For a quick recap, WW filed for DV couple of days ago. Could be final real quick due to our laws here in KY.<p>After session with JHC, she suggested a letter outlining my continuing commitment, impportant info that I knew, and really digging down and stressing how much pain the Dv would bring.<p>So...Here it is. Critics needed.....<p>
Txxxx,<p>I want you to really know how much I love you. I want you to see how much I am committed to making our marriage work. We can do it! There are many roads in life. Some may look bleak, but often there is sunshine and happiness at the end of the ones that look the worst. There are others that are easy, but there is darkness and despair at the end. I desire to travel with you down life’s roads, and for each of us to be by each others sides. I want to be the one that holds your hand, when you need one on life’s journeys.<p>I want a new relationship with you. One that is stronger than ever. We can create a relationship that everyone would envy. One that ensures both of us what we want and desire to obtain in life. I know that we can fulfill each other’s needs, better than anyone else. I know you fulfill mine. I really want to fulfill yours. I have learned a lot these past weeks. I honestly believe that I can be everything that you desire from the man in your life. I once was, and can be again. As a matter of fact, with what I have learned through all of this, I can even be better!<p>We have many other options in life than to just give up. I am not a quitter. In the 14 years I have been with you, I know that you are not one either. You are strong in what you believe, and can make things happen with it. We can make things happen with our marriage, also. It is too precious to give up on it. It deserves that chance.<p>Txxxx, because of my love for you, I have information that I think you should know. Because it appears that our relationship is on the brink of being over, I feel I must tell you. You will probably say to yourself that I am just saying this, but what I am about to tell you is the truth.<p>If you have any desire whatsoever to be with a certain someone if we are divorced, you need to know that he was not who you thought. If you will recall, I had gained a lot of information about him before I ever confronted you with it. You were not the only “other” in his life when you thought you were. There were 2 others. There was others that he tried with. One of them is someone that you and I both know very well, and the two of you just never put it together. However, after all of this came out, and of course being the way I am, having to know everything, I stumbled across it. It absolutely FLOORED me! So, please consider carefully anything that you intend to do in the future if I am not a part of your life. I care too much for you to let you get caught up in a web of lies and deceit. I have learned from experience how much pain that is, and I definitely do not want you to endure that.<p>Txxxx, our marriage has affected many lives. Probably many more that we think about on a day to day basis. A divorce between us will also.<p>I cannot endure the pain that I would have to deal with by being a friend. I simply cannot do that. That would constantly remind me of the family outings we had, trips we took, and the pain would be great. The pain that I have suffered from your affair does not even come close to the extreme pain that I am going to endure by ending this marriage. I think you will suffer from that also. I have recently seen people that you would never imagine have tears well up in their eyes, from the thought of our relationship ending. These are people that do not even know the true facts. They have compared it to a death in the family. There is not one single person on my side that has not been hurt by the prospect of our relationship ending. When we married and became as “one”, we in essence brought 2 different families together and made them as one also. Both we, and they, deserve the greatest fighting chance that we could give our marriage.<p>Like I said, losing the friendships, the activities that all of us shared, and the overall bond that was created when your family took me in more as their son, than as their son-in-law, would be the most painful experience for me to bear. Even much more than I have already. You know as well as I that my family took you in as a daughter more than a daughter-in-law. My Mother always referred to you as her “new” daughter. All of my 6 sisters told everyone that you were their “sister”. Since our separation a few weeks ago, not a one of them has not been hurt by our situation. I can guarantee that they are mourning the potential loss of you from their lives, more than anything else. Nothing else matters to them.<p>I think back to the 2 years that Daddy was alive while we were married. You know that you were the “apple of his eye”. He adored you more than anything. His friends often would tell me that he was fascinated with you. You made him proud everytime he got the chance to look at someone and point at you and say “Look….that’s my daughter-in-law over there.” I would laugh when he always made the remark to other people that he must have raised me well, because I went out into the world and brought to him the best of the best. You were his only daughter-in-law, since I was his only son, and he was so very proud of both you and I. He was overwhelmed by your smile, your charm, your personality, and the overall way you made him feel. He thought just as much of you as he did my sisters. But they accepted that fact, and understood.<p>Although there is not a day goes by that I do not wish he were still here with me, I am somewhat grateful that he is not suffering from the thought of you not being in his life anymore. Sometimes I truly think he loved you more than I.<p>Txxxx, there is still hope for us. We once had a relationship and marriage that millions of people would envy. There is no reason to think that we cannot have that again. Things may change, but all we have to do is to turn them in the right direction. One thing is for certain – We both now know what it takes to make a marriage work, and what will destroy one. The price that we have paid for that education is steep. We owe it to ourselves and to each other, to get our “moneys” worth. And we owe that to others that look to us as well.<p>I want you in my life, Txxxx. I want to grow old with you. But not apart – but together.<p>
You are always in my heart, mind, and soul.<p>
OK.....how 'bout it?<p>
hcii<p>[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: hcii ]</p>

Very heartfelt and I think hits a lot of good points. If indeed the A was over, I'd think this should really, really hit home with her. If the A is still on in some form (like JHC thought it might), then it may be like shining a flashlight in the middle of a thick fog. But I guess you have nothing to really lose here... I don't see any LB'ing in it... (Well, hopefully no "fatal" stuff - that stuff about OM is important to say sometime - this might be as good as any!)<p>As was provided elsewhere for advice, I think you really do need to follow up with a form of Plan B at some point here. I don't know if it'll be soon enough before the Dv is final... too bad you can't slow it down much. In any case, holding an air of confidence and grace will do you wonders... she needs to see a strong place to return.<p>[ June 10, 2002: Message edited by: J.R. ]</p>

^^ Bumping shamelesly for a new day ^^<p>hcii

I think your letter is fine. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm glad you talked with Jennifer and got a plan.<p>Will you be writing a PLan B letter as well?<p>One suggestion ... see what you think....<p>add something like this (but make it fit YOU) in there somewhere. <p>"W, I love you for who you are!! You are beautiful, smart, fun, my best friend.... I love being around you, and love having you in my life!!! I truly want the chance to love you the way you deserve to be loved."<p>something like that? I guess... I don't see in your letter WHY you love her... WS's seem to be screaming to us that we don't/didn't accept them for who they are. I believe that's one thing they get from the OP - acceptance and approval.<p>what do you think?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> something like that? I guess... I don't see in your letter WHY you love her... WS's seem to be screaming to us that we don't/didn't accept them for who they are. I believe that's one thing they get from the OP - acceptance and approval. <hr></blockquote><p>How 'bout this Faith1 for the "lead-in"?<p>Txxxx,<p>
I want you to really know how much I love you. You are so beautiful, smart, fun-loving, romantic, and most important, my best friend. Although I probably have failed to let you know, your personality always could brighten my day. I love being around you, and love having you in my life. There never was a time in our relationship that I didn&#8217;t want you in my life. Since the day we met, and after just a few times that we spent together 14 years ago, I knew that YOU were the one. Nothing has changed that. Nothing ever will. I can only hope and pray that you can see how much I desire for you to be a part of my life. Not because I am afraid of being alone. I desire for you to be a part of my life because I love you for who you are, and how you make me feel. It&#8217;s that simple to me. There is nothing complicated about it. I want to have the chance to make you feel about me the same way I do about you, because, believe me, it is the most satisfying and wonderful feeling on earth. I know that I can make you feel loved, the way that YOU would want to be loved and cherished.
<p>
Comments? Suggestions?<p>
hcii

I like it. When did you plan to give it to her? If you have time, put the letter away, and read it again tomorrow, with fresh eyes and mind, and try to read from her perspective. <p>Letters like these (that could either possibly go down in history, OR in the garbage can [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] ) are best if reviewed and revised over a period of a few days/weeks.

I think the letter is beautiful. I like the lead in you added as well.
The only thing I'm not sure about is the "How about it?" at the end. It seems a little casual. I know you're looking for feedback but maybe there's another way to express it given the seriousness of the rest of the letter.
I think the letter is very romantic. I think that the info about OM is handled delicately.

Faith1 said:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I like it. When did you plan to give it to her? If you have time, put the letter away, and read it again tomorrow, with fresh eyes and mind, and try to read from her perspective. <hr></blockquote><p>Faith1, <p>I rewrote it as you saw, and printed it out, placed it in an envelope and sealed it. Now for the UH-OH.....<p>I had it in the place I knew she would find it tomorrow, should she stop by in the mornings after I am gone as usual. I intended to rethink about it, and would rewrite it should I feel the need to later. But....I left to go to the store for a while, and...lo and behold! She had been here!. The letter was gone. So I hope it works. Just my luck....But then again....I sort of look at it as being my "first" true feelings, so it is really "me" saying it. I hope all goes well.<p>espoir wrote:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The only thing I'm not sure about is the "How about it?" at the end. It seems a little casual. I know you're looking for feedback but maybe there's another way to express it given the seriousness of the rest of the letter.
I think the letter is very romantic. I think that the info about OM is handled delicately <hr></blockquote><p>espoir,<p>The "how about it" was for comments from the board. It is not in the letter!<p>Thanks for the positive response on the handling of the OM situation. That one was a real "doozie" to think of how to word it without being too arrogant-sounding and childish at the same time....<p>HCII

[img]images/icons/shocked.gif" border="0[/img] It always happens like that huh? LOL.... [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>Well, keep us posted when/if you hear something!

Faith1 said:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Well, keep us posted when/if you hear something! <hr></blockquote><p>Well, how about if I FEEL something?<p>She hasn't tried to contact me. Even though I am in Plan B, I was sort of hoping she would after the letter, and after knowing that I had received the "formal" complaint. I wouldn't have answered the phone, though, and would have stuck to Plan B exactly.<p>After receiving the summons and complaint and reading them, and speaking with my attorney, I now know it is time to change directions. This is NOT the woman I married. And to be honest, I don't want to be married to THIS woman.<p>Self-preservation mode has arrived, I am sad to say. She chose the road,I have no choice but to go down it, and in all aspects I now know that I have to make the best of it for me. Still got my sense of morals, honor, and dignity. I will not throw them away. My gut says this is going to get a little nasty (maybe not too bad).<p>I have asked my attorney to do everything that he can legally do to keep us apart. Of course, depending on certain situations, she has the right to be there sometimes. Even though I still love her, I will not be there when she is in the "hot seat" so to speak, because I know that even though she is DV'ing me, she will draw comfort and strength from me if I am there also. So....If I don't have to be, I won't. She needs to be "alone" in this situation, and handle it on her own.<p>Sometimes there are just certain things that one can't overlook, because it shows real truth. I can deal with the infidelity, the fogginess, the "not-in-love-with-you" stuff. But I cannot deal with her arrogance. And that is starting to surface in her.<p>For example (please no flames....I know it may be trivial, but I think that sometimes peoples true colors show at times with the little things they do), we are by no means rich, but not poverty either. Probably low-mid middle class. There are things of value in our marriage.<p>Here is what is eating at me.....pretty durned bad I might add....been "festering" for a week or so now since she brought it up. Somebody calm me down of they can......<p>The home here was purchased from her side of the family. She has made it a point to tell me that it is going to go back that way. Since it came from her side, she wants it, and says deserves it. Get this....MY 88 year old grandmother (religiously conservative) is a master quiltmaker. Ever since I can remember, she always had every grandchild a hand-made quilt by her for us for Christmas. Even after we married. Well....being old-fashioned, she always "tagged" them to the "woman of the house". OK.....so now.....even though I had been avoiding "settlement" discussions the past few weeks that she tried to bring them up, she would always say something. One of the first things she mentioned was not the home....not the $40,000 Chevy, but she let me know that she was taking "her" quilts. They were given to her, she said. To me that was arrogant. Very arrogant. Not that I want to fight over them, but I would have looked at it differently if the shoe was on the other foot. But....I guess I was raised that way.<p><OFF SOAPBOX><p>But....I know, I know, some will agree, and some will disagree, but the hardest thing to see was that she wants her maiden name back. I feel like she wants to "erase" the past. I know she has every right to, but for some reason that hurt deep.<p><VENT MODE> OFF<p>Sorry.....had to let all of that fly.....<p>
hcii

I'm sorry that your WW is beign so arrogant and selfish but that is the nature of beign a WS deep in the 'fog'. <p>It hurts when somebody you love stabbs you in the back with an A and then twists the knife when s/he wants to screw you in divorce court. But if it's any consolation, history has shown that a WS like your W will regret what she did and poison the relationship(s) she is in or will be in the future. Not only that but it is highly likely that she too will be a victim of infidelity by a lover in the future because she will not have learned what makes a relationship thrive.<p>It may not seem like it right now but the future is on your side not hers.

hcii,
Hang on tight... this is a different kind of roller coaster. <p>I'm so sorry... it's very difficult, and you have every right to be feeling what you are feeling. For the most part, I think you sound like you have a grip on this - her attitude, her selfishness, and you are holding your head high. SHe is deep in fog. My XH said very selfish and arrogant things concerning the D and the settlement. [img]images/icons/mad.gif" border="0[/img] Part of that was manipulation from the OW. <p>Let your attorney do all the dirty work. Stick to Plan B, and IF contact is necessary, be polite and respectful.<p>As far as the quilts go, would you want to negotiate to divide them? Or say you get to choose - say 5 of them? YOUR grandmother gave them to both of you. Sounds like she is just trying to keep control of something.<p>Have you started working on taking over your own bills, or is she still paying all the bills?<p>You're doing fine. Hang in there... I understand your frustration.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> TooMuchCoffeeMan : I'm sorry that your WW is beign so arrogant and selfish but that is the nature of beign a WS deep in the 'fog'. <hr></blockquote><p>TMCM,<p>Thanks for the kind reply.<p>I have just received information that the WW has told her co-workers that I gave her a letter. Don't know if she told the contents to them or not, but it tells me that it must have made some kind of impression on her to tell about it. She's not the type to talk about private things in the workplace.<p>Also, a mutual co-worker of my sister and the WW, told my sister that the WW was in her own words "visably miserable". Said she is NOTHING like herself the past several days. More like just "zombied". Absolutely no happy-go-lucky personality in her. Several others agreed. Not at all like her, was still herself even after D-Day on 04/27. They say she has just been this way for the past several days.<p>'Reckon ol' man reality is lurking? She is getting NO EN's from me due to Plan B, and the fact she filed. Possibly OM not cooperating either? I can only guess what may be happening here. Maybe she thought if she DV'ed me OM would do same, and she found out otherwise? Or...having second thoughts about the DV, since I told her ( [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img] bluffed) that when the day arrived that I was "served" was the day of reckoning and no return? Oh....How I wish I were psychic.....I see some dynamics taking place here. But still not hoping for anything. Mainly because my LB$ is really, really low.<p>I am finally at the point that I know that whichever way it goes, I will land on my feet. Of course I PREFER one way, but will survive the other.<p>I guess time, counseling, family, friends, and especially this forum has held me together. But I know it's not over yet, and I still may have some pretty dreary days. But...they are fewer and farther between.....<p>
hcii

Faith1 quoted:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> I'm so sorry... it's very difficult, and you have every right to be feeling what you are feeling. For the most part, I think you sound like you have a grip on this - her attitude, her selfishness, and you are holding your head high. SHe is deep in fog. My XH said very selfish and arrogant things concerning the D and the settlement. <hr></blockquote><p>Yep....Legs are nearly as "wobbly" as they have been. I can't help now but keep asking myself do I really want this W? No...not this one, I answer. If that makes any sense. I want the old W with a new M.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Have you started working on taking over your own bills, or is she still paying all the bills? <hr></blockquote><p>Yep...took control of all joint finances when she filed. I'm still here at home, she left, so I am taking care of the place. She has stopped contributing anything.<p>Something that actually humors me in this serious situation, is the way she did things. Listen to this that happened a couple of weeks ago. Don't remember exactly how it went, but you'll get the picture.<p>MONDAY -- Leaves joint checkbook
TUESDAY -- Leaves joint credit cards
WEDNESDAY -- Leaves keys to Tahoe
THURSDAY -- Leaves something else...
FRIDAY -- Leaves a bill or two that was due<p>I mean...geez...What was that about? Why not leave it all on the same day? She stretched that rubber band a looooooonnnnnng way.<p>Oh and something else comical here in KY that I read today.....<p>KY is a "no-fault" DV state. That is the ONLY grounds for DV. "Fault" plays no part in the DV, disposition of property, etc., (BUT...can be if maintenance is asked for, and then ONLY against the spouse seeking maintenance)But now....get this....Even though she has sworn that our marriage is "irretrievably broken", I can deny that it is "irretrievably broken". But....then that becomes "irreconcilable differences", which then makes the marriage "irretrievably broken" !!!!!! [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] [img]images/icons/confused.gif" border="0[/img] <p>That is in ACTUAL case law here...Go Figure...<p>hcii

I looked up KY law also. I found it very confusing.<p>Anyway... I thought I read somewhere that if he says he wants D and I say I don't, he will be required to visit a marriage counselor before divorce finalized? Or did I dream that?<p>Do you have kids? Because I thought I read that where there were children, the wife was not allowed to change her name.<p>[ June 12, 2002: Message edited by: Bgentle ]</p>

Hey hcii I just remembered something that a poster a month or two ago said. She was the WW who divorced her H after she had her A and later on married OM. Her xH found someone else and is now engaged to his new woman. She said she made a terrible mistake with her A and marrying OM and now considers herself the poster girl of the 'be careful what you wish for you just might get it' club. It seems from your last update that your WW is becoming another poster girl of said club.

Bgentle wrote:<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyway... I thought I read somewhere that if he says he wants D and I say I don't, he will be required to visit a marriage counselor before divorce finalized? Or did I dream that?<p>Do you have kids? Because I thought I read that where there were children, the wife was not allowed to change her name. <hr></blockquote><p>My interpretation, and as a disclaimer I am not offering legal advice because I am no attorney, is that in a "contested" DV in KY one spouse can "deny" that the M is "irretrievably broken". But....from what I gather is the court will then decide whether or not to require counseling. So...in essence, up to the judge.<p>No, WW and I have no children. I can contest, but history has it since there are no children, getting the court to recommend counseling, even though a spouse has the right to request it, is usually a moot point. Extremely rare for the court to order it, when no children involved.<p>However, when there are children, I think there is a 60 day "cooling off" period involved from the day of filing.<p>hcii

Well....It's off to the attorney tomorrow (Friday) for our strategizing. Wish this wasn't happening, but...hey...gotta play the hand I'm dealt.<p>Self-preservation mode is ready for take-off tomorrow. Even though I still love her, and my LB$ is getting so low, I know that I have to make the best of it, and try to cut my losses as best as I can.<p>Ya know....this is probably the biggest LB'er she could do to me. Something in my gut, and the info that I posted earlier about her co-workers saying she had become visibly miserable the past few days, and especially after reading the letter, tells me that she really doesn't want this.<p>This has been hashed out here before, and I am no psychologist, but I think her "OCD" character is kicking up. No...I am not diagnosing her as OCD, but she sure has the tendencies. I honestly sometimes believe that she would rather knowingly make an unwise decision and follow it to the very end, and live with the misery that she knows will follow.<p>I mean....the inside of our vehicles are immaculate (Everything else is too). So immaculate that it wouldn't bother me one iota to drop food on the floor mat and pick it up and eat it. But she will wrap her high-heel in a paper towel because she thinks it will get dirty.<p>We have a rug on a rug to keep that rug clean, and then another rug to keep it clean. I have witnessed her getting a scratch on the sole of her shoe that you would actuallly have to lie on your stomach on the floor to see it, but because SHE knows it's there, the shoe is no longer any good.<p>And that always seems to "kick-up" her being impatient. When she wanted it done, she wanted it done NOW! And it better be the right way! And we ain't gonna stop 'til it's done.<p>She's doing the same here with the DV. Even her S said a couple of weeks ago that she really believed that WW wanted to come home, after she had a few conversations with her. But once she gets focused on something, it seems as though "come hell or high water" she's gonna do it.<p>I think my WW is in something a little thicker than fog. I have heard all the lectures from her about me not expressing enough love for her, not showing her enough, etc. But....why can't she see that here I am, willing to accept the most cruel act she could do to me, forgive her for it, be willing to face all of the sarcastic remarks that I know other men will say (Look at that stupid SOB...after what she's done - still wants her), defend her to this day no matter what her actions, and would still take a bullet for her if I had to.<p>And then she thinks I don't love HER enough? After experiencing this ordeal for the first time in my life, and hopefully the last, I don't know about the rest of you but I feel that I am offering the most supreme sacrifice that any spouse could offer the other spouse.<p>I think today, my Taker just beat the s**t out of my GIver.<p>And he will probably be there with me tomorrow in my meeting with my attorney....<p>
hcii

hcii:<p>"I think my WW is in something a little thicker than fog."<p>Yeah! Pea Soup! ...WITH REAL PEAS!

"I have heard all the lectures from her about me not expressing enough love for her, not showing her enough, etc. But....why can't she see that here I am, willing to accept the most cruel act she could do to me, forgive her for it, be willing to face all of the sarcastic remarks that I know other men will say (Look at that stupid SOB...after what she's done - still wants her), defend her to this day no matter what her actions, and would still take a bullet for her if I had to."<p>That's because that's what WSs do. She's transfering her guilt to you. Punishing YOU so she won't have to face the consequences of her actions. Sadly, if she ever wakes up, it may be far too late.<p>"And then she thinks I don't love HER enough? After experiencing this ordeal for the first time in my life, and hopefully the last, I don't know about the rest of you but I feel that I am offering the most supreme sacrifice that any spouse could offer the other spouse."<p>hcii, you DO know about the rest of us! We all feel that way, or we wouldn't be here (but then, we wouldn't learn anything from the ordeal either!)<p>Good luck tomorrow. PLAY HARDBALL.

Well..met with my attorney today. I received the DV papers Tuesday, and have 20 days to file a response.<p>Luck would have it that my attorney, after us speaking with each other, is also fighting his divorce, and wanting to reconcile. Fate, maybe? He has been separated for close to a year. Must know the tricks.<p>Anyway, here is our strategy. He is going to respond that I DO NOT believe the marriage is irretrievably broken, and reserve the right to ask for statutory counseling. Buys me a few weeks. We decided not to ask for immediate counseling due to the "explosive" nature of my situation, and could be a big LB'er.<p>I also asked him about changing the locks. He said to do it. There is now civil litigation going on between me and WW, and since I am living here and she isn't, should be no problem. If WW goes ballistic, tell her to see her attorney. He will then contact mine, and we will try to acommodate her with me here, IF she can find a valid reason to enter the house. Since she had an A, and her family knew, and I worked out of town a bit....He could argue that the OM could have a key. (I doubt it, though). But....that is a realistic possibility.<p>He also agrees that she needs to see what it is like to be COMPLETELY cut out of the marriage. Letting her come and go when I am not here is not achieving that. Said that he has had MC'ing, and was told the same.<p>But....Man this is the most wierd experience I have ever had. 2 emotions at the same time. While I am trying to achieve possibly putting my M back together, at the same time I also have to protect me. I guess that is the state of "Tough Love". It is tough to sit here and figure out how to get what I can out of this should it come to DV, but yet do it without feeling like I am hurting her. In other words, I have to squeeze every penny I can, yet still separate that feeling from the feeling of reconciliation.<p>Also, she could motion for the DV to be granted, and the property disposed later at a future date. Attorney says that since we have marital debts also, we can object to that. Another way to buy time.<p>So...I guess life has taken on a new personality now.<p>Was told after my meeting that one of her closest co-workers has told her that she thinks that she is going too fast with DV. Told her that with all that has happened, and it just being 6 or 7 weeks since, that her opinion was that emotions were too hot and high to be making life-altering decisions. WW did not respond, and I take that as hope. WW normally would have said that her mind was made up. But...she didn't.<p>So....I will be hanging in, hanging out, and hanging on. But I am aware that somewhere in this process, I may decide to end it. But not right now.....<p>HCII