want to get sprayed again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . I decided to get it out of the hole and take my chances. After I lifted it up, it was very happy and proceeded to follow me around the yard for a while. It never sprayed me and eventually went into the woods in search of its family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

So back to my WW...after a while she came out and we talked some more. I told her I wasn't trying to make a demand of her nor did I want her to take a job she didn't like. I restated how her contact with OM made me feel and how I couldn't get past this. I told her I was willing ot work with her to find a solution that we could both be happy with. We never argued and left it as a topic we would take up in joint counseling on Tuesday (I know the counselor will not dispute my point of view on this one). We both agreed that in that in the counseling session we may be better able to find a mutually agreeable solution.

Last night and this morning she has been more affectionate than lately, even coming to hug and hold me. I can't tell what she is thinking but I consider it an important step that we were able to have this conversation outside of counseling. I know I could have waited for the counseling session, but I thought it was worth the risk to try it on our own. I guess only time will tell.

Hi Onward,

I hope that with all you have been through, you are still OK in side your heart. I can tell you have your head on straight but I worry about your feelings. Still, you sound OK, pretty good actually.

I have read hundreds of stories on this site and can't remember any where good communication returned without recovery being far behind. I hope it is true for you.

Remember that both of you ( all of us, you are not alone) have a long way to go. You will have to be careful of what you say and how you say it for quite some time. It will eventually become habit, and you can quit worrying about it. You will be working on your marriage forever, as near as I can tell, it never ends, but you get happier and happier as you go. ( 25 years for me.)

Watch yourself, but keep up the good work.

SS

So Onward,

Is the up part of your name still valid?

Tell us how things are going -

I hate to admit I worry about you, but I find I still do.

Ss

I think this baby skunk was an *~~omen~~* !

You will be handling some stinky subjects in the future ... and you will come out *smelling like a rose* .........

Yes, that's it. I'm sure.

Pepper <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ONWARDANDUP!!!!

WHERE ARE YOU???!!!!!

I am yelling here in hope you will hear.

Onward? Onward? You still there?
Anyone seen Onwardandup lately?

Maybe I should look over by the copy machine?
Onward?

<small>[ August 05, 2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

OK, Hi everyone. Yes I'm still here (not usually logged-in, but doing some lurking).

Why am I not posting like I used to? What has been happening? Are things better? What is the meaning of life?...All good questions, and I'm not sure I know the answer to any of them but I'll give it a shot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lets start with why I haven't been posting all of the time. (1) When I last posted my anti-d's had been increased. This turned into a disaster. I couln't sleep but was not energized and instead lethargic all of the time. In some respects I felt like I was in a fog all of the time. My dosage has now been dropped back and I am feeling better. (2) I have an incredible ammount of work to do. I am completing one paper, starting a new one (very important), preparing to teach a new class this fall, working on hugh deck off the back of the house, and been out of town a few times. I will shortly be away again for a week long conference. (3) Sometimes the forum can take a lot of time and leave you depressed when you see all of the pain out there.

What has been happening...(1) WW and I are still going to joint counseling and it has still been positive. Our counselor has asked her to consider leaving her job, but has made no progress. He also has made the comment that she needs to work harder and I am doing most of the talking and work. (2) She has ended all phone calls with OM and is now getting her cell phone bill at home. (3) She states that she is over OM but this is hard to verify since I didn't see much withdrawal. She has made some comments that indicate her displeasure with how OM runs the business (she hadn't done this in a long while). (4) WW is becoming much more loving to our daughter and her level of stress/anger/ect. about life in general seems to be improved.

Are things better?...Maybee? I am in a position now where I will not let my hopes get too high. In some respects I am guarding my feelings while I continue with Plan A. If I step back, I would have to say that things continue to improve, but they are still not where they need to be by a long shot. As has been noted by SS, my WW seems to be very slow in making progress. She is at least exhibiting her taker which means she is engaged in some form of R with me. I am trying to find the ballance between letting her taker get fullfilled while stressing that what I want is give and take.

What is the meaning of life?...This one I do not have an answer for <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Right now I am trying to focus on defining what I want out of life versus what others expect of me.

Dreamland -

I have read you recent posts (you aren't posting as much lately also). Is your WW's A over? This is the same question I ask myself. Just ending contact or saying it is over doesn't seem to give us the confidence that this is the case. IMHO, the A is over when the WS decides to move down a new life path (like when the M stoped and the A began). To me this happens after withdrawal and the choice could be to start working on a relationship with the BS again or choose to create a whole new life.

At this point I think the best thing for either of us is to continue with Plan A. I see you have been trying to find things that make you happy and I think that is the right thing to do. I am rediscovering what gets me excited about my career choice. Designing and building the screen porch/deck also gives me a lot of pleasure and this is something I can do with WW.

Thats all for now. Cheers.

<small>[ August 06, 2002, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: onwardandup ]</small>

Hi Onward,

The time you spend on this forum is supposed to be for your benefit. If you don't have the time, always put first things first and take care of your family and school.

We just wanted you to know that we care about you and that in this world where so much bad happens, people are wishing good for you.

I hope you keep reading HNHN over and over. I don't believe we can ever retain something 100%. I think that information renewal helps us maintain relationship renewal.

Everything you have said leads me to believe that in time, things will be right at your house.

SS

PS, Just for your information, Dreamland seems to be doing much better. He is more positive, seems to have gotten himself together and is not suffering so much. I am pretty sure he will be OK the rest of his life.

Thanks SS...

I know peolpe here realy care and the forum has provided me with a great amount of support. The hard part of the forum is realizing not to let it take over too much precious time.

I have always appreciated your comments and have found you insights to be right on track. I hope your predcitions continue to come true.

I hope all is going well for you.

Cheers

HEY ONWARDANDUP!!!!

I missed you buddy. I went to Georgia Institute of Technology for undergraduate and graduate work and know what it is like to have the screws turned to you. I did not have a life outside of school then.

I wish I had the same drive you do. I am envious of your ability to put attention toward anything other than your situation. GOOD JOB.

I am feeling much better, but unable to get motivated to work. I need to put it into high gear before my projects start to turn sour. I have good people working for me, and for that I am thankfull. I am stuck at the MB site most of the time at work. I need to set boundaries for myself, but I am not motivated enough to do so.

I bought a new car. Finally tossed out the 92 civic without AC and barely working radio (engine blew). I purchased a 2003 VW Passat. Sweet car!!!

I have been posting quite a bit,.... some insite later.

You are correct about defining the end of the A. You put that in good words. I never thought about it that way before. It is hard to see the steps that my WW is taking to improve us. She is still in withdrawal. She has had minimal contact with OM, mostly business (two to three telephone calls according to her). Only one of the calls was personal because she received an apology letter from OMW. She says she still has strong feelings for OM still.

I am not sure what else I can do. She says I am a terrific husband and she says she watched Oprah the other day and could define me as an excellent husband (or something like that).

I have not tried MC yet. With our schedules being as tight as they are, this would be very difficult. I am not sure if I will try MC. I will give the withdrawal part some time and see if the A is actually over. It has been a solid month.

It sounds like things are improving for you too.

I am begining to believe that all marriages go through bumps in the road that brings the love banks to near empty. Infideltiy I think just hastens the whole process. I believe I heard almost 80% of marriages are touched by infidelity. Even then, it did not take infidelity to put us in the state we are in, our marriages were almost already there. The hard part about A's is that us truly good BS's need to put up with all of this crap until the A is over. Then we have to rebuild all that was lost.

In a way, I am looking foward to dating again. We are going out tomorrow on a date, I hope. We have anchored a good babysitter, the same babysitter that watches the kids till noon during the day so that WW can work. I am looking foward to re-awakening the passion we once had. I believe it could be as good,if not better, then when we first met. Maybe that is just the optimist speaking.

<small>[ August 06, 2002, 08:07 PM: Message edited by: dreamland ]</small>