As far as "he knows everything", does he know that after he moved in, you were making arrangements with your other MM to come over and have a tryst with you while he was at work? Does he know that you only settled for him, that you love your other MM forever and that according to you, the sex with other MM is the best you have ever had? Does he know that the time he snuck in your home while you were bathing (after a break up)and was holding your daughter that it scared you. Does he really know you?

Findingmywayback<p>You are confusing statements of fact with disrespectful judgments.<p>I am not condemning her. My take on this is that there is probably no way that MM’s marriage can ever recover from this affair, so it is in everyone’s best interest that either this new relationship works and work well or that they split quickly. Sure it would be better if everyone can get along great but it’s highly unlikely.<p>What I said comes from personal experience. I’m sure that you do not know my story, I am dealing with step children. I was not making a disrespectful judgment with this statement. I was stating legal fact. MM’s wife does not have to deal with OW, she does not ever have to talk to OW, nor does she have to do anything OW wants her to do.<p>I wish it were a fact that my H’s ex-wife had to deal with me and do what I wanted her to do. Maybe then she’d stop her ‘alternative lifestyle’ and start taking care of her children. Maybe then I’d get a break from this and her children would be so much better off. She walked out of their life several years ago but resurfaces from time to time to stir the pot and get the kids to express undying loyalty to her. Then she dumps two, very confused and angry children on my doorstep and we don’t hear from her for months on end again. My H has custody of his children. I do not have custody but I take care of them most of the time since he travels 30%-50% of the time. The fact is that legally he and his ex-wife have the say, I do not. The fact is that his ex-wife has exposed the kids to drug use, inappropriate sexual behavior and on and one. We have tried to get the courts and the law involved. They will not do anything because she is their mother and they have not caught her in the act.<p>SOW22MM asked for advice/input from people with experience in these matters. I have quite a bit of it. I’ve shared it here. I’m sorry if you feel that the reality of the situation is harsh. I did not make it harsh, life is just like that sometimes. I’ve also observed many of the people around me going through the same thing. What I have learned is that a stepparent has no real rights of any kind. We can try to love the child and provide what we can, but in the end, the bio-parents have all the legal rights. And in the end, the children often have divided loyalties and will side with the bio-parent in almost all cases. This is a reality that stepparents have to learn to live with.<p>“Maybe she is overinvolved, but at least she cares.” It’s good that she cares. The point others and I are saying is that her over involvement will more then likely blow up in her face. Again it is not a disrespectful judgment, it is a hard reality that many of us have had to face. I have been over involved in my stepchildren’s care out of necessity. I am their primary care giver. I feel a moral obligation and love for them. But they and their mother do not often see it that way. My life has been a roller coaster from hell for the last 2 years because of this.<p>Yes the baby will be in the same house as the OW. But the baby’s care is her father’s responsibility, not OW’s. That plain simple fact. Yes the baby may be in the same house with the OW but the mother does not ever need to talk to the OW. I did not way that was right or wrong. It is simply a fact.<p>” Would you rather her be the type to run off with the MM, and he never sees his child, or pays child support? It seems that is the case a lot these days.” Men have done this since the beginning of time. It is not new to today’s society.
I am not condemning her for over involvement. If she will pay head to what is being said about this, it will do a great deal to help her build a good solid relationship with MM and his child.
“"Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone" huh??” It’s a shame that many people take anything that is not said with dripping, sticky sweet platitudes as an attack. If SOW22MM thinks I and the other are wrong, I suggest that she pass this by some counselors and read up on issues dealing with step parenting. She will find that it can be a minefield that she is about to enter. We are only warning her of were some of the bombs are planted.<p>As for her over involvement in MM’s divorce. I read a very wise thing once.. “A woman should never do anything for a male over 5 years of age that he can do for himself.” If problems ever arise between MM and SOW22MM you can bet that he is going to throw her involvement in the ending of his marriage and divorce in her face. It is imperative for a healthy relationship that she step back, let him be a man a run his own life. Men generally grow to have contempt for anyone who does not let them (even force them) to live their own life their own way.
Life is seldom politically correct. It does not make disrespectful judgments but simply imposes rules that bite us in the backside when we do not pay heed.<p>These are just MHO’s. You do not have to like or accept them. They are what I have learned from my life. She asked, I took my time to pass it on.

Married couples keep tons of secrets from each other all the time, and don't really know each other or understand each other. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

I don't doubt the baby is comfortable w/ the sister. However, the sister has made it plain she resents keeping the baby all the time. Also she is supposed to go to Texas and visit her dad for summer.<p>Whether the sister resents it or not, it is none of your business, honestly.<p>However, it is not feasible for him to be there every night etc. That takes away from our home. Besides, he is the father. <p>Yes, it is feasible specifically because he is the father. You don't have a home that is is responsible for. Your "home" with him is secondary to his responsibility to his child and you, again honestly, have no place to demand or ask that he sacrifice anything for you at this time. He IS still married and you come after his marriage and his children.<p>How selfish of you to suggest that he not do something that may be in the best interest of the child simply because it takes away from your "home."<p>I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you really wanted what was best for the child. I am beginning to think you really want what is best for you.<p>Would you be OK if what was best of the child (and your H) if he got back together with his wife? I doubt it.<p>Perhaps it may be time to find a more appropriate forum.<p>This really is not a general question about infidelity and more one of proper boundaries in divorce/divorcing.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by new_beginning:
<strong>*****WARNING: FLAME IN PROGRESS*****<p>Ya know, it amazes me that this woman can come here, say things like this:<p> <p>... and somehow, *I* am insensitive for suggesting that perhaps she should go elsewhere to get her questions answered.<p>As I pointed out to her, I am not in a marriage with infidelity right now, but damn, had I been and she wrote this - HOW CRUEL WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN? <p>BS's -- how would you feel to have an OW say this to you? <p>------> Hey EVERYONE, see if this situation works for you: <p>RAPE SURVIVOR SITE
Gangbanger comes on, names himself, "Rapist" and asks for help to ease the pain for a victim he helped to rape. <p>Think he'd get a bunch of supportive helpful responses from the people in pain there?<p>Me neither.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe it's time to let this go. I didn't go back and re-read all of the responses, but she didn't come here with the comments that you are denoting to now. It was after she was insulted. You say it is not okay to be insensitive. For all, it goes BOTH ways. Please get off soap boxes when you say OW is being hurtful. We are all hurt and no one deserves to be insulted. If you insult, expect more in kind.

zorweb, you love to listen to yourself talk don't ya? I can read your sanctimonious bull anymore... it's makin' me want to hurl!

This thread is out of control. Not only are people being vindictive and insulting but some are being downright childish.<p>I plan to ignore this thread and any others that are posted on this same topic. Some people don't want help they want justification for their wrongs. I can't and won't give that and so I shall refrain from reading these types of posts and/or replying to them.

[img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] Wow. This is all way too intense.

FS,<p>I think you need to go back and read some of your posts. You'll see where I got my information. <p>I don't think it matters how many children they have together. Fact remains, you just don't have any rights to how she raises HER AND HER H's children, however many. Your opinions or suggestions will never matter to his W. <p>I am sure you have all the hope in the world that when(if) they do get D'd, that you and he will be best for each other. You have to think positive. You've sure invested alot in your R with him.<p>I am just telling you that his W most definitely has all kinds of negative feelings towards you & him which may never change, regardless of who she is seeing or he is. <p>I think you should back off completely. That includes financially. I think it is wrong for her H to even allow you to support him or his children financially, now or even after you marry. Something he should have thought about before stepping back into another R knowing there are kids involved.<p>You're a good OW to do that. Smart...I don't know.
I have a best friend in your same situation. NOT GOOD. She learned the hard way. She knows now. <p>Your best bet is to just stay out of it. I just don't understand why you feel the need to be in the middle of their issues. It amazes me that you feel so strongly that you have any right to be. It amazes me that he is allowing you to be....maybe not [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] . <p>Unless she is declared an unfit mother and you adopt her D, I don't think their is any law that says the OW, OM, or step parent(if not adopted) has any rights to how the M couple or ex-M couple handles their children, CS, or custody issues. You choose to support him financially. Noone makes you do it. That still does not give you any rights as far as their children, however many, are raised or cared for outside your home(in mother's care, unless she's declared by law as and unfit---HIS RESPONSIBILITY) <p>FS, you just don't have the right to be involved in any of his or her decisions regarding their children, however many there are, whether they are still M'd or not. Until you DO marry him, you should just stay out of it. Simple as that. [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] BROKEN RECORD <p>I know you feel so strongly about his D and your M to him in the future. I know that you love him and feel he loves you and that you will be good together. I also know that you feel that because of this that you should BOTH be involved in EVERYTHING together as a H and W should, hell, you've been through so much. BUT, you are not his W yet. Maybe you should hold off on your strong opinions and emotions regarding their children until you are M'd to him. <p>Even if(when) you do get M'd, the decisions regarding his C and hers remains with them solely. You may have your opinions and as his new wife you can/should express them TO HIM, but unless you are listed on that custody/visitation agreement, The sole decisions on all details are up to them and the courts.<p>Goodluck.<p>Just my thoughts, again.
InTheClouds

ummm... suggestion: Can we take all this energy and server space, and refocus it to help the folks that need help with their marriages? <p>There's some wonderfully wise people on this thread getting all upset about this one thread, when it could probably be ignored.... <p>just a suggestion....

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I am simply suggesting that we either ignore OW posts or answer them in the shortest, kindest way possible... and, as you did, STRONGLY suggest that this forum is NOT for them... same way they do us on TOW... <p>Veterans who have been here the longest have the ability to not feed into the anger and hurt and model to newbies. <hr></blockquote><p>Thanks Faith1... that's what I was talkin' 'bout

My last post here, you will be happy to know, but please favor me and read it anyhow:<p>I have a bazillion posts on MB - too many, many might say. I don't just jump into arguments like these; I participate in many, many wonderful, helpful, loving threads. I help people, and occasionally get irked and flame people, like this time. I'm human. Sue me.<p>Our SOW22 here, if nothing else, is taking it all pretty much in stride. Grace under fire, sorta. Good job on that.<p>Here's my suggestion, for what it's worth:<p>You showed up with OW and MM in your handle. Not a good sign.<p>You showed up to MARRIAGE BUILDERS.<p>Those two facts were gonna **fer sure** send some alarm bells ringing for most folks.<p>I don't think you're some innocent child who had no idea you'd stir up a fire - duh! - of COURSE you knew.<p>That said, let me tell you about another site I visit, one for second wives and stepmothers. Had you gone there with your concerns with SO, you would have been greeted with open arms and ideas on how to proceed. You *might* have been told to back off, but it would have been a WAAAAAAAY different story than here. It's because "here" is MARRIAGE BUILDERS. How much clearer can that be?<p>There has also been discussion about this being a cliquish BS board. Well, I've been on both sides, and have proven, as have MANY others who were WS's, that we are welcomed here, as long as we're working on a marriage. It is, after all, Marriage Builders. <p>SOW22 - Simply put, this is not the best place to get helpful advice if you are a single woman with a married man, no matter what the circumstances. I think you knew that all along.<p>I wish you peace...<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: new_beginning ]</p>

Good morning folks.<p>May I just take this opportunity to say that I am personally ashamed. The great majority of you are behaving like children. <p>Take a look at your own lives. Not one of you here are in a second marriage? Are you all so perfect that you can decide how wrong a person is if you don't even know her?<p>I don't allow my children to be mean to anyone. It doesn't matter what a person has done in their life, if they are trying to make their life better - is that not good enough to post here?<p>We allow WS here all the time. Some of them get pummeled, some not so. But all of them are afforded a bit of courtesy. Thank you to those of you who behaved properly. <p>Shall we face reality for just one second? Her situation is part of life. Doesn't matter if we like it or not. Every single flippin day. This happens.<p>We may not want it to happen in our own lives, and some of us are dealing with it, but that is just the way it is. We can change our own behavior, but we cannot control others. <p>What is the most important part of this situation? I'll tell you, it's the children.<p>It's all about the kids.<p>Have you ever had a biological parent that does not work well with the step parent? I have.<p>It makes life hell on the child. Only the child.<p>The child gets hurt, over and over again.<p>If SOW22 is going to make her best attempt for this child then by all means who are we to say she can't.<p>I can almost guarentee that at one point in the childs life she will be in a position to chose one family over the other. It might be for a family party or a summer living arrangement. Wouldn't it be easier for the child if all parties involved could work together? From my own personal experience I can answer with a resounding yes.<p>Your indignant behavior is misapplied to this family. <p>I am very disapointed.<p>E

Here mshermi and a few others,<p>Want something to do?<p>Read and reply<p>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=37&t=018269

SOW22MM,
I'd like to address 3 of your concerns.<p>1) My H & I were in the process of divorce before reconciling. The divorce agreement was going to stipulate that when either of us had the children in custody, there would be no non-familial opposite sex overnight visitors. Neither of us were going to give the other the opportunity of living with someone without marriage. My lawyer said most judges here would approve that stipulation. Yes, I read that it is financially better for you to live with the MM...but doing something immoral for monetary gain isn't a very good reason. In the conservative state I live in, the BS can sue the OP for Alienation of Affection, so what you have done is not simply immoral, but illegal here.<p>2) I have daughters now 14 & 16. The older one has babysat very often for her sister from age 11. At fifteen, once she had her restricted driver's license, we left them for a weekend, but of course they had phone numbers--home, work, cell--of 2 of my friends and the next door neighbor. My 14 year old would love a regular babysitting/nanny job. This summer she is working as our housekeeper (cleaning, tidying, taking care of the 4 pets), and doing great work, happy with the money. So, I suppose it depends on the teenager, but a sister and/or 14 year old can be very responsible and the MMW is not wrong for trying it out. I think a sibling, half-sibling relationship is as important as a relationship with a parent's lover & the dad who abandoned the family. <p>3) A Christian rebuke regarding someone who is in, or pursuing, sin is not the same as throwing a stone. Yes many of us fall off the Path, but old mistakes repented for do not exclude a Christian from pointing out sin. Who can recognize straying better than someone who has done so? Good people can do bad things. Bad people can do good things.<p>You have made some very unwise choices, now seem to be flummoxed that things aren't working out to your satisfaction, that the MMW doesn't want to work with you. That's what happens with bad choices, the more you make, the less workable your life.<p>You are making it clear that the only thing I can think of that would make this situation a little better--that you & the MM not living together until the divorce, until your marriage--is something you don't want to change.<p>Only the MMW can change her behavior, you can't. The best thing to do in the situation you have created is to behave with politeness and dignity if/when you do deal with her.<p>My H & I stopped our divorce, stopped our other relationships and have come back together in love and partnership. So, I have the opinion that Separated is Married and Divorcing is still Married,  not at all the same as Divorced.<p>Good luck to you.

Hello SOW22MM,<p>You asked us to suggest ways to ease the transition for your MM's W. Many sincere suggestions have been given centering on backing off and letting MM deal with his W and daughter with you taking only a minor role. <p>My suggestions in the earlier post were quite sincere. I asked you a number of questions about what you think about the idea of removing yourself from the negotiations. They were not rhetorical questions. I had hoped to start a dialog in response to the real reason for your post - what you asked us, how to help MMW.<p>Would you care to share with those of us who suggested your agreeing to play a minor role how you feel about that idea? After rereading the posts that responded directly to your question, the suggestion that you let MM and MMW deal with this without you actively participating seems to be the most common idea from BS and WS alike. What do you think about the idea of reducing your participation? Can you tell us?<p>With complete sincerity and respect, that option seems to be the one that will enable you to reach your stated goal of helping the MMW and the little girl.<p>Estes<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Estes49 ]</p>

mshermi,
Yes, yes, yes to all. As I said he knows it all -NO SECRETS. Try it some time, it is very liberating. I am flattered that you seem to have invested so much time in following my story. As such perhaps you could enlighten your MB friends on the struggles I faced about whether to disclose the truth about EMR when she bagan asking questions. Or about the hesitancy I felt entering into this arrangement. Or perhaps you can share the updates I have posted in which I myself am surprised at how well our arrangement is going. At how I am amazed that I do still love this man. And you can inform them about how even when I was broke up w/ him I still allowed him to visit w/ my daughter because I put her interests first. I knew she loved him and that he was good to and for her. And even when the new guy I was seeing demanded I put a stop to it that I never would. And he is not even her father. However, if her real father was to come over tonight he'd be welcome in our home and welcome to see his daughter.<p>As far as the tyrst you mentioned - never happened. In fact, I have not spoken to that other man since our living here. Recall how I posted that he sent a friend to my new home asking me to get in touch, yet I had no desire to do so. <p>zorweb,
Personally, I do not feel you are condemming me. I appreciate the time you took to share your story. Sounds like you are doing an admirable job w/ your stepchildren. One day they will thank you for it. Perhaps she will too. I realize MM's daughter's care is his responsibility. However, I imagine our situation will be like that in your home in which much of her care will fall on my shoulders. LOL - about the 5-year-old comment. Yes, I tend to spoil MM. I would venture to say I do less for his 5-year-old nephew that is in our care than I do for him. However, he does return the favor on occassion. For example, Tues a.m. he turned off the alarm and greeted the parents of the 2 children that come early and the mother who gets off at 7 a.m. He then brought me breakfast in bed - sort of anyway - 2 greasy, and BURNT ham and egg sandwiches and some Pecan Sandies (my favorite) cookies. It was the thought and extra sleep that counted.<p>Mr. Bunky,
It is my business as it is all of society's business. Any child that is in a potentially dangerous situation is EVERYONE's business. A 14-year-old's mind is not as mature as an adults nor are her coping skills. She is highly resentful of the fact that her mother is making her stay home to care for this child. Hello??? Has anyone noticed I posted this D is supposed to be in Texas engaging in a Court-ordered visit w/ her father?<p>And, yes he, MM, does have a responcibility to our home. We entered into this home TOGETHER. WE signed the lease. We sat down and talked about expectations etc. prior to our moving in and came up w/ an informal contract. Personally, I would not mind one bit if he chose to go over there and stay each night and keep the baby till we went to court. No fear on my part. In fact, each time he sees her she reaffirms in his mind that he did make the right choice. Trust me, I never say a bad word about her, NEVER. I am ultra understanding. In fact, I often side w/ her. Place that side by side w/ a woman who talks friendly to me on phone then talks ill behind my back etc. I understand why she does it. However, all he sees is an irrationale, angry woman.<p>CMiranda,
I guess I shouldn't have spouted off the way I did. I thoroughly enjoyed new beginning's wit. I am not the least bit offended.<p>intheclouds - you wrote:<p>I think you should back off completely. That includes financially. I think it is wrong for her H to even allow you to support him or his children financially, now or even after you marry. Something he should have thought about before stepping back into another R knowing there are kids involved.<p>You apparently misunderstood one of my posts. I am in no way supporting him per say. I did mention that last week his W called us when we were out of town to see about his dad and stated her water had been shut off. This was on a Mon or Tues. MM stated he would not send her any more money because he had just given her the CS on Friday. The W paid her car payment instead of water bill - demonstrates her priorities huh? Now, if I was really nasty woman, I could have called DFCS and explained to a caseworker how concerned we were that the D is being left alone w/ a 14-year-old resentful sister during graveyard hours and how the mother has called crying about having no water - yet her car note was paid. I could have further stated that we would be more than happy to babysit esp considering DFCS has licensed our home to care for children, has already conducted a home study, and that the father is off every night. Now, we're all adults here - what do you think would have happened??? Plus the old babysitter could have commented how she was willing to care for the baby but mom refused to pay her. Hmmm.....<p>Instead, I went and Western Unioned her the money out of my own account. I do not support MM. We share expenses. When he gets paid, he pays her w/ a money order and brings me the rest. I pool our money to pay our household expenses, his car payment, the atty, etc.<p>new beginning,
Yes, I recognize that my handle potentially would offend. When I chose it a while back that was my situation and I wanted to be up front about it. Prior to posting this time I tried to resign up using my femalesargeant handle. However, the thing popped up and stated someone else was already logged w/ the same email address. I was too lazy to go somewhere and create a new email address for the sole purpose of changing my handle here. O.k. so quit holding out on me. What's the site you mentioned?<p>I can't find the post, but whoever was wondeing why I opened daycare in home. Originally I was going to stay at home and just collect the money from job. However, I got bored. I decided to work at a daycare. Ad was in the paper and the hours were right. Yes, I'll be the first to admit it was a strategic move as well. I figured if she questioned my ability to care for child later, I would have accumulated tons of references. However, the daycare was not run properly - 1 gallon of milk to feed the entire facility etc. So, I decided to do this at home. It also gave me the opportunity to have a representative from state come certify our home. Yes, that too was a strategic move - I figured it would look good in court also.<p>Lor, Congrats on your reconcilliation w/ your H. I too have a 14-year-old son. He also is responsible. In fact, he has a job at a local grocery and volunteers at nursing home. And, yes he has babysat for me too. However, the 14-year-old in question does not want to babysit and wishes to go to Texas and visit w/ her father as the courts have so ordered. fs<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: SOW22MM ]</p>

Estes,
I apologize if I overlooked your question. I try to respond directly to each person that took the time to offer a suggestion. As I stated yes I am involved w/ D etc. A good friend of mine is handling it. I do not want to leave the impression w/ you all that she is aware to the extent of my involvement. I only interact w/ her when she initiates it. If she calls to speak to MM I call him to the phone. However, on occassion she calls and wantes to talk to just me. MM doesn't really care for me to talk to her. He thinks she will just upset me. She doesn't. For future reference I will tell her that she needs to communicate solely to MM. I also will advise MM to take a more active role in his D proceedings. <p>As an after thought someone posted how do I think W will feel having to drop off and pick up D from our house. That will not be necessary as he has offered to provide all transportation. 3 fs

Mr. Bunky,
It is my business as it is all of society's business. Any child that is in a potentially dangerous situation is EVERYONE's business. A 14-year-old's mind is not as mature as an adults nor our her coping skills. She is highly resentful of the fact that her mother is making her stay home to care for this child. Hello??? Has anyone noticed I posted this D is supposed to be in Texas engaging in a Court-ordered visit w/ her father?<p>Sorry, still does not make it everyone's business. Who determines the situation is dangerous? Certainly not me, certainly not you. If it is deemed dangerous, it is still not "everyone's" responsibility or right to determine the proper course of action. It is no more your business what happens than it is mine -- until we are either asked by the court or by either of the parents.<p>RE: 14 year olds and baby-sitting -- come on, that is a pretty weak arguement. Millions of children are watched by an older sibling. It is hardly an adolescent epedemic of child rearing. Additionally, unless it is illegal for a 14 yr old to watch their sibling, it is none of your business.<p>Do you try to butt your way into the homes of every family in your neighbor that uses an older child for supervision? Why not? Perhaps you realize it is none of your business. Same thing here.<p>The fact that she is resentful is none of your business. She is not your child. Perhaps she is spoiled and her mother is teaching her responsibility. It certainly is not your place to be concerned about the resentment a child may feel over the actions of their parents. Again, do you go into your neighbor's homes and correct their parenting situations when their children feel resentment? I certainly hope not.<p>Lastly, her going to Texas also is none of your business.<p>Perhaps you see a reoccuring theme? This is none of your business.<p>And, yes he, MM, does have a responcibility to our home. We entered into this home TOGETHER. <p>Nope. Are you married? Is he still married? You don't have a "home." You are shacking up with a married man. He has NO responsibility to you. He could leave you today and probably would not be responsible for anything more than house payment and utilities. His responsibility is still to his wife, legally and morally, until his divorce is final.<p>I was raised in a Baptist church in Tennessee so I don't know if things are different in your state but my Baptist upbringing certainly taught that your responsibility is with your family. You are not (yet) his family.<p>I am ultra understanding. <p>Then back off and stay out of it. Prove your understanding be realizing it is none of your business until you are legally part of his life. Do the selfless thing and stay out of it.<p>Nothing about his family situation is any of your business yet. The most respectful thing you could do would be to stay out of it until you are married to him and at least share in the custody.

There is no justification in taking another woman's husband, ever. No matter how much you sugar coat this relationship that is what you have done to this woman. In the process everyone gets hurt, including you. When the bomb hit at my house MIL told the OW in my case: You cannot find happiness based on other people's suffering. OW's response: Well, we love each other, as if that makes it acceptable then. MIL's response: That doesn't make it right. <p>I'm not trying to flame you, as a betrayed wife that is just how I feel. The world is big, filled with so many other people who are single, there isn't a reason to break up a home to make a life with a person who is already taken [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>You say you and MM were wrong and selfish, and are trying to rectify the situation. You feel that you are being fair to the W, and that you are gracious in allowing her to look inside your home for provisions you have made for HER D. Although your intent may not be to hurt her, don't you think that made her situation even more hurtful to her? If I were in her shoes I wouldn't feel like you are trying to rectify the situation, but rather that you are just trying to make it easier on yourselves and maybe soothe your own conscience by saying well we did all we could - she's the one who won't work with us. As many have already pointed out she should only have to deal with him, not you. However, you are firmly taking the reins here. Maybe she feels that if you were indeed trying to rectify the situation you would back off and give them an actual chance of trying to make a home for their little one TOGETHER. Maybe in a little corner of her heart she is still holding out hope that they can heal their marriage. <p>Just because she is telling you that it isn't you she is angry at, don't you think her actions and words are showing you otherwise? She may be trying hard to conquer her BW feelings, but it is so difficult to do. I feel that when she asked you if you were going to steal her D like you stole her H she told you exactly how she really feels inside. Her allowing her H access to their child only at her house is also a telling sign. She doesn't want you involved in their child's life. <p>You have a problem with him going to her home every night because it takes time from your home, and even though you didn't quite say relationship I felt it was out there, just not spoken outloud. But didn't you take time from their family, their homelife, and their relationship? Maybe she wants you to have an inkling of what she has felt too. <p>Put yourself in her shoes, how do you think she feels when he does things with you and your kids? She married him for a reason, even if you claim it wasn't love - but how can you really tell what is/was in her heart? Your kids sound like wonderful children but it still must hurt her to realize your kids are the ones who are enjoying the "family" life that her children were entitled to have with him because they are married. A family life that they may very well have had if you hadn't come along when you did. I know it really hurts me to hear my little one cry because she misses her daddy and he is out doing the family thing with OW's family instead. We also laughed, had fun, did things together including the cookouts. Most likely they did too and she misses it. I can see how this would hurt her. <p>He may tell you that their relationship was dead, but they obviously had some kind of relationship or she wouldn't have gotten pregnant. It took the both of them to get her pregnant. I found it interesting that he married her 2 months after they met, and that he was ready to leave her for you 2 months after meeting you. <p>You compare her having an OM in the picture and him being involved with their D the same as D being involved with you. To a BW there really is a HUGE difference. The OM did not intrude in their marriage, but you did. <p>I'm sorry if I sound harsh, it's not my intent. I understand how she feels though because I know how much I don't want the OW involved with my children in any way. I know that the OW in my situation would not hurt my children physically, but emotionally it is an entirely different thing as the OW was a close friend. When the bomb hit my older D had just turned 15 and my little D was 3. It has almost been 2 years, and although he still sees the OW, he is still at home because I refuse to co-parent with the OW.
[img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img]<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Betrayed But Not Broken ]</p>