How do you do it? Just when things seem to be going better - my W says that she knows she needs to end contact; says that she wants to stay together because of me, not just the kids; says that the PA is over, just occasional phone calls and coffee together in public places - then today I see an email from him thanking her for yesterday afternoon - the "best time of his life". All about bodies tingling and stuff. Nothing explicit, but very personal, loving, all that.<p>I don't want to be emotionally unavailable to my wife, but this is killing me (well, really hurting anyway). Do most of you Plan A'ers (with the A still active) spend lots of RC time with your S? It's during these times that I start feeling close to her again, but then reality sets in and I realize that the closeness is just an illusion, or at best a shadow of the closeness that I long for. Then I start to distance myself to stay sane, then ...<p>I feel like I get some sort of protection built up to wall in my feelings for her, then she says those nice things and it comes crashing down. Then she does these horrible things and the pain is TOO MUCH. I feel like a paper clip that is being bent one way, then the other. Finally, it just breaks.<p>Am I doing something wrong? I don't see how this can go on for months (my plan A is about 2 months old).

Baffled,<p>Plan A is about learning new marital behaviors, and establishing a consistent track record of these new marital behaviors with your spouse. It's also a time in which you attempt to negotiate an end to the affair (using the POJA---or a one-sided version that says "never gain at your spouse's expense).<p>It sounds like you're making some real headway. You're spending quality time, and you ARE reforging these feelings of love. I'm sure it does feel like an illusion---but when a person is in an affair, it's very difficult to sort out what they're really feeling. Don't try. <p>How did you find out about this email? Are you actively snooping? I've given the advice several times before that you want to learn how to act during these difficult situations, not react. Another analogy going around the emotional needs board is "be a thermostat, not a thermometer". When you snoop, you're putting your love for your wife at risk. It's hard to be a thermostat when you're holding a blowtorch to it. Stop your snooping. It will give you more staying power in Plan A. You don't need these details.<p>I'd suggest that you attempt to negotiate an end to the affair, using MB rules (if you haven't recently asked for this). Discuss the no-contact letter. Ask about getting a plan in place that includes complete no contact (it may involve moving). See what the response is (it'll probably be negative---she's still having the affair). Back off, but let her know that the contact does hurt you, and that when she is ready to truly end this affair, to please let you know.<p>And then, you stay in Plan A until just before you're ready to break. My guess is that if you keep snooping (or getting your face rubbed in the affair), you'll probably last another month before you need plan B. If you can stop snooping, and negotiate an end to phone calls (in your presence) and "in person" visits that you are aware about, you may squeeze out another 2-4 months. But in this situation, I would not Plan A for longer than 6 months, unless you see real, measurable progress that would lead you to not want to risk a separation.<p>And counseling with one of the Harleys (888-639-1639) is a terrific idea, if you're not doing it already. Steve saved my sanity during my Plan A and B episodes.

And Baffled,
Remember, plan A is not just a trick to get your W back..it really is about being the best YOU possible..whether or not she is there. This builds your strength and self esteem no matter which way things go. I made plan A my way of life. Treat everyone in the best possible way. This doesn't mean ignoring your principles, but it means learning to treat everyone with respect and kindness..the old Golden Rule.<p>It is hard..your mind is going 5000 miles per minute. You are on the rollercoaster. Realize that these ups and downs are sooooo normal and there will be times you think you can't go on. You can.<p>Whenever it all got to me I reviewed lovebusters..made sure I got them out of my system so I wouldn't get caught making a sarcastic remark or judgement when we were together.<p>Get more RC time together if that seems to be pleasing her..get laughing together..go see a comedy..It's really hard not to like someone who is making you laugh.<p>And get some time for you..go play ball, work out at the gym..something physical!
Hang in there..you CAN do it.
T

Baffled-Plan A is hard, but has it's rewards - like a new you. You will learn as you go with the help of MB & the support on these boards<p>K- just out of curiosity why the 6 month time frame? I've heard that many times but not sure why? [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

why the 6 month time frame? I've heard that many times but not sure why?
Because 6 months is usually about as long as most people can cope and remain in a good Plan A while an affair is ongoing.

Baffled the more you enable her to screw around with this guy the harder it will be for her to stop. You need to set the ground rules and mean it. Right now she is telling you what you want to hear. From what you posted your wife does not want a divorce. Use that knowledge to your advantage. She needs to see that you have had enough of this nonsense and that you are serious about moving on without her if she does not take her marriage vows seriously.

Chris:<p>Exactly. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] <p>tomaz:<p>I'm not sure where on the MB website you've come up with this advice...<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>She needs to see that you have had enough of this nonsense and that you are serious about moving on without her if she does not take her marriage vows seriously. <hr></blockquote><p>It'd be great if threats and coercion would actually work. But usually the only time those methods work is when the wayward spouse is really ready to end the affair anyway. And then---an effective Plan A using POJA-style negotiation will usually work equally well. For a spouse who's not willing to end an affair---you need to truly decide whether you're willing to live with the consequences of the threat. If you say "end contact or I'm filing for divorce", and you're really not ready for divorce---then you're in a tough place when your spouse says "No".<p>The Plan A/Plan B techniques have a lot of advantages. First---they stretch over a two year timeframe---most affairs are over within two years of becoming exposed. It also will take a betrayed spouse an average of two years (or so) to recover from a divorce.<p>Plan A changes your marital behaviors for the better---that's good for you regardless of the outcome of the marriage. It also gives your marriage a real chance to recover. Plan B helps to preserve the love you have for your spouse while enduring an affair (by isolating you from the daily reminders). It also allows you time to heal and slowly let go from the marriage. If your Plan B ends up in divorce---you're in a much better place in regards to getting on with your life.<p>Isn't that right, Chris? [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Baffled,
Even when we were separated my H & I spent a lot of time together, or as a family. While separated we went hiking, camping, out to eat, movies, lots of kids' softball games, concerts.... An activity helps. In between separations #5 & 6 we went to Disney World.<p>I would just set my mind at "I'm with the man I love, I will enjoy the time." It didn't always work, my Plan A was 18 months long & there were some very non Plan A moments, lovebusting in particular, that I regret.<p>Another way you can look at it is practicing unconditional love, not expecting a dang thing from your spouse, just putting your love effort out there. One of the things I learned during the time I did that was how very much I was expecting and have expected from people when I do something loving or giving for them. It changed me.<p>I drew from a lot of things, my faith, MADTV--have you ever seen their sketch for a dating service called "Lowered Expectations"? A couple unattractive people looking out over a barbed wire drainage ditch? The theme sings through my head sometimes.<p>It took 2+ years from the beginning of my H's PA to our final reconciliation, now over 2 years ago. I know timelines like that are difficult to think about, but you don't do it all at once.<p>You've done Plan A 2 months, set a goal of another 1-2 weeks, or a month, a day if that's all you can cope with, and plan to re-evaluate at the end of your set time if your goals, desires have changed. If they have not, if you still want your marriage and can continue Plan A another week, month, do so.<p>tomaz You are stating a way of dealing with infidelity, just not one that tends to lead back to loving reconciliation. Lovebusting on the WS "nonsense must stop!" and putting your foot down is an excellent way to stop all progress, piss off the WS, incite rebellion within the WS, and find yourself in the lawyers office as soon as possible.

What ? <p>Where did anyone ever tell you that it was easy? [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I came on a little late to know K's whole story but I know that he plan A'd his wife back from OM after she was pregnant with his (OM's) child, and that he (K) is raising the child. He and his wife are reconciled and reported to be very happy (did I get it right K?) <p>So, you should re-read K's post and follow his advice. <p>I also would like to report that plan A is working for me (4 months) My wife and I were never separated, never had an A. But she was pretty unhappy with how I had been treating her. It is slow progress, but we are falling in love again, and it is GREAT ! ! <p>SS

Thank you all. Your encouragment is so life-giving. And your "gentle corrections". K, my wife read my post last night, and was not too happy about the snooping. So new resolve: no more snooping. There's really no point - she hasn't promised to stay away, so what am I trying to hold her to?<p>I know this is supposed to be hard, and everyone said it's the toughest thing that you'll ever do, but... I honestly didn't know that anything could be this hard or this painful. The thing is, this road is soooooo long. It's not like I can see an end anywhere near in sight.

Baffled:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I know this is supposed to be hard, and everyone said it's the toughest thing that you'll ever do, but... I honestly didn't know that anything could be this hard or this painful. The thing is, this road is soooooo long. It's not like I can see an end anywhere near in sight.<hr></blockquote><p>It is hard. Plan B is worse, tho. And although I haven't gotten to it, I believe that divorce is even worse yet.<p>And if your wife is reading, Baffled---as bad as my pain was in dealing with the affair, my wife is still dealing with much worse pain. She's the one who made these uncharacterstic decisions that have trashed her self-esteem and self-image. Baffled---the sooner your wife can end this affair for REAL, the better her recovery through this will be. The longer that this goes on, the worse she'll feel about herself, once she comes out of the "fog".

So what does she say about your pain? <p>And, what does she say when you ask for help with all your hurting? <p>Why doesn't she stop contact? <p>By the way, we do care. It hurts just reading and giving advice, it's got to be far worse on your end. <p>However, having said that, you still have to do the work, painful or not, if you want to get the reward.<p>AFter 4 months, I am seeing great changes in my wife's attitude. Two days ago she printed out some MB stuff at work and brought it home to read. I asked her what was up? She said, "well you have been trying, I suppose It's about my turn. <p>Note, that this is after 4 months of my plan A with her just saying things like "it hurts too much for me even to discuss it." and "I know you are trying, but I just can't help much now." <p>Come back often, so we can all pump each other up again.<p>SS

BTW, you asked about spending time with W. I have had a hard time getting her to take time to be with me. We were doing things apart much of the time. She can't seem to relax with me if we only have a few hours together. I mean, she likes it, but it didn't seem to help much. <p>So I have started taking us somewhere overnight one or two weekends every 6 weeks or so. That is making a big difference. She is getting excited to go this weekend. We are just going camping (doesn't cost much after you own the equipment.)But she looks foreward to it. I do all the work and really give her "time off". We have 4 children still at home so that is part of it for her, time off with no work. And I get to make deposits big time for a day and a half. <p>We date every week also, I do one week, she does the next. It gives us some variety. And neither one of us gets burnt out. Now that we do the overnighters, the weekly dates at home are getting better, we feel closer, feels more special.

Hope this helps. <p>SS

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is hard. Plan B is worse, tho. <hr></blockquote><p>Really? I thought that plan B was when plan A got too hard - you couldn't take it anymore. What makes plan B harder?<p>SS - <p>She acknowledges my pain, and feels bad that she is causing it, but feels like there is nothing she can do about it - she "can't" end it.

Baffled:<p>Imagine handing your wife a Plan B letter, and walking out the door. You may never live with your wife and kids again...<p>That's the hard part. The shock lasts a couple weeks, and there's no way to adequately prepare for it. You'll eventually find your equilbrium, and deal with the separation. And it does preserve your love for your spouse---it's just very difficult to take that first step.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> You may never live with your wife and kids again... <hr></blockquote><p>When you put it like that, I don't think I could ever do it. I don't think I'm even close to ready for plan B... and I'm not sure I ever will be. To think of never living together as a family again... <img src="graemlins/teary.gif" border="0" alt="[Teary]" /> <p>K: <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Another analogy going around the emotional needs board is "be a thermostat, not a thermometer". <hr></blockquote><p>I'm not sure I get what this means. That I'm supposed to regulate the environment, not just observe it?<p>[ May 22, 2002: Message edited by: Baffled ]</p>

The analogy is to not REACT to your situation, but to ACT in a way that you deem appropriate. (It'd be nice if you could actually regulate your marriage---I guess that's where the analogy breaks down).

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> The analogy is to not REACT to your situation, but to ACT in a way that you deem appropriate. <hr></blockquote><p>K:<p>I get it. How did you get so smart?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How did you get so smart?<hr></blockquote><p>The hard way, unfortunately...<p> [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]