SOW22MM<p>Oh geeze you must have been in a hurry again when you read the "details" of my post like you were when you read New beginnings post. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] <p>My previous comment.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>How dare you judge her knee jerk gut wrenching reactions to her husband’s continued rejection and relationship with you! She is not the extemporary mother you feel she should be? Well, she wants to keep someone with your apparent lack of moral character from being in HER daughter’s life as long as she can at nearly all possible cost. I can totally understand that. You intruded into her life without her permission. She did not intrude into your life. <hr></blockquote><p>Your reply
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Samantha,
To clarify, I have never judged her. I don't care how many men she has. <hr></blockquote><p>I didn't ever say that you were judging her because of how many men she has. I am sure you don't care how many men she has as long as she is unable to get HER husband back from you. I imagine for you the more the merrier. <p>If all you got from the post was that; then you really missed my point. My objection was you coming to this site and causing additional hurt to many people who are working very hard to heal and become whole again.<p>You are looking for people to endorse that this Wife is doing a horrible job and you along with your MM are entitled to care for their child together and as a couple are much better for her. I am sure you can get that kind of endorsement at your regular forum. They do have a section there that titled Children and Affairs. Are there not any wise OW over there able to help you with this dilemma?<p>I think perhaps you are an OW who knows darn well that without his baby daughter in the picture as much as he wants her to be, you are in danger of not holding on to him. After all that is the tie between him and his wife that no one else has.<p>You have been living with this man since April. You believe this is enough time to know him well enough to be sure you will live together until death do you part. Two months isn't squat.<p>This MM has been married once and in a prior relationship to his marriage that resulted in a son being born. Was he married to the mother of his son? Was his unfaithfulness what caused that relationship to end as well? Did he abandon yet another woman for someone else? I mention this because TinyDancer has some excellent points.<p>WAT hello and I'm so sorry for all you have gone threw. These kinds of OP popping in here just resurrect the pain for many, don't they? It seems cruel considering there are many sites where they can get the encouragement they are looking for doesn't it? I guess again it just comes down to character? [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: a blessed Samantha ]</p>

I just want to know......What kind of a church do you go to?!

Ok, I couldn't let this one slip by:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I was gracious enough to allow her - W - to come and see it and the room we set up for her D.
<hr></blockquote><p>I'm sure the BW was just thrilled about being invited over to her Husband's "love shack" to take a peek into what you've "done with the place". <p>Perhaps you should invite her to sleep over on the couch those nights she works late. I'm sure she'd love to watch you and her husband flutter off to your bedroom while you play mommy and daddy with her daughter.<p>Wouldn't it just be easier to spit on her?<p>I have never ever in my life seen or heard of anything so insensitive, heartless and disgusting in my life.<p>If I was MM's wife I'd be heading to Canada/Mexico/or wherever to get as far away from you as possible. <p>And he's a sorry wretch for allowing you to "be involved" knowing it's tearing her to pieces ... AGAIN! If he had any compassion for the mother of his children he wouldn't subject her to your vile "offerings".<p>Just my opinion, God I wish MM's wife could come here so I can hug her. Poor woman.<p>Did anyone ask BW why she isn't paying for baby sitter... Could it be that now that she's a "single mom" she needs the money to pay the electric or gas bill? Maybe her divorce attorney is quite expensive. Maybe if her husband was home working on his marriage ... she wouldn't need an attorney or a baby sitter.<p>Congratulations, you have successfully broken a woman's heart, home and life. I hope you sit back on your deck after you have eaten, swam and laughed with her husband, stretch your legs and think to yourself ... "God I'm good." I wonder if you'll have that smug look on your face on judgement day.<p>I wonder.<p>Z. [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img]

*****WARNING: FLAME IN PROGRESS*****<p>Ya know, it amazes me that this woman can come here, say things like this:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by SOW22MM:
<strong>new beginning,
See if I was a catty woman I might suggest you take some of that free time you have on your hands while your H is out w/ his OW to take a math class. </strong><hr></blockquote><p>... and somehow, *I* am insensitive for suggesting that perhaps she should go elsewhere to get her questions answered.<p>As I pointed out to her, I am not in a marriage with infidelity right now, but damn, had I been and she wrote this - HOW CRUEL WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN? <p>BS's -- how would you feel to have an OW say this to you? <p>------> Hey EVERYONE, see if this situation works for you: <p>RAPE SURVIVOR SITE
Gangbanger comes on, names himself, "Rapist" and asks for help to ease the pain for a victim he helped to rape. <p>Think he'd get a bunch of supportive helpful responses from the people in pain there?<p>Me neither.

~*~Sheryl~*~<p>ROFLMAO to that analogy. Well said.<p> [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img]
Z.

Whew! Sheryl, I think I smell burnt hair....
Well made point...... [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img]

zebrababy<p>DITTO!<p>Now Sheryl, you are being insensitive my dear. [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] What if a rapist was lurking and saw that, you wouldn't want to hurt his feelings now would you? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I'm sorry I just couldn't resist. [img]images/icons/cool.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 05, 2002: Message edited by: a blessed Samantha ]</p>

SOW22MM,
Since you intend to marry this man, you will continue to be involved with his wife at some level. You do seem to want the eventual family dynamics to be calmer. I believe that you are sincere in that wish. <p>What do you think of the advice people have given about your backing off and letting all inteactions about the baby be between MM and his W? Yes, you are still involved, she knows it's your home, but you are WAY in the background. What about letting the negotiations be strictly between him and her? What about your not being at any of the court proceedings unless the court requests it? What if you let her tell you what it will take for her to accept the baby being with her H in your home? <p>Do you care enough about your future with MM and the security (emotional) of his little girl and his wife to step way into the background for awhile. Love them enough to take yourself out of the picture as far as negotiations are concerned. Maybe that will make it easier for MMW. <p>Tell me what you think. It would be challenging for you because you are a strong-willed woman. Can you do it - for their sakes? Do you really want to help? Truly? Enough to let them handle it between themselves? <p>BTW, by emotional unhealthy, I was referring to the fallout from all these complex relationships of mom, dad, children, other men, other women, other children, etc. Do you think the kids will ever understand the family dynamic proven to produce the most secure kids - that is, one permanent faithful mom, one permanent faithful dad, and the kids? <p>Are you willing to humble yourself and put yourself fourth in this transition? Mom, dad, and daughter and then yourself? If you were willing to do that, then no one would doubt that you are what you describe - a compassionate woman. <p>What do you think, SOW22MM? Can you do it?<p>Wishing peace for your family,
Estes

mthrrhbard,<p>It must be the same church that my WDIL attended with her OM. You know, the one in which they sat together all the while telling friends in emails that "God is SO good!" That church.<p>Estes

SOW22MM,<p>First of all, I didnt mean you wanted to take the baby as in "custody". In BS's eyes, Im sure WH having the baby in his NEW home is TAKING THE BABY. The baby that is theirs, not yours.<p>She may have told you shes only doing this because she doesnt want to make things easy for WH. This may be true, but understand that there may be soooo much more to this than what shes telling you. There is alot of pain there. You need to give her the time she needs to heal and move on. Her decisions will change in time Im sure. But like I said, this is way to soon. The baby is still so young. If what she wants is for WH to watch the baby at her house, then he should. Why should she make it easier for him? Look what the TWO OF YOU have done to her life and the children as well. YES, what you have done has and will continue to effect the childrens lives as well. Even if you do claim to be this wonderful person. Werent so wonderful when you took her H. Im sure she doesnt want you to watch her baby too. Why should she? You need to stay out of their business. This is their baby, not yours. He is STILL not your man. You are still the OW. If you were such a wonderful woman you would let them figure this whole mess out themselves. Without you in the picture.<p>Remember, the baby is still very young. Would you want your baby at your WH's and OW's house? Really? Dont try to play like "this is in the baby's best intrest". The baby's best intrest is to be with both parents in her own home. Since you have choosen to stick yourself in someone elses M, that is now just about impossible.<p>So, if you can find an ounce of thoughtfulness towards BS, listen to her. Give her what she wants. She deserves it. You two dont deserve anything to go your way. Give her time. She has alot of pain, she needs time. She needs her baby in her home. Not yours.<p>And another thing, the baby may be very comfortable with her sister. Obviously the Mother feels comfortable with letting her watch the baby. Who are you to say what is best for someone elses baby? Remember, your just the OW.<p>I too have an older D. And eventhough OW and WH are both adults, I would prefer my D to watch my baby. And not just to spite WH .

P I,<p>I like that idea...<p>The MM can sleep over the BS's house while she's at work every night watching the baby.<p>yes,that's is exactly how OW can make it easier on the BS. <p>And since OW is not worried about her "new man" cheating on her... this shouldn't bother her one bit.<p>Yes, I like that senario. betcha OW doesn't.<p>Z. [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]

Is it not a concept of MB to not make disrespectful judgments, or is that just a concept reserved for a spouse or SO?.As far as I have seen this woman is merely seeking answers as we all are. Inlight of some of the replies she's been given I for one commend her for maintaining her calm approach.If it's such a touchy subject to trigger bad feelings I'd think the title enough would be a warning to stay away...except we as a society seem like the moth drawn to the flame. I'm starting to feel like the defender of OW, I can tell you I am not...I just like to see that people are treated fairly. I can tell you this if my OW wanted to have a rational discussion as I've seen SOW attempt to have I for one would be more than happy to.

CHURCH - BAPTIST
The church we go to is truly unique. I am actually a member of a different church but began attending here in late March. Yes, MM and I attend "together". No, we have not stood up and announced to the congregation that we are living in sin. I can not wait for us to become married so we can join this church. As I have said I live in Ga - deep south and bible belt. The make up of this church is racially mixed almost 50/50. We have a white senior pastor and a black FEMALE assistant pastor - very uplifting to see races of all kind hand in hand worshipping God. It is also refreshing to go to a church that people enjoy attending. For example, last Sunday I saw a girl come by that was in uniform. She works at one of the grocery store's deli and came by on her break. Everyone is made welcome. Also there is a lack of pretention (is that a word???) people go there to hear the word, not carry on as if they were on a Paris or London catwalk fashion show. I mentioned the racial make up because my children are bi-racial. My D goes to camp w/ them on 6/18. His nephew is too young to attend. The question has not arisen, but if it does my MM and I have decided we will be honest w/ the church about our home life. As soon as his D is final we will be married quietly in our home by a mutual friend. fs

straycat,
I am remorseful that our EMR caused her pain. I am building a marriage - between him and me. We just haven't said I do yet. I am smart enough to recognize that this MB site has good info etc. on maintaining a relationship. I take from it and apply to my own relationship. <p>new beginning,
Congrats on your newfound happiness in marriage # 2. I really enjoyed your analogy also - very witty.

Docsgirl<p>Say that again. I agree with what you had to say.<p>People, flaming isn't going to change anything and it is NOT constructive.<p>Wether you agree with it or not, doesn't matter to fs.<p>She is working on a relationship. She didn't hold a gun to his head and make him leave. For all you know his wife was a real ***** and made him extremely unhappy. Maybe he spoke to his W about this several times and she wouldn't hear him. His W could have just dug in her heels and say I'm not changing, screw you buddy, if you don't like it to bad.<p>Show some respect. She is not YOUR ow. She is a woman working on a relationship with a soon to be divorced man.<p>PLEASE spend your time here supporting those that need it. Support doesn't mean you have to agree, it means if you have nothing constructive to say to one poster, say something constructive to another. Do you remember how you felt on arrival day? YOU wanted answers and support.

P I,
I don't doubt the baby is comfortable w/ the sister. However, the sister has made it plain she resents keeping the baby all the time. Also she is supposed to go to Texas and visit her dad for summer.<p>I would be alright w/ him keeping the baby over there till he went to court. However, it is not feasible for him to be there every night etc. That takes away from our home. Besides, he is the father. He will win this issue in court - no doubt, esp when the judge hears she is violating another court order in re visitation of 14 year old to keep her here and enslave her as a baysitter. <p>For the next 3 weeks I will stay out of it. I plan at this point to not even talk to her when she calls. Let he cry on someone else's shoulder and complain elsewhere. fs

docsggirl and patient,
Thankyou for your kindness. It is most appreciated. fs

The fact that this woman is illiciting such vitrol from BS's who are strangers should be all the answer she needs on how to handle it. Stay out of his divorce, it is none of you business right now. When he is legally divorced then you can play wife to him, until then back off and give his stbx w some breathing room away from you.

You are way over invested in MM’s divorce and child custody/care issues. The use of the word “we” is very indicative of this. He should be handling every aspect of this. It is not your place. Find it interesting that his wife says that she is tired of making it easy for him… well looks like he picks women who do this for him. Sounds like you’ve taken his life and are doing all the work from talking to the attorney, fighting his divorce/child custody issues, and providing childcare. I know you think you are being helpful and all. But in the end it is muddying the lines of propriety. <p>I wonder why you are starting a day care? Is this so that you can take care of his child? Is this a life long dream of yours or one that came up to make it easier for him to leave his wife?<p>----RE: “For the WS that have had to deal w/ OW in re the children and have been successful at it - what helped put the pain of betrayal behind you in an effort to focus on the best interest of the children? We will all have to deal w/ one another for years to come - what's the harm in starting off on the right foot?”<p>Let me put things into perspective here. MM’s wife does not have to deal with you (OW) in any way shape or form. She does not have to cooperate with anything you want. You are not the parent of her daughter. You have no legal or moral rights in these issues.<p>If you wanted to just get along, then you might have started my not having an affair with her husband. But things being what they are, your only choice at this time is to take a back seat in the divorce, child custody and child rearing issues. They are not your concern. You are not the mother of this child.<p>MM’s wife will come to terms with the nuclear bomb that has hit her life in her own time. Neither you nor he can force her to ‘get on with it’. Just as you get to do whatever you want, so does she. It takes 2-5 years to recover from an affair. She needs time.<p>She is the mother, she has the right to pick whatever child care situation she feels is right for her child. I can understand her not wanting her child in a situation that teaches her child that marriage is not important and that gross disrespect of her mother is OK. In the best situation, she and MM will find a mutually acceptable childcare arrangement and one that is not so volatile. Yours is not the only ‘good’ childcare available. You apparently have no idea how humiliating and hurtful it would be for this woman to have to drop off and pick up her child from your residence on a daily basis. You have her husband and will have her child some portion of the time. Why don’t you just leave her alone?<p>
-----You say that living with MM with GREAT and that your children like him around. So they have gained something from this situation. MM’s daughter on the other hand has lost something very important… an intact, happy family. As she grows up and comes to realize that transpired, why she is drug from one house to another, why she has little stability in her life, she may very well grow to dislike you for your part in all of this. I am sure that even at this young age she picks up on her mother’s discomfort at the situation at with you. She will more then likely side with her mother. Believe me I know from experience the hell a child can cause in a marriage when they feel they have divided loyalties. It’s not worth it. You have presented this thing as a fight over child related issues between MM/you and his wife. Since you have no legal grounds for inclusion in this situation, you will only cause more problems. <p>You want MM’s wife to move on and take the child’s best interests in mind. I suggest that you do the same thing. Why are you fighting so hard for this child? She is not yours. For the sake of this poor child, please let her parents figure this out without your interference.<p>I highly recommend that you a counselor who deals with ‘blended families’. They will help you figure out you place in all of this. It is imperative for the health you’re his child and your marriage that you learn your place as a step parent in this child’s life.<p>So my points? You over involvement in MM’s divorce and his child are going to back fire one day. They are causing you problems now, it will only get worse.

"Let me put things into perspective here. MM&#8217;s wife does not have to deal with you (OW) in any way shape or form. She does not have to cooperate with anything you want. You are not the parent of her daughter. You have no legal or moral rights in these issues."<p>
Hmmmm... She does live with the man. If the courts say he gets joint custody, the mom does have to face the fact the baby will be in the same home with the OW. She is not claiming to be a parent. She came on here asking for help, maybe she is overinvolved, but at least she cares. Would you rather her be the type to run off with the MM, and he never see's his child, or pays child support? It seems that is the case a lot these days. <p>Those of you condemning and judging her for being overinvolved or the decisions she has made, take a good long look in the mirror. "Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" huh??