1. I never wanted to get M'd (26.5 years ago!).
2. M is "legalized prostitution" (So, what's an A?!)
3. You can love somebody until you have to live with them (Maybe, if I'd known about the A, I should have INSISTED that WW live with OM, so she could stop loving him!)
4. I can't say that I don't love OM. I can't say that I don't love you, either. (The not-unblack dog chased the not-unwhite rabbit across the not-ungreen field. - George Orwell).
5. (when asked what her ENs were that he met and I didn't) I just needed a little bit more attention, not a lot. (so, why have an A? I still haven't gotten her to fill out the ENQ).
6. If we got a DV, would you still support me getting my PhD and would you work with me a month or so a year on my research? (I actually said "yes" initially, while I was still in shock from D-day, but I've changed that answer to "no" in no uncertain terms since).
7. You'd probably actually like OM. (But I'll NEVER know this, because I NEVER want to talk to him and I don't want HER to talk to him either... and it's best for HIM to not talk to either of us and work on his own M).
8. (at MC session) Would you agree to taking it a day at a time until our 30th anniversary, and then decide whether to DV or renew our vows? (That's 2.5 years from now. Answer: NO. And I said to MC, "If we're not in recovery long before then, we'll be DV'd by then." Meaning -and our MC translated this for her - I believe we should be able to end contact and start working on our M NOW, or very soon.)<p>More later, I'm sure.

All - <p>WS ... you two should become friends you are so much alike....<p>That's exactly what my H said!!!!!!!!!!<p>Also: She reminds me of you. You too are so alike...<p>So what does he need her for?????????????

My turn, My turn,<p>
#1
WH: Ive made my mistakes! And now Im doing what I feel I need to do to fix it! You cant keep bringing it up if you want me to fix things. Your never letting me forget it!!!<p>WH: What about all the pain youve caused me in the past? You have hurt me so bad I can never let it go or for give you! What about Me! Me, me , me, my pain, my pain, my pain, blah,blah, blah. (hes talking about my LBing ). Dont minimize my pain! (like my LBing and his A have caused the same amout of pain. Mind you, the last year of my LBing was due to his A) <p>#2
WH: This isnt about her! Its about us!<p>Me: ok, if its not about her then let her go so we can work on us.<p>WH: You see, you dont understand! We cant communicate. <p>#3
Me: Did you end the A?<p>WH: Yes. In my own way I did.
(mind you, they are still together)<p>#4
WH: All of these years, you put me through so much pain.<p>My thoughts: humm lets see, weve only been together 3 years, just got married a year ago, and youve been with OW for a year. Not to mention you led me to believe you were so happy. I wish you would have enformed me of this much sooner.<p>What the WH's dont realize when they say the "ive never been happy thing", is that it makes them even worse of a person for leading us on for so long,if that was really true.<p>PI

Ok got another- <p>WH: No one can tell me I havent tried! Cuz I know in my heart Ive tried all I possibly could!<p>My thoughts: Hmmm lets see, WH has never been to counseling of any kind, never tried to work on our marriage, never seeked advise from anyone other than OW, as a matter of fact he refused to get help, and the best of all.......never stopped seeing OW.

Okay I'm new here, but let me share some of the things I have heard so far.<p>WW: I'm just going through a selfish phase of my life<p>WW: For once I'm doing something for myself<p>WW: I just don't want to have to answer to anyone<p>WW: (on her moving out): I don't want to be with him (OM, after I just caught her calling OM the night before, even though she promised NC)<p>WW: I just don't want to be responsible for anyone but myself<p>WW (after I was Plan Aing instead of LBing after catching her trying to call OM): Your just kissing my A** now.

Here are my two faves:<p>1) "She's just like you...that's why I fell for her" (this seems to be a common one, but my ? is, if she's just like me, why did H need her?)<p>2) "You and her are the only two women I've ever cared about," or "I just hate it that I had to do this to two of the best people I've ever known.
(oh well...I guess at least it wasn't just her that was a good person).

some of the stupid things I said

"if we get a divorce can we still be friends"?
"would you still sleep with me if we were to get a divorce?"
"I don't know why we got married, we have nothing in common".

I can't believe how stupid I was.

onlyhuman: ""I don't know why we got married, we have nothing in common"."<p>My WW said something like this.<p>I had taken a week off work to go to (other state) where HER property is to WORK ON HER property. We were in the car, just approaching HER property, when she said: "We have nothing in common anymore, except the house (in So. Cal.)"<p>!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I will bite.<p>WS: I don't NEED anyone (after he left and was seeing OW. Yeah right. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Another time:<p>Me: I have been here for you always, supporting your career, moving our family to another country because it was you wanted.<p>WS: Yes but that doesn't matter....I don't NEED anyone. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Another:<p>WS: I don't want to be on my deathbed in fifty years and be lying there regretting that I stayed with YOU instead of leaving and having a life. (Does the word FOG mean anything here......what about regretting the lost years with his kids??? [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Another:<p>WS: I love you but I am not in love with you......you are like a sister to me (well, he has three sisters, and they are treated a LOT better than I am)<p>Another:<p>WS: I only married you out of obligation (no, I wasn't pregnant, and we had been together 7 years before we got married.<p>
OH!!! How about the one word he has NOT used.......it is implied, but he has NEVER said the word to me.....that word is DIVORCE.<p>The ludicrousy of these comments NOW does not take away the memory of how painful they were at the time, but they are laughable babble comments now. One day I hope he can see just how mind-numbingly stupid these comments were.<p>But I doubt it.

WH: "but she's a good Christian girl!"<p> [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

S'more:<p>WW, after D-day: "I broke it off because OM and I realized we didn't want to lose our families. I just figured I'd be alone."<p>WW, last month: "I never wanted to be alone."<p>The fog thinned a bit, but you could still operate a spark wrench (arc welder) through it without a mask (good UV protection, that fog!)

Well....Did I get it going or what?<p>Lots of useful info with these comments.<p>My WW says a lot of these things.<p>HCII

Oh Man.......<p>Here is one from 5 minutes ago, when she stopped by........She started the discussion, and.....<p>ME: Well, (X) Why didn't you leave me 2 years ago when you realized you had feelings for someone else, and not me, and started the A? We have no children, so why maintain the A for that long?<p>WW: Well....You've lived with me long enough to know how "good-hearted" I am.......<p>
What? Repeat that please?<p>BTW....Getting real depressed.....any experts want to help me privately? I don't know how much longer I can go on......<p>hclarkii at mikrotec dot com<p>HCII

My wife also said/says (don't know if it will come up again) stuff like I will regret this for the rest of my life if I don't leave now (talking about seperation).<p>Also how about this fog statement:<p>When she was getting telling me she was moving out (she hasn't yet), I asked her if she was ready to give us up forever and she said:<p>No, I know eventually we will end up together because your my soul mate. (errrrr, then why leave? And am I just supposed to wait for you until your ready? errrr).

my favorites:<p>Before d-day:<p>me: do you love me?
WH: yes, you will always be a part of my heart
me: do you find me sexually attractive?
WH: DUH...what do you think? (We had just finished SF)
me: Do you think I'm a good friend?
WH: You're my best friend.
me: Am I a good wife...etc?
WH: (All answers positive and yes)
me: So what's missing?
WH: There's just no "spark" anymore!!!!!!!!<p>WH: I think there might be someone better out there, you know someone more like me, someone who likes sports.<p>After d-day:<p>WH: she reminds me of you like when you were in high school (**yeah, free of stress, family responsibility, etc., DUH!)<p>WH: I don't want to lose the friendship.<p>ggrrrr

hcii,
This doesn't help you a whole lot... but that really is typical fog talk, hun.<p>WH: I love you, but not in love you. I have felt this way for 2 years.
me: What??? 2 years??? Why didn't you tell me - or do something about it (couseling, etc)
WH: I didn't want to hurt you.<p>DUH... like leaving or having an A would be the way to let me know without hurting me.<p>start a new thread hun, so this can continue as a funny and therapeutic fog thread, and we will do our best to help you. This is a long, hard road. You're completely normal to think you have reached the end of your rope from time to time. We'll help you tie knots, k?

This is my past experience with my H when he was in the midst of an EA and alcohol bender.<p>Me: Where are you going? or Who were you with? Why were you out till 3 am?
H: You're a nagging policing b***.
H: Why can't you be like the other guys wives?
H: Why can't you just trust me?
H: I want to take my friend out for coffee.
H: She's just a friend. (meanwhile he's already told me this one came on to him and flirted like mad.)
H: There's no feelings involved.
H: I feel sorry for her.
H: I'm not doing anything wrong.
H: Nobody would ever want to be with you.
H: No wonder I turn to other women.
H: I'm going to the gym. (comes home with perfectly fresh gym clothes and cologne hidden in bag.)
H: She's a born again Christian and wants me to go to church and coffee with her. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]
H: I don't know what I'm looking for.
ME: Why are you suddenly wearing cologne to the factory? H: I just want to smell nice. ME: For who? H: For myself.
ME: Why do I keep finding this same girls number around? H: She keeps asking me to go out and I say no. ME: Why do you call her back? H: I'm just humouring her. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>
When finally confronted with clear evidence from me, he loses it.
H: When will you get it through your head that I don't want to be with you!<p>Now he's sobered up and out of the fog and has a hard time believing/accepting I love and forgive him.<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: roseyhue37 ]</p>

Try topping these...<p>WW: I feel "creative" (around OM)
BS: (I've given WW plenty of time, money, and space for her to indulge her projects, trips to interesting places, etc.)<p>WW: I feel "alive"
BS: (as if I married a zombie from Dawn of the Dead)<p>WW: If you let me see him, I'll give you more time to yourself. I'll do more household stuff and watch the kids more.
BS: (Wow. What a deal!)<p>WW: I've waited 12 years to experience this.
BS: (Really? And I've waited all our marriage for you to respect me by not letting yourself get into A's !!!)<p>WW: In a birthday e-mail letter to her parents recounting events of her life, "In 2002, I fell in love again, something I thought I'd never experience again."
BS: (Oh. But they must be so touched! Life is such a bowl of cherries...and cake too!!!)<p>WW: You know, I think this will play itself out over the next couple months. By the way, we're going on a weekend trip to _____ in June. It's already been planned, you know.
BS: (Say what???!!!)<p>OM: In message to WW, "...BS doesn't realize that his full potential will be reached in leaving you."
BS: (...but will WW leave BS and marry YOU when BS is meeting many of her EN's? OM, you naive dumbbell.)<p>I could go on.

Some things i still can remember about 5 months after D-day.No contact was after a few weeks but fog still there
1. He(OM) is my soulmate-couple months later she said i have always been her soulmate and best friend
2. Never loved you like you loved me ( afterwards i never stopped loving you -during A she meant)
3. At least i can have fun with OM, not with you
4. 2 ys ago something snapped between us and i fled in my job (OM is co-worker)
5. we never have been sexually compatible, the OM was passion,never experienced that with you
(mind you she never fulfilled my S needs the first 10 y of our relation-last 4 ys were great)
6. We never did something for eachother (?)
7. I didn't get enough admiration(told her every day how much i loved her and how good she looked, goodbye kiss in morning and before going to sleep every day and lots of hugs during the day)
8. You're aggressive ( one of the things i liked about you when we dated was your calm and intelligence)
9. You always complain on my household-mind you i ALWAYS have helped her or did it myself with cooking,cleaning,ironing,gardening and same care for our daughter (diapers,giving bath,tell stories,playing,.....)and the rest that a man does<p>
Well is still makes me want to puke (FOG OR NO FOG)<p>
bs 31
WS 31
hs sweethearts
D-DAY late december 01
A with co-worker for 6 months
4 y girl
currently seperated

THE EVIL FOG...
(Sorry a little long)<p>I found the following information in a book and I thought you guys would find it interesting. It offers a medical/biological explanation for why the WS spouse has gone nuts.<p>It comes from a book titled &#8220;The Truth About Love&#8221; by Pat Love ED.D.<p>&#8220;When you meet a strong candidate for love, you limbic system is flooded with a powerful chemical concoction &#8211; so powerful the scientists now believe that the euphoria of infatuation is a bona fide, altered state of consciousness. It is induced by the action of phenylethylamine (PEA), which is a naturally occurring, amphetamine-like neurotransmitter. Michael Liebowitz, a research psychiatrist at the New York State Psychiatric Institute, explains that when we come into contact with a person who highly attracts us, our brain becomes saturated with a love cocktail comprised of PEA and several other excitatory neurotransmitters, including dopamine and norepinephrine. PEA, known as the &#8220;love molecule&#8221;, works in concert with dopamine and norepinephrine and triggers incredible side effects. Symptoms include a delightfully positive attitude, increased energy, decreased need for sleep, and loss of appetite. Increased concentrations of dopamine in the brain are associated with euphoria.&#8221;<p>&#8220;PEA, dopamine, and norepinephrine pack such a powerful chemical wallop that people in the throes of infatuation undergo a temporary personality change... This is why lovers say things like &#8220;I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m talking to you like this. I&#8217;m telling you things I&#8217;ve never told anybody&#8221; Or, &#8220;You&#8217;re so easy to talk to&#8221;<p>&#8220;The delightful influence or infatuation makes us dangerously inclined to make decisions we may later regret&#8221;<p>&#8220;Full-blown infatuation knows no fear&#8230; The frenzied action of lovers&#8217; neurons renders the fearless and unrealistically optimistic. It is no wonder that they tend to discount alarming qualities in their sweethearts.&#8221;<p>&#8220;When you are aroused, any number of partners can give you simple sexual relief. Infatuation is different. You can be attracted to a number of people but infatuated with only one at a time. Infatuation is characterized by focused attention on a specific partner. When you are infatuated with someone, only this person can give you those euphoric &#8220;in love&#8221; feeling.&#8221;<p>&#8220;It is important, though, to realize that infatuation is merely the earliest stage of love. Do not mistake this temporary power surge for a permanent condition, or confuse it with true love.&#8221;<p>&#8220;The euphoria of infatuation only lasts about six months and then it slowly begins to wane. By the second year, scientists tell us that lovers are on their own without the aid of Mother Nature&#8217;s love potion.&#8221;<p>
There are some key phrases here such as &#8220;altered state of consciousness&#8221;, &#8220;temporary personality change&#8221;, &#8220;fearless and unrealistically optimistic&#8221;, &#8220;dangerously inclined to make decisions they may later regret&#8221;, and finally "Wanes after 6 months. (Yea!!)<p>Take Care,
L&F [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]